General Debate 5th November 2012

November 5th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
Tags:

119 Responses to “General Debate 5th November 2012”

  1. Fletch (6,123 comments) says:

    Woop!

    First, two days in a row! Never happened before.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Fletch (6,123 comments) says:

    In a new video, Navy SEALS say they won’t be voting for Obama – pretty much across the board (90% – 99.9%)
    No trust – leaked secrets, etc.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    As if newspapers count today: http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/mediawire/194160/wisconsin-state-journal-endorses-romney-latest-paper-to-flip-from-obama-in-08/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. dime (9,634 comments) says:

    FFS, once again Dime woke up to pyke river families bleating on the radio. Just move on!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. hj (6,671 comments) says:

    radio nz endorses Cunliffe
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2536840/down-the-list-for-28-october-2012.asx

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    I’m surprised, very surprised, DPF (and KB) has not endorsed any candidate.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Lance (2,550 comments) says:

    @Fletch
    Sorry mate but hat is a meaningless piece of information. Like the seals wouldn’t vote for anyone who is going to spend the most on defense?
    I imagine no unionists will vote Romney.

    It would be more of a story if ‘friends of the earth’ had told their followers to dump Obama.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. tom hunter (4,552 comments) says:

    I imagine no unionists will vote Romney.

    You might want to see this CNN clip of Romney on the stump in Ohio back in August. Note the coal miners standing behind him, and the reception.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I am writing to endorse Obama/Biden 2012.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Lance (2,550 comments) says:

    @tom hunter
    Yes, forgot about the coal miners, good point.
    On the other hand there are Detroit auto workers!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. RightNow (6,834 comments) says:

    Thanks for the heads up Hamnida, I’ll buy Romney stocks based on your endorsement.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. iMP (2,330 comments) says:

    A Labour/Greens minority coalition government is tied as just as likely in 2014 as National (45% each). It all depends on what NZF does. Is this a repeat bad dream? Analysis of latest poll here:

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/latest-nz-poll/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. tom hunter (4,552 comments) says:

    I’ll buy Romney stocks based on your endorsement.

    I don’t know about that RightNow. You’re betting on Time-Travel-Hamnida, because back in mid-September …

    Congratulations to President Obama, although I have to say this was an easy victory against an extremely weak candidate.

    Someone owes me a chocolate fish.

    Still the reigning holder of the title: Dumbest Kiwiblog Commentator.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. Fairfacts Media (371 comments) says:

    Here’s how Obama might do it, but some polls have Romey winning in Wisconsin and other swing states.

    We can learn a lot from Democrats by what they oppose. While Maryland Congressman Elijah Cummings tells us there is no vote fraud, fellow Maryland congressional candidate Wendy Rosen is committing federal felonies by voting both in Maryland and Florida. While the NAACP is leading the charge against photo voter identification, Lessadolla Sowers from the NAACP heads off to prison for voting for dead voters. While Brian Moran, Virginia’s Democrat chair, rails against voter integrity, his nephew Pat is caught on camera plotting the use of forged documents at the polls to help President Obama.

    Indeed, we learn much by what they oppose. It certainly explains their existential opposition to True the Vote’s training of the poll-watching army on Tuesday.

    But this year, their hypocrisy has reached a diabolical crescendo. The Obama campaign has sought to unleash law enforcement officials across the United States against law-abiding citizens who exercised state and federal laws to clean up the voter rolls and monitor the polls.

    It is bad enough when Eric Holder refuses to enforce laws to maintain the voter rolls. It is even worse when his political buddies like Obama campaign lawyer Robert Bauer try to intimidate people who clean up Holder’s mess by badgering state election officials.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    tom hunter – I guess we will see how dumb I am at around 5pm on Wednesday (NZ time).

    I’ll happily eat humble pie if I’m wrong on this one.

    I’m still keen to change the chocolate fish to $100.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. Fairfacts Media (371 comments) says:

    http://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/2012/11/03/danny-devitos-union-thugs-and-tuesdays-vote/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    iMP – I am no poll-beater, but I have to say this poll is wrong because it assumes ACT will hold Epsom. I don’t think there is a person in the world who thinks ACT will survive beyond the next election.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. tom hunter (4,552 comments) says:

    I guess we will see how dumb I am at around 5pm on Wednesday (NZ time).

    They’ll be no need to eat humble pie; you’ll simply be a person who flipped a coin and got it either right or wrong. Broken clock right twice a day sort of thing.

    Your dumbness arises from the fact that you simply blurt assertions with no reasoning, which is what you did in calling the election as being over back in mid-September. The result on Wednesday won’t change the dumbness of a remark like that.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    PM, please stop talking about this stupid thing. It’s time to work for the country:
    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8559211/key-blames-messenger-in-beckham-comments

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    tom hunter – I was very confident Obama would win.

    So confident I made my declaration in mid-September.

    If I’m wrong, I’m an idiot.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. flipper (3,811 comments) says:

    So what happened to all those National-derailing “issues” that the half-arse MSM employees have been telling us about?

    The idiotic left wing scribes are wedded to their wet dreams. They do not have sufficient intelligence and real-world understanding of New Zealand circa latter 2012 to realise that their seed is dry. That why they keep shooting blanks. It is as simple as that.

    Time to stop the world and let the simpletons get off, is it not? :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Pete George (23,257 comments) says:

    Comments on guessing politics in two countries…

    A Labour/Greens minority coalition government is tied as just as likely in 2014 as National (45% each). It all depends on what NZF does.

    And…

    Your dumbness arises from the fact that you simply blurt assertions with no reasoning, which is what you did in calling the election as being over back in mid-September.

    Even more difficult to call an election here in 2014 based on a one poll now. Especially with the many possibilities under MMP.

    All we can really glean from current polls is that things are sort of in the balance, for the moment. A lot will happen over the next two years. For example Labour might get a leader who can lead, or they may continue fizzling, or may even be on a slide into oblivion.

    Some parties might have shifted support significantly.

    And small parties may or may not make a difference. Will Banks or Act survive? Will Dunne retire? What will the Maori Party do? Will Greens be exposed?

    And even then some of the most significant shifts occur in the last two weeks of an election. Will NZF make the threshold? Will the Consevative party make the threshold? We might find out soon what the threshold will be, that’s up for possible change.

    Calling election results on current polls is as relevant to November 2014 as tossing a dime.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Kleva Kiwi (281 comments) says:

    “Hamnida (832) Says:
    November 5th, 2012 at 9:47 am
    tom hunter – I was very confident Obama would win.

    So confident I made my declaration in mid-September.

    If I’m wrong, I’m an idiot.”

    Oh I think I am not alone in saving this comment for later this week, you know, just in case…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Elaycee (4,331 comments) says:

    Pete George:

    Calling election results on current polls is as relevant to November 2014 as tossing a dime.

    What’s dime got to do with it? :P

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. Pete George (23,257 comments) says:

    Elaycee – nah, dime should be able to stand a bit of tossing. That will be as accurate as anything.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. tom hunter (4,552 comments) says:

    Oh I think I am not alone in saving this comment for later this week, you know, just in case…

    Perhaps. But I was not being facetious when I told Hamnida that the dumbness lay not in the call made – Obama will win – but in the fact that it was simply an assertion.

    There are any number of people who have called the US election for Obama, and done so repeatedly over the last few months. I have not agreed with them, but they have at least made solid, reasoned arguments for their position, which is why I will not be calling those people dumb or idiots if they turn out to be wrong.

    Predictably Hamnida does not get this point either.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. Pete George (23,257 comments) says:

    So confident I made my declaration in mid-September.

    If I’m wrong, I’m an idiot.”

    Idiocy is already confirmed. Thinking that calling one nag in a two nag race has any degree of cleverness is idiotic, especially when both may be more knackers yard material.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. flipper (3,811 comments) says:

    PG and Elaycee…

    I suppoise one can toss a dime at any time…..
    It is the political and MSM tossers that worry me because there are still two further years of lies, damned lies and political BS ahead of us.

    HAND :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    The proof will be in the pudding.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    The crook campaigning for his fat wife’s boss:
    http://weeklystandard.com/blogs/bill-clinton-american-military-now-less-racist-less-sexist-and-less-homophobic_660301.html

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. campit (467 comments) says:

    Looks like Steven Joyce interfered with the tender process for AIFS to let Snapper in the door. Remember that Snapper lost the bid to provide integrating ticketing in Auckland to Thales, in a process that has already been subject to a probity review:

    Snapper was kicked out of the integrated ticketing project by Auckland Transport in August after it failed to make its card compatible with the overall ticketing scheme, causing repeatedly delays and cost over-runs. Both Snapper and NZ Bus are owned by infrastructure investor Infratil.

    “The Government has repeatedly denied any ministerial role in the decision to allow Snapper to use its smartcard on the Auckland buses. Transport Minister, Gerry Brownlee, told Parliament on June 27 that “Ministers have had no involvement in the decision to include Snapper in the integrated system.”

    “But correspondence from Snapper Services chief executive Miki Szikszai in March 2010, to then-Transport Minister Steven Joyce, has the Snapper CEO thanking Joyce for meeting with him and Infratil founder the late Lloyd Morrison. It says;

    “I understand that you have met with Geoff Dangerfield (NZTA chief executive) and Brian Roche (NZTA chair) following our meeting and that your expectations are that, given Snapper’s assurances, NZBus should be free to proceed on its current plan to implement Snapper equipment.”

    I’m sure you could argue that this is “someone else’s recollection”, though.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. Lance (2,550 comments) says:

    @Manolo
    Your hatred and puerile insults do not enhance your message.
    Yes I know all propaganda requires that the opposition be relegated to sub-human status but FFS.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. hmmokrightitis (1,566 comments) says:

    Oh god hamfisted, you really do just keep on giving dont you?

    First we have “If I’m wrong, I’m an idiot.” Um no, sometimes even when youre right, youre still an idiot. Black jeans. Still pants, and you need pants, but wrong, oh so wrong. In your case, idiots status, thats a given

    And then: “The proof will be in the pudding.” Oh FFS. This is reasoned thinking in your world. You do realise the shit mountain that ol’ Barry has built over there in the US, right? That following doctrine doesnt work? Please, by all means, enlighten us as to Barry’s achievements. Start with his promise to reduce debt. Tell me again how hes done on that.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    hmmokrightitis – Let the U.S voters judge this Tuesday.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. Pete George (23,257 comments) says:

    Labour-Greens want Working For Families payments to be extended to non-working families.

    And now they want Accident Compensation to cover non-accidents.

    Little: Change ACC illness ‘injustice’

    In a speech to a conference looking back on the 1972-75 Kirk Labour Government, Little said it was time to consider what to do about the inconsistent treatment of those incapacitated as a result of an accident and those incapacitated as a result of disease or illness.

    ”It’s more than an inconsistency. It’s an injustice.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7907461/Little-Change-ACC-illness-injustice

    But it is claimed that beneficiaries work – they just don’t earn wages, they get deserved benefits.

    So it should be easy to argue that becoming ill is an accident of nature.

    Why doesn’t the government just pay everyone the same amount and be done with it? Being productive would then be an optional extra.

    And we could solve our manufacturing ‘crisis’ by manufacturing our own colour printers, and employ people to print all the money we would need. Or maybe we should all have equal opportunities and have our own personal money printers, so we can print whatever we need and deserve.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. hmmokrightitis (1,566 comments) says:

    No hammy, answer the question. Because you ask it of JK. If JK had said he would reduce debt, as he has, you would be holding him to account. If youre mind could stretch that far.

    Tell me. What was the US debt burden when Barry came to office. And now, 4 years later, what is it. Come on, simple question. Go.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Let the U.S voters judge this Tuesday.

    The fact that 48% of the electorate seem to prefer a non-achiever like the Messiah is even more disconcerting.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    hmmokrightitis – Who is Barry?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Grendel (972 comments) says:

    Barry Sotero, the name Obama used for years before he realised Barack Obama was more exotic or political than Barry Sotero.

    also you moron, the phrase is not, the proof is in the pudding. the phrase is “the proof of the pudding is in the eating”.

    and nothing about the election result will have any input into how big an idiot you are. you are either an idiot who guessed right, or an idiot who guessed wrong. you should be able to spot the consistent factor here.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. RightNow (6,834 comments) says:

    The last time you took an intelligence test Hamnida, did they administer it with a ruler and two short planks?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. hmmokrightitis (1,566 comments) says:

    Hammy, baby, you do realise whats happening here, right?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Jesus – No wonder there was confusion, you should have just said Obama. I was thinking, “Who the f**k is Barry, have I missed something?”

    So, back to reducing debt. I guess I prefer Obama’s policies of job creation and economic growth compared to Romney who wants to cut taxes for the top 3% of earners. Obama’s polices just make more sense to me.

    We will see what Americans think when they vote.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. Grendel (972 comments) says:

    Stop evading hamidiot. no one asked you who you prefer, you were asked about the debt burden at the start of barrys presidency to now.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Just did a little research – I think you should be asking the question about U.S debt under George W.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Zapper (953 comments) says:

    I’d love to know which of Obama’s “job creation” policies you prefer.

    Just a quick question. How many jobs has he created so far? I’d like a net figure. If he is credited with creating them, he obviously must also take the blame for any job losses.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Grendel (972 comments) says:

    is bush running for reelection idiot?

    stop evading. its a simple question, use your research skills to find out.

    or you could just admit defeat and admit you are for obama becuase thats what all good lefties would do, irrespective of facts.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. hmmokrightitis (1,566 comments) says:

    LOL, ah hammy, bless, George W was a rank am compared to Barry. Come on, do a little more research. And as Zapper has noted, we can talk about job numbers next. Seeing as in your world gubbermints create all the jobs, right?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    The auto industry in particular.

    I guess under a Republican, the auto industry would have fixed itself through the ‘market’ and ‘invisible hand’.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. tom hunter (4,552 comments) says:

    The proof will be in the pudding.

    So that’s where the Democrats are hiding surprise ballots this year!

    Dear god, that’s painful to see, and although I rather kicked this off, I’d have to say that if the rest of you aren’t careful you’re going to wind up on that other live KB thread on the mistreatment of defenceless creatures.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. Scott Chris (5,958 comments) says:

    Well I’ve got a bob each way – One of my World Of Warcraft characters is named Oba_mama, the other is Mitt_Romney.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Grendel (972 comments) says:

    hes evading again. answer the question Ham.

    under a free market, the auto industry would have either collapsed, at which point someone would have bought it and made better use of the assets, or it would have sorted itself out.

    either way would not have required tax payers to prop up an unsustainable business, kneecapped by the unions. So how is GM doing at the moment?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Lance (2,550 comments) says:

    @Grendal
    “So how is GM doing at the moment?”

    I believe they are making money hand over fist in the US now.
    European operations will break even a few years after restructuring.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. hmmokrightitis (1,566 comments) says:

    Lance. You might want to check out the pension plan issues facing the big US auto makers before you start getting too enthused…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Grendel inhabits a world of invented facts.

    The bailout enable GM to enter managed bankruptcy, preserving many more jobs than would have otherwise been the case, thus disrupting significantly fewer lives. The union throwaway is a red herring. I still wonder how economists and commentators and commenters think the way to future prosperity as a society is by reducing income for most of the people. The cognitive dissonance is stunning.

    Scorched earth strategies are only favoured by sadists.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. tom hunter (4,552 comments) says:

    I believe they are making money hand over fist in the US now.
    European operations will break even a few years after restructuring.

    I hate to seem like I’m picking on you Lance but according to Forbes – who have a fairly solid reputation for business reporting -GM heading for Bankruptcy Again.

    They don’t just crunch the numbers of GM’s still declining market share but use the specific example of the Chevy Malibu as an example of how they’re still screwing up – and that’s before discussions start about the godforsaken Chevy Volt.

    With all that it should come as no surprise that they’re “selling” cars to dealers who, in turn, are not selling them:

    Those fears ended today with the company’s October car sales report, according to which GM sold 4.7% more cars, or 42,759 in absolute terms (from 153,005 to 195,764) in October than September, below expectations of a 7.8% increase. So far so good.

    What however will hardly get any mention from Government Motors cheerleaders is that GM auto inventory at dealers as of October 31 was a record 739,034 (a massive 98 days of supply), an increase of 49,700 from October’s 689,334. In other words, the entire incremental rise in sales, and then some, was due to the firm stuffing dealers with even more inventory than they can possibly handle!

    This is what happens when a bankrupt company is simply passed through Chapter 11 bankruptcy as a legal matter, emerging on the other side as a slightly different legal entity with tens of billions of debt offloaded to the taxpayer – rather than being restructured so that it does not happen again, which was the original intention of Chapter 11, and which has happened to numerous large US corporations over the last thirty years.

    This will not end well.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    No, no Luc, the Neolibs are right. The ‘invisible hand’ and ‘free market’ would have simply fixed the auto industry.

    Unlike Obama, Mr Hand and Mr Market are real people who can implement actual policies.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. tom hunter (4,552 comments) says:

    The ‘invisible hand’ and ‘free market’ would have simply fixed the auto industry.

    I hate to be the one to tell you this, but they’re “fixing” the auto industry as we speak – as those articles I posted on GM can attest.

    And if decades of socialism – whether hardline communism or Western “Democratic Socialism” – has proven anything, it’s that it can stave off the invisible hand forever and ever and ever.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. hmmokrightitis (1,566 comments) says:

    Youve missed the point hammy. GM are spiraling down the gurgler. Throwing good money after bad doesnt work.

    So, answer me this then. GM management, you know, the bad guys, utterly fucked the company. And the taxpayers are forced to bail them out. They have no choice. Part of the well documented issue with GM et al within the US auto industry is, as noted, pension plans. Crippling pension plans, driven by the all powerful unions, that are also part of why GM etc are in so much trouble.

    So, my question to you hammy old bean is this. What would you do, right now, to save GM. Go.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Scott Chris (5,958 comments) says:

    I hate to seem like I’m picking on you Lance but according to Forbes – who have a fairly solid reputation for business reporting -GM heading for Bankruptcy Again.

    A comment posted in rebuttal to that opinion piece:

    GM currently has about $40 billion in cash and liquid assets in the bank and is projected to earn about $4.00 per share next year which comes to another $8 billion profit to add to it. GM currently has enough cash in the bank and liquid assets on hand to buy back ALL of it’s shares at the current market price if it chose to do so. GM’s liabilities per the balance sheet are maybe $15 billion which is very manageable for a company of GM’s size. The shortfall in the pension and benefits is estimated depending on who you check it out with between $15 and $25 billion. GM has well over $100 billion on hand in its pension trust fund and the shortfall is payable over many years into the future.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    The Messiah’s Katrina. Imagine the outrage had this happened under Bush.
    http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8559287/nj-governor-still-has-no-power

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. Scott Chris (5,958 comments) says:

    Interesting to note that the current GM share price is up up 20% on that quoted in tom’s Forbes article which was written some 3 months ago.

    Perhaps those who were dissuaded by that analyst’s bearish advice not to touch GM are a little miffed having missed out on a 80% pa short term return.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. Fairfacts Media (371 comments) says:

    GM was not saved by Obama.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2012/10/28/ohioans-are-no-fools-obama-did-not-save-your-automotive-jobs/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. Scott Chris (5,958 comments) says:

    Tip of the day:

    Make sure your market analyst’s advice is non partisan.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. KevinH (1,147 comments) says:

    GM, an American institution, was vulnerable to a takeover at bargain basement prices, by none other than China. The prospect of GM falling into Chinese hands was unpalatable to many, China would of had direct access to a wide range of manufacturing companies in the US where sensitive commercial and political information was being stored or developed. So the government bailout was in the final analysis the best option.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. tom hunter (4,552 comments) says:

    Did you read the whole article Scott, or did you just skip to the comments? It did not address the union pension fund issue – that was hmmokrightitis.

    The article pointed out the problems facing GM in the actual business of making and selling cars, which are the same problems they’ve had for three decades now. They’re dwindling even as other car companies flourish:

    In 1965, Volkswagen was tiny compared to GM. It produced only 1.6 million vehicles, about 22% of GM’s 7.3 million. VW’s total revenues were only 11% of GM’s. The most powerful engine you could get in VW’s volume family car, the Beetle, had 40 horsepower. The biggest engine you could get in GM’s equivalent, the 1965 Chevy Impala, had 425 horsepower.

    In the first half of 2012, Volkswagen sold almost as many vehicles as GM did, 4.6 million vs. 4.7 million. And, its total revenues were much higher, $119.2 billion vs. $75.4 billion for GM. Part of this is the result of currency exchange rates, but VW had a significantly higher operating profit margin than GM, 6.8% vs. 5.7%.

    As they point out VW is still eating GM’s lunch, both in numbers and the competitive cars they’re churning out, and a big factor would likely be the management:

    However, additional insight can be obtained by looking at how GM’s CEO, Dan Akerson (63), stacks up against Professor Doctor Martin Winterkorn (65), the man handpicked by Ferdinand Piech in 2007 to be his replacement as CEO of Volkswagen AG.

    Akerson has an engineering degree, but he also has a Master’s Degree in Economics, and his first big job was as CFO of MCI.

    Akerson got his first job in the automobile industry when he was named CEO of GM in late 2010. Recently, he has been hiring and firing top GM executives at an alarming pace, and he is understood to be working on a major reorganization of the company. Akerson recently gave a televised speech to GM employees on the need for “integrity”.

    Martin Winterkorn has a PhD in Metallurgical Engineering, and he has spent his entire career in the automotive industry.

    And they give an example of the “Steve Jobs” approach that Winterkorn brings towards the detail of the car technology itself.

    GM is getting killed in Europe too – mainly courtesy of VW again.

    Those are the fundamentals of the business from which everything else flows, and that letter could have been written by any 22 stock-market analyst who thinks it’s just about crunching the headline numbers. As just one example:

    GM currently has enough cash in the bank and liquid assets on hand to buy back ALL of it’s shares at the current market price if it chose to do so.

    Sounds great – until you realise that the reason they “could” do that is that the damned share price dropped so much after the bailout. Perhaps in another year they”ll have even more money to spare after the buyback. Brilliant! And of course that assumes the US government would be either desperate enough or stupid enough to sell at these prices and confirm the rest of the big write-off.

    In any case – just to address the question of their pension funds: of course they have money to cover them – the rest of their debts got shit-canned to the taxpayer. And of course this is setting aside the way every creditor owed money by GM got the shaft – except for the UAW and their pension funds. Nice political connections if you’ve got them. For other workers, unionised or not, like the 63,000 workers at all the closed dealerships and the 20,000 people at Delphi, the story was not so happy.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Fairfacts Media (371 comments) says:

    Obama lied, as did the New York Times (again)
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204712904578090461206142072.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. hmmokrightitis (1,566 comments) says:

    Easy tom, thats facts your throwing around there, facts I say man.

    Just dont go expecting reason from 2 first names man or hammy. Doctrine or death.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. tom hunter (4,552 comments) says:

    Perhaps those who were dissuaded by that analyst’s bearish advice not to touch GM are a little miffed having missed out on a 80% pa short term return.

    As of today GM’s share price has still not caught up with the S&P500 over the last two years. As is often the case one would be better investing in a Market Index Fund, and it’s not as if the S&P 500 has been roaring along in that time.

    Tip of the day:

    Make sure your market analyst understands business fundamentals and can see further into the future than the end of their nose.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    How the long arm of government stuff things up: http://pc.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/gas-lines-are-not-sandy-fault.html

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. Pete George (23,257 comments) says:

    From a comment from capitald in the Greg King Tribute thread:

    I remember asking him what many of his clients had in common. He said “what strikes me is how normal they are”….. “most of them are pissed when they do it, and regret it afterwards”.

    Sadly true, alcohol is a major factor in crime, and in many societal problems. Needs to be confronted more.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. Reid (16,085 comments) says:

    Pete it’s not alcohol’s fault if someone gets pissed and gets angry. It’s the person’s fault and this is evident by the fact thousands of other people get equally pissed and don’t get angry.

    Very good 10:53 BTW. Nice to see you now and again drop the Mr Reasonable facade and like everyone else you’re getting mad at the inherently insane lefties. Good to see.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I don’t think I’ve quite understood you Neolibs yet, so please help me out.

    You would prefer a multi millioner corporate raider who pays 15% tax to be president rather than a job creator and Harvard educated lawyer like Obama?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    ..alcohol is a major factor in crime, and in many societal problems. Needs to be confronted more.

    P.G., your authoritarian streak comes to the fore. Or have you been talking to the chief wowser Doug Sellman?
    What are you suggesting? Prohibition, further tightening of existing laws, price increases?

    We have already enough regulations and controls around alcohol to fill a large ship with paper. Maybe a salutary lesson on individual responsibility is what the populace need.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Pete it’s not alcohol’s fault if someone gets pissed and gets angry. It’s the person’s fault and this is evident by the fact thousands of other people get equally pissed and don’t get angry.

    Agreed.

    I thought murder, assault, property damage, offensive behaviour, were already against the law. Its amusing that some people cry for more law to enforce law that is already, not working, by their own implied admission.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I agree with Reid. Alcohol is no excuse. You can’t say, “I bashed that person over the head, but I was drunk”.

    I think judges should increase penalties for those who commit crime under the influence of drugs and alcohol, not reduce them.

    In fact, I like my own policy on law and order. Once convicted, you can chose between a full sentence or educative programme. If you select the full sentence option, you simply do the time whether it be 17 years in jail or 200 hours community work. If you chose the educative option, you still complete the sentence, but have to undertake further training or education. For example, complete a 200 hour welding course instead of 200 hours community service. Or study a Master’s degree in your prison cell. Some prisoners will learn to read and write, while others will do polytech style building courses.

    Once the sentence is completed, your criminal record is annoted to reflect which option you selected and whether the education and training was completed or not.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Irish bookies paying out on Obama two days before election

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    A Sheep No More
    192 million “paper” ounces sold on COMEX within 10 minutes
    REALIST NEWS – 192 million “paper” ounces sold on COMEX within 10 minutes
    http://www.freespeak.net/ (Our new social media website, similar to Facebook.) http://www.realistnews.net/

    Silver

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    P George#

    “….Sadly true, alcohol is a major factor in crime, and in many societal problems. Needs to be confronted more…”

    “We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker.” — Ronald Reagan

    Alcohol just like Marriage, does not fail anyone, rather, people fail them.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. RightNow (6,834 comments) says:

    Hamnida, did they have to get more short planks and a longer ruler when administering your intelligence test?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. Pete George (23,257 comments) says:

    P.G., your authoritarian streak comes to the fore. Or have you been talking to the chief wowser Doug Sellman?
    What are you suggesting? Prohibition, further tightening of existing laws, price increases?

    I’m suggesting nothing like that.

    I suggest more individual, family, community and societal responsbility. Open discussion about the problems. Less acceptance of, less joking about and more condemnation of alcohol related bad behaviour. Better treatment of people with alcohol problems.

    That’s not authoritarian, it’s combining common sense.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. Grendel (972 comments) says:

    >You would prefer a multi millioner corporate raider who pays 15% tax to be president rather than a job creator and Harvard educated lawyer like Obama?

    you seem to be getting dummer ham.

    lets look at the facts.

    1. they are both multi millionaires, so thats irrelevant.
    2. corporate raider is hyperbole so can be ignored as the whining of an idiot
    3. its irrelevant the percentage someone pays in tax (unless its 0), what barely matters is how much tax. do you think Romney paid no tax, or lots of tax?
    4. Obama is not a job creator. taking money from teh private sector, thereby eliminating jobs there and ‘creating’ less jobs than you destroyed is not job creation.

    So we are left with, do you prefer the business man or the harvard educated lawyer. shit thats super easy. i want the guy with real world experience in building wealth for people, so in this case, go romney.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    The buffoon at large: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/04/biden-has-two-gaffe-sunday-in-ohio-both-related-to-former-president-clinton/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. Scott Chris (5,958 comments) says:

    Tom, I’m not saying that VW’s fundamentals don’t look better than GM’s or that GM has been steadily losing market share or that VW’s CEO has bigger balls than GM’s.

    What I’m saying is that to state that GM is headed for bankruptcy again is alarmist partisan nonsense. After all, Apple nearly died didn’t it? Things change. If the CEO’s a problem, then go headhunt someone else’s.

    Call me stupid but surely all a car company has to do to be successful is to efficiently produce is a reliable sexy range of cars? No reason GM can’t achieve this. There’s plenty of brand value still in names like Corvette, Camaro, Jeep etc.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. Grendel (972 comments) says:

    you are right scott, but if one car company is being outsold by another, and the efficiency of the one selling less is much reduced due to union dominance (among other things), and the wages of the firm are much higher as well as the onerous pension requirements that will have to be funded for decades; then surely you can see that it while it could take ages, the company will make less and less profit and will eventually hit the wall.

    nothing the obama bailout did, did anything but stall that.

    thats why the fundamentals are important. yes there is brand value in those names, but not necessarily when they are run under the crap setup GM has.

    when it hits the wall again, let VW or someone else buy the IP, and any systems that are any good, and turn the brands around.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Court OKs warrantless use of hidden surveillance cameras

    In latest case to test how technological developments alter Americans’ privacy, federal court sides with Justice Department on police use of concealed surveillance cameras on private property.

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57542510-38/court-oks-warrantless-use-of-hidden-surveillance-cameras/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. Reid (16,085 comments) says:

    This will be interesting:

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/356021/Tory-rapist-will-be-named-by-Steven-Messham-Is

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. tom hunter (4,552 comments) says:

    CEO has bigger balls than GM’s.

    That’s a very strange thing to say in this context. I’m talking about competence, and the latest GM CEO seems simply another in a long line who perhaps understand the financial spreadsheets but not the business. Winterkorn does.

    What I’m saying is that to state that GM is headed for bankruptcy again is alarmist partisan nonsense.

    You’re seeing partisanship where there is none. Forbes may support Romney (I don’t know), but this piece was written as any other Forbes article on a business is written. GM is hardly the first company they’ve got stuck into, and their point is that bankruptcy did not fix anything because it was not handled as Chapter 11′s are supposed to be.

    As far as alarmism is concerned, they are not saying the GM world will end tommorrow, just that it could well hit in the term of the next President. They, and others, were writing such about GM several years ago, so these warnings should not be dismissed as “alarmist”.

    No reason GM can’t achieve this.

    No, there is no reason in theory!. As you say, Apple did it – and then some. But GM has been trying and failing to turn this around for three decades now and the irony is that this bailout did not help that process. In fact it may have made it worse because the pressure to re-structure has been removed. Now they’ll just trundle along building up debt again.

    There’s plenty of brand value still in names like Corvette, Camaro, Jeep etc

    Jeep is owned by Chrysler, which is now owned by Fiat.

    But aside from that, brand value can get worn down – and the way they’ve lost market share would suggest that GM has pushed their customers beyond that point. GM cars are a mainstay of US rental fleets.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Nuclear armed moderate Muslim (mates with the US) news:

    “Pakistani officials say police have arrested a couple for allegedly killing their 15-year-old daughter by throwing acid on her because she was seen talking with a young man.

    Local government official Masood-ur-Rehman says the couple were arrested on Tuesday in Pakistan-administered Kashmir.

    Police officer Imtiaz Ali says the parents confessed to killing the girl a day earlier because they believed she had sullied the family’s honour.”

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/11/20121122267739819.html

    Lets bomb Iran. They are radical and make their women wear scarves :(

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. chiz (1,131 comments) says:

    Minto pleads not guilty to assault:

    He said another parole condition concerning violent behaviour was an insult.

    “It felt like to me an attempt to smear my character.”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Kea @ 4.43 just another of many similar reports.

    The question is, why are we so P.C. In New Zealand that we can’t see the
    nose on our face and stop importing more muslims into New Zealand ?

    We have horrific murders in NZ down to muslim imports. Torching their ex spouse on the forcourt of
    a gas station in Manurewa.

    Half stranguling the mother of your children and pouring petrol on her and lightening her up in
    rural Waikato for reasons of, “Honour.”

    We need more muslims in NZ like we need a hole in our head.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  91. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    By the way.
    Just waiting for huge intellects like, say, Luc Hansen to chime in and explain why it is all
    our fault that muslims commit these disgusting crimes in the name of allah, the magnificent.
    The mercifull.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  92. Reid (16,085 comments) says:

    explain why it is all our fault that muslims commit these disgusting crimes in the name of allah, the magnificent. The mercifull.

    Sorry bereal I only have an average intellect but helpfully I’ve never had cognitive dissonance so I’ve been able to see the slow rise of the train of thought you display amongst many in the western population since the bombing of the USS Cole.

    I’m happy to report you and people who think like you have been flim-flammed, sucked-in, fooled, swindled, bamboozled by a PR campaign.

    For if you weren’t then you’d automatically apply the logic that just because someone says they’re doing it in the name of Allah this doesn’t make it so. But you can’t even conceive of that can you, because Islam is just so full of seething bubbling hatred in any direction you look.

    But that’s mental, if you compare it to what the world thought in 1990. And the Muslim peoples are the same then as they are now, just as we in the west are the same people as we were in the 1990′s. So a whole culture doesn’t suddenly turn on a dime does it and within one generation suddenly become a mortal enemy. Does it. Countries sometimes do that but cultures don’t. Not in one generation. Since when has that happened in history and if you argue the Muslims are rising up against the infidels in a civilisation-civilisation clash, then explain why they, the militarily weaker on every measure, would ever want to do that?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  93. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    An Arab goes to the doctor. He complains that his left leg has turned white, and wanted to know if it was dangerous. The doctor examined the limb, and after fingering his beard for a minute, turns around and leaves the room.
    Ten minutes later the doctor returns, holding a large jar, and giving it to the Arab he says, “Drink this up, and I am certain that your problem will be gone!”
    So the Arab gulps down the medicine, and when he has drank it all he looks at his leg and it immediately changes back to its natural brown colour.
    “God,” he says, “That medicine tasted like shit!”
    “That’s because it WAS shit,” said the doctor, “You were down a couple of pints!”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  94. Viking2 (11,242 comments) says:

    Someone in Aussie is getting thier thinking right. When will we do the same?

    Online GST reprieve for local retailers

    The federal government’s GST review is expected to recommend expanding the GST net to catch $4.2 billion in online sales, in a bid to shore up ­collapsing federal tax revenues.

    A move to tax overseas internet sales, by either lowering the $1000 tax-free threshold or imposing the tax on offshore suppliers, would be backed by local retailers, which have long complained that they are put at a competitive disadvantage at a time when online shopping is growing.

    http://afr.com/p/national/online_gst_reprieve_for_local_retailers_NqPHaa7OPzWZNQpmGlnuCL

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  95. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    A surtax on hidden union donations would be a good place to start here. Then we could audit pub poker machines and the assholes that profit from them a little more seriously! :)

    A supertax on overpayed CEO’s would be a bloody good idea as well come to think of it!!!! :) :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  96. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    Reid

    …”So a whole culture doesn’t suddenly turn on a dime does it and within one generation suddenly become a mortal enemy”…..

    But it didn’t change in one generation mainly because it didn’t have to. There’s been animosity between the Islamic & Christian peoples going back to before the first Crusade. Probably the creation of the state of Israel fanned the flames but there has never been a peaceful coexistence.

    …”Islam is just so full of seething bubbling hatred in any direction you look.”…..

    Observation of the week.

    ….”the Muslims are rising up against the infidels in a civilisation-civilisation clash, then explain why they, the militarily weaker on every measure, would ever want to do that?”…..

    Because they can count on the western socialists to do their bidding. Our Muslim cuddlers will treasonously side with the West’s enemies.

    Glad I could sort it out for you.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  97. Griff (6,987 comments) says:

    Reid turkey was doing bad things to christians long before the present generation

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  98. Reid (16,085 comments) says:

    But it didn’t change in one generation mainly because it didn’t have to. There’s been animosity between the Islamic & Christian peoples going back to before the first Crusade. Probably the creation of the state of Israel fanned the flames but there has never been a peaceful coexistence.

    Well nasska even if you chose to hallucinate that they have always thought that since time immemorial despite you knowing nothing about them as people, the fact remains we, the west, didn’t think of them the way we do today back in 1990 did we. No, we didn’t. So how come the possibility this is perception management as opposed to reality, isn’t even worth considering?

    Because they can count on the western socialists to do their bidding. Our Muslim cuddlers will treasonously side with the West’s enemies.

    Most western politicians on both sides conservative or left in the EU and the US are proactively damaging their own countries by unrestricted migration in order to increase tensions.

    The only Muslim’s “cuddling” the west are ones like Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Dubai, UAE – the satraps.

    turkey was doing bad things to christians long before the present generation

    Christians were doing bad things as well Griff.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  99. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Meanwhile, sadly for those who would like to see a white man back in the White House, Nate Silver has Romney down to only a 1 in 8 chance of winning on Wednesday, from a much more hopeful 1 in 4 a couple of days ago. And the problem for Romney, of course, is that he can only have one election, not recurring elections until he finally wins one.

    However, this does not mean Romney can’t win.

    But I suspect it does mean that some people are going to be pretty grumpy in these woods for a few days.

    And I think the Democratic ‘enthusiasm gap’ myth is being put to rest by the long lines in Florida as Democrat voters battle past the extraordinarily anti-democratic firewalls put up by Republicans over the last few years.

    But really, it’s all a storm in a teacup, isn’t it? Obama, Romney…it’s Obamney no matter the result!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  100. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    Reid

    It won’t take much hallucinating on my part….the first Crusade started in 1095 so that’s 917 years worth of animosity already. Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

    …”we, the west, didn’t think of them the way we do today back in 1990 did we.”…. Now it gets interesting. As I remember it, the ME & Islam by default was, up until about 1990, regarded as a backward part of the globe characterised by camels, flying carpets & strange men who rode camels & wore curtains on their heads while molesting passing livestock. Some were pitching their tents above oil deposits.

    In other words the average man in the street wasn’t particularly interested until the terrorism attacks started. It is also at this point where our assessments of who was behind the attacks may differ a little.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  101. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Folk that molest livestock can’t be all bad! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  102. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Some were pitching their tents above oil deposits.

    It’s OK nasska, I think they have got the message now that it’s our oil.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  103. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    I’m glad that the message finally sunk through to the thick buggers Luc. :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  104. Griff (6,987 comments) says:

    Wasn’t there some kerfuffle over Israel the five-day war and I seem to remember a place called Lebanon and some incident at the Olympics. The Muslim world and its politics of extremism has been an international incendiary for as long as I can remember. Maybe the fall of communism just brought it closer to scrutiny in the west

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  105. Reid (16,085 comments) says:

    Break the threat down to its real essence and what do you see?

    You don’t see a seething cauldron of bubbling hatred. You see extremist groups all over the place, like cancer in a body. But these are discrete groups that operate in their own territories and do not represent an existential threat to the west, which is how the western PR campaign has painted it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  106. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    True Reid. We should be very happy when we see Sunni v Shite, Hamas v Fatah and all the various factions slaughtering each other in Syria etc. Keeps their sad little minds off of us.

    As long as the oil keeps flowing Allah be praised! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  107. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    These women have had surgery. They used to look worse:

    http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/alleyes/2009/11/terrorism-thats-personal.html

    These things can and do happen increasingly in the West. I could show pictures of innocent people mutilated by Western weapons in the Muslim world. It is crazy that we are invading Muslim lands, while we allow this to happen at home (speaking globally).

    We are not in the Muslim countries for human/womens rights. That is pure bullshit and only an idiot would believe it. If that were the case the US would be occupying countries all over Africa. Afghanistan has a great human rights record compared with most African countries. At least there they could offer a measure of personal security from roving bands of thugs, so people could get on with life. Africa also has many Muslim extremists who make the Taliban look like choir boys in their brutality.

    I think we should leave them to it in those countries. They will join the rest of humanity when they are ready. Our efforts to “help” have only delayed that process. What we should do is protect our countries. I am sure most Muslims living in the West agree. They did not move to the West to see the troubles they escaped replicated in their new homes.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  108. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Some context to Tom Hunter’s feverish excitement over GM:

    http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/general_motors_corporation/index.html

    An extract:

    On October 31, General Motors reported profits in every region of the world except Europe, where it once again extended one of the longest losing streaks in the auto industry.

    It’s easy to point to the very real downsides of the auto industry bailout, but the ramifications of not doing it were huge.

    Griff

    For as long as I can remember, and since it’s inception, the US has been at war with nearly everyone. It has attacked some 160 countries, 60 of these since WWII.

    Incidentally, during the same time frame, Iran, currently cited as the world’s new bogeyman, has attacked…zero.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  109. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Nasska#

    “…..Because they[muslims] can count on the western socialists to do their bidding. Our Muslim cuddlers will treasonously side with the West’s enemies….”

    That is spot on Nasska.

    We gave the Left, who hate religion, the chance to have a war against religion but they didn’t show up for it, probably because they had to fight on the same side of the US and NZ. Instead, and as per usual, the Left made the West fight the ME wars with one hand tied behind their backs: Appeasement of Muslim demands as the first and only resort.

    “I can smell the stench of appeasement in the air.” – Maggie Thatcher. :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  110. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Luc, last time Iran had a war was when Saddam attacked them, backed by the USA.

    The last time they attacked anyone was hundreds of years ago !

    The only pattern I can see with US aggression is that they may not like Israel enough and Obama is not only as bad as Bush but worse.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  111. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Harriet, Appeasement of extreme Islam is something I oppose. However we can not claim the moral high ground while we continue invading and bombing them in their countries. We need to pack up, go home and sort our own shit out.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  112. RightNow (6,834 comments) says:

    Luc, I see Tom handed your ass to you again last night but you ran away. I’m sure you have some really good excuse though, like you do for 16 years of no warming eh?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  113. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “….They[africa] will join the rest of humanity when they are ready. Our efforts to “help” have only delayed that process…”

    That’s not really the case, as the British did put southern parts of Africa on the path of becoming civilised, however ‘cultural relativity’ has been the orthodox practice of dealing with Africa since Ian Smith was booted from Rhodesia in the early ’80s.

    We can see the practice of cultural relativity being central to the problems of Africa because the UN etc don’t acknowledge that Africa is being run by ‘too many old black men’.

    BTW: I actually suggested to Whaleoil that he ask Key and Shearer -via Truth journos- if too many old black men are running Africa. I bet he won’t, and Truth will remain as lefty as the rest of the news feedia.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  114. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Many countries established modern cities with world class (at the time) infrastructure in Africa. Not just the British.

    No country on earth has had so much opportunity. They have been gifted the things that others worked to get over thousands of years. They did this in a country rich with natural resources most other places could only dream of.

    It is another example of how “helping” does not work, for those not willing to help themselves.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  115. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “…However we can not claim the moral high ground while we continue invading and bombing them in their countries….’

    Kea, we can claim the moral high ground as they won’t denounce terrorism. Nor will some of their Millitary’s Commisioned Officers.[The Talibann and other insurgants are not an army, they are civillians just like everyone else.] Some ME CO’s even harbour terrorists.[Pakistan for example.]

    The US had the moral right to take the war to the ME instead of it being fought in downtown NY in sept 2001. It drew out insurgents and other ‘holy warriors’ – the US presence still does draw them out and the world is the more safer for it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  116. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Kea, we can claim the moral high ground as they won’t denounce terrorism.

    Ok claim the moral high ground. I don’t care and few people do.

    All I suggest is that we don’t claim that ground while we are invading their countries. I think the bigger threat is our tolerance of extreme Islam in our own countries.

    For the record, I am not anti Muslim, just anti oppressive and cruel treatment of my fellow man.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  117. Longknives (4,671 comments) says:

    Do the fucking arseholes over the back of my house who are shooting fireworks at every house (old wooden highly flammable villas) in the street count as ‘Terrorists’?
    Because I’m about to go visit them and take action….

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  118. Viking2 (11,242 comments) says:

    $3.5b profits for big four banks

    Profits for New Zealand’s four largest banks have soared to close to $3.5 billion for 2011/12 after Westpac yesterday revealed another record result.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10845400
    ———————————-
    Well now it will be interesting to see what the tax payment will be.
    Will it be like the Apples,Googles and Starbucks etc?

    Apple’s tax rate? 1.9 per cent
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10845228

    We await the press Release with interest.!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  119. Viking2 (11,242 comments) says:

    his is worth a day or two’s worth of debate.

    Bain case heel-dragging a disgrace
    By Bob Jones
    I unwittingly had a minor involvement in the matter from the outset so I’m writing this solely from my perspective. Karam’s near two-decades heroic battle on behalf of Bain is the greatest self-sacrifice I’ve ever known and unsurprisingly, has taken a sizeable toll on him.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10845366

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.