Jones vs Greens agains

November 11th, 2012 at 7:55 am by David Farrar

Adam Bennett at NZ Herald reports:

Northland-based Labour list MP has again hit out at the Green Party for opposing development of the regions’s resources, including oil and gas, which he says could help reduce spiralling Maori unemployment.

Energy and Resources Minister Phil Heatley this week announced which areas, including a large section of seabed off Ninety Mile Beach, would be opened up for oil and gas exploration next year. He said the Government had begun consultation with relevant iwi.

Green Party oceans spokesman Gareth Hughes said the Government was “gambling with New Zealand’s economy” by allowing the exploration in deep water, “because if there is a leak there is no sure way to stop it”.

This is just exploration, not drilling. The are against us even knowing what it down there.

But Mr Jones, who has clashed with the Greens before over the prospect of mining in Northland and also over the party’s criticism of the fishing industry, said Mr Hughes’ opposition was premature.

“Let the information be uncovered first. It may be that the area is commercially barren, not unlike the minds conceiving that Green rhetoric.”

Mr Jones did not think the prospects of any significant oil and gas industry in Northland in the short term were high, “but in the absence of information you can guarantee you’ll never see it up there”.

“Let these decisions be made in a rational fashion, not this kneejerk emotionalism that one comes to expect from the Green Party.”

Decisions made on science, not kneejerk emotionalism? That would be a good thing.

If only Shane was speaking for Labour. Alas. Spokesperson Moana Mackey tweeted:

No it’s his personal view

Labour needs a couple more MPs who are pro-economy and pro-science.

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27 Responses to “Jones vs Greens agains”

  1. jaba (2,068 comments) says:

    Mackey is a waste of space .. so who will be leaving 1st, Shearer from leader or Jones from the party?

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  2. bhudson (4,720 comments) says:

    The Greens – the progressive party for NZ.

    Progressively poorer, progressively smaller, progressively isolated.

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  3. Keeping Stock (9,789 comments) says:

    I’ve also just blogged on this. Shane Jones is absolutely right to hammer the Greens for “kneejerk emotionalism”. Oil has done Taranaki no harm, so why shouldn’t Northland at least investigate the potential for undersea wealth?

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/jones-unleashes-on-greens.html

    And isn’t it time that the MSM stopped running to Gareth Hughes for newsy quotes, and asked him to back up some of his allegations with facts?

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  4. Pete George (21,812 comments) says:

    It also seems to be Shane Jones versus the leader lacking Labour caucus. All of the obvious contenders for replacing Shearer have too many inherent negatives.

    Shane Jones isn’t Mr Popular within Labour, but they don’t need someone who can cobble together a bare majority of caucus mates. Labour needs a major shakeup. Could Shane Jones be the one who could do that? I can’t see anyone else who would make much difference in revilatising and rebuilding an new Labour.

    But I don’t think the current Labour lot would have the gumption to think outside the refailing square they seem boxed in by.

    http://yournz.org/2012/11/11/another-shearer-spear-but-difficult-choices/

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  5. Keeping Stock (9,789 comments) says:

    I doubt it Pete; there’s more likelihood of Jones succeeding Winston Peters than any of the Davids…

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  6. Pete George (21,812 comments) says:

    I agree KS, I don’t expect it to happen, Labour are stuck in quicksand and I don’t think they are capable of thinking outside their deflating bubble.

    I just don’t see anyone within either the ABC or the DC cliques as up to doing what Labour needs, so the obvious option is to get someone independent of both.

    If they do nothing or replace the same old with the same old then they will effectively end up with Russel Norman leading their coalition.

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  7. jaba (2,068 comments) says:

    the PG link at 8:35 is correct .. one other option, too late now, is to find someone in the real world and bring him/her is at the 1st opportunity. A left version of John Key.

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  8. Keeping Stock (9,789 comments) says:

    If they do nothing or replace the same old with the same old then they will effectively end up with Russel Norman leading their coalition.

    And they think there’s a problem with emigration NOW?

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  9. FarmGeek (5 comments) says:

    “This is just exploration, not drilling. The Greens are against us even knowing what it down there.”

    The Deepwater Horizon was drilling an exploratory well in the Gulf of Mexico when it exploded.

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  10. TM (78 comments) says:

    The oil companies have shown they still cannot effectively control a deep sea oil spill. We shouldn’t allow deep sea drilling until there are more robust well closing methods. The oil will still be there, and will only increase in value. And I say this a a BP PLC shareholder.

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  11. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    The Gulf of Mexico mishap is often used as an example of what can go wrong. Water quality quickly returned to pre spill levels (not good anyway). The oil is broken down by marine organisms in short time. Do not believe all the hysteria put out by the green movement, who have other agendas.

    The fact is that many of the clean up attempts do more harm than good. This is well known, but they do it anyway to appeal to the public need to “do something”. The response is based on politics, not science.

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  12. duggledog (1,113 comments) says:

    Keeping stock don’t worry! The emigration will be replaced with Immigration, from the Philippines, India, PNG, Kiribati, Iran, Afghanistan, all the stans. It’ll be sweet.

    Had to laugh at Jones’ assertion about helping to stem spiralling Maori unemployment. How is offshore drilling or exploration going to help that?

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  13. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Had to laugh at Jones’ assertion about helping to stem spiralling Maori unemployment. How is offshore drilling or exploration going to help that

    Ask Australia.

    You will find plenty of Maori folk there to ask. However you may find they are a bit busy working hard and earning heaps of money, so don’t take up too much of their valuable time.

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  14. Liberty (212 comments) says:

    Jones is just picking a fight with labour. So he can jump ship to NZF.
    NZF old war horse is fast running out of spark and will need to be replaced before the next election.

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  15. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Jones is right about oil exploraration but dead wrong about the fisheries. The science shows that we are fishing way down the food chain and our history of disasters of fish stock collapses speaks for itself. Unfortunately the red greens solution will be to ban whitey from fishing and leave it to the iwi and their Russian mates to go on plundering.

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  16. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Good I hope he does jump. I’m probably forced to Vote NZF next election for want of a decent choice, unless a miracle happens,and the conservatives dump the fundy stuff.

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  17. mister nui (883 comments) says:

    FarmGeek said:

    The Deepwater Horizon was drilling an exploratory well in the Gulf of Mexico when it exploded.

    I think you’ll find geek, that the exploration being referenced here is seismic surveys, not yet an exploratory well.

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  18. mister nui (883 comments) says:

    TM said:

    The oil companies have shown they still cannot effectively control a deep sea oil spill. We shouldn’t allow deep sea drilling until there are more robust well closing methods. The oil will still be there, and will only increase in value. And I say this a a BP PLC shareholder.

    What a load of hogwash TM. There are many wells drilled at “deep sea” depths, that have effective well control methods. The DWH explosion and subsequent oil leak was primarily the result of poor downhole work, and secondly an untested BOP. It had nothing to do with well closure methods.

    And I say this as an experienced offshore oil and gas industry worker, who has read, and UNDERSTANDS the DWH report, not some leftie shill.

    Furthermore, I don’t see the oil price increasing in the near to medium term future, there are far too many elephant sized gas discoveries being made, and a significant amount of large to elephant sized oil discoveries being made. Cheap gas is destroying the oil boom.

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  19. mister nui (883 comments) says:

    Had to laugh at Jones’ assertion about helping to stem spiralling Maori unemployment. How is offshore drilling or exploration going to help that?

    fuckwit.

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  20. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    mister nui, the greens want us to believe the oil is running out, so they can dismantle our society. We are not even close to running out of fossil fuel and they know it, so they want to stop the supply artificially.

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  21. TM (78 comments) says:

    mister nui, there were deficiencies in the installation of the well, but this is not an isolated problem. There are an average of 6 loss of control accidents in the gulf of Mexico each year. Three of the biggest companies in oil and gas were involved in DWH. All had health and safety as a genuine priority. But if the safety systems don’t function, there is no robust recovery method, unlike capping an on-shore rig.

    And oil prices will stay down as long as the world is going through this anemic recovery. If the US and/or China start booming again, prices will also rocket.

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  22. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    TM: You’re the latest Green idiot to come here demonstrating a little knowledge of the oil industry and a lot of help from Mr Google…I dont know who Mr Nui is, but my own experience tells me that he is personally familiar with the industry…you clearly aren’t.

    That said, I have gone on record as saying that before the Gulf spill I would have rubbished claims that such a collossal series of f…ups could have happened in the 21st century….That incident proved that greed, stupidity, and taking short cuts will still – in the right combination – lead to disaster.

    But the answer is not a blanket ban on all oil and gas exploration of any kind, which is the Green answer, and always will be, because nothing else meets their agenda. The answer is to make the disincentives so unappealing that the industry will literally do everything possible to avoid such disasters.

    To take an extreme example, if we passed a law requiring any overseas company to have two directors on home detention in New Zealand while a well was drilled, and if there was an uncontrolled blowout those two would be summarily shot, how likely do you think it is that a blowout would be allowed to occur?

    Of course we would never pass such a law, but financial disincentives of the right kind can be just as unappealing for large corporates.

    God, I have just re-read your latest post….stop now man, before you make a bigger idiot of yourself! “Capped wells”….yeah, that’s a well used term….

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  23. mister nui (883 comments) says:

    Yeah, laugh my tits off at TM trying to sound like some sort of expert. It is easier not to even debate idiots like this, just let them carry on copying and pasting shite they find on Google, making evermore bigger fools of themselves.

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  24. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    He might think Barite is a heavy metal…band Mr Nui?

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  25. mikenmild (8,817 comments) says:

    You’ve reminded me of the drastic solution to the perceived road safety problem: install a razor sharp spike from the centre of the steering wheel to within a couple of centimetres of the driver’s chest.

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  26. ChardonnayGuy (1,023 comments) says:

    Er, David, you do realise that John Banks believes in creationist pseudo-science himself, don’t you? Hardly the best person to be steering the charter schools ratification programme?

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  27. TM (78 comments) says:

    Nui and David, I apologise for putting facts in my posts. I don’t have direct experience with drilling, but I have worked in the process engineering industry for a couple of decades, including oil and gas, but mostly dairy etc. You probably have even worked on equipment built by my company. I have been involved in many process safety reviews of oil and gas, and have regularly discussed DWH as well as other prominent disasters (like Piper Alpha) as they always come up during inductions and safety training. The point is that these accidents continue to happen because of multiple points of failure, and when they do occur, there is no effective response. BP et al did not operate their rig much differently to how many others are operated.

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