JJ Lawrence

November 15th, 2012 at 3:00 pm by David Farrar

Anna Leask at the Herald writes:

A week before JJ Lawrence was murdered, his aunt went to check on him because his father was concerned the tot was in danger.

She thought the 2-year-old was okay, never imagining that days later he would be killed by a man who had been subjecting him to months of abuse, including breaking his arm twice and forcing him to smoke dope.

Yesterday – exactly a year after James Joseph Ruhe Lawrence died from a blow to his tummy so hard that his pancreas and liver split in half – the man who had made his short life hell was found guilty of murder.

Joel Loffley began a relationship with JJ’s mother, Josephine Lawrence, last year. While in Loffley’s care JJ received two arm breaks – one left for days as Ms Lawrence was too drunk to seek help – and numerous other injuries.

Obviously the problem was the lack of a universal child benefit.

Loffley “played rough” with JJ and was seen making him smoke an asthma inhaler full of marijuana.

JJ was visibly terrified of Loffley, but could do nothing to escape.

One of far too many cases we have.

I will never understand such cruelty to children. I feel protective about kids and babies, that are not even related to me. So do 99% of us. It is the most natural thing in the world.

Keeping Stock blogs:

 When we blogged about the guilty verdict returned against Joel Loffley yesterday, regular commenter bsprout attempted to make a political statement saying this:

“It’s a pity that the government has only invested in the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff stuff and have gutted all the initiatives that would stop these things happening in the first place”  

Looking beyond the fact that the measures proposed by Paula Bennett in her White Paper on Vulnerable Children (a far more wide-reaching solution than Labour, supported by the Greens managed in nine years) have yet to be fully implemented, we suggest that no political initiative could have prevented this. 

You can’t blame poverty either. As we recall, evidence was given at the trial that both Loffley and Ms Lawrence were receiving welfare benefits despite living together. Loffley supplemented his benefit by selling cannabis from the couple’s home. A lack of money did not cause JJ’s death. And bsprout should reflect on those ripping off the welfare system, especially those who think it is their “right” to do so. The money being paid out to welfare cheats would be far better spent elsewhere in the economy.

Their combined income was higher than many households. The problem was they spent it on cannabis and alcohol.

I hope it is a very long time until Loffley is out of prison.

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76 Responses to “JJ Lawrence”

  1. Falafulu Fisi (2,141 comments) says:

    From Not PC.

    Homicide by welfare

    I bet that Pete George will pop in here and blame that WE as a society have failed again.

    There’s no WE Pete George! I didn’t do it and neither did you? You should stop your socialist guilt of blaming WE in this case because I didn’t do it.

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  2. Rex Widerstrom (5,013 comments) says:

    Why are you and KS conflating this issue with one of child poverty, DPF? Did Loffley or his lawyers advance poverty as a cause of his behaviour?

    If not, then saying “one beneficiary is a murderer, therefore no beneficiary deserves additional assistance and all must be managing well on what they’re getting” is drawing such a long bow that you’ll need an extra arm.

    And even if they did try putting that forward in mitigation, a simple “bullshit” would suffice, without trying to use it as the shakiest of foundation on which to argue that the children of beneficiaries and low income earners do not deserve a better standard of living.

    [DPF: Rex – Labour and Greens always go on about how you can’t stop child abuse, unless you reduce “child poverty”. They say paying beneficiaries more will reduce child abuse.

    I’m not making a case for or against increasing benefits. I’m shooting down the arguments that dozens of leftie groups have made that child abuse is predominately about poverty]

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  3. RRM (10,104 comments) says:

    The Government of the land should not have to “invest in” “initiatives” to try to persuade human beings to look after their babies and not kill them.

    Human beings ought to be able to take that kind of initiative for themselves; and if they can’t, there’s something wrong with them not the Government.

    The only “initiative” the government should “invest in” is taking this thing to the rubbish dump, shooting it, and dumping the carcass in a hole. It is nothing but a failed attempt at a person. An utterly failed attempt. Throw it in the rubbish.

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  4. Manolo (5 comments) says:

    Thank you Falafulu.
    A good article, indeed, which will never convince the sanctimonious do-gooders and bleeding-hearts that abound in politically-correct NZ.

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  5. RRM (10,104 comments) says:

    Falafulu Fisi:
    I bet that Pete George will pop in here and blame that WE as a society have failed again.

    There’s no WE Pete George! I didn’t do it and neither did you? You should stop your socialist guilt of blaming WE in this case because I didn’t do it.

    Speak for yourself.

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  6. Ryan Sproull (7,361 comments) says:

    The thought of any child being terrified makes me feel like I’ve been drinking concrete.

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  7. Adele Keyshia (39 comments) says:

    “Human beings ought to be able to take that kind of initiative for themselves; and if they can’t, there’s something wrong with them not the Government.”

    They should be. The sad reality is though, that there is a lot of people out there with “something wrong” with them. If we hold childrens rights to be important and inalienable, Government initiatives are the only way to help the poor children who are unlucky enough to have parents with “something wrong” with them.

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  8. Ryan Sproull (7,361 comments) says:

    We have a duty and an obligation to prevent harm to children when we have any power to do so – an obligation which increases in proportion to our power to prevent that harm.

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  9. bij (66 comments) says:

    i think poverty is the lack of financial security, not a lack of money per se. i know that is waffly liberal talk and vague-sounding “class” critique, but i think poverty sort of encompasses welfare dependency, rather than being opposite. Poverty is not really a very useful term.

    hey, this is just my 2 cents – and i agree, poverty is not a reason or excuse – but at some level, i think the underclass status of the guilty party and a general lack of social mobility in NZ society did have something to do with what ended up happening to the innocent little kid. Society left him in the care of a monster.

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  10. In Vino Veritas (140 comments) says:

    The anti-smacking laws really helped didnt they? No one should claim poverty for these animals. They had enough to buy drugs and alcohol, thats for sure.

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  11. bij (66 comments) says:

    .. i forgot to add:

    there are a lot of monsters out there, several have kids, and they are not all currently in prison. why does everyone act surprised and wring hands then this sort of stuff happens?

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  12. Shazzadude (531 comments) says:

    “In Vino Veritas (7) Says:

    November 15th, 2012 at 3:33 pm
    The anti-smacking laws really helped didnt they?”

    The murdering laws didn’t help either. I don’t see what your point is.

    Back on subject, I think this comes back to males latching onto solo parent females, and thinking they have a right to treat their children like crap or use them as a form of stress relief. While people seem to be quick to focus on the ethnicity of the child, an even more common theme here is that the majority of these cases involve a “stepfather” (Delcelia Witika, Tangaroa Matiu, Ngatikaura Ngati, Nia Glassie, Saliel Aplin and Olympia Jetson, Coral Burrows, James Whakaruru etc. etc.), and the “step-father” is almost always unemployed.

    I’d like to see a campaign encouraging mothers on the DPB to choose a partner wisely-but that wouldn’t fit the PC agenda of some out there.

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  13. tristanb (1,127 comments) says:

    I agree with Adele.
    I think the government could do a lot to help families like this.

    1. Stop feeding their addictions by shovelling them money to buy drugs with.
    2. If they’re getting government money, then it needs to be controlled by the government. We need a benefit card.
    3. Stop giving people incentives to recklessly have more and more kids
    4. Give people independence by making them save up to get things, instead of going to WINZ for a grant.
    5. Increase sentences for crimes to give children a longer break from their criminal father. At the moment, they’ll have a short amount of time then come home and give everyone a hiding, or home D where they get stoned all day. There should be no home D – they should be in jail.

    And there are plenty of others of things the government could do to help these children and their families. But they instead do the opposite.

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  14. backster (2,196 comments) says:

    Interesting that Loffley met the mother through an internet assignation when he was searching for an address for Bail purposes while on bail for a serious assault charge on his former partner. (Lindsay Mitchell. Otago Times)

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  15. Rex Widerstrom (5,013 comments) says:

    tristanb suggests:

    1. Stop feeding their addictions by shovelling them money to buy drugs with.
    2. If they’re getting government money, then it needs to be controlled by the government. We need a benefit card.

    In addition to declaring areas “dry”, John Howard’s government did just that in the outback across NT and parts of Queensland. For the first time in memory, Aboriginal women could walk the streets safely. Their children were fed. After some initial grumbling, most Aboriginal people accept that they are now better off than ever.

    But now, declaring that Aboriginal men should have “the same right as anybody to buy drink” (never mind their responsibilities) the Queensland State government intends to relax the ban. No doubt they’d do away with the welfare payment by card if they could, but it’s a Federal function.

    The most saddening aspect of this is that the Queensland government is Liberal while Federal (which is urging against relaxing the grog ban) is Labor.

    If the benefit couldn’t be used to buy drugs and booze (and computer game consoles and new games) I suspect we’d see a sudden increase in the number of young men who found they were suddenly fit for work, since a wage would be the only way to obtain such luxuries. Then with the money saved by getting them off the teat we could afford to increase support for the genuine deserving cases who’d be happy to spend using the card.

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  16. Reid (16,737 comments) says:

    I will never understand such cruelty to children. I feel protective about kids and babies, that are not even related to me. So do 99% of us. It is the most natural thing in the world.

    I feel protective about kids and babies too, but that doesn’t stop me from understanding why Loffley did what he did. People do what they do because of their habits, habits are formed from actions, actions arise from thoughts. It’s Loffley’s thoughts, or lack thereof, which caused this.

    To most of us it’s only natural to be protective to a fragile child. This is because we all grew up with love in the family. But to Loffley and thousands like him, who didn’t grow up like that, it’s not natural, at all. They don’t have the same instincts we have. Further all of them leave skool young, get wasted too young which fucks their brain, have lots of fights when they’re young, which twists their morality and sense of what’s normal and do a dozen other things when they’re young, which would never occur to any of us.

    The thing that I haven’t yet worked out is why Loffley and others do it to kids when others who have similar upbringings don’t. All of them are violent but most of them don’t do it to kids. There’s a very small ratio of people who do it to kids, out of the total pool of people with his sort of upbringing and background. But the total pool is so large there are other Loffley’s out there, right now. We all know it.

    None of this is to excuse Loffley, but there’s absolutely no point in analysing something like this if you’re going to get all judgy and moralistic. Of course what he did was wrong, of course it was. But what does it add to the sum of knowledge merely to restate that obvious no-brainer?

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  17. RF (1,492 comments) says:

    Presuming that the evil piece of shit (Loffley) is a Maori, when are the elders of his race going to take ownership of these repetitive crimes against their children ?

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  18. RRM (10,104 comments) says:

    Rex –
    Yes – or some sort of work for the dole scheme. Via a Minister of Social Welfare with some spine to stare down the “but but but – you CAN’T do that!” mob and do it anyway.

    If you had to labour for 40 hours a week for your dole, then (a) you wouldn’t have the time to intoxicate babies with dope, and (b) you would be in a position to compare other more gainful employment with where you are, and possibly even start thinking of the future.

    Reid –
    great comment, though I disagree with your last paragraph. I think public condemnation of, and even hatred for criminals is a positive force in society. There needs to be more of it, and less of this thinking that they are entitled to our “help” as though it is someone else’s responsibility to offer them something better than being a piece of shit. Basically, I reckon the more widespread a loathing of criminals is, the more kids will be brought up with a worldview that you wouldn’t even contemplate going down that road, it is unthinkable. Call it peer pressure, if you like. (Of course it needs to be tempered by an appreciation of the imperfect nature of any justice system and the principles of presumption of innocence. )

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  19. Manolo (5 comments) says:

    RRM, is someone impersonating you today? :-)

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  20. Reid (16,737 comments) says:

    I reckon the more widespread a loathing of criminals is, the more kids will be brought up with a worldview that you wouldn’t even contemplate going down that road, it is unthinkable.

    Thanks RRM appreciate that. Amongst criminals, I’m assuming Loffley would be reviled and he’ll need to go into protective custody. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone takes him out at some stage, just like they took out the sword guy.

    But he wasn’t thinking about that when he was doing it, day after day. All he was doing then was operating on auto-pilot, on instinct, as he knew it. No thought going on. Nothing more than a vague emotion from his heart that he’d long ago learned to ignore. That’s the problem. These people don’t make the same connections all of us do, when they’re doing this stuff. It just never occurs to them to think about what they’re doing. Until they do something they can’t hide, then they know they’re in trouble, then they think about it, but not, unfortunately, before that. It’s the why do they not think about it, that we need accurately to answer, if we’re to stop this from happening again and again and again.

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  21. Chuck Bird (4,913 comments) says:

    “Presuming that the evil piece of shit (Loffley) is a Maori, when are the elders of his race going to take ownership of these repetitive crimes against their children ?”

    Loffley does not sound like a Maori name to me?

    I hear there are a couple of men were in court for molesting boys. When are the liberals going to take ownership of these repetitive crimes against adolescent boys.

    That is as valid as your racist comment. Maori are overrepresented about two to one for serious child abuse. That is not good but they certainly are not the only ones abusing children.

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  22. CharlieBrown (1,054 comments) says:

    Shazzadude – The anti-smacking law was meant to help stop cases of child abuse wasn’t it? If so, then John Key should be a man of his word and fix the law. The national party are reknown for using the logic that making the law easier to break by making the definition of a law-breaker much more broad will stop people from breaking the law. Take for example alcohol law and drug law changes by those r-tards.

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  23. MT_Tinman (3,322 comments) says:

    When one of these scum kills their kid it’s two less in the cycle of abuse. The kid dead, the scum locked up until he’s past breeding.

    The third party, the mother, is the one factor not taken care of.

    Surely the solution is to make breeding without the ability to parent and support extremely uncomfortable while making sterilization free and easily obtained – even rewarded.

    Once the women stop popping replacements out willy-nilly the country will soon run out of both scum and potential victims.

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  24. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    I hear there are a couple of men were in court for molesting boys. When are the liberals going to take ownership of these repetitive crimes against adolescent boys.

    When are you going to stop making idiotic statements, Chucky?

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  25. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    When are the liberals going to take ownership of these repetitive crimes against adolescent boys.

    Attraction to teenage boys is not a political statement. Liberals did not invent these people. They have always been with us.

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  26. Chuck Bird (4,913 comments) says:

    eszett, it appears you have no problem with racist anti Maori comments but get upset when someone points out the far greater over representation of homosexuals when it come to the sexual abuse of adolescents.

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  27. RRM (10,104 comments) says:

    I hear there are a couple of men were in court for molesting boys. When are the liberals going to take ownership of these repetitive crimes against adolescent boys.

    Catholic priests and brothers were sexually assaulting small children (of both sexes) decades before the liberals made homosexuality trendy Chuck ;-)

    I imagine political liberals will “take ownership” of their pedophiles the minute you political conservatives decide to “take ownership” of your pedophiles…?? :-P

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  28. RF (1,492 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird. 4.56pm

    The problem exists because of limp wristed hand wringers who hide behind the “you are a racist” title. You talk about abuse.. I talk about murder and more than 2 to 1. Get real.

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  29. Chuck Bird (4,913 comments) says:

    RF, your source please.

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  30. Chuck Bird (4,913 comments) says:

    “Attraction to teenage boys is not a political statement. Liberals did not invent these people. They have always been with us”

    There is a difference now. Have you heard about the support the one convicted homosexual sex abuser gets and also the support an accused sexual abuser of adolescent boys gets?

    Parker would not have so many victims if it was not this PC bullshit that makes everyone scared of being called a homophobe that allowed this pervert to get away with his crimes for so long. I think his principal has a lot to answer for. The same applies in Wellington. If an adult male was taking schools girls to bed it would have been a different story.

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  31. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    @ FF. It’s the mother’s fault. The mothers fail the children. It’s hard to murder a child if the mother stands in the way.
    That Loffley murdered the child is virtually irrelevant. The bigger crime is being too drunk to seek help for your child’s injuries.
    Being too stupid to realise that your child is being regularly abused in front of you comes pretty close to criminal as well.

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  32. Chuck Bird (4,913 comments) says:

    “Being too stupid to realise that your child is being regularly abused in front of you comes pretty close to criminal as well.”

    That is an understatement. I assume the only reason the cow was not charged was the police made a deal with her so they thought they would increase the chance of a conviction. She should have been jailed as well.

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  33. Longknives (4,968 comments) says:

    The mother will be knocked up again by the end of the year- Can’t have her DPB handout dropping now can we??

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  34. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    RF, I believe it was reported that Loffley is PI, what ethinic group, I can not recall. Only reason why it springs to mind, is because at the time I recall thinking, “thank fuck he isn’t Maori”. I’m not proud of that thought.

    Left will lay blame and/or make excuses for this POS. Right will call for cutting benefits and harsher penalities.

    Here are the facts as I see them. Loffley killed this small child. His mother did not protect him. No excuses, no what ifs, no should have done something different. And JJ is dead.

    So the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff was fuck all help. I doubt a huge electric fence at the top of the cliff would have made a difference in this case. Do we remove the cliff?

    Or how about we make an example of the two above. Sterilize her and give him the death penalty. Send a clear message you take a life, you forfeit yours. You were given the gift of a child and wasted it? You forfeit the right to have another.

    Of course I know it won’t happen. And there will be those who will say “loffley didn’t stand a chance, he didn’t know any better”. Was JJ punched and thrown about like a sack of coal in downtown Auckland? Of course not. Because loffley knew it was wrong. Did lawrence take her child to cyfs or any other family member to protect him? No… because he was her meal ticket.

    Well the meal ticket is gone, tho another is on the way. I doubt very much that she h learned her lesson.

    RIP JJ.

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  35. OneTrack (3,374 comments) says:

    I blame colonisation

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  36. Reid (16,737 comments) says:

    No… because he was her meal ticket.

    There has to be more to it than that NW.

    All that oxytosin doesn’t just evaporate.

    Or are people like this really that callous?

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  37. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    Reid… I have no doubt she loved her son. She just didn’t love him enough to protect as she should have. End of story. End of JJ’s life.

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  38. Longknives (4,968 comments) says:

    If you ‘loved’ your kid would you blow Cannabis smoke in his face? Then go out partying and leave him to be beaten to death by your violent criminal boyfriend?

    I’m no expert but I’d suggest she didn’t give a flying fuck about this child…

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  39. Northland Wahine (673 comments) says:

    Longknives… can’t argue with that logic. I want to… but can’t.

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  40. RF (1,492 comments) says:

    Chuck bird. 5.43pm

    Source. How about 16 years in the Police dealing with these low life shit heads.

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  41. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Want to stop this cycle ? (a cycle that will never stop in NZ untill a different appoach is taken.)

    Quite simple.

    Hold the mother to account.

    When a mother on the DPB has her child murdered by her live in boyfriend, she gets life.
    Regardless of circumstances.

    If JJs mother knew she was going to go to jail for life if her boyfriend killed her sprog she would have been
    forced to act to defend her child like any other normal mother would have.

    These ferals like JJs mother need to be made more afraid of the consequences of the Law than
    they are from the bash from their boyfriend. Not the case at present.

    A simple solution

    Norhland Wahine @ 6.39 Correct, spot on.
    Make these feral slags so affraid of the consequenses that they do protect their kids out of the greater fear.

    Anyone care to argue that that approach would not work ?

    Longknives, motivate these slag mothers with fear,
    That will work.

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  42. Chuck Bird (4,913 comments) says:

    RF, the police used to think the perpetrators were nearly all male which has been proven to be quite wrong. Anecdotal evidence is not all that reliable. BTW it sounds like you are coming very close to referring to Maori in general as “these low life shit heads” if so that does not sound very good for the police.

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  43. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    The only way to motivate these feral shithead mothers is with fear.

    Fear will work.

    They need to fear the consequenses of the Law more than the fear of their boyfriend.

    Anyone care to argue ?

    There is the answer, why not do it ?

    Any better solutions ?

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  44. RF (1,492 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird 7.08pm

    Bull shit. Obviously you have had a very sheltered life and possibly reluctant to go out doors after the street lights come on. Sleep well knowing that others are watching your 6.

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  45. Nostalgia-NZ (5,322 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird: 7.08
    Of course the police had evidence to charge the mother with a number of crimes, but they apparently took an easy way out. Baby JJ had broken bones and his mother claimed he was clumsy even while also admitting that she was afraid that Loffley would kill him. JJ’s aunty gave compelling evidence of the boys’ fear of Loffley, presumably JJ was treated by a doctor. There were a number of events unfolding in a way that is very disturbing, none less than the nature of the investigation and who was charged.

    On your other point about the fiddler teachers, when I was thinking about Loffley it wasn’t the fiddler teachers that were so much on my mind by comparison to him, but the escapee fiddler sicko from the South Island.

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  46. Chuck Bird (4,913 comments) says:

    Just as well there is one less racist cop. I bet you would not have stated your racist views to other than very junior Maori cops.

    “Obviously you have had a very sheltered life and possibly reluctant to go out doors after the street lights come on.”

    I have no fear walking home from the pub here is Ngaruawahia. People in rural areas know they cannot depend on the police they depend on each other. I have good neighbours – a number being Maori.

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  47. RF (1,492 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird

    Don’t try and label me a racist as the term low life shit heads applies to anyone from all races that harms / kills children.

    FYI senior Maori cops that I have worked with come down very very hard on Maori offenders .. but I guess that does not fit your perception of racists cops.

    I suggest that you get out in the real world and not believe everything you read. What’s the standard phrase.. Some of my best friends are Maoris. Excited that you have some as neighbours

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  48. Nostalgia-NZ (5,322 comments) says:

    RF = FY1

    A new logarithm.

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  49. Reid (16,737 comments) says:

    The only way to motivate these feral shithead mothers is with fear. Anyone care to argue ?

    Er. Why not.

    Fear is the opposite of love, in that it’s cruelty.

    Unfortunately some women apparently, from what girlfriends have told me, get an adrenaline rush out of living with volatile, violent, unpredictable males like Loffley. Apparently, according to my girlfriends, there’s a certain category of female who likes their “power” their “anger” their “maledom.”

    Of course there’s a fine line between this, and someone who is an outright bastard, who knows no limits, who will take their anger out on any convenient “object.”

    And within that subset of women who get off on that class of male, some are incapable, through lack of education or otherwise, of distinguishing between men who’ll act like that and give they alone themselves a “rush,” and men who progress beyond that, to hallucinate they’re the king and the master, nothing can nor should nor will stop them, and they’ll just do what they want, with anyone who lives there.

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  50. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    Just as well there is one less racist cop. I bet you would not have stated your racist views to other than very junior Maori cops.

    Can someone please explain what a “racist” is ?

    I am really confused. Please help…

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  51. Nostalgia-NZ (5,322 comments) says:

    Try the yellow pages.

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  52. Scott1 (592 comments) says:

    What a waste of our time that he pleaded not guilty and yet doesn’t seem to have put up an even vaguely plausible defense.

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  53. RF (1,492 comments) says:

    Kea..

    How about someone that does not agree with ones opinion concerning race..

    That’s my understanding. It’s quite a good smoke screen and put down as you are meant to scramble around in denial.

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  54. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    Is it not racist to call them “yellow” ?

    I know you have to be careful using the word black in the UK, even for coffee. I heard that is considered racist.

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  55. Chuck Bird (4,913 comments) says:

    RF, I quote from the CYF booklet, “Child death from maltreatment” below. You challenged that view below. I ask you again for evident – your opinion is not evidence.

    Māori children are more exposed to the risk of fatal child maltreatment associated with having a stepparent, as Māori children are twice as likely as New Zealand European and other children to be raised in a blended family.25 As noted already, the small numbers and volatility for child death statistics means even more caution is needed when disaggregating the data by ethnic groups. With this additional caution in mind, in the five years from 1999 to 2003, Māori children died from maltreatment at an average annual rate of 1.5 per 100,000 children. Over the same period, New Zealand European and other children died at an average annual rate of 0.7 per 100,000 children.

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  56. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    Yes RF, your explanation seems to fit with observation.

    The other observation appears to be that, only “white” people, can be racist. Why are other colors not allowed to be racist ? Why are people with more interesting colored skin excluded from being racist ? Do they mind being excluded from things like that ?

    I am still confused. But thanks for trying to help.

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  57. rightoverlabour (137 comments) says:

    The government could do something to stop this – Death Penalty.

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  58. nasska (12,107 comments) says:

    Kea

    As always the “Urban Dictionary” sheds much light. Well worth a quick eyeballing.

    Ref: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=racist

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  59. RF (1,492 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird

    To take some heat out of the discussion. I appreciate that stats make fine reading and can be interpreted in many ways. It reminds me of two people.. One who reads books on sex and consideres themself an expert without actually doing the deed and the other who screws himself silly. I know who I would agree with.

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  60. Chuck Bird (4,913 comments) says:

    RF, Smokers used to hold a similar view.

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  61. RF (1,492 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird

    Nice one. Good night

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  62. RF (1,492 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird

    PS. Thats why I do not smoke after sex.

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  63. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    nasska, The Urban Dictionary did help: “Being white “

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  64. nasska (12,107 comments) says:

    The Urban Dictionary certainly gives a more expansive view of the ways the word can be used. I sometimes think that our social engineers have been more successful than we think.

    To me the fourth entry said it all.

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  65. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Reid @ 8.51

    What a drong, ludicrous, laughable, pathetic post.
    “Apparently, from what girlfriends have told me……..”
    (bet you never ever have had anything remotely like ‘a girlfriend.’)

    Have you ever thought to try and figure anything out for yourself you moron ?

    Well then, judging by your ridiculous post, nothing can ever be done.
    So what’s the point in trying ?

    You sad fuckwit.

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  66. Warren Murray (316 comments) says:

    Northlnd Wahine touches on something that has concened me during the trial (and others like this one). The mother’s inactions amounted to appalling negligence of her responsibilites. Has she been charged? She may not have struck the fatal blows, but she was culpable for allowing the cruelty go unchecked.

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  67. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    bereal, Every heard of a book called Fifty Shades of Grey ? :)

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  68. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Warren Murray @ 10.16 your onto something.
    See my suggestion to solve this national disgrace @ 7.05

    Make these slag, feral, shithead mothers accountable.
    Frighten them with such penalties that they are scared enough that they look after their sprogs
    like any normal mother would.

    That is an answer to this.

    Anyone seen any better or even ANY other suggestion to solve this ?

    Any reason why this approach would not work ?

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  69. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Longknives,
    The mother is already ”knocked up ” to Lofley. Who will his ”stepfather” be?

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  70. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    joanna

    if this slag, feral, moll knew that she would get life imprisionment if anything happened to this next
    sprog, and she believed that that would be for sure then there may be a chance to break the cycle.

    What other solution is there ?

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  71. Kea (13,580 comments) says:

    What other solution is there ?

    Stop paying women to have babies. No benefit, no WFF.

    The money saved can be used for top class education and health. You seldom see this sort of thing occur in working families.

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  72. Reid (16,737 comments) says:

    If it was the mother’s fault, then what culpability does Loffley have?

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  73. Shazzadude (531 comments) says:

    Charlie Brown: “Shazzadude – The anti-smacking law was meant to help stop cases of child abuse wasn’t it?”

    No, it was only implemented to stop parents using a legal loophole to get away with physical violence. There are other laws, such as our murder laws, or brutalising children or neglecting them that are in place to stop child abuse.

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  74. Chuck Bird (4,913 comments) says:

    The mother as I understand has lost custody for the moment. She should also lose guardianship permanently. I have heard of too many case of parents or relations raising a child and then a few years later the biological mother regains custody.

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  75. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    I blame Key as well as the scumbag. Key is the leader of the country. He has the power to sort this sort of shit. Nothing from him, not even a squeak.

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  76. Asuka (3 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird Make sure you have your facts straight before you go calling this person a “piece of shit”. You dont know them and you dont know what happened. NONE of you do.

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