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	<title>Comments on: The power of cartoons</title>
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	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: kiwi in america</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051605</link>
		<dc:creator>kiwi in america</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 19:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[All I stated was the current political reality - Obama and Netanyahu dont get on. If Bibi is re-elected in January (not guaranteed), the bad blood between the two will continue and the side effect will be an increased likelihood of a unillateral Israeli strike]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I stated was the current political reality &#8211; Obama and Netanyahu dont get on. If Bibi is re-elected in January (not guaranteed), the bad blood between the two will continue and the side effect will be an increased likelihood of a unillateral Israeli strike</p>
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		<title>By: kiwi in america</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051599</link>
		<dc:creator>kiwi in america</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 19:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051599</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[mikenmild
Every Arab leader worth their stripes urged Arafat to accept Barak&#039;s deal in 2000 - the Israelis asceded to 97% of his territorial demands (further than any Israeli leader had ever before offered) and agreed to make up the disputed 3% with other territory but it wasn&#039;t enough. Arafat wanted a guaranteed right of return - a form of demographic slow suicide. He also didnt just walk away - he ordered a second bloody Intefada - it was THAT that pretty much destroyed him. As Abba Eban (the Israeli Ambassador to the UN in the 60&#039;s) famously said &quot;the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity&quot;!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mikenmild<br />
Every Arab leader worth their stripes urged Arafat to accept Barak&#8217;s deal in 2000 &#8211; the Israelis asceded to 97% of his territorial demands (further than any Israeli leader had ever before offered) and agreed to make up the disputed 3% with other territory but it wasn&#8217;t enough. Arafat wanted a guaranteed right of return &#8211; a form of demographic slow suicide. He also didnt just walk away &#8211; he ordered a second bloody Intefada &#8211; it was THAT that pretty much destroyed him. As Abba Eban (the Israeli Ambassador to the UN in the 60&#8242;s) famously said &#8220;the Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>By: mikenmild</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051596</link>
		<dc:creator>mikenmild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 19:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051596</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I doubt that there is any difference in the way the President Obama will approach Iran and the approach that would have been adopted by a putative-President Romney. We can&#039;t deal in counterfactuals in any event.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt that there is any difference in the way the President Obama will approach Iran and the approach that would have been adopted by a putative-President Romney. We can&#8217;t deal in counterfactuals in any event.</p>
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		<title>By: kiwi in america</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051595</link>
		<dc:creator>kiwi in america</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051595</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If the threat of an attack on Iran is to end, the Iranians would have to verifably give up their nuclear programme - not likely to happen in my opinion. Obama&#039;s re-election has probably increased the likelihood of an Israeli strike because the Mullahs see Obama as weaker and less likely to impose truly crippling sanctions than Romney and Netanyahu already believes the relationship between him and Obama has weakened to the point that the US would never sanction even tacitly any pre-emptive attack whereas Romney was more likely to what Reagan did in 1981 when the Israelis attacked and destroyed Saddam Hussein&#039;s nascent nuclear weapons programme at Osirik - Reagan feigned US anger after the attack but tacitly approved of it before hand.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the threat of an attack on Iran is to end, the Iranians would have to verifably give up their nuclear programme &#8211; not likely to happen in my opinion. Obama&#8217;s re-election has probably increased the likelihood of an Israeli strike because the Mullahs see Obama as weaker and less likely to impose truly crippling sanctions than Romney and Netanyahu already believes the relationship between him and Obama has weakened to the point that the US would never sanction even tacitly any pre-emptive attack whereas Romney was more likely to what Reagan did in 1981 when the Israelis attacked and destroyed Saddam Hussein&#8217;s nascent nuclear weapons programme at Osirik &#8211; Reagan feigned US anger after the attack but tacitly approved of it before hand.</p>
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		<title>By: mikenmild</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051588</link>
		<dc:creator>mikenmild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:53:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Neither side is prepared to pay the price necessary for peace,, so both choose war. No Palestinian movement will ever go as far as Arafat did in the early 90s towards compromise. That backdown destroyed him and his movement and that message is pretty clear to today&#039;s Palestinian leaders.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neither side is prepared to pay the price necessary for peace,, so both choose war. No Palestinian movement will ever go as far as Arafat did in the early 90s towards compromise. That backdown destroyed him and his movement and that message is pretty clear to today&#8217;s Palestinian leaders.</p>
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		<title>By: kiwi in america</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051585</link>
		<dc:creator>kiwi in america</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051585</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Correct - until Hamas, Fatah and Hezbollah renounce terror and recognize the right of Israel to exist, there will never be any lasting peace because Israel will not participate in the formation of a state on its doorstep some of whose principals dont believe it is legitimate. Israelis want peace for sure - but not at any price.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correct &#8211; until Hamas, Fatah and Hezbollah renounce terror and recognize the right of Israel to exist, there will never be any lasting peace because Israel will not participate in the formation of a state on its doorstep some of whose principals dont believe it is legitimate. Israelis want peace for sure &#8211; but not at any price.</p>
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		<title>By: mikenmild</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051580</link>
		<dc:creator>mikenmild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051580</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Business as usual then. No commitment to a peaceful solution from either side;ongoing sporadic violence with periodic outbreaks of more serious conflict. The Israeli election will be here soon - is it time to turn our attention back to whether or not to attack Iran?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Business as usual then. No commitment to a peaceful solution from either side;ongoing sporadic violence with periodic outbreaks of more serious conflict. The Israeli election will be here soon &#8211; is it time to turn our attention back to whether or not to attack Iran?</p>
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		<title>By: kiwi in america</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051579</link>
		<dc:creator>kiwi in america</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 18:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051579</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[mikenmild
What you are suggesting is that Hamas are the ones trying to influence the outcome of the Israeli elections since THEY are the ones controlling the timing of the massive escalation of rocket attacks. The date of the Israeli election in January 2013 was announced on 9 October BEFORE the escalation of the rocket attacks. Knowing the likely bi partisan response would be some kind of IDF incursion into the Gaza Strip, the timing seems way too coincidental. Any failure by any Israeli politician of any political hue to respond to such a high level of provocation would be tantamount to political suicide - something Hamas would well know. The size and scale of the escalation was pretty much GUARANTEED to provoke a response regardless of whether an Israeli election was impending or not. Now perhaps politics is shaping to some extent the precise contour of the military response but frankly the only new element in 2012 not present in the last massive wave of rocket attacks is the presence of the Iron Dome defence system which Hamas may have assumed their sheer volume of rockets would overwhelm. Whilst that has been true for the areas most proximate to Gaza within range of the smaller rockets of which Hamas has larger stockpiles, it is clear that Iron Dome has blocked all the larger nastier Iranian longer range missiles and the vast majorty of the shorter range missiles.

The truth remains: no (or minimal) rocket attacks from Hamas - no incursions into Gaza by Israel (except random surgical strikes on known terrorists on long held Israeli target lists - actions that go on regardless of rocket related provocations)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mikenmild<br />
What you are suggesting is that Hamas are the ones trying to influence the outcome of the Israeli elections since THEY are the ones controlling the timing of the massive escalation of rocket attacks. The date of the Israeli election in January 2013 was announced on 9 October BEFORE the escalation of the rocket attacks. Knowing the likely bi partisan response would be some kind of IDF incursion into the Gaza Strip, the timing seems way too coincidental. Any failure by any Israeli politician of any political hue to respond to such a high level of provocation would be tantamount to political suicide &#8211; something Hamas would well know. The size and scale of the escalation was pretty much GUARANTEED to provoke a response regardless of whether an Israeli election was impending or not. Now perhaps politics is shaping to some extent the precise contour of the military response but frankly the only new element in 2012 not present in the last massive wave of rocket attacks is the presence of the Iron Dome defence system which Hamas may have assumed their sheer volume of rockets would overwhelm. Whilst that has been true for the areas most proximate to Gaza within range of the smaller rockets of which Hamas has larger stockpiles, it is clear that Iron Dome has blocked all the larger nastier Iranian longer range missiles and the vast majorty of the shorter range missiles.</p>
<p>The truth remains: no (or minimal) rocket attacks from Hamas &#8211; no incursions into Gaza by Israel (except random surgical strikes on known terrorists on long held Israeli target lists &#8211; actions that go on regardless of rocket related provocations)</p>
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		<title>By: mikenmild</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051563</link>
		<dc:creator>mikenmild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 17:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t doubt your analysis, but I shouldn&#039;t rule out an electoral motive. If Hamas stepped up its rocket fire and Israeli didn&#039;t respond; that would be bad news for the political leadership in Israel. Likud and Labour do not offer substantially different approaches in any event - I suspect that no one in the Israeli government would dare risk being labelled as moderate at this time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t doubt your analysis, but I shouldn&#8217;t rule out an electoral motive. If Hamas stepped up its rocket fire and Israeli didn&#8217;t respond; that would be bad news for the political leadership in Israel. Likud and Labour do not offer substantially different approaches in any event &#8211; I suspect that no one in the Israeli government would dare risk being labelled as moderate at this time.</p>
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		<title>By: kiwi in america</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051562</link>
		<dc:creator>kiwi in america</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 16:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051562</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reid
Your figures and timing on rockets/mortars fired by Hamas et al into Israel designed to back your internal Israeli politics as the main motivation for Operation Pillar of Fire allegation don&#039;t quite gel with the actual figures.

Rocket fire into Israel accelarated through the 2000s but reach a crescendo that led to Operation Iron Lead. 2002 (35), 2003 (155), 2004 (281), 2005 (1255), 2006 (1777) then a big jump in 2007 (2807) and by the time Iron Lead commenced in late December 2008 the total for 2008 alone had peaked at 3716! When you look at the 2009 figure (858) most of that was concentrated in the early part of the year right after the cessation of Iron Lead and during the negotiation period. The remaining 10 months of 2009 the numbers dropped to only 300 or less than a 10th of what was being fired in the run up to Iron Lead. 2010 saw that quiet trend continuing (365) and this starting to climb again in 2011 to 680. Note that the Israeli absorbed rocket fire of that magnitude (680) for years without triggering a major Gaza intervention. BUT by mid Nov 2012 almost 2000 rockets have been fired with the monthly trend in 2012 (aside from 2 small spikes in March and June) being only 22 rockets per month until October it climbed to 171 and in November we&#039;re at 1339 - a massive escalation! So you can say what you want about the Israeli elections but clearly Operation Pillar of Fire was in reaction to the sudden serious escalation in rocket attacks at the end of this year. 
[Source is Wikipedia for all attacks each one is footnoted and verified].

If you look at the history of Israeli elections, few wars co-incide neatly with your theory partly because so many elections are triggered by the collapse of unstable multi party coalitions brought about by the Israeli political system which is an proportional system with no minimum threshold thus allowing many small parties representing extremist elements in Israeli society into the Knesset. Unnecessary, overreaching and unpopular wars result in defeat at the polls in Israel. Operation Pillar of Fire has bi partisan support so, echoing TimG Oz, its hard to see how Netanyahu gains votes at the expense of his likely rival Prime Ministerial opponent by launching Pillar of Fire. I&#039;m not saying that the January elections have absolutely no bearing on this action but you are alleging that politics is pretty much the main reason for the IDF&#039;s action. Israeli politics is far too complex and nuanced for such a simplistic representation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reid<br />
Your figures and timing on rockets/mortars fired by Hamas et al into Israel designed to back your internal Israeli politics as the main motivation for Operation Pillar of Fire allegation don&#8217;t quite gel with the actual figures.</p>
<p>Rocket fire into Israel accelarated through the 2000s but reach a crescendo that led to Operation Iron Lead. 2002 (35), 2003 (155), 2004 (281), 2005 (1255), 2006 (1777) then a big jump in 2007 (2807) and by the time Iron Lead commenced in late December 2008 the total for 2008 alone had peaked at 3716! When you look at the 2009 figure (858) most of that was concentrated in the early part of the year right after the cessation of Iron Lead and during the negotiation period. The remaining 10 months of 2009 the numbers dropped to only 300 or less than a 10th of what was being fired in the run up to Iron Lead. 2010 saw that quiet trend continuing (365) and this starting to climb again in 2011 to 680. Note that the Israeli absorbed rocket fire of that magnitude (680) for years without triggering a major Gaza intervention. BUT by mid Nov 2012 almost 2000 rockets have been fired with the monthly trend in 2012 (aside from 2 small spikes in March and June) being only 22 rockets per month until October it climbed to 171 and in November we&#8217;re at 1339 &#8211; a massive escalation! So you can say what you want about the Israeli elections but clearly Operation Pillar of Fire was in reaction to the sudden serious escalation in rocket attacks at the end of this year.<br />
[Source is Wikipedia for all attacks each one is footnoted and verified].</p>
<p>If you look at the history of Israeli elections, few wars co-incide neatly with your theory partly because so many elections are triggered by the collapse of unstable multi party coalitions brought about by the Israeli political system which is an proportional system with no minimum threshold thus allowing many small parties representing extremist elements in Israeli society into the Knesset. Unnecessary, overreaching and unpopular wars result in defeat at the polls in Israel. Operation Pillar of Fire has bi partisan support so, echoing TimG Oz, its hard to see how Netanyahu gains votes at the expense of his likely rival Prime Ministerial opponent by launching Pillar of Fire. I&#8217;m not saying that the January elections have absolutely no bearing on this action but you are alleging that politics is pretty much the main reason for the IDF&#8217;s action. Israeli politics is far too complex and nuanced for such a simplistic representation.</p>
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		<title>By: Kea</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051494</link>
		<dc:creator>Kea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 07:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you had a point Reid, you failed to make it.

If I accept your figure, for rocket attacks, then I must accept the Israeli government has failed to protect its people. How do you feel about a proportionate and measured response from Israel, say about 800 Israeli rockets into Gaza?

The fact that Hamas has less capability, does not give them any moral high ground.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you had a point Reid, you failed to make it.</p>
<p>If I accept your figure, for rocket attacks, then I must accept the Israeli government has failed to protect its people. How do you feel about a proportionate and measured response from Israel, say about 800 Israeli rockets into Gaza?</p>
<p>The fact that Hamas has less capability, does not give them any moral high ground.</p>
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		<title>By: Reid</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051472</link>
		<dc:creator>Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 06:39:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051472</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Are you implying Hamas timed their, hundreds of, rockets to promote Israeli politicians ?&lt;/i&gt;

Kea Hamas fired 7-800 rockets per year into Israel, 2010, 2011, 2012. It was only when the election came around, they did this, like they did exact same time four years ago. The rocket rate was consistent throughout, the timing was entirely Israel&#039;s decision. Simple. As. That.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Are you implying Hamas timed their, hundreds of, rockets to promote Israeli politicians ?</i></p>
<p>Kea Hamas fired 7-800 rockets per year into Israel, 2010, 2011, 2012. It was only when the election came around, they did this, like they did exact same time four years ago. The rocket rate was consistent throughout, the timing was entirely Israel&#8217;s decision. Simple. As. That.</p>
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		<title>By: Kea</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051471</link>
		<dc:creator>Kea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 06:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051471</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;If Saudi Arabia isn’t based on religion, someone should tell them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

They were there before Islam was invented. Same as the people in the region, now known as Israel, were there before Judaism was invented.

As for the timing of the attacks; Are you implying Hamas timed their, hundreds of, rockets to promote Israeli politicians ?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If Saudi Arabia isn’t based on religion, someone should tell them.</p></blockquote>
<p>They were there before Islam was invented. Same as the people in the region, now known as Israel, were there before Judaism was invented.</p>
<p>As for the timing of the attacks; Are you implying Hamas timed their, hundreds of, rockets to promote Israeli politicians ?</p>
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		<title>By: Reid</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051459</link>
		<dc:creator>Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 06:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051459</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Firstly, you don’t actually have any evidence that it is the case. No documentation, no inside information. Your assertion is based purely on the timing of this round of violence.&lt;/i&gt;

I cited it all above: see my 2:57.

Both timings of violence with elections, plus numbers of attacks. The tell is they did it last time at Christmas in Cast Lead four years ago and they&#039;re doing it again now for the January elections, and the fact per that table shows they&#039;ve been doing it a lot, but who cares about that, because if you&#039;re suggesting they did it four years ago and now they&#039;re doing it four years later when rockets have been fired all throughout at the same rates, 2010, 2011, 2012. That&#039;s the tell. But you&#039;re saying this timing isn&#039;t designed? I see.

As for the rest of your comment, I have no idea why you imagine the rights and wrongs of the Jabari killing has anything whatsoever to anything I&#039;ve been saying so you&#039;ll have to forgive me for in fact disregarding those points but I&#039;m quite happy to answer any criticism of anything I have actually said, if you choose to deliver any.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Firstly, you don’t actually have any evidence that it is the case. No documentation, no inside information. Your assertion is based purely on the timing of this round of violence.</i></p>
<p>I cited it all above: see my 2:57.</p>
<p>Both timings of violence with elections, plus numbers of attacks. The tell is they did it last time at Christmas in Cast Lead four years ago and they&#8217;re doing it again now for the January elections, and the fact per that table shows they&#8217;ve been doing it a lot, but who cares about that, because if you&#8217;re suggesting they did it four years ago and now they&#8217;re doing it four years later when rockets have been fired all throughout at the same rates, 2010, 2011, 2012. That&#8217;s the tell. But you&#8217;re saying this timing isn&#8217;t designed? I see.</p>
<p>As for the rest of your comment, I have no idea why you imagine the rights and wrongs of the Jabari killing has anything whatsoever to anything I&#8217;ve been saying so you&#8217;ll have to forgive me for in fact disregarding those points but I&#8217;m quite happy to answer any criticism of anything I have actually said, if you choose to deliver any.</p>
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		<title>By: mikenmild</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051452</link>
		<dc:creator>mikenmild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 06:14:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051452</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fortunately Ronald Reagan somehow managed to restrain himself from a senescent first strike at the Russkies. Apparently the old Kremlin crowd got quite keen a time or two. If the Indians, Pakistanis, Israelis, Chinese and North Koreans have resisted the urge so far we may have some cause for cautious optimism as the nuclear armed club grows, as is inevitable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fortunately Ronald Reagan somehow managed to restrain himself from a senescent first strike at the Russkies. Apparently the old Kremlin crowd got quite keen a time or two. If the Indians, Pakistanis, Israelis, Chinese and North Koreans have resisted the urge so far we may have some cause for cautious optimism as the nuclear armed club grows, as is inevitable.</p>
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		<title>By: OneTrack</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051449</link>
		<dc:creator>OneTrack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 06:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051449</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reid - &quot;Scott, it’s MAD. MAD applies. It does. How could anyone possibly imagine would ignore it?&quot;

No it isnt mad.  This is not the US we are talking with SSBNs for africa.  It is quite conceivable for some demented person who is the leader of quite a large country, who gains a nuclear weapon, to convince himself that he can attack and take out all means of retalation in a quick block of coordinated strikes.  And, whats the worst that could happen - you get virgins - yay.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reid &#8211; &#8220;Scott, it’s MAD. MAD applies. It does. How could anyone possibly imagine would ignore it?&#8221;</p>
<p>No it isnt mad.  This is not the US we are talking with SSBNs for africa.  It is quite conceivable for some demented person who is the leader of quite a large country, who gains a nuclear weapon, to convince himself that he can attack and take out all means of retalation in a quick block of coordinated strikes.  And, whats the worst that could happen &#8211; you get virgins &#8211; yay.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051447</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 06:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fentex-one finds it difficult to embrace Hamas as the beleaguered force of moderation in this conflict. When your mission statement is &#039;Death to Israel &quot;it gives the game away somewhat.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fentex-one finds it difficult to embrace Hamas as the beleaguered force of moderation in this conflict. When your mission statement is &#8216;Death to Israel &#8220;it gives the game away somewhat.</p>
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		<title>By: TimG_Oz</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051443</link>
		<dc:creator>TimG_Oz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 05:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051443</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Reid, I&#039;ll tackle your election assertions.

Firstly, you don&#039;t actually have any evidence that it is the case.  No documentation, no inside information.  Your assertion is based purely on the timing of this round of violence.

The attack on Jabari had bipartisan approval at the Knesset.  Ehud Barak from the Indenpendence Party (ex Labour) and Netanyahu from Likud.  So it was unlikely to score votes one over the other.  The talk that he was a possible peacebroker is also speculation.  One thing that is more clear is that he indoctrinated youth to do his dirty work for him.  Usually the response operations target the actual youths, this one aimed at the mastermind.

Of course Protecting Civilians will be a popular with the electorate.  Todays Polls show that 90% of Israelis support the operation, however only 1 in four support a ground invasion.  

If anything, military operation is risky to an election.  Any operation which is seen to put Israeli lives at unnecessary risk will be harmful to politicians.  Just look at Ehud Olmert - his popularity went through the floor after it was said that the Lebanon action in 2006 put soldiers in undue risk from Hezbollah terrorists.

Right now Barak and Netanyahu are in intense discussions over terms of ceasefire.  This could also affect the polling, depending on the outcome.  It is likely that Hamas will be rewarded financially for their terror campaign, via international aid or other loosening of measures against them to prevent terror.

Any suggestion that killing Jabari actually was not the right thing will be heavily dissected in Israel (with the free press), and there is no guarantee that it provides popular support to politicians.

I expect that you will selectively ignore, disregard or argue these points, with innuendo.  I will have limited time to respond, but I believe the claim is suitably refuted and this comment should be a reference for claims in the future.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Reid, I&#8217;ll tackle your election assertions.</p>
<p>Firstly, you don&#8217;t actually have any evidence that it is the case.  No documentation, no inside information.  Your assertion is based purely on the timing of this round of violence.</p>
<p>The attack on Jabari had bipartisan approval at the Knesset.  Ehud Barak from the Indenpendence Party (ex Labour) and Netanyahu from Likud.  So it was unlikely to score votes one over the other.  The talk that he was a possible peacebroker is also speculation.  One thing that is more clear is that he indoctrinated youth to do his dirty work for him.  Usually the response operations target the actual youths, this one aimed at the mastermind.</p>
<p>Of course Protecting Civilians will be a popular with the electorate.  Todays Polls show that 90% of Israelis support the operation, however only 1 in four support a ground invasion.  </p>
<p>If anything, military operation is risky to an election.  Any operation which is seen to put Israeli lives at unnecessary risk will be harmful to politicians.  Just look at Ehud Olmert &#8211; his popularity went through the floor after it was said that the Lebanon action in 2006 put soldiers in undue risk from Hezbollah terrorists.</p>
<p>Right now Barak and Netanyahu are in intense discussions over terms of ceasefire.  This could also affect the polling, depending on the outcome.  It is likely that Hamas will be rewarded financially for their terror campaign, via international aid or other loosening of measures against them to prevent terror.</p>
<p>Any suggestion that killing Jabari actually was not the right thing will be heavily dissected in Israel (with the free press), and there is no guarantee that it provides popular support to politicians.</p>
<p>I expect that you will selectively ignore, disregard or argue these points, with innuendo.  I will have limited time to respond, but I believe the claim is suitably refuted and this comment should be a reference for claims in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Reid</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051439</link>
		<dc:creator>Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 05:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One reason people find it difficult to think straight about Israel is because the propaganda they put forth capitalises on their Holy status. The hallucination in the West, that Israel is God&#039;s people. Therefore does no wrong. 

Understanding both history and the Bible clarifies the relevant principles of Israel today but many people have only one and many have neither of these.

The critical distinction to make in breaking through this if one is interested is to make in one&#039;s mind a clear and present distinction between the people of a country and its leadership. This isolates the bad guys and it makes sense, those are who are responsible &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; these people.

Then consider the actions of said leadership over history in clear light of day and consider whether, over time, decades, they have done the right or the wrong thing in progressing the best interests of their citizens.

To illustrate the extreme spectrum of this western confusion over Israel, consider that there is strong support from many US right-wing Christian &lt;strike&gt;nutters&lt;/strike&gt; groups precisely &lt;i&gt;for&lt;/i&gt; the destruction of Israel so as to hasten the rapture and the Second Coming.

People who support the Israeli leadership as they, once again, destroy any chance at stability &lt;i&gt;for their own people&lt;/i&gt; for the foreseeable future, are to a lessor degree, on the same spectrum as those right wing Christians.

I know that&#039;s not a comfortable thought, but it&#039;s true.

Thanks mm, appreciate that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One reason people find it difficult to think straight about Israel is because the propaganda they put forth capitalises on their Holy status. The hallucination in the West, that Israel is God&#8217;s people. Therefore does no wrong. </p>
<p>Understanding both history and the Bible clarifies the relevant principles of Israel today but many people have only one and many have neither of these.</p>
<p>The critical distinction to make in breaking through this if one is interested is to make in one&#8217;s mind a clear and present distinction between the people of a country and its leadership. This isolates the bad guys and it makes sense, those are who are responsible <i>are</i> these people.</p>
<p>Then consider the actions of said leadership over history in clear light of day and consider whether, over time, decades, they have done the right or the wrong thing in progressing the best interests of their citizens.</p>
<p>To illustrate the extreme spectrum of this western confusion over Israel, consider that there is strong support from many US right-wing Christian <strike>nutters</strike> groups precisely <i>for</i> the destruction of Israel so as to hasten the rapture and the Second Coming.</p>
<p>People who support the Israeli leadership as they, once again, destroy any chance at stability <i>for their own people</i> for the foreseeable future, are to a lessor degree, on the same spectrum as those right wing Christians.</p>
<p>I know that&#8217;s not a comfortable thought, but it&#8217;s true.</p>
<p>Thanks mm, appreciate that.</p>
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		<title>By: mikenmild</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/11/the_power_of_cartoons.html/comment-page-1#comment-1051437</link>
		<dc:creator>mikenmild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 05:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=68632#comment-1051437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I often disagree with Reid; but his opinion on this latest round of Israel vs the Palestinians is pretty much spot on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often disagree with Reid; but his opinion on this latest round of Israel vs the Palestinians is pretty much spot on.</p>
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