General Debate 19 November 2012

November 19th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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106 Responses to “General Debate 19 November 2012”

  1. Cunningham (837 comments) says:

    Shearer gone or not? I reckon Cunliffe has moved to early.

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  2. Pete George (23,437 comments) says:

    David Shearer’s speech revved up the devoted supporters by was fullmof one liners, cliches and vagueness. It was well coached, well rehearsed but Carefully Crafted Claptrap.

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  3. Pete George (23,437 comments) says:

    Cunningham – awful timing for leadership rumbles, shitting on the party conference.

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  4. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    After a flurry of activity yesterday which pushed the price up, iPredict today has Shearer lasting until February. (Him departing in 2012 is now at less than 3c)

    Based on the numbers DPF put up yesterday, Shearer is toast come February though.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_numbers-2.html

    Demoting Cunliffe will only delay the inevitable it would seem…

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  5. Cunningham (837 comments) says:

    bhudson if Cunliffe fails a second time surely that is the end of his chance. If he had just waited until Feb he would be a shoe in. You have to wonder why he would be so stupid as to move over the weekend.

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  6. Archer (205 comments) says:

    I think Cunliffe should have given his “current” support for Shearer when asked at the conference – then made his move in February. By refusing to support Shearer he’s effectively making himself have to have the challenge now. And while if he failed now he still has his third shot in Feb, I agree with Cunningham that it does make it messier than it needed to be (and it is already very, very messy).

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  7. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Cunningham,

    He didn’t move on the weekend. The change in rules could only be voted in there – if it hadn’t happened there would be no Feb challenge, no 40% threshold to trigger a contest and no votes by membership and unions.

    He also hasn’t moved this week – it is Shearer who is reportedly going to do that. To kill off the Cunliffe challenge (supposedly.)

    All Cunliffe has to do is remain silent, accept the inevitable demotion when Shearer is ‘endorsed’ (endorsed only because Cunliffe won’t challenge this week) and wait until Feb.

    It looks like Shearer won’t be able to survive past Feb regardless of his blustering and showmanship this week.

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  8. Chuck Bird (4,836 comments) says:

    Very interesting item on Sunday about a juror on the second Bain trial.

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  9. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    My ‘theory’ is no work of genius, but it appears that Cunliffe has all but confirmed it…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7966835/Shearer-to-put-leaders-role-on-line

    Shearer has lost the chance to prove his support this week. If he tries, the Cunliffe supporters will all ‘endorse’ him.

    In Feb he is toast

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  10. Archer (205 comments) says:

    I’m wondering if a Labour leadership change could be good news for National? On current polling whoever leads Labour will be Prime Minister in 2014 (last time I checked ipredict favoured a Labour PM too – whoever it might be). National has no viable coalition partners. Could a move to Cunliffe see Labour take back some Left votes from the Greens? Perhaps shift some Centre votes over to National? As National are on track to lose, it couldn’t hurt.

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  11. Cunningham (837 comments) says:

    bhudson he did all but move. During a conference is the worst time to do it. It pisses off alot of people who might have been sympathetic towards him.. I see he is now coming out in full support of Shearer but he should have just done that at the start and gone full guns blazing in Feb.

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  12. Fletch (6,258 comments) says:

    Pallywood returns again.

    So, it turns out that a child killed in Gaza and paraded in front of the cameras (including a CNN report) was likely killed by one of Hamas own missle fired from Gaza. Even the liberal New York Times is suspicious, and it’s also been confirmed by the Palestinian Center for Human Rights.

    It is unclear who was responsible for the strike on Annazla: the damage was nowhere near severe enough to have come from an Israeli F-16, raising the possibility that an errant missile fired by Palestinian militants was responsible for the deaths. What seems clear is that expectations for a pause in the fighting, for at least one family, were tragically misplaced.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/world/middleeast/in-gaza-tragic-result-for-misplaced-hopes-of-cease-fire.html?_r=1&

    But there were signs on Saturday that not all the Palestinian casualties have been the result of Israeli air strikes. The highly publicised death of four-year-old Mohammed Sadallah appeared to have been the result of a misfiring home-made rocket, not a bomb dropped by Israel.

    The child’s death on Friday figured prominently in media coverage after Hisham Kandil, the Egyptian prime minister, was filmed lifting his dead body out of an ambulance. “The boy, the martyr, whose blood is still on my hands and clothes, is something that we cannot keep silent about,” he said, before promising to defend the Palestinian people.

    But experts from the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights who visited the site on Saturday said they believed that the explosion was caused by a Palestinian rocket.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9685564/Israeli-forces-prepare-for-war-as-troops-mass-on-Gaza-border.html

    The Israel Defense Force says that 99 rockets in total that were fired at Israel have hit Gaza itself in four days of conflict.

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  13. Lance (2,629 comments) says:

    But Fletch…
    The terrorist lovers will counter that it is still Israels fault for forcing them to fire it in anger.
    Everything bad will always be Israel and the Great Satans fault.

    BTW
    Who thinks all those throwing shoes at the US consulate look like shit heads when they do so?

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  14. flipper (3,953 comments) says:

    MSM just bannered ” story” that the Cunliffe challenge is over. Cunliffe has, they say, pledged support for Shearer. No mention how long that will last. February????

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  15. Chuck Bird (4,836 comments) says:

    “Who thinks all those throwing shoes at the US consulate look like shit heads when they do so?”

    The US and Oz have been traditional allies for a very long time. If people who want to immigrate to NZ are not happy with that they should go elsewhere or stay where they are.

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  16. flipper (3,953 comments) says:

    Helengrad and her followers at UN “WorldGovernment” HQ being sensible last last?

    This from Climate Conversation this morning:

    “What is happening to the IPCC?

    “For the first time, it’s being left out of the loop
    “The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) will not be attending the upcoming United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP18/CMP8) in Doha, chairman Dr Rajendra K Pachauri has said.
    “For the first time in the 18 years of COP, the IPCC will not be attending, because we have not been invited,” he told Gulf Times in Doha.
    COP18 is to be held from November 26 to December 7.
    “The IPCC, which shared the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize with Al Gore, former vice president of the US and environmental activist, is the leading international body for the assessment of climate change. Currently 195 countries are members.
    Dr Pachauri first hinted about his ‘anticipated absence’ at COP18, while speaking at the opening session of the International Conference on Food Security in Dry Lands (FSDL) on Wednesday at Qatar University.
    Later, he told Gulf Times he did not know why the IPCC has not been invited to COP18, something that has never happened before.
    “I don’t know what it is. The executive secretary of the climate change secretariat has to decide. I have attended every COP and the chairman of the IPCC addresses the COP in the opening session,” he explained.
    via Gulf Times – Qatar’s top-selling English daily newspaper – Qatar.
    “Could this astonishing development have anything to do with the fact that the IPCC reports are demonstrably biased, omit important papers and assume the worst warming possible?

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  17. flipper (3,953 comments) says:

    I wonder what the NZEI would say if “Kuia”, Hekia (aka Lady Gardiner):) said this:

    Primary school teachers ‘could face sack’ for refusing to promote gay marriage
    Primary school teachers could face the sack for refusing to promote gay marriage once same-sex unions become law, a minister has signalled. Source: (currently on) http://www.telegraph.co.uk

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  18. Griff (7,408 comments) says:

    @ Flipper
    That says ? about the science of climate change

    Chairman Dr Rajendra K Pachauri has ALSO said

    Dr Pachauri said a reduction of up to 50% in crop output could happen in rain fed areas by 2020.
    “Climate change in mountain regions has a big impact on agriculture as mountains are the sources for over 50% of the globe’s rivers.
    “This also affects the populated lowland regions that depend on mountain resources for domestic, agricultural, energy and industrial supply.
    “Water resources for populated lowland regions are influenced by mountain climates and vegetation; shifts in intra-annual precipitation regimes could lead to critical water amounts resulting in greater flood or drought episodes.
    “For increases in global average temperature exceeding 1.5-2.5°C and in concomitant atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations, there are projected to be major changes in ecosystem structure and function, species’ ecological interactions, and species’ geographical ranges, with predominantly negative consequences for biodiversity, and ecosystem goods and services e.g., water and food supply.
    “Globally, the potential for food production is projected to increase with increases in local average temperature over a range of 1-3°C, but above this it is projected to decrease.
    “Regional changes in the distribution and production of particular fish species are expected due to continued warming, with adverse effects projected for aquaculture and fisheries.
    “Agricultural production, including access to food, in many African countries and regions is projected to be severely compromised by climate variability and change.
    “The area suitable for agriculture, the length of growing seasons and yield potential, particularly along the margins of semi-arid and arid areas, are expected to decrease.
    “This would further adversely affect food security and exacerbate malnutrition in the continent. In some countries, yields from rain-fed agriculture could be reduced by up to 50% by 2020.
    “Drought diminishes dietary diversity and reduces food consumption, causing an increased risk of mortality and diarrhoea.
    “Heat waves are going to be increased across the world and will occur once in two years instead of the current pattern of once in 20 years.
    “New ways have to be found to manage water resources. There is a need to focus on the totality of the situation. Please convert your oil wealth to soil health,” he urged.

    >>> I really hope to teach you guys some skills in verifying the source of your NEWS. Checking just a little Google away from the denial net work may help

    http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=544308&version=1&template_id=36&parent_id=16

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  19. flipper (3,953 comments) says:

    Griff…
    If you believe in that railroad engineer and the AGW/CC garbage, then you clearly believe that Elvis is on the BS IPCC, and that pigs really do fly.

    Why do you not email Dr Paul Reiter (at the Pasteur Institute, Paris), the world’s foremost authority on malaria and tropical health/diseases (they are actually different and, by the way, thank you Rachael Carson!)), at:

    paul.reiter@pasteur.fr

    and ask him?

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  20. BillODrees (94 comments) says:

    The members voted for a serious say in the leadership of the Labour Party.
    Shearer immediately went all nasty. Wrong approach.
    Shearer wants a vote now, though the members voted for a February vote. Wrong approach.
    Shearer is the one causing the divisions through his bumbling ways. The same Beehive staff as failed in Phil’s days. The same MPs as backed Phil. The same Mallard who fluffed the last election. Wrong approach.
    Shearer does not seem to understand that Saturday’s vote changed the Party for ever. Shearer needs to go.

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  21. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    BillODrees,

    Let the Smarmy Army march! Cunliffe’s troops are unleashed…

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  22. Griff (7,408 comments) says:

    Critical thinking and read the stuff that you claim means agw is a vast conspiracy of scientist and the one world government

    From the un United Nations Climate Change Conference
    http://unfccc.int/files/press/statements/application/pdf/20121021_precop_rok.pdf
    http://unfccc.int/files/meetings/doha_nov_2012/application/pdf/pre_cop_remarks_by_cop17_presidency.pdf
    The scientific fact is that global climate change is upon us, that we are
    experiencing increasing frequency and intensity of extreme weather events and that
    global greenhouse gases continue to rise.

    http://unfccc.int/files/meetings/doha_nov_2012/application/pdf/pre_cop_remarks_by_cop17_presidency.pdf
    It is also a reality that the global nature of
    climate change is such that only a global response can truly meet the challenges
    posed by climate change. There can be no doubt that we are all bound together by
    the threat of our changing climate. Ministers now again have the opportunity to stand
    together and show the political will so desperately needed to meet the climate
    change challenge and move us forward.

    As to playing stupid link wars: a medical fuken doctor
    Going into the denial network to find your silly sources always gives me nausea
    However here is the uks government take on Mr Paul Reiter’s

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldselect/ldeconaf/71/7104.htm
    This is unconvincing. Professor Paul Reiter’s evidence does not accurately represent the current scientific debate on the potential impacts of climate change on health in general, or malaria in particular. He appears to have been quite selective in the references and reports that he has criticised, focusing on those that are neither very recent nor reflective of the current state of knowledge, now or when they were published.

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  23. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    A man ran up to me yesterday and told me everything I told him is coming true

    Watch this Dime

    Giant Middle East War Looming

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  24. Griff (7,408 comments) says:

    Should have learnt this years ago saves cluttering the screen with detail only nutters read.

    learning :grin:

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  25. Lance (2,629 comments) says:

    @hinamanu
    So Obama has been elected, and the Arabs and the Israelis are having yet another fight is like proof the antichrist is moving?

    Wow

    And WTF is that video showing us other than some alarmists view of his commute?

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  26. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    Well, I dont know about “the Globalists” and the “new world order”, but I think he might well be right about an escalation into a major regional war…perhaps even with nukes being used. Millions dead yet again, mostly because of religion and dogma.

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  27. Chi Hsu (101 comments) says:

    hinamanu (1,807) Says:
    November 19th, 2012 at 10:16 am

    Could you please tell me what I need to type into the tags to embed a YouTube video? Thanks very much.

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  28. Griff (7,408 comments) says:

    No one will win
    lots will die needlessly

    At the weekly Cabinet meeting today (Sunday, 18 November 2012):

    1. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu made the following remarks:

    “By now the IDF has attacked over 1,000 terrorist targets in the Gaza Strip and it is continuing its operations as we speak. It is achieving significant hits on weapons aimed at Israeli citizens, as well as on those who use these weapons and those who dispatch them. We are exacting a heavy price from Hamas and the [other] terrorist organizations, and the IDF is prepared for a significant expansion of its operations.

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  29. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    Dr Pachauri said a reduction of up to 50% in crop output could happen in rain fed areas by 2020.

    Of course, that’s complete rubbish isn’t it.

    Does anyone believe for one second that crop yields in certain regions are going to drop 50% in the next 7 years.

    Apparently in global warming circles this is what passes for “science.”

    What other predictions have alarmists made? Quite a lot actually:

    http://www.c3headlines.com/predictionsforecasts/

    Question: Have the alarmists made even one prediction which proved to be correct?

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  30. Lance (2,629 comments) says:

    Todays Hoorald cartoon probably sums it up

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10848354

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  31. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    If “the Holy Land”, and an area within a 500 mile radius of it was destroyed and uninhabitable for centuries, perhaps that would be something of a silver lining in a very black cloud?

    What is the population of the entire Middle East?

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  32. Elaycee (4,356 comments) says:

    Lance (8.47am):

    BTW: Who thinks all those throwing shoes at the US consulate look like shit heads when they do so?

    Yup – the same old tired and wrinkled faces were there – a veritable ‘who’s who’ of society’s dregs, dropouts, unionists, placard wavers and dissidents. Funny too…. they were almost outnumbered by the ranks of the compliant ‘media’. :D

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  33. Lance (2,629 comments) says:

    @DG
    Wont be as simple as that, there will be a lot of other glassed desert as well in a number of previously densely inhabited locations over few thousand mile radius

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  34. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    “Question: Have the alarmists made even one prediction which proved to be correct?”

    Not that I am aware of.

    Griff continues to quote the predictions of “computer models” even though they have a history of being totally wrong. Each time they just tweek the model and tell us another story of certain gloom.

    This is fortune-telling, not science. In no other area of science would this sort of sillyness be tolerated, let alone defended.

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  35. Redbaiter (8,371 comments) says:

    Here’s a news item that should be of special interest to the multi-culturalists among us, especially those multi-culturalists who are female or homosexual. It highlights the wonderful benefits of selling out our Judeo-christian heritage to the “vibrancy of cultural diversity”, and other such fashionable liberal horse shit.

    Two Muslim politicians, who just won municipal elections in Belgium’s capital, Brussels, on October 14, have vowed to implement Islamic Sharia law in Belgium.

    The two candidates, Lhoucine Aït Jeddig and Redouane Ahrouch, both from the fledgling Islam Party, won seats in two heavily Islamized municipalities of Brussels, Molenbeek-Saint-Jean and Anderlecht, respectively.

    During a post-election press conference in Brussels on October 25, the two future councilors, who will be officially sworn in on December 3, said they regard their election as key to the assertion of the Muslim community in Belgium.

    “We are elected Islamists but above all we are Muslims,” Ahrouch said. “Islam is compatible with the laws of the Belgian people. As elected Muslims, we embrace the Koran and the tradition of the Prophet Mohammed. We believe Islam is a universal religion. Our presence on the town council will give us the opportunity to express ourselves,” said Ahrouch, who refuses to shake hands or make eye contact with females in public.

    A one-hour video of the press conference in French has been posted on YouTube. At one point in the video (0:07:40) Ahrouch, 42, says he will strive to make sure that the town council’s “motions and solutions are durable and definitive and will emanate from Islam.”

    Ahrouch, who was sentenced to six months in prison in 2003 for the assault and battery of his disabled wife, also spends considerable time talking about ethics in politics and “respect for the other.”

    Elsewhere in the video (0:25:40), Aït Jeddig, 50, commends Islam as having paved the way for “the emergence of European civilization.” (He makes no mention of Europe’s Judeo-Christian or Greek-Roman roots.) He also insists that Islam is compatible with freedom and democracy.

    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3442/belgium-islamic-state

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  36. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    I hope they do bring in Sharia law Red, and here is why… Women are, by far, the biggest supporters of cultural marxism. The feminist movement has been leading the charge for years.

    A few public lashings, for “morality crimes” may serve to adjust their thinking and temper their hatred of liberal European values and the men who have done so much to develop them.

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  37. Griff (7,408 comments) says:

    Each of the stories can be explored with a critical mind. I am Trying to get you to think for yourself and not believe rubbish web sites.

    First heading your link; http://www.c3headlines.com/predictionsforecasts/

    <blockquote Extreme Climate Change: New Study Concludes That CO2 & Global Warming Had Zero Impact On Winter Storms Over Last 50 Years

    Mean while the republicans lost votes in the east coast. partly due to the fallout from sandy bye bye low-lying Florida :grin:
    Why are you worried about the northeasters when a hurricane just walloped and the f**ken subway is still broken.

    Answer the questions as to
    The funding source and motivation of those in promulgating the denial echochamber

    Far more indicative of who is in on the conspiracy :wink:

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  38. Redbaiter (8,371 comments) says:

    Grief, take your Al Gore far left big government UN one world shit somewhere else FFS.

    Kea, women are victims of a poisonous Marxist controlled academic environment.

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  39. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    Griff, how about the “funding source” of the multi trillion dollar AGW industry ?

    The world will not end like you think Griff. A bit of Sharia law will sort you out too mate In sha’Allah ;)

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  40. RightNow (6,975 comments) says:

    Griff, are you saying Sandy was caused by climate change? I understand climate scientists have actually said there’s no correlation.
    But the real question is – why weren’t they prepared for such a storm? Why didn’t they have a system in place to waterproof the subways?

    As for sources of funding you must by now be well aware that alarmism attracts hugely more funding than scepticism. And rather than alleging a conspiracy I’m more inclined to believe human nature – 1) follow the money (when seeking grant funding etc) and 2) confirmation bias.

    But you read widely so you know all that eh?

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  41. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    Your very chivalrous Red, but women are not “victims” they are instigators behind much of the thinking you oppose.

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  42. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    That’s a very long list of predictions made by global warming proponents, each of which failed miserably.
    Since predictions are a principle means of verifying scientific theories, the only logical conclusion is that the hypothesis has been falsified.

    Anyone who thinks Sandy has got anything to do with (nonexistant) global warming should take a look at what things were like way back in 1974:

    http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/11/15/restoring-the-climate-of-1974/

    Plus of course, there hasn’t been any warming for 16 years.

    This myth is busted.

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  43. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (1,443) Says:
    November 19th, 2012 at 11:48 am

    Here’s a news item that should be of special interest to the multi-culturalists among us, especially those multi-culturalists who are female or homosexual. It highlights the wonderful benefits of selling out our Judeo-christian heritage to the “vibrancy of cultural diversity”, and other such fashionable liberal horse shit.

    An acceptance or tolerance of “cultural diversity” does not imply complete tolerance of any objectionable activity that may wear a thin veneer of tradition and culture. Islam is just a more extreme version of the same crap that conservative Christians peddle in the west. Conservative “judeo-christian values” are merely a mild version of Islamic nutjobbery.

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  44. Griff (7,408 comments) says:

    Kea
    you just spout total bullshit with no basis on reality without any intention of providing a single proof of you iteration. :grin:

    Incapable of having any content kea just reaffirms his belief in a global conspiracy between the evil scientist and the followers of der Clarkinfuerher.
    His merry band of hydro carbon warriors, bolstered by the saintly aspect of conseronuttery crusade against the imposition of science for the saintly desires of the hydro carbon industry :lol:
    Having learnt from past battles against over deadly cohorts of ecofacists, govertment buerocrates and demented professors. He flexes his fingers against the onslaught of fact and data ready to unleash a deadly paragraph of nonsense to ward of the evil spells.

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  45. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (1,444) Says:
    November 19th, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    “Kea, women are victims of a poisonous Marxist controlled academic environment.

    Kea (851) Says:
    November 19th, 2012 at 12:48 pm

    Your very chivalrous Red, but women are not “victims” they are instigators behind much of the thinking you oppose.

    So the conservative approach to women is they’re either too stupid to know any better, or they are just downright evil. With a plan like that to win back the ladies, victory in 2016 is all but confirmed! :)

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  46. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    Weihana, who the hell taught you to read !

    Now get back in kitchen ;)

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  47. Redbaiter (8,371 comments) says:

    Poor Weihana is a victim of that same Marxist academic environment. How else could you explain such bizarre detachment from reality and such frequent logical fallacies?

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  48. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    Griff, COMPUTER MODELS are not going to bring the promised biblical flood, no matter how much your fellow communists, feminists, lizard people and illuminati may want it :)

    How is dinner coming on Weihana ?

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  49. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    RB,

    Clearly Weihana is correct. The problem is no multiculturism, it is Islam.

    To claim otherwise is to suggest that Islam is no worse than all other non-European cultures, which is obviously false.

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  50. Griff (7,408 comments) says:

    Griff, COMPUTER MODELS are not going to bring the promised biblical flood, no matter how much your fellow communists, feminists, lizard people and illuminati may want it

    No content
    Are you stupid? Back up your silly crap with some content
    All I can get from your posts is total confusion between reality and some fantasy in you head.

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  51. Scott Chris (6,043 comments) says:

    (blockquote)bla bla bla(/blockquote)

    =

    bla bla bla

    if you use square brackets, not round ones. Oh, and don’t forget the slash punctuation mark.

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  52. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    Princeton physics professor writes about (the absence of) global warming, including how IPCC supporters have become “frustrated by the lack of computer-predicted warming over the past decade.” He continues “It is important to distinguish between what the climate is actually doing and what computer models predict. The observed response of the climate to more CO2 is not in good agreement with model predictions.

    He concludes with a Feynman quotation: “In general we look for a new law by the following process. First we guess it. Then we compute the consequences of the guess to see what would be implied if this law that we guessed is right. Then we compare the result of the computation to nature, with experiment or experience; compare it directly with observation, to see if it works. If it disagrees with experiment it is wrong.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304636404577291352882984274.html

    Global warming myth. Busted.

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  53. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    Griff, your the one making wild claims, based on “models”

    My beliefs are based firmly on observable reality.

    Now stop all this worry& relax, Weihana will have dinner ready soon.

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  54. Harriet (4,800 comments) says:

    Weihana & Kea #

    Women ARE victims of feminism!

    And the hallmark of a real woman? ……The ability to kill her own offspring. What sort of monstrous and ugly logic is this?

    The truly free and independent woman is the woman who can utterly resist her own maternal instincts and actually kill her own baby in her own womb? ……That is independence?

    If this is the best that modern-day feminism can dish up, then it is time to close up shop – and real fast. This is not liberation. This is not freedom. This is not independence. This is the death of womanhood and the death of humanity. It is the ugly face of feminism.

    G.K. Chesterton, writing of the first feminist movement, said that –

    “…..twenty million young women rose to their feet with the cry, ‘We will not be dictated to’: and proceeded to become stenographers…”. Modern feminists demanded to be freed from every limitation and every moral boundary. All they proceeded to do was sink into bondage and moral darkness.

    Feminists demand independence; normal people recognise quite the opposite-

    We are made for relationship and community, and we need each other. There is no such thing as the fully independent person. Or as has been said elsewhere, no man is an island.We need each other, and we are meant to live in interdependent relationships.

    But all the feminists are interested in it seems are barren power trips where women are cut completely adrift from the complementarity of others. That is some vision of a brave new world.

    The early feminists – the founding mothers of the contemporary feminist movement – were overwhelmingly pro-life. One simply has to read their many writings on this –

    “The rights of children as individuals begin while yet they remain the foetus.” – Victoria Woodhull

    “Abortion is the ultimate exploitation of women.” –Alice Paul

    Yes, some women ‘can’t have their child’ due to late term medical reasons, but the reality of abortion in NZ is that women ‘don’t want their child.’

    WFF proves my point.

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  55. Scott Chris (6,043 comments) says:

    same for bold:

    (b) bla bla bla (/b)

    and italics:

    (i) bla bla bla (/i)

    Remember, square bracket, not round.

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  56. Scott Chris (6,043 comments) says:

    Oh, and by square brackets, I mean > and <, not ] and [.

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  57. Reid (16,230 comments) says:

    Feminists demand independence; normal people recognise quite the opposite-

    We are made for relationship and community, and we need each other. There is no such thing as the fully independent person. Or as has been said elsewhere, no man is an island.We need each other, and we are meant to live in interdependent relationships.

    But all the feminists are interested in it seems are barren power trips where women are cut completely adrift from the complementarity of others. That is some vision of a brave new world.

    Harriet feminists advocate becoming like men. Feminine traits they are told, is weakness. This is why we now have young teen girls getting as pissed as the boys and as often, sleeping around like the boys do too. It’s designed to destroy the ability to have and hold healthy long-term relationships. This is what its been about since day one.

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  58. Griff (7,408 comments) says:

    Kea
    Still claim after claim with no content except some referral to computer models. and political affiliation.
    And a cry to observable evidence. When the overwhelming evidence points to global warming. The Arctic ice collapse is just a myth ? The temperature record is made up?The UN is lying? , All the major scientific bodies are wrong?

    All you do is babble Da models Da models

    Calling you full of shit does not worry you no attempt to defend your views?

    Including the fact that evidence to the contra is a concerted effort by the hydro carbon funded :*Think tanks .

    * Think for you :grin:

    To have people defend the involvement in the denial echo chamber by the hydro carbon industry as purely Altruism is nuts.

    Oil and coal are in it to retain their market share by stalling action as long as possible.

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  59. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    The Arctic ice collapse is just a myth ? The temperature record is made up?The UN is lying? , All the major scientific bodies are wrong?

    Remove all those silly question marks and you will be making sense. I don’t need to “defend my views” the climate and actual events are doing that for me. Like no warming, none of the predictions coming true.

    As for your talk about funding, are you seriously promoting the idea that the “deniers” are the in it for the money! The AGW hoax is a massive industry worth trillions of dollars and employing thousands of people. Do you honestly think they will turn around and admit the hoax, when so much will be lost. It is not the deniers who are wanting to tax the worlds economy to the tune of billions.

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  60. Griff (7,408 comments) says:

    As for your talk about funding, are you seriously promoting the idea that the “deniers” are the in it for the money! The AGW hoax is a massive industry worth trillions of dollars and employing thousands of people. Do you honestly think they will turn around and admit the hoax, when so much will be lost. It is not the deniers who are wanting to tax the worlds economy to the tune of billions.

    The global conspiracy on behalf of the worlds evil scientist defended by the wonderful oil and coal industry.

    I Table my well-known documented trail of money and tactics and its source and you tell me your global conspirwhacky. Involving governments, university’s, science departments, Independent national science bodies, International organisations And the scientist

    Fair swap………………………….not

    You like to preen yourself that you can think kea

    try to do so

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  61. RightNow (6,975 comments) says:

    Griff, I suspect you’ve ‘tabled the well-known documented trail of money and tactics and its source’ before, but feel free to do so again. From memory alarmism is funded about 100:1 compared to sceptics, but don’t let that make you think.

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  62. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    Involving governments, university’s, science departments, Independent national science bodies, International organisations And the scientist

    No. It just involves money.

    Those at the top want power. The scientists are happy to finally have a, much needed, source of funding. If you can tie your research into climate, or other green fantasies, the dollars will come.

    They justify it to themselves on the basis that they are saving the environment and solving social injustice.

    The whole thing is simpler than you make out dear Griff :)

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  63. Griff (7,408 comments) says:

    Like no warming
    Again just the statement
    Proof
    Of you conspiracy please Mr kea
    Have you actually tried to find out if the apparent hiatus in the temperature rise is fully explained by science?
    Wat posted his almost sixteen years and almost no rise before :lol:

    http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/enso/
    http://rspa.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/463/2086/2447.full

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  64. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    Griff, buy a bloody thermometer. See if any coastal cities in NZ are under water.

    Now compare it to the predictions made, for this time, by your “climate scientists”.

    Then relax.

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  65. chiz (1,132 comments) says:

    scott chris:and by square brackets, I mean > and <, not ] and [

    They’re called angle brackets.

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  66. RightNow (6,975 comments) says:

    There you have it Kea, when the temperature flatlines or falls it’s natural variation. When it rises it’s anthropogenic.

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  67. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    the Sun may well have been a factor in post-industrial climate change

    LOL :) :)

    This is from Griff’s link.

    Its called science ! ha ha ha ha

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  68. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    the Sun may well have been a factor in post-industrial climate change

    “Paper finds solar activity at end of 20th century was highest in 9,400 years”

    http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.ca/2012/11/paper-finds-solar-activity-at-end-of.html

    Do you think the Sun could be anything to do with temperature? Nahh. The idea’s just too crazy.

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  69. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    “New paper finds large increase in Northern Hemisphere sunshine since 1982; dwarfs alleged effect of CO2 [12.5 times greater!]”

    http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.ca/2012/10/new-paper-finds-large-increase-in.html

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  70. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    Why does Griff make references to changes in Arctic ice but completely ignore the Antarctic?

    A recent paper in the Journal of Climate finds that most climate models erroneously predict that Antarctic sea ice extent decreased over the past 30 years, which “differs markedly from that observed.” As noted in the abstract, Antarctic sea ice has confounded the models by instead increasing over the satellite era. In fact, it is currently at a record extent that is more than 2 standard deviations above the 1979-2000 average.

    http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-record-high.html

    Hmm. It’s almost as if Griff, like a good little alarmist, is deliberately misrepresenting the evidence…

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  71. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    Re: Those climate models (the only ‘evidence’ the alarmists have)

    ‘German Meteorologist On Temperature Models: “So Far They Are Wrong For ALL Atmospheric Layers!”’

    http://notrickszone.com/2012/10/05/german-meteorologist-on-temperature-models-so-far-they-are-wrong-for-all-atmospheric-layers/

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  72. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    Oh dear God- Climate change.
    I might go back to work….

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  73. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    Unless anyone wants to talk sports? or music??

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  74. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    Do you think the Sun could be anything to do with temperature? Nahh. The idea’s just too crazy.

    Griff’s science mates reckon the Sun has nothing to do with warming the Earth. Them science folks sure are smart.

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  75. Fletch (6,258 comments) says:

    <i>Hello</i> = Hello
    <b>Hello</b> = Hello
    <strike>Hello</strike> = Hello

    <blockquote>this is a quote</blockquote> =

    This is a quote

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  76. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    Have you actually tried to find out if the apparent hiatus in the temperature rise is fully explained by science?

    Which is it Griff?

    Up until today you have maintained, in the face of the evidence, that warming hasn’t stopped.

    Your bare-faced denial of the evidence went so far as to assert that the concept of statistical significance – the means by which we determine if there is a signal in all the noise – was meaningless. And anyone who disagreed with you was axiomatically a conspiracy theorist and servant of big oil.

    Yet now you blithely say that what you like to term the “apparent hiatus” is fully explained by science.

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  77. Steve (North Shore) (4,544 comments) says:

    are you sure

    Fuck it works, and I thought I was a fuckwit with this kind of shit
    Engineers move mountains, not paper

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  78. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Fuck it works, and

    its the little things that really make me happy, been too embarassed to ask how to do this for about two years

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  79. Steve (North Shore) (4,544 comments) says:

    Me too PEB, been Googling and Youtubing and getting shit about indenting left and right, and wrapping. All I wanted was something simple, hat tip to Fletch :)

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  80. Steve (North Shore) (4,544 comments) says:

    “Open Mike” on the Strandard finished at 4.54pm today. Nice to see the Civil Servants have been going hard out all day and now they can do what they want in their own time.
    They will be back again about 9am tomorrow to work for the TAXPAYER

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  81. nasska (11,198 comments) says:

    At a Wednesday evening church meeting a
    very wealthy man rose to give his testimony.

    ” I’m a millionaire,” he said, “and I attribute
    it all to the rich blessings of God in my life. I
    can still remember the turning point in my
    faith, like it was yesterday:

    I had just earned my first dollar and I went
    to a church meeting that night. The speaker
    was a missionary who told about his work. I
    knew that I only had a dollar bill and had to
    either give it all to God’s work or nothing at
    all. So at that moment I decided to give my
    whole dollar to God. I believe that God
    blessed that decision, and that is why I am
    a rich man today.”

    As he finished it was clear that everyone
    had been moved by this man’s story. But,
    as he took his seat, a little old lady sitting
    in the same pew leaned over and said:
    “Wonderful story! I dare you to do it again!”

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  82. Steve (North Shore) (4,544 comments) says:

    This asshole looked at my beer belly last night and sarcastically said, “Is that Export or Lion Red?”

    I said, “There’s a fuckin’ tap underneath; taste it and find out.”

    ***

    I was talking to a girl in the bar last night.

    She said, “If you lost a few kilos, had a shave and got your hair cut, you’d look all right.”

    I said, “If I did that, I’d be talking to your friends over there instead of you.”

    ***

    I went to the pub last night and saw a fat chick dancing on a table.

    I said, “Nice legs.”

    The girl giggled and said with a smile, “Do you really think so.”

    I said “Definitely! Most tables would have collapsed by now. ”

    ***

    I was telling a girl in the pub about my ability to guess what day a woman was born just by feeling their boobs.

    “Really” she said, “Go on then…try.”

    After about 30 seconds of fondling she began to lose patience and said.

    “Come on, what day was I born”?

    I said, “Yesterday.”

    ***

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  83. nasska (11,198 comments) says:

    “Who are we?”
    “Women!”
    “What do we want?”
    “We don’t know!”
    “When do we want it?”
    “Now!”

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  84. Redbaiter (8,371 comments) says:

    Gee whiz Nasska, a misogynist too.. its all becoming quite clear.

    You’re queer as a cut snake aren’t you?

    Must be a lot of fun for you at those country hall dances.

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  85. nasska (11,198 comments) says:

    Fill ya boots Reddy! :)

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  86. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Reddy should ask his Mum to look up some dirty jokes and let him cut and paste them here. Maybe not on a school night though.

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  87. Redbaiter (8,371 comments) says:

    A farmer suddenly dies and his wife is left to run the farm. She puts an ad in the paper and guess what- our gay pinko buddy Nasska applies. He’s old and decrepit, but he seems to know what he’s doing so she hires him.

    Well, things go very smoothly for about a month so the woman decides to go into town and celebrate. She advises Nasska to do the same.

    Well, at about 2:00 in the morning the woman comes home, but Nasska isn’t home yet. So she waits. 3:00 rolls by…4:00… 5:00…finally, at 5:30, Nasska walks in.

    The woman walks up to him and says, “Take off my shirt.” He does. “Take off my skirt.” He does.
    “Take off my bra.” He does.

    “Now,” she says, “don’t ever wear my good clothes into town again!”

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  88. nasska (11,198 comments) says:

    Not bad Reddy…..not bad. :)

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  89. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Back to nasska’s jokes, please.

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  90. Redbaiter (8,371 comments) says:

    What’s the name of this thread Mikey?

    ..and what does the word “debate” mean to you?

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  91. nasska (11,198 comments) says:

    I was thinking along the lines of letting our host decide what was okay on GD. To date he has been remarkably tolerant but if he indicates that joke time is over, sweet as. :)

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  92. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Debate, to me, implies a discourse between two opposing views. I’m happy with the moderation at Kiwiblog. Are you? If you don’t like it; had you thought about starting your own blog?

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  93. nasska (11,198 comments) says:

    Baiter Boy

    “mikenmild’s”comment reminded me that I checked out the Alexa stats for your bombsite of a blog the other day. Congrats…..your Global Ranking is now 954620th in the world. In fact I reckon that if you keep working on it you may yet make it into the top nine hundred thousand!

    One area obviously needs a little work although Reddy. From Alexa, of “the top queries driving traffic to truebluenz.com” No.1 was “the hand mirror”, No.4 was “day care during christmas” & No.9 was “redbaiter knuckle dragging homo”.

    Ref: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/truebluenz.com#

    I’m sure that you’ll accept this constructive criticism in the spirit that it is written.

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  94. Redbaiter (8,371 comments) says:

    Gosh Nasska you’re such a petulant little twit aren’t you?

    Is there anything much more pathetic than an aging and embittered homosexual?

    Nursing his insane hatred of religion all the way to the grave?

    There was a time Nasska when your pathetic attemps to needle might have bothered me, but now, its much more fun to bait you and to let you demonstrate to all and sundry just how pitiful and pathetic you really are.

    Oh, almost forgot the mandatory smiley faces…

    :) :) :)

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  95. Tauhei Notts (1,684 comments) says:

    S

    Steve and Nasska,
    Your jokes late in the day are excellent. I do a bit of public speaking and have used a few of your stories. So much so that one bloke remarked yesterday that he only stayed late so he could hear today’s story as told by me ( and copied from this site). Trouble was, I couldn’t remember any that I could tell in a room with so many thin lipped bitches there at that time.

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  96. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    Red they are indeed the stats for your site.

    “redbaiter knuckle dragging homo”

    You have to see the funny side surely ;)

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  97. Viking2 (11,371 comments) says:

    Two Irish builders (Patrick and Seamus) are seated either side of a table in a pub when a well-dressed man enters, orders a beer and sits on a stool at the bar.

    The two builders start to speculate about the occupation of the suit.

    Pat: – I reckon he’s an accountant.

    Seamus: – No way – he’s a stockbroker.

    Pat: – He ain’t no stockbroker! A stockbroker wouldn’t come in here!

    The argument repeats itself for some time until the volume of beer gets the better of Pat and he makes for the toilet.

    On entering he sees that the suit is standing at a urinal. Curiosity and the several beers get the better of him.

    Pat: – ‘Scuse me…. no offence meant, but me and me mate were wondering what you do for a living?

    Suit: – No offence taken! I’m a Logical Scientist by profession.

    Pat: – Oh? What’s that then?

    Suit: – I’ll try to explain by example …. Do you have a goldfish at home?

    Pat: – Er … mmm …… well yeah, I do as it happens!

    Suit: – Well, it’s logical that you keep it either in a bowl or in a pond. Which is it?

    Pat: – It’s in a pond!

    Suit: – Well, it’s reasonable to suppose that you have a large garden then?

    Pat: – As it happens, yes I have got a big garden.

    Suit: – Well, then it’s logical to assume that, in this town, if you have a large garden then you have a large house?

    Pat: – As it happens I’ve got a five bedroom house ……. built it myself!

    Suit: – Well given that you’ve built a five bedroom house it’s logical to assume that you haven’t built it just for yourself and that you are quite probably married? And with a family?

    Pat: – Yes I am married, I live with my wife and four children.

    Suit: – Well, then it is logical to assume that you are sexually active with your wife on a regular basis?

    Pat: – Yep! Five times a week!

    Suit: – Well, then it is logical to suggest that you don’t masturbate very often?

    Pat: – Do what? Not me, mate!

    Suit: – Well, there you are! That’s logical science at work!

    Pat: – How’s that then?

    Suit: – Well from finding out that you had a goldfish, I’ve told you about your sex life!

    Pat: – I see! That’s pretty impressive.. Thanks mate!

    Both leave the toilet and Pat returns to his mate.

    Seamus: – I see the suit was in there. Did you ask him what he does?

    Pat: – Yep! He’s a logical scientist!

    Seamus: – What’s that then?

    Pat: – I’ll try and explain. Do you have a goldfish?

    Seamus: – Nope.

    Pat: – Well, then, you’re a wanker!!

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  98. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Time for bed – I’m starting to feel sorry for Reddy.

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  99. Viking2 (11,371 comments) says:

    A Glasgow policeman spots a huge black guy dancing on
    the roof of a Ford car. He radios for backup.

    “What’s the situation?”

    “A big fat darkie is dancing on a car roof.”

    You can’t say that over the radio,” replies the operator. “You
    have to use the politically correct terminology”

    OK” he says:

    “Zulu….Tango….Sierra”

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  100. Viking2 (11,371 comments) says:

    In a crowded city at a busy bus stop, a woman who was waiting for a bus was wearing a tight leather skirt. As the bus

    stopped and it was her turn to get on, she became aware that her skirt was too tight to allow her leg to come up to the height of the first step of the bus.

    Slightly embarrassed and with a quick smile to the bus driver, she reached behind her to unzip her skirt a little, thinking that this would give her enough slack to raise her leg.

    Again, she tried to make the step only to discover she still couldn’t.

    So, a little more embarrassed, she once again reached behind her to unzip her skirt a little more.

    For the second time, attempted the step, and, once again, much to her chagrin, she

    could not raise her leg.

    With little smile to the driver, she again reached behind to unzip a little more and again was unable to

    make the step.

    About this time, a large Texan who was standing behind her picked her up easily by the waist and

    placed her gently on the step of the bus.

    She went ballistic and turned to the would-be Samaritan and screeched, “How dare you touch my body!

    I don’t even know who you are!’

    The Texan smiled and drawled,

    “Well, ma’am, normally I would agree with you, but after you unzipped my fly three times, I kinda

    figured we was friends.”

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  101. Redbaiter (8,371 comments) says:

    “Red they are indeed the stats for your site.”

    So what?

    I don’t put much effort into the site.

    Why would I or anyone with a brain expect stellar ratings?

    That Nasska apparently thinks this is what should happen is just more evidence of what a lame old back country cussy fucking (male cuzzies that is) hillbilly he is.

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  102. Viking2 (11,371 comments) says:

    http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/6dbBfXCMbH4?rel=0

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  103. Redbaiter (8,371 comments) says:

    “and copied from this site”

    FFS.. you can find these jokes anywhere.

    That is all these pathetic lamers do.. seek them out on the net and then swamp General Debate with them.

    What for I wouldn’t have a clue.

    If anyone by chance was interested in debating anything they’d be totally discouraged by seeing this schoolboy level shit taking up so much of the thread.

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  104. Kea (12,100 comments) says:

    Red, lighten up. You can not knock other peoples attempts at injecting some levity into general debate, on the basis your too miserable to laugh and too lazy to scroll.

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  105. Redbaiter (8,371 comments) says:

    Levity is fine.

    Lame old jokes I have heard so many times before and I can read anytime I want elsewhere is just a complete misuse of GD.hey should take it to the Trade Me message boards or somewhere similar.

    In fact they should take all their comments there, they’re all so fucking boring.

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  106. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Viking2 @ 9.45

    It took a while in the telling but

    i did laugh out loud at that one.

    Hey Redbaiter, lighten up m8

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