Misleading Scotland

October 29th, 2012 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

The Guardian reports:

Alex Salmond has been accused of misleading voters about the legal advice given to his government about the right of an independent Scotland to join the European Union.

The first minister has repeatedly said that would be an automatic member of the EU, be free to adopt sterling as its currency and would inherit all the UK’s opt-outs on EU immigration and border controls. He has asserted that this position was supported by his government’s legal advice.

But Salmond was forced to make a statement to the Scottish parliament late on Tuesday after opposition leaders accused him of “lying” and “covering-up” following an admission from his deputy, Nicola Sturgeon, that no specific legal advice had been given by Scottish law officers on EU membership.

You can’t have your independence and eat it also. If Scotland wants to be an independent country, they need to independently join the EU, negotiate its own opt outs, and have its own currency.

Even if Salmond had not lied, and had got a legal opinion from Scottish law officers, they don’t decide. The EU does.

 The Scottish government was due to appear at a two-day hearing in Scotland’s highest civil court in December in an attempt to overturn a historic ruling by Rosemary Agnew, the Scottish information commissioner, that this legal advice should be published in the public interest. However, this court action – which has so far cost nearly £12,000 in legal expenses –will now be dropped, Sturgeon said. “I can confirm that the government has now commissioned specific legal advice from our law officers on the position of Scotland within the EU if independence is achieved,” she said. “[The] Scottish government had previously cited opinions from a number of eminent legal authorities, past and present [but] has not sought specific legal advice.”

What this means is that the SNP Government had tried desperately to prevent the truth coming out, but the Freedom of Information Act won out.

Hat Tip: No Right Turn

Tags:

18 Responses to “Misleading Scotland”

  1. All_on_Red (941 comments) says:

    I think NOT belonging to the EU today is probably a good thing. Switzerland doesnt but makes the best of both worlds with border and trade agreement and I reckon Turkey probably has no regrets they werent admitted.
    Mind you some 3 out of 5 scots (or is it 4?) receive benefits from the state so whatr happens to those entitlements? Ahh, the trap they bring.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Fairfacts Media (370 comments) says:

    So instead of rule from Scotland, which has in reality meant Britain being ruled by a disproportionate number of Scots such as Gordon Brown and Alastair Darling, we are now going to see Scotland being ruled from Brussels.
    So much for independence!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. anonymouse (651 comments) says:

    @all on red, But Switzerland is a member of Schengen, the UK is not..

    Scotland would have a choice
    Either stay in the EU and thus presumably keep border free travel to England and Wales and Nth Ireland,

    or join Schengen, and gain border free travel to those European countries who are member, but noting that England, Wales and Nth Ireland are NOT Schengen countries, they would then require Scots travelling over the borders to present passports at the border… Talk about a Gordian knot…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. thomasbeagle (78 comments) says:

    I don’t see why they need to have their own currency. It’s quite possible to have a country and use the currency of another country.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. anonymouse (651 comments) says:

    @thomasbeagle, Ask Argentina how that worked out for them,

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. Mary Rose (392 comments) says:

    >It’s quite possible to have a country and use the currency of another country.

    If Scotland walks out on the UK, I suspect that England (especially) of the remainder will say: “P— off then and shut the door on your way out.”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. YesWeDid (1,002 comments) says:

    Scottish banks already issue their own bank notes which are known as the ‘Scottish Pound’, it is interchangeable with the British pound and is the same value.

    If the Scots vote for independence I don’t see why that situation should change.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. RAS (55 comments) says:

    That’s exactly like what the separatists in Quebec tried to do during the last referendum. They bullshitted about how people could keep Canadian passports, use Canadian money, be part of NAFTA etc.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. andyscrase (89 comments) says:

    They will also have to provide free tertiary education to the whole of the UK, under EU law. Currently, they are only required to provide this for Scottish residents and citizens of other EU countries, but not England and Wales

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Mary Rose (392 comments) says:

    YWD>If the Scots vote for independence I don’t see why that situation should change.

    At the risk of repeating myself: because the English would have to agree to it.
    Maybe they would, but I don’t see it as something Scotland can be sure of.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. kowtow (6,701 comments) says:

    We want independence but will join the EU to be ruled by unelected/unaccountable bureaucrats.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. tvb (3,939 comments) says:

    Salmon does want to have his cake and eat it too. Including having England take on all the public debt. I bet Salmon is shifty on that as well.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. andyscrase (89 comments) says:

    Salmond is also going to expect England to take all its excess wind energy when it overproduces, and take England’s energy when the wind isn’t blowing. He will also expect the English to pay for the ROC subsidies on the turbines.

    In the meantime, he won’t have a tourist industry left because he will have turned Scotland into an industrial wind park (large parts of it already are)

    At the recent SNP conference in Perth a large number of anti-wind protestors turned up (including pensioners who had never been on a protest before). Some of the MSPs and SNP members swore at the protestors.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. MH (558 comments) says:

    As long as us NZ descendants(ascendants) of scots families can get a passport then I’m all for it. Moch aye.
    The subs at Faslane are the next big worry.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. lastmanstanding (1,154 comments) says:

    IMHO England will be well rid of Scotland providing that the Scots have to front up for ALL their costs so no subsidies for pensions benefits health service etc etc. If I was a Pom I would be saying let the Scots have their independence but Salmon like all scots will want his cake and eat it to.
    He will want all the pluses and none of the minuses and if Cameron is stupid enough he will go along with it so the English will be lumbered with proping up the Scots.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. alwyn (359 comments) says:

    @YesWeDid at 11.37am
    It is a little more complicated than that.
    Apart from a fairly token amount, the amount of notes thay had on issue in 1844 I believe, the Scottish banks that issue their own bank notes are required to hold Bank of England notes to the value of the notes they are issuing. If they have a billion pounds of Scottish notes on issue they are required to hold a billion pounds of Bank of England notes in their vaults. They are more a form of vanity publishing than anything else.
    Interestingly the notes are not legal tender, even in Scotland. You are not required to accept them in settlement of a debt, although they are readily accepted in Scotland and fairly universally accepted in Northern England. The further south you go the harder it is to get firms to take them so it is best to exchange the for Sterling immediately you leave Scotland. I suspect that is because they are not common there and people can’t be sure they are real.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. trout (865 comments) says:

    Thankyou for that explanation. I have just aquired from a traveling spouse a 5 pound note issued by the Clydesdale Bank. On the note there is a declaration that the ‘Clydesdale Bank promises to pay to the Bearer on demand Five Pounds Sterling at their office here By Order of the Board of Directors’. The bank of Scotland makes a similar promise on their banknotes. A bit like the promise on early banknotes here to redeem them for gold – try it now!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. simonway (356 comments) says:

    If Scotland wants to be an independent country, they need to independently join the EU, negotiate its own opt outs, and have its own currency.

    Will the new United Kingdom of England and Wales and Northern Ireland have to do this as well?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.