General Debate 22 November 2012

November 22nd, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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84 Responses to “General Debate 22 November 2012”

  1. Peter (1,712 comments) says:

    Rajen Prasad.

    Biding his time….

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  2. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    Hulun’s UN-sponsored alarm clock:

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  3. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ah, GD is up – must rush off to work.

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  4. iMP (2,385 comments) says:

    Having constantly cited Catholic priests amid their sexual activity with minors, is it relevant that ‘Elmo’ is gay amid his alleged sexual activity with a minor? http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2012/11/22/gay-elmo-goes-accusations-of-child-sex/

    Plus faux outrage at RNZ Hobbit ban. Poor baby. http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2012/11/22/snobbit-ban-on-rnz/

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  5. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    While the Labour home burns they keep scrapping over what colour the water is – Cunliffe camp denials, Labour foes and woes

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  6. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    Schedule to watch this sometime over the weekend if interested, very insightful doco on who Putin is:

    Ah, GD is up – must rush off to work.

    mm have you mistaken us for Facebook?

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  7. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    So the IRB is worried about “the best interests of the Game and its integrity” and is appealing Adam Thompson’s one-match suspension for stamping. But where was the IRB’s concern for “the best interests of the Game and its integrity” when Dean Greyling tried to knock Richie McCaw out with his forearm and got a one match ban?

    By all means appeal against lenient suspensions, but don’t cherry-pick them. IMHO opinion Greyling’s act was by far the more serious, given the potential to cause a serious head or neck injury.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/faux-outrage-from-irb.html

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  8. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    Ah, GD is up – must rush off to work.

    mm have you mistaken us for Facebook?

    Reid,

    Very good indeed

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  9. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    See this:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7981525/Immigration-staff-axed-over-privacy-breaches

    SLIP-UPS THIS YEAR

    March: ACC inadvertently emailed personal information of about 6700 clients, including 250 sexual abuse cases, to claimant Bronwyn Pullar.

    October: Work and Income closes its self-serve kiosks after blogger Keith Ng reveals he was able to access private details of thousands of clients, including children in care.

    October: Inland Revenue had 32 privacy breaches involving personal details of 6300 people being sent to the wrong person in the past year.

    November: The Education Ministry’s new payroll system, Novopay, sends details, including the bank account numbers of teachers, to at least two wrong schools.

    November: Immigration NZ breaches the privacy of 207 clients over the past three years. Only 12 are informed their personal details were accessed.

    This ACC issue compounded by the Work and Income issue has resulted in huge friction generated for no real result. It’s a nothing issue the idiot media have got hold of and become all hysterical about as they usually do and consequently has made every single govt dept conduct itself differently, for no actual result. Because these things do happen from time to time, even in a tight ship. You can’t protect against malicious staff and those are the staff who access customer/client details for their own purposes. This can happen anywhere but that probably explains some of the tax and immigration cases. The Novopay issue was obviously where the staff at the contact centre gave the school staff Administrator access to the wrong school. Big deal. The ACC issue was one staff member who didn’t do her job properly and scroll down to check what else was on the xls spreadsheet before she clicked Send. See what I mean? Sure, these should not happen. But it’s not the crime of the century.

    The net effect of hysterical journalists who don’t understand business operations, is of course the politicians come down on all their CEOs and everyone in every single govt dept becomes very focused on how to deal with solving a nothing problem. Meanwhile “frontline operations” – whatever they are – I mean does it ever occur to any journo or politician that if it wasn’t for the back-office operations, there wouldn’t actually be any “frontline” operations – have to continue.

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  10. graham (2,335 comments) says:

    Hey, The Standard has a sense of humour!

    http://thestandard.org.nz/a-good-time-to-join-labour/

    “A good time to join Labour” by IrishBill. – Date published: 8:05 am, November 22nd, 2012.

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  11. SalParadise (54 comments) says:

    Good news on the broadband front:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/7979460/Vodafone-offers-new-Chocka-200GB-naked-broadband-plan

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  12. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    The Church Of England has managed to make a mess of things again.

    After trying to bring the world movement into line with a hopelessly worded “Covenant” (theyd been watching too many movies ) that was thrown out, they have now voted in England about woman bishops.

    The CofE is a movement that is trying to please everyone – but actually is effectively pissing everyone off. They are a bit like the labour party – Fems, coloured, whites, gays, non- gays, non-sexuals, highly-seedl, easily-offended, not-easily-offended, etc, etc.

    Anyway the CofE has just taken a vote on the subject of women bishops. the vote was a no vote – by something like 238 to 232 against the motion. so a narrow loss.
    Its actually not any sort of result really. Its not a strong decsion one way or the other, it will annoy obviously half those voting – who will think they have been cheated. And being so close it will be like a Cunliffe situation – they wont give up and will keep agitating.

    Frankly I cant stand the idea of women bishops – or women ministers. If youve ever listened to a woman preaching youll know that theyll usually send you to sleep or send you insane – as they try to push politically correct thoughts out from the pulpit – and they cant bloody well project their voice very well.

    At least the catholic church has some imutable rules that prevent arguements that divert everyones attention all the time.

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  13. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    In the C of E barry, many of the clergy is somewhat ahead of the congregation in terms of their perspectives on “pwogwessive” issues. It’s the kindness of Jesus in them, is my reading of it. Unfortunately, in my experience, many clergy aren’t politically astute. They go overboard on the kindness aspect and fail to see the cynical calculations that often lie behind many “humanitarian” policies.

    The big one coming up for the Church in Aotearoa is the gay marriage issue and there is currently some internal discussion going on over that. I suspect the discussion paper will approve of it. This may overstep the bounds for the substantial element of the congregation which doesn’t approve of it. And this part of the congregation is the base of the Church.

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  14. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    barry

    ….”they try to push politically correct thoughts out from the pulpit – and they cant bloody well project their voice very well.”…..

    Obviously the Anglicans are not picking the right females for the job. I understand that KB’s very own Water Woman is currently between protests & may be in a position to help out. It’s a given that she has no problems with her voice & she should be able to sort the handwringers out in short order.

    Next problem.

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  15. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Nasska

    As Im not familiar with ‘Water Woman” i thought Id best check it out and update myself.

    First item on google is http://www.waterwomanproject.org/ – not sure this is who you are referring to.

    “The Water Woman Festival is an interactive ART and Ecological Experience featuring Eco-Artists, Green-Architects, Top Natural Builders, Permaculture Designers, Inspirational Eco-Leaders, Soulful Musicians and Sustainable Lifestyle Visionaries. How CAN we build art spaces and eco villages of our dreams and bring fun and easy things home to make living more beautiful and sustainable?. Come and See! ”

    Sounds like a load of shite to me.

    So them clicked images……… well they can come to my pulpit anytime…….
    http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=water+woman&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=sDOtUNesIYWBiwKKyYHYDg&sqi=2&ved=0CEYQsAQ&biw=1152&bih=651

    Ive just got to convince the rest of the committee where we should put the waterpool……
    no need for microphones either…………..

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  16. flipper (4,067 comments) says:

    Keeping S ….
    Quite agree.
    The IRB’s double standard today is no different than it was when Daniel Carter was only cited in Wales after the former COE, Miller, became involved.

    Sooner or later the fools in Dublin (like the Twicker folk and Fleet Street fools that know little about rugby ) will come to the reality that 9.9 times from 10 NZ players at an international level do NOT intentionally engage in foul play. The IRB is highly selective. No ? Well look at Rougerie (RWC final gouging of McCaw) and then this season – Greyling and Higginbottom. Higginbottom now says he “does not regret” his actions against McCaw in the last Brisbane test. None of them reviewed by the false God in Dublin.
    I guess it what comes from being too successful.
    One presumes that NZ has an appropriately senior QC ready, willing and able to sit the IRB wallahs on their backsides and then go after the IRB’ s jugular.

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  17. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    barry

    The opportunity I was referring to is Penny Bright, ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’ & Publicwatchdog.

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  18. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    The party before the assassination
    and the missing fingerprint

    There’s no mystery here, never was

    The meeting in Dallas the night before the assassination included:

    H.L. Hunt
    J. Edgar Hoover
    Richard Nixon
    Lyndon B. Johnson

    …At the home of Clint Murchison, the Texas oil tycoon.

    Murchison owned J. Edgar Hoover, Lyndon B. Johnson, and State of Texas law enforcement and stood to lose a fortune if Kennedy changed the oil depletion allowance and faced the very real possibility of jail time should then-Vice President Johnson be indicted, which gave the appearance of being a certainty.

    Nixon and others involved claimed not to remember where he was that night.

    The fingerprint found in the Book Depository sniper’s nest and suppressed by the FBI belonged to LBJ’s henchman who was convicted in at least one murder and was suspected of committing several others on Johnson’s behalf.

    But it doesn’t matter who did what, what weapon they used, and what position they fired from.

    That’s like asking which janitor they sent and whether he used a wire or nylon brush.

    The mountains of minutia, endless conferences, books and assassination experts including Oliver Stone’s artfully loopy movie all obscure the basic points.

    http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/assassination-studies-1/the-party-before-the-assassinationand-the-missing-fingerprint.html

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  19. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    @hinamau,

    1. The illuminati / Rothschild conspiracy for world domination
    2. Kennedy assassination conspiracy

    What next? Man didn’t land on the moon? US govt complicit in 9/11?

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  20. graham (2,335 comments) says:

    nasska: Speaking as an Anglican, don’t you bloody dare …

    We actually prefer our priests to have some degree of decorum, honesty, and openness.

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  21. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    “A good time to join Labour” by IrishBill. – Date published: 8:05 am, November 22nd, 2012.

    Actually graham, it really IS a good time to join Labour. For ten bucks, you can join the party, have your say if the leadership vote goes to the party rank and file in February, and then you can resign again. Labour may not yet realise what a beast they have unleashed upon themselves. If enough pro-Shearer people were to join, the pro-Cunliffes would be outvoted when push comes to shove! It can’t fail to work out well :P

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  22. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    The Standard wanted to be in the politically relevant but maybe not to be the spotlight on the trainwreck. Has the iron horse bolted or can The Standard help get Labour back on the rails?

    Attack politics may be too ingrained in their DNA. The Standard’s worst ambition.

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  23. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    hinamanu those of us interested in the fields like the JFK coup have already familiarised ourselves with all the issues. We already know for example Bush Senior was photographed in Dallas. We know about Executive Order 101111 which many say was the reason because it destroyed the Fed’s control over fiat money. We know about JFK’s Letter To Israeli PM Eshkol July 5, 1963 which is also what many say was the reason. We know about JFK’s threat to the CIA to scatter it to the four winds which was because JFK saw it was not an intelligence agency but a regime-change agency which is what it continues to be. All of us already interested already know all of this. We also know things like the fact the bodyguard was called off just before the car hit the Plaza, the allegation it was the driver which is why Jackie crawled to the back, to get away from him. We know about the other allegation from the excellent but long six-hour doco called “The men who killed Kennedy” that it was Marseilles hit-men who did it, one dressed as a cop behind the picket fence and they have a photo of that cop pointing a rifle and there was another one firing from the overhead which explains the headshot as well, and discounts the driver theory. But does explain by avoiding the need for, the magic bullet theory. I mean why anyone thinks there wasn’t a conspiracy is an idiot, because there clearly was. But yet many do hinamanu. Personally I’ve just learned to accept it. It’s their framework collapses if they follow the ramifications of accepting the evidence you see. They can’t believe it happened like that because that would mean their whole understanding of the democratic framework is wrong. It’s a shame for them they haven’t thought it through because the fact is, their whole understanding of the democratic framework is in fact wrong, but you can’t explain that to them they have to come to that of their own volition.

    So what I do personally is post interesting developments on an issue such as say this Savile issue which is penetrating the heart of their understanding for in fact this goes to the Royal Family and very high figures are involved in the Thatcher times. Lord McAlpine was guilty, per a Scallywag article written in the seventies that he never sued for and was very explicit. Savile was a child supplier to the aristocracy. But the media don’t mention that.

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  24. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    iMP,

    …is it relevant that ‘Elmo’ is gay amid his alleged sexual activity with a minor?

    I’d say the more relevant facts are that the first accuser raised the issue with his employer, not the police, and the second is suing for 5 million.

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  25. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    Here’s an interesting piece from the Daily Torygraph.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/9690587/The-Tories-have-gone-astray-and-I-helped.html

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  26. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Transcript of an interview Dime did…

    Reporter: So Dime, it’s been a day since you were slapped with a massive 50 demerit points from DPF. How do you Feel?
    Dime: I’m conflicted to tell the truth. Normally I don’t mind a good slap! Seriously though, this just came out of no where and I’m quite hurt.

    Reporter: Is it true you have never received demerits before?
    Dime: Not quite. I once picked up a measly 20 but DPF felt so bad he declared an amnesty and wiped everyone’s points.

    Reporter: Quite telling.
    Dime: Indeed.

    Reporter: Is it true DPF once declared you the soul of kiwiblog?
    Dime: Ya know, I’m not sure. I’ve heard that through various people though.

    Reporter: Will you appeal the 50 points?
    Dime: I have people looking into it. It’s a tough one though. DPF is essentially Judge Dredd. I’m not sure if you know Judge Dredd but he doesn’t often change his mind…

    Reporter: Perhaps a reduced penalty?
    Dime: I think that would be the fairer option. Kiwiblog states that in order to get slapped with 50 points the comment needs to be “grossly inflammatory with no redeeming quality”. Don’t get me wrong the comment was in poor taste. Grossly inflammatory though? I thought at an absolute maximum it would have been a 35 point penalty for being highly inflammatory.

    Reporter: You mentioned earlier that DPF mainly leaves the big demerits for right wingers.
    Dime: Well its interesting. I did a quick google search and of the dozen or so 50 point smackdowns this year they all went to fellas on the right.

    Reporter: Do you think kiwiblog is over compensating?
    Dime: It’s a tough one. I can understand the reasoning. A right winger says something nasty and then the left are all over it “those kiwibloggers are nuts, they are nasty, they said this blah blah” but really, they say those things anyway.

    Reporter: What will you do with your time off?
    Dime: Well, I’m only on 50 points. That’s all I have after 5000+ posts so I should be safe. But if worse comes to worse I will just go on a giant bender. Sleep with barely legal prostitutes etc it will be fun. It should help take away the pain.

    Reporter: I see your demerits haven’t been posted on the demerit page yet?
    Dime: Yeah I noticed that. Maybe that’s how it will stay. Im not sure DPF can pull the trigger on Dime.

    Reporter: Is it true there is a “Free Dime” song being worked on?
    Dime: I haven’t heard that, but it sounds believable.

    Reporter: Thanks for your time
    Dime: Go fuck yourself.

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  27. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    How long til Len Brown & co moot this?

    http://gizmodo.com/5962664/san-francisco-approves-tiny-apartments-for-normal+sized-people-with-tinier-budgets

    20sqm apartments. nice.

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  28. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    dime – Who are the City Council to say developers may not build small apartments if they think they can sell them?

    If it’s a disaster then afterwards the vultures could always buy whole floors cheap, knock out some walls and refit as proper apartments?

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  29. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    dime, loved your interview, and I’m really glad you didn’t go with nickel as your pseudonym because while I’m happy to join a ‘get dime back’ campaign, I hate nickelback.

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  30. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    hey dime

    if it’s any consolation kowtow agrees with what you said yesterday. I can’t say I’d give a shit about a rocket hitting any lefty Hamas hugging reporteress.

    These turds are “enablers” in the destruction of the west ,as such are the enemy. In a shooting war they’d be an important target.sadly they wage war against the west,using western values of free speech and decency to undermine and destroy those very values.

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  31. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    kowtow – well said!

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  32. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    Hurling abuse wasn’t the problem for Petra Mills. But a court ruled that calling her New Zealand neighbour an Australian was racist and against the law.

    Czech-born Mills, 31, has been found guilty of racially aggravated public disorder after a rant at her New Zealand-born neighbour in Macclesfield, south of Manchester.

    Chelsea O’Reilly, who has dual British and New Zealand citizenship, said: “She called me a stupid fat Australian b****. Because of my accent there can be some confusion over my nationality. She knew I was from New Zealand.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/7983223/Kiwi-Don-t-call-me-Australian

    Don’t call me a stupid fat Australian bitch, I’m a stupid fat Kiwi bitch! :)

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  33. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    The insult wasn’t being called a fat bitch, it was being called an Australian.

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  34. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Keiser Report Predicted It Was a Shakedown of Standard Chartered

    This clip originally aired on Saturday, August 11. More than four days before the newly created New York state financial ‘regulator’ ‘setttled’ with Standard Chartered for $340 million. It was a shakedown.

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  35. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    mikenmild (5,664) Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 8:03 am

    Ah, GD is up – must rush off to work.
    ————————–

    how interesting. We were all fooled, we thought this was your work!

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  36. Carlos (683 comments) says:

    Yes, they will be better here than the ones in Europe. Not! There is no reason to think that these pack rapes won’t increase.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10849230

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  37. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    16 years is a long time for a sleazy little arab in a kiwi prison. shame its not 50 or capital punishment.

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  38. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    RRM – more concerned that brown len will open up land especially for 20sqm apartments.

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  39. DJP6-25 (1,387 comments) says:

    bhudson 9:28am. Dud how did you know? ;-)

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  40. David Garrett (7,289 comments) says:

    dime: I am surprised you don’t realise that it is unlikely in the extreme that this prick will spend 16 years – or anything like it – actually INSIDE. Minimum non- parole of eight – he might serve 10 or 11.

    Please listen carefully: Other than minimum non parole periods, and second and third “strike” offences, NO SENTENCE GIVEN BY A NEW ZEALAND COURT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS (Sorry, I dont know how to do italics on here, so CAPS is the only option I have to add emphasis.

    And for completeness, the above is because of the Sentencing Act 2002, passed under Clark’s watch. That Act – now somewhat modified by three strikes – says that Judges MUST give the most lenient sentence possible in all the circumstances. And the Parole Act passed by the same government says the Parole Board must release him as soon as possible.

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  41. DJP6-25 (1,387 comments) says:

    bhudson 9:28am. Dude. How did you know? [Sorry, I hit the wrong key before sending the first one.]

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  42. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    The other name was Bashir. And what of the others who weren’t caught.

    talking of caught, Aotearoa seems to be catching up with the rest of the world ,where these kinds of immigrant crime against women are common.

    Remember, celebrate multiculturalism and diversity.

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  43. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    David Garrett:

    Type [i]words you want to be in italics[/i].

    Except use the greater than, less than symbols in place of the square brackets and you’ll see

    words you want to be in italics

    Replace the i with b for bold text e.g:

    words you want to be in italics

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  44. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    DG – I know. My buddy was sentenced to 14 years for murder back in 96.. did 11 years..

    I think a pack rapist will do 11 out of those 16 minimum.

    Your 3 strikes law is a beautiful thing. I just pray the left never repeal it.

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  45. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    In sentencing, Justice Ailsa Duffey told Abdi he had no insight into his offending and no remorse for the victim.

    “You maintain your innocence despite DNA evidence.”

    Abdi’s lawyer Peter Kaye appealed to the court for a merciful sentence and said his client had said he was sorry for the position that the victim found herself in.

    Jailed by a woman Judge – I bet that hurt. :-)

    I don’t know much about how the Parole Board hearings work, but based on what little I’ve gleaned from the media, surely an attitude like this is not going to impress the Parole Board?

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  46. publicwatchdog (2,596 comments) says:

    Good moaning Kiwibloggers :)

    John Banks, Minister of Small Business, Regulatory Reform, Associate Minister of Commerce and Associate Minister of Education – in more trouble?

    How come NZ Ministers can own shares in public or private companies or businesses?

    Australian Ministers can’t.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.act.org.nz/posts/statement-from-hon-john-banks-re-talent2

    21 NOV 2012
    4:28PM

    Statement from Hon John Banks re: Talent2

    JOHN BANKS / BLOG

    The Hon John Banks Family Trust has not held shares in Talent2 International Limited since 28 May 2012 when Talent2 moved to privatise the company and de-list from the Australian stock exchange. Mr Banks advised the Cabinet Office of the sale of his Family Trust’s shares on 29 May 2012.

    Mr Banks became a shareholder in Talent2 as a result of Talent2’s acquisition of Sugar International Limited which the Hon John Banks’ Family Trust held shares in.

    Mr Banks declared his Family Trust’s shareholding in Talent2 to the Cabinet Office when he first became a Minister. He has never received any government information or briefings regarding Talent2 (or any company they are connected to), or participated in any discussions at either Cabinet or Cabinet Committee.

    The issue of the pay system is outside Mr Banks’ responsibilities as Associate Minister of Education, and the Novopay contract was signed off in September 2008 by the previous Labour Government.

    Note: Andrew Banks, Chairman of Talent2, is not related to Hon John Banks.
    _____________________________________________________

    AUSSIE RULES:

    http://www.dpmc.gov.au/guidelines/docs/ministerial_ethics.pdf

    FOREWORD

    Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries hold high public office and are entrusted with considerable privilege and power.

    The people of Australia are entitled to expect that, in the discharge of their duties, they will act in a manner that is consistent with the highest standards of integrity and propriety.

    In 2007, the Labor Government introduced new Standards of Ministerial Ethics, requiring our Ministers to conduct themselves to a higher standard of conduct than had been the case in the past.

    The Standards are underpinned by the principle that Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries must act with due regard for integrity, fairness, accountability, responsibility and the public interest.

    As Prime Minister, I will do all I can to ensure that Ministers and Parliamentary Secretaries continue to live up to these high standards of conduct, and in doing so, continue to live up to the expectations of the Australian public.

    Julia Gillard
    ___________________________________________________

    Shareholdings

    2.9. In recognition of the collective responsibility that Ministers bear in relation to Cabinet decisions, these Standards require that Ministers divest themselves of investments and other interests in any public or private company or business, other than public superannuation funds or publicly listed managed funds or trust arrangements where:

    • the investments are broadly diversified and the Minister has no influence over investment decisions of the fund or trust; and

    • the fund or trust does not invest to any significant extent in a business sector that could give rise to a conflict of interest with the Minister’s public duty.

    2.10. If a Minister becomes aware that a fund or trust has invested in a company that might give rise to a perception of a conflict of interest, the Minister should inform the Prime Minister
    immediately and liquidate the investment in the fund or trust if required to do so.

    2.11. If a Minister is required by these Standards to dispose of an interest of any kind, the transfer of the interest to a family member or to a nominee or private trust is not an acceptable form of divestment.
    _______________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  47. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    Griff read the interview With dime
    Then checked the demerit table
    Griff to has the dreaded 50 demerits
    Griff now half way to a week holiday :lol:

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  48. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Hi De Hi Public Watchdog. you really must take up knitting or Bocci

    Guten Morgen all.

    Interesting Times:

    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/11/cunliffe-new-anderton-and-new-left.html

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  49. David Garrett (7,289 comments) says:

    RRM: many thanks for that Sir…is the “/” before the words i.e after the > also necessary, or was that a typo? Do you need a / or after the words too?

    dime: Labour has said in the past that they intend to repeal 3S as soon as they regain power…but I was a little suprised that doing so wasnt included with those loony remits they considered at their conference. then again, I wouldn’t put it past the sneaky b…’s to “do a Roger Douglas”, i.e. say absolutely nothing about repealing it pre-election, then do so immediately they get re-elected, knowing the voters have very short memories, and by the time of the election following, everyone would have forgotten what they did.

    My sense though is if it survives until 2017 it will be unrepealable politically. By that time we will have perhaps 50 or 100 second strikers, and half a dozen third, all of whom will be thoroughly bad…chaps. Repealing it at that point would have the same effect on them as Nordmeyer’s “black budget”. Well, that’s what I am hoping is the case…

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  50. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    DG – I was discussing this yesterday with my brother. Thats the conclusion we reached. Bloody hard to get public sympathy for the sort of scum who will be on their second strikes.

    Fingers crossed anyway!

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  51. David Garrett (7,289 comments) says:

    dime: You will have noticed a complete lack of any sob stories in the MSM about the 11 second strikers…that’s because they are all bad b..s….at least three of them committed their second strike offence while on bail awaiting sentence for their first…

    Mind you, I do think “colonization” has a lot to do with it…

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  52. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    i to start italics, /i to end them. ;-)

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  53. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Ahoy Penny, I note you haven’t to respond to my query – best I put it to you again:

    Are you the same ‘Penelope Mary Bright’ who introduced herself to a meeting in Auckland as a representative of the Workers Communist League? I’m sure you’d remember the meeting – also attending was a chap called John Bernard Minto.

    Is John Bernard Minto the same ‘dodgyjohn’ who has ‘gone’? 8O

    Elaycee:
    Attendee: Seminar on the the positive effects of the Monadnock PR24. Long time ago…
    Attendee: Carterton Dog Trials – Taratahi Hotel, 1981.
    http://www.VoteforBankstochairtheSFO.ta.nz

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  54. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    I wouldn’t assume Labour will keep 3 strikes just because that’s what real people want…

    Back in 2011 when Labour were talking about extending the IN-WORK tax credit to beneficiaries, there was real outraged disbelief from working class tribal Labour voters like Mrs RRM’s workmates… who don’t have the same sympathy for unemployed bums as the Labour intelligentsia do.

    These same guys like seeing scum locked up for a long time too… and privately will say 3 strikes is one of the best things govt’s done for years, although none of them would ever contemplate voting for Act..

    But clearly labour aren’t too interested in what real people value, so – sadly – I wouldn’t assume anything 3 strikes is entrenched just yet.

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  55. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    RRM – and yet youll do your best to put them in power next election. i cant figure you out dude!

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  56. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    Dime – no, not necessarily.

    Some sort of protest vote is looking increasingly on the cards.

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  57. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    mate, you’re a right winger underneath. youll come to accept it. youll realise that the right have hearts too. we just ave a different idea on how to help people :D

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  58. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    RRM,

    Your best protest is two ticks National

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  59. David Garrett (7,289 comments) says:

    RRM: Serious question…do you believe that those of us on the right – even the far right – can also have compassion for the worse off, but a very different view of how best to help them?

    Or is “compassion for the poor and disadvantaged” solely the preserve of the left?

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  60. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    It depends on who exactly you mean to encompass when you say “us on the right” David…

    I’ve read plenty of opinions on these threads that you pretty much deserve to bleed out through the stump of your missing leg if you don’t have the appropriate medical insurance… because why should I pay any taxes, at all, ever? So I’m a little concerned that if you go far enough to the right, eventually you reach the Ayn Rand / Redbaiter zone where a lack of compassion for anyone besides number one seems to be pretty fundamental to their core beliefs.

    Whereas on the left at the moment, the main problem is well-meaning but incompetent fucking idiots with no idea what they are doing or of how bad and counter-productive their half baked ideas are. But basically they want to help people… they just struggle to comprehend piffling details like (a) how far is too far before it all starts to look a bit socialist, or (b) how on earth the country is supposed to pay for it all, or (c) whether they want/need/deserve to be helped.

    (To say the political left in NZ wants to turn the country into a communist state as part of the global long march towards socialist domination is as inane as saying that you can’t trust John Key because he MUST be corrupt, he’s wearing a suit.)

    Basically I want a political party that is committed to the country being the kind of village that helps citizens raise their children, cares for the sick and makes sure that no-one starves in the gutter, because that is what sets humankind apart from the other animals.

    But at the same time the right is probably correct that there’s a lot of waste and frivolity in our system, that only exists because there was a budget for it last year so naturally it continues.

    If someone started up a new major party tomorrow, to seriously contest every seat in the next election, and they were full of smart, practical guys who were proposing to focus on really improving the environment for business and the parts of the welfare state that really matter, by radically shaking up tax, social spending, justice etc to cut waste and reduce the amount of frivolities to save taxpayer money by only doing the important stuff but doing it really well, and if they didn’t have any dicky social theories about religion or morality they wanted to impose, and they weren’t utterly corrupt and beholden to vested interests like trade unions, I’d probably support them.

    Neither Labour or National are that party, although of those two National certainly seem to have a better handle on reality at the moment.

    I don’t know if this is of any help; it all makes sense to me, in my head… ;-)

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  61. David Garrett (7,289 comments) says:

    RRM: No, that makes sense…and the short version is “Yes, some of those on the right – even the far right – have genuine concern for the poor and disadvantaged”….You just gave a much fuller answer!

    Let me ask you this then…again simply out of curiousity….do you believe Roger Douglas genuinely wanted to help poor people better their lot in life?

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  62. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    RRM – start a party like that and I’ll join you. Good response even though it didn’t exactly answer the question.

    I see quite a lot of claims on lefter forums that they are the intelligent, caring, compassionate, sensible ones, and righties do fit this: “a lack of compassion for anyone besides number one seems to be pretty fundamental to their core beliefs”.

    The current political shitfight in Labour would suggest not all lefties are “the intelligent, caring, compassionate, sensible ones”, and from my experience there are as many mixes of compassion amongst righties as amongst lefties.

    And too much compassion without enough realism and a certain degree of selfishness is not good anyway. If you love everyone unconditionally and give everyone the same unconditionally you’ll be shat on before you can say compa

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  63. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    full of smart, practical guys who were proposing to focus on really improving the environment for business and the parts of the welfare state that really matter, by radically shaking up tax, social spending, justice etc to cut waste and reduce the amount of frivolities to save taxpayer money by only doing the important stuff but doing it really well, and if they didn’t have any dicky social theories about religion or morality they wanted to impose, and they weren’t utterly corrupt and beholden to vested interests like trade unions, I’d probably support them.

    RRM,

    What I don’t get is that you say neither Labour nor National is it and yet, to me, you have just described the National Party (especially as it is today, under John Key. And as it will remain.)

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  64. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    From Twitter:
    Accidental genius behind Susan Boyle’s #susanalbumparty almost rivals the
    logo for UK’s Office of Government Commerce .

    They say the Boyle bum tag has been changed.

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  65. Reid (16,471 comments) says:

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-twinkie-that-broke-the-economys-back

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  66. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    Bhudson – National are an old party, with an old voter base, and traditions that dictate what they can and cannot do. They also have old baggage in the form of those who would just never in a million years vote national, even if they can’t say why.

    This would have to be an all-new party, with its own unique style. Namely:
    Here’s a 20-page prospectus of all our policies for what we’re going to cut and what we’re going to initiate. And we agree they’re quite radical, so to prove we’re not lunatics here’s three draft budgets we’ve already prepared to show how we’d fund it all assuming good, average or bad economic conditions.

    You could never start a new major party during competitive times when there’s a strong main opposition party. But Labour are such a joke at the moment that there may never be a better time…

    Pete George:
    I’m keen on the keyboard but hopeless on my feet or in giving rousing speeches to the public. Someone a bit more dynamic than RRM would be needed to get this thing off the ground…

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  67. questions (207 comments) says:

    David Garrett Says:

    “NO SENTENCE GIVEN BY A NEW ZEALAND COURT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS ”

    “And for completeness, the above is because of the Sentencing Act 2002, passed under Clark’s watch. That Act – now somewhat modified by three strikes – says that Judges MUST give the most lenient sentence possible in all the circumstances. And the Parole Act passed by the same government says the Parole Board must release him as soon as possible.”

    Aaaaaaaaaaaand any remaining credibility you had is gone…

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  68. Steve (North Shore) (4,563 comments) says:

    David G,
    Fletch educated me about this the other night

    RRM: No, that makes sense…and the short version is “Yes, some of those on the right – even the far right – have genuine concern for the poor and disadvantaged”….You just gave a much fuller answer!

    Let me ask you this then…again simply out of curiousity….do you believe Roger Douglas genuinely wanted to help poor people better their lot in life?

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  69. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Geez RRM, I suspect you’re right of me on the political spectrum.

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  70. David Garrett (7,289 comments) says:

    questions: OK, I’ll bite sonny…what part of that comment of mine is wrong…please do share with us…then when you have made a fool of yourself I will quote the relevant sections of the two Acts back to you….Go for it….

    Or did you deliberately leave out the bit which appeared BEFORE the bit in caps re non parole periods?

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  71. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    The Cohens were shown into the dentist’s office,
    where Mr. Cohen made it clear he was in a big hurry.

    “No fancy stuff, Doctor,” he ordered. “No gas or needles
    or any of that stuff. Just pull the tooth and get it over with.”

    “I wish more of my patients were as stoic as you,” said the
    dentist admiringly. “Now, which tooth is it?”

    Mr. Cohen turned to his wife…
    “Show him your tooth, Sarah.”

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  72. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    A ventriloquist is getting a few laughs with his tired old run of blonde jokes when a blonde woman in the fourth row stands and yells: “How dare you stereotype women that way! Guys like you do nothing but perpetuate discrimination against not just blondes but all women… You’re pathetic!”

    The ventriloquist is flustered. “Let me apologise… I had no intention of offending or discrimin…”

    The blonde lady cuts him short mid-sentence. “Stay out of this buster. I’m talking to that little twerp on your knee.”

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  73. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    Ahmed the Arab came to England from the Middle East and he was only there a few months when he became very ill.
    He went to doctor after doctor, but none of them could help him.
    Finally, he went to an Arab doctor who said: “Take dees bocket, go into de odder room, poop in de bocket, pee on de poop and den put your head down over de bocket and breathe in de fumes for ten minutes.”
    Ahmed took the bucket, went into the other room, pooped in the bucket, peed on the poop, bent over and breathed in the fumes for ten minutes.
    Coming back to the doctor he said, “It worked. I feel terrific! What was wrong with me?”
    The doctor said, “You were homesick!”

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  74. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    WHERE WOULD YOU BE:
    IF – YOU HAD ALL THE MONEY YOUR HEART DESIRES.
    IF – YOU HAD NO WORRIES.
    IF – YOU CAME HOME AND THE FINEST MEAL WAS AWAITING YOU.
    IF – YOUR BATH WATER HAD BEEN RUN.
    IF – YOU HAD THE PERFECT KIDS & PETS.

    IF – YOUR PARTNER WAS AWAITING YOU, WITH OPEN ARMS AND KISSES?
    SO, WHERE WOULD YOU BE ?
    Well……. HELLOOooo !!!!!!!
    You’d be at the

    WRONG FUCKIN’ HOUSE

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  75. nasska (11,525 comments) says:

    Not everyone hates Muslims.

    Mosquitoes find them very attractive.

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  76. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    Q: What do you ask a man who’s just converted to Islam?

    A: Have you started beating your wife?

    Q How many Muslims does it take to change a lightbulb?

    A: None, they prefer to sit in the dark and blame it on the Jews.

    Q: How do you get a Muslim woman pregnant?

    A: Dress her up as a goat.

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  77. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Aw griff, you just changed Cantabrians for Muslims!

    I liked the original version better!

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  78. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Fox news:
    Judge OKs Hostess’ plan to shut down http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/11/21/judge-oks-hostess-plan-to-shut-down/
    But Fox has got it covered for twinkie lovers: http://video.foxnews.com/v/1980801981001/make-your-own-twinkie

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  79. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8568831/long-jail-terms-for-brutal-pack-rape-duo

    Hefty prison terms have been handed down to two men involved in the pack rape of a woman who was snatched off an Auckland street.

    Abdinor Abdi, 29, and Mohamed Bashir, 25, were sentenced in the High Court at Auckland on Thursday to 16 and 15 years in prison respectively.

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  80. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Was she dressed as a goat Griff?

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  81. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    I tried to think of a smart comeback right now

    Stick the filthy fuckers on a plane back to the stinking pit of hell they or their ancestors came from.
    Then push them out at 10,000 feet

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  82. David Garrett (7,289 comments) says:

    Ah…no reply from the young dickhead who implied I was making it up about no sentence handed down in NZ (other than minimum non parole periods and 3S sentences) meaning what they say…perhaps Mickey or some other leftie lawyer has advised that a tactical withdrawal would be a wise course….

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  83. questions (207 comments) says:

    “NO SENTENCE GIVEN BY A NEW ZEALAND COURT MEANS WHAT IT SAYS ”

    They all do, every judge knows the parole system full well, everyone who bothers to familiarise them self with the absolute basics of the legal system knows full well that the number of years the judge says is subject to parole.

    When the judge says 16 or how ever many years, every body knows that is the maximum sentence, you would have to be deliberately ignorant, or intentionally leave off the rest of the sentence after the number of years to think anything else.

    “And for completeness, the above is because of the Sentencing Act 2002, passed under Clark’s watch. That Act – now somewhat modified by three strikes – says that Judges MUST give the most lenient sentence possible in all the circumstances. And the Parole Act passed by the same government says the Parole Board must release him as soon as possible.”

    Quite willing to quote legislation back to you, I presume you have a problem with the following; Paraole Act 2002, s 7 :

    Guiding principles
    (1)When making decisions about, or in any way relating to, the release of an offender, the paramount consideration for the Board in every case is the safety of the community.
    (2)Other principles that must guide the Board’s decisions are—
    (a)that offenders must not be detained any longer than is consistent with the safety of the community, and that they must not be subject to release conditions that are more onerous, or last longer, than is consistent with the safety of the community;

    That does not say they must release them as soon as possible, though you may be having trouble with logic.

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  84. MT_Tinman (3,187 comments) says:

    Griff (3,533) Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 9:22 pm
    I tried to think of a smart comeback right now

    Stick the filthy fuckers on a plane back to the stinking pit of hell they or their ancestors came from.
    Then push them out at 10,000 feet

    No, that would be cruel and inhumane.

    Make the bastards walk back.

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