General Debate 16 November 2012

November 16th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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149 Responses to “General Debate 16 November 2012”

  1. graham (2,335 comments) says:

    Morning Penny … seen this?! :)

    “New Zealand Tops Our List Of The Best Countries For Business”

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/11/14/new-zealand-tops-list-of-the-best-countries-for-business/

    New Zealand ranks first on our list of the Best Countries for Business, up from No. 2 last year, thanks to a transparent and stable business climate that encourages entrepreneurship. New Zealand is the smallest economy in our top 10 at $162 billion, but it ranks first in four of the 11 metrics we examined, including personal freedom and investor protection, as well as a lack of red tape and corruption.

    Yes, I thought you’d enjoy that.

    Have a LOVELY day!

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  2. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Coup by blog – failure by The Standard to orchestrate a leadership change shouldn’t be surprising. A hard core of union activists who actively repel a broader audience can’t suddenly expect to attract broad support for their coup.

    http://yournz.org/2012/11/16/coup-by-blog-failure/

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  3. Chuck Bird (4,883 comments) says:

    If the offender was a man would a community based sentence even be considered?

    Woman admits sex charges

    A Hawke’s Bay woman who spent two weeks on the run with a 14-year-old girl has admitted charges of unlawful sexual connection with her.

    Appearing in the Napier District Court this morning, Leanna Marie Hodgetts, 39, pleaded guilty to depriving a parent of her child and twice having an unlawful sexual connection with the girl. A third charge was dismissed along with a theft of a vehicle charge.

    Hodgetts and the girl left Hawke’s Bay in May. They then ignored pleas from family members to come home.

    A fortnight later, the girl turned up at a Havelock North retirement village. Police found Hodgetts in Featherston the next day.

    Judge Geoff Rea said Hodgetts’ conviction would be her first strike under the three strikes law.

    He warned that any re-offending that resulted in a second strike would see her serve a jail term without parole.

    A third strike would bring a mandatory maximum sentence with no parole.

    Judge Rea ordered a pre-sentence report with appendices to investigate the suitability of a community based sentence but said there was “certainly no promises”.

    Hodgetts was remanded in custody until next month for sentencing.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7954469/Woman-admits-sex-charges

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  4. Keeping Stock (10,340 comments) says:

    I’m bloody angry this morning. ANOTHER child abuser gets home D because he:

    * pleaded guilty
    * is sorry
    * is doing a stopping violence course

    Here’s what this latest torturer did:

    He subjected his newborn baby to months of torture, biting through her earlobe, twisting her toe until it snapped, fracturing her ribs and femur and gouging the soles of her feet with his fingernail. But he will not spend any time in prison.

    Despite inflicting “significant and repetitive violence” on the baby girl, leaving her little body covered in marks and bruises, Jack Alexander Booker was sentenced to 12 months’ home detention.

    When are our Judges going to start sending a message that beating, abusing and torturing children is completely and utterly unacceptable, and start dishing out deterrent sentences? I know that Judges are constrained by the Sentencing Act 2002 (another legacy of the Clark years), so perhaps the law is an ass as well. But it is time that the justice system gave less weight to the rights of the cowards who beat children, and far more weight to the rights of victims.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/what-has-this-judge-been-reading.html

    (Rant over, until the next case)

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  5. Eisenhower (137 comments) says:

    Parliament spotlight on hand-held lasers
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10847749

    “One of the recommendations was to ban the lasers if found by Customs, similar to knuckledusters and flick knives.”

    It will soon be an offence to posess something as inoccuous as a laser pointer, without reasonable excuse, in the same way as a knife or other weapon.

    Anyone remember scoffing at the scene in Stallone movie Demolition Man where sugar, salt, coffee, meat, cursing, sex etc had all been banned? Well it was no joke, it was a prophecy which is nearly upon us.

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  6. TimG_Oz (862 comments) says:

    DPF – I have one thing you may want to look at.

    The Mobile Experience on Kiwiblog is now detracted – every post puts a long list of “Share this” links down the page, which is making it harder to read the site when you are on the road

    Thanks!

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  7. David Garrett (7,278 comments) says:

    Eisenhower: Yeah….the old leftie “slippery slope” argument the Greens love so much….on every law and order matter they were always implacably opposed, citing alarming places the law could extend to and the great abuses they would give rise to…except, funnily enough, medicinal marijuana…in that case, there was no danger of any abuse at all! Every person obtaining a “prescription” for some pain relieving dope would be genuinely dreadfully sick; no-one would “doctor shop” as pill addicts do now; no-one would sell or pass on their medicinal dope to someone else; no-one would be acquitted because they were growing for “medicinal purposes” only…..

    KS: You will probably like my column in next week’s Truth….

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  8. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    @Eisenhower
    Why the fuck does someone need a laser in the watts range? Enough to set light to paper.
    A visible 5mW laser will accomplish any point task you need. These are fine.

    Anything above 10mW was consider dangerous in the Uni Physics dept. Now they have 1000mW or more as cheap as chips and freely available.

    A recipe for trouble. A quick (accidental) shine in the mirror and someones eye is fucked faster than the blink reflex. Hate to imagine drunken dickheads let lose in public as these become more common.

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  9. Keeping Stock (10,340 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett – look forward to it.

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  10. Longknives (4,746 comments) says:

    Come on John Key you are a bloody Prime Minister stop acting like a gutless wimp! You were elected to deal with such matters (not sweep them under the carpet lest you offend your friends the Maori Party)…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7957439/Whanau-Ora-grants-inquiry-not-needed-PM

    The much maligned Winston Peters is 100% correct on this issue- Whanau Ora is a rort and a blatant fraud on the New Zealand taxpayer.

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  11. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Heh – The Israeli Defence Force has helpfully Tweeted:

    We recommend that no Hamas operatives, whether low level or senior leaders, show their faces above ground in the days ahead.

    Ka – boom!

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2012/11/tweet-of-the-day-25/

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  12. Longknives (4,746 comments) says:

    Elaycee- That tweet is hilarious! Go Israel!

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  13. flipper (4,065 comments) says:

    The silly leader writer in what these days passes for the New Zealand Herald, is at it again. After criticising the Government for not going along with the silly EU/Gillard/Moon/Clark Kyoto II, they are now advocating bullshit “green jobs”.

    Yes….But their editorial views , and those of the so called ” think tank” of the benefits of so called green jobs and a green economy, are in reality advocacy of nothing less than a one way journey to economic perdition. That is another name for the “progressive green job” policies adopted by the EU.

    Here in NZ the red melons (greens) last year promised 100,000 green jobs.

    Lunacy.

    Does the Horrid not know that the EU finally recognised that for every “green created”, 2.2 jobs were lost ?. Do we really want the 25 per cent employment rates now applicable in Spain, Portugal and Greece – with double didgit rates in just about every other EU nation ? Does the horrible Herald not know why California is approaching bankruptcy? Their advocacy of “green” issues is just uninformed and silly.

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  14. Eisenhower (137 comments) says:

    @Lance, did you even read the link or the bill? Its for ANY laser pointer not just high powered ones.

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  15. kowtow (8,475 comments) says:

    Otago University left wing professors…….a global sigh of relief at the Messiah’s re election.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/234103/obamas-second-term-effectiveness-questioned

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  16. kowtow (8,475 comments) says:

    keeping stock and child torture.

    Judges refuse to gaol serious criminals while parliament criminalised traditional parenting!

    Is it any wonder that so many of them are held in such contempt by the electorate? They really are out of touch.

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  17. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Hundreds of affluent New Zealanders could have chunks of their life savings wiped out in what is feared to be a massive Ponzi scheme.

    Yesterday, the High Court at Wellington made public the first receivers’ report on Ross Asset Management, whose office on The Terrace was raided by the Financial Markets Authority on November 2.

    What can I say. told you guys conspiracies existed. Most of you were probably EEC deniers in the 70’s as well.

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  18. Griff (7,715 comments) says:

    Do you hunt lance?
    5mw may be fine for standing in an office pointing at the wall it will not show on a bunny at 10m in daylight.
    Or show up on the arse of the Maori running off with your sheep.

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  19. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    NZ ‘needs population of 15 million for growth’

    The country’s economic performance can be resurrected only by building more scale, including increasing our current 4.4 million population, a new report on boosting Kiwi exports said.

    Prepared by NZIER for Export New Zealand, the Lifting Export Performance report said New Zealand’s smallness and isolation stifled export growth.

    Increasing the population by easing immigration rules would create bigger domestic companies which could translate into expansion into overseas markets, it said.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/business/7958939/NZ-needs-population-of-15-million-for-growth

    This is the result of continual govt waste from both sides of the house over decades while the people get the blame

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  20. kowtow (8,475 comments) says:

    Rachel Morton,TV3 Australia correspondant on Firstline telling us of mass redundancies in TV “journalism” over there. She also described Cardinal Pell as the “Archbishop of Canterbury”. With “journalists” as crap as that I’m not surprised they’re going under.
    The sooner the better.

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  21. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    @Eisenhower
    Yes I did read the link etc.
    To explain, no I don’t think a blanket ban is sane.
    But very freely available high powered lasers are ‘in-sane’.
    Maybe they could be registered like firearms………………………… yes I know yet more regs is far from ideal but 1000mW or more Lasers are fucking dangerous, especially in the hands of nincompoops, who unfortunately are in abundance.

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  22. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Two of the more nonsensical memes always trotted out during the regular slaughters in Gaza are:

    1. Israel has a right to self defense. The missing truth: Gaza has no such right.

    2. Hamas once, always and forever provokes Israel into acts of mass murder. The missing truth: Gaza and the West Bank are under attack every day, in a multitude of ways, including fatal attacks from IDF forces and settler terrorists.

    http://www.theheadlines.org

    The above is a link to a daily journal of the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank.

    Serious people will browse the pages through the days and months and years leading up to when Israel kicked off this long planned invasion with the high profile assassination of their Palestinian southern zone ‘enforcer’ and decide for themselves what actually constitutes provocation.

    Serious people will also understand that Gaza is still under siege for the heinous sin of electing the government they saw as best representing their interests. The ensuring blockade has kept the entire population of Gaza under both physical and mental stress of the most extreme kind, not the least of which is enforced isolation – mass solitary confinement in what is best described as a giant concentration camp.

    Serious people will additionally understand that there is there exists a comprehensive international framework to end this conflict, including that Israel must withdraw from the occupation of what remains of Palestine and commit to the development of a Palestinian state, and that Israel and the US block this framework from becoming a reality.

    And finally, the worst misconception that does most to ensure that this conflict will remain ongoing is that of Israel’s ruling classes who dream that one day they will wake to find Palestinians have melted away. One can only say that they are slow learners.

    My sympathies go out to all the innocent victims – the latest of which appears to be a UN teacher in Gaza. Here is a live stills feed of scenes in Gaza.

    http://rt.com/online-exclusive/galleries/israel-palestine-situation/carries-gaza-strikes-woman/#gaza-early-view-hours

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  23. kowtow (8,475 comments) says:

    Mass solitary confinement with half a million others……..hahahahahaha. Favourite past time in solitary confinement,other than making and firing rockets at civilians? Making babies,tens of thousands of little Aminas and Abdullahs ready and willing to overpopulate,overcopulate and over throw first, Israel and then the rest of the west.

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  24. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    The precautionary principle very much applies to Israel don’t you think Luc?

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/gaza-conflict-escalates-as-rockets-fired-on-tel-aviv/story-e6freuy9-1226517792867

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  25. Keeping Stock (10,340 comments) says:

    And right on cue, here comes Luc Hansen, avowed anti-Zionist…

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  26. wf (442 comments) says:

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/what-has-this-judge-been-reading.html

    I ask, why wasn’t the mother on the stand, along with her ‘partner’ who perpetrated the torture on the child. By leaving her baby alone with him she gave him tacit permission to continue his destructive behavior.
    There are no acceptable excuses.

    If she didn’t know what was happening, if she was so unobservant, the child should have been removed from her care. There are no acceptable excuses.

    I call for such women to be denied any financial assistance until they have themselves sterilized.

    The last thing this country needs are more children growing into semi-adulthood, only to repeat the behaviour of their adult role models.

    DG, thankyou for your comment yesterday :)

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  27. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Hundreds of affluent New Zealanders could have chunks of their life savings wiped out in what is feared to be a massive Ponzi scheme.

    That will be Labour’s economic policy then…

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  28. Fletch (6,389 comments) says:

    Welcome to the truth of ObamaCare.

    Hundreds of jobs have been lost since Obama won re-election, as companies cannot afford to pay the new health insurance for their employees.

    One such company is Denny’s. The owner of the chain says he’ll have to cut employees hours and charge customers an extra 5%.

    With Obamacare due to be fully implemented in January 2014, Metz has justified his move by claiming it is ‘the only alternative. I’ve got to pass on the cost to the customer.’

    The fast-food business owner is set to hold meetings at his restaurants in December where he will tell employees, ‘that because of Obamacare, we are going to be cutting front-of-the-house employees to under 30 hours, effective immediately.’

    ‘I think it’s a terrible thing. It’s ridiculous that the maximum hours we can give people is 28 hours a week instead of 40,’ said Metz to the Huffington Post.

    ‘It’s going to force my employees to go out and get a second job.’

    Obamacare requires businesses or franchises with more than 50 workers must offer an approved insurance plan or pay a penalty of $2,000 for each full-time worker over 30 workers.

    The program mandates that only employees working more than 30 hours a week are covered under their employers health insurance plan, chains like Olive Garden and Red Lobster are already considering reduced worker hours.

    ‘Obviously, I’d love to cover all our employees under that insurance,’ said Metz.

    ‘But to pay $5,000 per employee would cost us $175,000 per restaurant and unfortunately, most of our restaurants don’t make $175,000 a year. I can’t afford it.’

    Several other restaurants including Papa John’s, Apple Metro and Jimmy John’s have announced plans to skirt Obamacare by reducing employees hours to make them part-time.

    Indeed, Metz is adding the surcharge because he believes that eventually firms will be fined for not covering staff who complete over 30-hours in a week.

    Welcome to ObamaCare, where you’ll need two part time jobs, if you can find them…

    ps, list of companies that have shed jobs, closed, or gone bankrupt is HERE (with links to the news websites reporting the job losses). There are a LOT.

    ObamaCare is likely to bankrupt America.

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  29. Griff (7,715 comments) says:

    lance

    A reasonable power for hunting would be 30-50 mw

    Are there any other reason to use the technology ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laser_applications

    Including : A surgical method utilizing laser energy to remove tissue. With laser prostate surgery a fiber optic cable pushed through the urethra is used to transmit lasers.
    And even manufacturing the tube U use to drain the piss out of people.

    Best not to ban it.

    To many uses of lasers.

    Most you would look at is signing the paper work if purchased if over 50mw and control the border. You can buy anything from the china mail order net work. Make that more difficult. Most I am aware of will not export lasers if there is onerous border paperwork :grin:
    Its use as a weapon is already illegal as is dazzling planes etc. Prosecute under the present law.

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  30. Fletch (6,389 comments) says:

    ps, according to the Dept of Labour in America, jobless claims rose by 78,000 after the election.

    In the week ending November 10, the advance figure for seasonally adjusted initial claims was 439,000, an increase of 78,000 from the previous week’s revised figure of 361,000. The 4-week moving average was 383,750, an increase of 11,750 from the previous week’s revised average of 372,000.

    http://www.dol.gov/opa/media/press/eta/ui/current.htm#.UKTvPI7paao

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  31. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    @Luc
    Sigh, here we go again

    Please tell me what nation on earth would tolerate 1000 missiles fired at it one year, 120 in 2 weeks?

    IF these Hamas dickheads stopped firing missiles then if Israel attacked it would look like an aggressor.
    But of course Israel wouldn’t attack if it wasn’t relentlessly fired upon.

    FFS stop talking shite and face it, the terrorists you defend want this. They actually want this.

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  32. Scott Chris (6,137 comments) says:

    according to the Dept of Labour in America, jobless claims rose by 78,000 after the election.

    Wouldn’t surprise me if 78,000 people were directly or indirectly employed using super-pac money which has now, presumably, run dry. (for the time being) But of course the correlation is tenuous.

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  33. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    @Griff
    Medical / Industrial lasers are obviously fine. They are expensive and not that portable. I think I made it abundantly clear what my position was and this is a tiresome side issue, especially medical FFS. Shesh they have scalpels, morphine and all manner of restricted items the general public aren’t allowed to carry around.

    You might be right, it may be too difficult to control el-cheapo imports but that doesn’t alter the fact this problem will get worse.
    Conversely el-cheapo imports might sell RPG’s but I are pretty sure that is import restricted ;-)

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  34. Scott Chris (6,137 comments) says:

    Stephen Colbert is given advice on how to siphon off the money in his super-pac without trace:

    http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/421160/november-12-2012/colbert-super-pac-shh—-secret-second-501c4—trevor-potter

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  35. Griff (7,715 comments) says:

    I linked to a range of uses and made a wry reference to two prostrate surgery and taking the piss
    Lasers are everywhere there is one in you car dash

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_laser_applications

    Laser cutting
    Laser welding
    Laser drilling
    Laser marking
    Laser cladding, a surface engineering process applied to mechanical components for reconditioning, repair work or hardfacing
    Photolithography
    Optical communications over optical fiber or in free space
    Laser peening
    Guidance systems (e.g., ring laser gyroscopes)
    Rangefinder / surveying,
    LIDAR / pollution monitoring,
    Digital minilabs
    Barcode readers
    Laser engraving of printing plate
    Laser bonding of additive marking materials for decoration and identification,
    Laser pointers
    Laser accelerometers
    OLED display manufacturing
    Holography
    Bubblegrams
    Optical tweezers
    Writing subtitles onto motion picture films.[22]
    Power beaming, which is a possible solution to transfer energy to the climber of a Space elevator
    3D laser scanners for accurate 3D measurement
    Laser line levels are used in surveying and construction. Lasers are also used for guidance for aircraft.
    Extensively in both consumer and industrial imaging equipment.
    In laser printers: gas and diode lasers play a key role in manufacturing high resolution printing plates and in image scanning equipment.
    Diode lasers are used as a lightswitch in industry, with a laser beam and a receiver which will switch on or off when the beam is interrupted, and because a laser can keep the light intensity over larger distances than a normal light, and is more precise than a normal light it can be used for product detection in automated production.
    Laser alignment
    Additive manufacturing
    plastic welding
    In consumer electronics, telecommunications, and data communications, lasers are used as the transmitters in optical communications over optical fiber and free space.
    To store and retrieve data in optical discs
    Laser lighting displays (pictured) accompany many music concerts.

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  36. Fletch (6,389 comments) says:

    The politically correct BBC is at it again, referring to Tel Aviv as the capital of Israel in a Tweet.

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  37. Fletch (6,389 comments) says:

    I know it sound ridiculous, but it Looks like one of the women Petraeus was involved with was an Arab spy lobbyist

    Jill Khawam Kelley was the hand-picked lobbyist for Muslim nations and their agenda at Central Command.

    Kelley, who is part of the soap opera that the Petraeus scandal spawned, was in charge of hosting parties and social events to push the Islamic agenda of Middle Eastern countries. She was seen by Muslim Mid-East nations, especially Hezbollah-controlled Lebanon, as the “go to” woman to push their agenda on top American generals. She was a lobbyist for their cause and, yet, wasn’t required to register as a lobbyist, like all others who host lavish parties for top American officials, like she did, in an attempt to influence U.S. policy in the Middle East.

    Kelley, a dhimmi Christian Arab of Lebanese descent, was well known in the Muslim Arab embassies of Washington for doing their bidding and hosting their parties at and near MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa, where our nation’s top generals are based. It’s where Central Command–the U.S. Armed Forces’ leadership over wars and military personnel Middle East–is headquartered.

    When a friend of mine said that he thought the financially troubled Khawam sisters, Kelley and Natalie Khawam, were spies for Lebanon and the Arab world, I originally expressed skepticism. I believed that these twin sisters with obvious twin nose jobs were merely bimbo gold diggers in slutty outfits, who used their Delilah ways to first nab rich husbands, and then nab idiotic top American generals to participate in Lifetime-Channel-worthy bitter child custody disputes. But then I learned that Ms. Kelley, who was until this week under the radar, was quietly involved in pushing the agenda of Muslim Arab nations on our nation’s top generals with whom she’d grown close by design. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Ms. Kelley got her hooks into our two top generals in the Middle East, David Petraeus and John Allen. I’m now convinced that my friend, lawyer Gary Welsh of Advance Indiana, who has excellent instincts, was correct.

    I’ve long written about the infiltration of Central Command at MacDill Air Base in Tampa by Islamic terrorists. Islamic Jihad founder and convicted Islamic terrorist, Sami Al-Arian, was an instructor on the Middle East to our top generals at MacDill Air Force Base AT THE VERY SAME TIME that he was planning mergers and terrorist attacks in Israel with “the brothers of HAMAS” and while he was bringing Muslim illegal alien Islamic terrorists to the U.S. Al-Arian’s friend and co-conspirator, Ramadan Abdullah Shallah (one of those Al-Arian brought here), who became the Secretary-General of the worldwide Islamic Jihad terrorist group, was also a lecturer at MacDill and also taught our top generals his poisonous views on the Middle East and Israel. FBI and INS agents who investigated Shallah and Al-Arian were alarmed at the influence these two top Islamic terrorists had over CentCom. They were also alarmed to find many books on the inner workings of MacDill in Shallah’s house when they raided it.

    MORE

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  38. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Absolutely Groundbreaking Interview: The Secret of Food Prep

    Steve Shenk is on fire, He sits down with Alex Jones to go over the food prep paradigm. Who will become scavengers, who will become leaders. Which is more important food or guns and many other strategies will be revealed.

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  39. TheContrarian (1,085 comments) says:

    Good ol’ Martyn Bradbury, lying again:
    http://tumeke.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/the-problem-for-climate-deniers-like.html

    Any reader of Kiwiblog will know David Farrar accepts climate change is real and humans are causing it.
    I have left a comment explaining this with a quote from Farrar but will Bomber adjust his article? Will my comment be approved? Or will he continue to lie…?

    My guess is he’ll continue to lie

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  40. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,490) Says:
    November 16th, 2012 at 11:45 am
    The politically correct BBC is at it again, referring to Tel Aviv as the capital of Israel in a Tweet.

    To the best of my knowledge, not a single country, not even Israel’s lapdog, the USA, recognises Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. The ‘eternal and undivided’ meme is just Bibi’s wishful thinking.

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  41. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    @Griff
    Why are you writing all this shit about Lasers?

    As I have already said (now twice!!!!!!!) you can’t ban ALL lasers but some are dangerous. There is proliferation a very high powered very cheap lasers that are a menace especially in the hands of dickheads. Am I wrong here?

    BTW you are explaining laser usage to an Electronics Engineer… you know I have kind of heard of them, kind of designed them into some of my products.

    Go ahead write several more thousand words on this topic but I think it is done to death.

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  42. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,490) Says:
    November 16th, 2012 at 10:39 am

    With Obamacare due to be fully implemented in January 2014, Metz has justified his move by claiming it is ‘the only alternative. I’ve got to pass on the cost to the customer.’

    This is kinda beside the point but everything in the US is passed on to the customer… including paying the employees. They live on the tips you give them which are about 15-20% of the bill. The quoted price also doesn’t include taxes. The United States has a very convoluted way of doing things.

    Obamacare requires businesses or franchises with more than 50 workers must offer an approved insurance plan or pay a penalty of $2,000 for each full-time worker over 30 workers.

    This is a valid criticism of Obamacare. Employers are selfish. It’s the nature of the beast. Business doesn’t work any other way. You make a regulation like this one and they’ll organize things to their advantage.

    A much preferable system is the “socialism” we have here in New Zealand where the government purchases health care directly. But in the United States the more complicated it is the better.

    ‘Obviously, I’d love to cover all our employees under that insurance,’ said Metz.

    Yeah right.

    ObamaCare is likely to bankrupt America.

    Why is it New Zealand can provide adequate health coverage for one third of the cost the United States spends?

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  43. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Re ‘provocation':

    http://imeu.net/news/article0023227.shtml

    The above link outlines the events leading up to the murder of Jabari, the so-called ‘retaliation’ that was, in fact, the opening salvo of a planned campaign.

    Also: Pictures from Gaza under attack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIpBnbnraCY

    Some text from the body of the email I received:

    ACT: 64 ways to act http://qumsiyeh.org/whatyoucando/

    People are subjected to massive well-funded propaganda trying to sell a
    “product” that “Israel is defending itself” by massacring civilians in Gaza
    (again) and engaging in extrajudicial executions of resistance fighters.
    The truth is hard to hide as are the statistics: Over the last four days,
    16 Palestinian civilians were killed including several children (while 3
    Israelis were killed), and over 170 Palestinian civilians were injured
    (very few Israelis). Over 140 military excursions by the most
    sophisticated US supplied war planes and navy ships on 1.5 million people
    in a large open-air prison. Anyone can find the pictures on the internet
    of burned Palestinian babies, mutilated children, devastated neighborhoods,
    and destroyed power plants and infrastructure. The Gaza strip is one of the
    most densely populated areas on earth thanks to the Israeli ethnic
    cleansing creating the largest post-WWII refugee population on earth.
    2/3rd of the 1.6 million people in this arid strip are refugees. All
    Israeli human rights violations are done by US funded horrific weapons for
    which native Palestinians have no defense. Home-made native projectiles
    fair poorly as a response to the massacre by advanced technologies. Yet,
    the US administration still sides with apartheid colonial Israel against
    the native Palestinians and so are the governments of Britain and France
    that are trying to live-up to their colonial activities. Israeli
    authorities intensified their attacks tonight after home-made projectiles
    fired by resistance forces in Gaza landed in Rishon Le Zion (first colonial
    settlement here) and Tel Aviv (first time since the gulf war that sirens
    were heard in Israel’s de facto capital). People of all backgrounds are
    speaking out against these Israeli initiated attacks. Here in Palestine,
    we had demonstrations including against the silly bickering that the
    factions go through. There are also demonstrations around the world
    demanding Israel end its aggression against this impoverished strip of land
    full of refugees. But we must do more than demonstrate and hold vigils.

    Talking of demonstrations:

    Auckland protest against Israeli strikes on Gaza

    2pm, Saturday 17th November, Aotea Square

    Mind you, I remember taking part in a sizeable demo against Bush II’s Iraq debacle, along with millions all over the world. Over one million Iraqis still died and over six million rendered homeless, many permanently.

    “War is always a humanitarian catastrophe” Kofi Annan

    Even worse when it is carried out for the purposes internal politicking. And in this case even the term ‘war’ is a misnomer. This is simply an act of wanton mass destruction and murder by Israel, ensuring Gaza remains in a constant state of de-development with the ultimate aim of forcing the indigenous population of the area from their ancestral lands.

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  44. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    @Luc
    It doesn’t matter which way you spin this (and the spin is pathetic!).

    If Hamas didn’t send hundreds of rockets into Israel then Israel would have no excuse to defend itself.

    So the Palestinians could stick it to Israel by not allowing hundreds of rockets to be launch from within it’s borders. But they don’t.

    You and your cronies are so full of shit on this.

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  45. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    ObamaCare is likely to bankrupt America.

    Bankruptcy is not a concept applicable to the US or any country that has fiat currency. The country can always print money. The constraint is inflation, not solvency.

    And the illogic of this statement is that healthcare costs are by far the major cause of individual bankruptcies in the US. And healthcare premiums are by far the major cause in the take home incomes of middle income US citizens remaining stagnant over decades.

    By far the biggest single problem with Obamacare is the lack of a single payer i.e. government provided insurance cover.

    Even better still is Weihana’s suggestion.

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  46. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Lance

    What part of the words occupation and blockade don’t you understand? Do you have any real understanding of the history of Gaza?

    In addition, you had no time to read the links I posted so you are simply talking through an ideological hole in your face.

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  47. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    Good grief
    I agree with LUC on the USA’s health system. It does suck.

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  48. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    It’s not all that I’m correct on, Lance.

    ;-)

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  49. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    @Luc
    It’s fucking simple……………..

    Stop firing the fucking rockets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    After a year of rocket firing (1000) the Israelis hatched a plan. Are you seriously saying nobody else would do the same thing under the circumstances?

    Stop firing the fucking rockets and Israel will stop retaliating. What part of this don’t you get?
    Instead you want to justify terror attacks with an endless supply of drivel.

    Stop firing the fucking rockets.

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  50. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    David Garrett (2,858) Says:
    November 16th, 2012 at 8:43 am

    Eisenhower: Yeah….the old leftie “slippery slope” argument the Greens love so much….on every law and order matter they were always implacably opposed, citing alarming places the law could extend to and the great abuses they would give rise to…except, funnily enough, medicinal marijuana…in that case, there was no danger of any abuse at all! Every person obtaining a “prescription” for some pain relieving dope would be genuinely dreadfully sick; no-one would “doctor shop” as pill addicts do now; no-one would sell or pass on their medicinal dope to someone else; no-one would be acquitted because they were growing for “medicinal purposes” only…..

    Nice straw man. Personally I couldn’t give a fuck if adults want to “abuse” marijuana. The fact that for some people marijuana is a legitimate form of treatment simply underscores how objectionable and despicable these laws are that they would be denied treatment while much worse drugs are commonly prescribed by doctors.

    But indeed medical marijuana laws are in fact a step towards legalization and so they should be. The fact that people abuse drugs is not a good argument in favour of prohibition any more than the fact that some people get behind the wheel when they are drunk is a good argument in favour of alcohol prohibition.

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  51. Fletch (6,389 comments) says:

    Pallywood returns to Gaza.

    ‘Tan jacket man’ is seen being carried off as injured, but minutes later in the same video is perfectly fine.

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  52. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    @Fletch
    On the lookout for rusty ambulances

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  53. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Now for something completely different…

    A couple of weeks ago I was directed to an apple call centre in Austin, Texas to get our imac updated – and I was reminded of this with the lead story in today’s Sideswipe column in the Herald about how we tell our story to Americans – and he was unbelieving when I told him we were still on OSX 10.5.8!

    I told him we Kiwis know how to make these things last.

    Then I was unbelieving when he indicated he supported Romney and he was Hispanic!

    We had an interesting conversation which only touched on computers briefly, but my upgrade was successfully completed.

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  54. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    @Lance: You’re wasting your time trying to get Luc to understand logic – he’s short of it by half!

    He usually tries to portray Hamas as something other that what it really is: a bunch of terrorists who think nothing of firing rockets over the border at Israeli citizens but bleat long and hard as soon as the IDF retaliates by sending a few well directed strikes back their own way.

    And if Hamas keeps firing rockets, even iPredict will stop taking bets on the outcome. :D

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  55. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Hey Lance, tell your Israeli mates to get the fuck out of the Palestinian Occupied Territories!

    Stop occupying and oppressing and stealing yet more land!

    Cheers.

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  56. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    @Luc
    You really are a dick aren’t you.
    So you are justifying the terrorists actions because they can’t help it, being oppressed and all?

    And yes I do count some Israeli’s as my mates and proud of it. I went there, I found them reasonable people that shared my western values. The women soldiers are really hot.
    Where as your Islamic terrorist mates despise you and everything you stand for.

    Hey, to each his own.

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  57. James Stephenson (2,180 comments) says:

    Why is it New Zealand can provide adequate health coverage for one third of the cost the United States spends?

    We don’t have a completely out of control medical malpractice industry for one…

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  58. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    Why is it New Zealand can provide adequate health coverage for one third of the cost the United States spends?

    The prices they pay.

    But as simple an explanation as “the prices are higher” is, it is a devilishly difficult problem to fix. Those prices, for one thing, mean profits for a large number of powerful — and popular — industries. For another, centralized bargaining cuts across the grain of America’s skepticism of government solutions. In the Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit, for instance, Congress expressly barred Medicare from negotiating the prices of drugs that it was paying fo

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  59. Ross12 (1,428 comments) says:

    I note that Greenpeace has got its charity status back BUT the following will be very interesting to follow :

    ” The court said Greenpeace also proposes changing its rules to limit its political advocacy to activities that further its charitable objectives. ”

    I suppose it could be read in different ways but I doubt Greenpeace will be able to keep to this proposal

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  60. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Dr. Robert P. Murphy explains that price inflation is the *plan*, not a regrettable byproduct, of QE3. He quotes from economists Scott Sumner and Paul Krugman.

    Fiscal Cliff

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  61. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    An Arizona woman, in despair at the re-election of Democratic President Barack Obama, ran down her husband with the family car in suburban Phoenix on Saturday because he failed to vote in the election, police say.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/7960277/Man-run-over-by-angry-pro-Romney-wife

    Well she was certainly serious about “Get Out The Vote”

    (He was reported to be in a critical condition, so she was clearly a little bit more than miffed.)

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  62. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Luc:

    Hey Lance, tell your Israeli mates to get the fuck out of the Palestinian Occupied Territories!

    Hahahaaaaa…. C’mon Luc… stop being a sock puppet for the terrorists.

    How about reminding your mates in Hamas that, if they keep firing missiles into the sovereign state of Israel, then they can expect to get their arses spanked big time – courtesy of the IDF. :D

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  63. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    Elaycee isn’t it interesting the Israeli elections are in January and this time four years ago they did Operation Cast Lead on Boxing Day and killed 1400. Isn’t that just an amazing coincidence?

    Of course these are real weapons being used against real flesh for election purposes. This cannot be denied. It’s a very strange person who approves of that, in my book.

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  64. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    In this Indiana explosion they still can’t find a cause.

    http://rt.com/usa/news/deadly-explosion-homes-people-544/

    The explosion, which occurred at 11 p.m. Saturday in Greenwood and spread across several blocks, forced hundreds of residents to evacuate from their homes – some of which were completely burnt down. Officials said they were shocked that only two people died in such a powerful blast. The noise from the explosion was so loud that people living three miles away were awoken from their sleep.

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  65. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Reid:

    It’s a very strange person who approves of that, in my book.

    Agree. How anyone could condone terrorism, is beyond me. They’re sick in the head. And possibly a nudist to boot. :(

    OTOH, I have zero sympathy for the terrorist outfit Hamas. None. Zero. Nada. Zip. And if they persist firing rockets over the border into the sovereign state of Israel, then they can expect the inevitable outcome: Israel will wipe them out. It will only be a matter of time. But inevitable.

    And I note the coincidental timing…. but had Hamas not fired the 120+ rockets in the first place….

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  66. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    The List OF 75 US Senators Who Voted To Let 30,000 Drones Shoot Americans In The Streets
    February 13, 2012

    Source: Senate.gov
    Via: Vid Rebel

    The House and Senate voted for the passage of the FAA bill that funds 30,000 drones to surveil Americans knowing that the majority are to be armed initially with shotgun tasers. Two Americans a week die from tasers so these are lethal weapons. But these drones can easily be equipped with machine guns and rockets. I decided to only report the Senate vote because the bill included strong anti-union sections that forced House Democrats to vote against the overall bill. A quick glance of the Senate No votes revealed one staunch Zionist from a strong union state who probably would have voted for the bill if it were a stand alone measure without the union bashing.

    Lamar Alexander (R-TN)
    Kelly Ayotte (R-NH)
    Max Baucus (D-MT)
    Mark Begich (D-AK)
    Michael Bennet (D-CO)
    Jeff Bingaman (D-NM)
    Roy Blunt (R-MO)
    John Boozman (R-AR)
    Barbara Boxer (D-CA)
    Scott Brown (R-MA)
    Richard Burr (R-NC)
    Maria Cantwell (D-WA)
    Tom Carper (D-DE)
    Saxby Chambliss (R-GA)
    Dan Coats (R-IN)
    Tom Coburn (R-OK)
    Thad Cochran (R-MS)
    Susan Collins (R-ME)
    Chris Coons (D-DE)
    Bob Corker (R-TN)
    John Cornyn (R-TX)
    Dick Durbin (D-IL)
    Mike Enzi (R-WY)
    Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)
    Lindsey Graham (R-SC)
    Charles Grassley (R-IA)
    Kay Hagan (D-NC)
    Dean Heller (R-NV)
    John Hoeven (R-ND)
    Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX)
    Jim Inhofe (R-OK)
    Dan Inouye (D-HI)
    Johnny Isakson (R-GA)
    Mike Johanns (R-NE)
    Tim Johnson (D-SD)
    Ron Johnson (R-WI)
    John Kerry (D-MA)
    Herbert Kohl (D-WI)
    Jon Kyl (R-AZ)
    Mary Landrieu (D-LA)
    Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ)
    Carl Levin (D-MI)
    Joe Lieberman (ID-CT)
    Dick Lugar (R-IN)
    Joe Manchin (D-WV)
    John McCain (R-AZ)
    Mitch McConnell (R-KY)
    Robert Menendez (D-NJ)
    Jerry Moran (R-KS)
    Lisa Murkowski (R-AK)
    Patty Murray (D-WA)
    Bill Nelson (D-FL)
    Ben Nelson (D-NE)
    Rob Portman (R-OH)
    Mark Pryor (D-AR)
    John Reed (D-RI)
    Harry Reid (D-NV)
    Pat Roberts (R-KS)
    Jay Rockefeller (D-WV)
    Marco Rubio (R-FL)
    Chuck Schumer (D-NY)
    Jeff Sessions (R-AL)
    Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH)
    Richard Shelby (R-AL)
    Olympia Snowe (R-ME)
    Jon Tester (D-MT)
    John Thune (R-SD)
    Pat Toomey (R-PA)
    Mark Udall (D-CO)
    Tom Udall (D-NM)
    Mark Warner (D-VA)
    Jim Webb (D-VA)
    Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI)
    Roger Wicker (R-MS)
    Ron Wyden (D-OR)

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  67. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    So Reid are you suggesting that Humas are stoogies of the Israeli electoral system. You know, firing hundreds of rockets just before an election?

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  68. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    OTOH, I have zero sympathy for the terrorist outfit Hamas. None. Zero. Nada. Zip. And I note the coincidental timing…. but had Hamas not fired the 120+ rockets in the first place….

    I have no sympathy for them either, Elaycee so I don’t particularly care if Israel kills the people who fire rockets into her, but that’s not what Israel does. Instead Israel knocks not on the terrorist’s door but on the doors all around as well, with a 150mm artillery round. It is not necessary to do this in order to achieve the objective of reducing terrorism, and it’s counter-productive because it produces terrorists.

    So Reid are you suggesting that Humas are stoogies of the Israeli electoral system. You know, firing hundreds of rockets just before an election?

    Lance I’m sorry you can’t tell a ruse when you see it. The fact you can’t doesn’t mean no one else can. Rockets have been fired all the time in the last four years. But only now, so victory and the smell of Arab blood is fresh in the voter’s nostrils come the election, is the offensive launched. This is about as transparent as Hitler’s excuse that the “Polish” attack on the German radio station was the real reason WWII started. After all, if the Poles hadn’t done that, why Hitler may never have invaded. So there.

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  69. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Reid

    It may be opportunist but the garbage has to be taken out sometime & it might as well be when it does the ruling party the most good.

    It happens everywhere…..it’s just politics.

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  70. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    …the garbage has to be taken out sometime & it might as well be when it does the ruling party the most good.

    “The garbage” so far is 6 children, a pregnant woman and seven other innocents, and six terrorists all killed by high explosive and shrapnel and ?? wounded (all of whom are innocent) and the toll will rise. The Israelis will be a surgical as they possibly can with their hellfires that are capable of damage far exceeding this.

    It happens everywhere…..it’s just politics.

    But normally western nations get outraged if say some tinpot African leader tried to win an election by using tactics like this, don’t they. But one nation killing another nation’s civilian innocent people specifically and exclusively in order to get some other people popular in the former nation’s politics, is an evil some western people only tolerate when Israel does it. I find that a peculiar blind-spot and I thank the Lord I don’t have it.

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  71. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    oh dear… Reid is attempting to pull Godwins law out.

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  72. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    I’ll ask the same question of you Reid, I asked of your mate Luc.
    What nation on the face of this earth would put up with hundreds and hundreds of rockets being fired upon their populous without seeking redress?

    Its a simple question, no answer yet

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  73. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Reid,

    I don’t think Isreal have made a habit of not retaliating to missiles when they are lunched outside of election periods. Your conspiracy theory requires clear evidence of that.

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  74. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Reid

    1) There will always be collateral damage as long as a cowardly pack of guerilla wannabes shelters in schools & mosques. IMHO the Israelis are doing a great job in taking out the protagonists with minimum civilian casualties. Perhaps the bleeding hearts should take this up with the all waffling UN.

    2) I reckon that the sheer number of atrocities committed in Africa have worn everyone down to the point where the practice is considered normal. I accept that it doesn’t happen often in Western countries but neither do most developed nations have a bunch of primitives firing rockets at their civilians on a daily basis.

    As others have already stated above, when Israel is no longer the destination for rockets fired by Hamas I would expect that Israel will cease retaliation.

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  75. Yoza (1,873 comments) says:

    Lance (1,501) Says: “What nation on the face of this earth would put up with hundreds and hundreds of rockets being fired upon their populous without seeking redress?”

    So I guess you have no problem with Iraq organising a military strike on US civilians after the thousands of rockets the US hailed on them.

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  76. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    And YEs….
    yoza trolls on in with a straw man.

    Answer the fucking question.

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  77. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    I don’t think Isreal have made a habit of not retaliating to missiles when they are lunched outside of election periods. Your conspiracy theory requires clear evidence of that.

    Well perhaps you should look into it, because they did.

    What nation on the face of this earth would put up with hundreds and hundreds of rockets being fired upon their populous without seeking redress?

    None and I’ve never suggested Israel should not suppress the rocket attacks. My argument has always been, for years and years and years and still some don’t get it, is that der, it’s not fucking working, is it. People get angrier and angrier. For some reason. Crikey. How fucking peculiar. You mean high explosives and white-hot shrapnel for some reason make people angry? At this point, idiots start thinking about how tewwible the big meany tewwowists are. But this is not about the tewwowists, it’s about the civilians. Der.

    Because that’s where the tewwowists come from. So every single time Israel does this, it creates more young men and women who will give their lives to stop this beast.

    Now if you want to reduce this sentiment in a population of Arabic descent (fiery, etc) and with their history what pray tell is the best policy? Is it to treat that population like dogs, with your boot on their throats, all the time? Gee, what a conundrum. I wonder what history says about what happens when human beings are treated like that? Crikey. It doesn’t work? Der. Of course not, it never has, never ever ever ever ever ever.

    Some people hallucinate this means I’m suggesting Israel should relax her security posture. Nothing could be further from the truth. Israel would strengthen its security posture both regionally and internationally if she adopted my techniques. I’ve never suggested and don’t believe that Israel should relax her big stick, I’m not naive, I know what these people are, of course I do. No. I’m saying don’t wield the big stick so brutally, so cynically and so indiscriminately. Don’t do any of those things, ever again. Simple as that.

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  78. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    @Reid: Whilst its awful that innocents have been killed on both sides of the border, unfortunately it happens when terrorists commence to ply their trade by lobbing ordnance over the border into the sovereign state of Israel. And Israel is 100% within their rights to retaliate.

    Indeed, Israel has reacted to terrorism in the same way that the USA hunted down and sorted out Bin Laden. But the big problem for the Hamas terrorists is that the IDF is more than capable of killing the snake. :D

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  79. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    1) There will always be collateral damage as long as a cowardly pack of guerilla wannabes shelters in schools & mosques.

    Pinpoint squads and leaders. Send in a platoon to get them and protect the squad from attack with drones. Rocket team in an olive grove? Use a hellfire. On an apartment building roof? Use snipers.

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  80. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    So Reid
    In between your childish smarm, you seem to be saying Israel should defend itself (which you said it has the right to do) by doing nothing?

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  81. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    Ah finally, an sane answer from Reid.

    Good debating point at last.

    But wouldn’t this more precise surgical response require an invasion?

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  82. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    innocents have been killed on both sides of the border

    Three in the last few days as an initial response to the original Israeli attack which implies their previous attacks were holding back, and how many before then? A handful over many years. Hardly any. I think at a guess, around 12, over ten years vs 1400 CIVILIANS i.e. YOUR MUM, NOT TERRORISTS in one go 4 years ago in Cast Lead

    That’s right Elaycee. Innocents have been killed on both and none of it is right. But what does this have to do with anything I’ve been saying above.

    This is not about whether the Israeli’s are morally justified, which is where you go if you argue the tewwowists are gweat big meanies. This IS NOT a moral argument. So don’t raise ethical issues, such as whether the Israeli’s are morally justified. This is not relevant.

    This is about military tactics and their effects thereof on population psychology. It’s not an ethics issue.

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  83. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Lance (1,501) Says:
    November 16th, 2012 at 4:09 pm
    So Reid are you suggesting that Humas are stoogies of the Israeli electoral system. You know, firing hundreds of rockets just before an election?

    Regrettably, this is exactly the situation Hamas allows upon itself.

    There is no doubt in the minds of those concerned with ‘facts on the ground’, as some like to put it, understand that Israel deliberately manufactures these ‘crises’ at election times. I find myself bewildered by the willingness of Hamas to go along with their part in this ploy – just as I am bewildered and horrified at their continuing resort to such violence when this strategy clearly has not only been ineffective but even counterproductive over the years, not to mention the needless loss of life on both sides.

    But I’m not one of those traumatised by an ongoing, brutal and all-encompassing occupation following decades of violent colonialism at the hands of the West, including a compliant New Zealand.

    There was a piece I read somewhere that today 30% of Israelis in the southern strike zone (which has been extended to Tel Aviv today) suffer from trauma caused by the fear of rocket attacks. Well, fully 98% (at the last report I saw) of Gazans suffer from the same – I guess there are a small percentage of any group of humans who thrive on conflict.

    Then we have this gem from LAC:

    And if they persist firing rockets over the border into the sovereign state of Israel, then they can expect the inevitable outcome: Israel will wipe them out. It will only be a matter of time. But inevitable.

    The Final Solution revisited. I guess the lessons of history are lost on some.

    Now look, I’m not going to spend all night batting away ridiculous accusations of support for terror – although most here are happy to support Israel’s terror activities – and I have tried to provide links objective analysis and alternative sources of facts other than the mighty Israeli propaganda machine. Unlike many here, I do read and listen to what the both sides are saying, although I find the Australian, Mark Regev particularly distasteful, but maybe that’s just me.

    So here is another informative article to ponder, by an American Jew with a distinguished record in the service of B’Tselem:

    http://www.lobelog.com/continued-us-support-for-israeli-bombing-of-gaza-bodes-ill-for-obamas-second-term/

    Once again, it’s concerned with the the mendacious allegations of provocation by Hamas, in the context of this latest attack by Israel.

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  84. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock (8,323) Says:
    November 16th, 2012 at 10:13 am
    And right on cue, here comes Luc Hansen, avowed anti-Zionist…</blockquote

    That's good accuracy for the standards of this blog, although I would add that I have no problems with the principles of Zionism – in fact, I would have some sympathy for it – so long as it didn't involve war, and land theft and much more that is simply evil.

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  85. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    I’m not going to spend all night batting away ridiculous accusations of support for terror

    Bugger. You mean I have to?

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  86. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Luc:

    The Final Solution revisited. I guess the lessons of history are lost on some.

    Bloody hell…. Comprehension still not your strong point, Luc? How the hell could you link the Hamas terrorism to the holocaust? You sad bugger.

    So stop being a prat – I’m talking about the inevitability that Israel will take out the terrorists who are lobbing ordnance into their country and by taking out terrorists, their action will be no different to that of the West and the combined war against Al Queda. And if Hamas stops their acts of terrorism and stops firing the hundreds of rockets, then Israel will have no reason to respond.

    But I’m sure you knew that.

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  87. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    On the wider front I wonder if this is a deliberate provocation from Israel to Iran via the Palestinians.

    As we all know they’re itching for Iran to do something.

    Boy.

    Aren’t Bibi and the others just real men, or what?

    Let’s kill em all.

    “We’ll take what action is necessary to get ourselves re-elected defend our people.” I just heard Bibi say on the radio.

    Oh goody.

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  88. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    wouldn’t this more precise surgical response require an invasion?

    Snipe from stealth helicopters at night is how do it if I were Israel Lance.

    I’m only saying it’s perfectly doable if there was a will to do it. Israel has access to a great deal of US technology much of it classified, as we all know.

    But Israel’s leaders are playing another, astonishingly and evidently counter-productive game. This is why I have always accused Israel’s leaders of acting to degrade not improve Israel’s security. I mean if you think how brainy they are, it’s surprising isn’t it how badly they do in terms of threat reduction over time, especially when they do transparently venal nay actually, criminal things that just make it that much worse.

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  89. iMP (2,385 comments) says:

    Netanyahu has given a press conference re Gaza. http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2012/11/16/netanyahu-israel-press-conference/

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  90. Shunda barunda (2,983 comments) says:

    I get home from work and my 10 year old son tells me he wasn’t allowed to do his speech at school on world war 2 battleships “because people got killed”.

    It would seem that insulating kids from the realities of history and war is very, very important.

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  91. David Garrett (7,278 comments) says:

    Red appears to have gone for a nice lie down…or perhaps he is swimming round the island off main beach…

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  92. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @LAC

    Mass slaughter is mass slaughter by any name. You advocated it. There are 1.6 million human beings living in Gaza and to wipe out all resistance to Israel’s occupation, just how many do you think would have to be killed?

    Have you ever thought that a more peaceful course to stop Hamas’ resistance would be to remove causative events as documented in the links I provided above? You know, the occupation, the settlements, the drones, the fences, the imprisonment of 8-10,000 Palestinians…

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  93. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Reid:Snipe from stealth helicopters at night is how do it if I were Israel Lance.

    What advantage would radar invisibility have here?

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  94. David Garrett (7,278 comments) says:

    I wasnt intending to comment on this booooring subject…

    Luc, you are a man of 60 I believe…I am 55…there has been a “middle east problem” for all of our lives…and there always will be, when neither side is…Oh, f…what am I doing?!! Inviting a rant….Give it up man…worry about something closer to home, that you can actually change…

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  95. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    What advantage would radar invisibility have here?

    Stealth covers sound and visibility reduction as well as radar. They have very very quiet helicopters.

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  96. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    Had this sent to me. Well worth a listen.

    If you haven’t seen this Brit before, you’ve missed an extraordinarily erudite speaker. He is serious when he is funny and he is funny when he is serious. And, boy, is he on point! This is his latest, and I think the first of 2012. Take a look and please pass it on!

    http://dotsub.com/media/b5ee5ada-5b37-4b0b-9916-e0896337ec4b/embed/eng

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  97. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    A Muslim dies and finds himself before the Pearly Gates..

    He is very excited, as all his life he has longed to meet the Prophet
    Mohammad.
    Having arrived at the Gates of Heaven, he meets a man with a beard.

    “Are you Mohammad?” he asks.

    “No, my son. I am Peter. Mohammad is higher up.” And he points to a ladder
    that rises into the clouds.

    Delighted that Mohammad should be higher than Peter, he climbs the ladder
    in great strides, climbs through the clouds coming to a room where he meets
    another bearded man.

    He asks again, “Are you Mohammad?”

    “No, I am Moses. Mohammad is higher still.”

    Exhausted, but with a heart full of joy he continues to climb the ladder
    and, yet again, he discovers an even larger room where he meets another man
    with a beard.

    Full of hope, he asks again, “Are you Mohammad?”

    “No, I am Jesus… You will find Mohammad higher up.”

    Mohammad higher than Jesus!

    The poor man can hardly contain his delight and climbs and climbs, ever
    higher.
    Once again he reaches a larger room where he meets a man with a beard and
    repeats his question:

    “Are you Mohammad?” he gasps as he is, by now, totally out of breath from
    all his climbing.

    “No my son…..I am God. But you look exhausted. Would you like a coffee?”

    “Yes, please, my Lord.”

    God looks behind him, claps his hands and calls out:
    “Hey Mohammad, two coffees !!!!”

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  98. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    At a wine merchant’s warehouse the regular taster died, and the director started looking for a new one to hire.
    A retired Chief Petty Officer, drunk and with a ragged dirty look, came to apply for the position. The director wondered how to send him away.
    They gave him a glass of wine to taste.
    The old Chief tried it and said, “It’s a Muscat three years old, grown on a north slope, matured in steel containers. Low grade but acceptable.”
    “That’s correct,” said the boss. “Another glass, please.”
    “It’s a cabernet, eight years old, south-western slope, oak barrels, matured at eight degrees. Requires three more years for finest results.”
    “Absolutely correct. A third glass.”
    ‘‘It’s a pinot blanc champagne, high grade and exclusive,’’ calmly said the drunk.
    The director was astonished and winked at his secretary to suggest something. She left the room and came back in with a glass of urine.
    The old Navy Chief tried it.
    “It’s a blonde, 26 years old, three months pregnant, and if I don’t get the job, I’ll name the father.”

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  99. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Stealth covers sound and visibility reduction as well as radar. They have very very quiet helicopters.

    I doubt that that is relevant for a very heavily built up area. Sound reduction, as of last year, was only 3 to 4 dB which is quite small.

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  100. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    Three dead bodies turn up at the Dublin mortuary all with very big smiles on their faces. The coroner calls the police to tell them what has happened.’First body: Pierre Dubois, Frenchman, 60, died of heart failure while making love to his 20-year old mistress. Hence the enormous smile, Inspector’, says the Coroner. ‘Second body: Hamish Campbell, Scotsman, 25, won £50,000 on the lottery. Spent it all on whisky. Died of alcohol poisoning, hence the smile.’

    The Inspector asked, ‘What about the third body?’

    ‘Ah,’ says the coroner, ‘this is the most unusual one. Paddy Murphy, Irish, 30, struck by lightning.’

    ‘Why is he smiling then?’ inquires the Inspector.

    ‘He thought he was having his picture taken’.

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  101. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    It would seem that insulating kids from the realities of history and war is very, very important.

    Shunda it’s insulating boys from being boys. We’re not allowed to play, ever again. It’s all part of the plot to turn every single city boy into a metrosexual. Your son’s generation is the first into the testing pens.

    Recall the kindy a few months ago whose teachers decided it would be great if they checked toy guns out and made boys not point them at anyone and use them like they were at a rifle range. The well-meaning female teachers apparently not realising that the whole point of a gun for a boy is to point it at someone and run around behind things and pretend to kill and be killed etc but no, appawentwy, that was weally bad.

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  102. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @DG

    Why pick on me? I’m simply responding to others, with interest.

    And maybe, just maybe, I can walk and chew gum at the same time.

    You?

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  103. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    THE MUSLIMS ARE NOT HAPPY!

    They’re not happy in Gaza ..
    They’re not happy in Egypt ..
    They’re not happy in Libya …
    They’re not happy in Morocco …
    They’re not happy in Iran …
    They’re not happy in Iraq …
    They’re not happy in Yemen …
    They’re not happy in Afghanistan …
    They’re not happy in Pakistan ..
    They’re not happy in Syria ..
    They’re not happy in Lebanon ..

    SO, WHERE ARE THEY HAPPY?

    They’re happy in Australia ..
    They’re happy in Canada ..
    They’re happy in England ..
    They’re happy in New Zealand ..
    They’re happy in France ..
    They’re happy in Italy …
    They’re happy in Germany ..
    They’re happy in Sweden …
    They’re happy in the USA ..
    They’re happy in Norway …
    They’re happy in Holland ..
    They’re happy in Denmark ..

    Basically, they’re happy in every country that is not Muslim
    and unhappy in every country that is!

    AND WHO DO THEY BLAME?

    Not Islam.
    Not their leadership.
    Not themselves.

    THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!

    AND THEN; They want to change those countries to be like….
    THE COUNTRY THEY CAME FROM WHERE THEY WERE UNHAPPY!

    Excuse me, but I can’t help wondering…
    How dumb can you get?

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  104. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Korean presidential hopeful wants to free up Korean internet usage. If you want to do online banking or commerce in Korea you can only use Internet Explorer at the moment, since the security technology used requires activeX and therefore isn’t available for firefox or chrome.

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  105. Shunda barunda (2,983 comments) says:

    appawentwy, that was weally bad.

    :D

    We live in an increasingly dopey society, that’s for damned sure. The future is limp! :)

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  106. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    @Luc:

    There are 1.6 million human beings living in Gaza and to wipe out all resistance to Israel’s occupation, just how many do you think would have to be killed?

    Only the Hamas terrorists, Luc. Only the terrorists. The rest should be entitled to live in peace. So too the residents of the sovereign state of Israel.

    Shalom.

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  107. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    US Tax dollars at work. The Pentagon has been spending money on various projects including:

    • an Office of Naval Research research project that helped spawn Caffeine Zone 2, an iPhone application that tells people how to schedule their coffee breaks.

    [...]

    • $100,000 for a 2011 workshop on interstellar space travel that included a session entitled “Did Jesus die for Klingons too?” The session probed how Christian theology would apply in the event of the discovery of aliens.

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  108. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I wonder what proportion of the inhabitants of Gaza qualify as ‘terrorists’. Anyone with a gun; anyone related to someone with a gun; a member of Hamas; someone who voted for Hamas; anyone who gets in the way?

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  109. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    It was the end of the Gulf war. The Arabs stared over at the Oil Fields and watched them burning. Day and Night the Flames roared into the sky. The Arabs pondered on how they were going to put out the fires when one Arab suggested that they ring ‘Red O Dare’. Red O Dare was contacted but informed the Arabs that he was busy for the next six months. Red O Dare told the Arabs that they should ring his cousin Paddy O Dare from Co Mayo in Ireland. The Arab got on the phone and contacted Paddy. The Arab explained the problem with the Oil Fields to Paddy and asked if he could help. Paddy Replied: “No Problem.” The Arab asked him how quick he could get there and how much would it cost?. Paddy Replied: “I can be there in 10 Hours and it’ll cost ya’ $10,000. “Great”; said the Arab and hung up the phone.

    The Arabs waited in the Desert, still watching the flames shooting into the sky, when all of a sudden an open top truck with four Red Haired Paddy’s comes roaring over the Sand Dunes and heads straight into the oil field. The Arabs shouted to no avail, and the truck drove straight into one of the burning rigs. They jumped out, took off their Denim Jackets and proceeded to beat the fire out with them. The Arabs watched with amazement and two days later the Oil Rig Fire was Out. The four Paddy’s walked to the Arabs and one said….”Jazus..that was rough!”.

    While writing the check for $10,000 he said to Paddy; “And what are you going to buy with all this money?. “Paddy Replied: “Well, the first thing I going to buy a set of brakes for that damn truck!!”

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  110. David Garrett (7,278 comments) says:

    Luc: Because it is inevitably you who brings the damn subject up….which has the same effect as Ure’s “posts”…everyone chiming in with arguments the other side has heard 100 times, and demonstrating positions as doggedly one eyed and intractable as the protaganist they respectively support in the accursed ‘middle east’..

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  111. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    Friday, November 16, 2012
    Bowden’s alarming Treaty analysis
    Muriel Newman’s latest NZCPR Weekly contains an alarming analysis by Roger Bowden, former professor of economics and management at Victoria University. Bowden’s advice, in a nutshell? Forget all that government propaganda about the proceeds of state asset sales going towards health and education, because the money will be entirely swallowed up paying for Treaty settlements.

    These ongoing liabilities include the outrageous “top-ups” built in to the Tainui and Ngai Tahu settlements, whereby what were considered fair compensation sums at the time they were negotiated get ratcheted up to ensure some sort of spurious relativity is retained.

    Here’s the most salient bit from Bowden’s analysis:

    Let’s start with the annual appropriations for running costs, covering such things as negotiation costs, the Waitangi Tribunal & representation, and disbursements under the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Act. The 2012 budget request is $169,969m. The same annual sum (can it ever diminish?) capitalised over 10 years at the current NZ govt bond yield, as the opportunity cost of capital, comes to $1,409m.

    Now add in the cost of outstanding and projected settlements up to 2016 (not 10 years, but bear with me here), amounting to $2,800 m. Together with the capitalised running costs, that comes to $4,209m, if my arithmetic is correct.

    I’m not sure whether this includes the ratchets promised to Tainui and Ngai Tahu in previous settlements, which at the time envisaged a total of $2 billion instead of the $4 billion so far awarded or projected. Last I heard, Tainui and Ngai Tahu will be sharing a top up of $138.5m, but there will be more down the track as the settlements continue to mount. Nor does this year’s Waitangi Vote allow for future annual costs under the ‘co-management’ regimes that are becoming the norm for Waitangi settlements.

    But any way you add up the sums, the message is that present and future commitments under just the one Vote, Treaty Negotiations, will comes to something like 5-6 billion dollars in total present value, probably even more. It’s hard to find Votes with a similarly spectacular explosion. No doubt there are others on a smaller scale; the ministerial travel budget, perhaps? But otherwise, even the traditional biggies like Health and Education seem under control, at least on Treasury projections, especially for Education, which is projected to level off, even turn negative. Expect yet more belt tightening after the latest revenue figures.

    Coincidentally, the latest Treaty settlement bill, compensating Auckland’s Ngati Whatua tribe, passed through Parliament yesterday. Compared with the Tainui and Ngai Tahu deals, it’s relatively small beer. But there are many more potentially large settlements in the pipeline, and there’s a very real prospect that the Crown will have to negotiate water access river by river, hapu by hapu, if the courts rule in favour of Maori water rights .

    Bowden concludes by saying: “The conclusion is inescapable. We need the partial asset sales to finance the soaring costs of the Treaty industry.”

    All of which raises the question that no politician seems willing to confront: how far can New Zealand continue wading into this morass before it becomes completely unaffordable (if it isn’t already)?

    Posted by Karl du Fresne at 10:50 AM
    Labels: NZCPR, Roger Bowden, Treaty settlements
    1 comment:

    Jigsaw said…

    Karl you are also not counting the losses to the Crown. As far as I know all the settlements (certainly Tainui and Ngati Tahu did) all include a clause that says they have first refusal on surplus crown properties in their area. Our local school closed at the end of 1993 and has remained empty and largely unused since then as an asset to be sold when the local tribe gets their settlement. They of course don’t buy anything (at GV) until they have a buyer at a higher sum. Ngati Tahu have made a huge amount this way. I can’t think that I have ever read anything about this in the daily papers – but then it wouldn’t be nice would it!?
    November 16, 2012 12:48 PM

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  112. David Garrett (7,278 comments) says:

    Viking: I am sure you are aware who – or some of whom – negotiated these sweetheart deals which the rest of us will be paying for forever…financially and otherwise. If you are not sure, look no further than National’s cabinet….

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  113. Steve (North Shore) (4,562 comments) says:

    Luc is a troll, just like me. But Luc hijacks General Debate and turns it into Generaly Religious Debate.
    Get a job Luc, like hard out 7.30 to 5pm with hands on work. Make the sale and produce the product. What fucking planet do you live on? just trolling all day. Are you the magpies husband/wife?

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  114. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    If treaty settlements are the biggest fiscal problem facing New Zealand then we are truly living in Godzone.

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  115. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Hey Luc,
    guess what,
    nobody respects the opinion of a self confessed nudist who has declared that he is a nudist
    because of the ,”eye candy.” that apeals to their sicko psych.

    Cant you see that your previous depraved posts have precluded you from having any gravitas.

    I’ll record chapter and verse of your own previous comments if you like.

    Better just to STFU Luc.

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  116. David Garrett (7,278 comments) says:

    Mikey, you occasionally say something more than a little sensible…that comment was not one of them.

    We have allowed ourselves to be exposed to unlimited liability, which will exponentially increase…wage “relativity” was one of the biggest drivers of inflation in the 70s and 80s….this “relativity” will have just as big an impact…

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  117. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    DG. Actually both lots are as bad as one another and this analysis is a bit freightening.

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  118. Steve (North Shore) (4,562 comments) says:

    Treaty Settlements are about who soaks the cork the best Mike.
    In other words, brownmail and votes

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  119. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    It’s just a transfer of wealth from one group to another. doesn’t affect individuals in the long run. Sensible investment. Treaty settlements are definitely better long-term investments than building Transmission Gully or bailing out South Canterbury Finance.

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  120. Steve (North Shore) (4,562 comments) says:

    In case you missed the cork soakers with Janet Jackson:

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  121. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Global warming may not lead to more droughts.

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  122. OneTrack (3,104 comments) says:

    Luc Hansen – When those nutbar Gaza terrorists stop firing missles into Israel, then I will be worried about the Israeli responses. Until then, nope.

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  123. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Which came first, the terrorists or the retaliation? Who are the terrorists and who is retaliating?

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  124. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Another terrorist bites the dust:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/11monthold-son-of-bbc-picture-editor-is-killed-in-gaza-air-strike-8320052.html

    Yep, those 11 month old babies are terrorists, for sure!

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  125. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    The baby wasn’t the target Luc.

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  126. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Prove it, chiz.

    In the type of fire Israel rains down, whomever they hit becomes the target.

    The same applies to the rocket launchers, by the way, but they are just savages, aren’t they? Nutbars. Surely we should hold us ‘civilised’ murderers to higher standards?

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  127. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    The baby wasn’t the target Luc.

    What if it was your baby chiz?

    Or is that too, just “collateral damage?”

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  128. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    So if Israel launch a full-scale invasion of Gaza to kill the terrorists would the deaths of other infants be okay because only terrorists are the target?

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  129. David Garrett (7,278 comments) says:

    Oh, FFS…the last four posts are exactly what I was talking about earlier….just about ANYTHING – except gay bloody marriage – would be more interesting and enlightening than that … It’s never going to change boys! Go find an old TIME magazine from 30 or 40 years ago…look up the “Midlle East” section….aside from the photos being in black and white, and the names of the central actors, it might as well have been written last week…

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  130. Tauhei Notts (1,713 comments) says:

    A day at Riccarton tomorrow.
    What is the best drinking hole for Kiwibloggers after the last race?

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  131. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    David Garrett (2,878) Says:
    November 16th, 2012 at 8:02 pm
    Luc: Because it is inevitably you who brings the damn subject

    Check the record, David, the transcript, as Obama would say. I never bring the topic up first – I’m far to smart to be that silly here – and I usually let lots go by from those that do. But it’s a bit different at the moment.

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  132. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    mikenmild (5,520) Says:
    November 16th, 2012 at 8:18 pm
    If treaty settlements are the biggest fiscal problem facing New Zealand then we are truly living in Godzone.

    The biggest fiscal problem we we have to deal with is the austerity bomb being readied for delivery by Key and English in their deluded, self imposed and unnecessary target of a budget surplus by 2014 when it is almost certain that the world will still be mired in, or bobbing in and out of, recession.

    Happy now, DG? Still off the drink, are we?

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  133. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Prove it, chiz.

    Oh good grief. Some people around here are too ready with the label antisemite for anyone who criticises Israel, but if you really do think that the Israelis are deliberately targeting babies then you are either an antisemite, as frequently charged, or incredibly stupid.

    In the type of fire Israel rains down, whomever they hit becomes the target.

    Silly word games. Target and victim are not synonyms, no matter how much you wish it.

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  134. David Garrett (7,278 comments) says:

    Luc: I am as it happens…thanks very much for your concern as to my welfare…but GD is fucked for the night, so I will leave you all to it….

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  135. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    the last four posts are exactly what I was talking about earlier….just about ANYTHING – except gay bloody marriage – would be more interesting and enlightening than that … It’s never going to change boys! Go find an old TIME magazine from 30 or 40 years ago…look up the “Midlle East” section….aside from the photos being in black and white, and the names of the central actors, it might as well have been written last week…

    Haven’t you been keeping up with ME politics David? Iran, Syria? This is what this is about.

    Sorry if you find it boring.

    I’m surprised you’re incurious as to why it never changes. It’s true that it doesn’t but it’s answering the why that brings fireworks and symphonic surround sound with free Sky, into the living room.

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  136. Fletch (6,389 comments) says:

    Look, as Netanyahu says – the Gazan terrorists PURPOSELY hide behind women and children BECAUSE there will be casualties and they can use the propaganda against Israel.

    I want to remind you that seven years ago, Israel withdrew from every square inch of Gaza. Now Hamas, they took over the areas we vacated. What did it do? Rather than build a better future for the residents of Gaza, the Hamas leadership, backed by Iran, turned Gaza into a terrorist stronghold.

    They fired thousand of rockets at our cities, at our towns, at our civilians, at our children. They’ve smuggled thousands of rockets and missiles into Gaza, and they deliberately place these rockets and missiles in civilian areas: in homes, in schools, near hospitals. This year alone, the fired over one thousand rockets and missiles at Israel, included close to 200 rockets in the last 24 hours.

    I’m stressing this because it’s important to understand one simple point. There is no moral symmetry; there is no moral equivalence, between Israel and the terrorist organizations in Gaza. The terrorists are committing a double war crime. They fire at Israeli civilians, and they hide behind Palestinian civilians. And by contrast, Israel takes every measure to avoid civilian casualties.

    I saw today a picture of a bleeding Israeli baby. This picture says it all: Hamas deliberately targets our children, and they deliberately place their rockets next to their children. Despite this reality, and it’s a very difficult reality, Israel will continue to do everything in its power to avoid civilian casualties.

    ps, they waited until after the election in the U.S to attack because they know Obama is sympathetic toward them and is a pushover. Romney would never have allowed this, and they knew it.

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  137. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    I don’t believe for one second that if Israel laid down their weapons that Hamas would do the same. Israeli citizens are hiding in bomb shelters tonight while Hamas is hiding behind Palestinian citizens. Hamas are 100% responsible for the death of Palestinian citizens. Israel are damned if they do and damned if they don’t, there is no choice for them. The precautionary principle demands that they strike Hamas hard and fast.

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  138. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    And shit like this:

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  139. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    I wonder what proportion of the inhabitants of Gaza qualify as ‘terrorists’. Anyone with a gun; anyone related to someone with a gun; a member of Hamas; someone who voted for Hamas; anyone who gets in the way?

    Presumably, anyone who objects to living in the open air prison that is Gaza. It’s as if New Zealand forcibly confiscated most Maori property and confined most Maoris to the east coast, and then right wing blog bores wondered why they acted violently in response. Hell, I would launch rockets at any country that treated me that way.

    I’m having tribute distinguishing between the tactics of Israel and those of Assad. Both are desperate, weaker than they look, and can’t think of anything better to do.

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  140. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    but if you really do think that the Israelis are deliberately targeting babies then you are either an antisemite,

    I’m saying Israel doesn’t give a toss whom they kill within the confines of Gaza, baby, toddler, child, teenager, women, men, civilians, militants. It’s not anti-Semitism, it’s just a fact, a policy, even, and I would point exactly the same bone at the Palestinian rocket operatives.

    But Israel does it in far greater numbers and, precisely because of their high precision weaponry they like to brag about, they carry greater culpability.

    And, of course, they are the occupiers and in the case of Gaza, blockade enforcers aimed at always and forever humiliating those they have dispossessed.

    @RN

    So what you are asking of Palestinians is complete and abject surrender and then…do what? Become indentured slaves to their conquerors? Emigrate to the USA? Say, we need a bigger population: why don’t we get Israel/US to pay us to resettle them here? And if they Pallys say no, well, I’m sure elaycee can come up with a final solution.

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  141. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Actually Luc, I guess I’m saying they just have to slug it out. Some things only get settled after an epic fight.
    Maybe Iran will get involved and Israel can settle their differences with them too. Perhaps the time has come. It seems an inevitability.

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  142. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Welcome to the Thunderdome.

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  143. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    How about some extreme skiing, to calm us all down:

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  144. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Stand and fight we do consider
    Reminded of an inner pact between us
    That’s seen as we go
    And ride there
    In motion
    To fields in debts of honor
    Defending

    Stand the marchers soaring talons,
    Peaceful lives will not deliver freedom,
    Fighting we know,
    Destroy oppression
    The point to reaction
    As leaders look to you
    Attacking

    Choose and renounce throwing chains to the floor.
    Kill or be killing faster sins correct the flow.
    Casting giant shadows off vast penetrating force
    To alter via the war that seen
    As friction spans the spirits wrath ascending (slowly) to redeem.

    Wars that shout in screams of anguish,
    Power spent passion bespoils our soul receiver,
    Surely we know.
    In glory
    We rise to offer,
    Create our freedom,
    A word we utter,
    A word.

    Words cause our banner, victorious our day.
    Will silence be promised as violence display?
    The curse increased we fight the power
    And live by it by day.
    Our gods awake in thunderous roars,
    And guide the leaders’ hand in paths of glory to the cause.

    Listen, should we fight forever
    Knowing as we do know fear destroys?
    Listen, should we leave our children?
    Listen, our lives stare in silence;
    Help us now.

    Listen, your friends have been broken,
    They tell us of your poison; now we know.
    Kill them, give them as they give us.
    Slay them, burn their childrens’ laughter
    On to hell.

    The fist will run, grasp metal to gun.
    The spirit sings in crashing tones,
    We gain the battle drum.
    Our cries will shrill, the air will moan and crash into the dawn.
    The pen won’t stay the demon’s wings,
    The hour approaches pounding out the Devil’s sermon.

    Soon, oh soon the light,
    Pass within and soothe this endless night
    And wait here for you,
    Our reason to be here.

    Soon, oh soon the time,
    All we move to gain will reach and calm;
    Our heart is open,
    Our reason to be here.

    Long ago, set into rhyme.
    Soon, oh soon the light,
    Ours to shape for all time,
    Ours the right;
    The sun will lead us,
    Our reason to be here.

    Soon, oh soon the light,
    Ours to shape for all time,
    Ours the right;
    The sun will lead us,
    Our reason to be here.

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  145. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    First a Hizbollah drone was used to provoke Israel, then Syria fired into Israel, then finally Hamas.

    It would seem that Teheran and Damascus are very seriously trying to divert focus on united opposition to the Assad regime developing in Syria and western recognition of it.

    That Hamas (not shia unlike the others) could be amenable to handing over the Palestinian cause to the exploitative use of these other interests speaks to their lack of credibility as a Palestinian nationalist group.

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  146. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson – your refusal to recognise the state of Israel’s right to exist is irrelevant to the rest of the world.

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  147. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Luc, of course Gaza is blockaded – the residents are trying to import longer range missilies than they can produce locally.

    Until they make a peace with Israel or stop either arming themselves or using these arms – nothing will change.

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  148. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    SPC (1,496) Says:
    November 17th, 2012 at 12:33 am

    First a Hizbollah drone was used to provoke Israel, then Syria fired into Israel, then finally Hamas.

    Wow, that’s an entirely new conspiracy theory! Take a bow, SPC.

    You know, I once employed a Sales Manager whose hobby was building and flying model airplanes. He showed me, one Friday, his latest pride and joy that he was test flying that weekend. Monday morning arrived and he came to work distressed. He had launched his pride and joy off the cliffs of Muriwai and watched helplessly as it didn’t respond to his remote control and headed straight out to sea!

    I suspect that’s what happened to Hizbollah’s drone.

    Syria’s mortar shells were most likely sent deliberately by terrorists attacking Assad’s rule. Good tactic. Good cause.

    Then Hamas thought they come come to a truce with Israel until the F16 bombed to death their main conduit to Israel. That was why Jabani was in a car in the open – there was a truce in place, until, as always happens, Israel broke it.

    But there was a purpose to that murder. Operation Pillars of Cloud/Election 2013.

    “To Everything

    There is a season

    And a time to every purpose, under Heaven”

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  149. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Luc’s latest brainfart:

    Then Hamas thought they come come (sic) to a truce with Israel
    …there was a truce in place, until, as always happens, Israel broke it.

    Oh bollocks… stop telling porkies! Those comments are simply a blatant attempt to replace reality with bullshit courtesy of Luc Hansen. You have conveniently forgotten that the Hamas terrorists had lobbed 120+ rockets over the border into the sovereign state of Israel and that resulted in a (long overdue) reaction from the IDF.

    Whilst you’re a self-appointed defender of the Hamas terrorists, your total denial of facts would do Goebbels proud.

    Israel is on their land. Get used to it. And Israel will defend it’s people with all of it’s might. And when the Israelis take off the head off the Hamas snake, don’t come bleating here that you couldn’t see it coming. Because everyone else can…

    The solution is simple – if Hamas stops it’s acts of terrorism and Israel is left in peace, there would actually be no retaliation.

    And as soon as you stop telling blatant lies, there will be no need to point them out.

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