cheers

David Prosser

Chippie may be the Whip but I think the open denunciation of Cunliffe for undermining not just Shearer but also Goff is going to be one of those things that will make it hard to move on from

And yet you’re surprised the Party’s got misgivings about Tamihere? Isn’t that a little disingenous?

You’re making assertions, they’re opinions, they’re no more credible than anyone else’s…

David’s piece at least had reference to something outside of his own thoughts (unlike kiwi in america’s comment which clearly is exclusively from his/her own head).

I’m sure Grant can make a public and explicit denial of him switching his allegiance to Shearer in return for the deputy leadership, if he has an issue with that perception existing. Better yet, he could refute the suggestion that he did – that would require him providing proof to that effect.

that’s stretching it.

No Paul, what is stretching it is to suppose that Grant has any real loyalty at all. Parker had shown no inclination to withdraw his nomination until Grant dumped him in exchange for the deputy leadership.

You certainly can trust Grant. But not for his loyalty…

It goes further than that. Having been on the inside of Labour for years and now mingling amongst more people of a centre right perspective, one of the reasons for the intense power struggles inside parties of the left is because for a good percentage of them their political activism is their LIFE. More on the left are childless and/or in relationships with fellow left leaning activists. Furthermore they believe in activist government and so the levers of power are more desirable to them as they feel impelled to pursue power to grab and use that power to direct spending to their preferred constituents. They see themselves as protectors of the poor – modern day Robin Hoods – taking from the rich to give to the poor. That whole dynamic is intoxicating and so it drives the ideologues who believe it to set aside reasonableness when power is in their grasp and to deal with ruthlessness anyone even inside their own party who might be perceived as getting in the way.

On the right people are less obsessed with politics with a majority of people of that pursuasion being consumed more by the mundane family things of life like raising kids, watching the footie, serving in the community and a higher percentage, especially here in the US, have religious involvements that bring satisfaction. Whilst the right still seeks power, those who run for office on the right bring a broader deeper life view and with that comes a perspective that is more in line with the wider community. Political operatives on the right tend to be less ideological and more pragmatic seeking agreeable win win solutions and so there are fewer toes to be trodden on inside their parties and greater capacity for compromise. National tends to draw from a wider range of professions and from small/medium businesses whereas the left in NZ mostly recruits from a narrower base of trade unionists, academia, social services and lawyers.

Yes but we don’t want to talk about those Paul, we want to talk about your ones, they’re much more fun.

You don’t to widen the discussion any . You tell your favourite story about Shipley, I’ll tell you mine about Sowry? Go on, it’ll be fun.

Yes but we don’t want to talk about those Paul, we want to talk about your ones, they’re much more fun.

My observation of that particular race was that as the numbers moved around both Grant and David Parker changed their positions.

I actually can’t think of a recent or comparable situation where that hasn’t happened on either side of the NZ parliament. Remember the parade of leadership changes in National in Opposition?

Grant’s loyal because he is

You might want to check with David Parker on that. He thought so too…

A less complicated ‘narrative’ could be that Grant’s loyal because he is, Hipkins has been stroppy ’cause he’s the Whip. Jus’sayn.

[DPF: I'm not saying Grant is not loyal. I am saying he is protecting his future interests. The vote was so close, I think Grant may have swung it. Chippie may be the Whip but I think the open denunciation of Cunliffe for undermining not just Shearer but also Goff is going to be one of those things that will make it hard to move on from]

The lefties are always much more into factions than conservatives. It’s in their DNA. In the Liabore Party you’ve got LGBT, Unions, The SisterHood, Maori, PI. Most of these are powerful, PI possibly not but the others are all very influential and many belong to more than one. It’s like collecting Merit Badges to them. But it creates operational friction, factionalised decision making and incoherent policy blends because there is no one over-arching strategy. The factions won’t accept one. It’s only when someone like Hulun comes along and makes everyone get in behind, that it comes together. And no leader in current sight is capable of doing that to the current caucus, are they.