General Debate 3 October 2012

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barry

I see a new report (I guess from the govt statistician) re religious numbers in NZ. For the first time the catholics are most numerous with the anglican set now number two.

On the panel on Radio NZ yesterday the first reason given was that the catholics have a set of rules and standards and they stick to them – wheras others try to adjust their rules to try and please everyone. There were other reason to obviously.
But its good to hear that Im not the only one in this country who recognises the value in having standards and then keeping them.

Of course one of the matters here is the homosexual/gay marriage/etc subject which is currently in the news.
Studies have shown that one determinant that might be producing so many queers happens in the uterus.
Studies have shown that the level of testosterone in the foetus has a correlated effect in baby boys.
if the testosterone levels are low, the baby boy wont be playing with trucks and guns but more likely dolls, if the levels are higher (and normal) then the playthings are trucks, guns etc.

The testosterone levels are suspected of being affected by various addatives in processed food and if this turns out to be true then the likes of fast foods outfits will be in trouble as all they sell is highly processed.
So – maybe its not in the genes but is in the food – and if so then it is a type of sickness. A deficiency….which can be cured if caught early enough.
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October 3, 2012 8:09am
Griff

Barry
Catholicism is growing due to the number of immigrants who have the disorder.
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October 3, 2012 8:15am
hj

From John Maudlin’s letter:

“There are four types of men:

1. One who knows and knows that he knows… His horse of wisdom will reach the skies.
2. One who knows, but doesn’t know that he knows… He is fast asleep, so you should wake him up!
3. One who doesn’t know, but knows that he doesn’t know… His limping mule will eventually get him home.
4. One who doesn’t know and doesn’t know that he doesn’t know… He will be eternally lost in his hopeless oblivion!”

-Ibn Yami, 13th-century Persian-Tajik poet
……
5. One who is sure he knows but doesn’t know the world is just a model in his head, these are the sort who make a cult of te tiritti and support Pol Pot (until they see reality) and they become “activists” for political change.
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October 3, 2012 8:17am
jaba

so is Shane Jones trying to get his old Sealords job back?
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October 3, 2012 8:17am
hj

One reason Catholics may be increasing is Filipino immigration.
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October 3, 2012 8:19am
Keeping Stock

A sporting question; should Lydia Ko win the Halberg Award for Sportswoman of the Year? She has had an absolutely stellar year and has played with great consistency. She was the youngest-ever (at 14) winner of a professional tournament in Australia in January, added another professional tournament in August, and has won the three most prestigious amateur events in women’s golf. In addition, she has held the world #1 ranking throughout.

But will she win? In an Olympic year, probably not. Is that fair?

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/lydias-magnificent-year.html
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October 3, 2012 8:19am
Manolo

Gore will always be a crook:

A weather expert has backed the stance of an Alice Springs filmmaker who refused to sell footage of a firestorm to former US vice-president Al Gore — to use in Mr Gore’s climate presentations — because the event was unrelated to climate change.

Chris Tangey from Alice Springs Film and Television recorded the phenomenon on Curtin Springs Station, 360km southwest of Alice Springs, while scouting locations for a film.

The footage has been an international sensation, reported widely in global media.

In an email exchange with Mr Gore’s office, Tangey said using the footage in a climate-change framework would be “deliberately deceptive”.

“I am aware that you may have missed the reporting on the very localised nature of this firestorm,” Tangey wrote. “However, in any case, I am confused as to why you would offer to buy a licence to use it at all unless you had conducted even elementary research which might indicate that this Mt Conner event had direct linkage to global warming/climate change.”

http://michellemalkin.com/2012/10/02/al-gore-firestorm/
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October 3, 2012 8:25am
hj

Reward offered: for information on why the public was not consulted on the fundamental issue of changes to immigration policy.
Someone in Labour who was around in the 1990’s might be able to help?
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October 3, 2012 8:25am
flipper

There has been much toing and froing over Obamination v Romney polls.

On the one hand, there is Dick Morris who says he has never been wrong, predicting Romney by 7 or 8 points. On the other, there are numerous media and other polls (including their self-analysis) that say Obamination by 2 to 6 points.
There are claims that the models are wrong in that all the MSM polls use 2008 (voting, Dems v Reps, and Indeps turnouts) as a baseline, and that their results are predicated upon those erroneous assumptions.
There are also conspiracy theories at large (let’s put those aside for the moment, but note that Caddell, and Sabato of UV have postulated and backed one).
Others disagree and seek to debunk such theories. They say all polls have been adjusted since 2008.
Then there are others who say the whole polling system has been corrupted by media bias.
They says it is so bad, that a repeat of the infamous Dewey v Truman poll predictions is imminent – but in reverse.
There are also calls for inquiries (? who would do it other than media) to be launched if Morris is right (more or less).
So DPF, as a professional pollster, what say you??????????????????????????
There is, after all, the Leighton v Orca lunch at stake!!!!
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October 3, 2012 8:37am
Lance

Oh dear
Another day of unbridled shit from the Obama haters, the Al Gore haters, the climate change haters and the religion haters.
Shessh guys, get a hobby, or a blow job or something cause this is getting old.
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October 3, 2012 8:57am
Griff

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10838020
Trash the treaty before the stoneagers put us back into their pre contact state of tribal warfare

“We have been hijacked by other agendas around Treaty [of Waitangi] settlements and why we haven’t been able to get a consensus here today is not necessarily around the ongoing stewardship of the gulf.”

Deputy Mayor Penny Hulse said the topic was deferred until next month to allow talks with the Hauraki Gulf Forum and Maori.

Guidance from the council’s Independent Maori Statutory Board members would be sought on the question of an appropriate partnership.”
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October 3, 2012 8:57am
my 2 cents

What a beautiful day in Wellington.
Hope everyone has a good one.
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October 3, 2012 9:06am
Nookin

“Dear Mr Shearer
I appreciate that you have had a very limited role in government but given that you aspire to the office of Prime Minister, I thought there might be some things that you really should learn.

The 1st is that the Inspector General of Security is not part of the operation of GCSB. the inspector general was not, as you asserted on TV 3 today, instrumental in setting up the controversial interceptions. He was not investigating himself.

In case you have missed it, the inspector general is established under an entirely separate Act. He is independent of the Bureau (and indeed the security intelligence service). If you are of the view that his role entails participation in day to day activities, why did your stupid party specifically make the Bureau subject to the review of the Inspector General in 2003 when it should have known that the inspector general could not possibly do anything because he would always be investigating himself? Does that not occur to you?

You said that there should be a High Court judge undertaking the review. Again, you may have missed it but the primary qualification for appointment to the role of the Inspector General is that he/she must have been a High Court judge.

Judges do get used to petty criticism and so I would imagine that Neazor is probably not unduly concerned that you have impugned his integrity. Your comments however may have to be addressed if you ever find yourself in a position of having to work with them in a relationship of trust and confidence.

Not so acceptable, however, is the fact that you also chose to impugn the integrity of all those working within the Bureau. There is a generally accepted convention that persons in positions of influence, such as you, should not publicly impugn the integrity of people who cannot respond. Civil servants, with whom your party is supposedly closely aligned, tend to get upset when people question their ethics and integrity without producing the slightest shred of evidence that an incident was anything other than a mistake.

It is more offensive when those civil servants are working in the area of security and have even less opportunity of responding.

It may well be however that their interests are subservient to the Labor Party’s practice of engaging in Gotcha politics, a practice that you initially disavowed but which, in reality, you have so fulsomely embraced.

You might like to consider that a proliferation of enquiries is not necessarily the answer to the employment problems experienced by the country and that maybe if Hollywood does bring another movie and 3000 jobs, the Labor Party might regard this as a positive effort.

You might also like to consider that Mr Dotcom’s future will be determined by the New Zealand court system. Mr Mallard might be able to explain how that system works given that he is actively involved at the present time.

You might also like to consider that the New Zealand court system has looked after Mr Dotcom’s rights rather effectively up until now and the judges who have presided over the various proceedings involving Mr Dotcom are unlikely to get their knickers in a twist because Mr Key it is fulfilling his role as the Ministry of Tourism and Prime Minister in trying to generate interest in New Zealand and, in particular, is trying to create employment opportunities and greater exposure for the country.

It may however be that you have the same faith in the justice system as you have in Paul Neazor and everyone else whose occasional failings give you the opportunity of scoring cheap political points.

You may or may not take a blind bit of notice of this. I thought I would bring to your attention anyway.”
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October 3, 2012 9:07am
Pete George

David Clark has been talked up as a bright new Labour prospect, and that’s probably true, comparatively. But he has launched a very weakly based attack on IRD and Peter Dunne.

Criticism labelled ‘ignorant’

Revenue Minister Peter Dunne has taken a hard line with Dunedin North MP David Clark, labelling his criticism of Inland Revenue as mischievous, ill-informed and “downright ignorant”.

“He is playing typical Opposition politics and adding one and one and quite deliberately getting five,” Mr Dunne said.

That’s how it looks, Clark has tried to blame one person putting the wrong thing in an envelope on the time it takes to upgrade a massive and complex computer system – “Its computer system was 20 years old and was the prime reason behind recent stuff-ups.”

And Clark has continued his attack at Red Alert with a gross exaggeration: IRD computer crisis

Clark’s closing comments…

What is urgently needed is commitment from the Government to a system upgrade, accompanied by project details including a credible timeline for implementation. Any response prominently featuring the word ‘relaxed’ and speaking of 5-10 years simply won’t cut the mustard.

Updating our IT shouldn’t be that hard. We can learn from others. After all, we’re not the only country in the Western World with a tax system.

…suggest he has a lot of work to do to rise to political heavyweight status.

Especially considering earlier this year John Key announced a commitment to a major systen upgrade. And this will increase automation and reduce jobs, I wonder whether Clark will support that.

Other countries in the Western World may be able to upgrade their envelope stuffing personnel in five minutes, but I’m sure their tax IT systems will take a lot longer too.

And I hope Clark can learn from others about how to be effective in opposition. He could start by asking Chris Hipkins.
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October 3, 2012 9:08am
Colville

Will the gweens oppose a new coal mine?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/7759964/Fonterra-plans-coal-mine
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October 3, 2012 9:19am
thedavincimode

Mike Hesson’s comments reported on Stuff highlight the malaise that has permeated NZ cricket in recent years despite having raw talent available at the top level that by NZ standards compares more than favourably with better performing teams of bygone days.

His inability or refusal (I don’t know which) to confront reality is perfectly in tune with that of his senior players. He is seemingly oblivious to the notion that there is no rational basis for him on the one hand to talk up a view that they played well in the T20, and on the other to identify failings in the three areas of the game.

Mike, just in case you’re reading this, losing a game or a series or whatever because you didn’t field well one day and dropped some gotcha catches, but otherwise batted and bowled well, means you didn’t play well. Losing a game because you bowled poorly but fielded and batted well means you didn’t play well. Losing a game because you batted poorly (our present norm despite the talent) but bowled and fielded well means you didn’t play well. You don’t “take positives” (Ross?) out of a game because you completed some or even only one aspect of it as you are expected to. It means you didn’t play well.

It hasn’t taken long for Hesson, perhaps assisted by his little mate, to find the next lower access point to the slippery slide and slot nicely into the slipstream of his charges.
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October 3, 2012 9:26am
Longknives

And now for something creepy and disturbing-

http://www.cracked.com/article_20041_15-mind-blowing-old-timey-photos-you-wont-believe-are-real.html
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October 3, 2012 9:27am
thedavincimode

Good heavens Longknives, I thought that was going to link to Barry Soper.
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October 3, 2012 9:29am
niggly

Nice one Nookin and yeah it’s getting tiring hearing Labour (and the Greens) bash civil servants again … and again … and again.

Talking about the Greens I wonder if you could compose a letter to Mr Norman?

Like when the Rena stuck astrolabe reef last year and behind the scenes (and out of the public eye) the authorities swung into action to bring together the appropriate people (and systems) to deal with the disaster (eg salvors, environmental protection personnel, assessors, police, army etc) …. meanwhile the likes of the Greens were for days, if not weeks, were in the forefront of the media claiming the Govt was slow to act and nothing was happening (eg the oil wasn’t being removed within a couple of days etc). The Greens clearly have no idea how these processes actually work but were happy to parade their self-righteousness (and ignorance) to the media and general population (presumably because it was a political opportunity to take a crack at the Govt, despite it not being warranted nor justified).

And I feel this is also happening yet again, this time with the Dotcom/GCSB issue and the Greens complaint to the Police. The Greens have no idea what actually happened – their claim is the GSCB was involved in “illegal” monitoring of a NZ resident and that Justice Neazor whitewashed his investigation. We of course have Mr Norman parading his confident, self-righteousness and accusations in the media (see Morning Report this morning) but does Mr Norman actually know what happened and how? No of course not, so he is talking about an issue with very a faint understanding of the processes but again it’s an ideal opportuinity to attack the Govt.

What I mean is, I can’t really imagine that the GCSB would be “spying” on a NZ resident as much, that would be the SIS’s job to plant bugs and so on, but there was a recent Scoop article (written by unnamed Scoop “journalists”) that mentioned a Police article which talked about relaying real-time video feeds of the raid to the Police and allegedly to the US (if this is so I’m happy NZ has this capability), so could it be that GSCB allowed Police and SIS to use their datalinks? If so, this doesn’t seem unreasonable to me (remember in the aftermath of 9/11 in the US it was noted that the various US intelligence agencies weren’t working together), after all as tax payers do we want to put more funding into the SIS to duplicate the GSCB systems when the costs could be shared? Is this what might happen as a result of the Greens’ focus on the workings of the GSCB? I hope not, as I don’t see the point. Perhaps what needs to be done is amend the Act’s to allow greater sharing and collaboration.

Now of course the Greens wouldn’t want that either, they are unhappy (as the “peace” activisits are) that the GSCB is part of a wider US/UK/Canadian/Australian international spy system and that is why they are making such a fuss. In the world of the Greens, unlike the real world of globalisation (not just in trade but in global communications and linkages) the Greens would prefer NZ be “blind” and have NZ remove itself from this spy system (and of course not ramp up SIS funding) despite the changing world-order (the rise of India, China, Brazil etc). I really have no faith in the Greens to turn NZ into some sort of Titanic, sailing into unseen but a clearly dangerous environment lurking out of sight …
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October 3, 2012 9:39am
hj

I read somewhere that after WW2 Germany and japan did well because having been defeated the institutions were thrown out and rebuilt (i.e had a good old clean out).
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October 3, 2012 10:05am
jaba

Colville .. can’t wait to hear the Gweens response
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October 3, 2012 10:23am
kowtow

hj
How much of it also had to do with “national character”.
Though defeated they never suffered from defeatism,they believe in themselves,have a great work ethic,etc etc

Afterall the people who rebuilt those countries were the same ones that fought (and pillaged) in Russia and China.

Yeah I know there was massive American aid,but that aid went to lots of places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heimat
I’d bet the Japanese have a similar concept.
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October 3, 2012 10:36am
cha

I’d bet the Japanese have a similar concept.

Probably but they’re well on their to a complete revision of their history
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October 3, 2012 10:58am
hj

I bet the Germans and Japanese never had to kowtow to biculturalism (2 realities, 2 truths, 2 values etc) and I bet promotion in the public service didn’t depend on how you felt about te tiritti.
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October 3, 2012 11:24am
kowtow

cha

Don’t worry,kowtow knows a thing or 2 and if I were Emperor, Lord Russell of Liverpool’s Knights of Bushido would be mandatory reading for every Japanese schoolchild.
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October 3, 2012 12:05pm
Viking2

John Key briefed on Dotcom spying in February
ANDREA VANCE
Last updated 12:13 03/10/2012

Kim Dotcom
Reuters
KIM DOTCOM: Illegally spied on.

JOHN KEY: Accepts the briefing happened, but cannot remember the details.
Politics

A review of GCSB files has revealed Prime Minster John Key was told about the spy agency’s role in the Kim Dotcom case in February.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7763234/John-Key-briefed-on-Dotcom-spying-in-February

Oh dear
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October 3, 2012 12:21pm
Viking2

re dot co.
You should all read Graeme Edglers blog to day.
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October 3, 2012 12:23pm
jaba

does Ipredit have a book on an early election?
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October 3, 2012 1:17pm
Luc Hansen

Hectoring Hekia at her most imbecilic at the teachers conference, I hear.

She should cast her eyes over Deming’s 14 Points:

http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newSTR_75.htm

DPF has insider privileges – maybe he could kindly pass the link on to her.
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October 3, 2012 1:19pm
graham

I was refraining from commenting on this, but as Penny is lurking around, it seems a good time to remind her that I’m still waiting for an answer to my question.

http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/10/general_debate_2_october_2012.html#comment-1028893

Penny, you previously said that she would “consider” replying to my questions – IF I give an assurance that I will stop making certain statements. Well, here’s your chance to prove yourself. I’ve stated several times already, I will cease forthwith, as you put it, making the statements you have referred to, IF you answer the questions I asked at 08:08 yesterday morning.

I’m still quite willing to wait, and hold true to my end of the bargain. The question is, will you, Penny, hold true to your end of the bargain?

You claim to be so concerned that “The books are opened”; to be “anti-corruption / pro-transparency”; to be concerned that NZ “gets our House in order” and “ensures genuine transparency and accountability in local and central government”.

Let’s see some of that transparency and openness.
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October 3, 2012 1:27pm
wtfunz

@graham,
I’m so happy part of your agreement didn’t involve holding your breath whilst waiting for a reply from Penny-NotsoBright as you would be long deseased.
You will never get an answer from Penny on anything regarding her principles/beliefs or anything by way of a solution to the problems she bangs on about simply because – she has none of either. Her solution is that her Liebour Govmunt will tell her, and everyone else, what to think and do, provide all the jobs, pay all the wages and tax all those rich pricks to the extent they give up and flee in fear to Aussie or other more attractive destinations.

It was a very good question however.
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October 3, 2012 1:52pm
Morgy

This from Hekia Parata’s Facebook page. If you get the chance to watch the whole thing it is quite a insight into the PPTA.
http://www.bizviz.co.nz/Mediasite/Play/9f217b6df8644b69b61902959a07fbab1d?catalog=858ed599-cc19-4d4e-9576-96a0d94fa028
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October 3, 2012 1:58pm
hj

My father was an ex pow; he had a copy of the Knights of Bushido.
http://www.nzembassy.com/japan/relationship-between-new-zealand-and-japan/new-zealand-and-japan/commonwealth-war-cemetery-an-3
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October 3, 2012 4:25pm
DJP6-25

Colville 9:19 am Will the Pope go to mass on Sunday?

cheers

David Prossser
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October 3, 2012 4:35pm
Andrei

Peter Dunne, a singularly talentless little man with a political science degree whose mission in life is to identify new ways for the government to steal from the people who actually work to earn a living.
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October 3, 2012 5:43pm
wat dabney

hj,

When you say your father was a POW can you confirm which side imprisoned him? If he’s anything like you he was surely fighting for the socially pure Japanese.
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October 3, 2012 5:53pm
Manolo

Andrei, you risk the terrible wrath of P.G., loyal fan and most fervent follower of the whorish Dunne.
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October 3, 2012 6:25pm
kowtow

wart dumbney

Making fun of allied POW’s is pretty low.
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October 3, 2012 6:25pm
wat dabney

That’s right kowtow, because I was “making fun of allied POWs” wasn’t I.

Twat.
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October 3, 2012 6:28pm
kowtow

twat dabney tetetehehehe.
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October 3, 2012 6:31pm
nasska

For the times you can’t be with the one you love….

Ref: http://9gag.com/gag/5490306
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October 3, 2012 7:36pm
nasska

The chicken and the egg are laying in bed. The chicken is smoking a cigarette with a satisfied smile on its face while the egg is frowning and looking slightly annoyed.
The egg mutters “Well I guess that answers that question”.
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October 3, 2012 8:02pm
Pete George

No Manolo, I have an association but not a fervent fan and loyal follower, I mostly operate and speak for myself.

But it doesn’t take much to see from Andrei’s link: “”The changes are about ensuring that tax is applied fairly, but without imposing undue compliance costs”.

And Dunne has actually supported lowering taxes, both with Labour and with National. And the last I heard from him he said he would oppose a Green proposed increase in alcohol excise tax.

The article does quote someone wanting to raise taxes and raise benefits and raise minimum wages:

Labour’s revenue spokesman David Clark said the move amounted to “trying to get blood out of a car park” and was another desperate government attempt to piece together enough money to meet its budget.

“First the Government produced its petty paper boy tax, now it’s putting a tax on car parks. What next – grocery vouchers? Actually, it’s taxing them too.”

Labour would instead bring in “pro-growth tax reform that will ensure speculators pay their fair share”.

“National has forgotten that the best way to increase revenue is to boost growth. Labour has a plan to support modern manufacturing and exporters to get growth in the economy and create better jobs.”

Clark’s Labour wants to pour money into businesses that look like losing jobs due to declining markets. For that they will need even more tax.

You should hardly feel terrorised by that level of wrath (mine, not Clark’s).
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October 3, 2012 8:45pm
hj

I happen to be married to a Japanese Wat and one thing about my father, he didn’t hate “the Nips”.
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October 3, 2012 8:49pm
hj

My father said that when the Japanese Navy handed the prisoners over to the army some of the young naval officers(?) wept.
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October 3, 2012 8:54pm
Tauhei Notts

Where’s the Ranfurly Shield.
Has it crossed the Mokau yet?
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October 3, 2012 9:30pm
Manolo

A good read: http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/overcoming-obamaddiction_653239.html
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October 4, 2012 6:29am
big bruv

What time is the Presidential debate today?
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October 4, 2012 7:08am
Mark

So the government are introducing Car Park – BUT only if it is a designated individual park.

Its a bit like introducing GST on food but only charging it on Chocolate.

The tax the way it is going to be introduced will be very easy for large corporate to avoid but far more difficult for small business. For example if you have 3 employees and all have a car park they will pay tax on the car park. If you have 50 employees you take 45 car-parks to account for the proportion likely to be away from work on leave etc and the employees Dont pay tax.

Tax only works if it is simple and equitible. This is neither.

Peter Dunne is not often caught out with really stupid policy but this is right up there.
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October 4, 2012 7:25am

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