General Debate 13 December 2012

December 13th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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53 Responses to “General Debate 13 December 2012”

  1. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    It was Metiria Turei’s turn to do the honours for the Greens in the final leader’s speeches yesterday. Apart from her usual overdoing of the ‘poor kids in poverty’ spiel it was a pretty good speech.

    But you wouldn’t have thought so if you watched Russel Norman, slumped beside her looking like a kid who’d been just told Santa wouldn’t be coming this year.

    Norman is gunning for the prime ministerial role of Finance, and he might also fancy his chances of becoming deputy PM. But that will make it difficult to keep the Green leadership in balance.

    Greens: ‘All leaders are equal…’

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  2. TimG_Oz (917 comments) says:

    Warning: Missing argument

    Well I always thought that some Kiwiblog “arguments” were “missing” things like rationality, logic and common sense, but this is ridiculous!

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  3. Nostalgia-NZ (4,911 comments) says:

    Is the site under attack?
    I better put on a safety helmet and haz jacket.

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  4. TimG_Oz (917 comments) says:

    Strangely works in Firefox, not chrome

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  5. thedavincimode (6,532 comments) says:

    Heh.

    Warning: Missing argument

    We knew that already.

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  6. jims_whare (398 comments) says:

    ha

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  7. Paulus (2,501 comments) says:

    Why am I becoming tired of listening to Pike River man Neville Rockhouse loudly stating that he he is going to give John Key hell in Greymouth this morning. Key is going to discuss the Pike River Report with the families.

    Whilst I am sad that he lost his son in the mine, it is my question -

    “As ‘Health and Safety Manager’ of the Mine why did you let your son continue to go down the mine, if as you now say, it was unsafe?. You are a veteran Mine man.
    Do you not take some of the responsibility in that it would appear that you failed to do your job, as Health and Safety Manager, competently ?”

    Or, is it everybody else’s fault.

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  8. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    An interesting MIT Technology Review article for Kiwiblog’s political scientists’ readers here. The article is written in a non-technical way so as the general public can understand.

    Sociophysicists Discover Universal Pattern of Voting Behaviour

    The technical paper that the article was based on is available here (see the end) for free download. I have cut & pasted the Abstract, so readers who don’t want to read the full paper, can just quickly scan the abstract summary.

    Abstract
    ———-
    Election data represent a precious source of information to study human behavior at a large scale. In proportional elections with open lists, the number of votes received by a candidate, rescaled by the average performance of all competitors in the same party list, has the same distribution regardless of the country and the year of the election. Here we provide the first thorough assessment of this claim. We analyzed election datasets of 15 countries with proportional systems. We confirm that a class of nations with similar election rules fulfill the universality claim. Discrepancies from this trend in other countries with open-lists elections are always associated with peculiar differences in the election rules, which matter more than differences between countries and historical periods. Our analysis shows that the role of parties in the electoral performance of candidates is crucial: alternative scalings not taking into account party affiliations lead to poor results.

    Full Paper : Universality in voting behavior: an empirical analysis

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  9. Manolo (13,367 comments) says:

    KB targeted by an unknown foe?

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  10. dime (9,430 comments) says:

    I take it someone has informed DPF…

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  11. Ryan Sproull (7,030 comments) says:

    Comments aren’t working at all on my blog. It’s a bad week for comments.

    (WordPress upgraded to 3.5 yesterday – possibly DPF’s comments system conflicts with the new core somehow.)

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  12. David Farrar (1,855 comments) says:

    Testing.

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  13. David Farrar (1,855 comments) says:

    Seems to work for me fine. There was an upgrade at 8.01 am this morning which may have impacted things.

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  14. thedavincimode (6,532 comments) says:

    It’s fucked.

    Health Warning: Logging in may cause dizziness. Or should that be more dizziness than usual?

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  15. Cobolt (82 comments) says:

    Restarting Firefox hasn’t helped.

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  16. wf (373 comments) says:

    The teachers revenge, lol.

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  17. bhudson (4,734 comments) says:

    DPF,

    If you’re checking GD – The problem seems to appear only when logged in (have tried both IE and Firefox.) When I log out everything appears normally.

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  18. Fletch (6,025 comments) says:

    Woh, yeh – you get this when you’re logged in (click image to enlarge)-

    http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/7115/kiwiblog.gif

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  19. Fletch (6,025 comments) says:

    ps, I saved the image as a gif in above link, is why the colors are stuffed.
    Am only pointing out the code.

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  20. David Farrar (1,855 comments) says:

    Ta

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  21. Cobolt (82 comments) says:

    Yay. Fixed.

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  22. Fletch (6,025 comments) says:

    That funny video of the dog eating biscuits that’s gone viral :)

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  23. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    A very very good editorial from Dom Post on ‘poverty’ and who is responsible.

    Poverty harmful to children. No-one will dispute the central tenet of the child poverty report released this week by Children’s Commissioner Russell Wills.

    Kids who go to school hungry struggle to learn. Kids who live in damp, cold, crowded homes get sick. Kids who grow up poor are more likely to struggle as adults.

    Where readers may be inclined to part company with the commissioner’s expert advisory group is over how to tackle the problem.

    However, when it comes to the pointy end of the exercise they have a lot to say to the Government and nothing to say to parents. The report contains 78 recommendations. Seventy-eight of those are directed at the Government; none are directed at parents.

    The state can help, but definitely: Prime obligation lies with parents.

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  24. kowtow (7,625 comments) says:

    There was an academic on TV3 this morning under the heading “sugar tax”.

    She said ..”….there are inequalities in obesity……”

    There sure are,there are some seriously fat bastards out there and it’s not fair.

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  25. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    Assange looks to contest Australian Senate election

    WIKILEAKS publisher Julian Assange has confirmed his intention to run as a Senate candidate in the 2013 federal election and will announce the formation of a WikiLeaks political party early next year.

    I’m assuming this story was leaked, and that if successful there will be absolutely no secrets left to trot out about Assange :)

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  26. eszett (2,334 comments) says:

    Looks like Romney finally did win something this year.

    Romney earns PolitiFact’s ‘Lie of the Year’ for Jeeps made in China

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/romney-earns-politifact-lie-jeeps-made-china-143057560–election.html

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  27. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    kowtowat 11.34 – that’s very funny. But you have to really wonder at the thinking behind statements like “inequalities in obesity”.

    I didn’t see it but it may have been related to another reports, in the ODT, about University of Otago Prof Barry Taylor.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/238333/obesity-among-highest

    We should have random obesity stops, where people are put on scales and fined if they are carrying too much weight. This is already done with trucks, and the scales they use should just about handle the worst of the fatties.

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  28. Manolo (13,367 comments) says:

    Well said: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/9739039/Googles-tax-avoidance-is-called-capitalism-says-chairman-Eric-Schmidt.html

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  29. Manolo (13,367 comments) says:

    It should also suggest surrendering to the savages.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324024004578171561230647852.html

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  30. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Manolo (8,409) Says:
    December 13th, 2012 at 11:50 am

    I agree it was well said. Hence why governments should fix the loopholes that these companies exploit.

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  31. Viking2 (11,129 comments) says:

    Maritime Union of New Zealand president Garry Parsloe says the port’s lost all credibility.

    He says they’ve broken the law.

    Ports of Auckland slapped with $40k fine

    Thursday, 13, Dec, 2012 10:35AM

    Ports of Auckland says it’s disappointed with a fine for illegally employing strike-breaking contractors.

    It’s been slapped with a $40,000 fine by the Employment Relations Act for illegally employing an overseas engineer, paying him $10,000 a week, to undertake the work of striking wharfies.

    In a statement, the port says staff and management were simply focused on keeping the port running during the strikes earlier this year.

    It says that was done to minimise the impact on the people, businesses and other employees.

    The union in the long-running dispute with the Ports of Auckland says it’s happy to see the company slapped with a fine.

    Maritime Union of New Zealand president Garry Parsloe says the port’s lost all credibility.

    He says they’ve broken the law.

    Garry Parsloe says the port’s been dishonest throughout the whole process.
    —————————————
    didn’t I read the other day the MUNZ are having to have their tax returns refiled from 2005?
    Didn’t they break the Law with respect to filing their annual returns?

    Didn’t they break some laws over their pickets and the actions on the wharf?

    Senile dementia perhaps.

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  32. Viking2 (11,129 comments) says:

    Last month the union said it had not ruled out strike action over the Christmas break, as its dispute with Ports of Auckland drags on.

    The two parties have been in facilitation at the ERA over their collective employment agreement since May 8

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8075141/Port-fined-for-hiring-strike-breakers

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  33. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    Further to the poverty comment, the report recommends $2b per year be spent on addressing poverty.

    I’ve done some calculations from statistics from the smoking post yesterday and close to that amount is spent by smokers on tobacco alone, and when you add alcohol and cannabis the annual direct cost alone for detrimental products is huge. And use of these products is overrepresented by the poorer segment of the population.

    Government can help, but they should be focussing on ensuring parents address the root cause of many of their problems.

    For example pissed parents are often poor and piss poor parents.

    http://yournz.org/2012/12/13/prime-obligation-for-kids-in-poverty-are-their-parents/

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  34. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    How much sicker does it get ?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8073573/Son-who-raped-mother-has-appeal-dismissed

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  35. Cobolt (82 comments) says:

    @Pete George.
    It always gets me how, seemingly, everyone points to “poverty” being the root cause for all of the lower socioeconomic ills. The fact is that poverty is actually just another symptom of They Don’t/Can’t Give A Fuck.
    I know a few solo mums who get by on the DPB and yet their kids go to school ready to learn, fed, clothed and rested. I know some others, Father living at home with good income, and the kids go to school in a mess because dad hits mum, or mum’s stoned so no breakfast etc.
    The parents need educating on how to be a responsible parent. That is the starting point.

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  36. Harriet (4,514 comments) says:

    Pete George#

    “…A very very good editorial from Dom Post on ‘poverty’ and who is responsible….”

    Good link Pete thanks.

    But, ’78 demands of government’ from the business community ‘to help solve poverty’ is code for ‘private sector funding from government to help solve poverty’ – bussiness is now using ‘emotion’ Pete!

    And the editorial’s – ‘parents fail to set boundrys’ is code for ‘parents are not installing values and morals’.

    The problem now in western society Pete is not only the breakdown in ‘intergenerational family structures’ but also the breakdown in ‘intergenerational social structures’.

    The workplace is no longer based around length of service where ‘socialising’ the younger ones was part of the job. Kids now simply don’t learn anything that is NOT part of the job.

    Neither is there any more ‘interests and hobbies’ where people of all ages have the same interests leading again to ‘socialising’ the younger ones. The likes of Scotland still do, where kids as young as 5 join pipebands, marching girls, brassbands etc, and remain in that band for 50yrs, having seen and heard the older ones talk about their life’s ‘trials and tribulations’ and learning from it.

    Then we have the likes of Marriage, which needs to be strengthened as since it was weakened by no-faults divorce, it is now seen by those who ARE married as ‘optional’. And as family court judges in Australia and the UK have noted: “when things are optional, people concentrate on the negatives rather than the positives.” But NZ is still under the impression that ‘married wifes’ and the kids can’t leave.

    But as the police statistics show: The women who remain with men who beat and belittle them are not in marriages but longterm de-facto relationships.

    Look at feminist statistics: Women are now the major decision makers in the home on all domestic matters! -Hardly fucken ‘beaten’!

    Stand for ‘strengthening the marriage act’ Pete – you’ll shit in at the next election as Duniden still has it’s values, morals and Scottish roots!

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  37. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    Women are now the major decision makers in the home on all domestic matters!

    Not in my home, we share responsibilities with both overlapping and complementariy roles.

    Minor changes to the marriage act are a tiny side issue that doesn’t impact at all on use of alcohol, tobacco, drugs, or gambling, nor on violence, nor on undervaluing the importance of education and employment.

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  38. Harriet (4,514 comments) says:

    Pete George#

    “….Minor changes to the marriage act are a tiny side issue that doesn’t impact at all on use of alcohol, tobacco, drugs, or gambling, nor on violence, nor on undervaluing the importance of education and employment….”

    Bullshit!

    You forgot the KIDS from divorces – they don’t just figure in all the above – they nearly TOP the list!

    Why the hell are kiwis so afraid from putting marriage back on it’s pedistal when it has shown that children from marriage fair better? – Isn’t THAT parental responsability Pete?

    You’ve almost suggested Pete that your Marriage works well…..and you said last week that your first marriage ended….I’m not being nosey, but I’d hardly think it would have been for violence…..did you, or her, or both of you, concentrate on the negatives Pete?…or the positives?…..did you get divorced BEFORE or AFTER no-faults divorce Pete?

    You don’t have to answer it Pete as it’s none of our business. Thanks Pete.

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  39. Harriet (4,514 comments) says:

    PG #

    It may have been John Howard, or I might be wrong, but it was suggested in Australia that disinsentivising[tax code] those who want to leave marriages before the youngest turns about 16 needs to be looked at. I tend to agree.

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  40. Cobolt (82 comments) says:

    @Harriet
    And yet I’ve seen cases where mum had to get away for the sake of the kids, because dad was such a drop kick. Anyone who stays together for the sake of the kids is not doing them any better.
    Again, on face value the stats say Kids from two parent families do better. What if the statement was parents who stay together are generally better adjusted, more level headed and have a better grasp on getting on in life. Who wouldn’t benefit from having parents like that?

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  41. Elaycee (4,301 comments) says:

    @DPF: Has the ‘edit’ function been disabled as part of the upgrade this morning?

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  42. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    You forgot the KIDS from divorces – they don’t just figure in all the above – they nearly TOP the list!

    I’d like to see evidence to back that up.

    I’m not going to go into details about my divorce, but I’ll say that it had been a monagamous relationship with no violence involved, efforts had been made to reconcile for years but failed, and separation was by mutual agreement.

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  43. Manolo (13,367 comments) says:

    Alan Jones forced to apologise: http://www.news.com.au/national/jones-ordered-to-apologise-for-vermin-comments/story-fndo4bst-1226536163024

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  44. Fletch (6,025 comments) says:

    I call bullshit on whoever said that milk is “a luxury they can’t normally afford” in regard to the story on the new Milk In Schools programme mentioned on One News tonight.

    Sorry, but I don’t believe that for one second.

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  45. Fletch (6,025 comments) says:

    Don’t get lost using the new Apple Maps iPhone app.

    Google Maps finally back to download.

    https://itunes.apple.com/nz/app/google-maps/id585027354?mt=8

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  46. eszett (2,334 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,580) Says:
    December 13th, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    Don’t get lost using the new Apple Maps iPhone app.

    Google Maps finally back to download.

    https://itunes.apple.com/nz/app/google-maps/id585027354?mt=8

    Yeah! Thanks for that, I have been waiting for that.

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  47. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/ByGSMmenPDM?rel=0

    What Bradley Ambrose does when he is not eavesdropping on private conversation.

    The Greymouth bar in full roll.

    Some old salt said

    “Thats not fish you are eating but mens lives”

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  48. big bruv (13,292 comments) says:

    Mothers having sex with their sons?

    Is that not classed as normal behaviour in Canterbury?

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  49. publicwatchdog (2,106 comments) says:

    WILL NZ PRIME MINISTER JOHN KEY STAND HIMSELF DOWN AS MINISTER, IF HE IS CRITICISED IN THE UPCOMING OAG INQUIRY INTO HIS ROLE IN THE SKYCITY CONVENTION DEAL?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10853712

    Early draft copies of the inquiry into the SkyCity convention centre deal have gone to Prime Minister John Key and the casino, prompting speculation they are in for criticism.

    There have also been questions about the visibility the outcome of the inquiry will have if it is released just before Christmas, as promised by the Office of the Auditor-General.

    The inquiry was launched after a complaint from Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei over the way SkyCity was chosen to build the proposed international convention centre.

    It was also intended to report on the costs and benefits of each proposal.

    The deal came after Mr Key dined with the board of the casino and suggested they should pitch for the contract to build the convention centre. When SkyCity did, its bid won after it offered to pay the $350 million construction bill in return for gambling concessions which included the ability to have hundreds more pokies.

    Ms Turei said draft copies were provided for “natural justice” reasons.

    “I understand if there is a comment about a person – particularly an adverse comment about a person – they need to have an opportunity to respond.”

    She said she was concerned that comments by the Office of the Auditor-General that the report would be released this year meant it would come out in the festive season.

    “It doesn’t give the public the chance to consider the issue.”

    A spokeswoman for the Auditor-General said the office was aware of the “significant interest” in the report and hoped to publish before the end of the year.

    The spokeswoman said the report’s terms of reference stated “we consult as necessary on its contents to ensure that it is factually accurate and that the rights of any affected parties are properly protected”.

    The draft report comes eight months after the original complaint and six months after the inquiry was launched. The Auditor-General’s guidelines give three-month time frames for most inquiries and six months for those which are “larger and more complex”.

    Mr Key’s office said a draft had been received earlier this week. “We have not provided any feedback as yet and nor have we spoken to SkyCity.”

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________

    errr….if NZ Prime Minister John Key IS criticised in this upcoming OAG Report – will he stand himself down as a Minister for not ‘upholding the highest ethical standards’?

    http://cabinetmanual.cabinetoffice.govt.nz/2.50

    Conduct of Ministers

    2.52A Minister of the Crown, while holding a ministerial warrant, acts in a number of different capacities:

    in a ministerial capacity, making decisions, and determining and promoting policy within particular portfolios;
    in a political capacity as a member of Parliament, representing a constituency or particular community of interest;
    in a personal capacity.
    2.53 In all these roles and at all times, Ministers are expected to act lawfully and to behave in a way that upholds, and is seen to uphold, the highest ethical standards.

    Ultimately, Ministers are accountable to the Prime Minister for their behaviour. ”

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  50. graham (2,215 comments) says:

    SEEN THIS KIWIBLOGGERS?

    Is it appropriate for a self-proclaimed “public watchdog” – who is hounding John Banks over so-called anonymous donations – to accept anonymous donations?

    PENNY BRIGHT ACCEPTS ANONYMOUS DONATION.

    “A last minute anonymous donation of $10,000 is expected to save Water Pressure Group spokesperson Penny Bright from bankruptcy.”

    http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll?AC=SEE_ALSO&QF0=Descriptors&QI0==%22Bright,+Penny%22&XC=/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll&BU=&TN=LocHAM&SN=AUTO11122&SE=398&RN=830&MR=0&TR=0&TX=1000&ES=0&CS=0&XP=&RF=Displayweb&EF=&DF=&RL=0&EL=0&DL=0&NP=2&ID=&MF=WPEngMsg.ini&MQ=&TI=0&DT=&ST=0&IR=15513&NR=0&NB=0&SV=0&SS=0&BG=&FG=&QS=&OEX=ISO-8859-1&OEH=ISO-8859-1

    Is it appropriate for a self-proclaimed “Anti-corruption campaigner” to use money from a shared bank account without approval, as alleged by “Occupy”?

    In another brilliant showing of respect for democracy, Penny completely ignored the G.A. rules that it must approve all funds before they are released (over $100) by usurping the last $200+ in the bank account, without G.A. approval, ostensibly with the help of “Chris Glen” who was on the finance committee and was also a bank signatory.

    For an anti-corruption campaigner who rails against backroom-deals and conflicts of interest – how could she take money outside of G.A. process while simultaneously being tasked as auditor? (Transparency! Accountability!)

    http://occupysavvy.com/2012/11/05/penny-bright-fails-to-co-opt-occupy-auckland-again/

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  51. Viking2 (11,129 comments) says:

    Good News week.

    Turia going, legacy staying

    Maori Party co-leader Tariana Turia will not stand for Parliament again in 2014, saying she will finally go ahead with plans to retire and could step down as party co-leader by the middle of next year.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10853957

    Perhaps Banks would like to take them over as well! :lol:

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  52. Manolo (13,367 comments) says:

    Putin’s long and criminal arm: http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8579939/russian-state-involved-in-litvinenko-death

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  53. Manolo (13,367 comments) says:

    Not only an AGW conert but also a distinguished football coach: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/sport/phoenix/8078160/Morgan-on-the-attack-with-Herbert

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