General Debate 12 December 2012

December 12th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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72 Responses to “General Debate 12 December 2012”

  1. Fletch (6,474 comments) says:

    And the winner of this year’s Nobel Peace Prize is (wait for it…)
    The European Union!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20677654

    Really???

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  2. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    @Fletch,

    Perhaps it was the riots by citizens that secured it for them.

    If so, maybe the EU should forgive some debt to Greece – it is a very prestigious award after all.

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  3. Cobolt (94 comments) says:

    Are the wheels starting to loosen on the current Govt? Parata’s made a significant blue and should probably go, a good excuse to drop her anyway, And Now Collins has picked a fight I’m not sure she needs. Hearing Binnie’s letter to Mike Hosking this morning it sounds quite damning.

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  4. iMP (2,411 comments) says:

    Re DAVID BAIN. What Karam and Reed don’t get, is that this is now a political affair not an evidential trial. Binnie is right, “Collins is playing politics.” Well, of course, and rightly so. Du-ah.

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2012/12/12/david-bain-compensation/

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  5. Keeping Stock (10,397 comments) says:

    Justice Ian Binnie shows his true colours; what an extraordinary response:

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/justice-binnie-responds.html?m=1

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  6. Lance (2,704 comments) says:

    @Fletch
    The Heralds cartoon on this is quite good

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10853456

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  7. peterwn (3,294 comments) says:

    See:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8066565/Oil-spill-partner-wins-NZ-prospect

    The Greens are (as to be expected) outraged. They are actually two faced here. If the Greens expect NZ to dispose of its waste internally (rather than export it) and expect NZ to do more than its fair share with the Kyoto protocol, then surely the Greens would expect NZ to be as self sufficient with resources as possible including exporting minerals in a similar tenor to imported minerals whether in raw form or as part of products.

    But no! the Greens are displaying national NIMBYism. They want other parts of the world to provide NZ’s energy and mineral needs.

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  8. peterwn (3,294 comments) says:

    See:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10853489

    “Parata’s closure [of special school] unlawful”

    The Court IMO is wrong. It is not for the courts to dictate to the Government how its resources should be allocated. It would seem that by an accident of history, the school was chewing up money disproportionate to the service it actually provided.

    Unfortunately, appealing the decision or legislating to clarify judiciary / executive boundary with respect to education is going to disturb an already fragile political situation.

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  9. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Fletch, check out who received that Nobel award. A Maoist, a leader of a communist party, and a man who has declared the end of nation states. The three un-elected leaders of the EU.

    I commented on this in yesterdays general debate.

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  10. Cobolt (94 comments) says:

    @Peterwn
    I agree, the govt should be able to control where and how it’s resources are spent but you’d think that a competent MP would make sure the legal ramifications were covered.

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  11. Pete George (23,676 comments) says:

    The Curran gagging campaign is a cancer spreading rough an ailing party. Leadership either hasn’t got a clue what it’s MPs crusade on or it is supporting the criticism police. There are growing signs of conflicts between Shearer and Curran and both Dunedin South and Dunedin North.

    http://yournz.org/2012/12/12/curran-gagging-cancer/

    (To those expressing annoyance at this coverage, tough. As far as I’m aware I have a freedom to express myself on this issue of freedom of political expression, and critics won’t cow me into silence. There are a handful of hissies, and no doubt more grizzling silently, but there are thousands interested enough to follow this).

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  12. Fletch (6,474 comments) says:

    @Lance, funny :)

    @Kea, sorry didn’t see that yesterday.

    I see also that a UN official has been arrested for aiding Al Qaeda. And he is not the first one.

    http://www.hiiraan.com/news4/2012/Dec/27223/fao_official_arrested_in_baidoa_for_al_shabab_affiliation.aspx

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  13. Tauhei Notts (1,743 comments) says:

    The front page of today’s NZ Herald quotes Judge Mary Beth Sharp as saying that one per cent of women suffer from moodiness, irrationality, forgetfulness and obsession with issues.
    One day I will meet a woman from that 99% category.

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  14. Manolo (14,012 comments) says:

    Wowsers, Luddites and socialists claim foul: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10853482

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  15. Manolo (14,012 comments) says:

    P.G., you have all the rights in the world, including the one to be fixated with The sub-Standard. :D

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  16. Cobolt (94 comments) says:

    Seriously Keeping Stock? Because Binnie is pointing out that the Solicitor General is not as unbiased as we are lead to believe that makes Binnie biased?
    Look, I think Bain did it and he should not get compensation but the way Collins is going about this just makes it so much messier than it needs to be.

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  17. eszett (2,425 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,573) Says:
    December 12th, 2012 at 8:09 am

    And the winner of this year’s Nobel Peace Prize is (wait for it…)
    The European Union!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20677654

    Really???

    And you just found out today?
    You realise this was announced in October.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10840223

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  18. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    Fletch, I did not think the Nobel peace prize could have been more a joke, after Obama got it for being half black. But they really out did themselves on this one.

    Funny how the Norwegians have voted against EU membership themselves and won’t have a bar of it. Yet they have awarded the prize to the EU as riots and civil unrest breaks out all over member states, and radical nationalism is on the rise.

    If this is what peace looks like, I can not imagine unrest.

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  19. Nookin (3,452 comments) says:

    Did we hear Prof Jane Kelsy’s shrill and doomsaying rhetoric when a labour govt negotiated an FTA with China?

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  20. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    eszett, the prize has just been received. “accepted it on behalf of the EU during a ceremony at City Hall in Oslo December 10, 2012″

    Here is my post from yesterday, along with a link reporting on it.

    I am often questioned about my claims that the left has taken over Western society.

    Here is a story about the EU receiving the Nobel Peace Prize, as riots, protests and civil unrest continue in bankrupted countries. The three men, receiving the prize, dictate to the elected representatives of member countries. They are not elected by those they govern.

    http://rt.com/news/nobel-peace-prize-incakolanews-735/

    They are:

    President of the European Commission. Jose Barroso, a Maoist.

    President of the European Parliament, Martin Schulz, member of the Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands. (or just the communist party will do)

    And the (unelected) President of the European Council, Herman Van Rompuy, yet another socialist who wants to end independent nations.

    The European economy is ruined. People are rioting and protesting. Massive cuts are being made to peoples standards of living. The hard working countries are being robbed to bail out the lazy, yet they all are sliding steadily down hill. The fact that this political organisation has been awarded a nobel prize, against this background, show that the left have already won.

    Most of the people, who are subject to EU control, never got to vote on membership of the EU. The people who dictate to them are not elected by the citizens, but by others in the same socialist organisation. This is not “like communism” it is communism.

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  21. flipper (4,186 comments) says:

    Enough of all this serious stuff like Binnie,the silly EU and the tenured “left of Stalin” academic, Kelsey et al.
    Try this:
    BEST Definition ….

    There’s an annual contest at Bond University, Australia, calling for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

    This year’s term was ‘political correctness’.
    The winning student wrote:

    ‘Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of sh*t by the clean end.’

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  22. Keeping Stock (10,397 comments) says:

    @ Cobalt – Binnie seems unaware that David Collins is no longer Solicitor-General. But from the tenor of his response, he’s clearly a fan of Joe Karam’s works of fiction, fantasy and conspiracy theories.

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  23. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    I think Binnie’s response is a very good start.

    If he can go public with his decision then maybe its a starting point for other judges to start explaining or supporting their decisions – especially when its about someone on parol who commits a hienous crime…….

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  24. Cobolt (94 comments) says:

    @ Keeping Stock
    ” I was introduced to the then Solicitor General, David Collins…” Shows he knows there’s been a change. I don’t get the same tenor. What I see is a very well respected senior commonwealth judge being told he’s incompetent while being reminded he can’t talk about the case itself.
    If you sense that he’s a bit miffed you’d be on the right track.

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  25. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    I hope Collins doesn’t pay Judge Binnie for the last two revisions. Then they will not be her property and with a bit of luck, will be released without Collin’s interpretation of ‘Justice’ cast upon them.

    The Solicitor General is a title and a position. The Solicitor General oversees the Crown’s case, regardless of who holds the position, is responsible for it, and whether that person has changed, or not, they are still biased, and their opinion cannot be considered fair, especially when other parties were not involved.

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  26. Manolo (14,012 comments) says:

    Third Fourth-world level: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/only-7-detroit-public-school-8th-graders-proficient-reading

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  27. Kea (13,192 comments) says:

    ‘Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of sh*t by the clean end.’

    My definition: Political correctness is an adobted morality, based on what is fashionable and popular, for those who have not developed any morality of their own.

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  28. Cobolt (94 comments) says:

    Political Correctness is simply making allowances for the minority at the detriment to the majority.
    I remember a few years ago a talk back host, might have been Larry Williams, claiming the banning of smoking in certain areas was political correctness, when in my mind smokers were the minority so allowing the to continue to smoke in those areas was actually PC.

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  29. Carlos (683 comments) says:

    What did socialists use before candles?

    Electricity. :)

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  30. peterwn (3,294 comments) says:

    Cobolt – re School court case – A Minister relies on her Ministry to check this sort of thing out. However while the Ministry’s legal adviser can check for obvious legal issues, the adviser cannot necessarily guess which way an activist judge could jump. IMO Hekia has been badly let down by her Ministry in a number of areas and it is this sort of thing which causes Ministers to have more control over who the CEO is and key staff who will properly ‘tune in’ to Ministers’ thinking – IMO this will be a sad day but seems inevitasble. It is quite possible that in due course new CEOs are hired following a change of government and they in turn will appoint new management teams. It is possible that Ministry staff are so out of tune with Government thinking that they do their work grudgingly and do not particularly care if the Minister is embarassed by their actions or omissions.

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  31. Cobolt (94 comments) says:

    @peterwn
    You’ve basically touched on my argument that the ministers have to have a strong grip on their ministries, something I think Hekia has always struggled with.

    Is it specifically her fault? No. Is she responsible just the same? Yes.

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  32. frankflintstone (68 comments) says:

    Cobolt,

    Maybe letting them smoke is political correctness..or just maybe your definition of political correctness is wrong

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  33. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Book: “Cornered”

    This is an outstanding book that explains much about why the US economy is imploding.

    Barry C. Lynn’s work deserves a whole lot more attention

    CORNERED: THE NEW MONOPOLY CAPITALISM AND THE ECONOMICS OF DESTRUCTION (2010)

    http://www.realecontv.com/videos/corporate-criminality–1/strangled-by-monopolies.html

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  34. Cobolt (94 comments) says:

    @Frankflintstone
    So what is your definition of PC then?

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  35. Manolo (14,012 comments) says:

    Talking about PC: crack a laugh. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246293/Tennis-player-Caroline-Wozniacki-accused-racist-impersonation-Serena-Williams-stuffing-bra-pants.html

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  36. Longknives (4,852 comments) says:

    Wozniacki is a hot ‘racist’ though…

    http://www.anorak.co.uk/287579/in-pictures-2/caroline-wozniacki-bikini-and-other-hot-photos.html/?pid=45036#img

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  37. Paulus (2,652 comments) says:

    Nelson special school court case – see what you get when you challenge Mai Chen acting for the school.

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  38. Manolo (14,012 comments) says:

    Another gullible youngster brainwashed by the Luddites: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1212/S00201/epa-should-consider-public-opposition-to-salmon-farm.htm

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  39. Harriet (5,078 comments) says:

    Cobalt#

    “…..So what is your definition of PC then?….”

    Intellectual lazyness.

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  40. Manolo (14,012 comments) says:

    These two animals will be in their mid-20s when released from prison. And… ready to kill again.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8069748/Murder-accused-teen-denied-crime-to-sister

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  41. Boglio (78 comments) says:

    So what would happen if Collins accepted Binie’s report warts and all and either paid or not paid compensation depending on his recommendation and then one side or the other pointed out major flaws in the report. I bet that the bloggers and MSM would call for Colins blood and demand why she had not ensure that it was acurate.

    Is it not better to vet it for accuracy before the yelling starts and Collins finds herself in the sh*t…one way or the other she is better to ensure that the report is legally correct before it is finally acted on!

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  42. Cobolt (94 comments) says:

    @Harriet
    Pretty much sums up your answer.

    @Boglio
    The problem is Collins called out Binnie’s competency with out right of reply. If there really were concerns she would have got the peer review and then given Binnie a right of reply. This just smacks of trying to discredit the author just to avoid the reports implications.
    BTW I am/was a fan of Collins, I helped vote her into parliament and have liked what she had done up until this.

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  43. Pete George (23,676 comments) says:

    An ‘online bully’ has been fired – no, not a well known MP, this person worked for Auckland Transport in a relatively minor case of complaining to someone’s employer about a bit of a grizzle on Twitter.

    http://yournz.org/2012/12/12/online-bully-fired/

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  44. Harriet (5,078 comments) says:

    Kea #

    A Socialist is someone who has nothing – and who shares it with everyone else. :cool:

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  45. KevinH (1,234 comments) says:

    Judith Collins is not challenging Justice Binnie’s decision by requesting a second opinion. Obviously the report has some serious criticisms and far reaching recommendations that Collin’s will have to cross check before making her announcement therefore it is entirely appropriate that Collins has sought further guidance on this matter.
    The Bain camp, aka Joe Karam and supporters are also entitled to receive a copy of the report for consideration to enable them time to consider it’s findingss well.

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  46. RRM (9,992 comments) says:

    Cobolt (77) Says:
    December 12th, 2012 at 10:37 am

    @Frankflintstone
    So what is your definition of PC then?

    Political Correctness is the crime of telling a rude cunt that he’s a rude cunt. ;-)

    (Pardon my interruption…)

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  47. Cobolt (94 comments) says:

    @Pete George
    Strange case. I’m guessing there is more to the dismissal than just the complaint to Telecom.

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  48. Ryan Sproull (7,253 comments) says:

    I like Stewart Lee’s definition of political correctness: “An often-clumsy negotiation towards a kind of formally inclusive language.”

    Or my own definition of political correctness: “Not being an impolite dick.”

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  49. Pete George (23,676 comments) says:

    PC – contorted avoidance of describing something as it’s been known for yonks.

    Also – offending the English language when trying to avoid offending anyone.

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  50. Pete George (23,676 comments) says:

    Cobolt – yes, it seems an overreaction but there could well be more to it.

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  51. Manolo (14,012 comments) says:

    The European Left will keep repeating the same mistakes ad infinitum: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9738178/Frances-Jean-Marc-Ayrault-slams-flight-of-the-greedy-rich.html

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  52. lastmanstanding (1,300 comments) says:

    Methinks Ms Collins has just scuttled any chance she may have of being leader of the National Party in Parliament and possibly the next wimmin PM. She has crossed the rubicon.

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  53. Manolo (14,012 comments) says:

    1 NZD close to 84 cents USD and no relief in sight. Quite a few jobs could go belly up.

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  54. Viking2 (11,539 comments) says:

    Taniwha being born.

    http://screencast.com/t/8VSsfvDBx3v

    http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/36315-white-island-increased-activity.html

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  55. RF (1,435 comments) says:

    Go crusher !!! Not scared to make the tough decisions.

    Has anyone recently heard from the Labour party. Perhaps they have closed for Xmas.

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  56. kowtow (8,707 comments) says:

    Tony Blair and his Labour cabal see their “multiculty” plan to fruitition.
    White British now a minority in London. Truely an historic moment,not a good one.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2246689/Census-data-Decade-changed-face-UK-4million-migrants-settle–London-half-population-white-British.html

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  57. mikenmild (11,548 comments) says:

    White only within the sound of Bow Bells? Ship the coloureds back to the plantations?

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  58. Viking2 (11,539 comments) says:

    Tauhei Notts (1,170) Says:
    December 12th, 2012 at 8:38 am

    The front page of today’s NZ Herald quotes Judge Mary Beth Sharp as saying that one per cent of women suffer from moodiness, irrationality, forgetfulness and obsession with issues.
    One day I will meet a woman from that 99% category.
    ————————

    Yeh right!
    Clearly Mary Beth has a bias.
    Ask any male. :roll:

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  59. kowtow (8,707 comments) says:

    What plantations,you racist prat?

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  60. mikenmild (11,548 comments) says:

    You are the one bemoaning the lack of whites in London. Surely you must have an idea for reducing the number of coloureds. Or is the solution about improving the fertility of the volk?

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  61. kowtow (8,707 comments) says:

    A momentuous milestone in Britain’s history,which we share. And milktities can only make facetious comments around perceived white guilt such as slavery and then invoking another one, the Aryans .What a waste of time,but then he is an acolyte of the ideology for the destruction of the west.

    And that destruction is proceding apace,according to plan.

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  62. mikenmild (11,548 comments) says:

    I just find it a bit odd that you accuse me of racism at the same time as you bemoan a white minority in London. Now I’m part of a plan for destroying the west, too. There is no plan – demography and history follow no laws or plans. If you believe otherwise, then you might just be a Marxist.

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  63. kowtow (8,707 comments) says:

    Milky hates the white race. He is a racist and Blair had a plan.In Britain,demography follows the money. Human rights law forbids Britain doing anything about it. The result is the Balkanisation of Britain and race wars will follow.Happened before will happen again.

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/157488/Labour-is-guilty-of-a-sickening-act-of-national-betrayal

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  64. mikenmild (11,548 comments) says:

    Unlike you, I have very little hate. I do pity the conspiracy theorists, but that’s about as strong as it gets.

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  65. kowtow (8,707 comments) says:

    History is not a conspiracy theory.

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  66. mikenmild (11,548 comments) says:

    Yes, there is a difference. While there can be quite wide-ranging debates about the philosophy of history, changing interpretations, even the dreaded ‘revisionism’, etc, belief in conspiracy theories is of a different, almost pathological, order of magnitude.

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  67. SPC (5,738 comments) says:

    There is also the same conspiracy to end the white majority in the USA.

    This is clearly caused by combination of capitalist greed and economic migration. Siphoning the educated from the world via the Green Card and the employer willing to hire on the cheap illegal immigrants.

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  68. mikenmild (11,548 comments) says:

    Whether Britain, or the United States, or any other country ever loses its white majority will in time be placed into a historical context that started with the human move out of Africa 150,000-odd years ago. Where will it end? No one knows.

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  69. kowtow (8,707 comments) says:

    All migration is good then?

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  70. SPC (5,738 comments) says:

    kowtow,

    First there is the freedom of labour within the EU – and the related issue of welfare benefits to non UK citizens (a bit like the issue of us in Oz getting welfare) who migrate to the UK to look for work.

    Second there is the issue of how historic immigration into the UK is accounted for. The Commonwealth policy. Labour chose to embrace multi-culturalism – and went as far as to adopt independent schools.

    This is of course popular with a new voting constituency – that is added to when new immigrants arrive.

    The immigrants from the Commonwealth competed with Europeans for jobs in the UK during the growth period before the GFC.

    Blair is of course an internationalist, and the party more commited to Europe than the Tories – thus of course less nationalist than the Tories.

    Nationalists may not like either the free movement of labour within Europe or immigration from the Commonwealth, but race wars are the least likely outcome. More likely restrictions on access to welfare to those from Europe and lower levels of immigration from the Commonwealth.

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  71. mikenmild (11,548 comments) says:

    Some migration is obviously very good, such as my ancestors moving here in the nineteenth century. Not all migration is good though, it’s just that in the long run migration is inevitable and unstoppable.

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  72. Manolo (14,012 comments) says:

    With friends like this: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/iran-sends-congratulations-n-korea-successful-rocket-launch_666160.html

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