General Debate 20 November 2012

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graham

So I expect to see long lines at the supermarkets today, stocking up on popcorn and beer for 4 pm …
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November 20, 2012 8:09am
joana

There is talk today of boating legislation..How can one protect stupid people from themselves?
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November 20, 2012 8:12am
Keeping Stock

David Shearer should ponder the late Sir Robert Muldoon’s words before he sends David Cunliffe to the back bench from whence he will be free to foment happy mischief. Muldoon was asked if he was going to be a thorn in Jim Bolger’s side. “Heh, no” he replied; “just a little prick.”. There is a message there for David Shearer.

http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/goodbye-david.html
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November 20, 2012 8:25am
Fletch

Allen West doing everything he can to get a recount after the election in St Lucie, Florida, after dodgy counting.

Congressman Allen West, an outspoken tea-party favorite whose district was pushed into largely new territory by redistricting, is claiming that massive voter irregularities are robbing him of his seat.

Democrat Patrick Murphy, who leads West by some 2,000 votes, is trying to stop a full recount of controversial early ballots cast in St. Lucie County. His current victory margin is just large enough to avoid triggering an automatic recall of all precincts and all votes.

Then there is Gertrude Walker, the 32-year-veteran election supervisor of St. Lucie County, who has spent much of the last two weeks explaining why her office completely botched the count. She admitted that her office had acted in “haste” in issuing election results, and that “mistakes were made.” Among her mistakes was failing to count 40 of the 94 precincts under her jurisdiction on Election Night — and then counting the other 54 twice. Indeed. On Friday, her office announced it had “discovered” 304 additional early votes left in a box. None had been counted.

But Walker wasn’t available for comment. She has been hospitalized for unknown reasons.

The news was one reason that Florida’s secretary of state has dispatched a team of experts to audit St. Lucie’s procedures. The St. Lucie Election Canvassing Board voted to approve a complete recount of all the early ballots. It began the recount on Saturday but stopped it at 8 p.m. because the county building’s security system was set to be switched on later that night. Some people complained that the alarms have been switched off in the past to allow county business to continue after hours, but their complaints were ignored. The recount resumed on Sunday morning, but it missed the noon deadline to submit the county’s final returns to Florida’s secretary of state.

So, on Sunday, the previous results—the ones showing Democrat Murphy ahead—were sent to Florida’s secretary of state for certification.

MORE
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November 20, 2012 8:28am
alex Masterley

Joanna,
Idiots making life difficult for the rest of us.
I hope the skipper gets charged under the Maritime Transport Act.
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November 20, 2012 8:46am
Elaycee

joana:

How can one protect stupid people from themselves?

In short, you can’t!

A whole lot of new Laws for boaties wouldn’t have prevented the most recent tragedy at the weekend. Sadly, 7 people went fishing ill equipped and ill prepared and two people paid the ultimate price.

The problem (from what I saw / heard from media reports) was that 7 men went out into the Hauraki Gulf in a 4.9 metre tinny in windy conditions / sloppy seas. The boat had little freeboard. Wind against tide so waves were hitting the transom whilst they fished. Someone went from the front of the boat to the stern and this shifted the CofG aft. At the same time, a wave came over the transom and the boat was swamped.

7 men on board. Not 7 life jackets though (even though that is already Law). No life jackets being worn either. It wouldn’t have mattered whether there was another 6 laws in place – unfortunately you cannot stop idiots from being idiots.

But 7 men in a 4.9 metre tinny was the first ingredient in the recipe for disaster. Then they went out fishing in poor weather and poor sea conditions. They didn’t have enough life jackets for all on board – and what they did have weren’t being worn anyway!

The outcome was sadly, predictable.
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November 20, 2012 8:49am
barry

Keeping Stock – Muldons more famous comment (well I assume it was his) was in response to some trouble maker.

“Better to have them inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in”
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November 20, 2012 8:59am
Nookin

It’s a really close call for Baldrick’s Turnip of the Week Award. NZ Cricket and the Labour Party are neck and neck.
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November 20, 2012 9:04am
Chuck Bird

This unbelievable how the person who reported this paedophile was vivified.

Probe into what teachers’ group knew about paedophile and damning email.

What a teachers’ union knew about paedophile James Parker in 1999 is being investigated, as is an email that is critical of the woman who raised the issue.

Parker, formerly deputy principal of Pamapuria School in Kaitaia, is facing 23 new charges of sexual offending against boys, in addition to the 49 charges he pleaded guilty to earlier this year.

Last week, Fiona Lovatt Davis, a former principal at Oturu School, which is also in the Far North, told Radio New Zealand she went to police in 1999 with concerns which arose when Parker’s then-girlfriend told her Parker would leave their bed to sleep with pupils staying at their home.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10848662
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November 20, 2012 9:08am
Pete George

Camp Cunliffe are now trying to claim Cunliffe did nothing wrong, although he obviously stoked the flames with his ambiguous answers to leadership questions.

But there’s soemthing else that seems to be forgotten. The Saturday before the conference ‘Eddie’ posted his ‘sack Shearer’ attack at The Standard.

Eddie is either a Cunliffe agenda promoter (as seems apparent) – or a devious ABC operator. Except if the latter is the case the overwhelmingly pro-Cunliffe Standard would surely have said something about this.

So it’s likely Cunliffe (or at least his promoters) played a major role in escalating the leadership debate.

http://yournz.org/2012/11/20/what-about-eddie/
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November 20, 2012 9:12am
Paulus

Love the Labour “Shit Fight” – will keep coming until February when a Unionist gets the top job – Cunliffe is a blind.
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November 20, 2012 9:15am
wreck1080

I’d always thought asian buyers only had a minor effect on the auckland housing market.

But, I think I’ve been totally wrong if the following NZH article is true…

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10848593

Ian Thornhill of Barfoot & Thompson said one wealthy Chinese buyer paid top dollar for a Market Rd, Epsom, house which had since stood empty for weeks as the deal was “just offloading some surplus funds”.

Thornhill said that type of activity was not unusual and he fears for the effects.
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November 20, 2012 9:17am
Pete George

You don’t need to save the popcorn until 4pm, just follow The Standard. The latest division: Shitting on the shoulders of giants.

The union faction are in full attack mode now.

For the past four years, Labour has been controlled by a clique of 3 has-beens and 2 beltway hacks: Goff, King, Mallard, Robertson, and Hipkins.

Notice by comparison the lack of vitriol and smears coming from David Cunliffe and his supporters. Cunliffe has faced this for more than a year but he’s chosen to remain above it all. He’s focused on doing his job and articulating a progressive economic vision for New Zealand. Perhaps his problem is he’s done his job too well.

So, remember, that isn’t about Cunliffe. It’s about the old guard clique trying to hold on even after the membership has told them that it is, in the words of one delegate, “taking the party back”. They want the membership as small and tame as possible, and they want any voice of the membership gone.

The innocence of David C. Yeah, right.
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November 20, 2012 9:21am
graham

Pete George at 9:12 am: What’s “ABC”?
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November 20, 2012 9:21am
Peter

Anyone But Cunliffe
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November 20, 2012 9:31am
hinamanu

Staten Island After Sandy

The Day After Obama’s Photo Op
Three weeks after the storm

Red Cross and government fraud abound

Brasscheck went down to Staten Island with a truck load of food and other supplies the day after Obama came by for his photo op.

I wish we had the time and resources to make a full movie about what’s going on there.

More info at: Help After Sandy. org

Here are some verbal observations:

These are random, somewhat stream of consciousness notes which will have to do for now…

It’s 21 days after the storm and there are still many thousands of people without power and heat. Food is scarce and for many every basic thing from soap to clean socks is in short supply.

How many people are in this predicament? No one knows because no one is counting. If someone has counted, they are not sharing the information with the news media and/or the news media is not reporting it.

How does a government operate a relief effort if 21 days out, it doesn’t know how many people are in need?

The answer is they don’t need to know because they are not operating a relief effort.

This was obvious from my two visits to the Rockaways and the full day I spent on Staten Island Friday, November 16th, the day after Obama’s photo op visit.

The amount of prevarication on the part of the American Red Cross, FEMA, Obama & New York politicians, especially Cuomo and Bloomberg, on how much they are helping citizens is mind boggling.

As just one example among many, Bloomberg claimed a few days ago that the city has set up “300 public warming stations.” I’ve been in over a dozen of the hardest hit neighborhoods in Queens and Staten Island and I’ve only see one and it was set up and is being operated not by any government agency or non-profit, but by a masonry contracting firm, Navillus, based in Manhattan.

The overwhelming portion of help is coming from neighborhood people, business owners, and small groups with a wide variety of political and religious orientations both from within and outside the city.

Were it not for this help, which in the aggregate is massive, many people would be starving at this point.

The government is denying its inability and/or unwillingness to help the victims of the storm and making blatantly fraudulent claims about what they’re doing to help as well as the desperateness of the situation.

The entire political class up and down the ladder is cooperating with the fraud.

One member, the Borough of Staten Island president, went “off the reservation” briefly to accurately complain about the inactivity of the American Red Cross, but he is now firmly in the political class camp going even so far as to threaten the street corner grassroots relief efforts with shutdown. Bloomberg is also making noises about doing this too.

Along with the government, the American Red Cross is also engaged in a massive fraud, staging photos ops, and then widely publicizing the pictures to give the impression that their efforts are meaningful (they are not, given their size and funding) in order to solicit donations.

Facts:

1. The American Red Cross has an open government contract in which they are reimbursed for 100% of all the expenses involved running specific relief operations. So every blanket, every crumb of food, every gallon of gas they’re burning will be paid for with your tax dollars.

2. The American Red Cross usually soaks up about 70% of all the money that people donate for high profile relief operations. That means that all the other groups, including many of which are doing truly heroic and much needed work, have to share the remaining 30% of the pie.

3. The American Red Cross reserves the right – and uses it every time – to spend money donated for a specific catastrophe in any way it chooses.

This means if you give the American Red Cross money to feed freezing, hungry people in the Rockaways right now, the American Red Cross is perfectly OK spending it on a weeklong management retreat in Maui for their executives. Just Google “Red Cross fraud corruption” and you’ll see that they’ve been caught doing these kinds of things – and much, much worse – many, many times over a very long period.

Obama’s visit to Staten Island yesterday was another example of a well-orchestated fraud.

One tiny slice of the devastated area was cleared for him as a backdrop. He posed there with some young people in blue windbreakers who are members of a phantom organization called “FEMA Corps”, hugged a woman for the cameras and was on his way back home.

The news media is cooperating with the party line and makes these frauds possible.

Reporters and cameramen see the devastation. They can see the scores of ad hoc volunteer relief stations desperately trying to keep up with a demand these small operations don’t have the resources to fill. However, instead of reporting on these efforts and encouraging the public to support them, all they do is recycle American Red Cross, FEMA and government baloney in essence stealing resources from them and the people who need them.

The word “vampires” comes to mind when watching how the news media, the American Red Cross, FEMA and the rest of the government are operating in this most desperate of situations.

There are hundreds of eye witnesses to this sham – police officers, National Guard troops, and people on the street. All anyone has to do is ask them what they’re seeing, but no one is asking and no one is reporting.

Summary

The situation in New York goes beyond gross incompetence.

What we have here are are small group of people who in order to maintain their positions are deliberately misleading the public as to the extent of the problem, what is needed, and how the public can help.

Instead of providing information and leadership to a population that is full of people who would gladly help if only they were directed how, they (the American Red Cross, FEMA, Obama, Cuomo, and Bloomberg) are fraudulently claiming that everything is under control and it’s all thanks to their good works. As if that weren’t bad enough, they’re actively diverting critical financial resources away from the groups that are doing the most good to one (the American Red Cross) that has proven again and again to be close to useless.

And like the thieves they are, they’re all backing up each other’s stories.

The needs continue to be great – maybe greater than ever – today 21 days after the storm.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/hurricane-sandy/staten-island-after-sandy.html
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November 20, 2012 9:32am
hinamanu

Jesse Ventura – The Official Facebook Page
For all of you who decided that any employee who stands up for their rights should just look for a better job. Let me ask you, have you looked around the country lately? This country is operating on a service based economy. The giant corporations have moved into most communities and forced privately owned business out of business through graft and spending. Just where is this employee supposed to get a new job that pays a living wage when all the jobs available to them are from the same group of corporations? Oh, I guess they should go to school and learn a trade that will not only put them into deep financial debt but the likelihood of that trade being around after they graduate is slim given the trends of outsourcing and automation. Not everyone gets the high paying six figure job with benefits however that doesn’t mean the low income worker should be treated like a second class citizen because they didn’t get the same breaks you did. The American dream does not exist. Corporate fascism killed it. The story of the kid who started out flipping burgers and is now a millionaire is a myth. The carrot that is dangled in front of everyone working a shitty job with no future. Welcome to the new corporate sponsored american dream: Indentured Servitude.
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November 20, 2012 10:19am
Weihana

Fletch (3,498) Says:
November 20th, 2012 at 8:28 am

Allen West doing everything he can to get a recount after the election in St Lucie, Florida, after dodgy counting.

Dodgy counting? That’s rich coming from the party that gerrymandered its way back into Congress.
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November 20, 2012 10:20am
Weihana

Elaycee (2,963) Says:
November 20th, 2012 at 8:49 am

joana:

How can one protect stupid people from themselves?

In short, you can’t!

Except if we’re talking about marijuana…
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November 20, 2012 10:28am
lastmanstanding

Chuck Bird Saw that piece on the peodo. Seems the teachers Unions have been up to the same tricks as the Catholics. Betcha there are other cases of peodos that the union have known about and said and done nothing. This is part of their modus operandi to protect useless and even criminal teachers no matter what.

IMHO POld should be getting in there and shaking down the union bosses and putting them under the hot lights to get them to confess who how when where.
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November 20, 2012 10:55am
Jack5

Will Bill English, our Reserve Bank, and our Treasury bureaucrats and those who suck up to them please explain the following. These folk repeatedly assert that it is impossible to rein in the soaring NZ dollar, so can they please explain how Switzerland seems to be succeeding.

The Wall Street Journal reports that Switzerland’s equivalent of NZ’s Reserve Bank, the privately owned Swiss National Bank, continued to accumulate foreign-exchange reserves in the third quarter as it intervened to hold down the Swiss franc’s value against the euro. It has delivered a year-to-date profit of 16.9 billion francs (US$18.1 billion). That is a part-year profit of NZ$22.2 billion according to the BNZ online converter.
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November 20, 2012 10:59am
graham

hinamanu:

Just where is this employee supposed to get a new job that pays a living wage when all the jobs available to them are from the same group of corporations? Oh, I guess they should go to school and learn a trade that will not only put them into deep financial debt but the likelihood of that trade being around after they graduate is slim given the trends of outsourcing and automation.

There are many ways of learning a new trade that don’t have to involve a huge debt. Here’s one example: I work in the IT field, specifically networking. The vast majority of my learning is done from books. There are many books that cost well under $100, especially if you buy them second-hand off Amazon. So you buy some books, supplement the book-learning by research on the Internet, use an emulator or invest in some cheap networking equipment off Trademe. Total cost could quite possibly be under $600 if you buy wisely. This gets you some learning, knowledge and (with the 2nd hand networking equipment) hands-on experience. Sure, it requires a bit more motivation and hard work than just plonking down a wad of cash and sitting down in a class and having it handed to you on a plate, but it’s a realistic option.

Then you go look for an entry-level job on a helpdesk in a largish corporation, where there are opportunities to move up the ladder to new positions. And yes, such jobs do exist – I know this for a fact.
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November 20, 2012 11:03am
Lance

@graham
You are right. Hinamanu is talking unmotivated drivel.
I attained all my qualifications while being employed. You just had to show your employer you were worth it.
I interview youngsters for technical roles these days and despair or their sense of entitlement when they are not actually that useful. People wanting to design electronic products and when I ask them if they build there own projects at home, or intend to do so the reply is almost always no. It’s just a job, could be accounting or car sales.
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November 20, 2012 11:21am
hinamanu

“There are many books that cost well under $100,”

Absolutely, done it myself achieved a degree. Also signed a screenplay contract for my novel.

Have seen my own friends and colleagues get ahead simply by reading

No argument .

You guys also have to find out what fractional reserve banking and high speed algorithmic trading means to economies along with global corporate monopolies. I’m not making any drivel up. People are approaching me on the st telling me everything i been saying to them has come true.
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November 20, 2012 11:30am
Elaycee

Weihana:

How can one protect stupid people from themselves?
In short, you can’t!
Except if we’re talking about marijuana…

Especially when stupid people indulge in illegal substances and then run bleating like a stuck pig when they’re caught and convicted.

Self inflicted. Zero sympathy. Get over it.
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November 20, 2012 11:42am
graham

But hinamanu, you were talking about “Indentured Servitude” as you call it. Your post was essentially claiming that employees cannot “stand up for their rights” and look for a better job because it costs too much to upskill or retrain. And if they go down that road, they’re forever beholden to the Man.

I am simply making the point that it doesn’t have to be that way.

I have to admit, I’m not too sure where you’re now heading with your latest buzzwords, but I look forward to you revisiting your original point.
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November 20, 2012 11:45am
hinamanu

CNBC Admits We’re All Slaves To ROTHSCHILD CENTRAL BANKERS GLOBAL GOVERNMENT

Published on Jun 23, 2012 by TNSONSOFLIBERTY

4 sec: “Do we all work for Central Bankers? Is this Global Governance at last? Is it One World.. with the Central Bankers in charge?”

1 min: “To answer your question: We are absolutely slave to Central Banks”

1 min 16sec: “Markets are driven by policy now, they’re not driven by market forces”

1 min 26 sec: “Fiat currency thats continually watered down.. so the markets go up and we feel good about it”

2min 25 sec: “We are basically beholden to Central Bankers”

2min 30sec: “..admits (Federal Reserve) are debasing currency and borrowing our way to false prosperity”

2min 48sec: “Every Central Bank in the world has to devalue their currency”

3min 28sec: “Free markets will fight back and ultimately they’ll win”

http://jhaines6.wordpress.com/2012/06/25/cnbc-admits-were-all-slaves-to-rothschild-central-bankers-global-government/
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November 20, 2012 11:45am
Weihana

Elaycee (2,964) Says:
November 20th, 2012 at 11:42 am

Weihana:

How can one protect stupid people from themselves?
In short, you can’t!
Except if we’re talking about marijuana…

Especially when stupid people indulge in illegal substances and then run bleating like a stuck pig when they’re caught and convicted.

Self inflicted. Zero sympathy. Get over it.

So why not create more laws to catch and convict more people who put themselves at risk on boats? It may not solve anything but if they get caught and convicted it’s self-inflicted, zero sympathy, get over it.

As for potheads, they can simply move to the United States. 🙂
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November 20, 2012 11:56am
graham

hinamanu:

Re your post at 11:45. O-kaaay … now please explain how that means that employees cannot stand up for their rights and look for a better job because it costs too much to upskill or retrain.
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November 20, 2012 12:25pm
hinamanu

@ Graham…. Hamilton City Council imported imported Asian workers instead of hiring local labour…… Burger King imported hundreds of Asian managers ignoring hundreds of graduates who could have done the work.

I’m sure that would fit with your q
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November 20, 2012 12:28pm
hinamanu

2013: The ‘Great Realignment’

In today’s video, Topher Morrison of AMTV explains the ‘Great Realignment’ coming in 2013 and what this means for humanity.
http://www.AMTVMedia.com/

Being held hostage to central bank dogma

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3iXCxUFzHs
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November 20, 2012 12:29pm
Elaycee

Weihana… for someone who professes to be a student, you’re not exactly showing any signs of improvement courtesy of our education system, are you?

Boating is legal. But some people put themselves at risk. Same as swimming at the river. Also legal, but some people put themselves at risk. Most people accept the consequences of their own actions. Those who can’t are usually the most vocal about the ‘unfairness of the system’ because they cannot continue their antisocial behaviour or continue with their illegal activities without risking a conviction. Unlucky.

But you cannot legislate for people being morons – otherwise your own use of the laptop would be limited to the hours your cell block warden decided you could use it… 😀
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November 20, 2012 12:31pm
liarbors a joke

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7971108/Wilsons-bill-209-000-since-release

Should of just shot the scumbag.
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November 20, 2012 12:34pm
hinamanu

@liarbors a joke

Certainly a case for bringing back the death penalty. should save a lot of kids lives.

But… on eye witness testimony only !
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November 20, 2012 12:42pm
graham

hinamanu at 12:28 pm:

No, it really doesn’t fit in with my question at all!

I asked you to explain how a conspiracy theory that “we’re all slaves to Central Bankers” means that employees cannot stand up for their rights and look for a better job because it costs too much to upskill or retrain.

You respond with a couple of anecdotes (which I don’t know if they are true or not, please provide links) that Hamilton City Council and Burger King imported Asian workers ignoring hundreds of graduates who could have done the work. I’m sorry, what, they contacted an overseas recruitment agency? Did they literally import Asian workers by the crateful? Are these Central Bankers in the human slave labour/trafficking business? Provide links, please.

And maybe you misunderstood my original point, because my definition of “upskilling” yourself doesn’t culminate in the giddy heights of landing a job at BK. Even if you do get called a “manager”.
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November 20, 2012 12:58pm
Weihana

Elaycee,

Boating is legal.

So make it illegal for recreation and impose heavy punishments for those who don’t comply. Safety first!

Most people accept the consequences of their own actions. Those who can’t are usually the most vocal about the ‘unfairness of the system’ because they cannot continue their antisocial behaviour or continue with their illegal activities without risking a conviction. Unlucky.

Oh I agree, and if you don’t wear a life jacket then lets say… 3 months in jail? It’ll be the consequences of your own actions.

But you cannot legislate for people being morons

Sure you can, you just don’t want to in this case. You obviously don’t care if people die from not wearing life jackets. 🙂
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November 20, 2012 1:14pm
hinamanu

@ Graham

I responded to your q about upskilling with those anecdotes about how monopolies are not going to spend on hiring or upgrading available labour.

I saw the BK story in Waikato Times. They claimed no one was ready enough to take on managerial roles.
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November 20, 2012 1:14pm
graham

1. Obviously the companies ARE hiring, by your own admission. Your complaint is that they’re hiring from overseas – supposedly.
2. Burger King isn’t a monopoly.
3. An “upgrade” from a burger flipper to a Burger King “manager” isn’t an upgrade.
4. NZ companies DO spend money upgrading staff, the company I work for has forked out thousands of dollars on training for me and other employees.
5. Why do you automatically assume that the companies should spend money upgrading their existing staff? I personally invest my OWN money and my OWN time to upskill myself, and in return my salary gets spgraded quite nicely thank you very much.
6. You’re really struggling to try and get away from your original assertion – that employees cannot stand up for their rights and look for a better job because it costs too much to upskill or retrain.
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November 20, 2012 1:29pm
Elaycee

Weihana (1.14pm):

I suspect this ‘effort’ doubles as your most recent application for lifetime membership of the Morons Club.

Best keep an eye on your letterbox for your letter of acceptance.
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November 20, 2012 1:40pm
Reid

Are these Central Bankers in the human slave labour/trafficking business? Provide links, please.

Just google “money masters” graham. That’s probably the clearest but it’s real long, best leave it for a rainy weekend, if you’re interested in this.

But here’s a 5 min overview of the issue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlODOk_iyXg&feature=player_embedded

Here’s a very detailed 2 hour long view, which explains it in great detail, highly recommended if you want to understand how it works
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XcGh1Dex4Yo

And here’s a very good doco on what Blair did when he was first elected, to bring about the GFC in the UK:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5aeonyTh4k&feature=relmfu
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November 20, 2012 1:42pm
Griff

Pot is illegal
Why is pot illegal?
Because its harmful
Why is it harmful?
Because you get arrested
Why do you get arrested?
Because
.
.
.
.
Pot is illegal

😆

As too boating you are trying to get me to wear a life jacket whilst I relax at home
piss off …..Some nannys would like us all locked into totally safe padded rooms
The idiots swamping the overloaded boat thing will still happen.
I have seen it done by retards.One Goober I know has done it twice 🙄 You can not legislate in common sense.
Darwin is for that
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November 20, 2012 1:43pm
hinamanu

Dr. Michael Coffman, pioneer in exposing Agenda 21, will break down the enemy battle plan and how we can strike back with knowledge by knowing our enemy and waking up to just how hard-core our straights are.
http://www.epi-us.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhkrm_6BrWQ
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November 20, 2012 1:44pm
Paulus

Jack5 – re your Switzerland comment

Having worked for the Swiss you have to understand their mentality when it comes to other people’s money.
For generations they have been the receptacle of considerably sums of “black” money, identified by means of a reference numbers only, generally known to the “owner” and the bank.
When that person dies, or incarcerated, or shot, the ownership reverts quietly to the hidden bankers, and has done for over a 100 years.
Where do the likes of Arafat and Mugabe go with their billions?
Zimbabwe have just foud a new diamond field, bigger than Kimberly, and Mugabe has publically thanked the Zimbabweans for the gift of the mine that they have given him.
To put money into a secret account an “interest” rate is CHARGED to keep quiet.
These funds are available to any Swiss business at a riduculously low, or non existant rate, which enables the Nestles of this world to but whoever they want – if Fonterra was available I know where my money would go.
It is not generally known out the Swiss have a very high social class system, primarily base upon old money, combined with their military rank, as all males, in a male dominated society, are in the army.
Young male staff, who worked for me at a time ago, would tell me when they achieved a commission, as they were made in Switzerland. It was time for a real celebration, and the swiss girls knew it, as the power developed.
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November 20, 2012 1:46pm
Weihana

Elaycee (2,967) Says:
November 20th, 2012 at 1:40 pm

Weihana (1.14pm):

I suspect this ‘effort’ doubles as your most recent application for lifetime membership of the Morons Club.

Best keep an eye on your letterbox for your letter of acceptance.

oh snap!
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November 20, 2012 2:02pm
graham

hinamanu, and now Reid – FFS, stop over-analysing everything. hinamanu, go back to YOUR ORIGINAL ASSERTION – that employees cannot stand up for their rights and look for a better job because it costs too much to upskill or retrain.

THAT is what I called bullshit on, and THAT is what you are failing to justify.
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November 20, 2012 2:29pm
Monique Watson

Well, it won’t be long now till the political blood is spilt.
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November 20, 2012 2:40pm
hinamanu

@ Graham

Jobs are scarce and more are disappearing. I did state in a further post and agreed that reading is important to upskill and going onto study.

My original post was speaking on the American experience as the states have become subservient to the multi-nationals.

But why should employers pay for upskilling when they have hundreds of thousands unemployed to choose from and many graduates among them
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November 20, 2012 2:52pm
publicwatchdog

Seen this Kiwibloggers?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2012/11/14/new-zealand-tops-list-of-the-best-countries-for-business/

(My comment- yet to be published.)

“OPEN LETTER SENT TO TRANSPARENCY INTERNATIONAL BY NEW ZEALAND ‘ANTI-CORRUPTION’ CAMPAIGNER /’WHISTLEBLOWER’ Penny Bright:

31 October 2012

For the URGENT attention of Transparency International Secretariat, and global member ‘chapters’.

I, Penny Bright, from New Zealand, was an attendee at the Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference 2010, in Bangkok, and widely distributed a ‘whistle-blowing’ NZ ‘Corruption Reality Checklist’ – which showed the lack of transparency and accountability in New Zealand, which is consistently ‘perceived’ to be ‘the least corrupt country in the world’ (according to the TI ‘Corruption Perception Index’).

In my considered opinion, if Transparency International is going to ignore the FACTS and EVIDENCE presented by ‘whistleblowers’ such as myself – then your ‘Corruption Perception Index’ is going to be seen as being effectively meaningless as a global indicator of global corruption.

(This ‘whistle-blowing’ NZ ‘Corruption Reality Checklist’ has since ‘morphed’ into the following:)

ACTION PLAN TO PREVENT CORRUPTION – ‘WHITE COLLAR’ CRIME & ‘CORPORATE WELFARE’ IN NZ:

1. Get our anti-corruption domestic legislative framework in place so NZ can ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption.

2. Set up an NZ independent anti-corruption body tasked with educating the public and PREVENTING corruption.

3. Change NZ laws to ensure genuine transparency in the funding of candidates for elected public office and political parties at central and local government level.

4. Legislate for an enforceable ‘Code of Conduct’ for NZ Members of Parliament (who make the rules foreveryone else).

5. Make it an offence under the Local Government Act 2002 for NZ Local Government elected representatives to breach their ‘Code of Conduct’.

6. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Government elected representatives.

7. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Central Government staff responsible for property and procurement, (including the Ministry of Health), in order to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

8. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available ‘Register of Interests’ for NZ Local Government staff, and Directors and staff employed by ‘Council-Controlled Organisations (CCOs) responsible for property and procurement.

9. Make it a lawful requirement for details of ‘contracts issued’ – including the name of the contractor; scope, term and value of the contract to be published in NZ Central Government Public Sector, and Local Government (Council), and ‘Council-Controlled Organisation (CCO) Annual Reports so that they are available for public scrutiny.

10. Make it a lawful requirement that a ‘cost-benefit analysis’ of NZ Central Government, and Local Government public finances be undertaken to prove that private procurement of public services previously provided ‘in-house’ is cost-effective for the public majority. If not – then return public service provision to staff directly employed ‘in-house’ and cut out these private contractors who are effectively dependent on ‘corporate welfare’.

11. Legislate for a legally-enforcable ‘Code of Conduct’ for members of the NZ Judiciary, to ensure they are not ‘above the law’.

12. Ensure that ALL NZ Court proceedings are recorded, and audio records made available to parties who request them.

13. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ Judicial ‘Register of Interests’, to help prevent ‘conflicts of interest’.

14. Make it a lawful requirement for a publicly-available NZ ‘Register of Lobbyists’ and ‘Code of Conduct for Lobbyists’ at Central Government Ministerial level.

15. Make it a lawful requirement at NZ Central and Local Government level for a ‘post-separation employment quarantine’ period from the time officials leave the public service to take up a similar role in the private sector. (Help stop the ‘revolving door’).

16. Make it a lawful requirement that it is only a binding vote of the public majority that can determine whether public assets held at NZ Central or Local Government level are sold; or long-term leased via Public-Private –Partnerships (PPPs).

17. Make it unlawful for politicians to knowingly misrepresent their policies prior to election at central or local government level.

18. Make laws to protect individuals, NGOs and community-based organisations who are ‘whistleblowing’ against ‘conflicts of interest’ and corrupt practices at central and local government level and within the judiciary.

19. Legislate to help stop ‘State Capture’, a form of ‘grand corruption’ arguably endemic in NZ – where vested interests get their way at the ‘policy level’ before legislation is passed which serves their interests.

Prepared by Penny Bright, ‘Anti-corruption’ and ‘Anti-privatisation’ campaigner waterpressure@gmail.com)
_______________________________________________________________

CORRUPTION AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF THE AUCKLAND $UPERCITY:

http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/SiteCollectionDocuments/aboutcouncil/governingbody/governingbodymin20121025.pdf

7.1 Penny Bright – Open letter to Auditor General

Ms Bright was present to address the meeting regarding her open letter to the
Auditor-General on conflicts of interest.

_______________________________________________________________

This presentation was filmed, and can be viewed, (after registering – costs nothing to register) at http://www.allaboutauckland.com/
“CORRUPTION AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS” 25 October 2012: ”
_______________________________________________________________

Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
(New Zealand)
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November 20, 2012 3:43pm
hinamanu

Retired FBI agent Ted Gunderson tells all – 1/8

Retired FBI division field chief Ted Gunderson exposes the lies that run rampant throughout the U.S. JFK’S death, 9/11, Ruby Ridge, Waco, pedophiles in power, and satanic occult.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBHbJzproj0&feature=related
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November 20, 2012 3:45pm
Elaycee

Penny Not-So:

(My comment- yet to be published.)

And it’s highly likely it’ll never see the light of day, either…. 😀

PS: Penny – is the rumour true you were once outed by one time author (and subsequent MP) Ross Meurant, as announcing yourself to a gathering as a member of the Workers Communist League?
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November 20, 2012 3:53pm
wat dabney

20. Make it a lawful requirement that menopausal women displaying the mental age of a 12 year old can’t spam the Internet with their infantile lists.
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November 20, 2012 4:13pm
Rex Widerstrom

Chuck Bird says:

This unbelievable how the person who reported this paedophile was vivified.

Heck, killing them and bringing them back to life is a bit OTT.

😀
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November 20, 2012 4:21pm
chiz

PETA to protest at Hobbit premieres over alleged animal deaths during filming.
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November 20, 2012 4:50pm
Longknives

Who the hell paid for Penny to go to Bangkok? I hope it wasn’t me and my taxpayer dollar…
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November 20, 2012 4:57pm
liarbors a joke

This Israel-Hamas thing goin on…cant get my head around it. Seems to me the arabs are in the wrong. Do they really expect the other lot to sit back and do nothing while they hurl missles?…then they have the cheek to moan and groan when the other lot fire back ! Fucktards.
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November 20, 2012 5:41pm
publicwatchdog

Seen this Kiwibloggers?

🙂

“NZ Herald – News digest Tuesday 20 November 2012

Banks faces more counts

Act leader John Banks is facing two fresh charges in a private prosecution brought by political activist Graham McCready. The charges relate to Mr Banks’ role at investment company Huljich Wealth Management before he became an Act MP. ”

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Graham McCready states that the Wellington Deputy Registrar ‘confirmed she would set them down for Banks to be Summons to appear on these two with the Local Elections Act charge on 11 December 2012 at 1:45.

The Court will ensure the Police serve all three summonses.’

So!

The arguably ‘Not-so Honorable’ John Banks will appear in the Wellington District Court, on Tuesday 11 December 2012, to face private prosecutions over alleged electoral fraud and ‘Mr Banks’ role at investment company Huljich Wealth Management before he became an Act MP’.

Bit of a sad day for the ‘perceived’ least corrupt country in the world, when individual citizens have to take private prosecutions in order to help ensure ‘ONE LAW FOR ALL’ actually does apply equally in New Zealand?

Where were the regulatory and statutory bodies when it came to applying ‘ONE LAW FOR ALL’ to fellow former Directors of Huljich Wealth Management(NZ) Ltd – current and former leaders of the ACT Party – John Banks and Don Brash?

Penny Bright
‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com
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November 20, 2012 5:47pm
Monique Watson

Re Cunliffe. Told-ya. Housewives know everything. Don’t need an encyclopedia wit’ us
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November 20, 2012 5:49pm
Nookin

“Where were the regulatory and statutory bodies when it came to applying ‘ONE LAW FOR ALL’ to fellow former Directors of Huljich Wealth Management(NZ) Ltd – current and former leaders of the ACT Party – John Banks and Don Brash”

At a guess, I would suggest they they were making an objective assessment of the relevant facts and applying the law to those facts and were concluding that the prospects of a successful prosecution were particularly remote. One of the things that they no doubt did was read the entire section of the legislation rather than dishonestly portray the offence as a strict liability offence which only involves proof of an incorrect statement regardless of the state of mind of the signatory. They probably took into account that the erroneous information was in fact an omission rather than an incorrect statement, was known only to Huljich and was not disclosed to any other person including Banks & Brash.

The authorities probably took the view that “one Law for all” means just that. It does not involve applying carefully selected parts of a section that imposes sanctions to different people according to one’s own bigoted, blind and irrational prejudices. The law does not work that way as Mr McCready will find out in short order.
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November 20, 2012 5:59pm
Reid

This Israel-Hamas thing goin on…cant get my head around it. Seems to me the arabs are in the wrong. Do they really expect the other lot to sit back and do nothing while they hurl missles?…then they have the cheek to moan and groan when the other lot fire back ! Fucktards.

It’s about the elections laj.

Nothing else. It’s been about the elections since 1959.

BTW, Shearer said to the press after the caucus meeting he was “determined” to see the House Lotto scheme implemented. He doesn’t know this is a millstone, but it will be.
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November 20, 2012 6:16pm
liarbors a joke

ah..politicians involved Reid..now why does that not surprise me.
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November 20, 2012 6:19pm
liarbors a joke

..and Key must be chuckling to himself just quietly…Liarbor ripping itself apart at home while he just gets on with business overseas alongside Obama..truly looking like a man in control.
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November 20, 2012 6:22pm
kowtow

TVNZ1 news and BBC repeater Fergal Keane on Obummer’s visit to Burma. Neither mentioned (of course) that the Great Orator couldn’t pronounce his guest’ s name properly. Kept calling her Aung “Yang” Suu Kyi.

Not the end of the world,but whenever Bush did something similar it was made into world news. Same with Romney and that European visit. The MSM only want to smear the right and elevate their commie friends.
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November 20, 2012 6:32pm
mikenmild

Does Obama have some commie friends? Is Aung San a commie? Or was it the commies in Beijing that indirectly kept her locked up for so many years with their cosy support for the Burmese regime?
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November 20, 2012 6:44pm
Fletch

kowtow, he got the president’s name wrong as well.

As Obama stood next to the world’s most recognized democracy icon, he mispronounced her name repeatedly.

Ever gracious, Suu Kyi did not correct her American guest for calling her Aung YAN Suu Kyi multiple times during his statement to reporters after their meeting.

Proper pronunciation for the Nobel laureate’s name is Ahng Sahn Soo Chee.

The meeting came after Obama met with Myanmar’s reformist new President Thein Sein – a name he also botched.

As the two addressed the media, Obama called his counterpart “President Sein,” an awkward, slightly affectionate reference that would make most Burmese cringe.

Note to presidential advisers: For future rounds of diplomacy, the president of Myanmar is President Thein Sein – on first and second reference.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/AS_OBAMA_STOPPING_TRAFFIC?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-11-19-07-18-16
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November 20, 2012 7:10pm
mikenmild

Only Obama could commit such egregious diplomatic gaffes. He must be determined to undermine America.
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November 20, 2012 7:22pm
chiz

mm – the mispronounciation is all part of a plot to distract the media attention away from Benghazi.
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November 20, 2012 7:27pm
mikenmild

I don’t even know how to say Benghazi. It is near the shores of Tripoli though, isn’t it?
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November 20, 2012 7:29pm
RF

Well after seeing Labour self destruct what else is there to talk about. I guess the Greens are the new opposition party. Yawn!!!
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November 20, 2012 7:35pm
nasska

And in my new spirit of inclusiveness, something for God’s little helpers.
Ref: http://imgur.com/gallery/yABya
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November 20, 2012 7:35pm
bc

Campbell Live is continuing to do great investigative work about the Novopay fiasco.
It turns out they were supposed to take over in 2010.
Two years later and questions were starting to be asked why things weren’t underway. A Ministry of Education spokesperson is quoted earlier in the year, as saying the delay was due to Novopay doing testing of the new payroll system.
Of course we know know that NO testing occured.

Meanwhile, another pay round and there is still problems, with serious concerns about Novopay managing the upcoming end of year payroll.
Full credit to the teachers who haven’t been paid at all after two months or are being unpaid, still turning up to their jobs, doing the best for the kids and being utterly professional. Others would have just walked off the job.
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November 20, 2012 8:00pm
nasska

Maxine took her car to her mechanic. She told him
“Every time I take any of my friends out in my car, after
a while there is this terrible smell !! . It never happens
when I am on my own.”

This quite intrigued the mechanic so he said, “OK, lets
go for a spin and see what the problem is”.

Off they went. She drove down a one-way street in the wrong
direction at 100 KPH, swerving, hitting the kerb on both
sides of the street, narrowly missed three pedestrians on
pedestrian crossings, ran several red lights, and just missed
a policeman on street traffic duty. They returned to the workshop
and she said, There it is now; there’s that terrible stink.
Can you smell it?”

“Smell it? Hell lady, I’m sitting in it”.
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November 20, 2012 8:01pm
nasska

Com’on BC….where would they go? Who else would employ them? 🙂
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November 20, 2012 8:03pm
Pauleastbay

New blonde teacher is assigned to playground duty. She notices a boy standing alone while all the other children are running around playing. Feeling sorry for him she walks over and asks if he is ok. “Yes” he replies. “You can go and play with the others you know” she tells him. “Best I stay here” he says, to which she asks “why?”
“Because I’m the fucking goal keeper!”
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November 20, 2012 8:04pm
Steve (North Shore)

@bc – novopay
The word I hear is that some teachers have been overpayed quite a lot, and just happy.
I have no proof, but the grapevine is humming
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November 20, 2012 8:05pm
Pauleastbay

A young man at this construction site was bragging that he could outdo anyone based on his strength. He especially made fun of one of the older workman. After several minutes, the older worker had enough.

“Why don’t you put your money where you mouth is?” he said. “I’ll bet a week’s wages that I can haul something in a wheelbarrow over to the other building that you won’t be able to wheel back.”

“You’re on, old man,” the young man replied. “Let’s see what you’ve got.”

The old man reached out and grabbed the wheelbarrow by the handles. Then nodding to the young man, he said with a smile, “All right. Get in.”
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November 20, 2012 8:11pm
nasska

Many years ago a man was travelling through the mountains of Switzerland. Nightfall was rapidly approaching and he had nowhere to sleep. He went up to a farmhouse and asked the farmer if he could spend the night. The farmer told him that he could sleep in the barn.

As the story goes, the farmer’s daughter asked her father, “Who is that man going into the barn?” “That fellow is travelling through,” said the farmer. “Needs a place to stay for the night, so, I told him he could sleep in the barn”.

The daughter said, “Perhaps he is hungry”. So she prepared him a plate of food for him and then took it out to the barn. About an hour later, the daughter returned. Her clothing dishevelled and straw in her hair.

Straight up to bed she went. The farmer’s wife was very observant. She then suggested that perhaps the man was thirsty. So she fetched a bottle of wine, took it out to the barn, and she too did not return for an hour. Her clothing was askew, her blouse buttoned incorrectly. She also headed straight to bed.

The next morning at sunrise the man in the barn got up and continued on his journey, waving to the farmer as he left. When the daughter awoke and learned that the visitor was gone, she broke into tears. “How could he leave without even saying goodbye,” she cried. “We made such passionate love last night!”

“What?” shouted the father as he angrily ran out of the house looking for the man, who by now was halfway up the mountain. The farmer screamed up at him “I’m going to get you! You had sex with my daughter!” The man looked back down from the mountainside, cupped his hand next to his mouth, and yelled out… “LAIDTHEOLADEETOO!”
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November 20, 2012 8:13pm
Steve (North Shore)

Lone Ranger and Tonto walked into a saloon and sat down to drink a Beer.

After a few minutes, a big tall cowboy walked in and said “Who Owns the
big white horse outside?”

The Lone Ranger stood up, hitched his gun belt, and said, “I
do….Why?”

The cowboy looked at the Lone Ranger and said, “I just thought
you’d like to know that your horse is about dead outside!”

The Lone Ranger and Tonto rushed outside and sure enough Silver was ready
to die from heat exhaustion. The Lone Ranger got the horse water and soon
Silver was starting to feel a little better.

The Lone Ranger turned to Tonto and said, “Tonto, I want you to
run around Silver and see if you can create enough of a breeze to make him
start to feel better.” Tonto said, “Sure, Kemosabe” and took off running
circles around Silver.

Not able to do anything else but wait, the Lone Ranger returned to
the saloon to finish his drink. A few minutes later, another cowboy
struts into the bar and asks, “Who owns that big white horse outside?”

The Lone Ranger stands again, and claims, “I do, what’s wrong with him
this time?” The cowboy looks him in the eye and says,

(…I JUST LOVE THIS PART…)

(…This is Really pretty good…)

“Nothing, but you left your injun runnin”.
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November 20, 2012 8:15pm
Kevin

Here’s a good taxpayer funded book for you kiwi bloggers. This will really help the violent culture in NZ…enjoy.

Masculine Empire

http://www.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/news/template/news_item.jsp?cid=530691

Some nuggets from the review…

a deeply-engrained belief in male superiority can drive a perception of male entitlement to power in the home: “It flips explanations for violence from what is happening in the minds of individual ‘bad’ men to a broader exploration of the social world and of ways in which men approach intimate relationships, and how male friendships help them maintain positions of power.”

Translation: “we are none of us innocent”, an age old Strategy to try to criminalise the innocent so the guilty can be excused.

The other unusual feature is the focus on colonisation as a way of understanding violence. Says Dr Adams: “At an academic level I have set out to show how the oppressive dominance that men impose on women in violent and abusive relationships can be seen as paralleling the strategies used by one people in their colonisation of another… Indeed the alienation, loss of ownership and disempowerment experienced by those living in such colonies resembles in many ways the violations that women experience in oppressive intimacies.”

The worn out colonisation meme…the root of all evil of course!

I need a good laugh but I can’t bring myself to pay money for it.
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November 20, 2012 8:18pm
Pauleastbay

1. It’s important to have a woman, who helps at home, who cooks from time to time, cleans up and has a job.
2. It’s important to have a woman, who can make you laugh.
3. It’s important to have a woman, who you can trust and who doesn’t lie to you.
4. It’s important to have a woman, who is good in bed and who likes to be with you.
5. It’s very, very important that these four women do not know each other
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November 20, 2012 8:21pm
bc

I haven’t read about any overpaid situations Steve, but it wouldn’t suprise me. After all being overpaid is just as much a stuff up as being underpaid. It is still a hassle to the person being affected, because overpayments have to be paid back, you can’t just pocket it!!

Looking at the Campbell item again and it is actually worse then what I initially took in first time watching it. Novopay were in discussions with the Government in 2005 and they were given the contract in 2008 (to start in 2010).
It was Novopay that said (in a Computaworld magazine) earlier this year, that they were two years behind because they were testing. An outright lie.
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November 20, 2012 8:21pm
nasska

An Irishman went into a post office to see if there were any letters for him. “I’ll see, sir,” said the clerk. “What is your name?” “You’re having me on now because I’m Irish,” said the Irishman. “Won’t you see the name on the envelope?”
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November 20, 2012 8:25pm
Kea

Kevin, I had a good laugh at your link, women are “in line” in NZ, was especially good.

It is amazing the amount of anti male hatred the NZ tax payer sponsors. It is little wonder kiwi women are miserable emotional cripples.
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November 20, 2012 8:27pm
Viking2

ONE OF THE BEST JOKES TO COME ALONG (AND IT’S NOT EVEN POLITICAL)!!!

As Air Force One arrives at Heathrow Airport , President Obama
strides to a warm and dignified reception from the Queen.

They are driven in a 1934 Bentley to the edge of central London ,
where they change to a magnificent 17th century carriage hitched to six
white horses. They continue on towards Buckingham Palace , waving to
the thousands of cheering Britons; all is going well.

Suddenly the right rear horse lets fly with the most horrendous earth
shattering fart ever heard in the British Empire .

The smell is atrocious and both passengers in the carriage must use
handkerchiefs over their noses. The fart shakes the coach, but the two
dignitaries of State do their best to ignore the incident.

The Queen turns to President Obama, ” Mr. President, please accept my
regrets. I am sure you understand there are some things that even a
Queen cannot control.”

Obama, always trying to be “Presidential,” replied: “Your Majesty, do
not give the matter another thought…until you mentioned it, I thought
it was one of the horses.”
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November 20, 2012 8:30pm
Pauleastbay

I was listening to the radio this morning when the Host invited callers to reveal the nicknames they had for their wives:
Best call was from the brave chap who called his wife “Harvey Norman” explaining … “Absolutely no interest for 36 months”
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November 20, 2012 8:30pm
Steve (North Shore)

best you stop watching the live campbell bc. he is a cock
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November 20, 2012 8:30pm
Viking2

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

It is time to take the US oil and gas boom and especially the shale gas “revolution” seriously. It is hard to say how much it will boost US economic growth because of a range of unknowns, but it has the potential to have a significant impact. The US government will be a significant beneficiary via increased oil and gas royalties. It should contribute to energy self-sufficiently for the US. The dramatically lower gas prices are boosting international competitiveness for a number of US industries (e.g. chemicals, plastics, aluminium, iron and steel, rubber, coated metals, and glass).

Slashing US imports of petroleum products and boosting US economic growth is stage one. Gas prices outside the US haven’t fallen in response to the dramatic tumble in US natural gas prices. US gas prices are now so far below international prices there is a strong incentive for US producers to export. This should depress global gas prices and undermine to some extent the competitive advantage currently available to US related industries. BHP has a stake in the US shale gas market and is considering exporting US liquefied natural gas to Asia. In addition to undermining the competitive advantage currently available to the relevant US industries, exporting US gas (and coal) could be a death blow for some of the planned gas developments in Australia and elsewhere. There will no doubt be other implications.

Info about shale gas in the US was presented in a March Raving that in the first instance showed where NZ had got to in becoming self-sufficient in energy (see http://www.sra.co.nz/pdf/OilandGasMar12.pdf).

Info about shale gas in the US was presented in a March Raving that in the first instance showed where NZ had got to in becoming self-sufficient in energy (see http://www.sra.co.nz/pdf/OilandGasMar12.pd
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November 20, 2012 8:32pm
bereal

It was interesting to note the other night, when discussing crimes that might warrant a
sentence of, ‘Life without the possibility of parole.’

that Pauleastbay, who i understand is an ex cop referred to the case of Stephen Ralph Stone as one who
should never be released.

Stone is a double murderer. He also killed an old lady in a motor accident in a seperate incident and has
been eligible for parole since 2011 after serving 10 years and, it seems, will be from every year from now on.

This is so sick.

Some interesting points from this case.

One victim, Leah Stevens body was found.
Another victims body (Dean Fuller-Sandys ) body has never been found.
Mark Hendricksen knows where Deans body was dumped.
So does Stone.
So does Carl Johnson.
So does an excreable piece of shit called Greg Polley.
Colin Maney may know.

Det Snr Sgt Mark Franklin (a hero) who led the investigation that resulted in both the conviction of Stone
and the whore, Gail Maney, the slut that insigated two murders has since come a gutser
for drug matters after retiring to the Cook Islands.

During Maneys trial, DSIR scientist Susan Vintner, who examined the crime scene @ 22 Larnock Ave Auck
where Sandys was shot several times in the garage, when asked if she found blood evidence said an
incredible statement, ” I could not exclude the possibility that there was blood.”
That was not challenged by Maneys lawyer Peter Kaye.

FFS ‘I could not exclude the possibility that there was blood.”
Think about that statement from a Crown expert witness witness.

Maney, the whore that caused both these murders, served 10 years and is now free, probably working
for WINZ, counselling somone you know with a qualification she gained while in the boob.

Stephen Stone is a psycopath killer, but eventually the parole board will take into account evidence given
at his trial that he really was just a Mummys boy who was devastated by his mothers death due to cancer in 1990

Gail Maney may be your neighbour now, Stone is comming out soon.
Polley was granted imunity, he never was convicted of any thing.\
Carl Johnson was almost given an award fot testifying.

Question is there any crime that can be committed in New Zealand that deserves a sentence of Life without Parole ?
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November 20, 2012 8:34pm
mikenmild

As I understand it, there are a number of evil people in jail now who will never be released.
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November 20, 2012 8:43pm
Pauleastbay

Leah Stevens was murdered because she was a witness to Sands getting killed

Susan Vinter is an exlempary scientist. Her examination of the scene was several years after the fact , it may have been more.

She would never come and say what she thought, her role is facts, what she can prove catargorically.

When you are dealing with scum sucking bottom dwellers , you sometimes need their help, thats why people involved are used as witnesses, thats just a fact of life.

As for Stone, there probably are scary people out there but he’s the worst I’ve ever worked on, absolutely ruthless, it wasn’t even business, it was because he could.
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November 20, 2012 8:48pm
nasska

Bereal

I don’t have a link or reference but I remember reading an article in which a lawyer was being quoted on the public perception that penalties for violent crimes were far too low. He was asked how if say the maximum for rape was twenty years how the normal sentence was 4 – 7 years.

His answer was along the lines of that the judges believed that the maximum sentence could only be imposed for the worst possible case. Since the judges considered that the worst rape had not yet been committed they would never impose the maximum sentence.

Possibly we’ll see the benchmark sentences for serious crimes track upwards but no judge is ever going to impose the highest possible sentence.
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November 20, 2012 8:49pm
Pauleastbay

Nasska

Thats a major cop out not being able to use the maximum because it is very rare that someone is charges with just one offence.

Stone is a good example, he was convicted of the two homocides ( Fuller-Sands and Stephens), thats two life sentences.

He was also convicted of raping Stephens prior to killing her, he was given ten years for that so what should be happening is:

He does a tenner for the rape.
He then does a 15 for the first homocide.
He then does a 15 for the second homocide.
So, thats forty.

After forty years he can make his first visit to the Parole fools, but not until then.

Concurrent sentencing is what makes stats look good but they are perverse. Sentencing should be cumulative,
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November 20, 2012 8:58pm
Reid

Leah Stevens was murdered because she was a witness to Sands getting killed

There was a media story during the case that she was ‘delivered’ to the murderer as payment for a drug deal gone wrong. Nothing about witnessing a murder.

Was that wrong?

Sentencing should be cumulative,

In most case I agree.
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November 20, 2012 9:05pm
Pauleastbay

Sands was delivered because of drugs I believes, theres a not a bad write up about it here http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3979427/Stone-cold-hitman
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November 20, 2012 9:09pm
nasska

Concurrent sentencing is an absolutely ridiculous concept Paul especially for serious crime. The people who make the laws have been sucked into the “give the poor crim hope” crap but effectively they promote a “do one, get two free” mentality.

I don’t think that the man on the street has bought into the meme to the same extent.
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November 20, 2012 9:10pm
bereal

Pauleastbay
No problem with your descripition of Stone
One of my points is, how sick that this psyco will now come up for parole every year from now on.

Surely this is one case for, ‘Never to be released.” But, another point,

Regarding Ms Vintner.

An expert witness is expected to give unbiased evidence, right ?

Regardless of the time she examined the garage, (and you are wrong with your timing)

Consider.

Q. Did you examine the garage and did you find evidence of blood ?

A. Yes, and I could not exclude the possibility there was blood.

How can that answer not be considered biased ?

Dear Susan, exemplary scientist.
Using the same criteria, examine this piece of carpet that i am standing on.
Can you exclude the possibility that there is blood on it ?
Are you the first person ever who can prove a negatve.

Face it Pauleastbay, Susan pushed it too far and got away with it with the help of Peter Kaye.
Pete played the game, as they do.
It was not a pivitol point of Maneys trial but it was instructive of how it is often a game.
That exchange reflectitly badly on both Vintner and Kaye.

Thats my point about that.

Surely Paulestbay, you are smart enough to see my point.
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November 20, 2012 9:11pm
Reid

Thanks Paul, I was relating what you were saying above to a different case: Marie Jamieson.
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November 20, 2012 9:21pm
bereal

Naaska @ 8.49

O.K. But what i am trying to get to is this.

Is there ANY crime that the people of New Zealand, in their collective wisdom would
warrant the sentence of Life without Parole.

We have already seen in the Bell case, you can murder three people in cold blood and get
30 odd years ( and possibility of parole long before 30 years)

What would you consider a crime that warranted the sentence of LWOP ?

Is there such a crime ?
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November 20, 2012 9:31pm
Pauleastbay

Bell’s doing 30 non parole and then has to appear, he does 30 before he gets a visit We have LWOP now , its called Preventive Detention

The only means to impose such indefinite protective confinement is at the sentencing stage through the imposition of preventive detention. This sentence keeps running even if the person is released on parole, and recall proceedings can be instituted if the person’s behaviour gives cause for concern

http://www.justice.govt.nz/publications/global-publications/s/sentencing-policy-and-guidance-a-discussion-paper/7.-sentencing-dangerous-offenders
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November 20, 2012 9:37pm
mikenmild

Some people obviously should never be released. To me, though, life without possibility of parole is too close to a death sentence. Quite possibly some people deserve death, or life without parole, but I’d be reluctant to define a crime that qualified an offender for either automatically.
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November 20, 2012 9:38pm
nasska

bereal

I have no problem with a sentence of LWOP particularly when the crimes involved kids or in the case of premeditated murder. To this end I’d rather like to know more of the USA scale of three degrees of murder.

So definitely yes….you’ve got me on board but good luck with the parliamentarians & the judiciary.
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November 20, 2012 9:39pm

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