The barbarity of Saudi Arabia towards women

November 30th, 2012 at 3:04 pm by David Farrar

Luke Harding at the Guardian reports:

Saudi Arabia has been accused of behaving like Big Brother after introducing technology that alerts male “guardians” by text whenever under their guardianship leave the country.

The kingdom already bans women from driving and excludes them from most workplaces. It also disapproves of women’s sport. Since last week it has been operating a new electronic system that tracks all cross-border movements.

The system functions even if a woman is travelling with her husband or male “guardian”, with a text sent immediately to the man. Saudi women must get formal approval from their guardians to travel abroad, and have to hand in an infamous “yellow slip”, signed by a male, at the airport or border.

Women in are like chattels. Their culture is deeply flawed, to put it mildly.

Women need the permission of their guardian to marry, divorce, travel, study, get a job, open a bank account, have non-vital surgery etc. I suspect slaves only had a few more rights than some women in Saudia Arabia.

If a Saudi woman’s husband dies, and she wishes to remarry – she needs the permission of her son!

And don’t even start me on honor killings or sentencing rape victims to punishments because they were alone with a man.

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32 Responses to “The barbarity of Saudi Arabia towards women”

  1. Harriet (5,126 comments) says:

    You make it sound like a holocaust……isn’t it a shame that the likes of Abu Luc and others on the left don’t want the allies to wage war in the ME..and because of ‘colateral damage’! :cool:

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  2. scrubone (3,104 comments) says:

    Yes, but is the law working?

    Oh sorry, I understood from the Section 59 debate that intrusive goverment lawmaking was ok, so long as the law worked as intended.

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  3. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    How do you reconcile the views expressed in this post with one earlier today arguing that it should be legal to pay men and women different rates for doing the same job?

    [DPF: 20 demerits for lying. I never said that, and I find repulsive your linking this issue to that]

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  4. wreck1080 (3,959 comments) says:

    Men are stronger than women so have physical control over them.

    Seems rather barbaric and prehistoric, but, they’ve got the oil so you’ve got to eat dead rats to do the business .

    Personally I’d prefer that we don’t do business with countries that abuse human rights like china etc but you have to.

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  5. OneTrack (3,226 comments) says:

    It adds to the “diversity” – what’s the problem?

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  6. scrubone (3,104 comments) says:

    Hamnida: are you refering to the one where he said “Women should be paid the same as men – of course.”

    Maybe it was another one? Perhaps you could provide a link.

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  7. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Saudi Arabia is like Israel in the sense that it has impunity in international law because the US deems it so essential to the US’ ‘national interests’ that it will protect those two states come hell or high water.

    I would fully support sanctions on both these countries for their sins against human rights, and look forward to the day when the UN acts in concert against all forms of repression and oppression, whether based in religion or on mere prejudice, the latter being well represented on this blog.

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  8. Dave Stringer (188 comments) says:

    David
    Having lived in Saudi I can tell you that the people who are least offended by the staus of women there are the women themselves.

    I met women with degrees from London, New York, Cambridge MA, and many other places, who I expected to rebel against the “place of women” over there. THat fact that they don’t is perhaps explained by the fact that women are, ingeneral, elevated on pedestals and treated as the most precious thing imaginable.

    I don’t condone the role of women in most Arab states, but there are many places out of arabia (such as parts of India and Pakistan,) where women are held in much lower esteem, and treated far worse than ‘most’ Saudi women, and I don’t want people to lose sight of that fact.

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  9. Dave Stringer (188 comments) says:

    LUC
    your view of “rights” is not, I believe, a view of “Human” rights, but rather a view of what “Western Anglo Saxon Protestant” s believe their rights should be. I remember the story told by a policeman here in NZ about the American who thought the rights he had under the US constitution were “human rights” and he was entitled to them here even when he’s been a naughty boy.

    The rights of humans, as far as I can tell from nature, are the right to breath and die. Everything else is either by common consent or legal establishment.

    Or can you tell me where I’m wrong and enumerate the “human” rights that we are all entitled to that I am missing from my list?

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  10. the conservative (66 comments) says:

    Saudi is just not repressive for women, it is repressive everywhere; I blogged on this story yesterday, and in part this is what I posted:

    I worked in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia for one year—one year too long I might add—and these were just some of the repressive restrictions I faced and observed while I was there; just some of the things that are not absolute wrongs in the eyes of our liberal, cultural relativists:

    I had to surrender my passport on arrival; I didn’t get it back until I had collected about 10 official stamps from my employer showing that I had adhered to my contract and had a colleague guarantor to cover me for any debts I had.

    My wife had to wear a head scarf when she went out, and she couldn’t go out alone.

    We couldn’t travel from city to city without official documentation.

    We couldn’t buy any alcohol; of course many of us used to brew our own, but if we got caught it would be punishable by instant deportation or caning.

    If you were at a restaurant during prayer time, you would be kicked out, either by the owner or by the Mutawa, the religious police.

    If we needed something done to our house, I had to leave work and go home as it was against the law for a serviceman to visit our house with only my wife present.

    Saudi women had to wear fully-covered burqas outside their homes. They couldn’t go out alone nor could they drive and most couldn’t work.

    Saudi women had separate places to eat in restaurants from men, etc. Have you ever considered how Saudi women eat or drink through a burqa? Well I got a glimpse of it one day; they have to push their food or drink up under their burqas from their wastelines to their mouths.

    If a Saudi man was wealthy enough and could afford many wives, he could do so, which essentially meant no wives for poor Saudi men.

    Saudi boys could not speak to Saudi girls, and as a result their first sexual experience was often with another man. It was also common knowledge that young, male workers from third-world nations were often picked up, raped, murdered, and buried in the desert.

    The most vile aspect of the Saudi culture is how they decapitate people in public at Chop Chop Square in downtown Riyadh—see images below. When an execution was about to take place, the Mutawa would round up and force people to watch. I actually went to Chop Chop Square, but never saw an actual beheading—I don’t think I missed much.

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  11. arkhad (68 comments) says:

    Amazing to think that there are NZ women alive today who recall having to travel on their husbands passport and certainly could not have a mortgage in their name. Have to hope things will shift in Saudi at some point surely?

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  12. gravedodger (1,570 comments) says:

    “Women in Saudi Arabia are ‘like ‘ chattels”, nooo they are Chattels through out the regions who worship the god of the child molester, the queeran supports that position.
    Yes many women support the “ownership, bigamy, stoning, beheading, “honour” killings,etal, the alternative being???

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  13. David Garrett (7,541 comments) says:

    Where are all the defenders of “diversity” I wonder?

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  14. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    Dave Stringer…..real individual human rights are objective and universal regardless of whether they are actually recognised and respected.

    Best explanation here…

    http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=arc_ayn_rand_man_rights

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  15. UpandComer (537 comments) says:

    haha cultural relativism can go fuck itself. New Zealand is superior. We better not end up like Britain.

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  16. Manolo (14,055 comments) says:

    Savages and beasts beyond description. True followers of the “religion of peace”.

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  17. Manolo (14,055 comments) says:

    <blockquote.Saudi Arabia is like Israel…
    Lucy, you’re a true moron without any redeeming feature. Go away, comrade.

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  18. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @Dave Stringer
    Or can you tell me where I’m wrong and enumerate the “human” rights that we are all entitled to

    I find the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a pretty good place to start, Dave.

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  19. Inky_the_Red (761 comments) says:

    Earlier this year Saudi Troups were sent to Bahrain to put down protests.

    Saudi Arabia is a fanatical nation ruled absolutely by one family. About the world stopped trading with this brutal dictatorship. Oh no we can’t they are nice to West and have lots of oil.

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  20. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    Clip of a wonderfully impressive lady explaining the facts of life to a Mullah

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gAKE6MwVqyA

    Don’t watch, Luc. You’d find it too distressing.

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  21. James B (7 comments) says:

    “Women in Saudi Arabia are like chattels. Their culture is deeply flawed, to put it mildly.”

    DPF, how could you comment on that article without pointing out the root of the behavior is that the Saudis are simply following the teachings of Islam, as described in great detail in the Koran, which is the word of God as taken down by Mohammed and cannot therefore be changed in any way and must be adhered to exactly?

    And these kinds of people are some of those that are behind the move for the UN to have control over the internet so they can enforce their views on defaming Islam (i.e. pointing out its grotesqueness) on the rest of us, and not just those within their borders.

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  22. Twinkletoes (54 comments) says:

    James, not only the internet. The Istanbul process which started a few years ago intends to make the criticism of religions a criminal offence world wide – of course the only religion which is criticised today is Islam but apparently Hilary has already signed 16/18 at the UN promoting this resolution. Heaven help us!

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  23. annie (539 comments) says:

    Dave Stringer (98) Says:
    November 30th, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    David
    Having lived in Saudi I can tell you that the people who are least offended by the staus of women there are the women themselves.

    I met women with degrees from London, New York, Cambridge MA, and many other places, who I expected to rebel against the “place of women” over there. THat fact that they don’t is perhaps explained by the fact that women are, ingeneral, elevated on pedestals and treated as the most precious thing imaginable.

    You know, I get really really sick of men who are still in thrall to the rather sick male orientalist fantasy started by Burton. Could these women perhaps not be rebelling because of what would happen to them if they did? Nah, they love it.

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  24. Dave Stringer (188 comments) says:

    THE SCORNED

    I followed the link, and the first words that hit my eye were :

    “Rights” are a moral concept

    So “in olden days a glimpse of stocking was regarded as shocking, now – Heaven knows, anything goes”, and that was written when the idea of a man runnning naked through a public park would have been judged imoral by 99.999999% of the population.

    So mate, what exactly are these Human Rights that you think the entire race should embrace.

    LUC
    as regards the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, I remember when my two sons declared a Universal Right to eat what they chose, as nobody bought the sweets they wanted to eat, and they couldn’t stand the pains of hunger, they soon reverted to what was acceptable in their “community”. Calling something Universal doesn’t mean it is abided by thruout the universe, and more than the Boston Redsox winning the World Series makes them the best team in the world!

    ANNIE
    I spoke to most of the women whose comments I referred to IN EUROPE! While there asre one or two horror stories about a woman’s life in Saudi, there are far more stories of women who are respected, well treated and happy. The fact that their version of happiness and yours are different doesn’t mean that yourus is right. For instance, the idea that a man can father a child and leave it forever unsupported and dependant om the State would cause most Saudi men and women to shake their heads in disbelief.

    As for the “sick male orientalist fantasy started by Burton” I thought the guy’s name was Adam!

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  25. Dave Stringer (188 comments) says:

    JAmes B

    Can I suggest you read the Talmud? THere you will find very detailed instructions on how a man should behave towards a woman, including some interesting instruction on arousal! If you are from a judeochristian based faith, you should know from whence it came.

    Before you ask, I am a practicing Gaian.

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  26. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Their culture is deeply flawed, to put it mildly.

    So is ours. Men in NZ are treated with the same degree of inequality, but you just can not see it. We are a deeply anti-male society, where hard line feminist views are regarded as normal.

    Here are a few more facts. Saudi men also receive very harsh sentences under the law, but all we ever hear about are the women, from pussy whipped Western men. You also take the typically ill informed and ignorant view that women are the “victims” of strict Islamic law. Many Saudi women would find that offensive DPF. Women can also be conservative Muslims and are no less strict, and in fact, frequently are more so. Women are part of this, not helpless victims that have had Islam imposed on them.

    I disagree strongly with the way people are treated there. I am socially very liberal and the place appalls me. But my concern and humanity goes beyond just that part of the population I may want to sleep with. I also think we need to fix the disgusting way men are treated here in NZ, before lecturing to other, far older, cultures. We are hardly going to convince them to change, given what we have on offer. We also have the most angry and unhappy women I have ever met anywhere in the world.

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  27. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    Before you ask, I am a practicing Gaian.

    A fucking idiot is what you are.

    I remember when my two sons declared a Universal Right to eat what they chose…While there are one or two horror stories about a woman’s life in Saudi, there are far more stories of women who are respected, well treated and happy.

    Twat.

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  28. Dave Stringer (188 comments) says:

    wat

    your lack of vocabulary clearly marks you as uneducated, and therefore to be pitied, member of the “i’m entitled” class with nothing constructive to say and only abuse to hurl.

    Such a shame.

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  29. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    [T] wat, As is happens I was talking with a lawyer friend this morning about how men are treated by our system. We could tell you a few stories that may shock you. In NZ a man can be thrown out of his house, prevented from seeing his children and imprisoned, all based on unproven and, often, unprovable allegations from a female. All this can be happen based on how a woman claims to “feel”. This is common place in our justice system and women frequently use this bias to manipulate the system when relationships end.

    Saudi people would be shocked at what we allow to happen here. Young women paid by the state to have babies, with no support from the father or his family. Children of those women frequently beaten to death or otherwise mistreated. A huge amount of alcohol related crime costing us billions. I could go on…

    We are not an example they would wish to follow. They see us as the uncivilised barbarians. In someways I tend to agree.

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  30. mikenmild (11,719 comments) says:

    Good point about what differing cultures can find incomprehensible about each other.

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  31. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    your lack of vocabulary clearly marks you as uneducated, and therefore to be pitied, member of the “i’m entitled” class with nothing constructive to say and only abuse to hurl.

    Of course, there is no logic at all behind such a claim. This is simply you attempting what you believe is a superior insult and put-down. Except it’s not really very good is it.

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  32. Sean (301 comments) says:

    On a positive note, women in Saudi can get a divorce if their husband is a smoker and that affects the health and well-being of the children.

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