General Debate 3 November 2012

November 3rd, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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124 Responses to “General Debate 3 November 2012”

  1. southtop (257 comments) says:

    Come on …up and at em!

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  2. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/mps-expenses/9651978/MPs-expenses-scandal-Denis-MacShane-resigns.html#dsq-comments

    This boy needs to go on tour – he makes our MP’s look totally enept when it comes to stealing off the public purse

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  3. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    For my mate Red :)

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  4. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Family “business”: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/7901337/Cousin-takes-trusts-reins-from-Sir-Ngatata

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  5. mikenmild (8,790 comments) says:

    Yes Manolo, coz the trust should really elect someone who is not related at all…

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  6. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    The largesse (with public funds) continues:
    The Crown has confirmed a cash top-up payment of $138.5 million will be paid to Ngai Tahu and Waikato-Tainui, following confirmation treaty settlements have exceeded the $1 billion mark.

    Both iwi negotiated a special relativity mechanism with the Crown as part of their Treaty of Waitangi settlements.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10844813

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  7. Viking2 (10,712 comments) says:

    So the Employment Authority now consider that theft as a servant is no longer grounds for a dismissal.

    Not sure what planet these highly paid willy washers at ERA come from but stealing is stealing, is against the law and every other code other than a crims.

    Disgraceful ruling and made worse by then insulting the employer with a requirement to pay the employee.

    Ficking idiots in the zoo.
    time this waste of space and money was canned forever. (of course Kate won’t even notice and if the silly tart does she will no doubt defend the useless authority member who made this ruling.

    Gee’s do we ever need a reall right wing Govt. with this crap floating in the sewer of socilism.

    But Mr Chan remained concerned about the operation and decided to call in a private investigator.

    He suspended Ms Tiller in December 2007 and tried to arrange a meeting with her, but when she did not reply he dismissed her in a letter in early January 2008.

    ERA member Eleanor Robinson found the company had grounds to dismiss Ms Tiller but Mr Chan did not follow procedure. The ERA declined compensation, but found Ms Tiller was owed $3702.20 in unpaid wages and holiday pay.

    ———-Her name is in the article if you want to know who this upholder of the commandment :” thou shalt not steal” is.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10844821

    Of course its the process again.

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  8. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Who am I?

    I was born in one country, raised in another. My father was born in another country. I was not his only child. He fathered several children with numerous women. I became very close to my mother, as my father showed no interest in me.

    My mother died at an early age from cancer. Later in life, questions arose over my real name. My birth records were sketchy and no one was able to produce a legitimate,reliable birth certificate.

    I grew up practicing one faith but converted to Christianity, as it was widely accepted in my country, but I practiced non-traditional beliefs & didn’t follow Christianity, except in the public eye under scrutiny. I worked and lived among lower-class people as a young adult, disguising myself as someone who really cared about them. That was before I decided it was time to get serious about my life and I embarked on a new career. I wrote a book about my struggles growing up.

    It was clear to those who read my memoirs that I had difficulties accepting that my father abandoned me as a child. I became active in local politics in my 30′s then with secret help, I literally burst onto the scene as a candidate for national office in my 40s. They said I had a golden tongue and could talk anyone into anything. That reinforced my conceit.

    I had a virtually non-existent resume, little work history, and no experience in leading a single organization. Yet I was a powerful speaker and citizens were drawn to me as though I were a magnet and they were small roofing tacks. I drew incredibly large crowds during my public appearances. This bolstered my ego.

    At first, my political campaign focused on my country’s foreign policy. I was very critical of my country in the last war and seized ever opportunity to bash it. But what launched my rise to national prominence were my views on the country’s economy. I pretended to have a really good plan on how we could do better and every poor person would be fed & housed for free. I knew which group was responsible for getting us into this mess: it was the free market, banks & corporations.

    I decided to start making citizens hate them and if they were envious of others who did well, the plan was clinched tight. I called mine “A People’s Campaign” and that sounded good to all. I was the surprise candidate because I emerged from outside the traditional path of politics & was able to gain widespread popular support.

    I knew that if I merely offered the people ‘hope’, together we could change our country and the world. So, I started to make my speeches sound like they were on behalf of the downtrodden, poor, ignorant to include “persecuted minorities” like the Jews & Blacks. My true views were not widely known & I needed to keep them unknown, until after I became my nation’s leader. I had to carefully guard reality, as anybody could have easily found out what I truly believed, if they had simply read my writings and examined those people I associated with. I’m glad they didn’t. Then I became the most powerful man in the world. And the world learned the truth. WHO AM I ? ……….

    The answer: ADOLF HITLER…Of whom were you thinking?

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  9. wreck1080 (3,522 comments) says:

    OK having tried windows 8 for a few days now, I’ve decided I don’t like it.

    It is schizophrenic. I’ll open the metro mail app, but can’t easily exit it. There is no close control.

    I figured out I can use alt-f4, but, shouldn’t it be more intuitive than this?

    I’m tired of getting stuck into some ‘metro app’ without an easy way of using the mouse to close it. You can click in the corner to switch back to the start screen but the metro app is still open and sometimes steals the dislay when working on normal things.

    The ‘desktop’ mode of windows 8 seems to work ok , except it is necessary to use metro to find apps. I just can’t stand the way metro steals the entire display.

    I can manage myself around the interface quirks, but, trying to explain this to the other half is impossible. She keeps getting stuck inside metro. I guess it would be ok with a touchscreen, but maddening with just a mouse & keyboard. I cannot see the corporate market adopting metro.

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  10. Paulus (2,296 comments) says:

    Wreck1080

    Me too – so have stayed with tried and true XP.
    Even crashed my @ key to ”
    It drove me nuts – even more so, says my wife.
    I like a simple life not with Windows 8.
    It is too far beyond my eyes – and I started dealing with infernal calculating machines in the late 1960s – remember IBM 360-125 and Honeywell 2050.
    Money not well spent – very difficult to take off and ressurect to XP – needed professional advice.

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  11. Pete George (21,806 comments) says:

    David Shearer’s latest weekly newsletter is inspirational. Could this be a turning point in his leadership?

    National is driving down wages and taking this country into decline. I have a very different vision for NZ. We need to change. We need to build wealth on the back of innovation and hard work so everyone benefits. That’s the way of the future under Labour.

    Warm regards,
    David Shearer
    Leader of the Labour Party

    Terminal decline for Labour if this mind numbing mediocre mumbling continues, oblivious to the near universal yawns? David Shzzzzzzzzz…

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  12. Stamper (30 comments) says:

    Loopey Len’s next job:

    Given that only two Brown men and a dog will vote for Loopey next year,
    I have found him an ideal job.

    He can move to Mangawhai Heads and use the miles of empty formed roads
    [originally to house the 1,000's moving from Auckland to the area]
    to build a V8 Supercar Racing Track.

    Further good news for Len is that all these empty roads already have sewage connections; so his V8 crowds will no longer have the unpleasant experience of having to use temporary Port-o-Loos.

    If the residents of Mangawhai Heads think they currently have problems at least they will know that Loopey will entertain them with shows such as:
    Mary Poppins; Little Shop of Horrors; One Man Two Guvnors; etc etc.
    In fact we will also throw in ATEED as part of the “Loopey Package”

    This level of entertainment will be great for the Rate Payers of Mangawhai,
    as their current debts will just pale into insignificance as Loopey rev’s up ATEED to full speed ahead aboard the V8s and other circuses.

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  13. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Thanks Manolo..I knew it wasn’t Obi about half way thru because there was no mention of going to Pakistan on an American passport underh yet another name..
    For the record , when exactly did Barry Soetoro became Barrack Obama??

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  14. RightNow (6,338 comments) says:

    wreck1080 & paulus – same here. I’m only running a trial version (in a virtual machine) but I can’t see myself giving up Windows 7 for Windows 8.

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  15. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Vote Yes on Proposition 37

    The chemical manufacturers who want to hook the world on GMO food tell people that GMOs will help the plight of Third Word farmers.

    This has proven to be nothing but a lie.

    Farmers in India who adopted GMO cotton have been bankrupted by the tens of thousands. (Google: Indian farmer suicides for the details.)

    But the damage GMO crops inflicts is even more severe.

    In remote places where farm workers are forced to live on GMO corn, they literally sicken and die as do the cattle they are hired to tend.

    Make them label GMOs in food in California, in the US and all across the world

    http://www.therealfoodchannel.com/videos/gmos-genetically-modified-food-1/helping-the-third-world.html

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  16. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “This boy needs to go on tour – he makes our MP’s look totally enept when it comes to stealing off the public purse”

    This guy may have been bad but he was probably jealous of former New Jersey Governor John Corazine who stole hundreds of millions. Chris Christie just managed to stop another flow of mismanaged cash reaching Corazines mates when Christie won the governorship

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  17. flipper (3,269 comments) says:

    Oh dear.

    It is Saturday and the Herald has dragged out its loopy scribe to pontificate (my sincere apologies to the Vatican) on the link[sic] between the changing climate and storms/disasters (reference Sandy).

    Good Lord. Do they really believe that rubbish?

    Please Granny Herald (or your illegitimate off-spring), before you editorialise again on the idiosyncrasies of earth’s ever changing climate, please, please, study the data (not the politicised, government-employee, “research grant” and politician driven, nonsense that is noteworthy for outlandish, futuristic doom-casting, that suggests (those model inputs yet again) just “could be, may be, possible, precautionary, must act now claims”) and produce some evidence for your assertions. And if you think all of that is a mouthful, TRY eating the IPCC’s bullshit. Vomit assured.

    Oh by the way: There is no evidence whatsoever of any link/causation between “natural” disasters and the evolutionary (back and forth) nature (no pun) of the changes in climate.

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  18. Fletch (5,720 comments) says:

    Good to see that the Mayor in New York has his priorities right …. not.

    While people are starving, dying – dumpster diving for food in Staten Island (one of the places hardest hit by Hurricane Sandy), resources are being concentrated on the New York Marathon.

    The residents of Staten Island are pleading for help from elected officials, begging for gasoline, food and clothing three days after Sandy slammed the New York City borough.

    “We’re going to die! We’re going to freeze! We got 90-year-old people!” Donna Solli told visiting officials. “You don’t understand. You gotta get your trucks down here on the corner now. It’s been three days!”

    Staten Island was one of the hardest-hit communities in New York City. More than 80,000 residents are still without power. Many are homeless, and at least 19 people died on Staten Island because of the storm.

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/11/were-going-to-die-staten-island-residents-plead-for-help-3-days-after-sandy/

    As hundreds of thousands of Big Apple residents suffer in homes left without power by Hurricane Sandy, two massive generators are being run 24/7 in Central Park — to juice a media tent for Sunday’s New York City Marathon.

    And a third “backup” unit sits idle, in case one of the generators fails.

    The three diesel-powered generators crank out 800 kilowatts — enough to power 400 homes in ravaged areas like Staten Island, the Rockaways and downtown Manhattan.

    As of Friday morning, five generators sat outside of the park along with electrical stations and transformers.

    In addition to the generators, a food services truck dropped off hundreds of cases of water, sparking angered responses from hurricane victims.

    “I am from Coney Island where everything is flooded and underwater,” Yelena Gomelsky, 65, said. “I live 1 block from the ocean where everything is floating. “[Seeing the generators and water] makes me feel so bad. People have no food, no water, nothing.

    “They should make all of these runners bring food and water to people’s houses who need it. They should bring all of these generators to buildings where old people live and give them power.”

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/this_is_no_way_to_get_us_up_running_egrMk4ukpzFCGhSF8oM5kN

    It’s criminal…

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  19. tom hunter (4,004 comments) says:

    on the link[sic] between the changing climate and storms/disasters.

    A quick check of their website reveals no reporting on the link between incompetence and the disaster that’s now unfolding across New Jersey and New York City as people face their third day without power. I’d have thought that the video (carried by an MSM network in the US) of people dumpster diving for food, would have been news fodder.

    But no! Like Mayor Bloomberg it’s necessary to focus on vast, vaporous solutions for AGW and obesity rather than mundane things like building decent seawalls. I saw that the The Big Gulp endorsed Obama the other day. As this weekend unfolds I’d be willing to bet Obama could wish that one away.

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  20. flipper (3,269 comments) says:

    Fletch et al..
    Sponsors have sensibly pulled the plug on the NY marathon. Cancelled a few minutes ago.

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  21. Fletch (5,720 comments) says:

    flipper, good!

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  22. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    Those who fondly hallucinate that the remarkably counter-productive US foreign and domestic policies conducted over decades since Bush 41 which collectively has seen the economy destroyed, the manufacturing base offshored and the world on the brink of war are just mere incompetence, might like to remember this quote James Forrestal made to Joe McCarthy in 1946:

    McCarthy, consistency has never been a mark of stupidity. If they were merely stupid they would occasionally make a mistake in our favor.

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  23. tom hunter (4,004 comments) says:

    Good news on the marathon cancellation indeed, but it begs the question. How out of touch with the situation are NYC officials, starting with the Mayor, that they kept pushing forward with this over the last few days?

    Actually I wonder if the best thing Obama could do is what Bush did after the Boxing Day Tsunami: send a couple of nuclear aircraft carriers. They can easily park in NYC harbour to supply water, medical backup, airlift capacity and so forth?

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  24. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Bereal,
    A few days back you were wanting the mother of JJ to get charged. More recently , I read that she is pregnant to the monster who murdered her son..I don’t think she should be allowed to keep this child given the poor job she did in protecting her poor son..I agree with whoever else was commenting that there is is one justice system for males..and one for females..but you could also extend this idea out to cover all the other discrepancies in the system.

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  25. RightNow (6,338 comments) says:

    So I’ve been told by many an alarmist that storms like Sandy are an inevitable consequence of climate change. You’d think then that they would have foreseen years ago that the subways could be flooded with seawater. So what preparations were made to mitigate against this supposed inevitability? Because clearly they weren’t sufficient.

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  26. Stamper (30 comments) says:

    @ flipper (1,071) Says:
    November 3rd, 2012 at 10:30 am

    re Granny Herald
    Absolutely correct Flipper; even quoted the lowlife Salinger.

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  27. tom hunter (4,004 comments) says:

    I wonder of the Herald would like to print the following chart, which uses NOAA data (dating from 1851) to run a plot of hurricanes making landfall in the USA vs. increasing CO2 concentration over the decades.

    It looks like the hockeystick – in reverse.

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  28. wat dabney (3,450 comments) says:

    “While it’s hardly mentioned in the media, the U.S. is currently in an extended and intense hurricane “drought.” The last Category 3 or stronger storm to make landfall was Wilma in 2005. The more than seven years since then is the longest such span in over a century.

    If Sandy causes $20 billion in damage (in 2012 dollars), it would rank as the 17th most damaging hurricane or tropical storm (out of 242) to hit the U.S. since 1900-a significant event, but not close to the top 10. The Great Miami Hurricane of 1926 tops the list (according to estimates by the catastrophe-insurance provider ICAT), as it would cause $180 billion in damage if it were to strike today. Hurricane Katrina ranks fourth at $85 billion.

    Flood damage has decreased as a proportion of the economy since reliable records were first kept by the National Weather Service in the 1930s, and there is no evidence of increasing extreme river floods. Historic tornado damage (adjusted for changing levels of development) has decreased since 1950, paralleling a dramatic reduction in casualties. Although the tragic impacts of tornadoes in 2011 (including 553 confirmed deaths) were comparable only to those of 1953 and 1964, such tornado impacts were far more common in the first half of the 20th century.”

    http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=bc650add-c3bc-67af-2aaf-792934d3f530

    “What If People Were As Stupid In 1886 As They Are Now?”

    In 1886, the US was hit by an incredible seven hurricanes, including two major hurricanes.

    http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/11/01/what-if-people-were-as-stupid-in-1886-as-they-are-now/

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  29. tom hunter (4,004 comments) says:

    You’d think then that they would have foreseen years ago that the subways could be flooded with seawater.

    I made that point to Griff as we were watching Sandy spin up via Brendan Loy’s blog, about the epilogue of the book Issac’s Storm, published in 2000. It referenced a 1995 report from the US Army Corps of Engineers that had analysed 19th century hurricanes hitting the North East coast of the US, as well as The Long Island Express of 1938 and the dozen of so that whacked those areas in the 1950′s. The report concluded that it was bound to happen again and that if a storm hit NYC from the right direction it could easily flood the subways and many parts of the city. They recommended strengthened, higher seawalls as a simple and relatively cheap solution.

    Now you can whack every political leader of New York State, NYC, and the Federal government, for not acting on the report since then. That’s human nature. The same thing happened in Galveston where a seawall was proposed in the 1890′s and the proposal defeated: 7,000-12,000 deaths later they finally built one, which saved their asses in 1915. But Bloomberg has made an absolute meal out of AGW, which places special emphasis on the question that should be put to him: why did you not do anything practical.

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  30. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    tom hunter, How many times do you have to be told ?

    You can not prove anything with real world measurements, data and observation. You are not smart enough to rely on facts.

    In order for that “raw” information to become science, it must first be turned into a MODEL on a computer and interpreted by special people called “climate scientists” (Weathermen)

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  31. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    But Bloomberg has made an absolute meal out of AGW, which places special emphasis on the question that should be put to him: why did you not do anything practical.

    Easy to answer that Tom. He did nothing because he does not believe in catastrophic AGW. You really don’t think he is that silly, do you?

    He is simply playing politics to remain in power.

    Broadly speaking there are two types of climate alarmists. The ignorant and the evil. The ignorant mean well, but lack knowledge. That makes up the largest group. The second group know that AGW is bullshit, but promote it for political reasons.

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  32. thedavincimode (6,114 comments) says:

    Kea

    That was a nice thought for the old dear, but as it happens, he’s already onto it with some slight modification of the wording:

    “theRedbaiteru Akbar” – recited FOUR times.

    “Ash-hadu an la ilaha ill-theRedbaiter” – recited TWO times.

    “Ash-hadu anna KrisK-ar RasooltheRedbaiterullah” – recited TWO times.

    “Hayya theRedbaiter” – recited TWO times.

    “theRedbaiteru Akbar” – recited TWO times.

    “Ass-kissu theRedbaiter khairum minannaum” – recited Two times.

    ”La ilaha illtheRedbaiter”

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  33. Ross12 (927 comments) says:

    Here’s a very rational opinion piece on Sandy and how it relates to previous weather events

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204840504578089413659452702.html?mod=WSJ_article_comments#articleTabs%3Dcomments

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  34. Scott Chris (5,677 comments) says:

    So the Employment Authority now consider that theft as a servant is no longer grounds for a dismissal.

    No. If you read the article properly:

    ERA member Eleanor Robinson found the company had grounds to dismiss Ms Tiller but Mr Chan did not follow procedure. The ERA declined compensation, but found Ms Tiller was owed $3702.20 in unpaid wages and holiday pay.

    But I agree that it seems odd that the money she owed wasn’t offset by the money owed her. Probably something to do with the ERA’s powers of jurisdiction.

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  35. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    thedavincimode, I like it :)

    Red will be pleased to hear you honour him like that.

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  36. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Awesome post on Staten Island Fletch

    Something Alex Jones should be reporting

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  37. gazzmaniac (2,268 comments) says:

    Fletch, tom hunter, flipper etc
    What do you tell the people who have traveled from all over the world to be there, that there will now be no marathon? Some of those people will have spent a large amount of time saving to be there, and it would have been a once in a lifetime event for them.

    I think the marathon should go on if it is possible to do so.

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  38. Bill (19 comments) says:

    WINZ Kiosks,
    If you see that the office door is not locked, and you go in and take boxes of files, is that stealing?

    Because that is what he did!

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  39. noskire (797 comments) says:

    The New York Marathon hasn’t been cancelled – just changed to a triathlon.

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  40. Scott Chris (5,677 comments) says:

    It looks like the hockeystick – in reverse.

    Crikey Tom, you gettin’ dizzy with all that spinning? Bottom line: that dataset is misleading and doesn’t fit the correct narrative ;)

    Here’s something that does though.

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  41. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    The campaign should muzzle the buffoon: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/biden-theres-never-been-day-last-four-years-ive-been-proud-be-his-vice-president_660130.html

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  42. Fletch (5,720 comments) says:

    gazz, so it’s an inconvenience for some people. I get that. But don’t people’s lives take precedence after a disaster?
    Just imagine if after the Christchurch earthquake, Bob Parker had said that cleanup must be stopped because resources were being diverted to a marathon or something.

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  43. gazzmaniac (2,268 comments) says:

    Fletch – if it was possible to host the world cup games I am sure they would have.
    It’s a bit different if there’s an accommodation shortage and the stadium’s broken.

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  44. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Even the Aussies are parroting Al Gore’s line: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/sandy-worsened-by-climate-change-report/story-e6frfku9-1226509537406

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  45. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    Manolo- Who am I? at 9:08 is brilliant!

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  46. tom hunter (4,004 comments) says:

    … that dataset is misleading ….

    That dataset is from NOAA – and it’s a bit of fun laying on the Al Gore causality thinking applied to graphs.

    In any case I do appreciate the shifting goalposts that claim that AGW is making hurricanes more intense, even if they’re not making landfall as frequently. Another one of those tough-to-falsify claims.

    Incidently, for all the talk about Sandy regaining its strength over a patch of warm water in the Atlantic, I’ve seen little mention of what was pointed out a week ago by forecasters; that what would make this storm special was the cold coming down from the north and wrapping itself around the core of Sandy. And of course that has also been seen before, in the so-called Perfect Storm on Halloween 1991, which was one of the main reasons Loy was keeping such a close eye on Sandy.

    What do you tell the people who have traveled from all over the world to be there, that there will now be no marathon?

    Seriously?

    Well if I felt inclined to respond to such a question from those people, I would explain to them – as one would to a small child or a Golden Retriever – that there are bigger things at stake here than a fucking marathon!

    But you were just taking the piss, no?

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  47. wreck1080 (3,522 comments) says:

    Went to the Warehouse with little Miss 7 to buy some fireworks.

    Little miss 7 picks up a box of fireworks to help me carry them to the checkout.

    Angry pimply faced warehouse staff member immediately comes running up and remonstrates “we do not allow under 18′s to carry fireworks”

    I’ve never heard such stupidity for a long time. Is there some law against this? Is there some danger that 7 year olds cause boxed fireworks to spontaneously combust?

    For what reason could the Warehouse have such a rule?

    I rarely visit the warehouse since they started charging for bags. But after last years fireworks purchased from a temporary roadside stall largely turned out to be duds, thought i’d make a rare exception.

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  48. gazzmaniac (2,268 comments) says:

    wreck – you do know that if your house burns down and the insurance assessor finds evidence that there were fireworks on the premises then you don’t get paid out.

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  49. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    ‘I have my own army in the NYPD – the seventh largest army in the world’: Bloomberg’s bizarre boast about city’s police force

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2068428/Bloomberg-I-army-NYPD-State-Department-New-York-City.html

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  50. mikenmild (8,790 comments) says:

    The link between climate change and specific hurricane patterns is probably irrelevant. Any large-scale disaster is likely to prompt all sorts of speculations.
    Luckily for us we have tom hunter with an actual science degree to tell us why thousands of climatologists are so wrong about anthropogenic global warming.

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  51. tom hunter (4,004 comments) says:

    Luckily for us we have tom hunter with an actual science degree …

    An insult never works as well when it’s just repeated – so I’ll just repeat what I said the other night when you used it the first time …

    Meeee… Yowww. As opposed to all the liberal arts graduates who dumped math and science when they were 14 because “it didn’t float my boat” (i.e. they couldn’t do it), but who now lap this stuff up and run around telling people like me that “you don’t understand the science”.

    However, that response does sum up one of the standard left-wing approaches to almost any such argument: that qualifications and expertise count for all and more importantly, that one must not question your betters – until they start promulgating a cause the left objects to, like nuclear power or genetic modification. In those cases it’s any skeptic to hand and bugger the personal credentials.

    1960′s Mikenmild: Question Authority

    2012 Mikenmild: Obey Authority

    How far the Left have fallen.

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  52. Viking2 (10,712 comments) says:

    Scott Chris (4,579) Says:
    November 3rd, 2012 at 11:44 am

    So the Employment Authority now consider that theft as a servant is no longer grounds for a dismissal.

    No. If you read the article properly:

    ERA member Eleanor Robinson found the company had grounds to dismiss Ms Tiller but Mr Chan did not follow procedure. The ERA declined compensation, but found Ms Tiller was owed $3702.20 in unpaid wages and holiday pay.

    But I agree that it seems odd that the money she owed wasn’t offset by the money owed her. Probably something to do with the ERA’s powers of jurisdiction.

    Chidiot.
    Stealing from your employer is inexcuseable and being forced to defend yourself against a theif and criminal is the kind of shit socialists think acceptable. Well its not. Instant dismissal is the remedy and being charged with theft is.
    Getting paid compensation for committing the theft that endangered the company is outragous, and even more so when she was given a chance to redeem herself.

    Using the excuse of process wehn that gulity party didn’t even bother to front up is appalling.

    If yopu don’t know the difference between honesty and theft and that theft is criminal then you are rooted in the head. Like so many stupid fucking socialists.

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  53. mikenmild (8,790 comments) says:

    I was quite obedient in the late sixties according to the kindy teacher. I have learned to question over time, as I’m sure you will be thrilled to learn. I no longer believe it was a great idea to have the Springboks over for tea in 1981. I was excited by the election of the Labour Ggvernments in 1984 and 1999 and by the outcome of the 2008 election. I’m probably getting more conservative as I rapidly decline toward senescence, but I’d like to think I have a few marbles left that can rattle around in a reasonably rational matter.
    So, sceptical of osteopaths, herbal remedies, magnetic underlays and the ability of groups of politicians to achieve meaningful changes, but prepared to consider arguments on their merits so long as they don’t scream ‘conspiracy theory’.

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  54. Viking2 (10,712 comments) says:

    Fuck witted policemen.

    It has taken 20 months for the father to be able to walk free from court.

    Daniell-Smith said: “It has been an extremely costly exercise in emotion and money for no result at all. The only people to benefit out of it are the lawyers.”

    “One of the children thought he was dead, and another was trying to get lemons to make lemonade to pay to get her father back from the police,” she said. “I don’t think I can ever trust the police again.

    WHAT HAPPENED

    January 3 and 4 2011: Family visit McKee Domain, Ruby Bay, along with 300 others. Other visitors allege inappropriate behaviour between father and daughter, report to caretaker who calls police. Constable arrives and father denies any wrongdoing.

    March 24: Police arrive at family home with search warrant for shirt and dress. Father taken to Motueka police station, arrested for indecent assault on 10-year-old daughter.

    March 25: Father appears in court, bailed with conditions not to contact family.

    June 21: Father’s lawyer Brett Daniell-Smith applies for an oral evidence order to hear evidence of witnesses.

    July: Lawyer asks police to review decision to charge father. Detective Sergeant Craig Johnston responds that police have six credible accounts of indecent behaviour and he believes the father has been correctly charged.

    August 29: Judge Ellis grants an oral evidential order for three defence witnesses, bail conditions relaxed but father not allowed home.

    September 29: After eight months father gets 1 hours of supervised contact with two younger daughters.

    November 25: Oral evidence called at committal hearing at Nelson District Court. JPs rule there is no case to answer and discharge father.

    March 7 2012: Police apply to the High Court at Nelson to re-lay charges, arguing the JPs have exceeded their function.

    April 16: Application heard, Justice Miller agrees that the JPs were wrong and trial date set for October.

    July 11: Judge Bruce Davidson declines application from father’s lawyer for a discharge, saying it is up to a jury to decide.

    October: Jury trial, Crown re-lays charge with eight counts of indecent assault. After the father has given evidence, the father’s lawyer applies for him to be discharged saying there is insufficient evidence, and the identity of the complainant in each charge is uncertain. The trial is halted and none of the defence witnesses called. Judge Behrens discharges the father.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7903165/Loving-dads-year-of-torment

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  55. Scott Chris (5,677 comments) says:

    Viking, did you actually read what I wrote or what the article said ya bonehead?

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  56. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Staten Island Borough President: Don’t Give Money to the Red Cross

    At a press conference this morning on Staten Island, a host of local officials, including Senators Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand, gathered to highlight the needs of the hard-hit borough in the aftermath of Hurricane Sandy. And, although many pols spoke, no one was more impassioned than Borough President James Molinaro, who called the Red Cross an “absolute disgrace” and even urged the public to cease giving them contributions.

    http://politicker.com/2012/11/staten-island-borough-president-dont-give-money-to-the-red-cross/

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  57. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    A Sheep No More
    Assad bans GMOs in food ‘to preserve the health of human beings’
    DAMASCUS — Agence France-Presse

    President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, where more than 33,000 people have been killed in 19 months of conflict, issued a law on GM food Thursday to preserve human life, state-run SANA news agency reported.

    Assad, whose forces are locked in a bloody confrontation with armed rebels opposed to his rule, “has approved a law on the health security of genetically modified organisms… to regulate their use and production,” SANA reported.

    The law is meant “to preserve the health of human beings, animals, vegetables and the environment,” the agency added.

    Violence in Syria has killed at least 33,000 people, most of them civilians, since it erupted in March last year, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights says.

    The revolt began as pro-reform protests but morphed into an armed insurgency when demonstrations were brutally crushed, with some 100 dead each day.

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/assad-bans-gmos-in-food-to-preserve-the-health-of-human-beings/article4620664/

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  58. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Viking2 , that is business as usual at the Court.

    Women in Saudi Arabia have more equality, under the law, than men do in NZ today.

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  59. mikenmild (8,790 comments) says:

    This bigger the lie; the more likely it is to be said by who?

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  60. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    @ Kea

    you would have bought a tear to D4J’s eye !!

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  61. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    hinamanu, Its a fact. I work “in the system” and see this shit all the time. Our society is dominated by the most extreme and vile feminist doctrine.

    Many folk , like Redbaiter, do not understand the relationship between cultural marxism and the feminist movement. Most of our social engineering has been driven by women. Under Clark, every key position in the country was held by a woman. Their extreme doctrine has infested our laws and society to a frightening degree.

    This is not about equality, it is about dominance. It is NOT the fault of the women. It IS the fault of weak and spineless Kiwi men. No wonder Kiwi women regard Kiwi men with open contempt and are the most angry disaffected women on the planet. You can rest assured their sisters in Saudi Arabia are much happier. The truth hurts, don’t it ?

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  62. wat dabney (3,450 comments) says:

    mm,

    Luckily for us we have tom hunter with an actual science degree to tell us why thousands of climatologists are so wrong about anthropogenic global warming.

    What global warming are you talking about?

    Children finishing school about now have experienced no warming in their entire lives.

    So, again, what global warming are you talking about?

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  63. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Luckily for us we have tom hunter with an actual science degree to tell us why thousands of climatologists are so wrong about anthropogenic global warming.

    Perhaps I can help clear this up.

    It is not tom hunter who is telling us the climatologists are wrong. It is the thermometers.

    When we have a man made computer model and a thermometer, giving different readings, logic dictates that the model is wrong. We do not re-calibrate the thermometer to suit the model or simply ignore the actual measurements.

    Models are not measurements. They are man made theoretical structures. Thermometers do measure what is real. You can pop down the Warehouse and spend $5 on a device that is 100% accurate and reliable at measuring climate change. Much cheaper than a million dollar computer. (To be fair, you can have that paid for by the multi billion dollar AGW industry)

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  64. Rufus (606 comments) says:

    Viking 2:29. just read that story. Was going to post on it, but you beat me to it.

    Disgraceful.

    The poor guy will have this hanging over his head for the rest of his life.

    He can only have supervised visits with his daughters!!!

    And no skin off any copper’s nose. They can arrest, charge and harass with impunity – in the process completely mucking up a whole family’s life.

    Stories like this make my blood boil. You expect that in crazy countries like the UK or USA, not NZ.

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  65. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Is it Miss Dim? http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8558731/arrest-at-anti-asset-sales-protest

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  66. mikenmild (8,790 comments) says:

    Kea
    Does that mean all I need to do is look at the Galileo thermometer in my house to draw inferences about climate changes on a global scale? If tom has a thermometer too, will we be able to compare readings and prove those pesky climatologist wrong?

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  67. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    mikenmild, Yes I guess so.

    After all, the climate alarmists were happy to use hurricane Sandy, an isolated weather event, in support of their doomsday cult.

    So you can use the Galileo thermometer in your house to do the same, no problem.

    You could even make a model/computer simulation, to predict the temperature at 6:25 pm on Tuesday. Then you can have fun comparing the actual measurement with your prediction. :)

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  68. Viking2 (10,712 comments) says:

    Scott Chris (4,580) Says:
    November 3rd, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Viking, did you actually read what I wrote or what the article said ya bonehead?

    Um yes. She was a theif. end of story. She deserved sacking end of story. She did not deserve any other process other than to go to JAIL for theft as a servant End of story. BUT the blackmail dept. of the Employment Authoirity decided that they would punish the employer for booting her arse out the fucking door.(as he should do. ) the worst about this is that too many employers don’t and slags like that one escape to repeat their theiving because no record exists of her stealing.
    Its like rewarding a badly behaving kid and saying its all ok.
    Well its not and if you are so stupid you think so and are happy to endorse shit like that you need a big lesson in ethics and morals including.
    “Thou shalt not steal” The Muslims might have the right answer. Chop her hands off.

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  69. mikenmild (8,790 comments) says:

    Well that’s cool. My thermometer is actually only good for confirming what I already know, that it’s a bit colder than yesterday. But do you really think the ‘climate alarmists’ are one unified group of people who all think that one particular hurricane tells us anything about global warming?

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  70. mikenmild (8,790 comments) says:

    Ahhh, chardonnay o’clock.

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  71. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7903482/High-profile-lawyer-Greg-King-found-dead

    Fuck

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  72. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    But do you really think the ‘climate alarmists’ are one unified group of people who all think that one particular hurricane tells us anything about global warming?

    They are one unified group, in the sense that they all get funding based on the AGW myth.

    There are those who do not agree, but they are marginalised and ostracised, not for reasons of science, but because they put all those billions of dollars in research funding at risk.

    How are things going with your “model” building ? Maybe you could build one to predict future events of other complex and poorly understood systems riddled with unknown variables. Economics is a good example and not nearly as hard as climate to predict. You could become a very very rich man. No doubt you will use all that wealth to help the needy, like a good socialist would.

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  73. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    No more FES.

    RIP Greg.

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  74. SGA (518 comments) says:

    @PEB 5:37pm

    Agree – and with a young family.

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  75. mikenmild (8,790 comments) says:

    That is bad news indeed.

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  76. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    tom hunter (3,792) Says:
    November 3rd, 2012 at 11:10 am
    I wonder of the Herald would like to print the following chart, which uses NOAA data (dating from 1851) to run a plot of hurricanes making landfall in the USA vs. increasing CO2 concentration over the decades.

    It looks like the hockeystick – in reverse.

    It would take a bit of digging to see if the graph accurately reflects reality. We know the denialist websites regularly just invent facts to suit the reality they would prefer.

    However, the main takeaway I would like to point out is that this graph, even if accurate, only tells part of a complex story.

    So to give an accurate reflection of reality, the chart would need to show ALL hurricanes, not just the ones that made landfall, because whether a hurricane makes landfall, and more particularly, makes landfall in the US is a lottery.

    I remember stats from a couple of years or so ago where there was a record hurricane season in the Atlantic but none made landfall in the US. And of course,data on the hurricanes that make landfall elsewhere is also excluded in that chart.

    In addition, hurricanes these days tend to dump more rain, on average, because humans have caused the water vapour content to increase by 4%. It may not sound like much but as we have seen in NYC, in some circumstances it matters a great deal.

    So, you know, good try, Tom, but your chart is just batshit crazy propaganda masquerading as science.

    People interested in the good oil should visit: http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/

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  77. SGA (518 comments) says:

    @Reid
    Really – FES?

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  78. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Re Greg King

    That’s really sad.

    But how do we know he was FES?

    This is a strange community at times.

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  79. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    I may be wrong, I got that from offline conversations with some of the people on here.

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  80. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    What is “FES” ?

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  81. nasska (9,502 comments) says:

    Reid

    It has been mooted but FES strongly denied it at the time.

    Kea

    F E Smith is the pseudonym of a lawyer who comments here from time to time.

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  82. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Thanks nasska, I have seen his comments.

    I guess we will know now.

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  83. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    The nefarious influence of some unions: http://www.foxbusiness.com/government/2012/11/02/union-red-tape-in-nj-causes-alabama-recovery-crew-to-head-home/

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  84. Dubcek (2 comments) says:

    DVM, as you are defending your beliefs in your own name, I take it you are da Vinci, aka The Vince, an Italian. Never EVER say ‘Prague’. But seriously, is the PM white anted by commos?

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  85. F E Smith (3,273 comments) says:

     One often sees Fox News being rubbished as being horribly biased by the left and even a fair number of those who place themsleves (often wrongly) on the right, but an interesting survey by Pew is out, commented on by a columnist in the Baltimore Sun and linked to by Drudge:

    In writing about the Pew study released today, I was struck by the big story of how negative coverage on several levels of presidential politics had become.

    I think this is big trouble for democracy, especially the hostile level of discourse in social media. And that it’s something the media need to address collectively after the election.

    But here’s one of several fascinating smaller findings of the study that are kind of stunning — even if they seem obvious and ho-hum to some of my more jaded, postmodern, aren’t-we-cleverly-ironic colleagues:

    ON MSNBC, the ratio of negative to positive stories on GOP candidate Mitt Romney was 71 to 3.

    That’s not a news channel. That’s a propaganda machine, and owner Comcast should probably change Phil Griffin’s title from president to high minister of information, or something equally befitting the work of a party propaganist hack in a totalitarian regime. You wonder how mainstream news organizations allow their reporters and corrdespondents to appear in such a cauldron of bias.

    I thought show host Sean Hannity of Fox News defined party propagandist. But while his channel was bad, it wasn’t as bad-boy biased as MSNBC.

    The ratio of negative to positive stories in Fox’s coverage of President Obama was 46 to 6.

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  86. alex Masterley (1,438 comments) says:

    That blows one theory out of the water then.

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  87. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Yep! :cool:

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  88. Viking2 (10,712 comments) says:

    More on France.

    Socialism is one of the more stupid political ideologies out there. Take a look at the state of France buckling under from a lifetime of socialists:

    French leader François Hollande is uncomfortably close to a collapse in credibility. His poll rating has sunk to 36pc. The speed of decline has been shocking.

    The latest broadside comes from ex-German chancellor Gerhard Schröder, supposedly his ally on the Left.

    “The election promises of the French president are going to shatter on the walls of economic reality,” he said in Paris.

    The backsliding in the retirement age is indefensible and “cannot be financed”. Two or three more blunders of this kind and “reality will catch up with out French friends”.

    Mr Schröder knows what it takes to claw back competitiveness. He lost his chancellorship on the Hartz IV labour reforms.

    This tale of political sacrifice can be exaggerated of course. The Hartz IV reforms are not the chief reason why Germany is super-competitive today within EMU. The country’s hiring and firing laws are among the least reformed in the OECD to this day.

    The Teutonic machine regained a labour edge by screwing down wages for year after year (as companies like VW threatened to relocate plant to Eastern Europe). It was an internal devaluation. Hartz IV was the icing on the cake.

    Be that as it may, there is no doubt that Berlin is seriously worried about the strategic direction of France. Le Figaro – which now seems to launch daily attacks of considerable ferocity against the hapless Hollande – had a two-page spread today on German disgust with the new sick man of Europe.

    The French are living in Alice and Wonderland. Bild Zeitung asked whether France is becoming the “new Greece”. You get the drift.

    Hat tip. Whaleoil.

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  89. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Voila! Mystery resolved!

    But, is FES really Tom Hunter? Very similar style. Maybe they both went to the same Hasbara school in Tel Aviv.

    Now F E, really, this is surely an argument at the fringes of what constitutes a propaganda machine. I find MSNBC as nauseatingly one-sided as Fox, but with one important difference – MSNBC has a stunningly superior (but not perfect!) fact check pass rate.

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  90. Viking2 (10,712 comments) says:

    A guy walks into a bar in Arkansas and orders a white wine.

    All the hillbillies sitting around the bar look up from their beer and whiskey, expecting to see some pitiful Yankee from the north.

    The bartender says, “You ain’t from around here, are ya?”
    The guy says, “No, I’m from Canada.”
    The bartender says, “What do you do in Canada?”
    The guy says, “I’m a taxidermist.”
    The bartender says, “A taxidermist?
    What in the hell is a taxidermist? Do you drive a taxi?”
    “No,” says the Canadian “A taxidermist doesn’t drive a taxi, I mount animals.”
    The bartender grins and hollers, “It’s okay boys. He’s one of us.”

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  91. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    Indeed, sorry for starting a false rumour folks.

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  92. F E Smith (3,273 comments) says:

    Hey! I have just read the comments that were above my comment!!!!

    I pretty sure that I have said previously that I wasn’t Greg (regardless of what Johnboy says. By the way, I expect an apology now, Johnboy. Even though I won’t see it…).

    Greg was one out of the box, an exceptional lawyer combined with being a hell of a nice bloke. Not the best defence lawyer in NZ, but certainly in the upper ranks of the top echelon. His influence within the profession, however, was enormous.

    So, sadly, you poor people will have to put up with me for a little longer, at least.

    EDIT: Nor am I Tom Hunter, although I admire and respect his comments enormously.

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  93. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    They have a five year term V2.

    Let’s not get too excited too soon.

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  94. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    F E

    I’m not surprised at your attachment to Tom’s postings. I learn a lot from those, too.

    He is a student of the Monckton School of Argumentation: start with a lie and move on to bigger lies, cherry picking data and employing sophistry at every turn.

    Sound familiar?

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  95. DJP6-25 (1,229 comments) says:

    Wreck1080 1:08pm. They’re easy to get here in Korea at any time. I think there is an age restriction on purchase. No pimply little Stalins running around enforcing it though. You can have a barbie by the river, and set them off. Still no little Stalins in sight. Then, if you’re still hungry, take out pizza will arrive to the nearest bridge by scooter.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  96. bhudson (4,720 comments) says:

    start with a lie and move on to bigger lies, cherry picking data and employing sophistry at every turn.

    Sound familiar?

    Sounds exactly like you Luc. Are you now trying to claim to be tom hunter?

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  97. nasska (9,502 comments) says:

    A little town in southern Illinois had a sensational birth
    rate, and scientists decided to visit the place and find
    out the cause. So the sociologists, anthropologists,
    birth control specialists and other concerned scientists
    moved to the town prepared to do a six-month study
    of the causes of the town’s high birth rate.

    The day the research testing and all was to begin, the
    director of the ten million-dollar project stopped off at the
    single cafe in town and ordered coffee. When the waitress
    delivered his drink, the scientist detained her for a
    moment and asked, “Can you give me an idea why
    your town, above all others in this country, has such
    a high birth rate?”

    The waitress thought a moment, then said, “I think I can.
    You see, every morning at 5:30, the C&A Railroad comes
    through town and blows its whistle at all three street
    crossings. That wakes up the folks here and, as you can
    guess, it’s too darn late to go back to sleep,
    too darn early to get up, and the women are too sleepy
    to think up a believable excuse.”

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  98. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    bhudson

    Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

    Thank you so much.

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  99. bhudson (4,720 comments) says:

    Believe me Luc, I don’t have what it takes to be you.

    For which I will be eternally grateful.

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  100. wreck1080 (3,522 comments) says:

    @djp6: sounds nice. I can understand an age restriction on purchases, but, an age restriction on carrying a box to the checkout?

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  101. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    That’s better.

    Do try to be original.

    Poor old Tom, he just trawls the mega-conservative blogs and posts extracts as fact.

    But you do good line in insults that are at least creative and entertaining.

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  102. Viking2 (10,712 comments) says:

    Luc Hansen (4,202) Says:
    November 3rd, 2012 at 7:32 pm

    They have a five year term V2.

    Let’s not get too excited too soon.

    iTs the banks you dipwit. They are compromised to their eyeballs.

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  103. Steve (North Shore) (4,318 comments) says:

    Ban the Fireworks for personal sale I say. Too many stupid immature people.
    Most celebrations are on the day/night, but here we have fuckheads lighting fireworks at 9am friday morning – they obviously were not at work.
    These fuckwits, oh never mind

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  104. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    V2

    The banks are fine. The ECB is swapping their toxic debt for bonds, although they can’t say this explicitly because the Germans get upset. The have a strong view of economics as morality. Very Teutonic.

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  105. Viking2 (10,712 comments) says:

    http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/world/naked-flasher-ruins-wedding/story-fnd14032-1226508983224

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  106. Scott Chris (5,677 comments) says:

    Nah, tom hunter’s really Bob Jones.

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  107. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/arts/7903110/Exercise-sex-hibit-doesn-t-work-out

    Titahi Bay resident Lea Thoms said she was horrified when she and three of her children, aged between 6 and 20 months, came across the exhibit yesterday.

    I’m sure the 6 month old remarked about the size of the dildo to mum. Dear oh dear

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  108. RightNow (6,338 comments) says:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227171/Screen-legend-Leonard-Rossiter-accused-performing-sex-act-BBC-staff-tried-rape-18-year-old-TV-extra.html

    NOOO!!! Not Reginald Perrin…grot!

    On the plus side there’s some great video clips at the bottom of the article.

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  109. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    He’s the greatest: http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbint/1902766883-obama-juggles-campaign-and-storm-relief

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  110. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Lemming-like: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/03/obama-african-americans-paradox

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  111. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Manolo, I always wonder why he is described as a “Black” President. One of his parents was white, he could equally be described as a “White” President. His links to America are through his white mother. Using the logic of his supporters, he is descendent from slave owners, not slaves.

    But it is not that simple either!

    His links to former slaves are from his white mothers side of the family.

    “The president’s diverse roots are widely known to range from Kenya to Kansas, but researchers have found a new link.

    “President Obama is the 11th great-grandson of John Punch, who was the first documented African to be enslaved for life in the American colonies,” says Joseph Shumway, a genealogist at Ancestry.com.

    He says the president’s white mother is a direct descendant of the first known slave in the American colonies through a family by the name of Bunch.”

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57482046/surprising-link-found-in-obamas-family-tree/

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  112. Viking2 (10,712 comments) says:

    The Paid Parental Leave and Employment Protection Act is disturbing legislation that requires an employer to keep their employee’s position open for a year and mandates that holiday pay accrues during their 12-month sabbatical.

    Pregnant staff cannot be dismissed because they can no longer do their job; the employer must find them another role.

    Paid Parental Leave costs $163 million a year. Labour MP Sue Moroney has a bill before Parliament to increase this to six months. Bill English plans to veto the bill on financial grounds.

    Under Moroney’s law, taxpayers would pay every employed yet unworking mother $12,354 over six months, regardless of the parents’ finances. The mother’s firm would be forced to keep her job open, yet she is under no obligation to return permanently. Most don’t.

    In submissions on the Bill, a number of government agencies favour spending this money.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10844909

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  113. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Employers are still getting off lightly, V2. In other jurisdictions the employer pays the entitlement. Self interest is always a strong motivator, hence your opposition, I suspect, and delayed gratification is not a strong suit of your political ilk, but the measure would, in the long term, lead to a happier, healthier, wealthier society.

    Of course, our deeply Christian Minister of Finance won’t hear of it!

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  114. mikenmild (8,790 comments) says:

    V2
    We are faced with a fair number of social programmes that will be difficult to sustain over the medium to long term. We desperately need wide agreement on long term policies for income, welfare, health and education. Superannuation is already off the table, despite the easy and gradual changes that could be made but cannot be mentioned within the political lifetime of the all-highest.
    It’s long since overdue for serious consideration of what we pay for collectively and what we leave to the individual. Adding new entitlements ad hoc is ridiculous, even when the case for them is as blindingly obvious as the case for better paid parental leave.

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  115. Viking2 (10,712 comments) says:

    Bullshit to both of you.
    Feed your own urchins.

    Communism couldn’t do everything for everybody and its about time you fucking learnt that.

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  116. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    A nicely considered and intellectually rigorous response, V2.

    You have obviously been paying attention to Whale Oil!

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  117. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Talking about Whale Oil, isn’t there something not-so-faintly oxymoronic about the association of Whale Oil with truth?

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  118. mikenmild (8,790 comments) says:

    Oh V2, why won’t you play nicely? I promise to be nice. I’m sure Luc will behave too.

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  119. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Luc#

    Paid parental leave is complicated in australia.

    Not all mothers are treated the same as highly paid women have to take a pay cut if they take time off work. Low paid mothers can be paid more.

    Meanwhile ‘stay at home mothers’ arn’t paid anything even though child professionals say it is better for kids that their mothers are ‘stay at home mums’. Not all stay at home mothers have husbands on ‘large incomes’, lots are ‘battlers’.

    If a women takes PPL with their first child and takes ‘extended leave’[not returning to work till the baby is say 2] and then unintentionly falls pregnant a second time, she too does not get PPL.

    In other words, if PPL was applied fairly to every woman, then it would cost a lot more.

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  120. mikenmild (8,790 comments) says:

    That’s quite true Harriet. As with every other form of social assistance, there will be anomalies. I’d be quite in favour of extending paid parental leave as currently proposed, should compensating savings be found elsewhere.

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  121. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Milky#

    “…Superannuation is already off the table, despite the easy and gradual changes that could be made but cannot be mentioned within the political lifetime of the all-highest…”

    I live in Aus and up till a week ago, I too thought that ‘super’ was a very good way of saving. It still is, but I have since found out it has quite serious flaws.

    The ‘red zone’ is 5 yrs either side of retirement, when if there is a large market ‘correction’ you are pretty much wiped out. This point is not often stressed by the fund managers as ‘super’ in Aus is a trillion dollar industry. And the fees on a trillion dollars gets those in the ‘industry’ a lot of flash cars and houses. Tarts too.

    Most people don’t understand the ‘in’s and out’s of super regarding fees and types of investments. Since the gfc, returns have been low each year and in lots of cases even negative returns, however the fees remain the same! This is due to the fact that your money is deposited with a fund[bank etc] who have a ‘fee structure’ for ‘managing’ your money, but they then foward your money to money ‘managers’ who ‘invest’ your money into a particular fund, and they too have a fee structure. Take away the excess fees over a lifetime and people would have a resonable sized account.

    The size of funds under management is good for the ASX up to a point – it puts a ‘floor price’ under the sharemarket but can also make shares ‘overpriced’, so the % allocation of super funds in Australia allowed to be invested overseas has now been increased. This of course carrys extra ‘fees’.

    All of this is due to the government ’rounding up’ 12% of ALL INCOME EACH AND EVERY WEEK FROM ALL AUSTRALIANS and then getting EVERYONE to invest it in the ONE PLACE.

    In otherwords, no one in the industry has to ‘perform’ to get paid lots. Nor are they obligated to maintain your ‘capital’ balance that is invested with them.

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  122. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Milky#

    “…I’d be quite in favour of extending paid parental leave as currently proposed, should compensating savings be found elsewhere….”

    Taxes are not for the benefit of those who are taxed!

    Other than the cost of policing and navy etc it is nothing more than wealth redistribution.

    Years ago, people paid basic taxes for policing etc and got a pension when they retired for being ‘productive citizens’ and the fact that they would no longer be ‘able-bodied’ enough to earn a weekly wage to feed and cloth themselves. It was a good system: A reward system.

    Now the system is one of -

    you need all the money in your early years to pay for ‘any education the individual chooses’, ‘home ownership’ and the ‘welfare of your kids’ and this is done by the government making ‘savings’ from elsewhere: your retirement pension.It is a system of entitlement.

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  123. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    The true entitlement rorters are those who garner the majority of a country’s wealth and essentially put it in their back pockets.

    In a civil society, what Harriet sees as evil – taxation according to ability to pay – is in fact an indicator of a well functioning system that humans con thrive in.

    And the fact that thousands of years of past economic outcomes solidly demonstrate that Harriet’s way is the way to the triumph of greed and conflict is blithely brushed aside.

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  124. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Luc#

    “….And the fact that thousands of years of past economic outcomes solidly demonstrate that Harriet’s way is the way to the triumph of greed and conflict is blithely brushed aside…”

    Idiot.

    We are by-and-far richer that previous generations.

    When computers were invented they were only in the realms of big business and the wealthy, but when industry[the allocation of capital and labour] got hold of them they became nessesities in most homes – a basic desktop is about $400.00.

    Bill Gates was a student from the suburbs working in the family garage. A few million Chinese are now not in poverty because they make computer componants.

    The Japanese just back in the 70′s started making componants for transistor radios. Now look at their country and it’s wealth and technology.

    ‘Triumph of greed’ is it Luc?

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