“Beneficiary Bashing”

October 3rd, 2012 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Stuff report:

Leah and Sarah Gilbert are on the domestic purposes benefit and want to stand against what they see as unfairness surrounding benefits and “beneficiary bashing”.

The Hamilton sisters have got behind Friday’s National Day of Action against welfare reforms and, have organised an event for people to have their say.

“Beneficiaries are being stereotyped as bludgers, parasites, lazy, selfish, that we all neglect our kids and would rather spend money on drugs and alcohol. I don’t fit into that. My kids are healthy and happy and go to school every day with full lunch boxes. That’s not me, and that’s not okay,’’ Sarah said.

And that’s great. And I don’t know anyone who thinks everyone on a benefit is a parasite, a bludger, lazy or selfish. I certainly don’t. I think there are some people on benefits who are using it as a lifestyle choice – but they are certainly not the majority.

But it is not acceptable to ignore the problems caused by the minority, just because some people think it is a slight on them.

Take for example rape and domestic violence. We have far far too much domestic violence in NZ, and it sickens me the number of men who bash women.

But when we talk about domestic violence in NZ, I as a man don’t feel I am being labelled a criminal, a thug, a violent person. I am confident enough to know it is a reference to the minority who are the problem.

Frankly labeling as beneficiary bashing is just an attempt to avoid the actual issues.

I note in the comments to the article, that the Gilberts have an interesting political agenda. Extracts:

Welfare money all ends up in the hands of private businesses – I am merely a conduit for it to end up in the hands of my landlord, the supermarket, the child’s school, etc.

Goodness. First I didn’t know her school was a private business. But secondly, so what? We all spend all our money eventually. That doesn’t mean it grows on trees.

Employers are the ultimate gatekeepers of employment – I look for work, but my health and the job climate puts me at the bottom of the lists with my history DESPITE MY EFFORTS.

And if you are studying to gain qualifications and/or applying for jobs – then that’s great. From everything in the article, they’re doing what you should do on welfare – managing costs, studying, applying for jobs. That’s all the Govt is requiring – there is no requirement to get a job or lose your benefit – just to be available for work. I don’t regard that as beneficiary bashing.

If full-time salaries were split into part-time jobs, the government would recieve more tax revenue and opportunities for employment would be increased.

No they wouldn’t. I hope the degree is not in accounting or economics. Two people earning $20,000 pay much less tax than one person earning $40,000.

People are envious because the minimum wage does not provide a livable wage.

You’re having trouble getting a job, and you want to make it even harder to get one by putting up the minimum wage?

Also:

I never said I don’t like the amount I get, in fact I redistribute excess to a children’s charity and invest in a scholarship fund to improve my son’s opportunities.

And that’s great. Good to have an example of a beneficiary making ends meet, and a bit leftover. But why does the article also say you have sometimes gone hungry to feed your kids?

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65 Responses to ““Beneficiary Bashing””

  1. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    Are we just in the business of shooting the messenger?

    As laudable as your own sense of balance and fair play may be David, we all know that this thread will soon descend into a series of tired diatribes about ‘bludgers’ and ‘inter-generational welfare-dependency’. So nothing new really. A cynic might consider this a bit of a dog-whistle. What about ‘bludgers’ at the top of the tree who take political donations so they can ‘redistribute’ their wealth? what about the seedy side to teh DOt-COm fiasco,, and how that money-trail is leaving a trail of political embarrassment in its wake?

    Evidently, there are the rich morally-compromised and there are the poor ones, all thinking what they think, and bolstering their own agendas because it’s about the money. But it appears that the rich ones seem immune to the laudable searching gaze of balance and fair play. IM(H)O.

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  2. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    Methinks another stage managed performance. The choreography reeks of Labour Party influence.

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  3. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    What these Parasitic bludgers fail to realise is that there are plenty of people out there working their arses off 40+ hours a week for $600 who also have children. They don’t get free University courses, free healthcare, free food vouchers and all the taxpayer funded giveaways these two career layabouts get.
    The world doesn’t owe you a living just because you got knocked up!

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  4. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    A huge part of the problem is the break down (and acceptane of same by so called progressives) of the traditional family.

    What proportion of these people are married?

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  5. ephemera (557 comments) says:

    I like how you say you don’t think beneficaries are parasites with one breath, and then lay into a beneficiary with the other.

    Woe to any unemployed person who dares speak an opinion near DPF.

    [DPF: How have I laid into her. I have praised her, yet disagreed with her political views. Are you saying I can not criticise someone's political views because they are on a benefit?]

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  6. graham (2,335 comments) says:

    I think DPF’s comments hit the nail on the head.

    Just because someone is on the benefit, does NOT mean they are a parasite, a bludger, lazy or selfish. Before I met my wife, she was in a very well-paid career with around 20 staff reporting to her. She then got pregnant (yes, to her husband at the time), and her husband left her. She went on to the DPB as a solo mother, pregnant and with no family here in NZ to support her. Even while pregnant, she was doing temp work – including working on a factory floor – a far cry from her previous highly paid career. After her child was born, she started to work as a volunteer for church organisations. She made sure her child was enrolled at the local doctor and in the local playgroup.

    There was one major difference between my wife at that time and these two sisters, however – she didn’t moan and groan and bitch and complain about the unfairness of it all.

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  7. scrubone (3,099 comments) says:

    I like how you say you don’t think beneficaries are parasites with one breath, and then lay into a beneficiary with the other.

    And I like how you claim to have read the post, but have missed the point.

    DPF never said he doesn’t think “beneficaries” are parasites. He said some are and some aren’t.

    That’s an objectivly true statement.

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  8. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    The indignant self-righteousness of these two parasites seems to say- ‘We have a right to be on the benefit as we feed our children well’.
    Then they throw in that they are both studying at University so obviously are on a higher intellectual plane than us “Beneficiary Bashers”..
    Does this smug attitude remind you of anyone?? (Who may have up until recently posted here daily in a blazing drug haze)

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  9. Bob R (1,375 comments) says:

    ***I don’t fit into that. My kids are healthy and happy and go to school every day with full lunch boxes. That’s not me, and that’s not okay,’’ Sarah said.***

    So blame John Campbell for focussing on some no-hoper parents in South Auckland and the Child Poverty Action Group. They are the ones bleating about low IQ parents who are mentally incapable of budgeting for their children.

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  10. ephemera (557 comments) says:

    [DPF: How have I laid into her. I have praised her, yet disagreed with her political views. Are you saying I can not criticise someone's political views because they are on a benefit?]

    No, you’re hedging yourself, so that you feel shielded from any criticism of your intent. It’s pretty transparent.

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  11. Bob R (1,375 comments) says:

    @ ephemera,

    Don’t you agree that Leah & Sarah Gilbert should be blaming John Campbell, Susan St John & the Child Poverty Action Group? Aren’t they largely responsible for the impression that beneficiary parents are incapable of feeding their children?

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  12. Chris2 (766 comments) says:

    A good test of a beneficiary’s genuine commitment to wanting employment is to ask them what type of volunteer work they are undertaking. If the answer is “none” then you have your answer.

    There are countless organisations in every town and city in the country that are desperate for volunteers. Whether it’s helping deliver for “meals on wheels”, exercising dogs for the local SPCA, putting in a few hours manning the local “Op shop”, well they could all do with an extra pair of helping hands.

    And the amazing thing is that some volunteers eventually get offered a paid position, so just helping out lends itself to work opportunities, quite apart from the volunteering making one feels good about oneself.

    And even if volunteer work does not lead to that organisation being able to hire you, well just being able to list all your volunteer work on your CV will certainly improve your appeal to a potential employer. If I had a candidate who was unemployed but had genuine volunteer experience on their CV I would reward that type of commitment.

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  13. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    This reminds me of those two women who last year came out wailing about removal of some study benefit and how poor they were – and then when Bennet released their welfare figures we all saw that they actually werent telling the truth.

    I suspect some underlying cause here that probably has nothing to do with reality – but more to do with politics.

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  14. emmess (1,428 comments) says:

    What are the most useless fisheries?

    Benny Fisheries

    Ooooh, I’m sorry did I just beat the crao out of a dole bludger?

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  15. Return To Sender (14 comments) says:

    They look suspiciously like NZ’s favourite twins… the Ingham sisters http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071015191215AAwoFdB

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  16. beautox (422 comments) says:

    Doesn’t she realize that she too can be an employer! Just needs to start her own business, then she can employ people. There’s no barrier to entry – anyone can start a business.

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  17. MH (757 comments) says:

    The conduit sisters. Any mention of their men folk,helping out with the kids,paying that extra for times when the mum;s (our) money runs a bit short, or how much their parents on both sides also come to their aid,or are they another stand alone dysfunctional family asking for the state to provide. Have we the media that can sympathetically follow them for a whole month,or will our attention span demand blood before that. They just don’t like being stereotyped,so why the advertising? Promoting an acceptable lifestyle (in their eyes and mores) is what annoys me. It is still bludging compared to others who made genuine sacrifices including assistance from within their caring families to get ahead without the aid of the state.More like a drain than a conduit.

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  18. Muzza M (291 comments) says:

    This is what gives me the shits about New Zealanders now days. A constant sense of entitlement to other peoples money without taking any personal responsibility for the predicament they are in. I wish someone would just tell them to fuck off.

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  19. BlairM (2,339 comments) says:

    If you can save money on a benefit, or give away money to charity on a benefit, then your benefit is too high. I don’t see the ability to have cash left over as a good thing. It’s a disgrace that New Zealand pays so much money to beneficiaries with children, when working people are struggling on what is often less money – and that is after tax!

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  20. wtfunz (133 comments) says:

    @BlairM
    And therein lies the problem.
    These two admit the dole/benefit/DPB is better than working and getting the minimum wage. WTF!!!!
    The welfare system has spawned this result and it applies to a lot of people on the dole, not all. Anyone can see the Global Financial Crisis has lead to some genuine unemployment.
    There is one solution. Work for the Dole. This will make those genuinely looking for work feel like they are achieving something whilst getting those too lazy to work off their lazy arses. I suspect these two might be in the latter catagory but at least they’ll have “a job” at last.
    @ Chris2 – a great test. My monies on zero charity hours.

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  21. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    “National Day of Action?”

    How about organising a “National Day of Gratitude” for being in a country where if you don’t work, you still get paid something anyway, courtesy of all the people who DO manage to fit a bit of gainful employment into their busy schedules?

    Bash them. Fucking ungrateful parasites.

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  22. Steve (North Shore) (4,563 comments) says:

    I wonder if these sisters can paint a roof? Did anyone ask? :)

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  23. Leah (5 comments) says:

    Actually no. However I did post this:

    “I’m a DPB mum, I’m returning to study, and I’m also looking for part time work.

    I have a variety of IT skills, can touch type, and have reasonable written and oral communication skills. I have a large group of skills acquired from my experience as a mother. I’m unable to drive, but I do live within walking distance of Hamilton’s CBD. And now, I can add event planning and management, and the ability to deal with a large variety of people within the community to my skill set. Ideally, I would like a position which will allow me to complete my degree, and give me experience within the IT sector, as this is the field I’m studying in. Oh, and I’m proactive, intelligent, hard working, and very very capable in stressful situations. I’d be an asset to any team. Serious offers only, as I AM using this forum to try and improve my situation, and the situation of my children.”

    So if anyone here has information about a position, let me know. You can contact me via wbahamilton@gmail.com. And yes, this is a genuine attempt at trying another avenue to find work. As for roof painting? I’ve never painted a roof, so if your roof is in the Hamilton area, and you don’t mind someone with no experience, we can discuss terms. :)

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  24. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    Good on you Leah.
    Wish I Could help.

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  25. PaulL (5,981 comments) says:

    I’d give you a go if I had work in Hamilton. But unfortunately I don’t. Good on you for looking though. IT can be tough – but there are a bunch of call centre type operations that allow some variant of working from home. Support desks and the like. There must be some opportunities in there.

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  26. big bruv (13,904 comments) says:

    $600 a week!!!…for sitting on your arse all day at home?

    No wonder this country is in the shit. When you pay feral people that much money to have kids it is bloody encouraging them to keep breeding.
    All we are doing is ensuring that we keep producing generation after generation of losers and low life. Cut the DPB right now and the problem will be cured.

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  27. Steve (North Shore) (4,563 comments) says:

    I will paint the roof myself thanks, and good luck with your computer games/ IT skills

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  28. Leah (5 comments) says:

    PaulL: Yeap, I’m not going to stop trying to find work :) One of the barriers I’ve found is the lack of degree, which is why I’ve decided to go to Uni. That hasn’t stopped me looking though, and I’m not just focusing on IT work. I’ve also made changes in my life to make it easier to actually get to work. Less than 6 months ago I was living in a small town where there were over 1500 applicants for 8 jobs at the local KFC. So, one of the main reasons for moving to Hamilton was to find work. I also have family here that can help, which I didn’t really have before I moved. I’ve also recently moved to a more central location, so I can actually get to work – before I moved it would have been very difficult to even get to a job where I was. I do believe I’ll get there, and while I’m looking, I’ll do things to add to my skill set.

    Steve (North Shore): You sure? Actually, it’d probably be safer if you did LOL. But thanks. :)

    And so people know: I am very grateful that I live in a country with a welfare safety net. Not because I can live “sitting on my arse all day”, but because when I look at parts of the world that don’t have these systems in place, we really wouldn’t want our country like that. I know the taxes I’ve paid in the past have contributed to this system I’m currently using. I have faith in my ability to be able to pay the remainder in the future. I’m not complaining about ‘entitlement’ or ‘cash’. I’m concerned that there are good people who are being unfairly targeted, and I don’t feel I can just sit by and not do something. (Oh, and I’ve learnt I have some skills I never knew I had, and that could make the job hunt a lot easier!)

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  29. PaulL (5,981 comments) says:

    Leah: why IT in particular? It can be a tough area to break into without some form of qualification or other way to show aptitude. Having said that, I’ve definitely hired people before based on their demonstrated skills – have you built yourself a web site, created a blog, installed linux into a VM on your home computer, installed a LAMP server into a VM on your home computer? If you can talk about having done those things, show the demonstrated competence, and talk sensibly about the problems that you had along the way and how you resolved them, then you’re well on your way to getting a job.

    Are you mobile to Auckland? I see Orion Health are hiring. I see a bunch of testing roles there – testing is a great entry level job in IT. http://www.orionhealth.com/careers/new-zealand/

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  30. MT_Tinman (3,187 comments) says:

    Bob R (782) Says:
    October 3rd, 2012 at 10:29 am
    @ ephemera,

    Don’t you agree that Leah & Sarah Gilbert should be blaming John Campbell, Susan St John & the Child Poverty Action Group? Aren’t they largely responsible for the impression that beneficiary parents are incapable of feeding their children?

    Bob R, Leah and Sarah are incapable of feeding their children.

    I/We/The poor bloody NZ worker feed their bloody children!

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  31. wtfunz (133 comments) says:

    PaulL,
    Bet you don’t get an answer to those points bud.
    I think Leah is really, really good at some play station game.

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  32. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    “One of the barriers I’ve found is the lack of degree, which is why I’ve decided to go to Uni.”
    Well the decision to “go to Uni” must be one heck of alot easier when you don’t actually have to PAY FOR IT yourself.
    As someone who had to take a bloody student loan, then slave away for years cleaning up spew in student pubs and waking early blurry eyed to go to lectures the next day I really can’t applaud you for your ‘oh so inspired’ decision to study at the NZ taxpayers expense. (We all know WINZ pay all DPB course costs..)

    “I know the taxes I’ve paid in the past have contributed to this system I’m currently using”
    I’ve paid a fucking shitload of tax myself in the past twenty years. Does this give me the ‘right’ to put my feet up and take a break for a few years??

    I’m sorry but my sister is a solo-mum and she is working her arse off holding down a full-time job and raising her kids well. It can be done.
    The self-righteousness of this lazy,parasitic, bludging baby factory Leah is really making my blood boil…

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  33. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Yes, yes, yes its all fine that they are trying to improve themselves. But why oh why should solo parents or unemployed be paid to go to university while our kids have to take our large loans? WTF is the sense of that? A plus students taking out loans will C minus beneficiaries get paid to go, courtesy of our taxes while we have to support our kids to minimise their student loan.

    Biggest scam in NZ educational history.

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  34. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Clintons welfare reforms in the 90s now mean if you choose to have a baby you know you will have to wait tables to pay for it.

    Here, just a couple of months ago, a solo mther got on TV news and said “I’m not going to let having no money stop me from having another babiy if I want one”.

    What a bloody insult while my kids are 26, 28 and 30 and still havent been able to start a family because they are paying high taxes and user charges from day one of their employment to pay for scum like that.

    If anyone can find that clip please let me know – its a NZ grown classic.

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  35. Leah (5 comments) says:

    >>Leah: why IT in particular? It can be a tough area to break into without some form of qualification or other way to show
    >>aptitude.

    I studied at Waikato Polytech, studying business computing specialising in programming for two years. I was one of the top students for both years, averaging 95% across all my courses. So I moved to Wellington, with the intention of entering the IT sector via one of the government departments down there. Unfortunately, I found once I got there that it wasn’t that easy, and was unemployed for a while, finally finding work in a bar. After being told be every recruitment agency that they had no interest in me as I had no degree regardless of my ability and testimonials from people I’d worked with at tech, I decided to credit my previous learning and work towards my degree.

    >>have you built yourself a web site, created a blog, installed linux into a VM on your home computer, installed a LAMP
    >>server into a VM on your home computer? If you can talk about having done those things, show the demonstrated
    >>competence, and talk sensibly about the problems that you had along the way and how you resolved them, then you’re
    >>well on your way to getting a job.

    What I’m currently doing is actually building a site based on the Joomla CMS specifically so I can show my skills. It is one of the big issues I have with showing my abilities. I have built/worked on sites in the past, but none are now current, hence the one I’m building now. To get this going I installed Apache, PHP and MySQL on my little old 20 year old laptop. (Yes, I could have used something like XAMPP to install, but a learnt a lot from doing it from scratch). I’m not a guru in this field by any means, but I’m more than capable of finding the info I need to fix up a system.

    Over the years I’ve played around on home machines, installing various op systems, and problem solving hardware issues as needed. I’m more software tech than hardware, but I have enough background that I could probably be able to step in any entry level IT job. I’ve managed to install and maintain at least 2 linux versions and 3 windows ops on my laptop. Something that can be difficult on a 20 yearold Digital laptop LOL.

    The degree I’m currently working on is the Bachelor of Computing and Mathematics. I was originally looking at web program development, but the degree has changed a little, and I’m currently looking at the new structure to see if my focus will change. Something I can safely do without loosing any of my previous study – I particularly have an interest in the use of programs for rehabilitation from head injury. Something that I’ve become interested in due to personal experience.

    BTW, I will still need to get a student loan to study even if I receive DPB, WINZ won’t pay for it. Hopefully though I’ll be full time next year, which will make my studies complete within 2 years and I’ll be on the Student Allowance – ie I’ll be a normal student, but also sole parenting too.

    >>Are you mobile to Auckland? I see Orion Health are hiring. I see a bunch of testing roles there – testing is a great entry level job in IT. http://www.orionhealth.com/careers/new-zealand/

    Cheers. I’ll look at that now. I’ve also been told of a web design company down here that is known to take on mid degree students. So I’ll be chasing that up tomorrow. Fingers crossed!

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  36. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Hello people….

    First comment on David’s Kiwiblog…

    You’re going to hate me.. and fair enough too… I’m long term unemployed. The last full-time paid work I had was a temp job that I left 19 June. I haven’t been looking for work since then.

    So… folks really show their creative side when describing such people… ‘arsehole scum-sucking dole bludger filth’ for eg. Fair enough.

    Maybe the good working people of NZ can shame me into taking a shitty job with some gruesome ‘words of encouragement’? You’d likely be helping me no end.

    I’m not looking for sympathy and I’m not complaining.

    I voted National last time out… having been a Labour voter (to me a red vote is by proxy now a green vote and they are super scary)

    I’m a uni grad with an accounting degree. Paid for most of it myself and only required a loan after several course withdrawals over the years (loan stands at $3 000). I’ve yet to apply for a job related to this qualification (yeh, I realise that’s retarded). I feel I wasted my education resources (B- grade average 300 level = waste of time to accounting firms) and should’ve tried something else with better job prospects. Idiot.

    I’m a muppet, but at least I have no muppet children!! And at 35… odds are I won’t have any. “GOOD!!” you say. That’s what I’d say too…. ha.

    Anyway….

    That’s my own glasshouse out of the way before I (have the damned cheek to?) throw any stones at Leah and Sarah Gilbert.

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  37. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Is orion health the private company thats going to take over southern cross despite their members voting against it? Its really coincidental that they have taken of the SCTI sign and the Southern Cross Building in Auckland.

    Anyway, I digress.

    Of course the other scam thats been rampant by solo parents is the fostering of other children for which they get an income top up. Anything but let those poor children go to a middle class home with two parents!

    And …. lets not forget the accomodation supplement in an already subsidised state house. When whinging about having to live on $xxx per week they always conveniently forget the topups like the $300 per week accomodation they are living in.

    Oh, and then the borders, … lets not forget those….

    I just dont believe it anymore…..

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  38. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    When my wife went back to university she had to take out a loan and did not get a student supplement. She was partnered with a solo parent who was on over $36K.

    To say that the solo parent benefit and the student supplement costs the government the same is just a distortion of the truth. In many cases the student isnt even getting the supplement and in others $150 per week is not the same as the solo benefit.

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  39. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Another scam – the government makes no effort to recover costs from the other partner (usually father). If the responsibility for recovering costs was on the solo parent you might see some action.

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  40. Leah (5 comments) says:

    Not going to try and debate amounts of what others receive, as I have no idea of the circumstances. What I do know is that in my situation after looking at the figures with the WINZ case worker, there is no practical difference to what I receive in the hand if I’m on allowance or DPB. However I have been told by someone at WINZ to go onto the allowance if studying full time, because if I do end up working, the cut off for income is higher – however that may not be relevant any more with the changes to income thresh hold that is being brought in with the reforms. I also don’t receive any assistance for fees, though there may be now also a $500 grant that is available to cover some course costs – however it’s not likely I’ll use this – I’ve usually just put gold coins aside each week and found secondhand txts, library desk copies and pdf versions if need be.

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  41. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Yes but your splitting the allowance for your child out. Are you really trying to tell people here that you and your child/ren are going to live and pay full market rent on $150 per week? Your numbers just dont ad up.

    Also Ithink its the other way round – solo benefit will be better. One of my sons is now eligible for the student alowing (over 25, another scam) but he wont get it because he’s earning more than $20K gross.

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  42. Leah (5 comments) says:

    No the single parent allowance rate is $293.58/wk. Exactly the same as DPB. I’ll get exactly the same amount of family assistance, and accom suppliment too. So in the hand it’s the same amount.

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  43. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    It’s interesting the contrary positions taken on benefit levels – from those who say that an inability to cope shows an inability to prioritise an appropriate budget and those who suggest that an ability to cope shows that levels are too high.

    Beneficiaries face different rent costs and power costs (some property is not insulated), sometimes there is part-time work income, but often not.

    The bottom line is that people on low wages struggle to manage and receive WFF tax credits, and they are all on higher incomes than beneficiaries who do not receive the In Work tax credit.

    The fact is after decades of family benefits and their replacement Family Support and now WFF, few New Zealand familes have not received support. And without the DPB, the unemployed parent would still be on the UB (or student allowance) plus extra amounts for children unless they received a job. All the DPB does is set limits on the work testing element of the UB.

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  44. Liberal Minded Kiwi (1,571 comments) says:

    Pretty sure that if you can spend all your day organising a protest and tapping up support, then you’d have a decent and a half opportunity to be knocking on doors looking for work. I see it every day. People tapping away on their PCs sending completely substandard CVs, 100’s of them daily, for jobs that they have not properly applied for. I shake my head in despair at the lack of commonsense by job seekers, (unemployed and those in a job at present).

    It’s easy these days to get a Labour or Green MP to support your cause, they trawl the internet all day looking for the next big thing. If you want to get ahead in life, you don’t hang around the types of people that took a payrise or massive increase in living standards by entering Parliament or working in Parliament as a office lacky – you start asking people who are already in proper jobs and the wealth creators, not the bottom feeders. Who would you rather get careers advice from? A unionist or a businessman?

    Our benefits system is one of the most generous out there and we don’t have enough people out there who want to scale it back and make it for the truely needy. No wonder the population exodus is continuing and will continue to do so while other Asian and ex communist nations steamroll past us in the economic performance tables.

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  45. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    Interesting, as just yesterday I sent an email to a work broker at W & I about just that. CV’s full of fluff and no substance. after being sent three for people who were totally inappropriate for the job on offer. Told the wb that I didn’t have time to waste on people who couldn’t be bothered putting all their details on the CV.
    Was told the day before by the same wb that people couldn’t afford to live on the minimum rate so it was hard to find a candidate. Pointed out that there were plenty of people working in many places on exactly that and that it wasn’t her job to tell people what to pay or earn, just to get them employed. Couldn’t seem to get the wb to understand I wanted a young person not a geriatic. Given up and will advertize.

    Oh and all I need is someone willing to work, able to concentrate, be literate in english and maths and comversation, happy to work out in the outside world, not mind getting wet and like being treated respectfully. Not a big ask, no degree’s required, straight forward hours and plenty available.
    No one unemployed fits apparently.
    Bloody great joke.

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  46. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    “Something I can safely do without loosing any of my previous study ”
    Rather than ranting on about how ‘academic’ you are because you are enrolled part-time in University you might want to learn how to spell.
    (Are we sure this isn’t Philu in a dress?- the revoltingly smug ‘I am smarter than you and it’s my right to be on a benefit’ attitude is eerily familiar..)

    “I will still need to get a student loan to study even if I receive DPB, WINZ won’t pay for it. ”
    Well now you are just telling porkies Leah… It is common knowledge that WINZ pays course costs for DPB recipients.

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  47. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    Left Right and Centre- Jesus you aren’t “Long Term Unemployed” mate. I’ve seen people on unemployment benefits for 10-20 years.
    The welfare system is designed to help people like you. People who are genuinely trying to find work or get themselves out of a sticky situation- Not walking baby factory DPB mums who choose spitting out squawking brats as a career (as it pays so much more than actually, you know-‘ working’)

    Good luck with your job hunting and well done on the degree-You actually have one! Unlike Leah who continually tells us how brilliant she is but whose only achievement thus far seems to be the ongoing fleecing of the New Zealand taxpayer.

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  48. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    A few facts.

    Most women go onto the DPB when they lose a job or separate from a working partner. They would have been receiving WFF In Work tax credits before then. Funny how it is the women who are the bludgers, not those not paying child support or maitenance.

    Our benefit system is not more generous than the OECD average. After all child poverty here in Enzed is on the high side yet unemployment is higher in Europe where child poverty is lower.

    An observation, if those on welfare are making an effort and show that, then they are “continually telling us how brilliant they are -claiming to be “academic”. And another, if we were to scale back public support to those who truly needed it, we would look at means testing super – not those raising children without any other means of support.

    Left Right and Centre, do voluntary work offering your accountancy training. Like Leah is with her IT.

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  49. b1gdaddynz (279 comments) says:

    I think the fact that you get paid while you study just because you have a kid is extremely unfair…my wife has 2 younger sisters who are both studying but even though they have no contact or support from their father it is still counted against them getting a student allowance. One of them has a kid and thus gets the DPB as has a her own place and is doing quite well; the other sister who doesn’t have a kid has just had to move back in with her mother because she was struggling to make ends meet. How is this fair?

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  50. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    “Most women go onto the DPB when they lose a job or separate from a working partner”

    Bollocks! This isn’t the 1960s…
    The DPB is a popular career choice nowdays as it pays unskilled teenage girls considerably more than actually working for a living. Need some more cash for the pokies or some smokes? Then simply spit out another squawking baby..WINZ will pay you handsomely for it.

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  51. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    About half of New Zealanders are eligible to get student allowance – those who do not can borrow this amount against the tertiary loan.

    Student allowance and the borrowed living cost is not at a level allowing someone to rent on their own – even with AS. They would still have to share a flat.

    The DPB with child component is set to support someone living in their own family space – just as is the UB for couples.

    The daughter is getting a free home to live in or supporting her mother using money from the tertiary loan. Her problem is how the system works to categorise people as from parents able to support them even where parents have separated. There would be more equity if the student allowance was universal and 100% course cost fees were charged.

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  52. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Even Lindsay Mitchell agrees that most women on the DPB did not go onto it by having their first baby longknives.

    But congratulations you may have set a new record for most lies per word.

    The minimum wage is over $25,000 – the amount for a woman and one child is $15,000.

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  53. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    the amount for a woman and one child is $15,000 … AND the $15,000 worth of accomodation supplement + other supplements when required.

    Targetted assistance and means testing so the twats get paid to go to uni and the best and brightest have to get a loan is a cynical scam and no way to run a modern first world democracy.

    One thing though – the father and mother should pay full cost recovery even after the children are independent – ie UB and DPB should be a loan and student allowance should be a benefit based on merit.

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  54. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    People working also qualify for AS (and get the In Work tax credit). The other stuff often has to be paid back.

    There is the option of all workers paying a contribution out of their wages to cover the cost of unemployment support. As a form of insurance fund to provide for those who lose jobs. As we do with ACC for injury.

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  55. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    “But congratulations you may have set a new record for most lies per word. ”

    Pity that this “Liar” has actually worked at WINZ and has seen first hand the massive amounts of cash that is literally thrown at these bludging parasites. The average New Zealand taxpayer would be fucking horrified if only he knew….

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  56. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    And yet you still cannot provide any information to back up what you said – sort of says it all really.

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  57. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    You don’t think the fact that I was working at WINZ fulltime and also bartending at nights, and yet still most of the DPB ‘clients’ were earning more in the hand weekly than I was “says it all”??

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  58. wtfunz (133 comments) says:

    SPC – is your head is where a lost eel was last seen?
    What Longknives is saying is they don’t have the: $15,000, one slag/one future slag, you quote. They are NZ’s worst child abusers using babies to support their life style.
    Remove your head and wake up to yourself before calling people liars based on rubbish.
    Yes not everyone on the DPB fits this BUT far too many do because of a system you clearly support, vote for and encourage by your actions.

    Sadly – You are part of the problem rather that part of the solution.

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  59. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Yep it never changes. I remember quite some time ago one coming into the vet clinic where I worked. His dog had broken its leg. Dont worry he’ll just go down to WINZ to get the money. No way they’ll never pay for that. An hour later $600 on the table. Oh next day cant pick the dog up, car broken. Dont worry winz will pay. A few hrs later after $500 repairs to car c/- winz, he picks up the dog.

    Drongo, though. A few months later the dog gets hit by car again. Dont worry winz will pay. NO, they’ll never pay twice. A few hrs later another $600 c/- yours truly arrives on the counter.

    Why for decades have all new and sceond had furniture shops had “winz quotes” signs outside them?

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  60. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    This hasnt arisen by accident – its a result of ideologically guided legislation to “redistribute wealth”. The only problem is that the scyphants who support the system have no idea who the rich and poor are and if they do they dont care because wherever the money goes its going out of middle class hard working people’s pockets and thats good.

    As soon as people realise that all this legilation brought in by Labour and National is as much about punishing their idea of the responsible middle class the better.

    Thats why they let solos foster babies in preference to married couples.

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  61. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Kevin, Work and Income require repayment, it becomes a debt they repay – out of their benefit.

    Solos preferred to married couples for fostering, any evidence?

    The middle class get tax credits to support their families while in employment.

    Most people on the DPB are there after losing jobs (women in work supporting children go onto this benefit when losing a job) or after separating from a partner. There is no evidence to the contrary.

    There is also no evidence that those on the DPB get more money than a working person would supporting that number of children. There is no evidence to the contrary.

    Sure a woman supporting 3-5 children would get as much as a single person working full-time at Work and Income – but that is not comparing the same thing.

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  62. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Reply to LongKnives:

    *Left Right and Centre- Jesus you aren’t “Long Term Unemployed” mate. I’ve seen people on unemployment benefits for 10-20 years*

    Hi… I’m nothing if not honest… unemployed since about July 2011 save for about 3-4 months temp work over a period of time from March to June 2011. I waited until I had no cash left and signed up for the dole in October 2011. But yeh… I haven’t gone 10-20 years in a row on welfare yet. I really don’t know how anyone could go that long on welfare. At the last job I was racking up the hours and it was so good to be able to pay the bills straight away. I quit when I was given a 14 hour 5 day shift working with a young fella who I just had to get away from. I’ll tell you about him if you want. 14 hours a day is waaaaaay OTT for me.

    General comment: I think it’s cool that you have the media story about Sarah and Leah, and then they’re commenting on Stuff and on Kiwiblog… so… the interactiveness is brilliant. It’s great that they can clarify the article and people can share a debate with them.

    My impression of them is that they’re not overly blessed as intellectuals. Noticeably missing is their age (and children’s ages, I might’ve missed these facts somewhere though) so that I can be really judgemental of young mothers… heh. I’m a bit worried by silly teenage sounding arguments such as “so a prostitute has more value to the community than a housewife”- I didn’t quite get where that was coming from for eg. That’s a dumb comparison isn’t it? And there’s quite a few other weird lines of reasoning going on. All I heard was ‘prostitute’. Just kidding. I think after the prostitute/ housewife line you can shake your head in bemusement and shout ‘NEXT!!’.

    Sarah Gilbert: “Sure I chose to have the child while I was dependent on the state. However, before the child, I was facing a nowhere life, unemployable due to my lack of skills, moreso (sic) by my health. In the big picture, is it better I have the incentive of my single child to upskill toward full-time employment? or languish in the depression and illness the PTSD I have would otherwise send me into and continue my dependency to the end of my days?”

    Hang on…. so… the reason to have a child is so that you’re motivated to upskill? What the hell? Ummm…

    And…. ‘chose to have a child while dependent on the state’. So.. could’ve had an abortion? I’m pregnant, father leaves, I’ll have the baby anyway, is that it? Wow…. really?

    I laughed hard when one of them quoted a study claiming that their choice to have children and care for them as being equal to two fulltime jobs a week. I’d like to see them do 13 hours a day furniture removal six days a week and still think that. I’d take looking after the kids every time.

    There’s just a lot of weirdness in quite a lot of what they say and I’d be here forever going through it all point by point. I’d never get this comment published… for fear of sucking the entire www bandwidth along with it in a blackhole of verbose responses unravelling the flawed absurdity of their misguided warped reasoning and youthful idealistic folly.

    Seems to be a lot of weirdo distorted reasoning… that made me think they might be young and silly. Just looking at Sarah in the Stuff image…and that’s all I need along with the quotes…. I’m worried about her.. heh. Leah just looks scary. Smiles cost nothing!! :)

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  63. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Can’t get evidence even under the OIA. But we all know cases and there are the cases leaked to the media. Eg the sister of the occupies of bastion point in a 1.3 million dollar state,house for 12 years despite multiple convictions for benefit fraud.

    I know of a woman who is raised two families,on the dpb. Three are grown up and gone, now she,has 3 to another guy whose buggered off, bingo. But it’s going to work out ok because her whanau has a lot of land up north.

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  64. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    I think there are some people on benefits who are using it as a lifestyle choice – but they are certainly not the majority.

    Maybe 47%?

    And I don’t know anyone who thinks everyone on a benefit is a parasite, a bludger, lazy or selfish.

    This may be true, but the alacrity with which you attack any and all beneficiaries who dare to go public rather belies this claim. I think you display at least a cognitive bias.

    The welfare cuts reforms, at this time of global financial stress while so many private losses have been socialised by the privateers, are simply cruel.

    Add in the tax cuts for the rich and increase in GST that, taken together, have resulted in a major decrease in the progressivity of the tax scales, and the inevitable result will be more kids in poverty and widening inequality and yet more attacks on the bludgers who, magically, when widespread economic growth eventually returns, will vanish from the pages of our welfare rolls.

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  65. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Another scam. I can remember my parents an uncle and aunt discussing back in the 60s how people had been given cheap rent state houses when poor, become rich, bought a new house to rent out while still getting cheap rent in the state house. That’s how long these scammers have been going.

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