General Debate 11 November 2012

November 11th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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182 Responses to “General Debate 11 November 2012”

  1. jaba (2,095 comments) says:

    gee .. the Arsenal v Fulham game was a goodie this morning .. not sure why Sir A let Berba go

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  2. Colville (2,165 comments) says:

    The question I am waiting to answer is…what will the cray pots hold?

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  3. Steve (North Shore) (4,518 comments) says:

    Time for Big Boys Toys. Fun and dreaming

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  4. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Remembrance day today – 94 years since the guns fell silent on the western front.
    For our tomorrows they gave their their todays – lest we forget.

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  5. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    mikey,

    +1 (and more)

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  6. Pete George (23,273 comments) says:

    Irishbill has added to the ‘Shearer must step down’ posters at The Standard. But even if Shearer saw the writing on numerous walls and stood down that would pose a number of problems. He can’t stand down now and render the Labour conference leaderless and pointless. But the conference is destined to be dominated by examination of his leadership.

    I’ve looked at more problems facing Labour. And look at who might be able to lead them out of their lethargy. None of the obvious contenders do it for me.

    I think Labour need to do somethingradical, and only one name comes to mind. Another Shearer spear, but difficult choice.

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  7. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Perhaps Peter Dunne AND John Tamihere could rejoin the Labour Party and provide that credible leadership so obviously lacking.

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  8. Tauhei Notts (1,642 comments) says:

    I have been reading the Washington Post.
    The resignation of top CIA man, David Petraeus has the hallmarks of that old cliche;
    “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.”

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  9. Fletch (6,126 comments) says:

    +1 Remembrance Day

    Just looked up Wiki as to why Poppy Day is a different date in New Zealand as opposed to other Commonwealth countries –

    New Zealand’s national day of remembrance is Anzac Day, 25 April.[18] “Poppy Day” usually occurs on the Friday before Anzac Day.[19] The reason for the oddity of New Zealand having their remembrance on Anzac Day happened in 1921. The paper Poppies for Armistice that year arrived by ship too late for 11 November 1921, so an RSA branch distributed them at the next commemoration date (25 April 1922, which happened to be Anzac Day) and that date stuck as the new Poppy Day in New Zealand.

    We remember them today as well..

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  10. Longknives (4,671 comments) says:

    The Herald is losing the plot.. Check out this headline-

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10846576

    Quote “He was a gentle, law abiding man”
    As he was on drug dealing charges clearly he fucking WASN’T!
    I also note that the Herald are clearly blaming the police for this guy dying, nothing to do with the fact he had a drug problem..

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  11. Fletch (6,126 comments) says:

    I have been reading the Washington Post.
    The resignation of top CIA man, David Petraeus has the hallmarks of that old cliche;
    “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.”

    Except it looks like it was timed perfectly by the Obama Administration. Left until after the election, but before the Benghazi investigation where Petraeus was due to testify, but now he isn’t. He was critical of Benghazi and wasn’t going to take the fall for it, and now this… Very coincidental isn’t it?

    Lt Col Ralph Peters says the timing of his resignation “smells

    Maybe Axelrod and his Chicago boys had this sitting in their back pocket for a while, ready to pull out.

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  12. Keeping Stock (10,166 comments) says:

    @ Longknives – read a bit deeper, and it’s a quest by Martyn Bradbury for relevance now that he no longer writes for Truth.

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  13. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Can someone explain to me why a man should resign from his position of the basis of who he is fucking? We are seeing this happen around the world more and more. The head of the IMF lost his position because of a blackmail attempt from a known fraudster and hooker. Various other high profile men have been destroyed, because of unproven accusations from women. It is a disgrace.

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  14. Fletch (6,126 comments) says:

    Can someone explain to me why a man should resign from his position of the basis of who he is fucking? We are seeing this happen around the world more and more.

    Yeh, well look at Clinton. He didn’t lose his job. It all depends upon who the person is. It’s all political.

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  15. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    One may wear a poppy today is one wishes to make a public gesture of remembrance. It is also fine to pause and remember whenever one passes a cenotaph, roll of honour or other memorial – there is no lack of them across our land.

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  16. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Clinton was a darling of the left. Different rules apply.

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  17. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    Kea
    We live in a liberal society the sexual lives of our leaders are often ignored. Georgina B springs to mind of an example of our tolerance
    The Usa has a conservative faction with a lot more influence than we do
    Think Red and Andre and fletch among others having a major say in a political party under a two-party state
    American politics is rife with religious and conservative views. It is very difficult for an atheist to seek election in america. Here it would get a passing mention and be irrelevant to most voters. Liberals ignore sex as a factor in electing officials Conservatives stick their noses into bedrooms and judge.

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  18. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    It will always be very dependent upon context. Some militaries feel their people should be bound to a more rigid code of honour; one that perhaps seems a bit quaint by the standards of the societies they serve. Voters tends to take notice of the private lives of politicians to the extent that behaviour may indicate ability to discharge the public office in question. This will always mean that similar behaviour by different politicians will be treated differently, depending largely on which way the political currents are running at the time.

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  19. Elaycee (4,331 comments) says:

    Another beat up article in the NZ Hoorald this morning titled Buyers Begging For Homes all about the ‘plight’ of homebuyers and a story about a Kate Sutton and her partner trying to purchase a home and the fact that they couldn’t buy a home in the suburb they preferred. Of course, the story included the mandatory leftard call for a Capital Gains Tax on housing.

    The name Kate Sutton rang a bell, so I had a quick look…. Yup: Kate Sutton is a former Labour Candidate and Vice President. So here she is… photo in the Hoorald… pushing her Party line. And either the repeater Kate Wynn has been sucked in or she is complicit in spouting this Labor mantra.

    Perhaps it’s time that beat up stories came with a disclosure statement… especially when political affiliations masquerade as a ‘story’. No surprises that it is the Hoorald. None at all.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10846558

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  20. RF (1,341 comments) says:

    Very important day in our history and for our future. I am wearing my poppy in memory of family who were killed in France.

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  21. Rhodie (28 comments) says:

    Hi David,

    Today is the 11th day of the 11th month – a day of very special celebration. Maybe a good candidate for a(nother) public holiday. 2 reasons:
    The Free World at large celbrates the day of Armistice
    The Ex-pat Rhodesian community worldwide celebrate the day of UDI.

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  22. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Why Conservatives focus on sex so much is a puzzle to me. If I liked “the cock” it would not change my views on the core issues of how our society should be managed by government.

    The right continually lose potential supporters by sticking their grubby noses into peoples bedrooms, with a promise to bring the entire government (into the bedroom) if elected.

    Being a mincing faggot does not make you “left”. Most of the poofs I know are self employed business people. They are potential allies, but do want their basic freedoms protected from zealots. The whole thing is such a non issue and important issues are side lined while there is public debate about who we are allowed to fuck.

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  23. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Rhodie
    Did you find it a bit tasteless to ‘celebrate’ the end of the Great War for Civilization and the long war against majority rule in Zimbabwe on the same day
    We don’t ‘celebrate’ these things here. We commemorate those who gave their lives for the freedoms we cherish here in New Zealand.

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  24. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Zim is doing so much better now they have got rid of all those evil white people, who were running the show. Just as South Africa is going from strength to strength. All those former colonies in Africa now have some of the highest standards of living in the world. Infant mortality, life expectancy and a raft of other social indicators are all looking great. We should celebrate that.

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  25. BlueGriffon (204 comments) says:

    Elaycee, I came here to point out the exact same thing. It was the mention of captial gains tax that had me suspicious. It’s amazing how the Herald keep finding these everyday people who just happen to be Labour activists.

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  26. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    This will teach him for trying to run a business and pay tax, the cheeky bugger !

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7934227/Icecream-hotspot-earns-booze-ban

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  27. Elaycee (4,331 comments) says:

    BlueGriffon:

    It’s amazing how the Herald keep finding these everyday people who just happen to be Labour activists.

    Yup – not only Labour activists but candidates and Vice Presidents as well! :D

    Only in the Hoorald….. it’s rather an apt throw away line.

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  28. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Kea (723) Says:
    November 11th, 2012 at 10:29 am

    Absolute madness! Haven’t these sticky beak pen pushing bureaucrats got anything better to do with their boring little lives!

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  29. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Absolute madness! Haven’t these sticky beak pen pushing bureaucrats got anything better to do with their boring little lives!

    Anyone should be allowed to sell booze, the same way as any other consumer item. Closing outlets will not reduce consumption.

    The other thing that needs to change, is allowing the police to influence alcohol policy. It is none of their business and is not what we employ them to do. If cops want to lobby government, then they can do so as private individuals. The police have no more relevance than drainlayers on matters of public policy. They are spending our money to restrict our freedoms. They need to piss off and go catch some crims. If they don’t like dealing with drunks, get another job.

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  30. mister nui (1,004 comments) says:

    We all know its time for a new right leaning party…. Maybe a new one could start-up and bring Tamihere and Jones into the fold…. It would bring a great deal of the Waitekere Men and conservative non-grievance industry maori away from Labour.

    Just saying.

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  31. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @Kea

    Anyone should be allowed to sell booze, the same way as any other consumer item. Closing outlets will not reduce consumption.

    Say, do you work at being stupid or does it just come naturally?

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  32. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Kea (725) Says:
    November 11th, 2012 at 10:18 am

    Zim is doing so much better now they have got rid of all those evil white people, who were running the show.

    So you are advocating colonial style slavery as a superior model of civilisation?

    Africa has got a long way to go to if they hope to emulate past European slaughter.

    Think about what we are commemorating today – yet another white man’s political fail.

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  33. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Luc, do you really think someone who wants to drink will not do so if the nearest liquor outlet closes? Do you really think that is how a heavy drinker thinks? Get a grip you half wit !

    But here is the bottom line: It is none of the governments fucking business, or busy body social engineers (like yourself) what, how, when or why people drink.

    Who the hell do you control freaks think you are?

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  34. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    So you are advocating colonial style slavery as a superior model of civilisation?

    Yes.

    Might pay to brush up on your history Luc. The African slave trade was flourishing before any white man set foot on the continent. The white man was just another customer, to add to the Arabs and other Black Africans.

    The idea that slavery may be “wrong” was popularised by the British, but NOT for human rights reasons. The idea that slavery is wrong has not caught on so well in Africa and slavery is still going on there today.

    Preach your white guilt message to someone as ignorant as yourself, but don’t even think about preaching to me.

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  35. Reid (16,085 comments) says:

    Say, do you work at being stupid or does it just come naturally?

    Luc, how come the only tool in the lefty toolbox is the one that deals with any problem by attempting to alter the environment, in this case by reducing availability by reducing outlets and increasing price?

    Haven’t lefties realised yet that this is the boil the ocean approach which will never work in a million years?

    Doesn’t it ever occur to you guys that the key to all of these problems, be it alcohol abuse, poverty, unemployment, crime or whatever, is to work on the attitudes of those whom are affected? And if not, why not. Because it’s obvious this is the case. After all, most people don’t abuse alcohol, most people aren’t in poverty, most people aren’t unemployed and most people don’t commit crime.

    So how come all those majorities are always completely ignored by the lefties, who concentrate their attentions exclusively on the people who do do those things, and then come up with a solution that, by changing the entire environment for everyone, those people will thereby be saved?

    Why doesn’t it ever occur to you that maybe if you studied the attitudes of people who say, don’t abuse alcohol, then once you’d understand the distinction between their attitudes and the attitudes of those who do say, abuse alcohol, you’d then and only then, be in a position to design policies that changed the behaviour of the abusers by directly targeting their destructive attitudes, without affecting the vast, vast majority who are quite capable of managing the environmental conditions.

    This way you wouldn’t be boiling the ocean, which never works because its impossible, there isn’t enough energy in the world and you’d be doing your “victims” a favour with effective intervention.

    How come none of this elementary analysis ever seems to occur to any of you?

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  36. mister nui (1,004 comments) says:

    Dead right Reid. Find me a business that studies failing businesses, no, they all study successful businesses.

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  37. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @Kea

    As regards alcohol outlets, sure, you remind me of the liquor barons telling us that advertising doesn’t increase consumption. So advertising is a public service, right? Yeah right.

    And as for slavery, most cultures have practiced slavery. Plato approved of it even while acknowledging the dilemma of considering his slaves as fellow human beings. That doesn’t make it right.

    Furthermore, the West commercialised slavery in a manner never seen before. Then, after keeping a whole ethnicity subjucated for our own enrichment, we literally abandoned them to the foibles of whomever was grasping enough – mainly aided and abetted and financed by…us.

    @reid

    We are doing a pretty good job of boiling the ocean, actually. Ask New Yorkers. And surely the original ‘intervention’ is putting people in that position to start with.

    To imagine that people live in a world completely of their own making is delusional – see my comment above about the purposes of advertising, for example. And pokies are carefully designed to hook people – but, for those who do get hooked, it’s all their fault, right?

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  38. RightNow (6,835 comments) says:

    Luc, you seem to be overcompensating for something.
    Try watching this: http://www.ted.com/talks/kathryn_schulz_on_being_wrong.html

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  39. Reid (16,085 comments) says:

    We are doing a pretty good job of boiling the ocean, actually. Ask New Yorkers.

    Details please Luc.

    To imagine that people live in a world completely of their own making is delusional

    Luc perhaps you haven’t realised but life is created by our thoughts.

    Watch your thoughts; They become words.

    Watch your words; They become actions.

    Watch your actions; They become habits.

    Watch your habits, They become character.

    Watch your character; It becomes your destiny.

    The fundamental flaw in lefty thinking appears to be that you are so desperate not to assign blame or responsibility to any of your perceived “victims” that you completely ignore this fundamental truth of human existence.

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  40. Redbaiter (7,974 comments) says:

    “be in a position to design policies that changed the behaviour of the abusers by directly targeting their destructive attitudes,”

    Design policies that change the behaviour..???

    This is completely the wrong approach. We need less government not more.

    I don’t want any government “designing policies to change behaviour” and least of all a government that might have a communist POS like Luc Hansen within its folds.

    Excessive drinking is a personal problem that is solved by parents and families and individuals, not by governments.

    Governments just need to look after births deaths and marriages, and register land ownership, and keep a few other such records, and insure the defence of the realm, and stay the hell out of the rest of it.

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  41. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Luc, Zimbabwe was one of the bread baskets of Africa. It is now just another basket case, under black rule. Same thing is happening in South Africa. It was once a place where Africans could have opportunity and personal safety. They flocked to SA in their thousands. Now it is the murder, rape, robbery capital of the world and is on a rapid decline.

    Colonists established modern cities, infrastructure and governance. They moved Africa from the stone age to the modern age overnight. Africa is a rich continent with vast natural resources. They have been given all they need to succeed.

    The victims, of your type of thinking, are the black Africans. They did far better under white minority rule. It may not fit with the sort of society you and I prefer, but it works there. I doubt you actually know about the level of brutality that occurs on the continent daily, in black ruled Africa. Its beyond belief.

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  42. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @Redbaiter, guess what? I completely agree that the smaller government is, the better it is for all of us. But, it’s smaller government consistent with…(make a list to suit your preferences, but just the fact that you have a list doesn’t make alternative lists less valid).

    @ RightNow, recognising wrong is not overcompensating. Neither is is misplaced guilt. It’s stupid to feel guilty about the actions of one’s forbears, but that doesn’t mean perpetuating the wrong, which is what most of you guys, like John Ansell, want.

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  43. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    The trouble with you Luc, is you put your ideology ahead of people.

    You are unconcerned with outcomes, as long as the intention/idea is good. This is a typical trait of hard core lefties. It is how people like Mao justified tens of millions dying. It is the mentality behind every great wrong and human rights abuse.

    Results matter to people Luc, not your ideology.

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  44. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @Kea

    What you are saying is that, for the colonised, the benefits of colonisation outweighs the costs, which more often than not included genocide. The answer to that is to look at how societies that were not colonised developed during the same timeframe – and to imagine that indigenous peoples we brutally exploited over centuries would not be better off than they are now is simply racism. And to imagine that we would have developed at the same rate without that exploitation is also delusional.

    I read something yesterday, I’m trying to remember where, but it was along the lines of how abused people are most likely to turn into abusers themselves. This is the degree of harm we, we civilised folk, inflicted.

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  45. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @

    Kea (729) Says:
    November 11th, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Yes, I have much sympathy for that point. However, like I said above, that doesn’t mean perpetuating injustice. Sadly, what is taken for well intentioned intervention aka IMF, World Bank, Paris Club is actually designed to entrench the interests of the West.

    As to exactly what we should be doing, ask the people we did over.

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  46. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Luc, do you know about the millions killed by black Africans in recent years? Are you aware the Tribal affiliations result in far more bloodshed than racial ones, in Africa ?

    Please point me to some “societies that were not colonised” and are doing well in Africa?

    Oh and here is another short history lesson……. ALL major races/cultures have been colonised, invaded, and taken over, often repeatedly. No one more so than the indigenous Britons. In the long run it is beneficial and has been the biggest driving force in spreading civilisation and lifting the standard of living around the world.

    Why are you only concerned about the colonising of darker skinned people? Whats “behind” that ?

    [DPF: yes there was lots of colonisation in the past. But we live in different times today. Do you believe people of a certain skin colour shouldn't get to vote?]

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  47. Yoza (1,664 comments) says:

    Kea: “The victims, of your type of thinking, are the black Africans. They did far better under white minority rule. It may not fit with the sort of society you and I prefer, but it works there.”

    You appear to be saying that Africans, given the choice, would vote for white minority rule or should have white minority rule imposed on them ‘for their own good’. I’ve said it before, Kea, and I don’t mind repeating it here; You are out of your freakin mind!

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  48. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    As to exactly what we should be doing, ask the people we did over.

    I suggest you ask the Chinese. Western liberals go to Africa and give aid. The Chinese do business deals. They are not tainted by Western ideology and are providing more jobs and progress there than all the do gooders from the West. And yes, I know its not all rosy and good. I am not a defender of the PRC, but give credit where it is due.

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  49. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Yes Yoza that is what I “appear to be saying” because that is what I said.

    Results matter to real people.

    You are a racist. You assume your Eurocentric view of the world is the gold standard by which the world should be judged. You want to help the Africans, to become more like white people. . You are repulsed by the reality of Africa. Your type has caused the needless deaths and suffering of millions on that continent.

    Get of your high horse, your full of shit and have blood on your hands.

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  50. Yoza (1,664 comments) says:

    “All major races/cultures have been colonised, invaded, and taken over, often repeatedly.”

    Except for Japan (excluding the limited occupation it endured following WWII). Considering Japan was the only ‘new world’ country capable of resisting European occupation, and, how advanced Japan is compared to all the other areas of the globe that ‘benefited’ from European colonisation/occupation; it does not say a lot for your point that the imperial ambitions of the European were a benevolent influence on their victims.

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  51. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @

    Kea (731) Says:
    November 11th, 2012 at 12:23 pm

    Again, there is a lot to agree with in that comment. But again, I ask you to consider that the existence of prior realities does not provide justification for continuation of said injustices.

    The Western project of colonisation and slavery and genocide was on a scale never seen before in the period of time, geographical extent and the sheer intensiveness of exploitation.

    And while it’s nice to be (almost) on the same page as DPF for a change, I disagree entirely that colonisation is a thing of the past. Ask Maori if that’s true. Ask Brazilians. Ask Central Americans. Ask Puerto Ricans. Oh, let’s not forget those we almost completely wiped out, like Native Americans and Australian Aboriginals.

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  52. Redbaiter (7,974 comments) says:

    [DPF: yes there was lots of colonisation in the past. But we live in different times today. Do you believe people of a certain skin colour shouldn't get to vote?]

    Why are there age limits on voting in New Zealand?

    Do you think that if you just threw democracy upon a society of troglodytes, they would understand its value?

    (and it wouldn’t matter what colour their skin was FFS..!!)

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  53. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    You want to help the Africans, to become more like white people. .

    No, that’s what you are saying. Read your own comments above.

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  54. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    No Yoza. Japan was actually a rather backward place until it came into contact with other cultures. Originally they came from China anyway, as did Maoris.

    Why did you particularly mention “European colonisation” ?

    In your racist Eurocentric mind you forgot about the Arabs, Mongols, Indians and a whole raft of others ? If you knew any real history, you would know the Europeans were a bunch of illiterate drunken barbarians when those cultures were developing science and higher thought, as well as “colonising” on an epic scale. The “white man” was a late starter.

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  55. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Oh, for DPF, can you run that ‘colonisation is in the past’ thing by Palestinians?

    [DPF: They are not a colony. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_list_of_Non-Self-Governing_Territories. ]

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  56. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Kea, why are you so intent on deflection?

    Using your logic we would legalise murder and genocide because, well it’s all been done before.

    Why don’t you try justifying colonisation from first principles and see how that works?

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  57. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    [DPF: yes there was lots of colonisation in the past. But we live in different times today. Do you believe people of a certain skin colour shouldn't get to vote?]

    In many parts of Africa they do not “live in different times today”. For millions of folk things have not changed much at all.

    In an ideal world they would get to vote. So would the Chinese, North Koreans etc. I do not hear the lefty shills objecting about that so much.

    Once again your blinded by how you would “like” things to be, not how they are. Approached from an ideological point of view, I would find considerable common ground with Luc.

    You want an appropriate place to direct your concerns about human rights and democracy? Try North Korea. The world will be in shame when that story comes out.

    [DPF: I agree North Korea is horrific, and it is a shame what their citizens have to endure.

    But what has that got to do with your apparent belief that black people should not have the vote?

    Are you saying because some people who should get to vote, do not, this means it is okay to deny the vote to other groups of people?]

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  58. Redbaiter (7,974 comments) says:

    Democracy Mr Farrar, evolved through culture.

    The form of democracy that made the British a world leader was developed over centuries and it works when it is actioned in conjunction with an educated, civilized and sober society.

    The two concepts need each other. Democracy needs culture and culture needs democracy.

    Without one the other cannot stand.

    It is not only Africa that suffers from the problem of having cultures that do not complement democracy, although it is more apparent there than most places.

    Plenty of western democracies are under threat of failure at the moment as the cultures that have supported them thus far continue to disintegrate.

    Read Alexis De Tocqueville.

    [DPF: I agree culture is very important. But culture is different to race.]

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  59. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Lets clear up my point about “colonisation”.

    Why are you pretenders, with your fake outrage, only concerned about colonisation by white people?

    They were a bunch of hand wringing peace freaks compared to the Mongols, as just one example. What about the Turks colonising all over Europe? Where are the crocodile tears about that?

    Do you smug pricks really think your credible or have the moral high ground?

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  60. iMP (2,331 comments) says:

    Peta has gone to the dogs. Gimme a break! http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2012/11/11/peta-a-bunch-of-turkeys/

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  61. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Kea

    There you go again…deflect, deflect…and if I’m a ‘lefty shill’ I’m one who objects to any and all oppression, including, for example, our oppression of the poorest in our society.

    You started this by essentially praising the colonisation project that enriched the West at the expense of the Rest. Please justify that concept.

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  62. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Most of the view here, about human rights, are Western Liberal Views. They are not the views held by most of the world. In fact, they have only recently been popularised in our own societies.

    Chinese, Indians, Africans etc do not view those issues in the same way.

    Some of you are trying to put on a big show of how non-racist you are. You have failed miserably, because you can not see outside of your own white European liberal world. You might find my views confronting, but they are demonstrably closer to the views held by the Africans themselves. They will tell you they want equality…….. but ………. for THEMSELVES, not for other tribal groups or their enemies. Ignorant inward looking white do gooders don’t get that simple fact, though it is demonstrated all over Africa.

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  63. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Luc, how did Africa “enrich” Europeans?

    Now I must warn you not to be a wanker and tell me its diamonds, gold or anything else the Africans were not using. Nor should you play the slavery card. A few slaves going to whitey (rather than the domestic market or Arabs) is not the enriching.

    They got entire modern cities, infrastructure, education, a functional government and had it all handed to them on a plate. How are those places doing now?

    Still no mention of the elephant in the room , I see……………… The Arabs were colonising the place long long before Europeans. And yes smart arse, that included slavery. Yet none of you have even mentioned it. And they are still there TODAY. They have not handed back their “colonies”

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  64. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    I asked this question a while ago here at Kiwiblog to our older commentators who were born in the 1930s, 1940s or 1950s like Pete George, Luc Hansen, et al about a Tongan song (Happy happy tonga) that I first heard about it 3 years ago. I thought that the original song or tune was one from the soundtrack of a classical James Bond movie (dr. no – i think), but someone here pointed out to me that the tune is similar but they’re different songs.

    Last night I went to a Tongan club in South Auckland and the band in that club was playing that song (not the original band that recorded the song in the link above) and I talked to a member of the band and asked him about the song. He told me that the song was originally recorded in the early 1950s by Louis Armstrong named:

    Skokiaan

    He said that there are a few versions of the song in different languages that have been recorded over the years and the happy happy tonga is the tongan version of the skokiaan written by his brother for the group in that link above.

    I like this chinese version of skokiaan. Its funky.

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  65. OneTrack (2,782 comments) says:

    Reid – “The fundamental flaw in lefty thinking appears to be that you are so desperate not to assign blame or responsibility to any of your perceived “victims” that you completely ignore this fundamental truth of human existence.”

    - But the lefties always do immediately assign blame. It is always the old white guys fault or americas fault. The resolution to the perceived problem is also always the same – tax whatever it is back to the stone age.

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  66. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    The FBI investigation that led to the discovery of CIA Director David Petraeus’ extramarital affair and his resignation Friday started when the agency began monitoring Petraeus’ email

    The title of the book Broadwell wrote is “All In: The Education of General David Petraeus”.

    The flesh is weak, after all.

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  67. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    [DPF: I agree North Korea is horrific, and it is a shame what their citizens have to endure.

    But what has that got to do with your apparent belief that black people should not have the vote?

    Are you saying because some people who should get to vote, do not, this means it is okay to deny the vote to other groups of people?]

    It has nothing to do with them being “black” and everything to do with the realities of their situation.

    I believe in democracy, very strongly in fact. I want to see all Africans prosperous, safe and free from tyranny. I want them to have a vote.

    But what “I want” is totally irrelevant.

    Zimbabwe was once one of the success stories of Africa. It was a bread basket of the continent with a strong economy, administered largely by Europeans. Cheered on by white liberals, the white administration handed power over to the blacks. The people are now under a terrible brutal regime. The country is broke. People are starving. They are not safe.

    Now ask yourself…… if it were your kids going hungry, if you and your family were at constant risk of robbery, violence, rape. If you had no home and no future…… would your greatest concern be a chance to vote?

    Zimbabwe is a real life example of how Western ideology has destroyed the lives of millions of blacks. They don’t give a shit about your politics. They want food and safety. They want their kids to live. But that was taken away from them, so a bunch of white people on the other side of the world could feel good about themselves and impress their mates at dinner parties.

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  68. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    “DPF: I agree North Korea is horrific, and it is a shame what their citizens have to endure.”

    “a shame”…………… Yep, and the holocaust was a little intemperate.

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  69. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    Take up the White Man’s burden—

    And reap his old reward:

    The blame of those ye better

    The hate of those ye guard—

    The cry of hosts ye humour

    (Ah slowly) to the light:

    “Why brought ye us from bondage,

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  70. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Kea, Islam spread wider via trading than via warfare, but, again, you raise red herrings and I have addressed those already.

    However, you do get down to tintacks and admit that you think colonisation was beneficial to the colonised, including slavery as practiced by the West. That’s a valid point of view, subscribed to by no less than Niall Ferguson, who wrote a book devoted to that very concept. I beg to disagree simply because the vast majority of the people themselves would disagree. Some, sadly, do subscribe to the racist mantra of the white man.

    As regards Africa enriching the West, yes, exploitation of the natural resources of Africa, including human resource,s was hugely beneficial to the West and remains so to this day. To deny that is an indication of profound ignorance, I’m sorry to say. For example, the great tobacco and cotton plantations of the US were made possible by, firstly, the genocide of the First Peoples and, secondly, African slaves kidnapped and forced into labour under absolutely brutal conditions. For those slaves, life was indeed nasty, brutish and short, thanks to the white man.

    What’s worse is that we continue to suck money out of Africa even under the guise of doing good. And I’m talking here about the interest on loans supposedly advanced as development aid (to assist those people to wrest themselves out of the poverty we inflicted on them, and that interest is many times the original amounts of the loans.

    Take Haiti as an example. The first country to free themselves from the double yoke of colonisation and slavery and forced to pay reparations to France as the price of revolt. Then, just a few years ago, as Aristide was making progress in his battle for the return of those billions (in NPV) he was overthrown by the US and France, and Haiti remains victimised by the West, recent debt forgiveness notwithstanding.

    Now, to make matters worse, we are inflicting climate change on the very lands we exploited for all those years, and the funds raised to help them cope is going to be dispensed as loans. Can you believe that?

    Hah! I bet you approve!

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  71. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Zimbabwe is a real life example of how Western ideology has destroyed the lives of millions of blacks.

    Since when the vile tyrant, despot and murderer Mugabe is called “Western ideology“?

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  72. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “…..[DPF: yes there was lots of colonisation in the past. But we live in different times today. Do you believe people of a certain skin colour shouldn't get to vote?].

    NZ already has that in place David – the Maori seats! Non Maori arn’t allowed that vote.

    No one signed the Treaty to implement ‘Identity’ politics so by getting rid of the Maori seats, the Maori parties will then look like what they actually are: Racists.

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  73. RightNow (6,835 comments) says:

    “Islam spread wider via trading than via warfare”

    Unfortunately, in Africa, that trade was largely slaves.

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  74. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “…Since when the vile tyrant, despot and murderer Mugabe is called “Western ideology“?…”

    Since we started to appease him. Appeasement IS Western ideaology.

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  75. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    However, you do get down to tintacks and admit that you think colonisation was beneficial to the colonised, including slavery as practiced by the West.

    Why do you only refer to the “West” and ignore all the rest of history? Why do you consider “white” people as uniquely evil ?

    You are cherry picking, by selecting one small part of history. The bit about Islam being peaceful traders is bullshit. They did as much, if not more, than the Europeans. You are untroubled by that fact, because you don’t see Arabs as white enough.

    Once again you use contemporary Western values to revise history. The ideas that things like slavery and exploitation are wrong, are themselves modern European values. They are NOT values of the Africans. They had more time than anyone to develop democratic liberal societies and clearly did not.

    Please educate me about the pre European mineral and oil industry in Africa ?

    Your full of it Luc. I can not be bothered with racist pretenders who are simply trying to claim the moral high ground, while pushing a recently formed Eurocentric view of the world.

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  76. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Questions are being asked: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83678.html

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  77. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Laugh: http://twitchy.com/2012/11/10/pics-new-york-post-petraeus-cover-wins-todays-tabloid-battle/

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  78. David Garrett (6,712 comments) says:

    Kea: Very good Sir/madam..reminds me also of the Emperor of Japan’s statement to his people announcing that they were surrendering because things “haven’t necessarily gone as well as expected”..or something like that…

    Yep, Zimbabwe and North Korea…shining examples at opposite ends of the earth of the wonderful success of one party states and authoritarian dictatorship as a system of government…

    And I add my voice to those who remind us that today is Remembrance Day….Something I have never forgotten from Uni study of WW I…the Brits lost 60,000 men on the FIRST DAY at the Somme…the entire population of some of our larger provincial cities entirely gone…in one day….

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  79. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Since when the vile tyrant, despot and murderer Mugabe is called “Western ideology“?

    Since white middle class people, living in the lap of luxury on the other side of the world, supported the overthrow of one of Africa’s most successful governments.

    Since they stood idly by while the white farmers, and other productive people were tortured, murdered and exterminated.

    Since they put their ideology ahead of outcomes for people.

    Since they gave support to the same thing in South Africa, knowing its failed every single time.

    Since they don’t admit they stuffed up (Even Minto admits its a horrible mess and a failure)

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  80. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “…..However, you do get down to tintacks and admit that you think colonisation was beneficial to the colonised, including slavery as practiced by the West….’

    Of course it was Luc…..neighbouring tribes in Africa hunted, caught, and sold their neighbours into western slavery.

    Money aside, the health benefits of running after them increased their lifespan….and I might add….the extra exercise forced upon the prospective slaves aided them too. :cool:

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  81. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “…..Since they don’t admit they stuffed up (Even Minto admits its a horrible mess and a failure)…”

    Of course he would…..whites imposing themselves[again] on blacks and creating an enviroment of ‘poverty’ is reason enough to shower them with monetary aid in the next couple of generations.

    The blacks in Africa currently fight over nothing as they have nothing, so the creation of a capitalist system is doomed to failure in short order……all that is left is marxism…..and Minto knows it.

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  82. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    I can’t work out whether Kea is bat-shit crazy or as thick as pig shit.
    For african people, conquest and colonisation was a bad experience, while the colonisers generally thought that it was a good thing for both themselves and the natives that they could bring to a state of ‘civilisation’.
    Funnily enough, throughout history, those doing the conquering have generally enriched themselves and at the same time felt that they were doing the conquered a favour. Those being conquered or colonised have not enjoyed it quite so much.
    These are generalisations. There may be situations where invasion, conquest and colonisation has been entirely to the satisfaction of the victims; but I cannot think of any examples off the top of my head.

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  83. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Funnily enough, throughout history, those doing the conquering have generally enriched themselves and at the same time felt that they were doing the conquered a favour.

    Yes. Just as competing tribes in Africa enrich themselves from the others demise.

    “These are generalisations. There may be situations where invasion, conquest and colonisation has been entirely to the satisfaction of the victims; but I cannot think of any examples off the top of my head.”

    You have to be kidding ! lol what a clown. You would be living in a hut dressed in decomposing animals skins if it were not for ” invasion, conquest and colonisation “. Nothing has done as much to spread technology, literacy, agriculture, food, knowledge and so on. The only problem with Africa is that it was not colonised enough. They stopped too soon. That is why the benefits have never taken hold. Do you get your revisionist history from the Black Supremist webs sites ?

    As an example closer to home, Maori are way better off than in pre European times. They live about 2 to 3 times longer than they used to. Infant mortality is a fraction of what it was. They do not live in constant fear of attack. Even the poorest is way better off than in pre European times.

    Don’t bother putting your white guilt trip onto me. You are racist and insincere. The only principle you have is that “white” people are to blame. If you thought blacks were your equal, then you would not argue special circumstances for them. You are a patronising pretender.

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  84. RightNow (6,835 comments) says:

    So… Rome invaded Britain, and abuse victims go on to become abusers.
    QED – Italy should be bearing the brunt of the blame game.

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  85. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “….There may be situations where invasion, conquest and colonisation has been entirely to the satisfaction of the victims; but I cannot think of any examples off the top of my head….’

    The very wealthy Maori elite! :cool:

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  86. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Rightnow, you must have read a book or something :)

    You missed the Germans, Vikings and other riff raff from all over Europe. They destroyed the language, spiritual beliefs and culture of the indigenous Britons, repeatedly. They stripped natural resources and deforested the whole country.

    They were left with a little barren island with bad weather and few resources.

    So what did they do…………… well history records they rose up and built an empire that stretched around the world. They remain a world power to this day.

    Contrast that with Africa.

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  87. Rufus (645 comments) says:

    Kea- time for the weekly flip-flop is it?

    Once again you use contemporary Western values to revise history. The ideas that things like slavery and exploitation are wrong, are themselves modern European values. They are NOT values of the Africans. They had more time than anyone to develop democratic liberal societies and clearly did not.

    Please educate me about the pre European mineral and oil industry in Africa ?

    Your full of it Luc. I can not be bothered with racist pretenders who are simply trying to claim the moral high ground, while pushing a recently formed Eurocentric view of the world.”

    But isn’t that EXACTLY how you judge the ancient Middle East, and their cultural practices – that is why you hate the Bible so much.

    Let the average contemporary Muslim or African read the OT, and they would’t bat an eyelid at the accounts of ancient ME practices re: warfare, slavery & justice. To them it might seem natural, normal and just.

    But Kea with his lily-white, recently-formed Euro-centric view of the world has decided it’s wrong and evil.

    Your turn again.

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  88. RightNow (6,835 comments) says:

    Kea – I didn’t miss all the others, it’s simply that Rome was first to invade Britain. I see your point though, it’s not necessarily the first to invade that get the blame, much like here in NZ.

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  89. Rufus (645 comments) says:

    Who the hell are you Kea, to decide that Muslims, Africans, Philistines, Moabites, Hebrews, Assyrians, Hittites, Jebusites, Hivites, et al are wrong?

    By what OBJECTIVE measure can you judge them? Your white, liberal, 20th C Eurocentric “morals”?

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  90. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Rufus I have no idea what your on about, re the Middle East ???

    You then go onto to make the same point I have been trying to make, but written in a way that implies I dont agree with it.

    My father was Syrian btw

    Fuck there are some idiots on here today. Maybe its the weather :)

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  91. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘And who were the ‘first to invade’ that should be blamed in some way?

    Kea would possibly only feels that an invasion and conquest was bad if he could feel empathy for those who died as a result. I suspect that empathy might be rather limited for anyone not quite like him.

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  92. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Rufus are you drunk?

    I have been speaking out against contemporary liberal Western values being arrogantly assumed as the gold standard by which to judge other cultures. I consider those who do as narrow minded and ignorant.

    For sure I have those values myself, but I am humble enough to know they are not held by the majority of the world. The vast majority.

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  93. Viking2 (11,244 comments) says:

    6.6 quake strikes Myanmar
    Last updated 15:15 11/11/2012
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/7935006/6-6-quake-strikes-Myanmar

    Hasn’t Johnkey just landed up there somewhere.

    Poor sod’s. At least it wasn’t here again.

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  94. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    mikenmild, are you on the piss with Rufus?

    You are getting desperate and trying to put words in my mouth. In fact that is all any of you fakes have managed to do in support of your point. Even David has chimed in on the act, by suggesting I think black should not be allowed to vote!

    It shows that your do not hold your position based on a sincere and reasoned belief. It shows you only claim to believe what your saying, because you have been taught it is the correct way to think.

    Its politically correct doctrine. However, there was a time when it was “PC” to treat black folk in a very different manner. Guys like you were the ones running the slave trade and committing the worst acts, because it was socially acceptable.

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  95. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    It may be fine and good looking to the past to find Nobel savages.
    The beast does not exist.
    Can you imagine a situation when Maori culture was used to govern this country.
    Not the travesty of today the real culture of the time Maori were not influenced by England.
    Their society used the threat of violence to control social interaction Utu could be claimed and justice served only if you were in a position of strength to start with. You can not take only parts of a system and expect that system to function. Maori culture is not disposed to create what we recognized as a nation only to promulgate a tribal world. Our history in the Anglosphere comes from the English. The history of the English has involved invasion, occupation and assimilation on a repeated basis since man developed the use of metal. When you add the selection process of immigration and the Challengers of the new world. Anglosphere Canada Australia and New Zealand society and its culture so developed to give humanity possible the best out come. We share this honer with the Scandinavian country’s. As far as I can see we are outstanding with our society and do not need to look towards any were else for leadership when it comes to social structure. This includes bastardized versions of a theoretical Maori society.

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  96. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Griff, They do not really believe that crap they are saying.

    If they did they would go live here:

    Central African Republic
    GDP Per Capita: $768 (As of 2011)

    Despite its significant mineral resources; uranium reserves in Bakouma, crude oil, gold, diamonds, lumber, hydropower and its arable land, it remains one of the poorest countries in the world. Diamonds constitute the most important export of the Central Africans Republic, accounting for 40–55% of export revenues. The 2010 UNDP Human Development Report ranks CAR near the bottom of its Human Development Index (159th out of 162 countries) and unlikely to meet its MDG goals. The proportion of Central Africans living on $1 a day has decreased slightly to 62% but it needs to be half of that in order to reach the 2015 goal.

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  97. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    Expanding on ‘Griff’s’ comment a lot of the problems in Africa, & to a certain extent the ME, can be sheeted home to the way their societies are organised along tribal lines. The historic invasions of Britain & the migration to the cities as a result of the Industrial Revolution largely destroyed their traditional tribal society.

    Consequently people of British & USA descent don’t think along these lines & look to nationalistic solutions to tribal problems.

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  98. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Yes nasska.

    We all used to live in tribal societies. That is why I have to laugh at the grovelling reverence shown to Maori tribalism. Europeans have been there, done that. It is not a dig at Maori, but it is a fact.

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  99. publicwatchdog (2,268 comments) says:

    Well well Kiwibloggers – wonders will never cease!

    I’m now able to post again on Cameron Slater’s Whaleoil blog :)

    Looking forward to his considered reply to this question?

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2012/11/serial-troublemaker-alleged-blackmailer-graham-mcready-is-at-it-again/

    “Do you, Cameron Slater, agree that both John Banks and Don Brash should have both been charged as former fellow Directors of Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd, for signing Huljich Kiwisaver Scheme registered prospectuses dated 22 August 2008 and 18 September 2009 which contained untrue statments – a STRICT LIABILITY offence under s.58(3) of the Securities Act?

    Yes or no?

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________

    PS: If anyone has contact details for Graham McCready – I’m rather keen to have a chat about his private prosecution of John Banks over allegations that he filed a false electoral return for his 2012 Auckland mayoral campaign.

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  100. RightNow (6,835 comments) says:

    Cuckoo!

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  101. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Ethnic tribal people are the only ones in western society that are allowed to keep traditional customs. So ‘differance’ I would have thought, must then be a good thing!

    Yet, everyone else in Western society has to denounce traditions for the ‘common good’ no matter what the moral benefit that they have done for mankind down through the generations.

    Yet the people pushing this agenda are nothing but tribal themselves, cue feminists, gays et al: They don’t leave behind any of their practices no matter how unbeneficial they are to themselves and/or others[no man is an island - 'we don't hurt anyone else' - is crap].

    ‘emotional underdevelopment’ is the character trait of these groups, people who cannot accept their own differances, and the need then exists for these differances to be imposed on ‘others’ as not being differant, but equal.

    Sad really.

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  102. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    *^%&&&$*#^#@$%^&&hgnfhynbnb&%*^%^%&^%*%&^^&^%6y

    %$&#&&#^^%^#&HHGTHHJY*6556565^%*@%@$^&^^

    &$%&&^%$&&ghhgf&^&&^&&6

    Kind regards,

    Penny Dim.

    ‘annoy the fuck out of everyone campaigner’

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  103. chiz (1,131 comments) says:

    kea:Can someone explain to me why a man should resign from his position of the basis of who he is fucking?

    Because he has a sensitive position, with access to classified national security information, that potentially makes him vulnerable to espionage or blackmail. In any case it looks like we may not have the whole story yet. It appears that Broadwell, with whom he was having the affair, may have been harassing or threatening another woman – Petraeus’ wife perhaps. Its possible that he didn’t resign because of the affair per se but because of something else related to the affair.

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  104. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    Harriet you are referring to the conservative Christians
    No one on the liberal side on here really wants to remove your right to your own beliefs.
    It’s when the congregation tries to impose their morality and silly superstitious world view on the rest of us that you get resistance.Many Christians comment on here in a sane and measured way. They are not the ones trying to impose there beliefs on the rest of us. “Because God said” is not a valid tool to use in intelligent debate. Especially when a large portion of your audience are non believers.

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  105. Rufus (645 comments) says:

    Kea – it’s very simple. You said – “I can not be bothered with racist pretenders who are simply trying to claim the moral high ground, while pushing a recently formed Eurocentric view of the world.”

    Now tell me again what your problem with the Bible is, and why. Most of it stems from the OT I’d guess.

    I’d counter that most of your dislikes can be explained with reference to a different context – ie. different times, different cultures, different values/norms.

    You judge other cultures, either geographically or historically distant, from the same modern, eurocentric, western values that you are accusing others here of.

    You are no different to them in that regard.

    My question is – on what basis do you propose to judge those cultures?

    Your own subjective preferences?

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  106. Rufus (645 comments) says:

    So admit to having “those values yourself”, but somehow do not use them “as the gold standard by which to judge other cultures”?

    How then do you judge other cultures?

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  107. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Kea#

    “…..Why Conservatives focus on sex so much is a puzzle to me. If I liked “the cock” it would not change my views on the core issues of how our society should be managed by government.

    The right continually lose potential supporters by sticking their grubby noses into peoples bedrooms, with a promise to bring the entire government (into the bedroom) if elected.

    Being a mincing faggot does not make you “left”. Most of the poofs I know are self employed business people. They are potential allies, but do want their basic freedoms protected from zealots. The whole thing is such a non issue and important issues are side lined while there is public debate about who we are allowed to fuck….”

    Making money is a very private matter too – feeding, clothing and housing oneself and a family is certainly above that of ‘gay sex’. Yet governments stick their hands into our backside pockets in belief of the social ‘good’. :cool:

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  108. Scott Chris (5,959 comments) says:

    How then do you judge other cultures?

    Relative to their moral code.

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  109. Rufus (645 comments) says:

    Chiz 4:45 has a very reasonable explanation. As I understand, people in sensitive roles can lose their security clearance if they have an affair – that would impact on their ability to perform those roles.

    Another explanation is that he’s being thrown under the bus. Taking one for the team, so he won’t have to testify in the upcoming Benghazi hearing.

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  110. Rufus (645 comments) says:

    Wasn’t asking you Chris.

    Kea’s the one on the high horse at the mo.

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  111. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Ok Rufus I will try and outline my personal position.

    I want to see every one living in a democratic society. I regard freedom of speech, and open debate, as a fundamental underpinning of a decent society. There are not exceptions to this freedom, in my book. People should not be shut down because someone takes offence to what is being said or for any other reason. This freedom helps inform the democratic process. That’s how I like things.

    However, I realise that other cultures have different ways to my own. I respect those differences, even if I don’t agree with them. Many of those cultures are very old and have a huge history. They have survived all this time, without my liberal Western views, and will continue to do so. This applies to Africa. It may be that a dictatorship works better there. The plight of the African continent breaks my heart, I just want to see something that works for those people, not an ideology imposed from another culture enjoying different circumstances.

    Regarding religion. I am an atheist. In day to day life I respect peoples religious beliefs and seldom debate the topic. I have Muslim & Christian friends, along with irritating new ager/spiritual types. All I ask is that the beliefs of one group are not imposed on another. And yes, that includes imposing atheism on believers. It can be a balancing act, but that is the goal.

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  112. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Griff#

    “….No one on the liberal side on here really wants to remove your right to your own beliefs….”

    That’s true, but not the point I was making[and you know it]. They want to impose their actions and thoughts on all of us.

    You only have to suggest that ‘not all relationships are the same’ which is an absolute truth, and the so called liberals stop being liberals and instead start spewing statism ‘yes they are’.

    Marriage with gays involved, IS imposing an action on us – compliant ignorance.

    Gays are fucken immature.

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  113. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Harriet, the government is not forcing you to “like the cock” , but they are forcing you to pay tax. Forget about the homos and find something important to fuss about. Homos are not a new invention made up by the liberal left, they have been with us forever. Get over it. The left have just used them as pawns in their lust for power. If the right keep their noses out of peoples bedrooms, they will find much more support. Being gay does not make you left. Get it through your head mate :)

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  114. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    Your belief says they are “fucken immature”. I just Think of them as people. You seek to define marriage as between a male and a female. I don’t care who gets married including three men and a goat if that floats their boat. With the proviso that this marriage does not redefine a goat from meat,milk,wool and a type of vermin. :lol:

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  115. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Harriet…… just read your post to Griff. Maybe I got it all wrong….

    It seems that what your really saying is the only thing stopping you being heavily into “the cock” and wanting to marry a bloke, is the law of the armed State preventing you from it.

    Good to see you have come out. I guess you will be posting on the Hand Mirror from now on ?

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  116. Rufus (645 comments) says:

    Kea – that was an uncharacteristically reasonable post.

    Still haven’t answered my question – unless you admit your values are no more than your own subjective preferences, and therefore worthless, at the end of the day. Which I think you are saying in post above, but won’t take to its conclusion.

    Your roar and bluster against OT Middle Eastern cultures is meaningless and illogical.

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  117. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    What would it take for the Bible bashers to wake up, smell the coffee & enjoy the one life they are guaranteed rather than worry about the next one. Get out, drop some acid, smoke a joint, root a sheep or get sodomised……whatever grills your cheese.

    Experiment & experience…..you’ll probably enjoy it! :)

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  118. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Kea#

    “….All I ask is that the beliefs of one group are not imposed on another…’

    I agree with that Kea.

    Rufus and the gays will always denounce facts, observations, results etc as ‘beliefs’ as they hate loseing an ‘arguement’.

    The better part of Marriage is the development of children into adults.Gays don’t procreate. So gay relationships, defined by well developed adults, ARE NOT the same as hetrosexual marriage – developed adults are the very type who SHOULD be getting married.

    They then impose their beliefs, which are lessor beliefs based on valid arguement, upon us by using the words ‘diverse’ ‘fair’ ‘modern’ etc – the cloak of bullshit.

    Stick with your facts and observations of history Kea as it has made life better for all.

    As I’ve said often before, gays ARE immature.

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  119. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    unless you admit your values are no more than your own subjective preferences, and therefore worthless

    YES I ADMIT THAT. (in the context of another culture)

    It also applies to your views too my friend.

    Still no idea what your on about regarding the Middle East. I don’t even know what “OT” means ?

    I think the West has no reason to be there bombing them. Is that your problem ? I don’t hate Muslims. Is that your issue? I am half Syrian. Is that it ?

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  120. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Get out, drop some acid, smoke a joint, root a sheep or get sodomised……whatever grills your cheese.

    Is that your Bucket List nasska ? ;)

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  121. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    Rufus
    Give an example of a better system to structure a society than a parliamentary democracy with the freedom of its citizens to operate within a well structured set of laws.With the inclusion of such innovations as one man one vote, equality, the separation of church and state, innocence in proven guilty and independent judiciary. There is no system on a national scale that gives the equitable outcome and freedom to live your life better than ours does

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  122. Rufus (645 comments) says:

    Harriet – ?

    Kea. OT = Old Testament, you know, the first half of that book you hate so much, and that you judge as “evil”. I suggest you haven’t ever read it cover to cover, as an adult. You simply find bits and pieces against it from your favourite online “atheist-r-us” echo chamber.

    Since your judgement is simply your personal, subjective preference, you cannot claim anything as being “evil”. That would be an absolute, objective statement. You simply don’t like something.

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  123. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    Well the first two have been ticked off Kea. Sheep are a little too common for my exotic tastes & my haemorrhoids rule out sodomy. :)

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  124. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Nasska#

    “…root a sheep or get sodomised……whatever grills your cheese…..Experiment & experience…..you’ll probably enjoy it!….”

    Thanks anyway, but I’ll just take your word about that.

    Although I do like pissing all over peoples arguements. :cool:

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  125. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Rufus, yes I figured out what OT meant. I have no problem with it, where it belongs, in the Middle East. Last time I checked the news, it was not helping things much though.

    As for your remarks regarding my views and what is evil, yes agreed (again). But the same can be said about any persons views. What is your point ?

    Oh and to save you the trouble, do not appeal to the/your bible as an external or higher source of absolute truth and morality ;)

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  126. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Griff#

    “…There is no system on a national scale that gives the equitable outcome and freedom to live your life better than ours does…”

    Spot on Griff.

    Or as Winston Churchill said “Democracy is at times faulty, it’s not perfect, it has failings and shortcomings, but it is far far better than everything else we have tried.”

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  127. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    Acid nasska how evil
    Spending eight hours totally amused with doing the things you do when you are doing nothing :lol:
    I find that pursuit of inter species sex faintly worrying. I know from experience that the pursuit of the opposite sex causes untold grief inter species dalliance would I imagine add to that considerably.

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  128. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    Griff

    Nah…..gay is so yesterday. Interspecies is the new frontier.

    In any case it’s practical….Friday’s centrefold darling is Monday’s chops. :)

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  129. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I know from experience that the pursuit of the opposite sex causes untold grief

    Looks like Griff will be skipping the sheep and moving right onto:

    get sodomised

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  130. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Atheism I believe is a mental disorder.

    Atheists pay good money to go to conferances, buy books and cd’s etc about something they don’t actually believe exists!

    Who else would go to the shops to purchase nothing – and actually ask for it? :cool:

    Also, Atheists don’t believe in God, yet they say endlessly “I don’t believe in God” – going by that, I’d have to say that God probably does exist.

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  131. graham (2,282 comments) says:

    Has ANYBODY who has asked Penny a question ever had a reply from her – considered or not?

    Nah, didn’t think so. So why the hell should she expect anybody to answer her questions? Answer – she shouldn’t.

    You demand transparency from others, Penny – you start by exhibiting some yourself.

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  132. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    Alas kea I to suffer from that malady of advancing age speed bumps up the arse
    Hence as I have not previously partaken in anal penetration I am now in the unfortunate position that it is no longer a viable option and its supposed delights will never be mine to experience. If you so experemint feel free to advise us of the result.

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  133. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    Griff

    You haven’t been caught up in this have you? :)

    Ref: http://imgur.com/gallery/79ucb

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  134. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    Not yet

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  135. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Harriet……. read Richard Dawkins book, The God Delusion.

    He will explain things.

    You won’t have to change your mind, but at least you will know where the other side stands.

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  136. Fletch (6,126 comments) says:

    “Islam spread wider via trading than via warfare”

    Not sure about that. They spread a whole lot via warfare.

    Read Jihad in the West: Muslim Conquests from the 7th to the 21st Centuries by Paul Fregosi.
    I am reading it at the moment, and it proves that Islam was not the passive religion that is sometimes portrayed, but that they were constantly invading since the time of Mohammad.

    Jihad, the Muslim holy war against Christians and others, has raged for 1300 years with bloody conquests in Europe dating from campaigns to convert the infidels in the 7th century to today’s random acts of terrorism in the name of Allah.

    Yet this huge unrecorded ‘hole’ in European history has been censored and stifled by political and literary authorities who have feared reprisals from angry Muslims trying to hide a legacy of brutality vastly more bloody and six times longer in duration than the atrocities of the crusades.

    This is the engrossing factual account of the immense and little-known Islamic military invasions of Europe, and the major players who led them, beginning around 650CE. The Islamic Arabs (and later the Moors) occupied a number of the Mediterranean Islands, and invaded Spain and Portugal in 711CE, and ruled over much of the Iberian peninsula for the next 800 years.

    France was attacked and invaded, as was Italy, and the European coasts all the way to Ireland and Iceland. The Muslims swept over the Balkans, besieged Vienna, and were intermittent masters of Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, and Hungary into the 19th century, destroying the Byzantines, taking Constantinople (turning it into Istanbul). Ambitious and unrelenting, the Muslims also sought to conquer Austria, and Russia.

    In a bright and brisk narrative, Paul Fregosi’s unique and provocative work is the first, and only, general history of the Jihad, the most neglected and disregarded phenomenon in European history.

    Well worth the read for your education, and the Kindle version is only US$10.39

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  137. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    Harriet

    Outside of Kiwiblog & the religious fruitloops it attracts I can’t think of the last time my atheism came up for discussion by anyone including myself.

    It’s you moonbats trying to control others’ behaviour that brings up the subject of belief or non belief every time. Now if you’d take your scriptures & find a nice quiet cupboard to study them in we’ll get on with the important things like sex, drugs & rock ‘n roll. :)

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  138. Rufus (645 comments) says:

    Kea – Richard Dawkins – really? LOL

    Read “The Dawkins Delusion” and see what a lightweight Dicky is.

    Try reading “The Irrational Atheist” – should be able to get it as free download at Day’s “Vox Popoli” blog.

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  139. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Fletch, don’t encourage him to read some history, we will have nothing left to debate.

    Its just enough for him to know that: white = evil.

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  140. Fletch (6,126 comments) says:

    Rufus, also interesting (although I don’t agree with every single thing he says), is The Rage Against God: How Atheism Led Me to Faith, by Peter Hitchens – who is Christopher Hitchens brother.

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  141. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Oh God, I’ve been trying to catch up on the thread.
    I’m now slightly nauseous and unsure whether to go for colonisation penitence (which sounds like sticking something up my arse to crecolonise my bowel); sodomy of another variety; chocolate, cheese, grilled cheese, booze, drugs or fucking a member of another species such as my husband.
    (He’s male, I’m female, may as well be two different species).
    Griff are you still putting up those links that tell us nothing more than a public servant will always back the view of another public servant?

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  142. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    Variety is the spice of life Monique. Harriet is just consoling him(her)self with the thought that the loveless Saturday nights between him/her & the grave are now one fewer. :)

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  143. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Rufus & Nasska & Kea #

    “….People need religion. It’s a vehicle for a moral tradition. A crucial role. Nothing can take its place….” – Irving Kristol

    He explained it better elsewhere but I can’t find it, so here is what he said from memory -

    “….Science and religion are two entirely differant matters. In science you start with a hypthesis and search for evidence to support that hypthesis.
    On the other hand, Religon is a belief, and you believe that you will be better off with it, as it helps support you through life’s certainties and uncertainties.It is based on morals.
    And that is why we teach our children to pray instead of searching for facts to support God’s existance….”

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  144. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Hey, don’t knock the public servants, Monique – they are the backbone of this great little country.

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  145. RightNow (6,835 comments) says:

    Are they? Even the ones at GCSB, ACC and WINZ? Good to hear.

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  146. RightNow (6,835 comments) says:

    “In any case it’s practical….Friday’s centrefold darling is Monday’s chops”

    Brings new meaning to self-saucing.

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  147. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    ??????
    I try to vary my links

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  148. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Nasska #

    “….Variety is the spice of life Monique.Harriet is just consoling him(her)self with the thought that the loveless Saturday nights between him/her & the grave are now one fewer….’

    Which reminds me of last nights joke –

    Once upon a time there was a schoolboy who went by the name of Sindafella, and he was soon going to attend his first formal school ball. He lived with his mum and he was gay.

    On the day of the school ball he approached his mum and said “Mum, I don’t have anything to wear.” His mum being the mum she was, threw some star dust in the air and POOF – Sindafella was spontanously dressed in a pair of electric blue rhinestone spangled underpants and a pair of red cordial coloured chapps. In his mouth was a flourescent green dummy.

    Stuck in his arse was an orange coloured butt plug. As he was about to wave his mother good-bye she said “Enjoy your school ball Sindafella but remember, if you attempt to take out that butt plug or if you don’t return home by midnight, then it will turn into a 3kg pumpkin.” Sindafella acknowledged the advice, waved his mother good-bye, and minced off to the ball.

    Midnight came and went, the hands of the clock went through 2am, then 4am, and at 6am in marched Sindafella. His mother being concerned said “Sindafella I am beside myself, are you O.K?” He replied “Yes mum I couldn’t be happier, I have meet a lovely male friend.”

    Anyway Nasska, that is the original story of Cinderella and how nursery rhymes came to include peter peter pumpkin eater.

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  149. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    Harriet @ 6.55pm

    Crap! Mankind needs religion in the same way we need a third testicle each. In your own words it is a belief, nothing more. It is personal to you & may act as a little ray of sunshine that brings a smidgeon of joy to your otherwise dismal, unhappy & wretched life.

    Happily, other than you forcing it down the throats of your unfortunate loin fruit it is not transferable & rarely contagious. :)

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  150. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘Tis the opiate of the people, after all.

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  151. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    @mikey,

    No it’s been superseded. It’s now welfare that is the opiate of the masses.

    Just look at WFF and taxpayer-subsidised-interest student loans

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  152. Viking2 (11,244 comments) says:

    Moving from the inane and pointless of the day.
    Here’s and idea for NZ Inc. which IMHO is right on the mark.

    Every story has a name – except the one which describes our agriculture.
    This, I argue, is one of the reasons we struggle to tell people around the world and in our cities about what exactly is and has been the basis of our farming’s comparative advantage for the past 130 years.

    No one has an argument about the idea of German engineering excellence, or Italian design flair or a Japanese minimalist Zen aesthetic.
    However, we, NZ Inc, haven’t even managed such a generic name

    http://www.interest.co.nz/rural-news/61968/peter-kerr-worries-our-wonderful-products-

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  153. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “….If you have standards, moral standards, you have to want to make them prevail, and at the very least you have to argue in their favor. Now, show me where libertarians have argued in some comprehensive way for a set of moral standards. … I don’t think morality can be decided on the private level. I think you need public guidance and public support for a moral consensus. The average person has to know instinctively, without thinking too much about it, how he should raise his children….: – Irving Kristol.

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  154. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    bhudson
    Don’t look at me to agree that expanding middle-class welfare and sending too many people to university were good ideas. But compared to religion, they are relatively rational approaches to improving our lot…

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  155. Steve (North Shore) (4,518 comments) says:

    “Hey, don’t knock the public servants, Monique – they are the backbone of this great little country.”
    Right Mike. We should just all join the public service. Unemployment solved.
    And you don’t really pay any TAX, it is just numbers going in circles. Fuck, why didn’t I think of this? I could be the President of NZ

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  156. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    The priest felt it was important for him to warn his congregation about the dangers of cults and sects.
    As part of his sermon he said:

    “These new ‘religions’ are just a pack of weird rituals and chants designed to take away the money of fools!
    Now let us repeat the Lord’s Prayer, but first let’s pass the collection plate!”

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  157. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    @mikey,

    If it enriches their lives (spiritually at least) it is arguably a rational decision

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  158. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    George Carlin put it rather well:

    ….”I love and treasure individuals as I meet them; I loathe and despise the groups they identify with and belong to.”…..

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  159. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    I tend to agree. While it could be rational to hold irrational beliefs; it might be better to say that there can be a rational explanation for irrational beliefs.

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  160. RightNow (6,835 comments) says:

    I suspect many are just in it for the friends and sing-a-longs. Prayer seems to be a valid form of meditation too.

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  161. kowtow (7,914 comments) says:

    mikekmold @ 711 doing what he does best…..regurgitating Karl Marx

    and nasska showing his ignorance…..as usual. The plate does not get passed at that point. more made up anti Christian shite pulled off an internet search.

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  162. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    Did you know there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire & smoke and burning & torture & anguish, where he will send you to live & suffer and burn & choke & scream & cry forever & ever ’til the end of time!

    But he loves you!

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  163. Steve (North Shore) (4,518 comments) says:

    Bullshit nasska, I will suffer and burn & choke & scream & cry forever & ever ’til the end of time, but no sky fairy helps me.
    I just help myself and get on with it

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  164. Steve (North Shore) (4,518 comments) says:

    Big Boys Toys was good for dreaming. Did you see the size of that snooker table (6 x 3M)? and the players can’t play for shit!

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  165. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    I know Steve but I’m a kindly soul & I like to bring them down to earth gently. Having a reasoned, intelligent debate about religion with a religious person is a lot like having a reasoned, intelligent debate with a child about unicorns.

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  166. Nostalgia-NZ (5,025 comments) says:

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/15353847/maori-welcome-for-british-royals-in-new-zealand/

    PM out of step or just being expressive about the wearing of the Anzac poppy?

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  167. Steve (North Shore) (4,518 comments) says:

    nasska, maybe you could convince luc to take his/her medication then.
    That won’t help us here but it may help luc

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  168. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    I’d love to help Steve but I doubt that it is even within the powers of the One that the Godbotherers pester. Fortunately SWMBO will catch him on the computer sooner or later & administer severe punishment but until then the ravings will continue. :)

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  169. RightNow (6,835 comments) says:

    Nostalgia – it’s more sinister than that, he was photo-shopped into the picture.

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  170. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Van der Merwe had never been out of South Africa. While on holiday in
    Australia he decided to spend an afternoon visiting Bondi Beach.

    As he sat on the beach looking out to sea he saw a long line of black
    dots out in the water and said to an Aussie, who was sitting close by,
    “What are all those little black things out there?”

    “They’re buoys,” said the Aussie.

    “Boys?!” replied Van der Merwe.”What are they doing out there?”

    “Holding up the shark net,” the Aussie told him.

    “Fuckin great country!” said Van der Merwe, deeply impressed,
    “We’d never get away with that at home!

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  171. Viking2 (11,244 comments) says:

    I was listening to the radio this morning when the host invited callers to
    reveal the nick-names they had for their wives.

    The best call was from a brave chap who called his wife “Harvey Norman”

    The Host asked him why that name?

    He replied, “Absolutely no interest for 36 months.”

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  172. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    More than anything, Bob wanted to be a cowpoke.
    Taking pity on him, a rancher decided to hire the lad
    and give him a chance.

    “This,” he said, showing him a rope, “is a lariat.
    We use it to catch cows.”

    “I see,” said Bob, trying to seem knowledgeable
    as he examined the lariat.
    “And what do you use for bait?”

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  173. Viking2 (11,244 comments) says:

    Elton & David’s’ Baby – Elegance & Splendor Extraordinaire ! ! !
    cid:X.MA1.1352041790@aol.com
    They had their sperm mixed together and a surrogate mother was artificially inseminated.

    When the baby was born Elton and David were ushered into a ward where a dozen babies were lying in their cots, eleven of them crying and screaming.

    In the corner, one baby was lying serenely. A nurse came over to both of them and indicated that the happy child was theirs.

    “Isn’t it wonderful?” Elton asked David. “All these crying babies…and yet our baby is so content. This just proves the superiority of gay love!

    “The nurse said, “Oh sure, he’s happy now, but just watch what happens when I pull the pacifier out of his ass….”

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  174. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    A man sees a boy with a box of kittens The man goes over and says “Oh what cute kittens!” The boy replies “Yes they are Christian kittens”. About a week later the man sees the boy again with the same batch of kittens. Once again he walks over and says “my, those are just adorable!” The boy replies “Yes, they are atheist kittens” The man asks “wait, weren’t they christian before?” The boy looks at the man and says “Yeah but they have their eyes open now”

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  175. Viking2 (11,244 comments) says:

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/Cd6C1vIyQ3w

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  176. Viking2 (11,244 comments) says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=wq_lhlIn1e0

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  177. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    The ambassador of a small African nation chanced to visit Russia, and was entertained by his opposite number, the Russian ambassador. For three days, the African ambassador was wined, dined, and generally treated to the best hospitality that Russia had to offer. On the final day of his visit, the Russian ambassador said, “As your stay is coming to an end, it is time for you to play our traditional game, Russian roulette. One of the six chambers of this gun is loaded – you spin the cylinder, point the gun at your head, and pull the trigger.” This fazed the African slightly, but he was a proud man of a warrior people, and to show fear would be unthinkable. Both men took their guns, spun, and pulled the triggers.

    Both chambers were empty, and both ambassadors breathed a sigh of relief. The African ambassador was much impressed with the courageous game, and thought hard about the subject before the Russian Ambassador was due to visit his country the next year.

    When the visit came, the African ambassador treated the Russian with all hospitality, until the final day of his stay. Leading him to a private room in the palace, the African ambassador spoke “Now it is time for you to sample our game, African roulette”.

    So saying, he led the Russian into the room, the only occupants of which were six beautiful, naked women. The African ambassador said, “These women are the most beautiful members of one of our tribes. Any one of them will give you oral sex – take your pick”. The Russian was not entirely averse to this idea, but he couldn’t see the connection with Russian Roulette. He said, “Well, ok, great, but where’s the roulette part? Where’s the danger?” With a big grin on his face, the African ambassador answered “One of them is a cannibal.”

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  178. Shunda barunda (2,966 comments) says:

    Another Sunday bites the dust.

    Flammin work tomorrow, gotta meet a reporter and get my ugly mug in the local rag, I’m thinking of pulling a face.

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  179. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Nothing to do with race, of course: http://articles.philly.com/2012-11-09/news/34995157_1_voter-turnout-president-obama-gop-voters

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  180. kowtow (7,914 comments) says:

    griff could take a lesson from his kittens and open his eyes to the global warming scam……..nah don’t think so.

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  181. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Questions abound: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2231203/Barack-Obama-David-Petraeus-Was-relationship-discovered-FBI-months-ago-hushed-election.html

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  182. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    Kow tow Do you you get your science from the denial net work who lie? I will repost this for you
    Griff (3,394) Says:
    November 10th, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    You do not see that the hundreds of geeks laboring away at scientific endeavor They are not political they are not the ones pushing the lefts take on the remaedy The true scientist have answered all the question posed by the denial network guys like Kristy and Watts just can not make a dent in the actual science instead you get lies

    This is an example
    As some one had a brain fart above and posted this story Report: Global warming stopped 16 years ago http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/10/13/report-global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago/

    Which is just this opinion piece: Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released… and here is the chart to prove it

    : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2217286/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-reveals-Met-Office-report-quietly-released–chart-prove-it.html#ixzz2Bnh7bQpn

    Classic propaganda; They are all horrible bourgeois Left-wing academics the scientist
    “the high-flown theories of bourgeois Left-wing academics will not override the interests of ordinary people who need fuel for heat, light and transport”

    So did any of you reach the standard of actually checking for the so called report? Id expect a kid of fourteen to manage that’ Of we go and Google met service and open a web site here http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/2012/10/14/met-office-in-the-media-14-october-2012/

    Met Office in the Media: 14 October 2012
    14102012
    “An article by David Rose appears today in the Mail on Sunday under the title: ‘Global warming stopped 16 years ago, reveals Met Office report quietly released… and here is the chart to prove it’”
    “It is the second article Mr Rose has written which contains some misleading information, after he wrote an article earlier this year on the same theme – you see our response to that one here.” http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/met-office-in-the-media-29-january-2012/

    To address some of the points in the article published today:
    Firstly, the Met Office has not issued a report on this issue. We can only assume the article is referring to the completion of work to update the HadCRUT4 global temperature dataset compiled by ourselves and the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit.”
    We announced that this work was going on in March and it was finished this week. You can see the HadCRUT4 website here.
    Secondly, Mr Rose says the Met Office made no comment about its decadal climate predictions. This is because he did not ask us to make a comment about them.”

    So we then find that the dick was actually telling bullshit in his science stories there was no report and temperature are rising
    That may be a small lie however we have caught him do it twice

    Would you trust

    1 This dick to give you honest science?
    2 Any website that published a lie like this however small to give you unbiased science?

    If you do you get a d- in this lesson for Critical thinking and the net .101

    Here is a real report from real climate journalist not right wing conservos http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/updraft/archive/2012/10/british_met_office_refutes_mis.shtml

    “It’s sad and even dangerous that we live in an era where you have to vet news outlets and determine if they report science from a predisposed political bias. The Daily Mail piece is not peer reviewed science. It’s one guy trying to create smoke where there’s no fire.”

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