No “shares plus”

October 15th, 2012 at 4:58 pm by David Farrar

John Key has announced:

Prime Minister John Key today outlined the Government’s next steps to prepare Mighty River Power for its partial sale in the first half of 2013.

“I’m pleased to announce today Cabinet made three decisions regarding our shares sales programme:

“First, the Government will not implement the Waitangi Tribunal’s ‘shares plus’ concept, or engage in further negotiations in relation to that concept, before the sale of shares in our energy companies.

Good. This will almost inevitably see the Maori Council go to court – which was also pretty inevitable. They have to make the case that the Government reducing its shareholding from 100% to 51% means they will be unable to resolve any claims around water rights. Considering Contact Energy was sold 100%, without any loss of ability, I think this is a hard case to make. The bigger danger is an injunction until the full case is decided. That is why the sale is delayed until after March next year.

“Second, the Government will proceed to remove Mighty River Power from the State Owned Enterprises Act. We will prepare an Order in Council for Cabinet and Executive Council to consider and approve on Tuesday 23 October.

“And finally, we will direct officials to continue to work towards a sale of up to 49 per cent of the shares in Mighty River Power between March and June 2013.”

Good. This was at the centre of the election campaign, and parties that said they would support this received the majority of seats in Parliament.

Mr Key says the Government’s position on water has always been very clear:

  • In common law no one owns water.
  • Maori do have rights and interests in water, and these will continue to be addressed through a range of processes such as Treaty settlements, the Government’s Fresh Start for Fresh Water programme and dialogue with iwi leaders.
  • The partial sale of Mighty River Power does not impact on the Crown’s ability to recognise Maori rights and interests in water.

A nice summary.

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46 Responses to “No “shares plus””

  1. Keeping Stock (10,104 comments) says:

    Good stuff from Key and Co. The sooner that MRP goes on the block the better.

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  2. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Finally – someone has found some balls (aka – testicles)

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  3. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    Good. This was at the centre of the election campaign, and parties that said they would support this received the majority of seats in Parliament.

    They won’t next time, I think asset sales will be the undoing of this government, it seems like political suicide to me.

    Still, if a government gets to the point that they are completely blinded by ideology then it’s time they were booted out of office.

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  4. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    ooohhh tough on Maori …. yes I’ll defnintely vote National now… or, wait….

    and “fourth we will enter private discussions on alternative forms of compensation with our iwi partners wink wink nudge nudge say no more eh”

    Nothing that giving away a few extra prime beaches cant fix.

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  5. simo (150 comments) says:

    Shdabada – mate next time you arrive at A&E with a finger missing – you get the best medical services in the world. You obviously think like the Greens – its the money tree at the bottom of the garden that pays for all these services.

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  6. Manolo (13,380 comments) says:

    Let the greedy Stone Agers challenge the decision in court. They will end up even more discredited.

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  7. Mark (1,363 comments) says:

    It has taken long enough. The advice from the Crown Law Office et all must be fairly robust but it has been a while comming. I expect there will some gnashing of teeth but the reality is that whether you are for or against Key et al were very clear during the election that this was a policy platform. There can be no arguments regarding mandate as National delayed the process until after the election to give prople the opportunity to kick them out if their was real disagreement.

    They now need to get on with it. Hopefully this is a signal that the government is taking a strong position on flakey Maori claims for air, water and radio waves.

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  8. tvb (4,209 comments) says:

    The sale of a minority shareholding in a company does not alter the obligations of that company regarding water rights, it does not alter the Crown’s obligations regarding water. However with the issue unresolved with possible additional costs being imposed on the company that could impact on the sale price.

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  9. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Ha they weren’t discredited about the airwaves, 2 degrees is doing quite nicely thank you. Nor about the beaches – national handed them back wimpering all the way.

    lets see how it will go – the government will pay for top lawyers to argue for and new graduates to argue against. then they will come to a water lease “arrangement”.

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  10. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    The additional costs wont impact on the sale price, they’ll impact on your electricity bill. All Key has done is put off letting you know ow much that impact will be until after the asset is sold. What a sly one.

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  11. Viking2 (11,144 comments) says:

    Yep.

    The Courts must be right out of Hearing Time for at least 6 months and the MC should have to post costs.

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  12. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    … fast forward…

    Today Hon Chris Finlayson has announced the government had reached a compromise on the issue of leasing rights of water from Maori. Speaking from the Tangata Whenua marae where he was hosted to the Maori equivalent of a state banquet he said that because the extra electricity charges would disproportionately affect the poor the government had decided to fund 90% from tax revenue.

    In a joint statement the government, and the new owner of the electricity companies, IwiPower, said they were very pleased with the deal.

    Former race relations commission, Joris de (I’m not biased) fuckwit (aka Boris) said “it is a very creative solution indeed”.

    Critics of the scheme said…and now in other news….

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  13. RF (1,272 comments) says:

    Good work JK.. Time Maori was reminded that we all have to live together as equals.

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  14. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Mr Key says the Government’s position on water has always been very clear:

    In common law no one owns water.

    I’m sure all the chiefs who signed the treaty had an intimate understanding of the intricacies of English common law. And the chiefs who didn’t sign the treaty…

    Maori do have rights and interests in water, and these will continue to be addressed through a range of processes such as Treaty settlements, the Government’s Fresh Start for Fresh Water programme and dialogue with iwi leaders.

    In other words, “The colonisation project commenced in 1840 is ongoing and in good health.”

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  15. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Luc; Do you think we should all go back to Africa, where we all came from before we started “colonising” the planet?

    If not, why?

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  16. Nostalgia-NZ (4,913 comments) says:

    I think this is the important and critical part, first posturing then reality..

    ‘Maori do have rights and interests in water, and these will continue to be addressed through a range of processes such as Treaty settlements, the Government’s Fresh Start for Fresh Water programme and dialogue with iwi leaders.

    The partial sale of Mighty River Power does not impact on the Crown’s ability to recognise Maori rights and interests in water.’

    I think JK was always going to do a deal because he realised he had to, the Government has sounded out it’s likely position with iwi and proceed with some confidence because of that I assume. Tu Wharetoa sp? I think it was made it clear they would negotiate on their own part and negotiations were already part way down the track over water rights in the Taupo region. Unfortunately, the Maori King perhaps will be more cautious in the future in his belief of who he speaks on behalf of.

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  17. KH (687 comments) says:

    A little step in returning us to one nation. Hopefully followed through and one of many.

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  18. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    National said the same about the airwaves…labour said the iwi can have airwaves
    Labour said “the beaches and seabed are owned by all New Zealanders”
    National gave them to the Iwi…
    ….

    “Maori do have rights and interests in water, and these will continue to be addressed through a range of processes such as Treaty settlements, the Government’s Fresh Start for Fresh Water programme and dialogue with iwi leaders.”

    Translation: “We will privatise all water in New Zealand and Maori will get a big share”.

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  19. KH (687 comments) says:

    Whatever was given to Maori was never going to be enough. Whatever was granted will always lead to court action. The graspers will never be satisfied.

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  20. Nostalgia-NZ (4,913 comments) says:

    ‘The graspers will never be satisfied.’

    Either will the knockers.

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  21. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Kev you appear to be avoiding things, please show the figures that show iwi have been given one trillion dollars

    A clue is the top 400 wealthiest Americans can only muster 1.37 trillion amongst themselves

    Bill Gates is only worth a paltry 50 Billion and he’s the wealthiest.

    NZ GDP is I believe in the vicinity of 150 billion, which is 850 billion short of adding up to a trillion.

    Please enlighten because you appear to be the only one that has access to these figures, not even the internet

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  22. Keeping Stock (10,104 comments) says:

    @ Kevin; when did National give the beaches to the iwi?

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  23. calendar girl (1,175 comments) says:

    “Still, if a government gets to the point that they are completely blinded by ideology then it’s time they were booted out of office.”

    What ideology? The ideology of moving Government operating budgets out of deficit into surplus within the next two-to-three years? I’m totally in favour of that.

    The ideology of Government ceasing to own outright three major electricity generators (as well as the National Grid)? I’m also totally in favour of that – in the interests of more broadly-based corporate governance and of greater competition in the electricity market.

    The ideology of major operating businesses attracting part of their development capital from investors other than New Zealand’s over-taxed payers of income tax, company tax and GST? I’m also totally in favour of that.

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  24. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock asks

    @ Kevin; when did National give the beaches to the iwi?

    Kev- another bolt from the blue that no one else seems to be aware of, please enlighten moi where I can read up on this.

    Mind you if you say -The Avondale RSA on Friday night – I’ll win a few bob because I do suspect you have a mole there who is supplying you with all this information that is news to many here.

    If you don’t have a source you are behaving suspiciously like David Shearer and just making shit up to get some attention

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  25. jaba (2,089 comments) says:

    when the shit hits the fan and yet another march over the bridge happens, it will time to call an early election .. the people of NZ, well most of them, are not stupid and know that we can’t afford a Labour/Gween/Mana/Winnyst govt

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  26. RF (1,272 comments) says:

    Jaba

    100% agree with you.

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  27. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Paul you know that neither of us can prove the claims for the bet right now, me because of stonewalling by the ministers. If you want it the bet is on. it not forget it.

    Here is the link. Joris de porkchop is either wrong or has made a bad slip of the tongue. One day we will know which.

    “To date $1,018,697 million has been committed to final and comprehensive settlements and several part settlements. This includes $19.846 million paid as claimant funding separate from the negotiated settlement redress. ”

    http://www.hrc.co.nz/hrc_new/hrc/cms/files/documents/14-Oct-2009_14-20-09_Race_Relations_in_2008_HTML.html

    KS (and PEB) in the meantime a quick few lines from the same 2008 report…

    “The Deed of Agreement contains nine instruments that provide legal recognition and protection of the mana of ngā hapü o Ngāti Porou. The deed also provides an additional level of protection and authority where territorial customary rights are recognised. The Deed of Agreement contains a provision giving the iwi the right to give or refuse to give permission to resource consents in their area and to make bylaws under customary fishing regulations. ”

    …and thats under the old tougher Labour legislation…

    Any certified nutbar who doesn’t think that access to the beaches and sea resources will increasingly be carved up between iwi and their public/private partners needs to wake up and change their sheets.

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  28. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    girlie what about the idea of privatising all our land and assets to the iwi who then sell them for a 1000% profit?

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  29. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Obviously a slip of the tongue Kevin, Jesus, nobody pays the slighist bit of attention to what that fucking idiot says except those living in fear of the hori’s taking over.

    Please explain how Jorges the marxist would be privy to all this information.

    Locals being able to rahui the take on local seafood beds is old news, again stop living in fear, nobodys stopping you from going for a swim but they can put a ban on holiday makers fucking the mussell beds again this is old news you’re like an old woman, half a fucking story and running off to tell teacher

    But you are stating things as facts when they are not to shit stir. TOW settlements are at about 2.5 billion which is 997.5 billion short of your projected blow out. Fuck even if they cost another 50 billion which is also bullshit its still 950 billion short.

    Only a nutbar would start quoting de Beres, do you not think the drunken dwarf would be all over this if he thought the govt had set aside the GDP of NZ for the next 10 years for TOW.

    Think about and sign yourself into a Ward 8 somewhere things are getting on top of you

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  30. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Oh Paul you need to climb out and go to some of the HRC meetings around the place – Joris had a big budget for many years to tout his bullshit. I’ve been to a number of them.

    Well at least I’ve raised the ante from $1 Billion to $2.5-50 billion and climbing.

    Wake up New Zealand.

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  31. Toa Greening (20 comments) says:

    This decision while expected is still disgraceful.

    I attended the Auckland Hui at the Novotel Hotel on February 10th. At the question session it became
    apparent that government was very naïve with regards to how companies operate in an open market. It
    was also apparent that Government had done no analysis of SOE versus Private company
    performance, profit, capacity delivered, price competitiveness etc. My conclusion at the end of the Hui
    was that Government had not considered the long-term impacts of New Zealand’s main Electricity
    suppliers operating with a profit driven mandate and open market culture.

    Open market practices in the electricity generation and supply can lead to incessant industry lobbying
    for regulatory concessions, market manipulations, asset stripping, running down of assets, running
    down of companies, implementation of minimal safety standards, market cornering, price gouging,
    predatory acquisitions, predatory closures, overpricing for government works, blocking of new
    developments by competitors, blocking of regulatory legislation, lobbying for industry biased national
    standards and manufactured market instabilities to name a few. You need only follow Contact Energy
    operations over the past decade for the proof.

    It is obvious that this behaviour will be disastrous to the New Zealand’s electricity generation and
    supply if these sales are allowed to proceed. Yet Government is demonstrating a concerning lack of
    any form of analysis, foresight or basic economic common sense to the sales.

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  32. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Kev

    You’re a sad fuck really

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  33. Toa Greening (20 comments) says:

    Below are the principals of the SOE Act

    State-Owned Enterprises Act 1986
    4 Principal objective to be successful business
    (1) The principal objective of every State enterprise shall be to operate as a successful business and, to
    this end, to be—
    (a) as profitable and efficient as comparable businesses that are not owned by the Crown; and
    (b) a good employer; and
    (c) an organisation that exhibits a sense of social responsibility by having regard to the interests of the
    community in which it operates and by endeavouring to accommodate or encourage these when able to
    do so.

    Without these in place the new mixed ownership companies will do everything to increase revenue and electricity prices.

    If you think electricity prices are high now wait until they are privatised…….

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  34. Griff (6,815 comments) says:

    Principles of the Treaty
    http://www.waitangi-tribunal.govt.nz/doclibrary/public/Appendix(99).pdf

    The freedom of the Crown to govern
    On the freedom of the Crown to govern, Justice Cooke ruled that:
    The principles of the Treaty do not authorise unreasonable restrictions on the right of a duly
    elected government to follow its chosen policy. Indeed, to try and shackle the Government
    unreasonably would itself be inconsistent with those principles.
    15
    Also, Justice Bisson observed that:
    it is in accordance with the principles of the Treaty that the Crown should provide laws and
    make related decisions for the community as a whole having regard to the economic and other
    needs of the day.

    The extent of partnership
    the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi . . . are taking effect only slowly but nevertheless
    surely. It is as well to stress also that they are of limited scope . . . As regards those Crown
    assets to which the principles do apply, this Court has already said in the forests case that
    partnership certainly does not mean that every asset or resource in which Maori have some
    justifiable claim to share must be divided equally.

    Impact of the treaty on unknown technology and resources when it was signed
    however liberally Maori customary title and Treaty rights may be construed, tourism and
    whale watching are remote from anything in fact contemplated by the original parties to the
    Treaty. Ngai Tahu’s claim to a veto must be rejected.

    Right to power generation
    The essence of what has been said above is that neither under the common law doctrine of
    aboriginal title, nor under the Treaty of Waitangi, nor under any New Zealand statute have
    Maori . . . had preserved or assured to them any right to generate electricity by the use of water
    power.
    35

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  35. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    OMFG Chris Finlayson is a sleazy, sick, born to rule little fucka. Watch 1.20 – 2 min if you’re pushed for time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xautfzXsKYQ

    Only in NZ could a lawyer feeding heavily from the indigenous rights trough then be made the government negotiator charged with indigenous claims. What a fiasco National.

    Make even Paul look like he’s got a neuron in the cranium.

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  36. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Oh yeah another little anecdote for paul of no balls fame….

    When my children were in primary school over 20 years ago the school could not takle the headlouse problem because it was against the spirit of the treaty of Waitangi. He he he white liberals telling my Maori children they couldnt do anything about the school headlice problem……

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  37. duggledog (1,359 comments) says:

    Well these marvellous electricity assets we all supposedly own – I’ve never received a dividend. In fact, they’ve been used to supply a whopping dividend of what was it, a 70% increase during Clark’s administration? For the government’s coffers, to blow on whatever?

    Take them out of state ownership. They can’t be trusted.

    Electricity is just another consumable as far as I’m concerned – if whoever owns them when they are partially sold puts the prices up too high well they’ll have no customers. It’s generated in NZ for NZ customers and comparatively it’s still pretty cheap. So long as you don’t have a spa pool, a load of TVs, heated towel rails and insist on leaving all the lights on all the time.

    My total monthly energy bill – family of five – $200 incl LPG for hot water & a gas hob. We have a wood burner.

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  38. Tom Jackson (2,458 comments) says:

    When my children were in primary school over 20 years ago the school could not takle the headlouse problem because it was against the spirit of the treaty of Waitangi.

    Clearly demented.

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  39. Viking2 (11,144 comments) says:

    Someone was ranting the other day about how the 2degree’s Telco was doing. (now remeber it has Maori involved.)./

    2degrees’ majority owner Trilogy International has seen the “junk” credit rating on hundreds of millions of dollars it owes bond holders cut from bad to worse by Standard & Poor’s.

    The cut left some analysts questioning whether and how mobile phone company 2degrees would be able to fend off stronger price competition from Telecom and Vodafone and fund the upgrade of its network to next-generation 4G technology.

    S&P cut the rating of US$370m of bonds that Trilogy issued in 2010 from CCC+ to CCC, while leaving its B- corporate credit rating unchanged.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7818889/S-Ps-cut-to-rating-affects-2degrees

    So how is that going to end?

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  40. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Taxpayer bailout

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  41. Nostalgia-NZ (4,913 comments) says:

    I see Griff arguing that because there was nothing specific about hydro power in the TOW it therefore falls in favour of the Crown. clearly JK sees the reality.

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  42. Griff (6,815 comments) says:

    Nostalgia-NZ
    read my post of the details in the principles of treaty it explains
    1 jk is right to sell the assets
    2 Maori have no right under the treaty to stop the lawful government from governing
    3 Maori have no right over power generation under the treaty
    4 Maori may have a right under the treaty to some say over the use of water ways hence jk will negotiate treaty claims involved in fresh water direct with the IWI effected.
    As usual I have posted the source of my information. It comes direct from the waitangi tribunal giving the rational for JKs standpoint. If you disagree with my inference from the principles post the reason why or shut the fuck up

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  43. flipper (3,570 comments) says:

    Griff…. et al ….

    “Bisson J.” – in reality a lightweight, conveyancer from Napier, elevated above his ability (his departure from Hawkes Bay was seen as IMPROVING the balance of legal ability between Napier and Wellington – to paraphrase Rob Muldoon ) simply to fill a “it’s your (HB) turn” political need. Likewise Cooke of Thorndon – the idiot who at a 1970 Broadcasting Tribunal hearing on a TV licence application, seriously argued that *** Sesame Street *** would be bad for the “New Zealand culture”, quotin g the use of terms such as trash cans and cookies. That is actual level of reality applied by the NZ legal profession to the TOW issue.
    Don’t waste time.
    Let’s move on. :)

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  44. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    But the waterways deals were marketed as “full and final settlements”. Did the government and iwi lie? The Treaty of Waitangi, the gift that keeps on giving.

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  45. Paulus (2,503 comments) says:

    I see that the maori legal cause is going to be led by former Deputy Solicitor General Palmer, as he did not get the top job he resigned.
    I assume that he has an auspicious father, who as a Labour Minister, helped Fat Lange to stuff things up totally, so he can ask father how to go about copying him in this.

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  46. Nostalgia-NZ (4,913 comments) says:

    Griff 7.34

    You’re a boring little man, a feather dusters at 200 metres type.

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