General Debate 20 October 2012

October 20th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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220 Responses to “General Debate 20 October 2012”

  1. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    First!! It must be the weekend :D

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  2. eszett (2,417 comments) says:

    Just for the “special” Obama friends amongst the commentariat here.

    Obama defines Romnesia.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=sNGZil616ug

    Pretty funny. Nice punchline too.
    Also pretty funny. Romney debates himself:

    Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPgfzknYd20
    Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZfXvFAeHVo

    Enjoy. :-)

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  3. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Waitangi? It imposed no such obligation

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  4. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    Mighty River CEO gets a retention bonus. Good. Whining from Russell Norman is predictable. Would be good if some reporter asked him a serious question about whether its important to have good Chief Executive to run renewable resource generators or to ensure power companies are responsible or that they work with the community properly. I suppose though he thinks any person can run a power co. The Mighty River CEO won CEO of the year at a recent industry award. Perhaps it would be good for the company, the sale, and country to retain him? Norman is a cock.

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  5. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    It’s a very rare day that we agree with Winston Peters, but he is right inasmuch that the solutions to the appalling rate of child abuse by Maori must come from Maori. So how about HE becomes the one to lead change and do something positive for once, so that the legacy he leaves when the voters tire of him again is a positive one rather than his usual divisive nonsense.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/a-rare-day.html

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  6. Sonny Blount (1,783 comments) says:

    Eszett reminds us of just how bad a campaigner Obama really is.

    Americans have had the blindness lifted from their eyes and it is obvious that Obama has never fought or won a tight campaign in his career. Democrats will regret nominating him in 2008 and they may be looking at 2 years in the cold without any of the houses of government to stew on it.

    Congratulations President Romney and Vice President Ryan. You can now shuffle off quietly Barack.

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  7. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    SB
    Re: ‘You can now shuffle off quietly Barack’

    Sadly, having now tasted the power and ‘prestige’ that associates with the office , I doubt that this will happen. El Presendente’ has got too many influential backers with vested interests, and ‘friends’ who have received hand-outs to let this happen. Although it’s only a matter of days to go until the election per se’ , I suspect that things are shortly going to become extremely nasty; there’s nothing like the threat of loosing power to bring out the real sides of an individual’s personality . . .

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  8. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    KS
    So you expect one person to solve the child abuse problem? You are leaving a trail of nonsense yourself.
    What are YOU doing about the child abuse problem? I support two families where two of the adults suffered abuse and neglect when they were young before being adopted into another family. I cannot do a lot but I do small things like keep in touch by phone , visit at Christmas , buy cheap fruit etc ..just generally be an ally.
    Prevention is better than cure…We can all do small things. What can you do?

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  9. edd (157 comments) says:

    Bloomberg – “The appeal of the Australian and New Zealand currencies was also supported after Pacific Investment Management Co., !!!!manager of the world’s biggest bond fund!!!!, said it has boosted holdings in the South Pacific nations’ assets.”

    Gee why does little old NZ have a high dollar again?

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  10. tom hunter (4,893 comments) says:

    I don’t know if anybody else has already put this up but the following is another amazing set of photos where present day shots are overlaid with those from the past. I was looking at some of modern-day San Francisco and the 1906 earthquake, but the ones shown here are haunting in the truest sense of the word as the ghosts of WWII return to the streets of Cherbourg:

    The remarkable pictures overlay modern scenes from France with atmospheric photographs taken in the same place during the war.
    Historical expert Jo Teeuwisse, from Amsterdam, began the project after finding 300 old negatives at a flea market in her home city depicting familiar places in a very different context.

    One of the most affecting is the second, where a US soldier is standing and looking at what appears to be a dead German soldier (I say that based on what looks like the classic round ammunition on his hip) simply sitting on a small flight of stone steps where he died – while above him is a modern, yellow mailbox. My thought is whether the people who live there and walk up and down those steps every day, know of this? I doubt it, but if they ever see this photo, will they begin to pause and look down at that spot as they pass? Once seen I don’t think I would be able ignore that image of the past.

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  11. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    KS
    For the record , I have also reported abuse to the old social welfare dept on two occasions..
    The first time I got laughed at and mocked..by an aging s/worker..The second time , I rec’d a letter saying the injury a young boy had received for which he had rec’d hospital treatment , was a ”sporting injury.” The woman who wrote this subsequently rose to the highest levels of the dept. I always recall the poor father of the little girl murdered in the Waiarapa who had contacted the authorities so many times with grave concern for this daughter.
    Much more recently , there was situation where a young girl was horrifically abused in Ak and it turned out 12 agencies had been involved with the family. Some people are easily deceived.

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  12. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    High-flying expatriate businessman Chris Liddell is working at the heart of Mitt Romney’s transition team, planning a smooth transfer of power should the Republican win the keys to the Oval Office next month.

    Mr Liddell has lived in the United States since 2003 as chief financial officer in three major companies, International Paper in Connecticut, Microsoft in Seattle and, until last year, General Motors in Detroit.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10841754

    Need him here to egt rid of the socialists.

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  13. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    The green company that the Obama Admin funds with U.S tax dollars, the Chevy Volt battery factory, has never shipped a battery, and it’s employees sit around playing cards all day…

    Stimulus-funded $300 million Chevy Volt battery factory has never shipped a battery

    Workers at LG Chem, a $300 million lithium-ion battery plant heavily funded by taxpayers, tell Target 8 that they have so little work to do that they spend hours playing cards and board games, reading magazines or watching movies…
    “There would be up to 40 of us that would just sit in there during the day,” said former LG Chem employee Nicole Merryman, who said she quit in May.

    “We were given assignments to go outside and clean; if we weren’t cleaning outside, we were cleaning inside. If there was nothing for us to do, we would study in the cafeteria, or we would sit and play cards, sit and read magazines,” said Merryman. “It’s really sad that all these people are sitting there and doing nothing, and it’s basically on taxpayer money…”

    The company’s goal: 300 employees pumping out 15 million battery cells a year. Its biggest customer: The Chevrolet Volt.

    Two current employees told Target 8 that the game-playing continues because, as much as they want to work, they still have nothing to do.

    The U.S. Department of Energy provided a $151 million grant, part of Obama’s Recovery Act.

    http://youtu.be/RKmPhLYpnMo

    Oh dear…
    More money down the drain.

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  14. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    When George W Bush entered the WH, Clinton’s team removed all the “W” keys from the keyboards. Tee hee.

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  15. Fletch (6,408 comments) says:

    Looks like Bush was right back in 09. According to ex-speechwriter Matt Latimer in his book “Speech-less: Tales of a White House Survivor” –

    Latimer said Bush was “ticked off” after one of Obama’s speeches and he said the future president wasn’t “remotely qualified” for the challenges of the job.

    “(Bush) came in one day to rehearse a speech, fuming. ‘This is a dangerous world,’ he said for no apparent reason, ‘and this cat isn’t remotely qualified to handle it. This guy has no clue, I promise you,'” Latimer said.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/09/15/bush-on-obama-this-guy-has-no-clue/

    Looks like Bush was right. Obama does have no clue.

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  16. wat dabney (3,775 comments) says:

    “A Sad Green Story”

    Federal subsidies also created a network of green tech corporations hoping to benefit from taxpayer dollars. One of the players in this network was, again, Al Gore. As Carol Leonnig reported in The Washington Post last week, Gore left public office in 2001 worth less than $2 million. Today his wealth is estimated to be around $100 million.

    Leonnig reports that 14 green tech firms that Gore invested in received or directly benefited from more than $2.5 billion in federal loans, grants and tax breaks. Suddenly, green tech looks less like a gleaming beacon of virtue and more like corporate welfare, further enriching already affluent investors.

    Remember, this corrupt cronyism is Green Party policy; to replace free-markets with corporate welfare.

    The U.S. government wasn’t the only one investing in renewables. Governments around the world were also doing it, and the result has been gigantic oversupply, a green tech bubble. Keith Bradsher of The Times reported earlier this month that China’s biggest solar panel makers are suffering losses of up to $1 for every $3 in sales. Panel prices have fallen by three-fourths since 2008. Manufacturers will need huge subsidies far into the future — as Bradsher writes, “a looming financial disaster.” The U.S. share of the global market, meanwhile, has fallen from 7 percent to 3 percent since 2008.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/19/opinion/brooks-a-sad-green-story.html?_r=1&

    Another triumph for the Greens’ central planning apparatchiks and their grand schemes to piss away our hard-earned salaries for the benefit of the few.

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  17. kowtow (8,522 comments) says:

    The relentless unopposed march of the Nanny State.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/7830554/Govt-mulls-tough-steps-to-stub-out-smoking

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  18. Griff (7,799 comments) says:

    All You are telling me is the political system in the us is corrupt
    if the republican gets in to power they just blow the dosh to a different bunch of lobbyists
    the states are not addressing the structural problems in its Economy or the state of their political system

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  19. wat dabney (3,775 comments) says:

    It’s not a nanny state, it’s a thuggish totalitarian state.

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  20. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock on Winston Peters:

    ” rather than his usual divisive nonsense”.
    …………………………………
    John Carran, 2 April 1996

    “Vehement opposition to immigration, particularly from Asian countries, in New Zealand from an ill-informed and xenophobic rabble persists despite overwhelming evidence that immigration will improve our long term economic prospects.

    In 1988 The Institute of Policy Studies published detailed research by Jacques Poot, Ganesh Nana and Bryan Philpott on the effects of migration on the New Zealand economy. The research, which abstracted from the social and environmental impact of immigration, concluded that “…a significant migration inflow can be beneficial to the performance of the New Zealand economy and subsequent consumption and income levels.” The authors point out that this is in general agreement with Australian research on the economic consequences of immigration.



    Of course there is more to life than attaining economic excellence. The social and environmental impact of immigration also needs to be considered. But here the reasons given for restricting immigration range from pathetic to extremely dodgy. Most of the accusations are barely disguised racist piffle backed by tenuous rumours and cloudy anecdotes. Winston Peters’ stirring of the masses has exposed the ignorance and racial biases of a small and distasteful section of New Zealand society. These people yearn for a cloistered, inhibited, white (with a bit of brown at the edges) dominated utopia fondly envisaged by racists and xenophobes everywhere.

    http://www.gmi.co.nz/news/1021/opposition-to-immigration-why-let-the-arguments-get-in-the-way.aspx

    Savings Working Group
    January 2011

    “The big adverse gap in productivity between New Zealand and other countries opened up from the 1970s to the early 1990s. The policy choice that increased immigration – given the number of employers increasingly unable to pay First-World wages to the existing population and all the capital requirements that increasing populations involve – looks likely to have worked almost directly against the adjustment New Zealand needed to make and it might have been better off with a lower rate of net immigration. This adjustment would have involved a lower real interest rate (and cost of capital) and a lower real exchange rate, meaning a more favourable environment for raising the low level of productive capital per worker and labour productivity. The low level of capital per worker is a striking symptom of New Zealand’s economic challenge.

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/reviews-consultation/savingsworkinggroup/pdfs/swg-report-jan11.pdf

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  21. edd (157 comments) says:

    Does anyone here believe, in todays economic climate and with our governents hands off approach, that if the worlds biggest bond fund wanted to minuplate the NZ dollar into a bubble (and destroy the NZ econony in the process) that they couldn’t?

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  22. tom hunter (4,893 comments) says:

    Looks like Bush was right. Obama does have no clue.

    One of the most telling examples is when you look at the direct contrast that Obama and company drew between how they were going to deal with Russia and how Bush had. Much was made about the dreadful state of relations due to the “cowboy” Bush, and how Obama was going to “reset” the relationship with “Smart Power”.

    This first effort got off to a bad start when – in using a big, red button as the symbol, with “Restart” written in Russian on it – Hillary Clinton was informed by the Russian foreign minister that they’d used the Russian word for ‘overcharged.’

    Smart Power.

    And where has this, and other ingratiating efforts, got the US in enlisting Russia’s help around the world? Precisely nowhere as Russia has happily stiffed the US on matters large and small, as this article makes clear.

    It’s an incredible list, ranging from forgiving $11 billion of North Korean debt, allowing them to continue on their way, to selling huge amounts of weapons to Chavez, to Syria, to propping up the old communist thug in Belarus, and even to little things like Mugabe:

    Then–U.S. ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad told the Security Council that “the U-turn in the Russian position is particularly surprising and disturbing.” More recently, in August 2012, Russian deputy foreign minister Mikhail Bogdanov visited Zimbabwe and promised that Moscow would continue to “support it on the international front.”

    “surprising and disturbing”? Yeah – almost as surprising as the arrogant, “smart”, idiocy of the Obama administration.

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  23. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    Auckland (NZ’s sucking vampire squid) has beaten Sydney, Bora Bora, The Whitsunday Islands and Fiji’s Yasawa Islands to take out the title for Australasia’s top destination in the 2012 World Travel Awards.

    For 19 years the World Travel Awards have acknowledged and recognised excellence in the global travel and tourism industry.

    Auckland Tourism, Events and Economic Development (ATEED) acting general manager destination, Jason Hill, says the win reflects Auckland’s ever-growing strength as a truly international destination.

    It is the city’s second win in three years in this category.

    “This is an outstanding result that once again shows Auckland is more than holding its own against some of the world’s most popular destinations. We are consistently ranked as one of the best places in the world to visit, live, study and invest, and this latest award is further testament to that,” says Hill.
    http://tvnz.co.nz/travel-news/auckland-named-australasia-s-top-tourism-destination-5142301

    and in an interview new infrastructure (paid for by taxpayer ) was cited as one of the reasons. Bali is a nice place to visit if you can keep the locals from climbing on you. Those city rankings by that other outfit [Mercer] are for the highly paid employees of international companies for figuring out appropriate renumeration, not for Joe Blow Kiwi.

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  24. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    The minnows of the Savings Working Group
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/reviews-consultation/savingsworkinggroup/members

    “We have deliberately set wide terms of reference for the Working Group. The only exclusions are New Zealand Superannuation, which this Government will not change, and broad taxation of capital gains or land, which we have previously said we will not introduce. ”

    “Otherwise we are not ruling anything in or out.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10668498

    Productivity Commision:
    We recommend that you:
    a agree to the inquiry selection process set out in Appendix 1
    Agree/disagree
    b agree that Commission’s second tranche of inquiries be selected on the degree that
    they:
    are relatively uncontroversial given the desire to establish broad political support for the Commission*

    • utilise the Commission’s unique position as an independent agency with high
    quality analytical ability and community engagement approaches
    • support the establishment of the Commission by developing its capability,
    capacity and reputation, and
    • have the potential to improve productivity and support the overall well-being of
    New Zealanders.
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/informationreleases/productivitycommission/pdfs/t2011-2000.pdf

    *get it?! (oh well! :roll: )

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  25. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    nobbledpast participle, past tense of nob·ble (Verb)
    Verb:
    Try to influence or thwart (someone or something) by underhanded or unfair methods: “an attempt to nobble the jury”.

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  26. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    “We are looking at every option we can to stop people killing themselves,” Turia said.

    What about stopping some Maori from killing their own children?
    Oh, a too much difficult task for the ancient Turia, a useless racist enjoying the baubles of office.

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  27. Griff (7,799 comments) says:

    We do spend heaps to help maori
    Unfortunately you can not question the results for the billions we have spent on things that are supposed to help maori

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  28. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    The result of this policy will not take long to be felt: http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8551154/french-assembly-oks-75-tax-rate-on-rich

    The French national assembly has voted to tax the highest earnings in the country at a rate of 75 per cent, a campaign promise made by President Francois Hollande that has been criticised by conservative politicians.

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  29. backster (2,174 comments) says:

    There’s still love in the world and these guys never forget. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19998236

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  30. Morgy (172 comments) says:

    Hone accuses Bill English of being a liar on The Nation this morning and then goes on to say 99% of Maori are on his side in terms of the water rights issue and the share ‘offer’

    I don’t mind him doing that….after all, sensationalism is his forte however why didn’t Rachel Smalley (or any other reporter/journalist/interview) take him to task with the appropriate stats that refute his bullshit?

    Dumb…..but just another day eh?

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  31. tom hunter (4,893 comments) says:

    I don’t know how many people realise – I think it may have been a Wikipedia article of the day – but yesterday marked the 25th anniversary of “Black Monday”, the day in the USA when the stockmarket had its greatest ever crash, 22.6% in a single day.

    In NZ we had already had our opening on the Monday, so Tuesday was for us the fearful time as people watched the overnight terror in NY. For NZ the result was “Black Tuesday”, October 20th.

    However, until I read this article I had no idea how close to total disaster the markets had come in NY the following day, October 20 (their time):

    The immediate problem at the end of the day Monday and at the market open on Tuesday is that many securities firms and specialists (the firms on the trading floor who perform the all-important function of making a market for individual stocks by buying and selling from their own inventory) were facing margin calls on account of the fallen value of their now-swollen holdings, and, according to market rules, needed to settle their accounts within five business days. Many firms lacked sufficient cash to do so.

    But banks that normally extended credit to brokers and specialists were reluctant to step into the breach. Specialists and brokers were stunned when their banks said Monday night and early Tuesday morning that they wouldn’t make new loans. Some specialist firms faced immediate insolvency; as a result, a few were forced into “shotgun” mergers with larger firms. One small specialist firm that faced immediate insolvency, A.B. Tompane, merged overnight with Merrill Lynch; the deal was completed at 3 a.m. Tuesday morning.

    I wonder if they read the fine print before signing? But even little firms like survived the bigger picture quickly got uglier:

    Despite the Fed’s promise of liquidity, the market opened slowly, with many leading blue chip stocks taking an hour or more to begin trading. Initially the Dow Jones average was up an encouraging 200 points, but this gain quickly evaporated as specialists and securities firms tried to unload the large unwanted positions built up the day before. As buy orders dried up, blue chip stocks ceased trading one by one like a row of falling dominoes. Merck stopped trading at 9:52 am; Sears at 11:12; Eastman Kodak at 11:28; Philip Morris at 11:30; Dow Chemical at 11:43.

    Some blue chips had not opened at all. Stocks that remained open were trading sporadically and in small volumes. With so many stocks closed, the American Stock Exchange and the Chicago Mercantile Exchange halted options trading. By noon the Dow was off 100 points and market watchers feared it was about to drop over the cliff and fall another 200 points.

    Apparently there were discussions about simply closing the exchange and calls to the SEC from the likes of Goldman Sachs to do so. It just shows you the degree of judgement they really have when the President of the NYSE John Phelan, said that: “If we close it, we would never open it.” Scary shit, and then:

    At about 20 minutes before 1 pm a sudden turnabout occurred that traders later described to the Wall Street Journal as “a miracle.” At the Chicago Board of Trade, buy orders started flooding in for the MMI (Major Markets Index), the only major index option still trading. Within five minutes the prices of the MMI swung from an implicit 60-point discount to the underlying value of the stocks in its index to a 12-point premium. The Wall Street Journal described it as “the equivalent of a lightning-like 360-point rise in the Dow.”

    As with many market events, where this flood of buy orders came from is not fully known, but circumstantial evidence pointed to a small number of sophisticated buyers acting deliberately to force the market back into positive territory. News of the surge in the MMI reached the trading floors in New York at the same time several major corporations announced major share buybacks. Several banks reversed their earlier position and now agreed to extend credit to specialists and brokers. Shortly after 1 pm, most blue chips stocks reopened for trading; the crisis was over. The Dow ended the day up 102.2 points—a record move at the time, once more on record volume of 608 million shares.

    Amazing even for those of us who lived throught. Perhaps worthy of a thread in itself from DPF?

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  32. Griff (7,799 comments) says:

    How about invading the two sovereign states over oil or the religion aspect of said justification The cost has been horrendus

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  33. publicwatchdog (2,613 comments) says:

    Good moaning Kiwibloggers!

    What do you think about Brian Edwards predictions on John Key stepping down in the middle of next year?

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/5-key-step-down-middle-next-year-thanks-ck-131029

    Have a lovely day!

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  34. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    Not much actually penny. Now piss off and pollute the red rag.

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  35. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    Who will Maori blame for taking dud SOE shares?

    October 20th, 2012

    Perhaps the next generation’s fraudulent “full and final settlements” will include Labour, Green and the Maori Party MPs in the villain line-up. Because they have been part of the cunning plan to persuade punters that they are getting a steal instead of taking commercial risk off the a Crown that is handicapped in handling it by stupid politicians.

    Who will believe after they’ve lost money on the risky generation assets (and only just missed out on losing the lot in coal mining) that the whole left/drongo/media beat up about flogging the national silver was not part of a calculated plot to deceive.

    Future generations will simply not think it credible that our politics and media could be so dominated by economic and financial ignorance. They’ll prefer a conspiracy theory – essentially that the Opposition was in it with Bill English. It will all hang together. He just looks as if he is being forced to go around the country offering preferential access to shares, if they roll part of their current claim proceeds into shares.

    And if there is still a Waitangi Tribunal then, given its current form in making up “wrongs” and entitlements, they will have no trouble holding that unsophisticated iwi should have been protected from their own gullibility in taking SOE shares instead of money to lose some other way.

    How refreshing it would be if even one of the “leaders” who’ve spent the last two years whining that the government was about to steal kiwis’ birthright by flogging the SOE silver could acknowledge that the taxpayer would have been far better off if it had happened a year ago, before it became so obvious that we may have an electricity surplus, and before coal returned to what could be its long run status as a sunset industry.

    State owned businesses in competitive markets are no more ‘silver’ than any other family businesses. By the third generation they have mostly crumbled unless they’ve changed hands.

    http://www.stephenfranks.co.nz/?p=4684

    Can we see this happening? Oh yea.

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  36. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Ah Penny, it just smacks of wishful thinking on Edwards’ part. Labour-led coalition to win by default? There’s a Tui billboard in that one.

    Mainly though, all Edwards does is rehash the old and worn ‘John Key will give it away because he never had the right motivations’ line. His lot still can’t get their heads around JK winning one election, let alone the second (with an increased party vote %.)

    What Edwards and the Left politicati have been consistently unable to grasp is that the NZ public see JK as far more ‘one of them’ than they do the politicians and intelligentsia of the Left.

    So perhaps Edwards is really nowhere near as intelligent as he likes to think he is

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  37. Nostalgia-NZ (5,220 comments) says:

    Good on you joana.

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  38. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    For any of you (who are at all interested) I have decided to name my new pet Magpie “Fill”.

    Cause he is so hard to. :)

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  39. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    “Good moaning Kiwibloggers!”

    I was pissing by KB and unfortunately Penny got in the way.

    A good rinse in nice fresh water should sort her out! :)

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  40. Redbaiter (9,098 comments) says:

    Actually Brian Edward’s NBR article (referenced above) makes some quite good points. Edwards is a far left fool usually, but this time his analysis is quite accurate, especially the point about the Prime Ministership being on John Key’s bucket list.

    Key betrayed middle class NZ to his long term ambition to be PM, and in achieving this wish, and in the mental vacuum that represents his political understandings, he sold us out to Maori radicals and homosexual activists and of course, hard line socialists.

    Edwards’s five reasons why he thinks Key will quit-

    Reason One is that I don’t think John Key sees himself as, or is a career politician. He’s already on record as saying that if National loses the next election he’ll move on.

    Reason Two is that Key is Prime Minister of New Zealand because being Prime Minister was on his bucket list: make it big on Wall Street; make 50 million bucks, become Prime Minister of New Zealand; write a book, star in a movie with Madonna; buy Queensland… And the thing with bucket lists is, when you’ve ticked each one off, you move on. So this is really just another version of Reason One.

    Reason Three is that bucket-list people are only interested in doing things that bring them pleasure. Key isn’t having fun anymore. He has that ‘can’t be bothered’ look of someone who thought it was going to be all wine and roses – and for four years it was – but now finds that the wine has gone sour and the roses are wilting.

    Reason Four is that it can only get worse. Who needs it? Who needs having to make a grovelling apology in the House? Who needs being badgered by Gower and Garner and Soper and all those other smart-arsed pricks in the Gallery and having to be polite and keep your temper when you’d really like to tell them to shove their microphones up their arses?

    Who needs being lampooned daily by the cartoonists and lectured by the editorial writers in the press? Who needs having to depend on idiots and liars to keep your majority? Who needs any of it when you’ve got 50 grand in the bank (plus megabucks of interest) and could be touring the world with your lovely wife and children on your super yacht?

    Which brings me to Reason Five. Unlike most Members of Parliament, Key has options. He has options galore.

    But, mostly, I think Key looks over it – tired, jaded, disillusioned. Good god, you can’t even make a bloody joke about some fat German with the ridiculous name of Dotcom without it coming back to haunt you.

    Yep that’s right, the political ignoramus Key got his little list item ticked off, and now goes back to his comfy lifestyle leaving most of NZ up shit creek without a paddle.

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  41. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Yeh Red. The Dotcom crap did it for me. Can anyone imagine a real PM getting down and dirty with a fat, ugly turd like the German?

    Shearer is a useless bastard over not exploiting it but there should have never been the crack in the bloody veneer for him ever to get the idea that he could exploit it.

    Lets face it we are a tiny little burg of wannabees run by a hugely overloaded collection of incompetents dreaming that we are a real nation that actually counts in the world scheme.

    Don’t get me started on the “Punching above our weight” or the “Leaders in the fight against global warming shit”.

    We should just stick to what we do best. Playing Rugger and Spear Dancing!! :)

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  42. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Interesting expose on the auto bailout and why Mitt Romney wanted it to go broke:

    http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/18/greg_palast_mitt_romneys_bailout_bonanza

    Advisory: contains explicit greed.

    Juicy bits:

    The Romney’s were part of a group that blackmailed the government by threatening to use ownership of the steering columns plant to shut GM permanently.

    The Romney’s picked up $15million.

    Others made billions.

    25000 jobs shipped off to China.

    Is Romney’s prime talent being intelligently evil?

    You decide.

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  43. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    We could of course discuss the incompetence of our RNZAF or the Police if we had a yen to! :)

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  44. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Viking2 (7,827) Says:
    October 20th, 2012 at 12:24 pm
    Who will Maori blame…

    Stephen Franks is to race relations what the potato famine was to Ireland.

    He defines the term ‘one-eyed’.

    He should stick to commercial law, operating for and on behalf of the 1%.

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  45. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    “Stephen Franks is to race relations what the potato famine was to Ireland.”

    You mean he is populating the world with a new aspect Luc?

    I agree! :)

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  46. tom hunter (4,893 comments) says:

    25000 jobs shipped off to China.

    Is Romney’s prime talent being intelligently evil?

    You decide

    Oh dear! Another reason why the left are failing around the world. The long, $100 million, summertime effort to paint Mitt Romney as an evil rich guy blew up in the faces of the Obama campaign in the first debate. It was very silly of them to create a bar that was so low for Romney to hurdle: they should have stuck to the “flip-flopper” image.

    Yet somehow, the lowest level of the left still do not get this, even the occasional old shill operating out of NZ for a candidate he himself despises.

    It’s like the scene in the principal’s office in The Incredibles, with “democracynow” in the place of the teacher:

    He’s guilty!
    You can see it on his smug little face!
    Guilty, I say. Guilty ….

    It’s very sad. By the way GM has added only about 4,500 workers since then, not even close to offsetting the 63,000 workers that its dealerships had to let go when the terms of the bailout unilaterally shut them down.

    Saved UAW jobs though, which was the whole point of the sacrifice, and the entire lesson of crony capitalism.

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  47. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    You want a real scandal Luc?

    Here is one to get you started. Obama ran the most expensive campaign in human history. This was largely financed by his big business mates (like the auto industry) and banks.

    The first thing he did when in power (besides ramping up the war on Israels enemies in the muslim world) was to give away trillons of working Americans money to his financiers.

    .How about you judge Obama by the content of his character and not the color of his skin.

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  48. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    So nothing to say about the actual allegations then tom?

    It’s going to be interesting to see whether the MSM picks this up or whether they’ll just leave the alternative media to it. And if they don’t pick it up, why what does that say about their exclusively leftist bias that so many here continually allege, for if they really are exclusively biased toward the left then of course they’ll make it the lead item on every channel coast to coast, won’t they.

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  49. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Anyone that denies the left wing bias of the MSN can be dismissed as a liar with no credibility.

    I amazes me that people actually appear proud of being a socialist. The most evil murderous regimes in history were all socialist. The agony goes on in North Korea today and believe me, the world will be horrified when the truth comes out about what is going on there,now.

    This is the true history of the left. One of oppression and murder. It eclipses even religion as the most destructive ideology in modern times.

    It is a cancer of the mind and soul, and its followers should be treated in the same way as cancer cells. They deserve no respect or consideration.

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  50. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUeLjNvjz9E

    makre the animals last.

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  51. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Anyone that denies the left wing bias of the MSN can be dismissed as a liar with no credibility.

    Kea whose denying it? I’ve always said the media is biased, I just see it on both conservative media like Fox and on liberal media like the NYT. Many people here only ever talk about it as if it’s on only one side, which is nuts. Simple. As. That.

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  52. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I’ve never met a Maori yet that didn’t have a better ear for music than me. I’ve never met a Maori yet that could tell a joke worse than me. I’ve never met a Maori yet that could play sport worse than me.

    Official NZ government policy…….All other NZ citizens have to subsidise these Maori folks cause they are incapable??????

    :)

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  53. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Yes there is bias on both sides Reid.

    However, the MSM in this part of the world is overwhelmingly left. What is considered “center” in NZ, is often far left doctrine that has been normalised by constant exposure.

    The only place you access any other point of view, in NZ, is via the internet. Of course the left wants to stop that too, by bringing in “hate speech” laws etc.

    Every single socialist regime has restricted freedom of speech (thought crimes). Always backed up by a vast army of state police who torture and murder their citizens.

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  54. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    However, the MSM in this part of the world is overwhelmingly left. What is considered “center” in NZ, is often far left doctrine that has been normalised by constant exposure.

    I agree.

    Every single socialist regime has restricted freedom of speech (thought crimes). Always backed up by a vast army of state police who torture and murder their citizens.

    So what do you think about the way the US has put into place a legislative framework that eviscerates the constitution, doesn’t allow free speech, allows for indefinite detention without trial, where Homeland Security has just completed a buying program for hundreds of millions of rounds of hollow point ammo. You think that’s OK because “they’d never use it?”

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  55. wat dabney (3,775 comments) says:

    Interesting expose on the auto bailout and why Mitt Romney wanted it to go broke

    It was a bailout of organised and politically powerful union interests at the expense of everyone else. It was morally no different to the bailout of Wall Street.

    We can assume that Luc also supports the bailout of bankers.

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  56. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    One of the main drivers for wealthy people to support the far left is, of course, their desire to build up a sycophantic CV that is easily demonstrable so they will not be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

    Another reason is many of these remuera socialists really do think they know what is best for everyone.

    Yes Johnboy I think it’s high time there were ethnic quotas in the all blacks. I feel deprived and that makes my children “at risk youth” not seeing their ethnicity fairly represented. It will make them disengage from their schooling, drop out and take up a life of crime. To prevent this from happening I think it would be equitable and cost effective for the government to insist on the all blacks being an eeeeoooo /affirmative action employer.

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  57. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Would any “so called country” in the world other than Murriville, waste their valuable parliamentary time (that all the taxpaying citizens are picking up the huge fucking tab for) on shit like Dotcom and Dotkey?

    Tell me? I am actually living in the real world somebody…anybody…?? :)

    When is Lockwood out to pasture in Mother England then…???

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  58. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    A NUN WAS SITTING AT THE AIRPORT,

    WAITING FOR HER FLIGHT TO CHICAGO ..

    SHE LOOKED OVER IN THE CORNER AND

    SAW ONE OF THOSE WEIGHT MACHINES

    THAT TELLS YOUR FORTUNE AND THOUGHT

    TO HERSELF, ‘I’LL GIVE IT A TRY

    AND SEE WHAT IT TELLS ME.’

    SHE WENT OVER TO THE MACHINE,

    STEPPED UP ON THE SCALE AND PUT

    HER NICKEL IN, OUT CAME A CARD THAT READ,

    ‘YOU ARE A NUN, YOU WEIGH 128 LBS,

    AND YOU ARE GOING TO CHICAGO .’

    THE NUN SAT BACK DOWN. SHE TOLD

    HERSELF THAT THE MACHINE PROBABLY

    GIVES THE SAME CARD TO EVERYONE.

    THE MORE SHE THOUGHT ABOUT IT THE MORE

    CURIOUS SHE GOT SO SHE DECIDED

    TO TRY IT AGAIN SHE WENT BACK

    TO THE MACHINE AND AGAIN PUT

    HER NICKEL IN, AND OUT CAME

    A CARD THAT READ:

    ‘YOU ARE A NUN, YOU WEIGH 128 LBS,

    YOU ARE GOING TO CHICAGO AND

    YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY A FIDDLE.’

    THE NUN SAYS TO HERSELF,

    ‘I KNOW THAT IS WRONG,

    I HAVE NEVER PLAYED A MUSICAL

    INSTRUMENT EVEN ONCE IN MY LIFE.’

    SHE SAT BACK DOWN.

    FROM OUT OF NOWHERE A COWBOY CAME OVER

    AND SAT DOWN, PUTTING HIS FIDDLE CASE

    ON THE SEAT BETWEEN THEM. WITHOUT THINKING,

    SHE OPENED THE COWBOY’S CASE,

    TOOK OUT THE FIDDLE, AND STARTED

    PLAYING BEAUTIFUL MUSIC..

    SURPRISED AT WHAT SHE HAD DONE,

    SHE LOOKED OVER AT THE MACHINE,

    THINKING, ‘THIS IS INCREDIBLE, I’VE GOT TO TRY THIS AGAIN.’

    BACK TO THE MACHINE SHE WENT,

    PUT IN ANOTHER NICKEL, AND ANOTHER

    CARD CAME OUT. IT READ,

    ‘YOU ARE A NUN, YOU WEIGH 128 LBS ,

    YOU ARE GOING TO CHICAGO AND YOU

    ARE GOING TO BREAK WIND.’

    NOW SHE KNOWS THE MACHINE IS WRONG ,

    AS SHE THOUGHT TO HERSELF,

    ‘I’VE NEVER BROKEN WIND IN PUBLIC

    A SINGLE TIME IN MY LIFE.’

    BUT GETTING DOWN OFF THE MACHINE

    SHE SLIPPED,AND AS SHE WAS STRAINING

    TO KEEP HERSELF FROM FALLING TO

    THE FLOOR, SHE BROKE WIND.

    ABSOLUTELY STUNNED, SHE SAT BACK DOWN

    AND LOOKED AT THE MACHINE.

    SHE SAID TO HERSELF,

    ‘THIS IS TRULY REMARKABLE. I’VE GOT TO TRY

    THIS AGAIN.’SHE WENT BACK TO THE

    MACHINE,PUT IN ANOTHER NICKEL

    AN ANOTHER CARD CAME OUT.

    IT READ,
    ‘YOU ARE A NUN, YOU WEIGH 128 LBS,
    YOU HAVE FIDDLED AND FARTED AROUND
    AND MISSED YOUR FLIGHT TO CHICAGO ‘.

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  59. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    A Maori was hoping to immigrate to Australia
    Upon arriving in Australia, he was questioned by a customs official,

    “What is your business in Australia?”

    “I wish to immigrate,” the Maori replied.

    The customs officer asked, “Do you have a conviction record?”

    Confused, the Maori fella replied, “I didn’t think you still needed one.”

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  60. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    A female police officer arrested a man for drunk driving. The officer tells the man, “Sir, You have the right to remain silent.
    Anything you say can and will be held against you.”

    The drunk replies, “Tits”.

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  61. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Kea

    I give both guys and even share of criticism.

    Oh, gee, I see Tom is disagreeing with my informants, again, and by deflection, again.

    The nuance surrounding “sending Detroit broke” is that Chapter 7 bankruptcy, the restructuring procedure, was unavailable to GM at the time, so any bankruptcy as recommended by Romney would have led to immediate liquidation and a vastly more profitable outcome for Romney and his friends. Of course, this fact makes his story of the affair during the debate untruthful i.e. lies.

    And Tom’s suggestion of crony capitalism is apt no matter which party one wishes to point the bone at, but it’s how the US works these days. Romney is pretty smart at this kind of stuff and is remains a mystery why he makes himself look so foolish on the campaign trail.

    Talking of Obama, I watched his Jon Stewart interview and Stewart was pretty tough on him over Benghazi, but the anointed one took it all in his stride and aped our friend Tom with his deflections. There is a scandal in there somewhere, but I have the feeling that it will be subject to a professional cover-up job.

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  62. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    http://www.zengardner.com/us-govt-terrorist-identification-chart/

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  63. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I’m so impressed with Luc’s comments cause he gives the impression of being so intelligent.

    Fortunately we all know the truth. :)

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  64. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    You forgot this one Reid. Murri terrorist! :)

    http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=tama+iti&hl=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=QgiCULLEHuTsiAfpw4Fg&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQsAQ&biw=1482&bih=880

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  65. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    We can assume that Luc also supports the bailout of bankers.

    Assume away, Wat, you guys do it all the time.

    The bailout was the best of the worst deals, replacing the correct way to address the market failure of increasing taxes on the rich, decreasing taxes/increasing benefits for the middle class and lower, and instituting massive infrastructure projects to soak up the unemployed and get the economy moving again. Classic Keynes that has been proven to work in both practice and theory.

    The political malaise of Washington has caused a huge disservice to be performed to the US.

    Of course, that may best for the rest of the world, in the long run (before we are all dead, hopefully)..

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  66. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    By Jove. Now that was a very intelligent comment Luc! :)

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  67. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Where did you gain such knowledge of God, the Universe and Everything may I ask? :)

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  68. Fisiani (1,039 comments) says:

    Reposted here from The Standard

    My experience with that blog is that my posts are usually alleged to have broken some cardinal rule and then hidden from eyes leaving the mistaken belief that I have been outrageous. I fully expected to be given another ban.

    More hysteria from the Left.
    Remember the Wall of Shame that would list the hordes of evil capitalists who would sack workers on day 89 of the 90 day chance to prove yourself law.
    Where is this Wall? It does not exist! It does not exist in reality or in theory.
    Remember the hysteria before every one of the badly needed reforms have been rolled out over the last 4 years. The sky has not fallen in as predicted. The deficit has been cut in half from approx 18 billion to 9 billion. The stimulus package and fiscal restraint of recent years to take the sharp edges off the recession and protect people has been openly acknowledged as the best in the world http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/top-obama-economic-adviser-says-nz-only-country-getting-it-right-bd-130942
    The current hysteria on improving workplace access to teenagers and beneficiaries and improving the lives of beneficiaries by promoting employment growth in the mining, fishing, farming and forestry sectors is equally ridiculous. Working is good for your health. Being on a benefit for some time carries the same health risks as being a 20 day smoker!
    Inflation is down to 0.8% Wage rises are thus outstripping inflation.
    Labour day is a day to celebrate the 8 hour day and a fitting time to acknowledge the fact that a John Key National led government has saved New Zealand from the 2008 inherited destiny of unending deficits and is leading us to the Brighter Future that record numbers voted for in 2011.

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  69. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    “Reposted here from The Standard”

    You will have to turn your keyboard away from the “Dark side of the force” Fisiani! :)

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  70. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Dear Penny,

    Clearly you are “visiting” here from time to time. You must have forgotten to answer my question yesterday, so I will repeat it: “Do you receive some form of benefit payment from the government?”

    Fisiani: I believe the socialists called it “the Roll of Shame”; I recall taunting them about it in the House…when I last looked, it had two names on it, one of them a pharmacist in Johnsonville….

    Anticipating your turning the question on me, the answer is “No”

    Just next time you are whizzing through Pen….Just one word is required by way of response, no diatribe(s) about John Banks; Rodney Hide; me; the Supercity; capitalism; your rights; your electoral record (no, sorry, you wouldn’t refer to that); Don Brash; John Key’s supposed failings……

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  71. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I suspect you should lay out the rules more clearly DG! :)

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  72. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I’m only saying that cause I’m pissed of course! :) :)

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  73. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    So what do you think about the way the US has put into place a legislative framework that eviscerates the constitution, doesn’t allow free speech, allows for indefinite detention without trial, where Homeland Security has just completed a buying program for hundreds of millions of rounds of hollow point ammo. You think that’s OK because “they’d never use it?”

    I am strongly opposed to those changes. I am for free speech without any restrictions, regardless of if it is from the left, right or center.

    I am against any move that increases the power of the State. They have too much of that already.

    Where are you going with the “hollow point ammo” bit ? I want to know more :)

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  74. wat dabney (3,775 comments) says:

    Assume away, Wat, you guys do it all the time.

    Ironically perhaps you then go on to confirm the assumption, that you support the bankers’ bailout.

    It was precisely because inter-bank lenders knew that the state would bail them out that they engaged in reckless but profitable lending in the first place. They knew they were taking a one-way bet, because the left has implemented just the sort of crony government they need whereby any and all special-interest groups get to plunder the rest of us.

    instituting massive infrastructure projects to soak up the unemployed and get the economy moving again. Classic Keynes that has been proven to work in both practice and theory.

    Complete crap, obviously. So-called Keynsianism is just a politician’s excuse to borrow and spend.

    Interesting short paper about Keynsianism:

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj32n3/v32n3-2.pdf

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  75. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    It’s only good on thin-skinned game at close ranges if you are not worried about pelt damage Kea.

    A man that’s after big game should use this: :)

    http://www.winchester.com/Products/components/bullets/centerfire-rifle/Pages/power-point.aspx

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  76. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Johnboy, if your really want to kill millions of people, you don’t use bullets. History records that most effective weapon of mass destruction is socialism.

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  77. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    However of course Kea. Socialism’s most effective weapon was a bullet.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Blokhin.

    :) :)

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  78. Colville (2,272 comments) says:

    I find these do a great job.. http://www.hornady.com/store/SST-bullets/

    The “hundreds of millions of rounds of hollow point” will be all 223 cal to go in their M16’s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M16_rifle#M16A2

    Handy when the zombie apacalypse comes!

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  79. Colville (2,272 comments) says:

    Starvation works pretty well too.

    But you do know why socialists die younger than capitalists?

    Coz they want to.

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  80. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Starvation worked pretty good too Johnboy.

    Here is the legacy of the left. Remember this when ever a lefty posts on KB. This is what they support :

    One of unparalleled devastation in which at least 45 million, and possibly as many as 60 million, men, women and children died in less than five years, and the desperate resorted to cannibalism…

    Villagers caught trying to hide or hoard food were clubbed to death. Ears were lopped off, hair ripped out, people branded with hot irons; they were forced to eat excrement, doused in petrol and set alight.
    Dikotter found evidence of all these punishments for offences as small as digging up a potato. In all, he estimated 2.5 million people were beaten or tortured to death.
    Youth was no excuse. A 12-year-old boy was drowned in a pond like a kitten for stealing food from the communal canteen.
    After a boy took a handful of grains, his father was forced to bury him alive

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017839/Madman-starved-60-million-death-Devastating-book-reveals-Maos-megalomania-turned-China-madhouse.html#ixzz29nyEmDKk
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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  81. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Depends what you are trying to kill Colville.

    Not being a socialist I prefer 65 grains of IMR 4831 behind a 150 grain 7mm Speer for approx 3250 feet per second out of my 7mm Rem Mag.

    Works for me if I can hit the bastards! :)

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  82. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Starvation is cheaper than bullets Kea. Read the history. Pol Pots folk used plastic bag over the head when they ran out of ammo.

    That’s why I like Blackbirds and Magpies. Human beings are turds! :)

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  83. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    It’s only good on thin-skinned game at close ranges if you are not worried about pelt damage Kea.

    Humans are pretty thin-skinned game Johnboy and I don’t think DHS will be too worried about pelt damage. Unless they want to make lampshades of course.

    DHS isn’t only buying ammo, it’s also doing this. And of course the MSM don’t worry about it. No, of course not. I mean if the MSM were really lefties, you’d think they would be, wouldn’t you.

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  84. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I used to meet folk like that in the scrub Reid in the old days (30 yrs ago). Cammo gear. Rag round head. Bandoliers. M16 semiauto. K-bar strapped to leg. Wankers to a man. I have no reason to think that that assessment has changed? :)

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  85. Jimmy Smits (246 comments) says:

    Kefu Ikamanu is jailed for manslaughter after he threw Seini, 2, against a wall and stomped on her.

    Maybe she can pay him sex visits in prison.

    Detective Sergeant Steve Brewer from the police child protection team said he understood how Sela’s faith allowed her to forgive her husband.

    Dun dun dun… I could never have guessed. That’s Christianity for you… Persecute and rage against innocent people who are homosexual, forgive murderers. Exactly what Jesus would have wanted.

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  86. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Bandoliers.

    Did they have a sombrero as well Johnboy? It’s just for me, those two things go together like chocolate and bacon.

    Persecute and rage against innocent people who are homosexual

    Poor Jimmy. Still deluded are we? The trip to the sanitorium didn’t work then?

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  87. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    It’s too much to ask: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/262929-obama-under-pressure-to-spell-out-his-agenda-for-a-second-term

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  88. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Different strokes for different folks in Godszone Jimmy. I’d have given the turd a bullet in the ear!

    We are fucked! :)

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  89. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Love that tune Reid: :)

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  90. KH (695 comments) says:

    Kohanga Reo. The real reason they are failing is that parents are avoiding them in droves. Many, despite taking taxpayer money were simply not there, did not even operate in any way. Is it a surprise parents did not want to know. ?

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  91. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Keep paying KH. You owe it bro. It’s in the fuckin treaty! :)

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  92. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Good on Christine rankin for speaking out about the child killer. About time, she’s done bugger nothing since national gave her the gravy train children’s commission job. She went to the conservative convention but.

    However I digress. Lets spell it or for people. He got off with only six years because of the colour of his skin.

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  93. tom hunter (4,893 comments) says:

    The nuance surrounding “sending Detroit broke” is that Chapter 7 bankruptcy, the restructuring procedure, was unavailable to GM at the time, so any bankruptcy as recommended by Romney would have led to immediate liquidation.

    If Luc is going to be so boring as to simply re-blurt his opinions – in this case taken directly from that trustworthy source, the NYT, then I may as well just repeat what I said in response – the quotes are from Luc’s NYT article,

    the financial markets had ground to a halt. It was November 2008, and there was little available liquidity for anyone seeking financing. There were certainly no financial institutions — not even Bain Capital, Mr. Romney’s private equity firm — looking to invest to the tune of the $80 billion the car companies needed at the time.

    The financial markets ground to a halt in mid-September and were unfrozen very quickly by TARP, so by November they were functioning again – which does not mean they were ready to piss money away again. In any case GM and Chrysler had been asking about this for months. And it was not an “investment”; the $80 billion was a straight out cover of the debts the companies had built up. But no company on the verge of bankruptcy is ever going to get that, that’s actually the whole point, which apparently Mr Peters and Luc don’t understand.

    No private companies would come to the industry’s aid, and the only path through bankruptcy would have been Chapter 7 liquidation, not the more orderly Chapter 11 reorganization that the company ultimately followed, people inside and outside the car companies have said.

    “people have said” – uh huh. We’re long past the day when anybody would trust an NYT writer with that line.

    But to repeat my first point, nobody – aside from idiot governments – will ever simply cover, at 100 cents on the dollar, the debts of a company nearing bankruptcy, so this whole line about how No private companies would come to the industry’s aid, does not automatically mean that Chapter 7 liquidation would happen.

    The whole idea of Chapter 11 is to get into it, get the creditor claims put on hold and then see what can be done – including negotiations over all those debts – not to wipe the debts and then go into Chapter 11, which is what happened here. That simply makes the whole thing a mere legal formality rather than the re-structuring it was intended to be.

    And that’s why – according to Forbes magazine which, though biased in favour of capitalism, still has a credible reputation – GM is heading towards bankruptcy once again.

    Which brings me to the last of Peter’s points:

    In fact, the task force asked Bain if it was interested in investing in General Motors’ European operations, according to one person with direct knowledge of the discussions.

    Bain declined, this person said, speaking anonymously to discuss private negotiations.”

    Well of course they declined. As I said – only governments are (and were) stupid enough to do that, and the result is that they likely will have to do it all over again.

    Now it may be that GM cannot be saved. Perhaps they will have to be liquidated. But in that case it’s better to find out in 2008 than 2013 or 2014, after countless more billions are poured down the rathole.

    But what’s the point of me trying to explain this to someone like Luc Hansen or most other lefties – people who still think that Cullen’s purchase of Kiwirail was the correct thing to do. Talk about missing the bigger picture.

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  94. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Fala are you taking the piss? The national party saving us from the evil socialist empire in 2008? Ha ha ha, great laugh.

    You can’t be Sam lotu iiga cos you’ve got a brain but sometimes I wonder.

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  95. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    But DG, ‘Just next time you are whizzing through Pen’, she DOESN’T KNOW YOU FROM A BAR OF SOAP!!! By her own words, in response to a question I posed to her (which, BTW, remains unanswered), until she ‘KNOWS YOU’ (whatever THAT phrase may mean), she will never (despite being ‘an advocate for openness and transparency’) accept your invitation to answer.

    Thought you might like to know. . .

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  96. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7843427/Auckland-airport-bomb-scare

    So this guy finds either an artillery round or a grenade while diving in Tahiti but instead of swimming away and telling someone later on, he picks it up (dumb thing #1) and brings it back to the boat (dumb thing #2) then presumably leaves it in his hotel room (dumb thing #3) then puts it in his luggage (dumb thing #4) before boarding a plane with his luggage (massive dumb thing #5) and flying back to NZ, where he finally declares it to Customs (minor clever thing #1).

    I mean, crikey.

    Er.

    Perhaps he hasn’t heard of the war on terror and all that might entail, misunderstanding-wise, were his luggage to be, I dunno, x-rayed? at Tahiti International and his “souvenir” discovered. Perhaps he was looking forward to being water-boarded because he’d misunderstood what it meant when he vaguely heard about it ages ago sometime between the sports news and the latest thrilling episode of his fav soap, and he thought it meant he’d get a thrilling ride on a waterslide or something. Perhaps that’s what he was thinking, as he put the military ordinance into his bag, back in his hotel room.

    One wonders what’s going to happen the Head of Security at Tahiti International or perhaps, we already know. He or she will probably explain their job is to “facilitate” smooth passenger transit lest Tahiti doesn’t get quite so many tourists coming through with happy memories of their holiday of a lifetime and their French boss will give a Gallic shrug and they’ll all have a jolly good laugh.

    Meanwhile, the idiot who caused it all is probably lurking somewhere in the anatomy of NZ, planning his next overseas adventure. He’s the reason they banned fireworks and why we’re not allowed to drive at 160 kph on the open road, you know. He’s one of the few who spoil it for the many. I mean, because of him, no-one else is ever going to be able to take military explosives through Tahiti International anymore, and the world is a poorer place thereby.

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  97. Yvette (2,823 comments) says:

    About $ 200 million is spent on Te Reo each year.
    I have asked people who teach the language and they haven’t any idea as to what that amount of money is spent on.
    Finding out would possibly be some small clue as to why it is failing, or what not to fund.

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  98. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    “I have asked people who teach the language and they haven’t any idea as to what that amount of money is spent on.”

    Saving us from the oft threatened civil war perhaps Yvette? :)

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  99. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    tom if you’d bother to click Luc’s link you’d have realised the issue is NOT about GM at all, it’s about a subsidiary not called Delphi which manufactures parts, which Romney and his hedge-fund mates took investments in, then took the bailout funds, then closed down 28 out of the 29 factories, offshored it to China, put 25,000 people out of work and relocated the HO of the company from Michigan to the island of Jersey (you know, the tax-haven off the coast of France).

    That’s the issue, and this is the guy whose running for Pres. Patriotic, isn’t he. I’m no supporter of Obama or the left as you know. As I keep saying, both sides are bad. But if you’re going to address a point someone else made, then you should really be accurate and not attempt blatant disinformation. That’s verging into philu territory.

    Saving us from the oft threatened civil war perhaps Yvette?

    No the reason why there aren’t any schools is because they’re teaching all the activists first, so they can speak Te Reo and plan the downfall of the hated pakeha on the bus, without anyone else understanding what they’re saying. Isn’t it fiendish.

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  100. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Some of us of course are keen on the war! :)

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  101. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    It’s the fucking endless threatening of the war that really pisses us all off! :)

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  102. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Particularly when you paint your silly face stupid looking and dance around about the war! :)

    While still claiming the Pakeha benefits of course! :)

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  103. Yvette (2,823 comments) says:

    Reid, like WINDTALKERS – I always thought it was a bloody big mistake letting that movie into the country
    However so few adults are fluent in Maori I feel that aspect of te reo is not a worry

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  104. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    And that’s the mystery Johnboy. For normally with Maori and aggression it’s either full on or full off. Normally they don’t fuck around. Maybe what we pakeha should do is fund special pakeha-only classes in face-painting and war-dancing for the men and poi twirling for the ladies, specifically so that we can get better than they are at those things through our superior numbers and compete at Kapa Haka and similar events and sweep the floor. If Maori object, why that’s discwimination and we’ll just phone Joris, so there.

    I’m pretty sure that would bring on a war.

    Exactly like WINDTALKERS Yvette. They’re very clever aren’t they… :)

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  105. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Reid and Yvette are noted as anti-murri folks when the great renaissance begins! :)

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  106. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Is that dork Colin Ansell of the National Front
    any relation related to the other Ansell dork?

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  107. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    You can dance as much as much you like to the jiggaboo beat Reid. I have only got excited in that that respect when the combined pipes and drums of the 57th Highland Battalion have moved my blood! :)

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  108. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Would that be Ansell Condoms PEB? :)

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  109. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    I wonder what Maori think, spiritually, when they turn on the tap and fill it with water and then drink it?

    Does their mana rush through them like sand through an hourglass, or like someone walking over their grave?

    Either way, it would be pretty good being Maori wouldn’t it, if either of those things happened and one of them surely must, if they really truly actually do own the water. I mean if it doesn’t, what’s the point? And if it does, how come so many Maori seem to like drugs? That’s another enigma wrapped in a mystery entwined in a riddle with a big question mark on the Chinese Puzzle Box which it’s delivered in.

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  110. Longknives (4,764 comments) says:

    Socialist Aoteroa are the biggest Anti Semites in New Zealand! (Think protests outside tennis centre) Anyone else smell a rat??

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7843357/Activists-challenge-intolerance

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  111. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    It’s even more of a wonder when they head down to El Cheapo to buy the cussie bro wheels Reid.

    How do they reconcile their spiritual beliefs with the cheap prices for a Japper crapper that can take the whole whanau to the marae even if it’s called a Bongo Wagon?

    Mysteries, mysteries! :)

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  112. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    DHS isn’t only buying ammo, it’s also doing this. And of course the MSM don’t worry about it. No, of course not. I mean if the MSM were really lefties, you’d think they would be, wouldn’t you.

    The MSM are lefties and that is why they do not report these things. It would make their man Obama look bad. In order to support his presidency the media will either misrepresent the facts, or fail to report on them altogether. Also lefties are really big on a heavily armed state, to enforce their ideology.

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  113. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Pauleastbay really has a flea in his arse over John Ansell..I wonder why…is PEB a mouldy/murri ?

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  114. tom hunter (4,893 comments) says:

    “instituting massive infrastructure projects to soak up the unemployed and get the economy moving again. Classic Keynes that has been proven to work in both practice and theory.”

    As Wat says – complete crap. But I’ll add a bit more on this – which again is exactly what I said to Luc the last time he pushed this nonsense

    … the Chinese “Stimulus”, which was one on the scale that Krugman desired – $US 586 billion in an economy only one third as large as the US. The equivalent of a $1.7 trillion stimulus in the USA. The result was simply a “sugar rush” of spending on ghost cities and bucket-loads of other new “infrastructure” that simply hiked up the prices of steel, iron, coal, cement and a thousand other commodities – which are all now going through the floor – and have left nothing but structures not being used.

    That’s because spending means nothing unless it actually creates a permanent stream of wealth, which is what real “investment” does. But with their manic focus on aggregate demand the Keynesians have never been able to see this. Spending is all that matters, so if it drops it must be replaced, and if the private sector won’t do it then the government must.

    Aside from the recent failed experiments of China and the USA, there’s also the classic 1970’s period that coined the term “stagflation”. This had never been thought possible by Keynesians and it gave the wider community of economists their first inklings that the whole government-spending-fixes-recessions theory might not work as claimed.

    But perhaps Luc was in a coma during that decade.

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  115. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Kevin et.al: The child killer who got 6.5 years will be out in less than three…then deported to Tonga where everyone will forgive him…

    Incidentally, I was raving about this in the car, with my 11 year old daughter – who happens to be half Tongan….she said “Dad, how could this guy throw his baby against the wall and then the Judge says it’s a one off?” Out of the mouths of babes as they say….

    With a great deal of effort, I can just stretch to death from throwing against the wall being manslaughter…but the stomp as well?

    Johnboy: You’re not driving are you mate? I tell, you …getting disqaulified in the country is no picnic….as well as drink driving being a very bad idea of course….

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  116. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    OUTRAGE: Socialists Aotearoa spokesman Joe Carolan speaks against the racial desecration of Jewish graves at the Karangahape Rd Cemetery.

    Protesters at a desecrated Jewish graveyard have issued a challenge against far right wing movement National Front – saying they will never be welcome in Auckland.

    The commie “Socialist Aotearoa” chap should look up what NAZI means. (German Socialist Workers Party !) Of course Hitler and the NAZI were no where near as bad as Stalin, Mao and many others. More people died in Socialist China than the entire death toll of WWII, and that was during PEACE TIME. Hitler was not “far right” but a socialist through and through. Its one of the biggest con-jobs in history to portray him as right wing. Look at his policies, its cut and paste for the Maori party.

    Its about time the Jews respected the fact the most of the 74 million people who died were not Jewish. If you want to break it down by religion, most were christians.

    [DPF: Ummn I don't even know what point you are trying to make, but can I suggest you stop while you are not in trouble]

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  117. Yvette (2,823 comments) says:

    Reid, both you and Johnboy are at least 75% water – worry about that

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  118. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Never in my 48 years of driving manically have I lost it for the piss DG.

    Should have a couple of times but was lucky! :)

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  119. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Also lefties are really big on a heavily armed state, to enforce their ideology.

    Lefties are only big on a heavily armed state Kea, when it involves the USSR. They really truly actually seem to hate all the other heavily armed states, like the US, Israel, UK, France, etc etc etc.

    Look at Hulun for example. I may be wrong, but I think she is, or she pretended to be anyway, a real actual lefty. And guess what she did when she was in power? She de-fanged the military by firstly being a prime-mover behind the anti-nuke mentalism which screwed our international defence relationships and then when she got be PM one of her very first actions was to remove the strike fighters and then, while camouflaging herself to the useless moron idiots as caring for veterens, proceeded to blow almost the entire capital expenditure for defence on non-weapons, like LAV transports. Why the fuck do you think she bought so many?

    Of course none of this matters because politics isn’t played out on left or right lines anyway, only sheeple think it is. But in terms of the facade they maintain, if the media in the US really were lefties, why don’t they expose the Israeli influence on US politics for example. You’d think if they were lefties, they’d do this, but they don’t, do they. And no-one informed can deny it’s there, it’s obvious and it always has been. It’s like a giant massive elephant dumping tons of shit on the Congress every single year it sits, and yet, somehow, for some mytewious weason, not one “lefty” publication ever never not once mentions it, does it. That proves the point Kea and if you care to argue, then simply google” “isreali influence us politics” and you’ll find what everyone informed already knows.

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  120. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    My water is at least 50% alcohol Yvette so I am only 37.5% water! :)

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  121. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Reid, the USA has the worlds biggest Jewish population. They have a massive influence on politics, no argument there. Billions of US tax dollars are gifted to Israel. Why? I have no idea…

    The reason it is not reported by the MSM is not because they are not bias to the left, but that Jewish folk influence the media and cry anti Semitic and start banging on about WWII. ( You know the war where 3 million Jews died and 74 million others)

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  122. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Your on to it Reid.

    We should have killed David Lange and used his life insurance policy to buy a small Strategic Nuclear Weapon.

    Even the fucking Aussies would respect us now if we had! :)

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  123. David Garrett (7,318 comments) says:

    Jeez Johnboy, you are an ancient bastard! And you’ve mastered the interweb too…

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  124. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Mastered? Tell me more DG? :)

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  125. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    They used to get you to walk a straight line..one foot in front of the other.

    Bend down and pick up a coin with your feet together.

    Shut your eyes and touch the tip of your nose. In the good old days.

    Amazing what a drunk could do when the chips were down! :)

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  126. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Tom’s determination to refuse to recognise the actual nature of the current crisis of market malfunction, financial crisis as oppose to cyclical recessions, including the close (for NZ; the actuality for the US and elsewhere) proximity of the zero lower bound, coupled with his stunning ability to introduce complete red herrings (e.g. the Chinese economic expansion that was driven by internal politics rather than systemic failure) leads to a steadfast refusal to understand that, this time it really is different.

    All this makes Tom and his ilk part of the problem, not the solution.

    He should stick to propagandizing on Israel.

    Kea

    The answer to your question of why the US sends billions to Israel is simple, oil. Oil. Oil.

    And over time the propaganda machine required to justify this obscene largesse has developed a perpetual motion reinforcement whereby it is confused with an imagined filial link with that shitty piece of dirt. A afct not lost on Israel’s cynical and criminal lruling elites.

    Wat Dabney

    Cato Institute, really? That is sick puppy stuff.

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  127. DJP6-25 (1,388 comments) says:

    tom hunter 12:09 pm. I remember that day. I was cold calling on the phone to get appointments to try and sell insurance. Someone asked, if I’d heard the news. I said no. He suggested I watch the 6 o’clock news.

    It wasn’t a good time to be selling insurance.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  128. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Luc, again, tries to do his failing impression of an intelligent man.

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  129. Yvette (2,823 comments) says:

    Other people’s oil

    “Let me tell you something that we Israelis have against Moses. He took us 40 years through the desert in order to bring us to the one spot in the Middle East that has no oil! ” – Golda Meir

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  130. DJP6-25 (1,388 comments) says:

    Kea 4;10. I agree. Socialisim is the worst set of man made disasters ever.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  131. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    But Golda was a fuckwit Yvette. The Jews took us from talking about whatever atoms were to imploding them either by fission or eventually fusion. Who needs oil when you have brains like that?

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  132. nasska (11,579 comments) says:

    Those Israelis are cunning bastards!

    Ref:

    http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?tid=8157

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  133. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    True nasska. There weren’t many Gentile names associated with the Manhattan Project.

    Apart from the MP’s etc…. :)

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  134. nasska (11,579 comments) says:

    Rangi was from the lower valley & he decided he wanted to get married to his sweetheart. So, while enjoying some pork bones & puha for dinner one evening, Rangi brought up the subject with his Mum & Dad. “Rangi, you can’t get married yet” insisted Mum. “You’re the baby of the family”. “But Mum” Rangi protested “I just had my 38th birthday last week”. “We know that, Rangi” Dad chimed “but your Mum and me think you should put off getting married until after you get your NCEA”.

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  135. tom hunter (4,893 comments) says:

    All this makes Tom and his ilk part of the problem, not the solution.

    That sounds like all those US lefties bitching about poor Obama not being able to do anything because of the nasty Republican’s saying “No” – when he had two years of solid majority control of the Senate and Congress to do whatever he wanted.

    In other words, I’ve not seen any of my solutions applied but those of Luc Hansen and his ilk: governments pissing ever-greater amounts of money up against the wall. And all they can do is moan about how even more should be spent to get things going – classic Keynesianism.

    … including the close (for NZ; the actuality for the US and elsewhere) proximity of the zero lower bound,

    I’m sure you’ll be able to expand on that and explain what it means, because it’s just gobblydegook at present.

    … introduce complete red herrings (e.g. the Chinese economic expansion that was driven by internal politics rather than systemic failure)

    China suffered a huge slow-down in economic growth as a result of the GFC. Every country in the world could have defined the response to their recessions as “internal politics”, rendering the term meaningless. The decision to pour a huge fiscal stimulus into the economy was a pure Keynesian solution: nothing “red herring” about it.

    refuse to recognise the actual nature of the current crisis of market malfunction, financial crisis as oppose to cyclical recessions,

    this time it really is different.

    Funnily enough it’s the non-Keynesians arguing that this time it’s really different – in the sense that years of Keynesian solutions have produced $16 trillion in debt for the US alone, which is either going to have to be paid back or written off. We simply cannot afford to continue to spend as Western governments are doing, irrespective of the reason. $5 trillion of borrowing and spending purchased less than half-a-trillion dollars of additional real GDP – that’s a multiplier of 0.1!!

    Financial crises are sharp but brief and are resolved by adding liquidity (lender of last resort and so forth) and liquidation of all the mal-investments that built up during the crazy boom times. Where such a crisis turns into recession or depression is where one finds the government trying to save the market from itself. So we had huge financial crises in 1920 (stockmarket drop greater than 1929) and 1987 – neither of which led to a Great Recession, let alone a Great Depression. In both cases the government let the market work things out – which certainly involved companies going belly up and unemployment rising, but which both corrected quickly.

    But when the government decides to do more than keep the market working – because it thinks it’s working “wrong” – that’s when things come unstuck. That’s what happened in the 1930’s – the exact opposite of the myths that Luc believes (and caused by both Hoover and FDR doing the same “big government” things) – and it’s what’s been happening in the last few years. And just like Hoover-FDR, these things were started by Bush and ramped up by Obama.

    And along those lines I must be off now to spend, spend, spend on consumer items – food and drink as it happens, it being Saturday night and all. Who says I’m not a Keynesian!

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  136. gander (91 comments) says:

    Kea (311) Says:
    October 20th, 2012 at 6:59 pm
    Reid, the USA has the worlds biggest Jewish population. They have a massive influence on politics, no argument there. Billions of . . . but that Jewish folk influence the media and cry anti Semitic and start banging on about WWII. ( You know the war where 3 million Jews died and 74 million others)

    3 million Jews and . . .

    Did you hit the wrong key on your phone or are you a Holocaust half- denier?

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  137. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Most of the others were Slavs gander. They don’t count.

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  138. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Deport the poor little deprived blameless babe. Yea right. Has Bio Obrien who killed the Indian grandfather and only got 3 years been deported?

    Did the freak get a strike for killing the toddler ?

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  139. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Great Sat night vid on the SR-71.

    Possibly Kea was commenting on the fanatical constantly wheeled-out hysteria that surrounds the Jewish component of the tragedy gander whilst the same fanatical hysteria is totally silent: i.e. never ever wheeled out, when it comes to discussing the rest of the casualties. Isn’t that peculiar, or when you look at who owns the media, maybe it’s not.

    Some people pretend not to notice that even happens, but those people are morons, aren’t they gander. Of course they are. But it does happen doesn’t it. So draw your own conclusions. And if your tummy hurts, suck it up. The truth is worth it.

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  140. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Fascinating how they traversed the engines from turbojet to ramjet Reid.

    What a great aircraft. We shall never see it’s like again.

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  141. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Isn’t that peculiar, or when you look at who owns the media, maybe it’s not.

    You have to be slightly more clear Reid. So you’re saying that you believe that it was far fewer than 6m Jews killed during the holocaust, but the 6m is the ‘received wisdom’ because Jews control the media?

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  142. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Tell you what gander, lets just round it up to 6 or maybe 10 million. Does that figure include the millions of Eastern Europeans who suffered an identical fate, or only the “Jews”

    What is your point anyway?

    More people than that died in the Ukraine in a single year. Thanks to our mates the socialists. The Holocaust was a great evil, but it is not even remotely close to being the greatest one in modern times.

    And no, I am not anti Jewish. I am an atheist and regard all religions as equally worthless. I actually wonder what all the fuss over the Jews is about. Israel is another matter.

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  143. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    You’re not related to David Irving, are you?

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  144. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Here it was. Posing for the crowds, not doing what it did best. Mach 3 at 80,000 feet!

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  145. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    What a great aircraft. We shall never see it’s like again.

    No, we won’t. I saw it in Boeing’s Aeronautical Museum in Seattle and it’s not that big, but the wings are like knives, literally. Apparently those pointy cones that come out the front of the engines deflect the air inside the engine in a way that propels the aircraft forward and this is how they attain such speed with such economy. Just one example of the design’s brilliance.

    So you’re saying that you believe that it was far fewer than 6m Jews killed during the holocaust, but the 6m is the ‘received wisdom’ because Jews control the media?

    I don’t know the numbers cos I haven’t studied them bhudson but no, I’m not saying that. What I’m saying is, isn’t it interesting and telling that whenever the holocaust is discussed, the only repeat only casualty figures who are ever discussed, are the Jewish casualty figures, and not all the others who were killed alongside of them, and why might that be, for that is in fact what happens, isn’t it, bhudson. Yes, it is. The fact you seem to hallucinate that in raising that plain simple obvious factually proven and evident point that thereby I might be minimising the Jewish casualty figures, speaks volumes for where your particular tummy might be at mate, re: objectivity and facts vs propaganda-inspired hysteria, over this historical tragedy for ALL of humanity, not just Jews.

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  146. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Things are way worse in some European States Reid. You get locked up for even questioning the Jewish re-construction of events.

    I am always frustrated by the Holocaust being held up as the worlds greatest evil. People said the world would never let such a thing happen again…. but it did let it happen again, only far far worse under socialist regimes. It is continuing on today in the living hell of North Korea.

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  147. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    The cones are to do with the pressure wave at the engine intakes that builds up in the transition from low speed flight to high speed flight Reid. They move in and out to adjust to this so that the engines get a suitable air pressure to operate in.

    The subtlety of the J58 engines was that they could operate as a turbojet at lower airspeed and as a ramjet at higher airspeed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratt_%26_Whitney_J58

    For those who are interested:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SR-71_Blackbird

    The aircraft was a brilliant machine and the designer Kelly Johnson was genius.

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  148. gander (91 comments) says:

    >Kea (312) Says:
    >October 20th, 2012 at 8:51 pm
    >Tell you what gander, lets just round it up to 6 or maybe 10 million. Does that figure include the millions of Eastern Europeans >suffered an identical fate, or only the “Jews”

    Let’s not “round it up”. The Nazis kept good records. So where did you get your “3 million”?

    That does not include the millions of non Jewish Eastern (and Western) Europeans who ended up equally dead.

    >What is your point . The Holocaust was a great evil, but it is not even remotely close to being the greatest one in modern times.

    Perhaps not. I won’t get into an evil-ranking contest with you.

    As the Nazis made a determined effort to exterminate the Jewish population of Europe, and to a great extent succeeded, Jewish people tend to be a wee bit sensitive about the Holocaust.

    >And no, I am not anti Jewish.

    Excuse me while I wipe the coffee off my screen.

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  149. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    You’re not related to David Irving, are you?

    No.

    Your not related to chairman Mao are you?

    Its amusing how this subject drags out the nutters. Can you think of any other subject where people who question the “official” version are labeled “deniers” and thrown in Jail, prevented from travelling and censored and misrepresented by an hysterical MSM ?

    I guess they have to keep the hype up to justify one the biggest injustices in modern history, the state of Israel. There is no justifiable reason to give one single religious group exclusive domain in that area. They should have been left to work things out among themselves, like they have for centuries. Having said that, Israel is there now and can not be un-invented. The Muslim world needs to deal with Israel more constructively. I would rather have Israel living next door to me, than Hamas.

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  150. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    liarbors a joke (154) Says:
    October 20th, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    Pauleastbay really has a flea in his arse over John Ansell..I wonder why…is PEB a mouldy/murri ?

    Don’t know but he certainly has got John wrong.

    http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2012/10/20/we-spend-1-billion-on-kohanga-reo-and-waitangi-tribunal-demands-an-apology/

    http://johnansell.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/rude-remmers-rotarians-reluctantly-do-right-thing-sort-of/

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  151. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    DG, just for you and johnboy.

    I would like to share an experience with you about drinking and driving. As you well know, some of us have been lucky not
    to have had brushes with the authorities on our way home from the various social sessions over the years. A couple of nights ago, I was out for a few drinks with some friends and had a few too many beers and then topped it off with a margarita. Not a good idea. Knowing full well I was at least slightly over the limit, I did something I’ve never done before: I took a taxi home. Sure enough I passed a police road block but because it was a taxi, they waved it past. I arrived home safely without incident, which was a real surprise.

    I have never driven a taxi before and am not sure where I got it.

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  152. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    gander, I am not anti jewish, I am anti lies and propaganda. Clearly your values are different.

    Since your so up with the “official” figures of the holocaust, how about telling KB readers the figure for the number of non-Jews who suffered an identical fate?

    Or are you a “Holocaust Denier” about those figures?

    Take your pick …..

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  153. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I to have also noted V2 that PEB has a certain sensitivity in these ethnic matters.

    Maybe Mrs. PEB is a hori if he isn’t.

    We can but wait for honest enlightenment regarding this question! :)

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  154. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    An elderly golfer comes in after a good round of golf at the new course and heads straight to the bar/restaurant area of the club house.

    As he passes through the swinging doors, he spots a sign hanging over the bar that reads:

    COLD BEER: $5.00
    HAMBURGER: $10.00
    CHEESEBURGER: $15.50
    CHICKEN SANDWICH : $18.50
    HAND JOB: $250.00

    Checking his wallet to be sure he has the necessary money, the old golfer walks up to the bar and beckons to the exceptionally attractive female bartender who is serving drinks to a couple of sun-wrinkled golfers.
    She glides down behind the bar to the old golfer.

    “Yes?” she inquires with a wide, knowing smile. “May I help you sir?”

    The old golfer leans over the bar and whispers, “I was wondering young lady, are you the one who gives the hand-jobs around here?”

    She looks into his wrinkled eyes and with a wide smile purrs, “Yes sir, I sure am.”

    The old golfer leans in even closer and into her left ear says softly, “Well then, be sure to wash your hands properly, because I want a cheeseburger.”

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  155. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I hope you waved out the window of the stolen Taxi V2 and yelled “Good work lads, deal to those drunkin fucks”. Or similar! :)

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  156. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    I am always frustrated by the Holocaust being held up as the worlds greatest evil. People said the world would never let such a thing happen again…. but it did let it happen again, only far far worse under socialist regimes. It is continuing on today in the living hell of North Korea.

    This is how the world works Kea. Propaganda applies not just in the MSM but also in the education system and this creates the “collective wisdom” which does not grow up by the free interaction of free people but by people who write the history books. Why for example do you think very few people have even heard of Tesla let alone know what he did, whereas everyone in the west knows about Edison and probably studied him in school? Just another example of what happens. You seem more educated than many, I hope you don’t think it condescending if I say: well done. It’s not easy to look straight through the conventional bullshit, is it.

    The aircraft was a brilliant machine and the designer Kelly Johnson was genius.

    In every way. One of the things in that link I gave above was he put the designers together with the production machinists, which is something necessary but often missed in many businesses even today. How often for example do we see a project undertaken where the designers throw the results of their “wisdom” over the fence only to have the production people say, “that’s mental and it won’t work?” Often they undertake token feedback. Rarely do they work together from day one. Normally the result is a sub-optimal implementation of a product that could have been so much better, had exactly the same money been spent but in a wiser way.

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  157. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    HMM, quite a contrarian he is sometimes johnboy. One minute up in arms over Iti and the next complaining about John Ansels efforts to rid NZ of the rort that is the Waitangi Greivance Dept. complete with sleeze bags, lawyers (ah the same), and slimball elite.

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  158. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Reid,

    I am not seeing any images, so fairly certain I am not hallucinating.

    As gander points out, the 6m figure is borne of the meticulous record keeping of the Germans. Perhaps those deaths have gained more prominence due to the very clear attempt at genocide by the Nazis – it was an extremely well organized and systematic attempt to expunge Europe of Jews.

    The only cognitive dissonance, Reid, is that howling in your head as the reality of the world attempts in vain to break through the bizarre theories of secret societies and conspiracies you are determined to believe are true

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  159. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    Medical Alert
    Remember this the next time you have major surgery and need a blood transfusion. This is good to know….
    MEDICAL RESEARCH
    Description: 839E2885ADE94E639F53516652E6F1E9@raymoore1
    Australian Medical Association researchers have found
    that patients needing blood transfusions may benefit
    from receiving chicken blood rather than human blood.

    It tends to make the men cocky and the women lay better.

    Just thought you’d like to know…..

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  160. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    Quote du Jour: “Say what you will about the Ten Commandments,

    you must always come back to the pleasant fact that there are only ten of
    them.” H. L. Mencken.

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  161. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Well I am off to bed about now and hoping that my little speckled friend “Fill”, the magpie will be there for me tomorrow.

    He really is a lovely little chap and only taps, with his beak, on the ranchslider if I am really slow with the handouts! :)

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  162. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    how about telling KB readers the figure for the number of non-Jews who suffered an identical fate?

    Kea, it depends on the classification of Holocaust – it would appear to range from systematic attempt to wipe out a specific race, through to anyone who died either directly or indirectly as a result of Nazi aggression.

    The range I have seen (which includes the 6m Jews) is 11m-17m.

    The only evidence for a systematic process to wipe out an entire people is that of the Jews. Certainly homosexuals and gypsies were persecuted, however there seems to be a distinction between forced labour and extermination – with the ‘Jewish problem’ shifting from forced labour to extermination as the ‘final solution.’

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  163. gander (91 comments) says:

    >Kea (315) Says:
    >October 20th, 2012 at 9:33 pm
    >gander, I am not anti jewish, I am anti lies and propaganda. Clearly your values are different.

    I’m anti-lies-and-propaganda.

    I’m curious where you got your figure of “3 million”.

    >Since your so up with the “official” figures of the holocaust, how about telling KB readers the figure for the number of non-Jews >who suffered an identical fate?

    I’ve not claimed to be “up with the ‘official’ figures of the Holocaust. I know that many millions – tens of millions – of Europeans were killed.

    >Or are you a “Holocaust Denier” about those figures?

    >Take your pick …..

    No, thank you. I see where you’re coming from.

    Please go back there.

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  164. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    The only cognitive dissonance, Reid, is that howling in your head as the reality of the world attempts in vain to break through the bizarre theories of secret societies and conspiracies you are determined to believe are true

    How do you know what I think and believe bhudson? Have I ever bothered to explain to anyone here who and what causes and designs what happens? No, I haven’t. So anything you might have inferred I have to believe from the positions I take is your hallucination, not mine, isn’t it.

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  165. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    As gander points out, the 6m figure is borne of the meticulous record keeping of the Germans.

    Yes I accept that.

    Since you can pull that figure out from memory, you must surely be able to tell me how many non-Jewish people suffered an identical fate?

    I mean you must know that figure, right bhudson? Like you said the Germans kept meticulous records. They knew how many Slavs, Homos, Gypsies etc were killed.

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  166. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Kea,

    I answered that above

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  167. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    So neither gander or bhudson can tell KB readers how many non-Jewish people suffered an identical fate in the NAZI death camps. This in spite of the “meticulous records” the Germans kept.

    bhudson goes a step further and minimises the horror suffered by those people, because they were not trying to wipe them out !

    I really can not add to that. You have made my point for me beautifully.

    [DPF: Most historians say 6 million Jews died in the Holocaust, and around that many non Jews died in the concentration camps also.

    Only three groups of people were specifically targeted for extermination - Jews, gypsies and the handicapped. Many others were killed, but it was not a systematic attempt to wide that group out. 2-3 millions Soviet POWs were killed, which is terrible and inhumane. But again there is a difference between killing POWs, and ethnic genocide.

    Of the three groups that were targeted for extermination around 250,000 disabled were killed and the number of gypsies varies massively in estimates - but at least 200,000.

    While all the exterminations were manifestly evil, I and many others do think the targeting of the Jews was unique. Unlike gypsies who had always been pretty much unintegrated, Jews had been part of cities and towns for centuries - often living peacefully there. In Vienna they were over 90% of the doctors and lawyers. They were not targeted on the basis of their relgious beliefs, but their bloodlines. Laws were passed defining how many parts Jewish your bloodline had to be, so you could be exterminated.

    Again, this takes nothing away from the horrors done to the gypsies and disabled, But if you look at the history books, only Jews were targeted for extermination in every part of the Nazi Empire. The targeting of gypsies was variable.]

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  168. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    How do you know what I think and believe bhudson?

    Because you tell us Reid. All the time:

    – the illuminati (you also claimed that HRH QEII is the head thereof)
    – that the US govt had a hand to play in the execution of the 9/11 events – specifically you don’t accept that terrorists flew aircraft into the twin towers or the pentagon
    – the Syrian unrest and uprisings are actually artificially orchestrated by the US to create justification for military action against Iran
    – that the commercial benefits to US companies flowing from Iraq are also linked to the illuminati
    – that rense.com is some sort of source of truth

    I could probably google a few more examples, but for no real gain. Nor am I motivated to keep a scrap book.

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  169. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    The range I have seen (which includes the 6m Jews) is 11m-17m

    So bhudson, you have now gone from a Holocaust death toll of 6m to 17m !

    Wow. Where did you source that figure of seventeen million ?

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  170. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    bhudson goes a step further and minimises the horror suffered by those people, because they were not trying to wipe them out

    Kea, I did no such thing. Keep your delusions to yourself

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  171. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Whatever the Germans killed Uncle Bloody Joe outdid by a factor of four.

    It’s just that being a fucking Commie he gets an easy ride as opposed to a fucking Fascist. Also he was on our side for a while.

    Also his methods of slaughter were not as quite industrialised as were the Germans methods.

    He used mainly bullets in the head as opposed to Zyklon B and big holes in the ground as opposed to crematoria.

    Don’t let any of this get in the way of a good story of course! :)

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  172. Yvette (2,823 comments) says:

    Roughly five million non-Jews, of that three million being Poles. Added to Jews, just under eleven million altogether

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  173. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Yeah you clearly did attempt to minimise the Holocaust deaths of non-Jewish people. Your post is open to no other interpretation.

    And it is noted you were unable to answer how many non-Jewish were killed.

    You have no idea at all. This in spite of the “meticulous” records you quoted. You clearly don’t give a shit.

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  174. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    No Kea. Only in your little mind.

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  175. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Whatever the Germans killed Uncle Bloody Joe outdid by a factor of four.

    It’s just that being a fucking Commie he gets an easy ride as opposed to a fucking Fascist. Also he was on our side for a while.

    Also his methods of slaughter were not as quite industrialised as were the Germans methods

    The German Socialists based their camps on ones used by the Russian Socialists, but with German efficiency and attention to detail.

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  176. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Indeed Yvette. Our wartime ally Russia topped that tally by three or four. That was OK though. Uncle Joe was on our side.

    He was a fucking good bloke. That’s why we sent the escaped POW’s back to meet him! :)

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  177. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Because you tell us Reid. All the time:
    1- the illuminati (you also claimed that HRH QEII is the head thereof)
    2- that the US govt had a hand to play in the execution of the 9/11 events – specifically you don’t accept that terrorists flew aircraft into the twin towers or the pentagon
    3- the Syrian unrest and uprisings are actually artificially orchestrated by the US to create justification for military action against Iran
    4- that the commercial benefits to US companies flowing from Iraq are also linked to the illuminati
    5- that rense.com is some sort of source of truth

    1 no I’ve never said that, I don’t even believe it.
    2 no I’ve never said that, I accept something flew into the buildings, I don’t accept it was the people who were claimed to be flying the planes, I don’t accept the buildings collapsed because of those planes and I have never said the US govt was in any way responsible, simply that they haven’t told the truth about what really happened.
    3 yes I have said that, would you like the evidence or would you prefer to take the MSM’s word for it that such isn’t the case
    4 no I’ve never said that
    5 no I’ve never said that

    Don’t hallucinate bhudson, it’s fearfully boring.

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  178. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    “The German Socialists based their camps on ones used by the Russian Socialists, but with German efficiency and attention to detail.”

    But they never got anywhere near to Joe’s score Kea.

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  179. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    A sensible fellow, that’s flown planes, would find it bloody hard to believe that the thing that hit the Pentagon was a 757 at zero feet of course! :)

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  180. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    This is getting funnier (and more revealing) by the minute.

    I was taken to task for saying 3 million died in the Holocaust. I was informed on the “meticulous records” kept by the Gemans and that those records indicated a figure of 6m.

    Now they are quoting figures of 17m (bhudson) and 11m (Yvette). That is a 6m spread right there! All based on “meticulous records”.

    I would say those folk would have made great NAZI’s given how easily they can be brain washed. Its thanks to people like you lot that those sorts of things happen in the first place. Now go wash the blood off your hands.

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  181. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Ah Kea. Forget all that shit. Have you any idea how hard it would be to hold a 757 3metres above the ground at say 300 knots
    with ground effect in play?

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  182. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Joe was nothing compared with Mao Johnboy.

    Hitler was nothing compared to that lot. It shows a profound ignorance of history to claim that Hitler was the worst man in modern times. He was not even close. The commies were in another league all together. Of course that fact is not widely known as it does not fit with Jewish interests.

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  183. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Johnboy, studies have proven that conspiracy theorists can not hold a 757 three metres above the ground, due to ground effect. Its impossible.

    However, a Pilot could do it, and did.

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  184. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    True Kea. Answer my last question. :)

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  185. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    A sensible fellow, that’s flown planes, would find it bloody hard to believe that the thing that hit the Pentagon was a 757 at zero feet of course!

    Yes I’ve raised that point with them Johnboy but they weren’t impressed. You see, something hit the Pentagon and the MSM said it was a 757, therefore, to them, it had to be, otherwise thousands of people would have talked.

    Physics doesn’t matter, that’s for fools. The MSM is what really counts in these debates and everyone knows they’re reliable. Except when they talk about Israel.

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  186. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Bollocks Kea. It is virtually impossible at that speed to fly that close to the ground unless you are a cruise missile! :)

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  187. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    And the hole in the Pentagon doesn’t match a 757 but maybe matches a cruise missile! :)

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  188. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    I wonder how the “meticulous” Germans counted gay Jews or Russian Jews. What about gay, retarded, Jewish Russians?

    I only ask because if they died in the Auschwitz concentration camp, because they were Russian or Gay, then it would not matter because they were not trying to wipe them out (thanks for that bhudson). But if they died because they were JEWISH, then it is really really bad.

    I am sure all those millions who died in the camps felt much better knowing that they were not being murdered for being Jewish.

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  189. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    The Q we have to ask is where is American Airlines Flight 77 and the folks on board it?

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  190. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    No kea it is because the western world with its free press was engage in a classical war with the nazis, so was masiively reported, not some Jewish scam. The ussr and china were both insular societies where information was difficult to obtain, plus the west had a massive pr campaign to accept the ussr as allies during the war followed by a massive campaign to demonise them after the war.

    “The first casualty of war is the truth”

    ” A lie can make it half way around the world before the truth has time to put its boots on” Mark twain.

    Re Reid #2 no wonder you need so much quickeze.

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  191. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Don’t hallucinate bhudson, it’s fearfully boring.

    Samplers to jog your memory Reid:

    Reid (11,895) Says:
    September 22nd, 2012 at 8:10 am
    A good history of the Illuminati for those who don’t already know it. Watch out for that cognitive dissonance
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxSTT5ipcAQ&feature=channel&list=UL

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/09/general_debate_22_september_2012.html#comment-1025222

    Or,

    reid (11,896) Says:
    January 21st, 2012 at 9:41 pm

    BTW, black nobility [illuminati] is not the end of the inquiry, it’s a mere preface to this topic and a proper understanding of who and what is happening will take you years of study, but if you are genuinely interested then off the top of my head that’s possibly something someone with your level of understanding could start with. Although I doubt those sites mention it, bear in mind the US leadership also have deep connections with many of these families, as well.

    Unfortunately I get the impression you’re one of these people who is still living in the realm of life happens on the surface and things are pretty much as they appear. For example if your conservative then maybe you think that there pretty much was evidence of WMD in Iraq or if you’re a lefty (which I think you are) that Obama really is trying to do a good job with the US economy it’s just the bankers are tying his hands. It’s unfortunate (for you, not for me) if you do think this sort of thing because unless and until one drops such childish fantasies from one’s realm of understanding, one never gets anywhere with this topic, hence when the axe falls and believe me, it’s going to happen very soon, if not within a few years then definitely in our lifetimes, one will never get it.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/01/general_debate_21_january_2012.html#comment-924592

    Or,

    reid (11,895) Says:
    February 7th, 2012 at 11:05 pm

    I’ve cited links to rense stories every day for years now bhudson. I’m assuming you and others hadn’t picked up on that before from the fact you and others never said anything cos as soon as you cite rense, normally its gameover for those people still sadly inhabiting the cognitive dissonance world…

    I deliberately showed people the root site on purpose a few days ago because the Black Nobility [illuminati]is cognitive dissonance city Arizona and I wanted to test reaction… They use magazines like Vogue for their catalogues. If you understand illuminati symbolism you can see it: e.g. check out the December 2010 French Vogue…

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/general_debate_7_february_2012.html#comment-930537

    And those without going deep into KB archives Reid.

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  192. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Here is some stuff that will answer your questions on ground effect. Not from the MSM either :)

    Thank me later.

    http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/conspiracy/q0274.shtml

    And

    http://www.911myths.com/Ground_Effect.pdf

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  193. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    The 4000 Polish blokes in the Katyn Forest that got a bullet in the ear from Uncle Joe probably thought they were lucky that they weren’t bloody Jews Kea! :)

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  194. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    I only ask because if they died in the Auschwitz concentration camp, because they were Russian or Gay, then it would not matter because they were not trying to wipe them out (thanks for that bhudson)

    But I said no such thing Kea. You can warp and twist all you like [i presume it is mandatory for you to align views with your mind] but that will not change the act that I did not say that the killing of non-Jews by the Nazis was any less wrong or horrific.

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  195. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Overlooked Millions: Non-Jewish Victims of the Holocaust
    Karen Silverstrim, MA Candidate
    University of Central Arkansas

    The genocidal policies of the Nazis resulted in the deaths of about as many Polish Gentiles as Polish Jews, thus making them co-victims in a Forgotten Holocaust. This Holocaust has been largely ignored because historians who have written on the subject of the Holocaust have chosen to interpret the tragedy in exclusivistic terms–namely, as the most tragic period in the history of the Jewish Diaspora. To them, the Holocaust was unique to the Jews, and they therefore have had little or nothing to say about the nine million Gentiles, including three million Poles, who also perished in the greatest tragedy the world has ever known. Little wonder that many people who experienced these events share the feeling of Nobel Laureate Czeslaw Milosz, who anxious when the meaning of the word Holocaust undergoes gradual modifications, so that the word begins to belong to the history of the Jews exclusively, as if among the victims there were not also millions of Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, and prisoners of other nationalities. — Richard C. Lukas, preface to The Forgotten Holocaust: The Poles under German Occupation 1939-1944

    http://www.ukemonde.com/holocaust/victims.html

    Thanks for putting me right on that bhudson. Now how about we clear up how many died in the Holocaust ? Was it 6m or closer to 17m ?

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  196. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Here you go Kea. :)

    http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/pentagon.htm

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  197. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Or to put it another way bhudson, why did you and gander disregard the other ELEVEN MILLION PEOPLE who were murdered in the holocaust?

    You lot told me the figure (for the Holocaust) was 6m. You relied on “meticulous records” to arrive at that figure. Did you just “forget” about the other ELEVEN MILLION PEOPLE bhudson?

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  198. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Thanks Johnboy.

    That is way easier to understand than all that boring science/physics/aerodynamics I linked to.

    I can see a pattern emerging here. Facts and evidence are really holding back my understanding of many things :)

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  199. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    1- the illuminati (you also claimed that HRH QEII is the head thereof).

    bhudson tell me where I’ve said QEII is head of the illuminati. In the absence thereof, false.

    2- that the US govt had a hand to play in the execution of the 9/11 events – specifically you don’t accept that terrorists flew aircraft into the twin towers or the pentagon

    false.

    3- the Syrian unrest and uprisings are actually artificially orchestrated by the US to create justification for military action against Iran

    Absolutely, and it is.

    4- that the commercial benefits to US companies flowing from Iraq are also linked to the illuminati

    false

    5- that rense.com is some sort of source of truth

    Half point. I’ve never said rense is some sort of truth which is what you alleged. The articles I get from rense which I frequently cite, stand on their own merits.

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  200. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    “Colbert Claims Obama Teleported to Mars for Gay Trysts”

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/01/now-it-can-be-told-the-real-reason-obama-was-nearly-devoured-by-carnivorous-plesiosaurs-on-mars/

    !!!!!!! BREAKING NEWS !!!!!!

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  201. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Oh that’s a bit unfair Kea. I was just getting into the lack of airplane debris around the Pentagon theory not to mention the lightpoles! :)

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  202. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    BTW, re: the Pentagon, isn’t it an amazing coincidence that the plane did a tight descending loop and hit the very office containing the people who were tasked to investigate the missing trillion $ that the Comptroller of the Pentagon, one Dov Zackheim, announced was somehow missing from the budget, on 10th September 2001? Isn’t that just amazing? I mean, who’da thunk the day after he announced that utter major incredible scandal, a “terrorist” would not only take out the Pentagon, but it would take out the very office containing the investigators. I mean, wow. Talk about lucky, right? Another amazing coincidence, this guy Dov, used to be CEO of a company called Systems Planning Corp that guess what? Made remote control systems for controlling aircraft in the event they were hijacked and could thereby land them safely. Isn’t that amazing?

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  203. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Course there should have been wing bits where the lightpoles got sheared guess your boring aerodynamics/physics/science can explain that away. Not to mention the position of the sheared off lightpoles, boring science/aerodynamics/physics can explain it all I guess. :)

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  204. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    But it’s all coincidence and doesn’t mean anything, because if there was anything in it, then Popular Mechanics or Scientific American would have looked right into it and told the whole and real truth already, so relax, move on, nothing to see here, thinking otherwise would be utterly mental and will probably result in your name appearing on a no fly list, somewhere.

    What amazes me Johnboy is no landing gear, no engines, you know, the heavy stuff. And no bodies and luggage and stuff. Maybe they just vanished because the military wanted to keep it tidy.

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  205. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Actually I didn’t state that the Holocaust was 6m. I responded to a comment by Reid that was itself linked back to a comment you had made that 3m Jews had died.

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  206. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Kea knows best in these matters Reid. After all he is an aviator by name at least. :)

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  207. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Actually I didn’t state that the Holocaust was 6m. I responded to a comment by Reid that was itself linked back to a comment you had made that 3m Jews had died.

    When you subsequently called for the number of non-Jewish deaths attributable to the Holocaust, I shared the estimate I had found and noted that the range (11m-17m) depended on what criteria applied for deaths to be counted as part of the Holocaust. [which does not undermine the value of any life taken which is not counted in the Holocaust.]

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  208. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Explaining is losing bhudson. Specially if you feel you have to explain to Kea! :)

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  209. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    After all he is an aviator by name at least.

    I got a flight sim computer game from a mate once, but I couldn’t do a descending turn and fly into the Pentagon straight after completing the Cessna training program, so I gave up in disgust. I guess if I was a Muslim with Allah on my side Johnboy, I might have been more motivated and Allah would have made all those complicated dials and knobs on the instrument panel completely and utterly transparent, which I suppose is what people like Kea and bhudson think happened, because nothing much else really explains it, does it.

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  210. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Honestly Reid you pretend you are intelligent and have seen through the matrix only to shoot yourself in the foot promoting ludicrous conspiracy theories about 911. Not a single scientific study,has found evidence for,any of the theories. Of course in your case we know what will be the conclusion, … Wait for it…..

    It’s as pitiful as area 51 and no moon landing scams.

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  211. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Fuck I used to fly real Cessna’s Reid and it was bloody hard to control them near to the ground. Piper’s were worse cause the wings were that much closer to the earth and that was at 50 knots.

    Kea, being an aviator himself knows better of course and by the will of Allah would have no trouble at all at piloting a 757, after a couple of hours practice, at 300 knot’s 3 or 4 metre’s off the ground and into the side of a building.

    I’ve flown at 100kt at 100ft (illegally) and it goes past fucking quick, one hiccup and your history. Kea knows best though! :)

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  212. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    And another one…

    Leaping Jimmy (11,900) Says:
    April 20th, 2012 at 1:29 pm
    Zapper, in my view the 2.3 trillion was just an opportunistic tack-on to the operation. They knew 911 was coming up, they knew that money was missing months before they announced it.

    And yet Reid tries to maintain that he hasn’t said the US govt had a hand in the events on 911.

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  213. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    The 2.3 trillion was missing to fund ongoing research at Area 51 so them thar aliens hacked the 757s computers and flew it into the pentagon at exactly 1.012345 m being exactly the golden 2 Egyptian cubits or 2.5 time the old Mesopotamian cubits which advanced intergalactic civilisations know will overcome any ground effect as long as you are flying at a,speed of pi times the circumference of the great pyramid of gieser.

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  214. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Honestly Reid you pretend you are intelligent and have seen through the matrix only to shoot yourself in the foot promoting ludicrous conspiracy theories about 911.

    Kevin if I AM intelligent and I DO see through the matrix then I’d be pretty fucking useless if I thought 911 was kosher, wouldn’t I. I mean, if 911 isn’t matrix territory then what is?

    And yet Reid tries to maintain that he hasn’t said the US govt had a hand in the events on 911.

    Keep grasping at straws bhudson (and Kevin). I said they knew it was coming up. Just like Roosevelt knew Pearl Harbour was coming up. Hey, BTW, either of you. Got any comment on that missing 2.3 trillion? Does that mean anything at all to you? Or does it hurt your tummy if you start thinking about it? It’s just I’d be interested to hear either of you seriously attempt to explain it, that’s all. Reasonable question, isn’t it?

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  215. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Johnboy, the experts in these matters say it is possible. That matches with what eye witnesses saw on the day.

    What have you got to support your theory?

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  216. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Omfg not that old pearl harbour scam.

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  217. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    No Kev it’s the 2.3 missing trillion scam. Try not to obfuscate won’t you. We’ll get to Pearl Harbour later, after you or bhudson attempt to explain away the missing 2.3 trillion. Go ahead.

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  218. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Reid,

    It was well addressed for you at the time. You just didn’t like the argument because it rebutted yours:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/04/a_911_truther_right_here.html#comment-958170

    Of course you had already transcended to the ridiculous by then, demanding that anyone and everyone give you concrete evidence to adequately explain away the money, while having said about your own position:

    Of course I have no proof. Of course I don’t. OTOH, you guys have no proof that it wasn’t like that either, do you.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/04/a_911_truther_right_here.html#comment-958071

    It would appear that Fran Mold had been reading that thread as 6 months later David Shearer used the remarkably similar: no I haven’t got the video. And I can’t prove there was one. But it is up to the PM to prove there wasn’t one.

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  219. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Unfortunately bhudson, tom never did answer that, did he. He obfuscated, but he didn’t address it. As you haven’t, either.

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  220. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    No, Reid, he nailed it. And you.

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