General Debate 21 November 2012

November 21st, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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105 Responses to “General Debate 21 November 2012”

  1. mikenmild (10,630 comments) says:

    Shit – time to get to work.

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  2. Longknives (4,411 comments) says:

    Hilarious!
    Peta are going to protest at The Hobbit opening. Don’t you love it when lefties turn on their own-This will be far more interesting than suffering through three hours of Hobbits staring longingly into each others eyes…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/7972485/Animal-welfare-protesters-target-Hobbit

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  3. kowtow (7,590 comments) says:

    milky is a civil servant ,so he’s not getting to work,he’s reporting to the place at which he draws a salary. (and spends so much of our time on the internet,defending leftists)

    Meanwhile on planet Earth,justice Palestine style. By he way if any of those animals on the motorbikes were killed by Isreli fire they’d count as “civilians”.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2235635/Gaza-conflict-Egyptian-president-says-peace-Gaza-imminent-predicts-lasting-ceasefire-begin-tomorrow.html#

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  4. Lance (2,442 comments) says:

    Peta look like a nutjobs nutjob.
    No facts, no investigation just mindless ranting.

    Sounds like the Greens

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  5. Longknives (4,411 comments) says:

    Lance- Indeed they are. But Peter Jackson is a leftie nutjob also, so grab some popcorn and enjoy the show!
    (Anything would be better than his last few movies!)

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  6. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    mikenmild (5,635) Says:
    November 21st, 2012 at 8:03 am

    Shit – time to get to work.
    ——————————-
    What WORK would that be then.
    Filling in your day at KB.

    Clearly an oxymoron! :lol:

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  7. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    everything has its time, apparently.

    Pink shirts are now all the vogue.

    ” While some of the leaders looked resplendent in traditional Cambodian silk shirts, John Key looked, well, a little gay, in hot pink silk with bulging shoulder pads.

    Mr Key described it later as “fetching”. And he said others had thought so too.”

    So its confirmed then. National is pink.

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  8. kowtow (7,590 comments) says:

    Peta.

    Pen and Teller in their series Bullshit do a wonderful job on Peta. I believe it’s on you tube. Worth a look.

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  9. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    We used to lock nutjobs up in concrete building with no doors.

    Surely there is rational in doing so again?

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  10. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Prime Minister John Key said late last night that contractors who worked on Kim Dotcom’s Coatesville mansion sought Mr Key’s personal support in 2011 for an application to the Overseas Investment Office to buy the mansion.

    Mr Key believes that is probably behind Mr Dotcom’s accusations that Mr Key is lying when he says the first he knew of him was on January 19 this year.

    So, key is finally, finally starting to admit stuff.

    Still more excuses though.
    Its not credible that a very wealthy person whose was generous with his money intended moving into his electorate and Key Didn’t want to, think to or arrange some knowledge so the Nats or key could tap him on the shoulder for cash.

    I’ve got two bridges to sell.

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  11. Colville (2,065 comments) says:

    Peter “I hate unions” Jackson is a lefty nutjob?

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  12. bhudson (4,734 comments) says:

    V2,

    Disliking the truth won’t change it

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  13. Griff (6,709 comments) says:

    V2 watch this
    peta is mildly disturbing :grin:
    Joanna Krupa Bares Almost All for Animals
    http://www.peta.org/tv/videos/celebrities-skins/1924982565001.aspx

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  14. Longknives (4,411 comments) says:

    Peter ‘I will bring that convicted child murderer to New Zealand because those nasty Americans are mean to him’ Jackson is a lefty nutjob.

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  15. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    bhudson (2,711) Says:
    November 21st, 2012 at 8:31 am

    V2,

    Disliking the truth won’t change it
    —————————————–
    UMM,

    Like 50 shades of grey.
    Which one is grey?

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  16. Chi Hsu (82 comments) says:

    Longknives (1,784) Says:
    November 21st, 2012 at 8:09 am

    Hilarious!
    Peta are going to protest at The Hobbit opening. Don’t you love it when lefties turn on their own-This will be far more interesting than suffering through three hours of Hobbits staring longingly into each others eyes…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/7972485/Animal-welfare-protesters-target-Hobbit

    It’s hardly constructive to group all those who support animal rights and all those who enjoy New Zealand movies to be Left-Wing. That sort of condescending attitude certainly isn’t going to win anyone over to the Right.

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  17. Scott Chris (5,872 comments) says:

    BREAKING NEWS : TV STATIONS DUE TO VOLUNTARILY TURN DOWN SHOUTING ADS :!:

    BUT WAIT, THERE’S MORE.

    TVNZ ARE GONNA START THIS WEEKEND.

    WITH A GUARANTEE OF 100% INTEREST FREE VIEWING.

    WATCH NOW YOU FUCKING ZOMBIES!!!

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  18. Longknives (4,411 comments) says:

    I strongly support Animal Rights Chi Hsu (If you had been around Kiwiblog you would have known I am an animal lover and I am passionate about animal welfare)- I just don’t support groups like PETA and Sea Shepherd, because it isn’t really about the animals now is it?

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  19. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Say Chi Hsu, Longknives has a good point.

    His preferred animal support groups are commonly known as abbatoirs.

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  20. Grendel (950 comments) says:

    Have fun at work milky, and remember i have 2 sugars in my coffee.

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  21. Longknives (4,411 comments) says:

    You don’t have to be a pot smoking, smelly, dreadlocked vegan to be an animal rights supporter. Unfortunately this is exactly the sort of ‘rent a mob’ professional protester that will be banging pots and waving placards at the Hobbit premiere…

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  22. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    kowtow 8:09 – I feel sick. How can anyone have so much blood lust?

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  23. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    And who’s going down with Cunliffe? My predictions:

    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/11/i-said-it-theres-gunna-be-reshuffling.html

    Ross Robertson for next Labour speaker.

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  24. Carlos (686 comments) says:

    This is absolutely disgusting in the UK. Watch the video at the bottom. What do you think this guy’s reasoning could be? If he’s caught how long do you think he’ll get?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2235811/CCTV-girl-16-punched-ground-random-attack.html?ICO=most_read_module

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  25. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Chi said…
    support animal rights

    Do animals have rights? If so, rights to what? If I throw you into the lion cage at the Zoo, are you going to stand there and negotiate with lions there telling them that they shouldn’t touch you because you have rights? How about the lions ignore your plea and they attack you (since in their primitive reflexive minds they definitely have rights to eat you alive). What you gonna do Chi? Animal don’t have rights. Humans have rights. The owners of the animals have rights. Once you arbitrarily assign rights to animals, then surely animals have rights to own humans. This means that some lions or tigers can register with the government that it owns a human call Chi.

    Can you argue philosophically of why you think animals have rights? Where does this animal rights begin or stop? Does a mouse have rights? If so, a right to what?

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  26. Longknives (4,411 comments) says:

    Carlos- What a disgusting fucking lowlife! That video is shocking..

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  27. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    So for those Israel parrotters here, like Kowtow, above, I think we can all agree that the West Bank does not fire projectiles into Israel, so it is a natural experiment that can act as a control for how Israel enacts it policies of occupation (please don’t bore me with the mantra that Gaza is not under occupation – the UN, ICJ and any and all international human rights organisations unanimously disagree).

    So I will post a few reports of what are daily occurrence in the West Bank and compare these events with the mantra that “It’s all about the rockets!”

    Now the point to these posts will be to pose the question: If, as will become obvious, it’s not the rockets, what is it about?

    Serious replies welcome, but not expected.

    Report briefs from just two days in the life of the occupied West Bank (no rockets, remember?) follow:

    1. NAD-PLO 18 Nov — Partial summary: Raids: 24; 1 in Jerusalem,3 in Ramallah,1 in Jenin,1 in Tubas, 1 in Tulkarem,2 in Qalqiliya, 9 in Nablus, 2 in Salfit, 3 in Jericho and 1 in Hebron; Detention: 18; 5 in Jerusalem, 1 in Jenin 1 in Tubas,6 in Nablus, 2 in Bethlehem and 3 in Hebron including 3 children, a female resident and 2 Security officer

    2. RAMALLAH (Ma‘an) 19 Nov 13:15 — A 28-year-old Palestinian man died on Monday after he was wounded in clashes with Israeli forces at a protest in the West Bank. Rushdi Mahmoud Hassan al-Tamimi was hit by live fire in the stomach and thigh during a Gaza solidarity demonstration in Nabi Saleh, near Ramallah, on Saturday, the village’s popular committee said. Al-Tamimi was taken to the Palestine medical complex in Ramallah with internal bleeding. A doctor in the hospital confirmed he had died on Monday evening. The committee said al-Tamimi was left on the ground after he was shot at close range, and Israeli forces threatened citizens who tried to administer first aid. Al-Tamimi was a Palestinian police officer. [YouTube video in case the one in the article doesn't load]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4L3oaYtyLs&feature=player_embedded

    The video will show wild-eyes Israeli goons dressed as soldiers fatally shooting a Palestinian demonstrator who was one of a group throwing stones at the occupying forces. Points to note are that resistance to occupation is legal and can be considered a duty of the occupied; that while a response to resistance is also legal it must be proportional – live rounds in response to stones can hardly be considered proportional, but just look at the behaviour of those IDF personnel and one could be forgiven for wondering what they are on.

    3. HEBRON (Ma‘an) 19 Nov 22:26 — A 22-year-old man was shot dead by Israeli soldiers in the West Bank city of Hebron on Monday, the second Palestinian casualty of West Bank protests in support of Gaza. Hamdi Mohammad Jawwad Al-Falah, 22, from Hebron was shot four times during clashes in the Bir al-Mahjar neighborhood in western Hebron. Medics said he had two bullets in the chest, one of which penetrated the heart, a third in the face and another in the knee. He was handed to the Palestinian Red Crescent after 15 minutes, they said.

    Another fatality, and, as is common practice, the Israeli soldiers waited until the victim was well and truly dead before handing over the body.

    4. HEBRON (Ma‘an) 19 Nov 23:29 — Four more Palestinians were critically wounded by Israeli fire at West Bank protests on Monday afternoon, hours after two Palestinians died from wounds as widespread rallies were held in support of Gaza. Wasim Nidal Al-Saed, 21, from Hebron was shot with live bullets in his back and foot during clashes near Bab Al-Zawiye in central Hebron. Government hospital spokesman Basel al-Natsheh told Ma‘an that doctors in the hospital carried out an operation to save Al-Saed’s life. In Halhul, near Hebron, a Palestinian policeman was hit in the head with a tear gas canister fired by Israeli forces. Ahmad Khalid Issa Ismael, 21, was hit with a bullet in the head and transferred for an emergency operation after clashes in Bethlehem. Omar Jameel Hassan Al-Froukh, 22, was also hit by live fire during a protest in Sa‘ir, east of Hebron. Bullets penetrated his pelvis and he fell into a coma, medics said.
    Earlier, 35 people were injured after Israeli forces fired rubber bullets and tear gas at a demonstration by Atara checkpoint. Four were seriously wounded … In Qalqiliya, 10 protesters, including a Red Crescent volunteer, were injured in clashes with Israeli forces at a checkpoint in the south of the city. Six of the injuries were reported as critical and four people were arrested. As Israel bombs the Gaza Strip for the sixth day, solidarity protests have seen an uptick in violence.

    More live fire into unarmed demonstrators.

    5. NABLUS (Ma‘an) 19 Nov — Clashes between Israeli forces and Palestinians continued late into Sunday night amid anger in the West Bank over Israel’s bombardment of the Gaza Strip. Over 50 people were injured on Sunday at protests in Hebron, Ramallah, Qalandia, Bethlehem and East Jerusalem …
    Locals reported clashes with settlers in villages across Nablus, including Burin, Burqa, Furik and Urif.

    All clashes in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. All victims the occupied.

    6. RAMALLAH 19 Nov (WAFA) – A total of 120 Palestinians were arrested for participating in protests in solidarity with the people of Gaza since the beginning of the war on the Strip, said a report by the Ministry of Prisoners’ Affairs. The report said that most of the participants in the protests were minors. They were heavily beaten up by Israeli soldiers and detained in detention centers… One of the protesters, who were detained at Huwara checkpoint, said that he was heavily beaten at his genitals. Sa’adeh said that prisoner Ayah Hujer from Nablus was arrested at Huwara checkpoint, beaten up at Ariel detention center and was later transferred to HaSharon women prison.

    7. RAMALLAH (Ma‘an) 19 Nov — Israeli settlers set fire to a Palestinian’s car and spray-painted racist slogans in Ramallah village Sinjil early Monday, in the second settler attack overnight in the West Bank. Locals told Ma‘an a huge explosion woke them at 3 a.m. and they discovered the car had been torched…

    Settler terrorism.

    8. JORDAN VALLEY 18 Nov (WAFA) – Jewish settlers Sunday kidnapped a Palestinian shepherd, according to local sources. he said settlers kidnapped a Palestinian shepherd while he was grazing his flock near the settlement of Maskiot, build illegally on the Jordan valley land. The Israeli soldiers took the shepherd from the settlers and arrested him.

    More settler terrorism with the victim further victimised by the occupying forces in clear breach of their obligations under international law.

    9. A note on Gaza:

    Legacy of Cast Lead — More than 15,000 Gazans remain displaced as a result of Israeli military operations in Gaza, including Operation Cast Lead in 2008-9, and the creation of a so-called buffer zone along the border over the last decade. According to a collection of aid agencies in Gaza, known as the Shelter Sector, more than 4,000 of the current displaced have been displaced three times or more since 2009 because of continued conflict and an inability to rebuild their homes. Israel and Egypt have imposed a blockade on Gaza since 2007, restricting the entry of goods, including steel and cement.

    More than one million of Gaza’s population are refugees or descendant of refugees from Jewish attacks beginning as early as 1913 and still ongoing today.

    http://www.theheadlines.org/12/19-11-12.shtml

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  28. Longknives (4,411 comments) says:

    “Does a mouse have rights? If so, a right to what?”

    The obvious answer is cheese.

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  29. Scott Chris (5,872 comments) says:

    Animal don’t have rights. Humans have rights.

    I disagree. If we can arbitrarily confer human rights to humans, then we can do the same for animals. Just another societal construct really.

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  30. Scott Chris (5,872 comments) says:

    Another argument states that humanity is merely a classification of animal status which isn’t attributed exclusively to homo sapiens.

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  31. graham (2,214 comments) says:

    I would have thought it fairly obvious that you can assign different levels of rights to animals. Just because you state a position that animals have rights a, b, and c, doesn’t mean you automatically confer on them every single right that a human being has.

    I am by no means an animal activist, but I would say that any animal has the right not to be tormented by humans. Does anybody hear a story about some of the cruel torture inflicted on pets by young hoodlums and think, “Tough, animals have no rights so who cares?”

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  32. Griff (6,709 comments) says:

    Homo sapiens are primates of the family Hominidae, and the only living species of the genus Homo.] They originated in Africa, where they reached anatomical modernity about 200,000 years ago and began to exhibit full behavioral modernity around 50,000 years ago.

    As a fully sapient member of this species. I claim the right of the apex predator on this planet ..
    To feast, in the full glory of my roll in nature.
    On my prey.
    Treating it no better or worse than other species treat food :grin:
    NomNomNom food

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  33. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    krazykiwi (8,433) Says:
    November 21st, 2012 at 9:39 am

    kowtow 8:09 – I feel sick. How can anyone have so much blood lust?

    How about incinerated babies, KK?

    http://www.democracynow.org/2012/11/19/palestinian_civilians_bear_the_brunt_of

    Or women and children…

    http://972mag.com/photos-deadliest-day-yet-in-gaza/60288/

    And how a message of peace from an Israeli is responded to by her fellow Israelis…

    http://972mag.com/israeli-supermodel-bar-refaeli-bashed-for-not-being-pro-israel-enough/60473/

    And I wonder how you would react if you were subject to brutal occupation since the day you were born? Is this any different to how we behave in war?

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  34. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @Griff

    Few other animal species exhibit our particular talent for extended and egregious torture, my cat’s delight in keeping birds and lizards alive for her playful pleasure notwithstanding!

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  35. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    “This is absolutely disgusting in the UK. ”

    You gota wonder about some people. Why would you do something like that? He must be mentally unstable. He needs to be caught and executed.

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  36. Carlos (686 comments) says:

    @ Longknives @ liarbors a joke

    If he’s a first generation immigrant, he needs to be stripped of his citizenship. That would send a good message.

    If he’s just a lowlife scum Brit who bashes women, then he needs to be jailed for a minimum of 10 years with hard labour. However, that would never happen.

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  37. RightNow (6,647 comments) says:

    Lol, popped in for a look at GD and see Luc is in full propaganda mode.
    Lovely day in Welly today, but I’m painfully aware that we’re now in the cooling mode of a 60 year cycle. Must remember to eat more beans to help the world.

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  38. Chi Hsu (82 comments) says:

    Falafulu Fisi (2,066) Says:
    November 21st, 2012 at 9:59 am

    Do animals have rights? If so, rights to what? If I throw you into the lion cage at the Zoo, are you going to stand there and negotiate with lions there telling them that they shouldn’t touch you because you have rights? How about the lions ignore your plea and they attack you (since in their primitive reflexive minds they definitely have rights to eat you alive). What you gonna do Chi? Animal don’t have rights. Humans have rights. The owners of the animals have rights. Once you arbitrarily assign rights to animals, then surely animals have rights to own humans. This means that some lions or tigers can register with the government that it owns a human call Chi.

    Can you argue philosophically of why you think animals have rights? Where does this animal rights begin or stop? Does a mouse have rights? If so, a right to what?

    It would be better if the lion was not caged in the first place. The ideal situation would be if humans intruded as little as practicable into the territories of other animals when expanding. Given that lions are not native to New Zealand, we are going out of our way to deliberately breach their rights by capturing them from Africa and importing them into our country. Ideally, humans should not have the right to ‘own’ other animals and vice versa. Of course there will be competing interests due to limited spacing and resources on Earth but the less we can infringe on one another’s rights the better.

    Here is an extract which explains it better than I can:

    The Six Principles of the Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights:

    1. The abolitionist approach to animal rights maintains that all sentient beings, humans or nonhumans, have one right: the basic right not to be treated as the property of others.

    2. Our recognition of the one basic right means that we must abolish, and not merely regulate, institutionalized animal exploitation—because it assumes that animals are the property of humans.

    3. Just as we reject racism, sexism, ageism, and heterosexism, we reject speciesism. The species of a sentient being is no more reason to deny the protection of this basic right than race, sex, age, or sexual orientation is a reason to deny membership in the human moral community to other humans.

    4. We recognize that we will not abolish overnight the property status of nonhumans, but we will support only those campaigns and positions that explicitly promote the abolitionist agenda. We will not support positions that call for supposedly “improved” regulation of animal exploitation. We reject any campaign that promotes sexism, racism, heterosexism or other forms of discrimination against humans.

    5. We recognize that the most important step that any of us can take toward abolition is to adopt the vegan lifestyle and to educate others about veganism. Veganism is the principle of abolition applied to one’s personal life and the consumption of any meat, fowl, fish, or dairy product, or the wearing or use of animal products, is inconsistent with the abolitionist perspective.

    6. We recognize the principle of nonviolence as the guiding principle of the animal rights movement. Violence is the problem; it is not any part of the solution.

    - Gary Francione: The Abolitionist Approach to Animal Rights.

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  39. David Garrett (6,343 comments) says:

    Veganism = stark raving madness…eating cheese is “exploitative” FFS…

    Crikey, why I am bothering? Sun Tsu or whoever he is is clearly beyond reason…Are we on GD?

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  40. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    I bet its the mothers boyfriend…a case of SOCK…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7977808/Man-arrested-in-relation-to-Timaru-abduction-case

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  41. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Blah Blah….I still want to eat them…

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  42. Scott Chris (5,872 comments) says:

    As a fully sapient member of this species. I claim the right of the apex predator on this planet ..

    According to which premise? (note: “because I can” is not a premise)

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  43. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Falafulu Fisi,

    If I throw you into the lion cage at the Zoo, are you going to stand there and negotiate with lions there telling them that they shouldn’t touch you because you have rights?

    I can’t negotiate with a 1 year old either. Do 1 year old’s lack rights?

    Once you arbitrarily assign rights to animals, then surely animals have rights to own humans.

    That doesn’t follow. First, if animals are considered to have rights that does not imply that they must have all the rights of adult humans just as children are not assigned all the rights of adults yet they do have some rights. Secondly, even humans do not have the right to own other humans so why would animals acquire that right?

    Can you argue philosophically of why you think animals have rights? Where does this animal rights begin or stop? Does a mouse have rights? If so, a right to what?

    The same reason everyone has “rights”. They are societal constructs designed to effect a common purpose. They are objectively true or valid insofar as those rights do, in fact, advance the underlying values for which they are instituted.

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  44. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Do 1 year old’s lack rights?

    Yes. They have restricted rights.

    If we consider that animals have similar rights, to humans, then it follows that animals have the same obligations. A predator would be charged with murder.

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  45. dime (9,392 comments) says:

    Auckland 19 Nov Dime couldnt care less how many arabs get smoked by Israel

    Auckland 21 Nov No change in Dimes outlook

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  46. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Scott Chris (4,620) Says:
    November 21st, 2012 at 11:25 am

    As a fully sapient member of this species. I claim the right of the apex predator on this planet ..

    According to which premise? (note: “because I can” is not a premise)

    With the desire and ability to be one I see no other justification necessary. “Because we can” is precisely the reason humans subjugate all other species to our own ends. The premise of every “right” is simply its ability to effect a moral purpose, that purpose being determined by our own subjective values. The objective test of these moral pronouncements is therefore simply to assess whether “because I can” is a true statement. In this case I suspect not because other members of the species will prevent Griff from doing so, or at least limit his ability to use animals as he pleases.

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  47. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Kea (891) Says:
    November 21st, 2012 at 11:33 am

    Do 1 year old’s lack rights?

    Yes. They have restricted rights.

    But they do have some rights.

    If we consider that animals have similar rights, to humans, then it follows that animals have the same obligations. A predator would be charged with murder.

    I wasn’t aware people were suggesting that they have “similar” rights. Certainly a 5 year old human doesn’t have similar rights to an adult much less an animal. The notion is simply that they should have some rights. These rights, of course, derive from our empathetic nature and the concept that animals feel pain as we do even if on an inferior cognitive level. That they have a right not to be tortured or mistreated does not necessarily imply a right not to be eaten by humans, or owned as property etc. Depends on one’s definition of torture and mistreatment I suppose.

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  48. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Weihana, Make no mistake, I am strongly against the mistreatment of animals. It is something that upsets me greatly.

    However, you are imposing human values on animals and your thinking has no relationship to how nature operates. By human standards, nature is very cruel. Suffering is not a factor, only survival. Animals can, and do, kill for pleasure and will torture/play with prey for amusment. Cats and Orca are two classic examples. It is common with predators.

    Humans are not like animals, they ARE animals. That is the point many people miss. We are not the cumulation of anything.

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  49. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    A new British-based Islamist group plans to meet in Islamabad to issue a religious decree against a Pakistani schoolgirl shot by the Taliban, accusing her of supporting “occupying” US forces.

    Them crazy British a ?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/7977890/British-Islamists-to-issue-fatwa-against-shot-girl/

    They have “nukes” too !

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  50. Pete George (22,774 comments) says:

    A ‘let’s pretend nothing happened and ignore the irony’ tweet:

    New Zealand Labour ‏@nzlabour

    “There is a better way: there is a Labour way!” – Labour Leader @DavidShearerMP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NL27YoBLzes

    The current way is not something to be skiting about. The text accompanying the video:

    “I’m asking you – to rise up. To take a message of hope to New Zealanders. To fight for our future. To say loud and clear: there is a better way. There is a Labour way!”

    I guess where there’s a willy there’s a way /

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  51. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Kea (893) Says:
    November 21st, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Weihana, Make no mistake, I am strongly against the mistreatment of animals. It is something that upsets me greatly.

    However, you are imposing human values on animals…

    Sort of… really I’m imposing human values on other humans in how they deal with animals.

    …and your thinking has no relationship to how nature operates. By human standards, nature is very cruel. Suffering is not a factor, only survival. Animals can, and do, kill for pleasure and will torture/play with prey for amusment. Cats and Orca are two classic examples. It is common with predators.

    Humans are not like animals, they ARE animals. That is the point many people miss. We are not the cumulation of anything.

    I agree with all of that. But when people talk of animal rights I think they assume something greater than it is. For me animal rights simply refers to the rules of human behaviour in how we deal with animals. It’s comparable to children in that children have limited rights and when we talk of their rights we are not usually talking of obligations imposed on them but more on the adults that govern their lives.

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  52. Griff (6,709 comments) says:

    Why do guys go out hunting
    Hard wired that we prefer to hunt.
    Why do woman enjoy a natter . gather carbs and rabbit food,weaving, childcare, curing skins Are all processes done in groups were social interaction was an advantage.
    Hunting is predisposed to roaming around trying to kill something and some men enjoy that obviously
    Just like the cat does
    Does that mean you should pull the wings of flys or keep a pet past the point where you do so for your own attachment to the animal. No.
    Does that mean some men are justified in hunting marlin Yes to pit the very skills that make us apex predators against another apex predator.Because they are human.

    And as for the anti fur nutters
    We have got 60,000,000 Aussie tree fuckers killing our bush Help keep in nZ green kill a possum today

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  53. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Sort of… really I’m imposing human values on other humans in how they deal with animals.

    Great answer and I tend to agree with what your saying.

    I am a hunter and have killed many animals, but I genuinely care for them. It is something only another hunter is likely to understand.

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  54. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Talking if rights, it seem’s that John keys favourite film company has been helping it self to rights it doesn’t own via LOR etc.

    Being sued for $98 mill by the Tolken Estate.

    Tolkien estate launches new Rings lawsuit
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/culture/7978420/Tolkien-estate-launches-new-Rings-lawsuit

    Just continues their abuse of the people they rip off.

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  55. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    “More than 1,000 new coal plants planned worldwide”

    …with about three-quarters in China and India.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/nov/20/coal-plants-world-resources-institute

    Great news for the World’s poorest people. In fact, this is possibly the best news you will read all year.

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  56. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    That is good news wat. It also means we liberate all that co2 back into the atmosphere, which is where it came from in the first place. Scientists call it the the “carbon cycle”. Its just like planting a tree, when it dies and breaks down, all that co2 returns. Which is good, because other plants need that co2 for survival.

    Nature is great :)

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  57. minto57 (197 comments) says:

    Nothing like summary execution as a demonstration of justice (cuts out the arrests and the paperwork))

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  58. Pete George (22,774 comments) says:

    Talking of CO2 emissions, it’s being reported that Tongariro is erupting.

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  59. Pete George (22,774 comments) says:

    Link to Tongariro pic, doesn’t look like a major –
    http://info.geonet.org.nz/display/volc/2012/11/21/Tongariro+erupts+again

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  60. Griff (6,709 comments) says:

    Here for the science data :grin:
    http://www.geonet.org.nz/volcano/info/tongariro

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  61. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Thanks Griff, but I am pretty much up with it all. Every single bit of co2, released by coal and oil, came from the atmosphere (during a time of enormous fecundity & diversity of life). Every single tree you plant will rot down and release all that wonderful life giving co2 back into the atmosphere. :)

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  62. Griff (6,709 comments) says:

    Before I clutter up general debate yet again
    Sorry to all you lurkers and debaters on here
    I find it very difficult to ignore such blatant trolling from the echo chamber.
    Single Minded minded devotion to an ideal. the ability to recognise patterns. A different way of basing my world view. A strung sense of morals even if not the Norm. and an above average IQ make me think at times I come from the wrong planet. :lol:

    To point out your oily smear on climate science
    Only needs a quick exploration of your stupidity
    The co2 content in the carbon cycle has been constant since at least as long as we originated in Africa,
    Into this carbon cycle we have realised co2 that has been trapped for millions of years. From back in time when the climate of the earth was far different.This will have far reaching consequence for humanity

    If we Mankind continue to do this we must be aware of the consequence.

    Propaganda from the hydro carbon industry’s holding us back from the recognition of this fact.

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  63. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    A people of sheep will get a govt of wolves

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  64. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    A strung sense of morals even if not the Norm. and an above average IQ make me think at times I come from the wrong planet.

    You forgot modesty Griff.

    The co2 content in the carbon cycle has been constant

    Yes indeed it has. That was my point. I am most pleased your massive IQ allowed you to understand me ;)

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  65. publicwatchdog (2,094 comments) says:

    Here we go Kiwibloggers!

    I know THOUSANDS of you will want the opportunity to show your opposition to the ‘pro-investor’ /’anti-public majority’ TransPacific Partnership Agreement?

    (What sort of ‘partnership’ – excludes the public?
    Why is the TPPA so ‘top secret’?)

    Here you go!

    SIGN ON HERE FOLKS TO SHOW YOUR OPPOSITION TO THE TRANS-PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP AGREEMENT! (TPPA)

    http://gpjanz.wordpress.com/2012/11/21/urgent-auckland-round-target-1-million-sign-ons-to-avaaz-petititon-to-stop-the-tpp/

    MY COMMENT:

    What’s good for big business it not usually good for the public majority.

    The neo-liberal reforms have proven that FREE TRADE = PRIVATISATION.

    Arguably the root cause of corruption is privatisation – how is it decided who gets the contracts?

    Where’s the corruption-risk assessment of ‘Free Trade Agreements’ such as the TPPA?

    (Haven’t been provided with any reply from MFAT on that question…… first asked it back in 2010 – at the last round of TPPA negotiations held in NZ).

    Where is is the ‘cost-benefit analysis’ which proves that the private provision of public services is a more ‘cost-effective’ use of tax-payer and ratepayer monies, compared with when those services used to be provided ‘in-house’ at central and local government level?

    How much public monies could be saved by CUTTING OUT THE CONTRACTORS (especially private consultants)?

    Where is the TRANSPARENCY?

    Where is the ACCOUNTABILITY?

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  66. RightNow (6,647 comments) says:

    Here we go Penny:

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  67. Elaycee (4,299 comments) says:

    Ahoy Penny:

    You never answered my recent query so I’ll ask it again:

    Is there any truth in the rumour you’re the same Penelope Mary Bright that one time author (and former MP) Ross Meurant outed in a book he wrote some time back? Apparently he said a Penelope Mary Bright introduced yourself to a particular rally in Auckland as a member of the Workers Communist League. Apparently, the same rally was attended by a chap named John Bernard Minto. Does this ring any bells?

    Where is the TRANSPARENCY? And the ACCOUNTABILITY?

    Pot. Kettle. Black.

    PS: Is Minto the ‘Dodgy John” you keep harping about / suggesting has ‘gone’ somewhere…?

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  68. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Griff,

    Into this carbon cycle we have realised co2 that has been trapped for millions of years. From back in time when the climate of the earth was far different.This will have far reaching consequence for humanity

    But is it not also the case that our way of life currently depends upon a source of energy that cannot fully be replaced by alternatives and that neglecting this source of energy will also have consequences for humanity?

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  69. Griff (6,709 comments) says:

    This will have far reaching consequence for humanity

    If we Mankind continue to do this we must be aware of the consequence.

    Propaganda from the hydro carbon industry’s holding us back from the recognition of this fact.

    Are my views of the world socialist.

    I am strongly nationalistic I would like what is best for New Zeeland

    Hydro and geo energy are clean and green The RMA should encourage more diverse sources of energy generation. Peoples views, the ancient rights of maori, it will scare the horses. Should not come before the community and its needs.

    The future lies in a distributed network .
    Do you have $100,000 and a small stream or windy ridge ? It should be easy for a company or group to generate clean energy. For a micro project 10kw to 100kws the cost of compliance and consultation makes it unprofitable.

    We have two major industries that generate organic matter as a byproduct, Fuelling transport with this is another worthwhile aim.

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  70. David Garrett (6,343 comments) says:

    Ah Penny! There you are again..

    Do you derive any portion of your income from a government benefit?

    (If you are just not going to answer Pen, you could be a dear and save me typing the same question every time I see you here, and just say “I am not going to answer that Garrett”…you can add whatever ephithet before or after my name that makes you feel good)

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  71. graham (2,214 comments) says:

    You may remember, DG, that some time ago I asked Penny some questions. They weren’t especially controversial, I basically asked if she, as someone who had stood for public office (and presumably may well do so again), intended to sign up to and abide by the “Code of Conduct” that she was loudly trumpeting for all people in public office. Penny rather snootily informed that if I would stop making certain comments, she would consider answering my questions. I actually promised that I would do as she requested, and indeed I stuck to that promise. Weeks went by, during which I constantly reminded her of this deal and asked her to answer my questions.

    Never happened.

    What astounds me is that Penny can demand accountability and transparency from others, and yet – as one of the least accountable, least transparent people I know of – somehow keep a straight face while doing so.

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  72. Dave Stringer (182 comments) says:

    re

    Peter ‘I will bring that convicted child murderer to New Zealand because those nasty Americans are mean to him’ Jackson is a lefty nutjob.

    Perhaps if you read a little, or even watched a movie that didn’t contain nudity or cartoon characters, you might realise that the man designated by you as an “convicted child murderer” was, in fact, innocent of the charge.

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  73. nasska (10,623 comments) says:

    Griff

    ….”We have two major industries that generate organic matter as a byproduct, Fuelling transport with this is another worthwhile aim.”…..

    Been there, done that. In the early seventies a mate of mine owned a chook farm & being an extremely practical back yard Kiwi engineer & a plumber by trade, he built a methane digester to use some of the tonnes of chook shit the hens produced. Cooking, HW & heating in the family home was all via this gas.

    Anyway he turned his attention to using methane to run a vehicle. Apparently it is impossible to compress methane without using incredibly expensive technology so he settled for filling a bladder of the stuff which lay on the bed of an old Vanguard 4 that had been cut down to a ute. The gas was fed into the air intake via a hose but acceleration depended on having someone on the back gradually rolling up the bladder to force the methane into the engine.

    It was a disaster waiting for a place to happen & we only travelled about ten miles (including a trip to the pub) before the local traffic cop ordered us off the road. That & his wife swearing that she’d leave (again) if he even thought of pursuing the idea resulted in the vehicle & the idea being left to rust behind the sheds.

    But it has been done. :)

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  74. Longknives (4,411 comments) says:

    “Perhaps if you read a little, or even watched a movie that didn’t contain nudity or cartoon characters, you might realise that the man designated by you as an “convicted child murderer” was, in fact, innocent of the charge.”

    Really? I suggest you research this man yourself- (the confessions, the drinking blood, the failure of lie detector tests etc etc) While you’re at it look up ‘Alford Plea’. He IS a convicted child murderer.
    Just because he is a fashonable ’cause celebre’ doesn’t make him innocent….

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  75. Griff (6,709 comments) says:

    There is some interesting development with algae to create an biological oil the a works like diesel.
    as you are a farmer I know what you use to do work.
    Diesel is the most efficient form of independent energy.

    As a farmer you will have small streams or a windy ridge.
    It would be good on the books if your power bill was zero
    We should be helping farmers to make money if that means they use their gravity feed water reticulation a windy ridge or a sunny valley to generate power that is a double bonus.
    If you have run a power feed to the milking shed you know it costs scary money. Your own hydro wind or solar system could pay that and more.

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  76. Longknives (4,411 comments) says:

    Oh and King Kong was dire….The Lovely Bones was unwatchable crap as well.
    Jackson hasn’t made a decent movie since Meet the Feebles….
    There I said it! (I now await the inevitable ‘Fatwa’ from Wellingtonians)

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  77. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    Why am I not surprised that the nutter Penny is completely opposed to individual liberty.

    She and her thuggish rent-seeking friends threaten us with violence to prevent us from engaging in peaceful and voluntary trade. They coerce us and line their own pockets, whilst the World’s poorest with whom we would like to trade are left mired in grinding poverty.

    Again, it’s no different from the Mafia control of New York garbage collection: Penny and her corrupt and violent mates have got an offer you can’t refuse.

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  78. nasska (10,623 comments) says:

    Griff

    I’ve never been in dairy….if I had I would now probably be wealthy. Sheep & beef doesn’t use a great deal of electrical energy & most of my current property is low lying without fast streams. Solar is expensive beyond reason. There’s no shortage of wind but as I’m in a valley it funnels & is too turbulent for steady generation. The neighbour spent about twenty grand on a windmill & all the gear about five years ago but gave up in disgust.

    In any case I’ve learnt that it is better to stick with what you do reasonably well. The time & capital required for energy self sufficiency just doesn’t make it worthwhile.

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  79. Griff (6,709 comments) says:

    I do not disagree with you prognosis for you particular situation
    As you now nasska i have lived of grid at times so i have a keen understanding as to both the technology and costs involved.
    With the cost of solar at around two dollars a watt it is presently marginal for most existing farms. Hydro ignoring the compliance cost is far cheaper and has a longer life expectant but depends on having enough water and fall. Wind has been used for decades to supply water
    If I was building new or upgrading existing infrastructure on a farm I would be looking very carefully at fixing my long term costs of energy and the overall cost of its delivery. One way to do this is generate your own and sell any surplus to the grid

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  80. Reid (15,917 comments) says:

    Oh goody. The Maori news on RadioNZ is telling us how Mt Tongariro has to get things off his chest every now and then and this explains the eruption.

    Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

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  81. RightNow (6,647 comments) says:

    Yeah, more like it farted in its sleep.

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  82. chiz (1,119 comments) says:

    Maybe the resident Taniwha hasn’t been paid off?

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  83. publicwatchdog (2,094 comments) says:

    Keep up David Garrett?

    I don’t know how many times I have explained on Kiwiblog that I do NOT receive any ‘taxpayer’ money for the work that I do.

    I am not on any benefit.

    How about yourself?

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’.

    PS: http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com has the ‘Informations’ filed by Mr Graham McCready in the Wellington District Court, that require John Banks, ACT MP for Epsom to appear at 1.45pm, Tuesday 11 November 2012.

    I’m sure you will find this fascinating :)

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  84. publicwatchdog (2,094 comments) says:

    “Penny and her corrupt and violent mates have got an offer you can’t refuse.”

    errr…….. got any FACTS and EVIDENCE to back up your rather outlandish claims ‘Wat dabney’?

    (I won’t hold my breath……. )

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  85. Griff (6,709 comments) says:

    Kea
    As usual my post could lead to more exploration of knowledge for those with an IQ over 100 and an ability to think. Are you bald ? You should be as things must leave a mark as they go over your head.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrong_Planet :lol: moron

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  86. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Longknives (1,798) Says:
    November 21st, 2012 at 5:10 pm

    “Perhaps if you read a little, or even watched a movie that didn’t contain nudity or cartoon characters, you might realise that the man designated by you as an “convicted child murderer” was, in fact, innocent of the charge.”

    Really? I suggest you research this man yourself- (the confessions, the drinking blood, the failure of lie detector tests etc etc) While you’re at it look up ‘Alford Plea’. He IS a convicted child murderer.
    Just because he is a fashonable ’cause celebre’ doesn’t make him innocent….

    With not much to do I’ve just read the Wikipedia entry on the case. I’ve heard about the Paradise Lost documentaries but I’ve not wanted to watch them given some of the graphic footage that I’ve heard are on it. Anyway, while I have no idea what really happened, based on what I’ve read there seems little justification in believing Echols guilty.

    First of all, lie detector tests are rubbish. They may have a propensity to detect deception but they suffer from too many errors to be reliable. Otherwise, how do you explain the failed polygraphs of Chris Morgan and Brian Holland? You can’t have it both ways and consider it evidence of guilt for some but dismiss it for others. How would anyone feel being questioned about the murders of three boys? A little bit anxious? Of course anyone would be because regardless if you are innocent, if you’re being questioned it means you’re a suspect and innocence is not a guarantee you will not be blamed for something.

    As for drinking blood. What does this prove? Teenagers do lots of stupid things, it isn’t exactly relevant evidence that someone committed three brutal murders.

    The confessions also appear very unreliable. They appear unreliable because the West Memphis PD lacks credibility. They botched the investigation, refused assistance from state police, and there are allegations they went out to prove what they thought they already knew. These sorts of manufactured confessions are not what I would consider reliable evidence. Certainly far from removing reasonable doubt.

    The Alford Plea? A plea of innocence while making no contest. A pretty sensible thing to do after so many years in prison. Gets them out of prison and allows the state to save face for what was apparently a very piss poor investigation in a bible-belt town full of nutty Christians getting all excited about “satanic rituals”. This is not to mention the apparent misconduct of the jury foreman.

    I found this bit interesting from Wiki:

    John E. Douglas, a former longtime FBI agent who has interviewed the country’s most prolific serial killers during his years with the FBI and works as a profiler to help police in their searches for violent criminals, said the slayings of the three West Memphis boys weren’t the work of three unsophisticated teenage killers, but that of a single person who set out to degrade and punish the victims.[65] Douglas was formerly FBI Unit Chief of the Investigative Support Unit of the National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime for 25 years. Douglas stated in his report for Echols’ legal team that there was no evidence for Satanic ritual involvement in the killings and agreed with the post-mortem animal predation explanation for the alleged knife injuries. Douglas believed that the perpetrator had a violent history and was familiar with the victims and geography. He stated that the victims had died from a combination of blunt force trauma wounds and drowning in a personal cause driven crime.[4]

    If I were to put money on it, I’d bet that the three aren’t guilty.

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  87. mikenmild (10,630 comments) says:

    Nice to come home from a hard day’s work and see Griff being so kind as to reply to Kea (why would he bother?) and Weihana using the unpopular debating tactic of resorting to facts.

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  88. nasska (10,623 comments) says:

    ….”Nice to come home from a hard day’s work”…..

    Hyperbole alert! :)

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  89. nasska (10,623 comments) says:

    An awkward question for a Welshman…

    Ref: http://imgur.com/gallery/oPN2h

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  90. mikenmild (10,630 comments) says:

    Pretty sure that photo is from the South Island nasska…

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  91. Griff (6,709 comments) says:

    Average partners for within the species and culture nasska

    As to interspecies my view on the conundrum has been recorded on KB for prosperity in prior comments.
    :
    As I am someone who could be from the “wrong planet” My inability to read body language makes socializing with my own species hard enough.

    If I find it v hard to understand woman, sheep would be totally beyond my limited cognitive ability and poor diplomatic skills :grin:

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  92. nasska (10,623 comments) says:

    A man was walking along a California beach and stumbled across an old lamp. He picked it up and rubbed it and out popped a genie.
    The genie said, “OK, You released me from the lamp, blah blah blah. This is the fourth time this month and I’m getting a little sick of these wishes so you can forget about three… You only get one wish!”
    The man sat, and thought about it for a while and said, “I’ve always wanted to go to Hawaii, but I’m scared to fly and I get very seasick. Could you build me a bridge to Hawaii so I can drive over there to visit?”
    The genie laughed and said, “That’s impossible!!! Think of the logistics of that! How would the supports ever reach the bottom of the Pacific? Think of how much concrete — how much steel!! No, think of another wish.”
    The man said “OK, I will try to think of a really good wish”. Finally, he said, “I’ve been married and divorced four times. My wives always said that I don’t care and that I’m insensitive. So, I wish that I could understand women, know how they feel inside and what they’re thinking when they give me the silent treatment, know why they’re crying, know what they really want when they say “nothing,” know how to make them truly happy.”
    The genie said, “Do you want that bridge to be two lanes or four?”

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  93. David Garrett (6,343 comments) says:

    Ah Penny! thank you so much for (finally) answering my question…and if you had actually read the first 13 of my queries you would have seen that I have already said – several times – that I have never been on a government benefit…

    So, progress! How do you earn an income then Pen?

    Me? I provide legal advice here and in Tonga, and sometimes do a bit of manual labour just to keep me grounded and with a reasonable level of (middle aged) fitness..

    The floor is yours my dear!

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  94. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    10 Catholic Priests were killed in a road accident.

    At the Pearly Gates, St. Peter says.
    “If any of you are Paedophiles, you can fuck off down to Hell”.

    Nine of them start to walk away when St Peter calls out.

    “And take this deaf bastard with you”

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  95. nasska (10,623 comments) says:

    A man runs into a psychiatrists office and pleads for help.

    “I’ve had an imaginary friend for years, but now it seems that my whole life is revolving around him. I’ve even started talking to him in front of other people. I don’t know what to do!”

    “Have you spoken to the Archbishop, Father?” Asks the psychiatrist.

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  96. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Are you bald ?

    Yes I am Griff.

    I am a Buddhist Monk. I live a simple, but rich, life of prayer, chastity and meditation. I also find time for climate “denial”. :)

    Later I will provide some facts that show high IQ does not equate to ability, in the real world, as that appears to be your latest angle on supporting your doomsday cult.

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  97. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Oh goody. The Maori news on RadioNZ is telling us how Mt Tongariro has to get things off his chest every now and then and this explains the eruption.

    Has anyone worked out the carbon tax yet ?

    Griff is really brainy (he said so) perhaps he can help…

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  98. Reid (15,917 comments) says:

    This is an extremely good doco on Putin:

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  99. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=sbF-4LOOC5c

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  100. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Yesterday I was at my local Aldi store buying a large bag of Chum dog food for my loyal pet and was in the checkout queue when a woman behind me asked if I had a dog.

    What did she think I had – an elephant? So, since I’m retired and have little to do, on impulse I told her that no, I didn’t have a dog, I was starting the Chum Diet again. I added that I probably shouldn’t, because I ended up in hospital last time, but I’d lost 2 stone before I woke up in intensive care with tubes coming out of most of my orifices and IVs in both arms.

    I told her that it was essentially a perfect diet and that the way that it works is to load your pockets with Chum nuggets and simply eat one or two every time you feel hungry. The food is nutritionally complete so it works well and I was going to try it again. (I have to mention here that practically everyone in queue was now enthralled with my story.)

    Horrified, she asked me if I ended up in intensive care because the dog food poisoned me. I told her no, I stepped off the kerb to sniff an Irish Setter’s arse and a car hit me.

    I thought the guy behind her was going to have a heart attack he was laughing so hard. I’m now banned from Aldi Stores.

    Better watch what you ask retired people. They have all the time in the world to think of daft things to say.

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  101. mikenmild (10,630 comments) says:

    I think I read a very similar joke a few years ago that ended:
    “But what did happen to your husband then?”
    “Oh, he was lying in the middle of the road licking his dick when a truck ran over him.”

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  102. Tauhei Notts (1,603 comments) says:

    New Zealand cricketers are praying for rain in Columbo.
    No New Zealand cricket team in the entire history of test cricket has ever lost six consecutive test matches. They lost five in 1954 – 55 but not SIX.

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  103. mikenmild (10,630 comments) says:

    New Zealand cricket is in a complete shambles. I thought Jonathan Millmow summed up the multitude of problems very well:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/7976183/Tough-review-of-Black-Caps-needed

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  104. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Looks like the Law and the Court maybe starting to harden up to protestors.
    After the Waihope debacle its not before time. You cause loss to people through your actions you should pay. Lucy the Warrior might just be the first.

    Greenpeace protesters asked to pay $700,000
    LYN HUMPHREYS
    Eight Greenpeace protesters, headed by Lucy Lawless, are being asked to pay $700,000 after pleading guilty earlier this year to illegally boarding the drillship Noble Discoverer in February.

    “Shell is assisting the police and the court with their inquiry into the costs associated with the delay to the operator, Shell Todd Oil Services.”

    To date the figure of more than $700,000 was the estimated cost to the Noble Discoverer contractor, Shell Todd Oil Services, of the delay caused by the Greenpeace occupation, Mr Jager said.

    Senior Sergeant Malcolm Greig confirmed yesterday the sentencing was adjourned and a new date was yet to be scheduled.

    In the meantime, police continued to work with the victims, Shell, to verify the reparation amount, he said.

    By law, it was for the prosecution to seek a reparation order on behalf of any victims.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/7981817/Greenpeace-protesters-asked-to-pay-700-000

    About time, next on the agenda, Penny the dumb, Minto, Mana etc etc. If they can’t pay lock em up.

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  105. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Sounds like some of the “younger” generation on KB, you know the ones who work all day blogging from their Govt. jobs.

    Cheating on partners, lying to friends and stealing from work – it sounds like a bad rap sheet, but it has become the norm for Kiwis under 30.

    What’s more, most of them seem to think their behaviour is acceptable.

    A Colmar Brunton study has found the level of dishonesty among young New Zealanders “shockingly high”.

    Spencer Willis, who led the survey, said it was worrying that people deemed their actions to be OK.

    “There appears to be a wide gap between the way people see themselves and the way they view society.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7981507/Generation-Ys-telling-a-pack-of-lies

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