General Debate 14 December 2012

December 14th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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118 Responses to “General Debate 14 December 2012”

  1. 103PapPap (131 comments) says:

    How come Joe Karam was allowed to sit in Justice Binnies meetings?

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  2. bringbackdemocracy (419 comments) says:

    How come Binnie refused to look at an affidavit by one of the jurors and yet read Karem’s books?
    Sounds similar to Nigel Latta’s review of the smacking law.

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  3. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    Just think, if we’d had the death penalty mass murderers would be executed.

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  4. kowtow (8,114 comments) says:

    Here in the red neck south the ODT tells us that Binnie blames the cops for “egregious errors” that led to the wrongful conviction.

    And here was me thinking it was a murderer who killed all the members of the same family,bar one, who was responsible.

    Aren’t the police useful? They can always be blamed when things go wrong.

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  5. 103PapPap (131 comments) says:

    How much would a paper boy earn in 13 years?

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  6. Nick K (1,200 comments) says:

    NZ over the last 15years:

    “Bain did it. No he didn’t. Yes he did. No he didn’t. Yes he did. Binnie is right. No he’s Not, Fisher is. No he’s not. Yes he is. Bain did it. No he didn’t. Fisher is right. No he’s not.”

    NZ in 2035:

    “Bain did it. No he didn’t. Yes he did. No he didn’t. Yes he did. Binnie is right. No he’s Not, Fisher is. No he’s not. Yes he is. Bain did it. No he didn’t. Fisher is right. No he’s not.”

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  7. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    kowtow – the Dunedin police DID perform egregious activities and – like the kahui twins and many other enquires – if the police had done a proper and professional job we wouldnt have this carry on we have today.

    Yes – it was murderer who killed the family – but due to the stupidity of the police they never got the right evidence to establish who that was. The Dundedin police made up their mind who it was on day 1 and just assumed everyone would agree with them. And then when they found that not everyone agreed – they then arranged for the house to be burned down – but only after one of the policemen put grafitti on the house proclaiming who the murderer was.

    bloody idiots.

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  8. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    Nick K: someone on National Radio made the point this morning that that very uncertainty from intellegent people is exactly why Binnie is wrong – Bain is clearly not innocent on a balance of probabilities.

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  9. hj (6,794 comments) says:

    From JohnMaudlins letter:

    The US is lucky; there is plenty of oil and gas below our borders, with much of it in private
    hands. There are estimates the US could be energy independent within 7-10 years. But it will not
    be easy. Skeptic Arthur Berman recently presented Oil-Prone Shale Plays: The Illusion of Energy
    Independence. He estimates that it will take 1,488 new wells a year in the Bakken just to replace
    the oil currently produced there, as wells deplete over time. He argues (quite well) that the US will
    not become energy independent. You can read his report at

    http://www.sipeshouston.org/Presentations.sh.sem.10.2012/8%20Oil%20Shale.pdf.

    His analysis suggests that oil prices will have to remain high or go even higher for shale oil
    to be profitable. I think he is right on that. I have always maintained that we are not likely to run
    out of oil for a very long time; we will just run out of cheap oil. Thankfully, there are alternatives
    being developed over time. The cost of producing solar energy has dropped about 50% per decade
    for a long time. In another few decades solar will be quite competitive with carbon-based energy.
    Nuclear remains my favourite shorter-term source, but it confronts considerable political
    opposition in many countries.

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  10. kowtow (8,114 comments) says:

    barry,I’m bagging binny.

    Howver,a jury didagree with the Crown first time round. Where’s the problem? (rhetorical)

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  11. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    Barry, yes the police did make up their mind on day one. But after they examined the scene carefully, they realised that the wool was being pulled over their eyes.

    Hence the lack of proceedure early on.

    As for burning down the house, that comment simply betrays a complete ignorance of the vandalism that had gone on. It was probably just a matter of time before someone burned the thing down in an *un* controlled manner.

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  12. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    The big problem is this:

    You have a guy stabbed to death on Fred St. The police establish that Joe was walking down that street that night, and that Joe likes to carry a knife.

    Together these form the core of the case.

    Binnie’s approach would go like this:
    1. Joe was walking down that street that night, but so were many other people. Therefore on the balance it is unlikely that Joe was the killer.
    2. Joe often carries a knife, but that does not nessessarily mean he did that night.

    So by taking the circumstantial evidence one by one, he dismisses them one by one. But that’s not how circumstantial evidence works. It’s not the chances of each individial item, it’s the chance of the combination. It’s like claiming a big lotto win based on getting one ball right 8 weeks in a row.

    That’s just one problem with the report.

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  13. David Garrett (6,912 comments) says:

    Scrubone: You have nailed it (I don’t know if you are one of the brethren). Circumstantial evidence is often explained to juries as being like a hemp rope made up of many strands, any one of which – or even several – may not support the load, but which interwoven together make up a strong rope…kind of an apt analogy in this case also…

    Nick K: You have nailed it too my boy…Which is partyly why I spend my time doing more constructive things than commenting at length on Bain…the reason the “Crown” took 11 years to pay Sue Couch for harm arising from errors they themselves admitted in the High Court nine years ago is a far better use of time and energy…

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  14. Elaycee (4,349 comments) says:

    How much would a paper boy earn in 13 years?

    Probably not a lot. Especially if he was receiving free board and lodgings. :D

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  15. Pete George (23,420 comments) says:

    Red Alert has become little more than a bash blog for Labour MPs. Grant Robertson highlights the four Labour speeches in the adjournment debate by promoting a pissfest.

    They are happy to dish it out but are paranoid about any hint of criticism from within. Grinch Robertson’s Christmas jeer.

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  16. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:
    How much would a paper boy earn in 13 years?

    Probably not a lot. Especially if he was receiving free board and lodgings.

    Gee, I wonder what his motive was? Binne seemed to think that just because no one had settled on one, it didn’t exist.

    I’m picking that he hated his families guts and wanted to sell the land under the house.

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  17. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    (I don’t know if you are one of the brethren)

    I’ve got several guesses as to what this might mean, and in all cases the answer is no :)

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  18. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    How come Joe Karam was allowed to sit in Justice Binnies meetings?

    People are usually allowed supporters at these sorts of things.

    The more intesting question is will Karam get a return on his investment?

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  19. Pete George (23,420 comments) says:

    And in his weekly ‘news’letter David Sheare has a jeer too, but lauds Labour’s marvelous successes:

    We end 2012 in a strong position. Our team in Parliament have held the Government to account for its many failings. We’ve closed the gap on National, and Labour is setting the agenda on the issues that count – the economy and jobs, housing and education.

    Kiwis deserve better, and Labour has spent the last 12 months doing the hard yards in Opposition so that we are ready to deliver in Government come 2014.

    We’ve charted a new direction for New Zealand, where a hands-on Labour Government backs our families, workers and businesses. We’ve rolled out major new policies on affordable housing, education and jobs.

    There’s plenty more hard work to be done, but as the year winds down Labour can look back on a great year.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/shearer-says-11/

    A great year? Yeah, left.

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  20. dime (9,788 comments) says:

    listening to any talkback is funny. most of the bain supporters seem to have other issues with the police. go figure.

    if this same case happened in say texas. you were presented the same facts and asked to make a deicision youd convict.

    the other bain supporters seem to be our media and “local celebrity” elites. listening to hosking this morning one couldnt help but think “does this guy have an education?”.

    Wendall was better her argument to jeremy was “shut up, just shut up” haha fuckin lefty idiot.

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  21. kaykaybee (153 comments) says:

    I was just rereading an excellent piece Dr Brian Edwards wrote after the Bryan Bruce’s compelling documentary, and would like to share some of his clarity and wisdom.

    ” There is general agreement that either David or his father Robin were responsible for the killings. There is no other suspect.

    If David is indeed innocent, then what we are asked to believe is that on the morning of June 20, 1994 Robin Bain slaughtered four members of his family, including his 14-year-old son, Stephen, who fought desperately for his life. Robin then shot himself in the temple with the rifle he had used to kill the others. Despite this bloodbath, his hands, clothes and footwear were almost entirely free of blood, what blood there was did not come from any member of his family, and his fingerprints were not found anywhere on the rifle.

    Like Bruce, I find this scenario improbable.

    Based partly on the discovery in the downstairs washing machine of a green jersey, known to have been worn by Stephen’s killer, we are then asked to surmise that Robin washed his blood-stained clothes in the washing machine and may have changed into other clothing, before taking his own life.

    Like Bruce again, I find the idea fanciful that a man who has just slaughtered four members of his family and is intent on taking his own life, would go to the trouble of trying to conceal the evidence against him. What would be the point? If Robin Bain did indeed murder his wife and three of his children before turning the gun on himself, it can only have been an act of absolute despair, surely incompatible with the coolly calculated action involved in destroying the evidence.

    Where motive is concerned, David Bain’s defence team relied on the proposition that Robin had been engaged in an incestuous relationship with his 18-year-old daughter Laniet and, fearing exposure, took his own life and the lives of her mother Margaret, sister Arawa and brother Stephen.

    Bruce essentially argues that Laniet was a fantasist who invented the story of the incestuous relationship and of having given birth to a black baby after being raped in Papua New Guinea. He also casts doubt on the evidence of a photocopier salesman, Daryl Young, who claimed to have seen a half-naked Robin Bain coming out of his van in a camping ground and to have heard the voice of a young woman inside.

    But it is the lack of blood on Robin’s clothes and the absence of his fingerprints on the rifle with which he is accused of having killed four members of his family and himself, that seem to me to stretch credibility to near breaking point.”

    http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2010/07/a-persuasive-defence-of-robin-bain/

    Binnie’s report is beyond flawed.

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  22. Andrei (2,536 comments) says:

    Parliamentary debate at its finest

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  23. Pete George (23,420 comments) says:

    It must be the silly season:

    CathDelahunty? No ! ‏@CathDelahuntyMP

    I believe the children are the future and we should pay for them all because when they murder us its our fault we didnt love them

    Not explained is how “pay for them all” is connected to “love them”.

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  24. Yvette (2,761 comments) says:

    Regarding Bain

    Collins –
    … He [Binnie] did not have authority to conclude whether there were extraordinary circumstances or to make a recommendation on whether compensation should be paid …

    Fairfax video – http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8078128/David-Bains-claim-in-limbo

    I understand Bain himself must establish that there are extraordinary circumstances to allow compensation to be paid. When and to whom does he do that?
    ______________

    This seems a very results oriented retainer. Normally one would expect him to make his analysis of my Report, and to have his analysis considered by the Minister, BEFORE a decision to have Mr Fisher do an entirely new Report “on the merits”. It seems clear the Minister had already made up her mind on Septermber 26 regarding the outcome. The only function ofMr Fisher’s “first stage” report was, according to his own recitation, to provide a rationale for a Ministerial decision already taken.
    – Ian Binnie, Response from Justice Binnie, email December 13, 2012

    Does Binnie expect Fisher to write the next report?
    Is Fisher out of contention because of his views of Binnie?

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  25. hj (6,794 comments) says:

    Tuhoi “we have always been here. We are as old as the mist and the mountains” Tamati Kruger-national park. Claims his grand or great grandfather plucked the name Kruger (something to do with WW1) and so is no blood connection…. I’d check that out however given the first claim.

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  26. hj (6,794 comments) says:

    10:05 Big Year Interview : Tamati Kruger
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon/20121214

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  27. hj (6,794 comments) says:

    Who was it talking about two standards of interviewing..?
    Heh!

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  28. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    Not explained is how “pay for them all” is connected to “love them”.

    Sure you’ve got the actual member for mars? The fake twitter is hard to tell from the real.

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  29. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    Oooo, look. As if we needed it, more evidence of carbon trading fraud:

    Carbon tax scam: 500 police and tax inspectors raided Deutsche Bank

    Deutsche Bank co-chief executive Juergen Fitschen was drawn into a widening tax evasion probe linked to carbon trading at Germany’s biggest lender on Wednesday as police and tax inspectors raided its offices.

    Prosecutors said they were investigating 25 bank staff on suspicion of severe tax evasion, money laundering and obstruction of justice, and searched the headquarters and private residences in Berlin, Duesseldorf and Frankfurt.

    “Two of Deutsche Bank’s Management Board members Juergen Fitschen and Stefan Krause are involved in the investigations as they signed the value-added tax statement for 2009,” Deutsche Bank (DBKGn.DE) said in a statement.
    :::
    Around 500 police and tax inspectors raided Deutsche Bank, arresting five staff in a probe linked to a tax scam involving the trading of carbon permits.

    When big-business and the Greens support the same thing it’s time to put a halt to it.

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  30. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    Bruce essentially argues that Laniet was a fantasist who invented the story of the incestuous relationship and of having given birth to a black baby after being raped in Papua New Guinea.

    I think Bruce made a good case on that one. The allegation of incest is just that, an allegation. Unlike the murders we do not even know whether a crime even occured.

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  31. James Stephenson (2,132 comments) says:

    The allegation of incest is just that, an allegation.

    We also know, somewhat more reliably, that Laniet was very scared of her brother.

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  32. david (2,570 comments) says:

    There is altogether too much attention being paid to the argument over Bain’s innocence or guilt when we know that there will never be certainty(as per Nick K)

    Surely the real question behind the issue of compensation is whether or not there was a miscarriage of justice for which the Crown should take responsibility.

    In the case of A A Thomas as one example there was ample evidence that the Police manufactured evidence and that there was some kind of conspiracy to prove a pre-meditated guilt by fair means or foul. Since then however there have been many cases which have had successful appeals. Does any reversal of a guilty verdict trigger the payment of compensation for “wrongful imprisonment”? I would say not, that is our justice system in action.

    No-one has come up with any compelling evidence that would make David Bain qualify for compensation IMHO. Binnie has tried to put it back on Police ineptitude but even he has failed to posit successfully that the Crown is responsible for a miscarriage when two juries produced their verdicts.

    Now Bain may be as innocent and pure as the driven snow but I can’t see a case for compo. Sometimes shit happens but we hope we get it right in the end.

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  33. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    So by taking the circumstantial evidence one by one, he dismisses them one by one. But that’s not how circumstantial evidence works. It’s not the chances of each individial item, it’s the chance of the combination.

    You’ve missed the entire point of Binnie’s report.

    The problem with Fisher’s argument is that you cannot add pieces of circumstantial evidence to a probability calculus unless you have a reasonable idea of how probable your claims about each piece of evidence are (for example: how likely is it that the incest allegations are true). If you don’t do this, then you have no logical way of factoring in each piece of evidence in a way that will affect the overall outcome. Binnie dismisses much of the evidence for this reason, and it’s hard to say it is wrong because for most of it the answer is “f**k knows how likely that is to be true”. Much of the evidence has to be eliminated because it is merely speculative rather than probable.

    The other point is that Binnie is dealing with the evidence, not simpliciter, but in respect of the prosecution’s own theory of the crime (following the Privy Council). His basic argument is that if we assign the relative weights that the Crown wanted to assign to the pieces of evidence, then it actually comes out in Bain’s favour. For example, IIRC the prosecution’s case is that whoever left the bloody footprints was the killer (i.e. the conditional probability of the footprints identifying the killer equals 1). The only evidence says that the footprints are too small to be David’s, ergo David wins, because on the Crown’s own weighting of the relative importance of the evidence, the Crown loses. Now, the Crown might want to go back and redo their argument, but it is the State that is being asked to compensate Bain for its own actions. Hence, it is perfectly reasonable to use their own standards against them, which is what Binnie did.

    Fisher is using the old trick of “can’t win on the evidence, so I’m going to try to make it about theory”.

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  34. James Stephenson (2,132 comments) says:

    Does any reversal of a guilty verdict trigger the payment of compensation for “wrongful imprisonment”?

    Of course not, otherwise we’d be paying out wrongful imprisonment compo for everyone who spends time on remand before being found not guilty.

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  35. Wayne91 (143 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson (232) Says:
    December 14th, 2012 at 10:57 am

    How would your explantion fare if the same reasoning was applied to Robin Bain do you think?

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  36. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    The banal conversation continues

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  37. david (2,570 comments) says:

    James Stephenson – you are on to it.

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  38. SGA (982 comments) says:

    “Bruce essentially argues that Laniet was a fantasist who invented the story of the incestuous relationship and of having given birth to a black baby after being raped in Papua New Guinea.

    I think Bruce made a good case on that one. The allegation of incest is just that, an allegation. Unlike the murders we do not even know whether a crime even occured.”

    You can cut this cloth both ways. *If* Robin Bain was struggling with life and felt that his family had turned against him, then having a daughter make false allegations would be a just as damaging, perhaps even more so, than if the allegations were true. Such allegations are difficult to defend oneself against.

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  39. Pete George (23,420 comments) says:

    scrubone – that’s the fake one but yes, it can be hard telling them apart. Here’s one from each…

    Water rights and assets sales, the costs are being born by Maori litigants, what about Te Tiriti?

    …and…

    Te Tiriti means taxpayers should always pay for Maori seeking to challenge the Crown’s inherent racism – we Pakeha are all racists

    …I think.

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  40. David Garrett (6,912 comments) says:

    Jeez…I promised myself I wouldn’t do this..

    Can some member of the “Robin Bain did it” gang explain to me – a few sentences will do thanks – why Bain senior went into such bizarre contortions to shoot himself rather than simply unscrew the silencer to make the weapon shorter, and thus fit under his chin for the “standard” suicide by shooting scenario?

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  41. Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left (783 comments) says:

    “Jeez…I promised myself I wouldn’t do this..

    Can some member of the “Robin Bain did it” gang explain to me – a few sentences will do thanks – why Bain senior went into such bizarre contortions to shoot himself rather than simply unscrew the silencer to make the weapon shorter, and thus fit under his chin for the “standard” suicide by shooting scenario?”

    he ran out of time after changing into those trackpants with holes in them, destroying his bloodied socks, and leaving that message…… do you remember how long it took for a computer to boot-up in 1994?

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  42. Peter (1,686 comments) says:

    Perhaps it was jammed? Difficult to remove quickly?

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  43. Wayne91 (143 comments) says:

    Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left (706) Says:

    December 14th, 2012 at 11:24 am
    he ran out of time after changing into those trackpants with holes in them, destroying his bloodied socks, and leaving that message…… do you remember how long it took for a computer to boot-up in 1994?

    Ran out of time for what? – Do people hurry because of time constraints to kill themselves?

    If so why take the to time to kill all the others and then hurry to kill yourself – doesn’t sound right to me.

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  44. Nick K (1,200 comments) says:

    Jeez….me too…..but:

    The killer wore gloves. So, Robin Bain wore gloves to conceal the fact it was him and then left a note to the world telling us it was him.

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  45. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    You can cut this cloth both ways. *If* Robin Bain was struggling with life and felt that his family had turned against him, then having a daughter make false allegations would be a just as damaging, perhaps even more so, than if the allegations were true. Such allegations are difficult to defend oneself against.

    A good point. Had not considered that.

    But that would be a good reason to comit suicide. Not such a good reason to kill everyone in sight.

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  46. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I see those humourless vile little people, crying out for the prank call DJ’s to be punished for having a bit of fun, are revealing their true natures. The DJ’s have now been subject to numerous death threats. This makes it hard to believe these vicious people are genuinely concerned about human life. Like I said at the time, the RRM’s and Nostalia’s of this world are full of shit.

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  47. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    I see those humourless vile little people, … are revealing their true natures.

    .

    I was making a general comment about how these discussions usually go. That you instantly leap to defend yourself like that is amusing and a little disturbing.

    Keep up the good work defending socialists. How many have you lot murdered and starved to death now? The generally agreed figure is about 150 million, but its still going up daily.

    That is what YOU are attempting to defend.

    Pot meet kettle.

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  48. SGA (982 comments) says:

    @scrubone “But that would be a good reason to comit suicide. Not such a good reason to kill everyone in sight.”

    I’m wouldn’t count myself as “Bainaphobe” or a “Bainaphile” (Bainiacs, perhaps), so I haven’t got a clear answer. My guess is, as a general principle, that having false allegations made against you would make you angrier at others than true ones?

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  49. Harriet (4,741 comments) says:

    There is no more significant differance in the law between civil unions and marriage, than in the law that reflects the differance between a male and a female.

    And that is as about as ‘equal’ as you could ever possably get where the law is concerned!

    Anyone seen Ryan?..:cool:

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  50. Dirty Rat (383 comments) says:

    A helluva tragedy in Rarotonga and reminder to obey the signs and never swim in the channel at Viamaanga

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  51. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    scrubone, try and include a point in your posts. It makes them more interesting.

    Here is little bit of recent socialist history for your reading pleasure:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/16/opinion/16iht-eddikotter16.html?_r=0

    Those were the days A ?

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  52. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    Kea, the point is I made a benign comment that people need to look at the facts, and you worked your way into a hate-filled lather ending with acusing me of supporting genocide.

    Yet here you are, calling other people vile and humourless.

    Does that translate it for you? I know it’s all set out pretty simple and all but who knows what facts you might imagine up out of thin air. Who knows where you might end up this time?

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  53. Pete George (23,420 comments) says:

    Kea, try and include a point in your posts. It makes them more interesting.

    And you really don’t see the point that scrubone made?

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  54. RRM (9,762 comments) says:

    Just RIP it Pete. It’s not worth it. I have, and I’ve never looked back.

    It’s just as blindly opinionated and abusive as Redbaiter, but without the background knowledge & life experience to back it up. It’s a bit thick too.

    You’d have a much better conversation about New Zealand politics with an actual (feathered) Kea :-)

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  55. RF (1,363 comments) says:

    David Garrett. 11.18 am. David that is one of my concerns and I am unable to accept that it was suicide in spite the experts saying it was. About 90% of suicides by firearm (rifle / shotgun) that I attended were as described by you. In the mouth, under the chin and in one case in the upper chest. Usually the trigger was pulled by a finger, big toe or short stick or similar. The few others were temple shots …. right handed person shooting themselves in the right temple. From memory i dont think i ever came across one with a shot to the left temple. Not a pleasant way to take ones life but very simple and effective.

    The reason that I attended so many suicides in the major cities i worked in was to rule out foul play plus such cases had to be reported to the coroner.

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  56. Viking2 (11,338 comments) says:

    Everyone excludes a third party. Just suppose there was a third party!

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  57. thedavincimode (6,606 comments) says:

    Tom Jackson

    You’ve missed the entire point of Binnie’s report.

    No, that was Binnie missing the point of Binnie’s report.

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  58. David Garrett (6,912 comments) says:

    RF: I dont recall any EXPERT saying it was suicide…the Bain defence team presented a theory of the case which had Bain senior using unlikely and awkward contortions to shoot himself in the way he did, and the second jury bought that theory. That’s quite a different thing from an expert opinion…

    To me, that one piece of evidence alone points strongly away from Robin as the culprit. And Nick K has just made an excellent point: Why on earth would you wear gloves and then leave an ” I dunnit” suicide note?

    Just out of interest Nick, in your time in the force did you ever come across a suicide where the deceased had contorted himself thus in order to shoot himself?

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  59. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    Everyone excludes a third party. Just suppose there was a third party!

    Or the possiblity that Robin killed some and David the others.

    I once met someone who was convinced that the police did it to shut up Laniet.

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  60. thedavincimode (6,606 comments) says:

    I once met someone who was convinced that the police did it to shut up Laniet.

    flipper by any chance?

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  61. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    The only thing I can reiterate is that these five members of my family were my life. They were part of who I was. We were extremely close. We all loved each other dearly. The last thing that I could possibly have done is to take their lives. I find it difficult hurting an animal, but to take a person’s life, let alone my own family’s life is unimaginable and not only have I served 13 years in prison for doing this,

    If that’s not David Bain spinning BS, I don’t know what is. First the nonsense about the loving family – when his defense was that it was anything but.

    Then, it was his gun, and part of his defense was that he used it to kill animals. Yet here he is saying that he is such a gentle soul that he woudn’t hurt a fly.

    Incredible.

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  62. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Yes Pete, RIP me and anyone else who does not agree with you. It’s the lefy way to prevent any opposing views from being expressed. You don’t think socialists murdered all those millions just for fun, do you?

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  63. thedavincimode (6,606 comments) says:

    scrubone

    It wasn’t just the fact that he included that quote at all, so much as it was positioned quite clearly in the hearts and flowers section as if it might by in any way relevant.

    But what about the first 20 paras. It would have taken one, two at most, paragraphs in which to confirm his instructions and the scope of his engagement. Instead he spent 20 self-serving paragraphs re-constructing those instructions in a way that served no other purpose than to lay the groundwork for him to disappear on his own private campaign.

    It is not hard to understand that Collins didn’t have to read very far before thinking: “WTF?”. Probably about para 3.

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  64. RRM (9,762 comments) says:

    Chavez suffers “Chavez-style” complications during cancer surgery:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/8079882/Chavez-suffered-complications-in-surgery

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  65. David Garrett (6,912 comments) says:

    scrub: Yes, I also picked up those two anomalies…leaving aside whether shooting animals is necessarily “hurting” them, I don’t think even the defence tried to portray the Bains as a normal common or garden family did they? Even leaving the incest allegation aside, there was clearly some pretty strange dynamics going on in that household…

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  66. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Re: Chavez. The faster he goes, the better Venezuela will be.

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  67. thedavincimode (6,606 comments) says:

    DG

    If shooting animals isn’t necessarily “hurting” them, then maybe shooting your family isn’t hurting them either.

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  68. thedavincimode (6,606 comments) says:

    Yes Pete, RIP me and anyone else who does not agree with you. It’s the lefy way to prevent any opposing views from being expressed.

    With the benefit of hindsight, do you now realise just how stupid that statement was?

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  69. Pete George (23,420 comments) says:

    There’s all sorts of weird possibilities. Robin and David could have jointly killed the family and then either David assisted Robin or turned on him. We know that it probably wasn’t the CIA or KGB and we know with certainty that no one was abducted by aliens.

    Have the sequence and timings of David doing everything – killing everyone in their bedrooms except waiting for his father to come inside and fitting in his paper run as well – been thoroughly examined?

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  70. Pete George (23,420 comments) says:

    Ah, but davinci, maybe they cower into shameful silence when I announce I’ve RIPped them.

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  71. Pete George (23,420 comments) says:

    But I’ve never used RIP, I have this super duper mouse that makes scrolling past crap easy.

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  72. dime (9,788 comments) says:

    why would you RIP kia? hes a funny bastard.

    Id RIP penny george but then i wouldnt get hourly updates on what people commenting at the standard were saying..

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  73. Elaycee (4,349 comments) says:

    Id RIP penny george but then i wouldnt get hourly updates on what people commenting at the standard were saying..

    Heh…. :D

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  74. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Let’s be honest: the only bastard deserving RIP is the bludger Ure.

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  75. thedavincimode (6,606 comments) says:

    I see he holds a special place in your heart Manolo …

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  76. David Garrett (6,912 comments) says:

    Mano: Well the prick seems to have disappeared! I have confirmed that he didn’t take up the position I arranged for him at I Suk Up Ltd (proudly cleaning septics in the Rodney area since 1992). When the proprietor called for my used poo the other day he remembered my arranging the job for him, but had never heard from Ure himself.

    I must admit to being amazed he has restrained himself from coming here for nigh on six months though…perhaps a condition of not being charged with benefit fraud was that he stop blogging?

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  77. Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left (783 comments) says:

    Sarcasm Wayne, sarcasm

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  78. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Well the prick seems to have disappeared!

    It’s a triumph and a victory for KB and all concerned, and I do hope he never returns.
    But….. let’s do not tempt fate.

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  79. dime (9,788 comments) says:

    DG – you organised a job on his behalf? youre brave!

    phil is like the candyman. say his name 3 times and he appears so be careful!

    i think he turned into hinamaurur or whatever its called

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  80. Pete George (23,420 comments) says:

    Funny dime, you’re the one with an obsession, you’ve been mentioning that blog (and me) more than I have.

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  81. dime (9,788 comments) says:

    really? your first post of the day was some garbage about red alert.

    second post was about the standard

    third was about the green nutters tweet.

    just a few points:

    1) youre a boring girl
    2) you dont give people enough reason to go to your blog. you deliver your main points here. i think more marketing is required on your part. like “head over to my blog for my latest take on what anonymous commenter “apple43″ had to say at the standard and how it reflects badly on labour” or “head over to my blog and ill explain why i love to lick dunnes bunghole”
    3) elaycee gets a cheap laugh when i call you penny george!

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  82. RRM (9,762 comments) says:

    I thought Phool got banned into next year or something? (It says 4 months on the demerits page, but it’s not clear when the start date was.)

    maybe they cower into shameful silence when I announce I’ve RIPped them.

    Maybe they care … maybe they don’t.

    I can honestly say I have no idea! :-P

    And that’s the very best thing about it! :cool:

    When Thomas Gray wrote that ignorance is bliss he had my present circumstances in mind, he just didn’t fully appreciate it at the time.

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  83. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    RRM, yours are words of wisdom, indeed.

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  84. RRM (9,762 comments) says:

    DG – or maybe his computer has been repossessed?

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  85. graham (2,315 comments) says:

    RRM – nope, he’s still posting copious amounts of crap on whoar.

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  86. Viking2 (11,338 comments) says:

    DG. Met some people who were in PNG when the Bains were there. She was described as weird as could be, very strange.

    Mind you she was a Cullen. Probably tells us a lot.

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  87. RRM (9,762 comments) says:

    What’s Whoar? Is it a website or something?

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  88. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    or maybe his computer has been repossessed?

    Maybe he lost his library card?

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  89. Elaycee (4,349 comments) says:

    RRM:

    What’s Whoar? Is it a website or something?

    Its the sound of the scream you make when the toilet seat slams down onto your manhood whilst you’re quietly standing there doing your business….. :(

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  90. thedavincimode (6,606 comments) says:

    It’s a something by default as the prevailing and unanimous consensus is that it is most defintely not a website.

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  91. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    ignorance is bliss he had my present circumstances in mind

    That ignorance is apparent in many of RRM’s posts. It is the predictable outcome when a person only listens to their own view of the world. He would be more at home on a far left site, that invariably edits and deletes any view that shows them up.

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  92. Pete George (23,420 comments) says:

    I didn’t mention that blog. The second post wasn’t about The Standard, it was about David Shearer. He gets talked about quite a bit, even here.

    I do the opposite of Penny, she dumps everything into comments here. I make points that are sufficient for discussion if anyone’s interested, and allow people to click through to more detail if they want that. One of the main rasons for that is to avoid unnessary clutter here. One of the core components of blogging is to provide summaries with links to sources with more detail. And, ah, quite often quite a few people seem to have enough reason. For every grizzle here hundreds choose to look for more.

    You may not realise it but this web thingy allows you to choose what you read and what you click through to.

    But you know that. I’m sure some people enjoy seeing you moaning.

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  93. thedavincimode (6,606 comments) says:

    LAC

    No, that’s the scream of delight the lazy little prick emits when he sees the bludge payment credited.

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  94. graham (2,315 comments) says:

    It’s philu’s hobby – a collection of “copy and pastes” from a bunch of websites.

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  95. dime (9,788 comments) says:

    trust me penny, i skip through your garbage posts.

    i will say though – your first words of the day “red alert”, then when i scroll i see a url to the standard.

    didnt read the rest of your comment, started nodding off after the first sentence

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  96. RRM (9,762 comments) says:

    This week’s ructions on The Standard were cool for a day or so but I think we’re all over it now…

    The labour party power elite are devious and untrustworthy, who’d have seen that coming?

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  97. scrubone (3,090 comments) says:

    That ignorance is apparent in many of RRM’s posts. It is the predictable outcome when a person only listens to their own view of the world.

    From a guy who keeps calling me a socialist, this is irony plus.

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  98. chiz (1,132 comments) says:

    Andrei – saw a story about that fight in the Ukrainian parliament last night on the BBC. Ironic that Vladimir Klitschko is now an MP there but was just standing to one side with his arms folded not getting involved.

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  99. Andrei (2,536 comments) says:

    Wasn’t Vladimir Klitschko, Chiz, it was his brother Vitali.

    His party wasn’t involved in last nights rumble but he has mixed it in the past

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  100. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9743005/Actor-denies-raping-teenager-claiming-he-suffered-sexsomnia-sleep-disorder.html

    Well obviously with a never before heard of medical condition that he has just made this man deserves compensation. There is a retired Canadian who may not get paid for his last gig who will be able to do a report.

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  101. publicwatchdog (2,489 comments) says:

    Here you go Kiwibloggers!

    Sink your gums into this one :)

    NZ IS A CORRUPT, POLLUTED TAX HAVEN!
    MY PUBLISHED COMMENT ON THIS ‘ROLLING STONE’ ARTICLE:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/outrageous-hsbc-settlement-proves-the-drug-war-is-a-joke-20121213

    New Zealand – ‘perceived’ to be the ‘least corrupt country in the world’ according to the 2012 Transparency International ‘Corruption Perception Index’ (along with Denmark and Finland) – has a Prime Minister who used to be a Wall St BANK$TER – (in 1999 – 2000 John Key was a former foreign exchange advisor for the New York Federal Reserve, and was the Head of Derivatives for Merrill Lynch.

    NZ Prime Minister John Key, is currently a shareholder in the Bank of America.

    (This would be unlawful in Australia – but NZ hasn’t even yet ratified the UN Convention Against Corruption!)

    EVIDENCE!

    http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rd

    Rt Hon John KEY (National, Helensville)

    Bank of America – banking

    Bank of America – short term deposit
    _____________________________________________________

    The reality is that New Zealand is a corrupt, polluted tax haven.

    Sorry to pop the hot air balloon……

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption campaigner’
    New Zealand

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  102. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Here comes another bludger, the deranged Miss Dim, well deserving earner of RIP, after Ure.

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  103. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Pauleastbay (3,009) Says:
    December 14th, 2012 at 6:13 pm

    Well obviously with a never before heard of medical condition…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_sex

    Not really unheard of.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-473525/Sexsomniac-RAF-man-sobs-cleared-raping-girl-sleep.html

    “An RAF mechanic who claimed he was sleepwalking when he had sex with a 15-year-old girl was cleared of rape yesterday.”

    Not saying it’s true in this case mind you…

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  104. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    ” He had drunk a bottle of vodka”…….

    Silly me, it is sexsomnia, the cynic in me says he might have just been pissed to bits.

    Our actor was also on the piss, again the cynic says , sexsomnia never seems to strike after a nice cup of Bovril and a good book.

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  105. graham (2,315 comments) says:

    Talking of corruption … :)

    SEEN THIS KIWIBLOGGERS?

    Is it appropriate for a self-proclaimed “Anti-corruption campaigner” to use money from a shared bank account without approval, as alleged by “Occupy”?

    In another brilliant showing of respect for democracy, Penny completely ignored the G.A. rules that it must approve all funds before they are released (over $100) by usurping the last $200+ in the bank account, without G.A. approval, ostensibly with the help of “Chris Glen” who was on the finance committee and was also a bank signatory.

    For an anti-corruption campaigner who rails against backroom-deals and conflicts of interest – how could she take money outside of G.A. process while simultaneously being tasked as auditor? (Transparency! Accountability!)

    http://occupysavvy.com/2012/11/05/penny-bright-fails-to-co-opt-occupy-auckland-again/

    Is it appropriate for a self-proclaimed “public watchdog” – who is hounding John Banks over so-called anonymous donations – to accept anonymous donations?

    PENNY BRIGHT ACCEPTS ANONYMOUS DONATION.

    “A last minute anonymous donation of $10,000 is expected to save Water Pressure Group spokesperson Penny Bright from bankruptcy.”

    http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll?AC=SEE_ALSO&QF0=Descriptors&QI0==%22Bright,+Penny%22&XC=/dbtw-wpd/exec/dbtwpub.dll&BU=&TN=LocHAM&SN=AUTO11122&SE=398&RN=830&MR=0&TR=0&TX=1000&ES=0&CS=0&XP=&RF=Displayweb&EF=&DF=&RL=0&EL=0&DL=0&NP=2&ID=&MF=WPEngMsg.ini&MQ=&TI=0&DT=&ST=0&IR=15513&NR=0&NB=0&SV=0&SS=0&BG=&FG=&QS=&OEX=ISO-8859-1&OEH=ISO-8859-1

    Is it fair for someone who “claims” to be concerned about the less fortunate members of our society to picket a charity lunch that aims to raise money for a new children’s ward at Waitakere hospital, solely to make some sort of point about John Key?

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/9/general_debate_28_september_2012.html#comment-1027535

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  106. Steve (North Shore) (4,538 comments) says:

    Whoar is a ‘flog’ not a ‘blog’ He pinches shit from the interweby thingy and repeats it.
    Once it is up and going the ‘flog’ will be sold to American news outfits.
    (actually he is full of shit and permanently stoned at the taxpayers expense)

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  107. Komata (1,157 comments) says:

    graham: Congratulations, I think you’ve found a deterrent. Please continue to use it.

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  108. nasska (11,078 comments) says:

    PRESS RELEASE

    Your pockets are not the only place in your pants the IRD
    are interested in — now they’re heading for your zipper.
    The IRD is planning to tax sex!

    “Labour in its vision for a truly encompassing touchy-feely
    society realises that NZ has a HUGE budget deficit &
    needs more money,” says Barry Todwell, who works for the
    IRD’ “INT” division — Ingenious New Taxes.
    “We thought ‘Everybody indulges in sex. Let’s tax that!'”

    But since sex isn’t income, the opposition’s proposal had problems.

    “But then we realized that sex enhances feelings of self-WORTH,
    & once their WORTH went up, that was close enough to
    income!”

    Todwell says the Labour caucus is working on how to track how
    much sex people are having & tax the activity accordingly.
    “We’re experimenting with putting motion detectors in all new
    mattresses so we’ll know when couples are doing more than
    sleeping. “We’re also perfecting an Orgasm Detector. When
    people climax, it emits a certain psychic energy we can track.”

    But the most effective way might be the easiest, Todwell says.
    “We’ll just ask guys. They always exaggerate how much sex
    they have, so we’ll really cream it here.

    “And any blokes who aren’t having sex would rather pay money to
    the IRD than admit that they can’t get laid so we’ll cash in
    there, too.”

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  109. Griff (7,212 comments) says:

    Graham

    Have you no shame?

    Admitting to visiting magpies news aggregation site

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  110. graham (2,315 comments) says:

    Umm … purely in the interests of research, I assure you … I didn’t inhale … I did not have sex with that woman …

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  111. Steve (North Shore) (4,538 comments) says:

    “And any blokes who aren’t having sex would rather pay money to
    the IRD than admit that they can’t get laid so we’ll cash in
    there, too.”

    Liarbore will Tax themselves, but how will this work for the carpet munchers?

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  112. Steve (North Shore) (4,538 comments) says:

    Oh looks like the edit function is not working, never mind, I own my own shit

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  113. Griff (7,212 comments) says:

    Bible scholars have long wondered how old Isaac was when his father
    Abraham took him up to the mountain top to offer him as a sacrifice.
    Through careful study of the story as related in the Old Testament,
    based on the following facts:
    Issac was old enough to understand the ritual of sacrifice,
    Issac was old enough to carry wood for the fire to the top of the
    Mountain,
    Issac was old enough to notice that they were not bringing an animal
    For the sacrifice.
    Therefore Issac’s age, at this time, was greater than 8 years old.
    Scholars also conclude that he was younger than 12 years old as
    Supported by the following fact:
    If Issac had been older than twelve, he would have been a
    Teenager and it would not have been a sacrifice.

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  114. nasska (11,078 comments) says:

    “Oh Mary, you’re pregnant! That’s wonderful! And I’m not the father, but that’s okay, because God is? Awesome!”

    I love naivety plays.

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  115. Griff (7,212 comments) says:

    A seventy-five year old guy, his hair is completely white, marries a twenty-two year old girl, and she gets pregnant.
    Nine months later, he walks into the Maternity Ward. He says to the nurse, “Well, how’d I do?”
    The nurse says, “She had twins.”
    He says, “Heh, heh, heh … well, I guess that goes to show, that even if there’s snow on the roof, there can still be fire in the furnace.”
    She says, “Well, then you’d better change filters. Both of the babies are black.”

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  116. Rex Widerstrom (5,342 comments) says:

    Just to keep things “fair and balanced” (hey, if it’s good enough for Fox News to claim to be…)

    A man is taking a walk in Central Park in New York. Suddenly he sees a little girl being attacked by a pit bull dog . He runs over and starts fighting with the dog. He succeeds in killing the dog and saving the girl’s life.

    A policeman who was watching the scene walks over and says: “You are a hero, tomorrow you can read it in all the newspapers: ‘Brave New Yorker saves the life of little girl’.”

    The man says: – “But I am not a New Yorker!”

    “Oh, then it will say in newspapers in the morning: ‘Brave American saves life of little girl’,” the policeman answers.

    “But I am not an American!” says the man.

    “Oh, what are you then?” asks the cop.

    The man replies “I am an Arab!”

    The next day the newspapers reads: “Islamic extremist kills innocent American dog”.

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  117. Griff (7,212 comments) says:

    An indian walked into a bar, he was carying a bucket of shit in one hand, a rifle and a cat in the other. he sits and orders a drink,

    Drinks it, throws the bucket of shit in the air and shoots it, then bites the head off the cat, the bar tender said what are you

    doin and the Indian said, “ME WANNA BE LIKE WHITE MAN SHOOT SHIT AND EAT PUSSSY”!

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  118. nasska (11,078 comments) says:

    Little Johnny is in school and it is near Christmas time so the kids are giving presents to the teacher.

    Little Ross stands up to give his present. The teacher knows his parents are chocolatiers. She takes the wrapped present and says, “This is a box of chocolates isn’t it?”. Ross says, “Yes miss how did you guess?” and she replies, “It was just a random guess Ross thank you.”

    Little Jenny stands up and the teacher knows her parents work at the local bakery. She takes the present and says, “This is a cake in a tin isn’t it?” Jenny says, “Yes miss how did you guess?” and she again replies, “It was just a random guess Jenny thank you.”

    Little Johnny stands up and gives his present to the teacher. She knows his parents work at the brewery. She sees that the present is leaking so she takes a sip and says, “This is a can of Newcastle Brown Ale isn’t it?” Little Johnny shakes his head. She takes another sip. “Right this is a bottle of Red Wine then?” Again, Johnny shakes his head. She eventually gives in and says, “Ok Johnny I give in what is it?”

    And through his wide smile Johnny says, “A puppy miss!”

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