On Hamas’s side the last thing they want is for Abbas’s request to succeed. A political win of this magnitude would be very damaging for them and the other more terrorist groups among the Palestinians.

Both groups have their own agendas but I don’t think “protecting our people” figures very highly.

The Iron dome seems to be working quite well knocking out many but not all missiles

The Iron Dome system works out where the rocket is going to fall and only fires one of its own missiles at it if it’s heading for a populated area. So it intentionally lets some Palestinian rockets carry on. No point firing off expensive missiles at rockets that aren’t likely to be putting lives at risk.

But it’s hard to hold anyone to account one they’re out of living memory

And that my friend is why I believe Israel has a right to exist.

The Muslims can not un-invent it. The people living there now, did not make this mess. They are just ordinary decent folk born into a difficult situation. They are not religious/Zionist nuts. The same applies to the people of Palestine. The vast majority on both sides are not into this. They are just doing what they can to survive. I feel for them all.

I have seen nothing that justifies the establishment of a Jewish homeland. They may have historical links to the area, but so do many others. It is incredible that a person from Russia/USA etc, whos family has lived there for generations, can have more rights to occupy Israel, than a person whos family has lived there for centuries. I do not deny the validity of Jews living there. My problem is the -exclusive- rights they claim to have.

It is not ok to go about claiming others land on the basis of religion or long past historical connections. Imagine if we all did that ! We could all claim rights in Africa, for a start. The holocaust provides no logical reason either. Many other peoples have suffered terribly through out history and do not get a country as compensation.

At some point, not too far from now, the Palestinians are going to give up on agitating for an independent state and campaign for full civil rights within Israel. Watch for it, because it is coming, and there’s nothing that anyone can do about it.

Tom, now your talking !

I long ago thought that if the Palestinians used the democratic process, of Israel, their situation would be far more advanced by now. If they integrated themselves into normal Israeli society, from the start, we would be seeing a very different state than we do now. Jews and Muslims have lived, and do live, along side each other in harmony. All we ever hear about is the conflict. Even in Israel today, there are many Muslims who happily live there, work and run business.

But when you address the problems by firing rockets, it is human nature that people will become more extreme in their views. People do not “fence sit” when their homes or families are at risk. They pick a side. This applies to both sides. The attacks must stop. The rockets have done nothing to advance the cause of Palestine, it is simply not working for them. It goes without saying that Israel most stop military action also.

I would like to see a blended state of Israel, where both sides can prosper together. Jews, Christian, Muslims and even us atheists, can work together in a climate of mutual respect and cooperation.

mikenmild (5,653) Says:
November 21st, 2012 at 9:14 pm

I’d be interested in Kiwibloggers’ recommendations for a good introductory history to the Middle East conflicts.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/zionismpromotes.cfm
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/herzl/index.cfm
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/zionism/ZionistState/historical.cfm

“….Tim, tell your bosses to dismantle the blockade and work through a process that will enable peaceful cooperation. Ongoing conflict makes Israel less, not more secure….”

Fakeastinians are actually jubilant!…….. They’ve got western governments to redefine the Palestinians’ war of extermination against Israel as a land dispute where Israel is in the wrong.

They’ve got the western media to transmit that the Palestinians are the poor persecuted victims of Israel, so that the west stops Israel from defending itself by really coming after them.

They’ve got the western intelligentsia to all but delegitimise Israel altogether, having bought their lies hook, line and sinker.

So why should you despair Luc ? They think they are winning!

However, I have been doing a bit of research on the 2005 pullout of the settlers from Gaza by Israel, which I have maintained was to enable attention to be turned completely to colonising the West Bank.

But another reason that I tend to forget about is the demographic bomb represented by the Gaza population, and that was admitted as a prime motivator of that 2005 pullout by none other than Simon Peres, the Ariel Sharon’s deputy prime minister:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/aug/16/comment.israelandthepalestinians

I’d recommend Bernard Wasserstein, Israelis and Palestinians: Why Do They Fight? Can They Stop?

Hamas can not expect to fire hundreds of rockets and get no response from the target. [..] If Hamas does not like Gaza getting hit, then they can stop the rockets.

Let’s reverse this.

Israel cannot expect to forcible keep millions of people under occupation in an open air prison and in near poverty and get no response. If Israel does not like getting hit, then they can stop the occupation.

Those critical of Israel are offering no alternative to address the rocket attacks.

They offer it consistently: end the occupation and honour UN Resolution 242.

When asked for one they quickly change the subject, to historical wrongs or other issues. Maybe those issues have merit, but they will not protect people from rockets.

When Israel is asked to end the occupation, they quickly change the subject to the supposed genocidal urges of untrustworthy Palestinians. This could be argued in circles forever.

But it doesn’t matter anyway. The death knell for Israel already sounded earlier this year. Jews are now by a small margin a minority in Israel/Palestine (surprising, huh?), and the continuing troubles in Gaza and the expanding tentacles of settlements in the West Bank mean that Israel can no longer politically separate itself from the Palestinians. At some point, not too far from now, the Palestinians are going to give up on agitating for an independent state and campaign for full civil rights within Israel. Watch for it, because it is coming, and there’s nothing that anyone can do about it.