Stupid

October 13th, 2012 at 12:00 pm by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

 Mr Shearer admits Labour does not have “a smoking gun”, but says that “at the same time Key can’t prove that he didn’t know.”

What a stupid statement. It is absolutely impossible for anyone to prove they didn’t know something. I call on to prove he didn’t know about John Smith jaywalking in Auckland three years ago.

Sad to see David Shearer go down the Phil Goff route.

Fran O’Sullivan notes:

 David Shearer has scored a glorious own goal – the caucus knives will be sharpening.

You don’t make accusations of this nature based on rumour.

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99 Responses to “Stupid”

  1. kowtow (8,524 comments) says:

    Wait for the assembled brains trust of our MSM go like the hounds of hell at Shearer on this……….didn’t think so.

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  2. flipper (4,084 comments) says:

    To repeat:
    AS I SAID YESTERDAY:

    *** “The Spy who came in for the MOLD”. ***

    Like it? Use it. It’s yours.

    (With acknowledgments to celebrated cartoonist (their best!) Eric Heath of the late Dominion newspaper.)

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  3. Reid (16,513 comments) says:

    It’s going to be a great day when GCSB announces it’s prosecuting this former employee for breaching the Government Communications Security Bureau Act 2003.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10840247

    If it establishes a leak, the GCSB’s legislation carries a penalty of up to two years in prison.

    Awwwwwwwwwwwww.

    I wonder how long Fran Mold’s going to last when Shearer goes? Do you think any of the other caucus members will want her “skills” since she’s done such a wonderful job with Shearer?

    Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

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  4. Ross12 (1,432 comments) says:

    Clearly a set up from within Labou, on Shearer. ( It is so stupid there can be no other interpretation )

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  5. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    You would’nt have this cock stacking shelves at New World, he’s too stupid –

    the accusation wasn’t made on rumour it was made up – full stop. A total fabrication

    Shearer is just a fucking liar and and idiot with it, makes him perfect to lead the labour party into the next election.

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  6. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    I don’t know if this was the original goal but Labour seem to have settled on “Key didn’t deny it and can’t prove he didn’t say it” as their victory. They have abandoned the video non-evidence and are repeating and repeating Key’s reaction as being the problem (standard tactics as posted in Repeat of Labour’s dirty politics).

    They are pushing this hard at The Standard, Anthony Robins in Shearer, Key, credibility

    Video of Key’s first reaction here – “I don’t recall it”. Just like every other evasion Key has ever offered. What he didn’t say was – “That’s not possible, such a video couldn’t exist, because I has no knowledge of Kim Dotcom at that time”. Why the shifty tactics instead, do you think?

    And endless Labour hack comments:

    Te Reo Putake:
    No, it’s not, Chris. Shearer has never made any claim that requires proof from him. He’s raised the possibility, but never outright claimed Key made a joke about Dotcom at the meeting. Key fell into the trap of giving subsatnce to the claim, then went into Bart Simpson mode.

    mickysavage
    But Key’s lame ham fisted and possum caught in the headlights performance when questioned by Patrick Gower really makes you think that he did talk about Dotcom that fateful day.

    mickysavage …
    If Shearer has no proof why didn’t Key rubbish the idea from the start? His initial response suggested that he believed he had talked about Dotcom.

    mickysavage …
    Um my (quite gentle) criticism is that it was a risky manoeuvre and the potential gains were not great. But it does appear to be successful.

    It is a sign of Key’s ungainly slide from grace that he has handled this so poorly and it is a measure of deepening scepticism in Key that the focus is on him and not on Shearer.

    I am in two minds about it. I do not think that it is a simple “Shearer has no proof therefore it did not happen” situation. It does however further damage Key in his most vulnerable area, his credibility.

    irascible
    The speculation about KeY’s involvement in the DotCom spying activities will coninue to swirl and stick to him and his immediate side-kick, Banks. All Shearer has to do is to keep up the chorus of “Show us the evidence, John, that demonstrates that you are an honest broker.” As there is no evidence available that KeY is an honest broker the hammering can and will continue despite the blusterings of Fran O’Shillavan,

    ed
    Its not up to Shearer to provide anything, he could well be making that shit up.

    The crux of the matter is Key not denying he said it because he hadnt heard of Dotcom.

    freedom
    If he was played a recording there is no doubt that a copy of the recording or a recording of Mr Shearer viewing/hearing the recording was taken at the time ( and if not why not ?)

    Bottom line though is plausable deniability and Mr Key has zilch credit in that account

    bbfloyd
    You can’t be serious Bm…. “show us the tape”!!1 That would qualify as the next best thing to an admission of guilt you can get…..

    You know, people really aren’t that stupid not to recognize the actions of a guilty man playing the age old game of you can’t catch me, so it didn’t happen….

    Stephen
    This isn’t a court of law, with a presumption of innocence and a need for evidence of facts. This is a court of opinion. And anyone who knows anything about human nature knows that in a dialogue like this:

    A: You told a lie about X
    B: I don’t remember, and anyway, prove it

    … B has not come off better.

    felix
    Whatever chris. If Key was as smart as you he could’ve denied it and then Shearer would be on the ropes where you want him.

    But Key didn’t deny it. He could have done but he didn’t, and that’s where we are now.

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  7. Manolo (13,838 comments) says:

    A sackable offense. Poor Shearer looks sillier and sillier by the day.
    Robertson must be rubbing his hands in glee, although Silent T has a strong chance.

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  8. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    God people, my pet collie has a longer attention span.

    This whole sorry affair is all because of that Shearer bloke – God, he’s so stupid.

    There was I thinking this sorry clusterf**k was all caused by John Key and the Security/police force being f**n incompetent and all along it’s been about the Leader of the Opposition is stupid.

    No wonder he will be toppled by his own party – quite soon.

    Shearer – what an idiot, eh? If only he was clever. Like us. Who could never be so easily distracted.

    Fetch!….

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  9. hannity (152 comments) says:

    I’m still waiting for John Key to deny he didnt discuss Dotcom with staff at GCSB, in Feb.
    So far he hasn’t bothered , just some childish bleat “prove it”
    Spose he has to leave some slime room, for when the inevitable proof comes to light.
    John Key fails again to reach self imposed low standards.
    All you right wing turd polishers must be proud.

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  10. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    In case you are wondering, they won’t have me at the Standard, I can’t even log on….

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  11. jaba (2,143 comments) says:

    I think it is a shame that a smart hard-working family man like David Shearer thought he could make a difference to his country by joining a political party with the aim of one day becoming PM and then he fucked it all up by joining Labour.
    David, give Helen a ring and get out NOW before Mallard/Robertson and the others destroy you

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  12. jedmo (33 comments) says:

    Exactly what you said DPF. I just listened to the interview, Rodney Hide was completely on point “…no evidence…next you’ll ask John Key to prove he hasn’t had sex with a goat…your junior MPs could be pursuing this sort of (dodgy approach) line of questioning but from the Leader of the Opposition we expect some gravitas…” Thanks, Rodney

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  13. bringbackdemocracy (427 comments) says:

    No wonder they’re having a job summit, Shearer may be looking for one very soon.

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  14. hannity (152 comments) says:

    q to John Key from Jedmo, Did you have sex with a goat.?

    John Key, ” Cant recall,not able to comment, operational matter, prove it.”

    Yeah good example Jedmo.

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  15. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    This is a bit desperate, isn’t it? The damage is already done – when faced with the prospect there might be a recording, Key immediately backtracked on saying he didn’t make the comments, shifting to this govt’s favourite mantra “I can’t recall.” Now he has to settle for “You can’t prove I did it.” If he wasn’t caught with his pants on fire he’s doing a damn good impression of someone who was. Whether there actually was a recording or not is hardly relevant – we can now be pretty confident that Key did know about GCSB’s work on Dotcom and has been trying to bullshit us otherwise, so the only outstanding issue is whether we’re looking at incompetence or malicious intent.

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  16. BlueGriffon (204 comments) says:

    Key was just referencing his favorite TV show and the spy misheard when he mentioned their website, the spy missed the reference to Kath: http://www.kathandkim.com/

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  17. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    I’ve also just blogged on the Fran O’Sullivan story, which includes this line:

    Senior Labour figures must be rolling their eyes at the way their leader’s crusade has blown up in his face.

    I was rather pleased with the final paragraph of my post:

    David Shearer was cock-a-hoop when 3News and Campbell Live went to air on Thursday. 36 hours later, he’s looking more like coq-au-vin.

    You almost feel sorry for the bloke…

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  18. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    I feel sorry for Shearer to an extent, but he was hoisted into an opportunity he hasn’t taken advantage of, he seems to have succumbed to severely misguided tuition and tactics. The opposite of what he said he would do in February, but it’s hard to remember what one has said back that far.

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  19. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    Psycho Milt Says:

    This is a bit desperate, isn’t it? The damage is already done

    That’s what those desparately wanting to knock Key down are hoping. A bit desperate isn’t it?

    The fact is the timing, the method and the execution were abysmal by Shearer and whoever is managing him. And a totally unneccesary risk. Now he has lost any credibility with GCSB, may have lost a few people their jobs (including himself), and for what? Trying to preach Key hatred to the converted?

    More than a bit desperate.

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  20. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    This is rather like the spin in the US over Big Bird – Romney’s answer to the government deficit problem (if one even accepts that the US really does have a deficit problem). Romney proposes it then when the Dems run with the deserved ridicule of the idea the GOP types deflect as if Romney wasn’t the inspiration.

    In this case, the threat that a recording may exist meant that Key has had to publicly backtrack on his previous assurances, a step he will have to very publicly reinforce when he stands in the House next Tuesday.

    A balloon was floated and it put the prime minister in a pretty pickle (aren’t mixed metaphors lovely at a time like this?).

    And Honest John still refuses to read a police report that will inform him that John Banks lied to him?

    Mud…sticking…

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  21. Doug (410 comments) says:

    Psycho:

    Key may well have mentioned Dot Com he had been headlines a month prior to Key’s meeting with the GCSB. The guts to the story is did he know about the GCSB spying at the time of the meeting with the staff or later on.

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  22. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Not being a political sort of an animal really. I cant believe there is actually a middle-aged women called Fran Mold who has gone thru her life to this stage without changing her bloody name. :) :)

    Tell me I am wrong folks?

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  23. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    Johnboy, I don’t know if she’s changed her description but it does look like she could be past her use-by date.

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  24. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Honestly though PG it is like being called Richard Head or Wayne Kerr. Her parents must of hated the poor bitch! :)

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  25. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Luc

    I believe the last straw has just slipped away giving you bugger all to clutch at over this mess.

    Sometimes the indefensible is just that

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  26. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    The fact is the timing, the method and the execution were abysmal by Shearer and whoever is managing him.

    He’s obviously no Macchiavelli and most likely will never get a soubriquet like “the smiling assassin,” but those aren’t really features most people want in their political leaders (what you want and what you get often being different things, of course). However, in this case he’s done a pretty good job. Key’s had to fall back on “I can’t remember and anyway you can’t prove I did it,” which is something people say only when the alternative is “It’s a fair cop, guv.” He knows it, we know it, DPF and Fran O’Sullivan both know it too if they were honest about it. Good result.

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  27. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    Psycho Milt – Shearer destroys his credibility, possibly destroys any possibility of a working relationship with GCSB (apart from using them to push a minor point scoring exercise he accused them of deleting files off hard drives to cover up), possibly destroys a career or two at GCSB, exposes an ex GCSB employee and makes the position of his chief press secretary virtually untenable.

    Is that the good result you were referring to?

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  28. tom hunter (4,895 comments) says:

    Sometimes the indefensible is just that

    To the man who has never been ashamed of anything he’s done in his life and who learned how to debate by standing in protest marches hitting the kettle drum called his head in order to bellow out soundbites, nothing is indefensible if it supports his objectives. Just as an example:

    (if one even accepts that the US really does have a deficit problem)

    Here’s what one prominent economist had to say about that:

    Well, basically we have a world-class budget deficit not just as in absolute terms of course – it’s the biggest budget deficit in the history of the world – but it’s a budget deficit that as a share of GDP is right up there.

    It’s comparable to the worst we’ve ever seen in this country.

    It’s bigger [sic] than Argentina in 2001.

    Which is not cyclical, there’s only a little bit that’s because the economy is depressed. Mostly it’s because, fundamentally, the government isn’t taking in enough money to pay for the programs and we have no strategy of dealing with it.

    So, if you take a look, the only thing that sustains the U.S. right now is the fact that people say, ‘Well America’s a mature, advanced country and mature, advanced countries always, you know, get their financial house in order,’ but there’s not a hint that that’s on the political horizon, so I think we’re looking for a collapse of confidence some time in the not-too-distant future.

    It’s why that guy is Luc’s economic hero: he’ll say anything to win an argument, even if it completely contradicts what he said before. Hypocrisy and double standards are no problem with either man.

    As the thread says – “Stupid”.

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  29. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Quite right PM. Sort of like Helen falling back on “I cannot leak”! :)

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  30. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    Shearer destroys his credibility…

    By reporting that staff at the GCSB contradict the PM’s attempted weaseling about what he knew of illegal activity by the GCSB? Only if you’re an arse-kisser to the PM.

    …possibly destroys any possibility of a working relationship with GCSB…

    Actually, we have pretty solid evidence that staff at the GCSB seem happy to deal with him.

    …possibly destroys a career or two at GCSB…

    I worked in the public service for a few years back in the 90s, and can assure you that whistleblowers aren’t in any doubt about what they’re getting themselves into.

    …exposes an ex GCSB employee…

    What, Shearer works for the PM’s office now?

    …and makes the position of his chief press secretary virtually untenable.

    Yeah, I’m sure the weight of your disapproval has her pondering her resignation letter right now.

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  31. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    The vast majority of US debt is domestic and it is all issued in US dollars. The lesson in the quote above is that the US needs only to get its revenue side sorted (and pull its head in militarily) to sort out the deficit. And if it went to a public health system like ours the deficit would turn into a surplus.

    Krugman is referring more to to the dysfunctional political system that is prohibiting sensible fiscal adjustment, and in my opinion confidence in that has collapsed already. Still, the US remains overwhelmingly the preferred safe haven for investors.

    Interestingly, the current US fiscal deficit is less as a proportion of GDP than ours was last year, and only about one third again bigger than ours is projected to be at the end of the current fiscal year.

    In his more optimistic moods, Krugman is much more sanguine about US debt levels than he appears in your carefully selected quote. In fact, he is currently advocating that the US expands its borrowing programme to invest in its deteriorating infrastructure while interest rates are at an all time low.

    So sure, the US political impasse makes the deficit and debt situations problematic, but by itself US debt is not at crisis level.

    For those interested in facts rather than fighting for the sake of it, the graphs here

    http://delong.typepad.com/

    make for stark comparisons between the more relaxed US approach to debt and the stupidity of the British Austerians.

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  32. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Paul Krugman is a reflective mood…

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/smuggish-thoughts-self-indulgent/

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  33. Reid (16,513 comments) says:

    Yeah, I’m sure the weight of your disapproval has her pondering her resignation letter right now.

    Let’s hope she’s also contemplating about 2 years of living alone while her partner serves his time for breaching the Government Communications Security Bureau Act 2003.

    But seriously, as if landing her partner in prison wasn’t bad enough, Mold has once again proven herself about as useful as a chocolate teapot by allowing her employer whom she’s supposed to be helping, to get himself into yet another PR train wreck by setting him up with a deliciously juicy story WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE HE CAN TRIUMPHANTLY PRODUCE TO BACK UP WHAT FRAN TOLD HIM TO SAY. I mean fucking d’oh doesn’t really even begin to cover it, does it. Shearer might as well ask the PM if he could borrow HIS press secretary for awhile, seeing as his one seems to be broken.

    BTW, you’d think a Ph.D who worked at GCSB would familiarise himself with the bits of law that applied after he ceased his employment, wouldn’t you. Especially the bits that discussed nasty things like, er, prison… Perhaps he got his Ph.D at Open University.

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  34. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Fran O’Sullivan notes:

    ” David Shearer has scored a glorious own goal – the caucus knives will be sharpening.”

    Oh fran saying that is bound to make these leftie dummies see sense and not vote shearer……not

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  35. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    Actually, we have pretty solid evidence that staff at the GCSB seem happy to deal with him.

    Two. And one ex (Mold’s partner). They don’t sound like they are very high up the chain if they have leaked accusations that hard drives are being gathered, searched and videos (that never seem to have existed) are wiped.

    What, Shearer works for the PM’s office now?

    ??

    Whether Mold’s partner is involved in the leaking or not it would have only taken half a brain amongst them to have realised that the relationship between Shearer and Mold and between Mold and an ex GCSB employee would be exposed as a possible source of the leaks.

    The end result:
    – Key is likely to stay as PM until 2014 (at least, beyond that will be a struggle regardless).
    – Beyond his cheer squad Shearer’s already shaky leadership took a severe jolt.
    – If nothing else Mold’s media strategy has taken a sever beating.
    – Mold’s partner is further exposed and is possibily subject to GCSB secrecy requirements.
    – Two GCBS employees are in shaky positions.

    For what? Another of a long line of attempts to discredit Key. Did they really think this one would be a killer blow? Or did they misjudge the risk versus reward ratio along with every other misjudgement?

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  36. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Are Pete and PETE in with a chance in 2014 then Pete? :)

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  37. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Tally ho!

    Time to reopen the Brash emails case.

    Who better to eavesdrop on politicians email then than an electronic spook?

    Could the spying into National MPs emails that led to Brash’s downfall, be linked back to a mole in the GCSB?

    Was there a similar path, or even the same path, linking the spying in that case to Labour fanatics?

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  38. hannity (152 comments) says:

    Alledged goat fucker demands to see evidence, before issuing unequivocal denial.

    Yep, sounds like a rock solid defence ,to me.

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  39. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    So Shearer has said no smoking gun. That’s that then, for Shearer. But Key changed his tune at the thought a smoking gun may exist. Come Tuesday, Key’s ‘faulty memory’ will be centre stage again.

    Along with his shonky support of John Banks.

    And all the other misjudgments, not least appointing Hekia Parata to such an important ministry continue to mount.

    The difference between Shearer and Key is that Key is da boss. Shearer is the sideshow. The spotlight is on Key and he is squirming.

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  40. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Leftist Luc repeats Shearer’s mantra that there is no smoking gun.

    But there may be a s-mouldering cartridge case, eh Luc?

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  41. tom hunter (4,895 comments) says:

    In his more optimistic moods, Krugman is much more sanguine about US debt levels than he appears in your carefully selected quote.

    Funny that his more optimistic, sanguine moods coincide with those times when the President has a (D) after his name.

    I do love the sly way you imply that cherry-picking of quotes is going on here, as if I’d taken him out of context. In fact Krugman wrote a ton of other articles bemoaning the huge, terrifying deficits of the Bush era. It was quite the regular feature with him during that period. No mention in 2002/2003 of how deficits were good things to get a country out of a recession.

    More recently of course:

    So new budget projections show a cumulative deficit of $9 trillion over the next decade. According to many commentators, that’s a terrifying number, requiring drastic action — in particular, of course, canceling efforts to boost the economy and calling off health care reform.

    The truth is more complicated and less frightening. Right now deficits are actually helping the economy. In fact, deficits here and in other major economies saved the world from a much deeper slump. The longer-term outlook is worrying, but it’s not catastrophic.

    That’s from 2009, when the budget deficit would climb to over $1 trillion and the national debt pushed towards $11 trillion.

    His first statement about the big, scary deficits came when the budget deficit was about $400b and the national debt was under $9 trillion.

    Apparently this clown does not imagine that what he has said can and will be used against him in the arena of public common sense, but that’s what happens when one degenerates from being an ideologue to being a flat-out partisan fool.

    But by itself US debt is not at crisis level.

    Not yet, but in just three more years since that article was written it’s jumped from $11 trillion to $16 trillion: it’s the trend that’s the killer. As Hemingway once replied to the question of how he went broke: Gradually, then suddenly.

    After viewing these extensive quotes side by side this last point about Krugman should almost not be necessary, but …

    “Op-Ed columnist Paul Krugman has the disturbing habit of shaping, slicing and selectively citing numbers in a fashion that pleases his acolytes but leaves him open to substantive assaults.”

    That was from the editor of the paper Krugman writes for, the New York Times.

    There are other economists making the same arguments in favour of huge government spending, with deficits if need be. But they’re more consistent, less insanely partisan, and hence vastly more credible. You should stick to them.

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  42. Paw Prick (43 comments) says:

    This whole thing is stupid!
    Bottom line. Get your ducks in a row before you take your shot or you will miss.
    It reminds me of the life of Brian. He didn’t deny it so he must be the messiah.
    Good grief!

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  43. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    The Labour mob are sabotaging this thread by diverting the discussion to American economics.

    Labourites are running scared about what will emerge from the GCSB link.

    Not only about the Herr Dotcom aftermath, but about the Brash email sabotage.

    This trail is hot!

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  44. Reid (16,513 comments) says:

    So Shearer has said no smoking gun. That’s that then, for Shearer.

    Yes I’m afraid it is Luc. Shame, it would have great seeing Liarbore roll into the upcoming election with him at the helm, instead I imagine Silent-T will come charging through to take the reigns and won’t that make the Sisterhood/LGBT faction very happy and extremely cooperative indeed. All pulling together, at last, as a good team should. Hooray! Isn’t it fun being a lefty at this time Luc. I imagine you’re all very proud and happy. Things couldn’t be better for you, could they.

    I wonder why Shearer did it though. I mean surely even at the UN, you learn stuff like: if you make an allegation, normally you need to have some sort of evidence, lest people don’t necessarily take you at your word just because you said it was so. I mean it doesn’t take much horsepower to think that one through, does it. Perhaps Shearer really did think that because he was a UN hero with all that goodness behind and surrounding him in a sort of angelic aura, that when he became PM, all he’d need to do was say something such as “the economy is going fantastically and we’re on track for creating eleventy gajillion jobs by 3 PM next Wednesday” and that would be all there was to it. He wouldn’t even have to worry about all that stupid reality stuff, he’d just say it and presto, job done, great work, what a guy. Maybe he doesn’t actually think like that, I don’t really know but I have to ask, if he doesn’t really think that then why does he keep opening his mouth and just saying any old thing without a skerrick of actual evidence to back himself up?

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  45. tom hunter (4,895 comments) says:

    The Labour mob are sabotaging this thread by diverting the discussion to American economics.

    Fair point. In the midst of defending the hopeless Labour party Luc Hansen made one of his typical, casual throw-away comments – in this case one that ties to his favourite economist – and I could not resist taunting him about the man speaking out of both sides of his mouth.

    Apologies.

    I’ll be happy to join in the attacks on Key for other issues, but on this one – let the beating of Labour continue!

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  46. transmogrifier (522 comments) says:

    Pathetic. From Shearer, for being such a noob, to the Labour supporters on here blatantly ignoring the ridiculousness of his statement just because they have to support the team; that party is a total, utter rabble. They are best to self-destruct and let a rebranded centre-left party rise in its place, one with real leaders and a clue.

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  47. publicwatchdog (2,622 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10840247

    “The GCSB investigation has yet to establish whether a leak occurred. GCSB director Ian Fletcher said last night he was looking beyond his own staff to conduct the inquiry.

    “To ensure we can carry on with our business as usual as much as possible we will be bringing in appropriate external expertise to help conduct the inquiry.”

    If it establishes a leak, the GCSB’s legislation carries a penalty of up to two years in prison.

    ………………”

    Why is there now going to be an inquiry to establish whether or not a ‘leak’ occurred at GCSB – if the information ‘leaked’ to Labour Leader David Shearer – was not true?

    If there wasn’t any video evidence of NZ Prime Minister John Key mentioning Kim Dotcom, at the GCSB ‘briefing’ on 29 February 2012 – then why are they now looking for a mole that ‘leaked’ information about a video that doesn’t exist?

    ‘Seriously, if the tape doesn’t exist, then why waste money looking for a mole that gave out allegedly false information to Labour?

    Surely – the tape MUST exist because they are looking for the mole that revealed its existence to Labour?’

    (Thanks for the ‘heads up’ on this point Henk! )

    Haven’t the GCSB got more important things to do?

    Such as – ensuring that GCSB staff at the most senior levels and the Minister responsible for the GCSB (Prime Minister John Key), now know the lawful limitations of their statutory duties, and how to check the residential status of persons residing in New Zealand?

    What is the penalty for those GCSB staff at the most senior levels and the Minister responsible for the GCSB (Prime Minister John Key) for NOT knowing the lawful limitations of their statutory duties, and how to check the residential status of persons residing in New Zealand?

    errr…. how INTELLIGENT are those in charge of, and responsible for New Zealand’s ‘Intelligence Services’?

    WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY?

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com/

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  48. Gary2 (17 comments) says:

    So what do we have then?
    1. An investigation into a previously unknown foreigner is mentioned to John Key as part of an overall presentation.
    2. Months later, the Dotcom arrests happen – Key is briefed just before the raid.
    3. Much later still, Key is asked about when he first knew about Dotcom.
    4. It turns out that he had long forgotten about the initial presentation, but accepts it had happened, apologises and corrects his response.
    5. Shearer throws out an accusation that there was a mention by Key about Dotcom in a staffroom.
    6. Key does not deny that he made a comment because, as he already said about the matter, he didn’t recall it. How could he deny something happened when he didn’t remember every detail of the visit?
    7. Shearer is shown up as a liar, happy to make up stuff for his own gain. And happy to accuse public servants of partisan politics.
    8. Labour supporters say that there must be something to it all as Key did not vigourously deny the accusations. This is despite him saying all along that he didn’t remember what had happened so long ago.

    Question: What would they say if John Key suddenly denied that he had said something when he previously said he genuinely didn’t remember? The desperation of the left clutching at any possible straw is really quite embarassing. Bring on 2014!

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  49. Reid (16,513 comments) says:

    to the Labour supporters on here blatantly ignoring the ridiculousness of his statement just because they have to support the team

    Yeah but we’re ignoring the probable truth that Key probably did make a quip back in Feb about Dotcom. Does that make us a total, utter rabble as well?

    Not that I particularly care whether he did or not, the only thing it proves, if he did actually say it then, is that Key is almost as economical with the truth as Hulun always was. Not as bad as she was, but Key is hardly a paragon of virtue based on all he’s done in office and more importantly, what he hasn’t done. Pretending he is is disingenuous at best, outright lying at worst. One of the huge disappointments to me about politics not just here but everywhere, is the immense sychophancy practiced not necessarily by public supporters of one party or other, but by the caucuses. While understanding the need for public-facing unity, which is critical, behind closed doors I sincerely hope Key has been given a right bollocking by the entire caucus for his management of the Dotcom operation which has been a complete cluster-fuck on his part from start to finish. I hope that but I don’t expect it.

    The Nats, from when I used to be a member, are as sychophantic and toady as they come, especially toward Dear Leader (whomever they are at any given time), which is one of the reasons I didn’t bother keeping up my membership. In the process improvement world which I work in, you are trained to look for opportunities and defects wherever they arise, and failing to call bullshit when you see bullshit is not a virtue, it’s a crime. In politics, as in the commercial world, politicians and managers are not held to account for their stupid decisions as often as they should be, and the reason often is not because people don’t notice their stupidity, it’s because most of the politicians and managers are fragile, egotistical creatures who think they’re the most fantastic thing the world has ever seen and their fragile egos get offended when someone points out the Emperor has no clothes. Personally, while I see it happening all the time, I always hate it because you know what? Ones loyalty in the commercial world is not to one’s manager, it’s to the organisation which puts food on their table and if the organisation is performing sub-optimally, it is one’s duty to call it, and provide evidence, of course. You have to have that. But if you see it and you have evidence and you don’t call it because you’re afraid the manager might be offended, you’re abrogating your duty.

    Same applies in govt, especially in govt, since the politician’s loyalty is NOT to the Dear Leader, it’s to their electorate, and they owe it to us, to be particularly vigorous in calling it when they see it. But one of the reasons politics is so dysfunctional not just here but everywhere, is that very few politicians not only ever do this, they don’t even think they have to, because to them, their loyalty is totally completely and utterly venal and their entire focus and energy is expended on doing whatever it takes to keep their own selfish hides in favour with the senior leadership, so they get a promotion. Anyone here who thinks Liarbore does this and the Nats don’t, is dreaming.

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  50. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    We all love JK too Gary2.

    No numbered explanations are necessary! :)

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  51. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Good on you Reid for speaking it like it is.

    You probably got fired a bit eh? :)

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  52. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    …while her partner serves his time for breaching the Government Communications Security Bureau Act 2003.

    Unlikely: http://pundit.co.nz/content/is-it-illegal-to-talk-about-coffee-at-the-gcsb

    Whether Mold’s partner is involved in the leaking or not it would have only taken half a brain amongst them to have realised that the relationship between Shearer and Mold and between Mold and an ex GCSB employee would be exposed as a possible source of the leaks.

    Sure, they’d assume the PM’s office would tip off some useful idiots about the connection between Mold and the GCSB. So what? They’re all grown-ups, a bit of mud slung by the likes of Soper and Whaleoil is hardly likely to bother them.

    The end result:
    – Key is likely to stay as PM until 2014 (at least, beyond that will be a struggle regardless).
    – Beyond his cheer squad Shearer’s already shaky leadership took a severe jolt.
    – If nothing else Mold’s media strategy has taken a sever beating.
    – Mold’s partner is further exposed and is possibily subject to GCSB secrecy requirements.
    – Two GCBS employees are in shaky positions.

    Your capacity for wishful thinking is truly impressive.

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  53. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    That’s not wishful thinking, they are all at least as likely as scoring a mortal political blow against Key that Labourites so desperately want.

    And I don’t wish for Labour in tatters. I’d far prefer a sensible strengthening party at least showing some sign of being ready to lead Government in 2014. That’s what Shearer should be focussed on and working towards. Instead they dream of firing a magic bullet, bringing down the current government and forcing an early election, something that has been rare and is very unlikely.

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  54. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Whereas most of us here would rather see them crash in flames and if they survived that die the death of a thousand cuts.

    Have you ever considered you are just too nice to be in politics PG? :)

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  55. publicwatchdog (2,622 comments) says:

    Gosh ‘Reid’!

    We don’t actually agree on something – do we?

    EEEK!

    ;)

    ” Not as bad as she was, but Key is hardly a paragon of virtue based on all he’s done in office and more importantly, what he hasn’t done. Pretending he is is disingenuous at best, outright lying at worst.”

    Well – I actually think that shonky John Key is FAR worse.

    Remember John Key’s ‘TRANZRAIL eyes’ – when questioned about Tranzrail?

    Tranzrail http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeJSFVWKnsE

    Remember John Key’s ‘TRANZRAIL eyes’ – when questioned about Lord Ashcroft’s visit?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GwcCNdTYyQ

    What about John Key’s ‘TRANZRAIL eyes’ when questioned about talking to GCSB staff in their cafeteria?

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Secret-GCSB-recording-catches-Key-out—Labour/tabid/370/articleID/272405/Default.aspx

    Can NZ Prime Minister John Key be trusted?

    Nope.

    Not in my considered opinion as an ‘anti-corruption’ campaigner – who took a private prosecution against John Key over Tranzrail before the 2008 General Election – after a formal written complain to the Police and SFO resulted in no action being taken.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFTYZVQo-A8

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  56. Reid (16,513 comments) says:

    Surely – the tape MUST exist because they are looking for the mole that revealed its existence to Labour?’

    Penny, it’s quite obvious the source was Mold’s partner and it’s quite obvious he told Mold that he was at the presentation at which Key said what he alleged and it’s quite obvious that he also said someone else at the presentation apart from him, taped it. It’s obvious because if he’d told Mold HE was the one who taped it then Mold would of course have asked for the tape, which he didn’t have.

    This means of course someone is ALLEGED to have made an illegal taping because the GCSB have already said they cancelled the planned official taping. GCSB like MFAT and SIS, does not allow anyone to walk around with devices capable of taping, this is why those agencies require all visitors and employees to drop them off at reception, no exceptions. So by definition, the ALLEGATION is that someone – an employee no less – smuggled in a taping device. Do you have any idea what sort of seriousness this rates in terms of a security breach in a place like GCSB?

    GCSB Penny is the Bletchley Park for NZ. They are as important in terms of our security as Bletchley Park was for the UK in WWII. SIGINT is the most vital component of our security apparatus and its security must remain inviolable. For an employee to have smuggled in a recording device, is a Defcon Five alert for GCSB’s security since it means Penny not that they’re particularly concerned about someone taping a presso given by the PM but it represents a security hole that must be plugged lest someone – the same person or someone else – use the same hole to record really sensitive stuff. Through the UKUSA agreement, NZ is responsible for signals traffic in the Western Pacific. Click that link and you’ll see this includes SE Asia: i.e. the ASEAN countries. Can you imagine the political dynamite that’s in the NZ GCSB given it covers that particular region? What pray tell would happen to our economy let alone our national security, if someone got hold of something really juicy concerning that region? And that’s not even considering all the intel sharing through the Five Eyes arrangement which, one imagines, consists of things such as, the US diplomatic and military strategies for countering Sino South Pacific incursion, to mention only one regional concern, let alone the NATO intel, the Australian intel, on and on and on.

    So this Penny, is why they’re investigating the ALLEGATION. Not because there’s definitely something in it, who knows? But because if they didn’t, they’d be drop-jawed gaping idiots wouldn’t they, given what’s at stake, IF it’s true and someone DID smuggle something in.

    Honestly Penny in your line as a public watchdog I would have assumed this line of logic would be mere bread and butter to you. A hint for the future. Memorise the following and cogitate on it until you’ve wrapped your head around every little nuance:

    There is nothing so vigorously defended as a vested interest disguised as an intellectual conviction.

    What you seem to do all the time in my observation Penny, is the same as what McCarthy did in the 50’s and the same as what George Bush has alleged in his bogus ‘war on terror.’ That is: reds under the bed to quote the memorable bollocks line from the end of the McCarthy era. Just like Joe and George Penny, just like them, you also see “reds under the bed” except your “reds” aren’t commies or terrorists, they’re capitalists or conservative politicians. But just like they have, you also initiate hysterical nonsense allegations based on the flimsiest allegations which don’t even count as real “evidence” but like Joe and George, because you have a vested interest in believing it’s so, you ignore the fact there is little to no evidence and leap straight to your pre-conceived opinion that, once again, it’s yet another instance of the fantasy you have conceived of in your own mind. Like I said Penny, read that quote, memorise it, and think about it. Look at your own vested interests (which includes your emotions) and consider whether or not you really have a vested interest in obtaining a particular perspective on a particular issue which you’re entertaining. Because once you identify your vested interests, your intellect is then free to pursue what it does best, which is cogitate, free from any bound up emotions that, unless you’re aware of them, will force your intellect to reach what in reality, was always going to be a pre-determined outcome, whether or not it makes intellectual sense. Cops sometimes do it as well, when they reach an emotional judgement (that they think is intellectual but it’s not), that person X is guilty, and then they go ahead and make the evidence fit their emotional judgement. But they don’t recognise it as an emotional judgement see, they think it’s an objective, intellectual outcome of their investigations. That’s why the quote says, it’s disguised as an intellectual conviction.

    So Penny, if you really do wish to be like Joe and George and cops who subconsciously manufacture evidence to convict an innocent person, then be my guest, but I would have thought that using the same thought processes as those sorts of people wouldn’t sit well with someone like you but hey, what do I know?

    You probably got fired a bit eh?

    No I generally see it coming so I resign in a huff of righteous indignation Johnboy :)

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  57. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    :)

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  58. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    JB – they’re going to get back in sometime, and the way National are stuffing things up it will be sooner rather than later.

    So I’d prefer Labour were prepared and ready for the job – and they stronger they are the less chance of being pushed by Greens and bribed by Winston, and the less chance of Hone locking himself in his car and refusing to vote.

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  59. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    When they get back in PG these are the folks your folks will be negotiating with. Much as we love you we are worried! :)

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  60. Reid (16,513 comments) says:

    me: …while her partner serves his time for breaching the Government Communications Security Bureau Act 2003.

    Milt: Unlikely: http://pundit.co.nz/content/is-it-illegal-to-talk-about-coffee-at-the-gcsb

    Possible Milt. It’s a shame Key didn’t install his very own tame Police Commissioner when he first took office, like Hulun did, isn’t it. For then a prosecution would have been a slam-dunk, as it was in Shane Ardern’s case, wouldn’t it.

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  61. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @Reid 4:40 pm

    …it’s quite obvious the source was Mold’s partner and it’s quite obvious he told Mold that he was at the presentation at which Key said what he alleged and it’s quite obvious that he also said someone else at the presentation apart from him, taped it.

    Not so simple, Reid. Mold’s partner appears to have been not actually working at the GSCB on the date in question – he was seconded elsewhere it seems.

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  62. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Damian seems an appropriate name for the chap toadie? :)

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  63. publicwatchdog (2,622 comments) says:

    “You don’t make accusations of this nature based on rumour.”

    errr…… rather more significant was the unlawful surveillance and raid on a NZ resident – don’t you think?

    Where is the accountability, and what are going to be the consequences for staff at the highest levels of the GCSB and the Minister responsible for the GCSB – Prime Minister John Key – for not ensuring that those entrusted with the security of New Zealand knew, and operated lawfully within the boundaries of their statutory duties?

    Is the ‘Rule of Law’ going to apply to them?

    Is NZ Prime Minister John Key, going to face charges of ‘Contempt of the House’ – for allegedly misleading the House over his knowledge of the Kim Dotcom matter?

    If not – why not?

    Are a number of MPs from a range of political parties going to raise the matter of alleged ‘Contempt of the House’ with the Speaker of the House – or will Prime Minister John Key be allowed to get away with an apology for amnesia, of the dodgy John Banks variety?

    Do you really think the voting public is going to wear this?

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  64. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Folks would read your stuff more if it was shorter Penny.

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  65. Reid (16,513 comments) says:

    Not so simple, Reid. Mold’s partner appears to have been not actually working at the GSCB on the date in question – he was seconded elsewhere it seems.

    He was probably remote viewing toad.

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  66. publicwatchdog (2,622 comments) says:

    I think there are probably quite a few folk who read my stuff ‘Johnboy’ – including you?

    ;)

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  67. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Nice to see you have taken my advice.

    I have always had a sneaking regard for your anti-establishment stance Penny.

    I would of course regard you more favourably if you dispatched my barbed wire shortly. :)

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  68. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    toad said

    Not so simple, Reid. Mold’s partner appears to have been not actually working at the GSCB on the date in question – he was seconded elsewhere it seems.

    That’s irrelevant toad; S11(1) of the GCSB Act 2003 covers both current and former GCSB employees; Dr XXXXXX is not off the hook yet.

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  69. big bruv (13,931 comments) says:

    Fancy that. Toad excusing something as disgusting as this because it suits his corrupt political cause.

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  70. Rick Rowling (813 comments) says:

    This thread sums up the fallout from this story.

    Those predisposed to think that John Key is a liar have had their beliefs reinforced.

    Those predisposed to think that David Shearer is a bumbling idiot have had their beliefs reinforced.

    Those predisposed to think that we have a non-political public service as a mainstay of our democracy have had their beliefs shaken.

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  71. Reid (16,513 comments) says:

    In toad’s defence he made that point in the context of my saying that that Mold’s partner was at the briefing, which I did say which was my assumption based on one of the articles I have read. So toad was making a fair point.

    However, if Mold’s partner wasn’t at the briefing, that doesn’t obviate my argument but does raise the question as to how Mold’s partner got to know about the comment Key allegedly made, so it was a fair point from toad.

    But the probable answer is of course someone told him, as these things happen, with absent colleagues, getting up to speed on something that happened while they were away.

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  72. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @ Keeping Stock 5:54 pm

    Read Andrew Geddis’ legal analysis:

    To which I say … nonsense. If an employee of the GCSB telling people “John Key gave a lunchtime talk to us at work and in the course of it mentioned Kim Dotcom’s name” is a breach of this section, then telling people “at work today Bob wore a blue tie” also would be, as would telling people “we don’t have plunger coffee at work, we have instant.”

    Because clearly the intent of this section isn’t to prevent employees (current or former) from saying anything at all about their employment. Rather, it’s intended to prevent such persons from talking about the secret stuff that they may come to learn through working at the Bureau, or that may prejudice the Bureau’s ability to conduct its surveillance activities. Neither of which the disclosure that (1) the PM gave a talk to the staff at lunchtime, nor (2) in that talk he (allegedly) mentioned Kim Dotcom’s name does. So while passing on information about what the Prime Minister (allegedly) said during lunch with them at the cafe may raise employment issues under the State Sector Act, it just isn’t a criminal matter.

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  73. niggly (830 comments) says:

    Actually I think Andrew Geddis is the one talking nonsense. Let’s re-read Section 11 of the GSCB Act (which Mr Geddis also quotes on his site).

    11 Prohibition on unauthorised disclosure of information

    (1) A person who is or was an employee of the Bureau may not disclose or use any information gained by or conveyed to the person through the person’s connection with the Bureau except in the strict course of the person’s official duties or as authorised by the Minister.

    Andrew Geddis plays it down in his examples that Toad quotes, but this isn’t about a chit chat over who came over to the cafeteria or who had a blue tie on. It’s about an employee or former employee (or contractor) who talked to a political press secretary divulging “content” of a so-called “briefing”….

    Sure, like Mr Geddis “I may be wrong” but we shall see as it will be an interesting next few days for the leaker….

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  74. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    Classic Artwork.

    http://screencast.com/t/Dp6phSlck

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2012/10/saturday-general-debate-11/

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  75. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    I know if I worked for GCSB and was aware the PM was telling porkies, I would inform the PM of my concerns and expect him to set the record straight. If he declined, I would go public.

    We still have no explanation from John Key as to why he apparently didn’t raise the issue of Dotcom’s residency status during the various meetings he has had this year with Ian Fletcher, including during the February 29 meeting at GCSB. John Key knew as early as January 24 (and possibly earlier) that Dotcom had permanent residency. Therefore, he should have been well aware that GSCB was not permitted to spy on Dotcom.

    Is Key the most incompetent Prime Minister in living memory, or the biggest liar since Lance Armstrong?

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  76. niggly (830 comments) says:

    I know if I worked for GCSB and was aware the PM was telling porkies, I would inform the PM of my concerns and expect him to set the record straight. If he declined, I would go public.

    What if the PM wasn’t in fact telling porkies.

    We still have no explanation from John Key as to why he apparently didn’t raise the issue of Dotcom’s residency status during the various meetings he has had this year with Ian Fletcher, including during the February 29 meeting at GCSB. John Key knew as early as January 24 (and possibly earlier) that Dotcom had permanent residency. Therefore, he should have been well aware that GSCB was not permitted to spy on Dotcom.

    What if the GCSB weren’t actually “spying” but instead were simply providing technical support eg links (even Nicky Hager says the GSCB aren’t cloak and dagger type “spies” – they are technicians and analysts apparently).

    Is Key the most incompetent Prime Minister in living memory, or the biggest liar since Lance Armstrong?

    Neither.

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  77. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    > What if the PM wasn’t in fact telling porkies.

    Yes, well, I guess he could simply be incompetent. But whoever has leaked to Labour may well believe that the PM has lied. And who could blame them?

    http://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2012/10/03/dear-leader-gcsb-and-kiwis-in-wonderland-part-rua/

    > What if the GCSB weren’t actually “spying”

    Try reading the Neazor report. Dotcom had permanent residency from November 2010. Neazor concluded that GCSB illegally spied on him.

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  78. Nostalgia-NZ (5,221 comments) says:

    I must be missing something but as Shearer first of all said there was a tape and later said there wasn’t – what is the big deal?

    Also what is the convincing evidence that Fran Mold’s partner leaked anything. It’s hard to imagine the trail would be so apparently obvious to be missed by the ‘leaker.’

    Why does there continue to be the belief that the GCSB are incompetent, because Key said so?

    Can there be no expectation that GCSB staff will not protect themselves as paid Government employees?

    Does all of this result in an expectation that Key will not be correcting himself in Parliament on tuesday?

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  79. Reid (16,513 comments) says:

    Goodness ross, the streak of lefty self-righteousness-I’m-so-intellligent-and-so-vewy-vewy-well-meaning-that-it-goes-without-saying-I-must-be-wight-and-if-anyone-doesn’t-agwee-why-they-must-simply-be-just-the-gweatest-biggest-meanies-in-the-whole-wide-world flows through you like the winds currently sweeping our great nation.

    Why don’t you just shut the fuck up you little dick and wait and see what develops.

    P.S. I bet you really do have a little dick as well. We conservatives snigger about that all the time. You poor things. I feel sorry for your women, but I guess they never say anything to you, do they. Of course not, that would be all hurtful and cwuel wouldn’t it.

    Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

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  80. Reid (16,513 comments) says:

    Update.

    Er. Ross? Do you find this joke funny just posted on GD?

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/10/general_debate_13_october_2012.html#comment-1034145

    If not, why not?

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  81. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Reid

    You may have discovered a symptom of ‘Key Derangement Syndrome’.

    The socialists probably look at their teeny weeny cocks every morning & go on to take their self loathing out on JK. :)

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  82. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    “I go out there and speak and entertain thousands and thousands of people every week.”~ John Key

    Sounds like he’s comparing himself to Lady Gaga.

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  83. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Or sheep or French Women! :)

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  84. Tauhei Notts (1,724 comments) says:

    On this matter readers might want to look at David Garrett’s comment at 7.21 p.m. on “Shearer Makes It Up” on 12th October.
    David Garrett listened, as I did, to Rodney Hide’s interview with Schearer on Radio Live yesterday.
    I listened with some embarrassment; here was a bloke that I thought had some decency absolutely destroying himself, live on radio. It was depressing. Now if Public Watchdog, Russel Norman, John Minto or any other lunatic were to do that I would be celebrating. But no, it was a bloke for whom I had been gathering some degree of respect for.
    It was a very sad interview. Apparently Rodney Hide expressed some sadness about it too. He had heard a most likeable bloke totally rubbish his own political future in the space of a few minutes.

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  85. Nostalgia-NZ (5,221 comments) says:

    Need a hanky Tauhei Notts?

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  86. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    Tinker,tailor,soldier at Imperator:

    Shearer was bold,
    and he led from the front,
    but no one would follow
    not Parker, nor Cun,
    liffe, nor Robertson
    nor Mallard, nor King.
    he was out on his own,
    on a prayer and a wing.
    His order was wrong,
    his plan was all stuffed,
    and even his best,
    lines were all muffed.
    There’s a mole amongst spies,
    and it’s mole’d to our camp,
    there’s a need for some light,
    and he offered his lamp.
    For all that it shone,
    on the ferrets and spies,
    most of it shone,
    right back in his eyes.
    He looked like a possum
    caught in the gleam
    and nowhere behind him
    was his much trusted team.
    So where are the tapes,
    recordings, and more?
    that promised so much
    that opened the door
    that showed the Prime Mincer
    as a liar, and worse
    up to his eyeballs
    in the old Dotcom curse
    but alas for poor Shearer
    as he stumbles, then falls,
    he’s left high and dry
    by the ones with no balls.

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  87. RF (1,407 comments) says:

    I heard the interview with Shearer and Hide. It was clear that Shearers political career has taken a terminal spiral dive. Shearer will never recover from his stupid mistakes and I must admit I do not feel the same satisfaction I had when Goff was booted out as he was just a idiot. Shearer is different as he is just a square peg in a round hole.

    Shearer has been out of his depth and should never have been given the leadership. I suspect he is being set up to fail as there is no support from his peers.

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  88. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Is this really the work of Fran Mold? Goff tried this same approach last year and I don’t recall she was yet installed as chief media messenger.

    No, this has all the smell of “one of the Trevs has taken off his guuuumboots…”

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  89. kiwi in america (2,454 comments) says:

    Watching this Dotcom saga play out from afar I’m struck by a few things:
    * The FBI are stretched for resources and are unlikely to come all the way to NZ and urge their allies’ police force to do a costly high profile raid unless the charges were serious – the Megaupload stuff is the tip of a very messy and complex iceberg IMO – whilst there’s an element of the US entertainment industry wanting to make a strong showing of deterrence, file sharing anxieties by themselves don’t justify sending a team of agents to uplift Dotcom in the way they did
    * That said someone in the NZ Police must not really have any clue about latent anti US sentiment that lurks beneath the surface in NZ society. Dotcom has got such traction in the NZ media because it’s a rerun of the ANZUS stuff in the mid 80’s – little South Pacific country stands up to bully boy Americans – Kim Dotcom has become a Ned Kelly style lovable rogue figure courtesy of the police overplaying their hand. Had a more discrete raid been undertaken, it’s likely this case would’ve stayed under the radar.
    * The NZ Police added to the incompetence by telling the GCSB that Dotcom was a foreigner and GCSB were fools to not have an internal protocol allowing them to check wire tap warrants against the Immigration Service’s internal records on residency applications. Had they done so they would’ve been forced to either hand the file to the SIS or force the police to get a more robust and defendable warrant.
    * Successive Prime Ministers of all stripes have treated their SIS and GCSB responsibilities with minimal oversight due mainly to the routine nature of NZ’s spying activities as befitting a small country far away from the world’s political hotspots – the lack of select committee oversight is an anomaly compared to other Westminster style jurisdictions so its means that a cock up inside one of these agencies is going to land straight on a PM’s desk. I don’t think Key was any more asleep at the wheel than any other PM and the fact that traditionally PMs stay right out of operational matters is entirely appropriate.
    * Bill English breached the ‘no surprises’ policy and so perhaps Key’s Chief of Staff needs to be a bit more hands on in the Heather Simpson mode to alert the PM earlier to potential political minefields. Banks’ dalliances with the truth over his pre Parliamentary association with Dotcom have served as a very messy added complication.
    * The combination of all these mistakes that by themselves are not serious but in accumulation have become a scandal.
    * Shearer’s actions reflect his lack of upper level political experience – sensing that Key was hunkering down (counting on the fact that middle NZ Joe six pack in voter land is less fussed with the Dotcom saga not seeing it as a game changing political event), Labour were desperate to keep the issue alive and Shearer was equally desperate to appear relevant given the Greens relatively favourable publicity over the Quantitative Easing ‘bring the dollar down’ campaign. Inexperience and desperation came to equal clutching at straws and also highlights the uselessness of Shearer’s inner circle of advisors – any old hand would know you only spring traps like that if you have the smoking gun waiting up your sleeve to deploy once your prey denies anything.

    Shearer assumed because Key was on the ropes to some extent over the Dotcom saga that the usually left tilting media would swallow Mold’s partners’ pillow talk as gospel truth and instead he’s ceded the political playing field back to Key when this looked like one of the few issues that were really getting under Key’s skin. His days as Leader were numbered until February 2013 barring some stunning turnaround performance – now they are numbered in weeks!

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  90. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    ross69 said

    “I go out there and speak and entertain thousands and thousands of people every week.”~ John Key

    Sounds like he’s comparing himself to Lady Gaga.

    You’ve said some pretty inane things here Ross, but that one is right up there in terms of its inanity

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  91. hannity (152 comments) says:

    “I go out there and speak and entertain thousands and thousands of people every week.”~ John Key

    What a deluded wanker.

    Truely cringeworthy.

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  92. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    Inexperience and desperation came to equal clutching at straws and also highlights the uselessness of Shearer’s inner circle of advisors – any old hand would know you only spring traps like that if you have the smoking gun waiting up your sleeve to deploy once your prey denies anything.

    The “prey’s” denied something? Is that since he was forced to backtrack on his denial once the possibility of a recording was raised? As far as I’ve seen, since then his only comments have been along the lines of “I don’t remember and anyway you can’t prove I did it,” which any parent can tell you is basically an admission of guilt.

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  93. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    That’s not wishful thinking, they are all at least as likely as scoring a mortal political blow against Key that Labourites so desperately want.

    Well yes, they would be very silly indeed if they imagined something like this might be a “mortal political blow.” But the idea they are that silly is, again, wishful thinking on your part.

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  94. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    Psycho, are you aware of a blog called The Standard? Have a look through Shearer, Key, credibility. Or many other posts there. Every second comment oozes desperation and hope that this might be the straw that breaks the Government’s back. One of the last comments last night:

    You are going down key and I’m enjoying every faltering step and muddied knee as your beloved public image sinks like a rock.

    That’s what The Standard lives for, pursuing their Lotto dream of destroying the opposition. When they’re not turning on their own – see Shearer Says. That ‘newsletter’ happens to deserve a bollocking for it’s nauseous naivity.

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  95. hannity (152 comments) says:

    PG
    You are very generous, with your advice to other political parties.

    Perhaps you could specialise in, increasing minor parties poll rating to within the sight of the margin of error.

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  96. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    hannity, unlike you I don’t specialise in stupid, irrelevant hissing. I’m very open about my motives and make comments on many topics – as I have done for years. Having a bit of an association with one party is only a small part of what I do. If you were as aware of what I do as you try to make out you would know that.

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  97. hannity (152 comments) says:

    Oh I know what you do PG.

    Endlessly pontificate, from a self constructed pedestal.

    Hence my comment.

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  98. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    hannity: Endlessly pontificate, from a self constructed pedestal.

    Haha, that’s a redbaiterism. Otherwise known as commenting on the mirror.

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  99. Bogusnews (474 comments) says:

    Excellent summation at 440 Reid, best I’ve seen.

    Two points arise here in my view:

    First, damage has been done. I think it very unlikely the papers will print this egregious error as a front pager the way they have been printing the saucy Labour accusations. Fran wrote a good piece, but unfortunately nowhere near as many will read it as when it’s emblazoned repeatedly as a lead story. The end result will be that the average person will just remember something sleazy went on.

    Second, I think it’s ironic. If I was religious would start thinking about Karma as I can’t help but compare this to the disgraceful way Dr Brash was treated with the leaked emails. I could certainly understand why the dreadful speaker of the day (Margaret Wilson) was not interested in any sort of inquiry and why Clark’s puppet, Howard Broad did no meaningful investigation, but the total lack of interest from Brash’s own colleagues surprised me. Perhaps our prime minister will belatedly understand how it feels when information is leaked and totally false conclusions drawn from it. Hagar single handedly stopped the Brash juggernaut after he took National from 22% to 45% and came within a whisker of the levers of power. Will this do the same?

    Funnily enough, I also wonder if the anti smacking bill will be a factor. If John Key had not voted for that appalling legislation, and then stubbornly kept it even when the vast majority of NZ’ers said they didn’t want it, he could have it up his sleeve as a weapon against Labour in the run up to the election. “Don’t vote for them if you want to keep control of your kids…” etc.

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