General Debate 1 December 2012

December 1st, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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109 Responses to “General Debate 1 December 2012”

  1. Viking2 (11,368 comments) says:

    Ah ,Yes , well.
    Suns up.

    http://screencast.com/t/B0Sip8DT

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  2. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    How to perpetuate war:

    Israel approved the construction of 3,000 homes in Jewish settlements in the West Bank and east Jerusalem, a government official said.

    Dumb.

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  3. Viking2 (11,368 comments) says:

    Its the Sabbath (isn’t it). We don’t need all this religious,peaceful coexistence shit today thanks.

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  4. Keeping Stock (10,267 comments) says:

    So; Sue Moroney gets all huffy about a so-called “sexist” advertisement in a law publication, but has been noticeably silent about Dr Judy McGregor’s “queen” comment at the Labour Party conference.

    Leaving apart the fact that Dr McGregor is one of the most senior staff members of the Human Rights Commission (appointed under the Clark administration), it seems that Labour is cherry-picking the things that they get offended about. The sight of Trevor Mallard, one of Parliament’s worst-behaved MP’s over a long period claiming offence at Paula Bennett’s comment on Thursday was rather like watching a vegetarian licking their lips after eating a juicy fillet steak.

    Pardon me Ms Moroney, but your double standard is showing…

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/but-what-about-judy.html

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  5. Keeping Stock (10,267 comments) says:

    Yeah you guys; make love, not war :D

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  6. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Not wanting to pick on you KS, but give us a few examples of offensive behaviour by politicians of your side.

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  7. Viking2 (11,368 comments) says:

    http://video.theaustralian.com.au/2311259140/US-deploys-carrier-to-tense-Persian-Gulf

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  8. Viking2 (11,368 comments) says:

    mikenmild (5,761) Says:
    December 1st, 2012 at 8:27 am

    Not wanting to pick on you KS, but give us a few examples of offensive behaviour by politicians of your side.
    ——————————————-

    Our side are way too much respesctful to behave like that. :lol: :roll:

    However in your case we could with provocation make an exception. 8O

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  9. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Israel’s democracy exposed:

    http://www.whoprofits.org/content/supreme-court-hearing-petition-against-israeli-anti-boycott-law-december-5th-2012

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  10. Grendel (993 comments) says:

    the difference milky is that ‘our side’ dont go around being offended by everything and then doing the same things but worse.

    eg, labour get huffy about gay shirts, one of their people makes tinkerbell comments or refers to queens in a negative way.

    labour gets all up in arms about jacinda being called sweetie, and then calls paula bennet bitchy.

    the supporters of the left are the same, most of us who are not left (so have a clue), are not offended by any of the words, just exasperated by the double standard of the media who play up the ‘outraged offence’ felt by the poor luvvies of the left, but completely ignore their transgressions.

    either its all just words (which it is) and no one should be offended, or every instance is worthy of front page news and facebook pages decrying it, not just the things that upset the fragile ones in labour and the greens.

    but you knew that and as usual are just trolling your typical labour and greens good, everyone else bad trope.

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  11. Pete George (23,436 comments) says:

    KS one war continues – The Standard versus the MSM.

    Anyone who is familiar with TS will know that if you refer to ‘The Standard’ you’re likely to get a strern lecture about machines, or banishment. Someone got dumped on this morning. But The Standard frequently does what they frown upon (that’s called hypocrisy) as detailed here – ‘The Standard’ and ‘the MSM’.

    Pots and kettles. And the chief pot is usually good for a chuckle . Guess who said “You really are a authoritarian loving dork aren’t you….”

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  12. Viking2 (11,368 comments) says:

    Pete, who other than you, and the fanatics at the Stranded, give a fuck about the Stranded?

    Doesn’t the sun ever shine where you live?

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  13. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Mahary would have to grade himself a ‘fail’ on this effort surely? Not a good look for him and no positive press for Massey University either.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10851104

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  14. Pete George (23,436 comments) says:

    V2 – quite a few people here take an interest in The Standard. It’s the biggest and most active left wing blog. There’s a lot of interesting stuff going on there.

    One fascinating ongoing discussion is between the Jackal (who some here will remember) desperately defending David Shearer against overwhelming criticism. He said…

    Perhaps they might like to come to your defense Colonial Viper, and provide some evidence that David Shearer is not a match for John Key… Although I somehow doubt this will occur, basically because despite their criticism of Shearer, they all know I’m right.

    It would however be amusing to see the left wing commentators you’ve named trying to support the National party leader in a comparison test. Just to conclude; compared to Key, David Shearer is far more linguistically skilled etc and will make a far better PM than the deluded investment banker ever could.

    And…

    My opinion is based on what I observe and wanting what’s best for New Zealand, nothing more.

    If you say that I’m wrong in my prediction that Shearer is very likely to trounce Key in the lead up to the next election, at least have the courtesy to tell me why?

    He’s being told why.

    One strong fear expressed often at The Standard is that Shearer will be demolished by Key on election debates. Absent any miracle transformations that’s a very valid fear.

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  15. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    Sneakiness runs in the family: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/chelsea-clinton-collecting-thank-you-notes-my-dad-and-email-addresses-mom

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  16. Keeping Stock (10,267 comments) says:

    I’m not sure I take your point mikenmild. What seems to be happening is that EVERY indiscretion by Key, Bennett and co demands editorials, front-page stories and wall-to-wall television and radio coverage. But when an avowed leftie from the Human Rights Commission (which is supposed to prevent discrimination against minorities, including on the grounds of sexual orientation) makes a blatantly offensive remark towards an openly gay MP and Minister, the media silence is deafening. And and reputation that the HRC might still have evapourates if its staff can prevent discrimination by day then joke about it by night.

    Judy McGregor should resign, or at the very least issue a written and public apology to Christopher Finlayson. The president and leader of the the Labour Party should also apologise, given that the offending comment was made at THEIR conference, in front of a large Labour banner. So should every Labour MP in attendance, especially those who are so quick to take offence at things that the Right say, like Mallard and Moroney. Their behaviour shows a level of utter hypocrisy.

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  17. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Obama gets his back on Donald Trump. A nice roast and credit to Obama’s speech writers

    Donald Trump in perspective

    You don’t have to be an Obama fan to appreciate this

    http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/obama-watch-1/donald-trump-in-perspective.html

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  18. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Grendel
    It’s not trolling.
    I’m genuinely interested in what people find offensive, from nude running to rowdy antics in the debating chamber. For example, Mallard gets a lot of stick here for his parliamentary behaviour, which is poor to say the very least, but for every Mallard there is a Henare. We can switch it around too, I could give examples name by name of offensive stuff from Labour MPs and I am sure you could match them with similar examples from National.
    The other part of your comment was about people looking to take offence. I take your point, but would enlarge on it if I may. People from different perspectives find different things to be outrageous or even offensive. Did many here find Harawira’s “white mo-fos” to be just words? Lots of people were offended, some of them genuinely. None of this is one-sided.

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  19. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    I agree with V2: The sub-Standard, run by the “delicate” tyrant with a girly name, Lynn Prentice, is a horrible place to be avoided at all costs.

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  20. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    KS
    I agree – someone who portraying herself as an exemplar of how to respect human rights one should resign when caught making slurs about another person’s sexual orientation.

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  21. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    War of words while the anti-American President does bugger all: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/30/democrats-playing-chicken-in-fiscal-talks-as-tax-hikes-loom-for-all-says-gop/

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  22. Elaycee (4,356 comments) says:

    Viking2:

    Pete, who other than you, and the fanatics at the Stranded, give a fuck about the Stranded?
    Doesn’t the sun ever shine where you live?

    Touche. If I wanted a running commentary on what’s happening over at the nasty party, I’d look. Then I’d head off for a long session with an Optrex bath and a long look at the bottom of a nice glass of pinot.

    Pete – some things are best kept to yourself.

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  23. flipper (3,950 comments) says:

    Chrissy Wussie and Lucie….

    Go read Chaim Weitzmann’s autobiography. It will help you understand that you are just spouting left wing-sixth world envy and C R A P. Until then shut up.

    Keeping….

    Excellent.
    McGregoir is a failed ex greenfax hack with a phud in media studies. It (McGregor) obviously applies the same greenfax standards to its tasks with the HRC.

    And then there is the question of McGregor’s presence as a speaker to the Labour conference. The screams (primal bellows?) of rage from Rennie’s dinosaur SSC are deafening. But then, of course, H2 might return …..

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  24. Keeping Stock (10,267 comments) says:

    Credit to you for saying so mikenmild. I doubt that we’d get such a response from Mallard or Moroney, and that more than anything illustrates who dysfunctional Labour has become.

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  25. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    flipper
    Do you think Chaim Weizmann would be happy with the progress the Zionist movement has made?

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  26. Keeping Stock (10,267 comments) says:

    @ flipper – agree wholeheartedly. The romantic notion of a politically neutral public service went out the window during the Clark years with appointments of the likes of Dr McGregor, Joris de Bres and Howard Broad. And perhaps Dr McGregor is looking to follow Rajen Prasad’s career move from the HRC to a high placing on the Labour Party list :P

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  27. graham (2,332 comments) says:

    Elaycee: +1

    The Standard really is a depressing little corner of the Internet – frequented by people who come across as very bitter, depressed individuals who probably don’t get invited to parties because people don’t want to suffer through their nasally whining about the unfairness of it all.

    It is best avoided, unless you are considering suicide and want some final push to tip you over the edge.

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  28. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    KS
    You are making my point as well – you keep imagining that only one party is capable of dysfunction or idiocy.

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  29. kowtow (8,186 comments) says:

    KS

    Make love ,not war. The mantra of the dead beat west.
    Make babies for war. The mantra of the Muslim world that is slowly but surely on the rise, while we handwring over “equality” and human rights.

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  30. OneTrack (2,981 comments) says:

    It’s ok when then the left does it. ANYTHING is apparently justified for the cause. Nobody is really surprised by this any more, are they?

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  31. Pete George (23,436 comments) says:

    Elaycee – you don’t have to read what I post. I manage to ignore a lot of stuff here (most) that doesn’t interest me without griping about it. That’s what most people do.

    Social media runs across many forums with a lot of crossover and interlinking. That’s one of the strengths of it.

    If no one discussed or linked to anything that one person might be snooty nosed about then blogs wouldn’t exist.

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  32. OneTrack (2,981 comments) says:

    “mikenmild (5,766) Says:
    December 1st, 2012 at 9:35 am
    KS
    You are making my point as well – you keep imagining that only one party is capable of dysfunction or idiocy.”

    But Labour have turned that sort of thing into an art form. But it wouldn’t be half as bad though if the MSM weren’t so complicit in hiding the hijinks though.

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  33. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    KS – there you go again, imagining that it was only the last government that made political appointments, etc.

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  34. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    So I was challenged here yesterday on my statement about our National governments propensity to cavort with dictators, with particular reference to the disgraceful behaviour of Don McKinnon – and I still feel unsettled every time I arrive in Don McKinnon Drive in Albany!

    This article, written by Selwyn Manning, gives a good summary of the facts justifying why I hold this view. If I have time I would like to delve more into National and its support of tyrants through the decades, and how it gives the lie to the constant slurs of right wing fascists accusing others of doing what they themselves excelled at – classic mendacious deflection.

    http://etan.org/et2002c/september/15-21/18nz.htm

    And let’s not even get into Keith Holyoake joining us into the immoral Vietnam adventure – how many millions of Vietnamese and Cambodians and Laotians did we conspire to murder at the behest of the US?

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  35. RF (1,370 comments) says:

    Wellington turning on another fine day. Floating hotels in the harbour bursting with tourist $$$$. Thanks to the Hobbit and other tourist initiatives made possible by our Govt. Not a nasty troll or Hobbit Hater in sight .. Labour must be having a day off to lick its wounds.

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  36. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Not a…Hobbit Hater in sight

    Grant Robertson and Annette King away for the weekend are they?

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  37. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    Bit of a can of worms you’re opening there Luc.

    The 20th century was, after all, notable mostly for its left-wing torture-genocide regimes, and also for the way Western leftist elites pandered to the perpetrators of this atrocities.

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  38. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    flipper (1,140) Says:
    December 1st, 2012 at 9:27 am

    Chrissy Wussie and Lucie….

    Go read Chaim Weitzmann’s autobiography. It will help you understand that you are just spouting left wing-sixth world envy and C R A P. Until then shut up.,

    I prefer the independent research of professional historians, thanks old son. You should try it. Just click on my name and note the reading list.

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  39. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yes RF, if the government hadn’t sold some employment law to Hollywood those cruise ships would have turned around and gone somewhere else.

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  40. flipper (3,950 comments) says:

    Miken….
    I do not knoiw. But I suspect Weitzmann would have:

    a, Worried over a future Iran/Hamas/Grand Mufti generated holocaust,
    b. Had sympathy for the thousands of Palestinian souls manipulated by the Grand Mufti(s) and followers in the past 60 years,
    c. Worried over the emergence of widespread left wing fascism that bears a horrible resemblance to that of Hitler, Himmler, Goering (and Stalin, let us not forget) et al, and
    d. Fought tooth and nail to preserve the state he fought tooth and nail (well, not quite) to create. :)

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  41. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    There I was thinking that Weizmann worked quite hard with Faisal etc and was appalled by the Jewish terrorist campaign against the British in the 40s.
    Perhaps Weizmann would reflect on the possibilities of a two-state solution and how that might be legitimately achieved.

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  42. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    In New Zealand, I grew up with National mainly in power. How a Labour government would have reacted would not, I suggest, have differed greatly, which makes nonsense, wat dabney, of what is essentially your filtered view of history.

    But Don McKinnon’s (in)actions gave rise to particular distaste. His appointment to the Commonwealth said much about how power imbalances are perpetuated.

    By the way, I was reminded of this when my laptop opened in Al Jazeera live feed and David Frost was interviewing Hose Ramos-Horta. You guys should look it up.

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  43. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Luc
    Re McKinnon, Timor and Indonesia, I don’t think you should make the mistake of thinking this was the work of one NZ foreign minister or of one party. No New Zealand government supported an independent East Timor until the very end of the 1990s. Our policy maybe was not quite as shameful as Australia’s, but it was driven by our non-political (!) foreign affairs officials and endorsed by all their political masters of whatever hue.

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  44. RF (1,370 comments) says:

    Mikenmild. 9.52am. As long as the tourist $$$ stays in NZ we all get a slice of the action.

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  45. Elaycee (4,356 comments) says:

    Pete George:

    :Elaycee – you don’t have to read what I post.

    Fair enough – I’ll bear that in mind. You post prolifically here on DPF’s blog. I can understand why you would recite the views of Peter Dunne et al – because of your status as a political candidate and the fact that Kiwiblog is a high volume site. But this is DPF’s blog and I come here as a guest because I’m generally aligned with the views posted. I enjoy the diverse views and respect well considered opinion. But if I want to read the jaundiced views from those who inhabit the Stranded, I can go there myself – I don’t need a self appointed class monitor deciding what is considered ‘worthy’ of a cut and paste from the Stranded being repeated here. If it was worthy of repeating here, I’m sure DPF would do so.

    Just saying.

    But you’re right – I don’t have to read your comments. I already use RIP but I didn’t think I’d ever contemplate adding your name to it. :(

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  46. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Re Chaim Weizmann:

    26 January 1919

    Lord Curzon to Lord Balfour

    I feel tolerably sure that while Weizmann may say one thing to you, or while you may mean one thing by a national home, he is out for something quite different. He contemplates a Jewish State, a Jewish Nation, a subordinate nation of Arabs etc. ruled by Jews; the Jews in possession of the fat of the land, and directing the Administration…he is trying to effect this behind the screen and under the shelter of British trusteeship

    Looks to me like Lord Curzon was spot on! You?

    More Bad News for Israel (2006) (p16)

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  47. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Flapper, how is expanding Israeli settlements on occupied land not provocative?

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  48. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    By “filtered” Luc means “inconvenient.”

    The 20th Century will go down in all of history as the time when leftists – Communists, National Socialists etc – gained the power over others they all crave. The time when people suffered and died by the tens of millions in the depths of depravity.

    The time when leftists in the democracies – people like Luc, whose vanity makes them so vulnerable – were groomed then played like a fiddle by the dictators.

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  49. Pete George (23,436 comments) says:

    Elaycee – many more people seem to be interested in links than complain about them.

    Do you complain when DPF comments on and links to TS and other blogs? Yes, it is his blog. If he complains to me I’ll respect that.

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  50. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    mm

    I did say that our policies were similar regardless of the party in power – that was part of my point about the ridiculous assertions that somehow I (supposedly as a ‘leftie’) am a supporter of the world’s worst human rights abusers when that honour belongs to people like Don McKinnon.

    Policy is one thing; to act as McKinnon did, blithely ignoring Indonesian atrocities, even if he was just our Johnny on-the-spot, is hard to forgive or forget.

    I’m fully aware of the debate between expediency and advocacy, and I plump for the latter, myself.

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  51. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Scott Chris

    Didn’t you watch Michael Oren at the UN yesterday. They have deeds to the land predating the written word!

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  52. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    how is expanding Israeli settlements on occupied land not provocative

    By “occupied land” you mean territory won by the Israelis in combat after they were attacked in attempted wars of annihilation? That land?

    Arguably it is not “occupied land”, is it: it is Israeli territory.

    Or are they just supposed to give it back because, er, um…

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  53. Pete George (23,436 comments) says:

    Oh, and Elaycee, isn’t “I don’t need a self appointed class monitor deciding what is considered ‘worthy’” a bit ironic?

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  54. flipper (3,950 comments) says:

    Miken…
    Yes Miken, Weitzmann’s first objective was always the peaceful return (albeit after 3000 years) of the Jewish State – a state that lived and worked in full, peaceful cooperation with all its neighbours. But that aim never aided the Grand Mufti(s) objectives , hence the past 60 odd years of conflict in which the “palestinians” (exactly, who are they?) have been used by Islam (As represented by the fascist mullahs) as pawns.

    And then there were the conflicting geopolitical interests (from Nasser to Nicki Krus to Eden to Saddam to Assad et al) arising from the cold war …… interests that are now the focus of Russia (Obamination, please note… or is it part of your plea to Putin for flexibility?) in respect of Iran and Syria to name just two renegade (?) states.

    Lucie ….
    You bore me by continuing to spout garbage.

    Go back to sleep … it might help you.

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  55. Elaycee (4,356 comments) says:

    Pete:

    Do you complain when DPF comments on and links to TS and other blogs? Yes, it is his blog. If he complains to me I’ll respect that.

    Do I complain? Not at all. But was your 8.39 really important / relevant / necessary? Apart from a link to a story on your own blog (and I’m not accusing you of link whoring), there is nothing new / nothing we don’t already know. If anyone is really interested in the stuff posted at the Stranded, I’m sure they can click on the link to the left and read it for themselves.

    And now you mention it, I doubt too many people on KB are really that fussed because you’ve had a spat with the moderator at the Stranded because of something you’ve said or implied or not said…. and I doubt too many really need to hear about your spat over and over and over….

    Just saying.

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  56. Reid (16,227 comments) says:

    I’ve never understood why people let politics influence their thinking on any geopolitical analysis. “Geopolitics” being defined as “anything a foreign country does either internally or as power projection onto another nation.” It’s simply crazy to analyse a factual action by an external entity along the lines of: “that looks like a good lefty human wights move” or “that looks like a good free-market oriented/democratic move.”

    Value judgements are irrelevant in geopolitics. The only thing that’s important is: what effect will the move have on the arena(s) it effects? That’s the only legitimate question. Anything else is completely and utterly irrelevant.

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  57. Elaycee (4,356 comments) says:

    @Pete: Are you auditioning for the role as the new PhilU?

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  58. Fletch (6,256 comments) says:

    Re: “Palestine” …

    1. How can a place with no elected officials be considered a state?

    Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority, last won an election in 2005. His term ended in 2009. The Palestinian Legislative Council was last elected in 2006. Much of the Palestinian Authority is run by Prime Minister Salam Fayyad who has never been elected to anything.

    The Palestinian Authority has refused to call elections, but found the time to put forward statehood bids. Shouldn’t there be an election before a statehood bid?

    2. How can Palestine be a state if it’s actually two mutually hostile states run by two different governments?

    The West Bank is governed by the Palestinian Authority. Gaza is run by Hamas. Each have their appointed politicians, militias and officials. Each is a mini-state. Despite several unity attempts, both remain divided between two mutually hostile armed camps, which are unable to agree on elections.

    Shouldn’t there at least be a single Palestinian government that runs both the West Bank and Gaza as a prerequisite for statehood?

    3. How can a place that is almost entirely subsidized by foreign aid qualify for statehood?

    The Palestinian Authority lives off American, European and Middle Eastern aid, including aid directed through the UN and a variety of international organizations. It hardly has anything resembling an economy and its domestic businesses are monopolies controlled by Palestinian Authority leaders.

    Shouldn’t the Palestinian Authority become self-sustaining before it becomes recognized as a state?

    4. How can a place that has made no progress in 20 years qualify for statehood?

    The Palestinian Authority has been around for nearly two decades. And two decades later it is not only struggling with the same problems of violence and corruption, but it has actually gone backward in many ways. The Palestinian Authority no longer even has elections or a united territory?

    Should a place that has actually gotten worse during its period of autonomy really become a state?

    http://frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/4-questions-for-anyone-who-supports-a-palestinian-state/#.ULjFNu67AhR.twitter

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  59. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    oops, apologies…”More Bad News From Israel”.

    The book is based on research by Glasgow University Media Group and was a study of bias, whether deliberate or otherwise, in the British media as regards the Israel/Palestine issue.

    It opens with a 160 page chapter “Histories of the Conflict” that is a very useful summary of salient facts, and that it may disabuse people like poor flipper of their most cherished myths is not reason enough to discard this prestigious work.

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  60. Fletch (6,256 comments) says:

    ps, what happened when Israel gave back the “occupied land” that is Gaza? Uprooting 8000 or so of their own Israeli citizens and leaving glasshouses (good for the economy of whomever was taking over the land). The glasshouses were smashed, rocket launchers set up and rockets fired into Israel.

    What do you think is going to happen if Israel goes back to it’s 1967 borders? The same thing.
    The “Palestinians” will only have better vantage points from which to fire missles.

    Look, this isn’t about occupancy of land. The Arabs don’t care about that. It’s a red herring.
    They only want to destroy Israel. You could give them everything they wanted and there still would not be peace until Israel is destroyed. End of story.

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  61. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @ Fletch

    1. How can a place with no elected officials be considered a state?

    Exhibit One: Israel in 1948. And it’s a silly question as dictatorships have a long and (dis)honourable history as recognised, sovereign states.

    2. How can Palestine be a state if it’s actually two mutually hostile states run by two different governments?

    Civil strife is not a disqualification for statehood. Many such states have existed temporarily. But in this particular case, anyway, ‘government’ is a misnomer. Hamas and the PLo are Chief Warders for the occupying power and the duplicitous west plays along with the ‘government’ charade.

    3. How can a place that is almost entirely subsidized by foreign aid qualify for statehood?

    Exhibit One: Israel pre and post independence. And Haiti is a state that, like many countries raped by the West for centuries, depends greatly on foreign aid. The dependence on aid in Palestine is a factor of occupation, not statehood.

    4. How can a place that has made no progress in 20 years qualify for statehood?

    Lots of states would cease to exist on this qualifier! The US middle classes, for example?

    Now then, the real question is, who invents these questions and why?

    Tel Aviv’s Department of Hasbara?

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  62. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    A Sheep No More

    End The Fed: Chicago Federal Reserve Bank President Just Announced QE 4

    “Goldman Sachs expects, next month, for the Fed to come out of their policy meeting announcing QE4. It will be a purchase of $45 billion each month in Treasuries. This number will be in addition to the already existing QE3, which is $40 billion per month in mortgage-backed security debt.

    But in a sense, Eric, QE4 is going
    to be a replacement for Operation Twist. Operation Twist was designed to push down the long end of the curve in order to keep interest rates artificially low….

    Chicago Federal Reserve Bank President Charles Evans, who rotates into a voting seat on the Fed’s policy-setting panel in January, also said the Fed should step up its program of quantitative easing in the new year to keep its overall level of asset purchases at $85 billion a month for most, if not all, of 2013.

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=309354382511342&set=a.225932444186870.49466.225921714187943&type=1

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  63. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Monsanto Cancer Milk: FOX NEWS Kills Story and Fires Reporters!

    FOX NEWS Reporters (Reporters Steve Wilson & Jane Akre) uncover that most of the Milk in the USA, and across some parts of the world is unfit to drink due to Monsanto Corporation’s POSILAC®, which has been proven to be a cancer-causing growth hormone (known in short as “BGH” “BST” or “rBGH”), but they were fired for trying to tell people the truth.

    http://www.secretsofthefed.com/monsanto-cancer-milk-fox-news-kills-story-and-fires-reporters/

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  64. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Went and saw the new James Bond last night, not earth shattering but not too shabby. the ending suited me, looking forward to the next one now

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  65. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @ Fletch

    In fact, Palestinian authorities had great hopes for the glasshouse industry:

    Palestinians sign export deal for Gaza greenhouse produce
    PalTrade, the Palestinian company in charge of running the greenhouses that the Palestinians will inherit from Gaza evacuees, recently signed its first export agreement for the produce slated to be grown there.
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/616294.html

    But…

    http://thehasbarabuster.blogspot.co.nz/2009/12/gaza-greenhouse-effect.html

    About half the greenhouses in the Israeli settlements in Gaza have already been dismantled by their owners, who have given up waiting to see if the government was going to come up with extra payment as an inducement to leave them behind, say senior officials working on the coordination of this summer’s Israeli pullout from Gaza.(…)

    Of the roughly 1,000 acres of agricultural land that were under greenhouses in the 21 Israeli settlements in Gaza, only 500 acres remain – creating significant doubts that the greenhouses could be handed over to the Palestinians as “a living business,” the goal cited by the Israeli coordinator of the pullout, Eival Giladi.

    and

    Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.(…)

    Palestinian police stood by helplessly Tuesday as looters carted off materials from greenhouses in several settlements, and commanders complained they did not have enough manpower to protect the prized assets. In some instances, there was no security and in others, police even joined the looters, witnesses said.

    “We need at least another 70 soldiers. This is just a joke,” said Taysir Haddad, one of 22 security guards assigned to Neve Dekalim, formerly the largest Jewish settlement in Gaza. “We’ve tried to stop as many people as we can, but they’re like locusts.”

    As can be seen, the theft was carried out by individuals, and in no way was it encouraged by the Palestinian Authority. Quite on the contrary, there was a conscious PA effort to prevent the lootings, which was however hindered by lack of resources.

    Read the whole link and get the truth.

    Notice that, unlike the civilised West, the looters were not shot on sight.

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  66. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @ Fletch

    Look, this isn’t about occupancy of land. The Arabs don’t care about that. It’s a red herring

    531 villages destroyed and 750,000 expelled 1947-1949, most with roots in the land going back centuries to millenia.

    What Fletch really means is his white sepremacists take precedence over the local brown natives.

    Racism wrapped up in divine myth.

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  67. Reid (16,227 comments) says:

    “Goldman Sachs expects, next month, for the Fed to come out of their policy meeting announcing QE4. It will be a purchase of $45 billion each month in Treasuries. This number will be in addition to the already existing QE3, which is $40 billion per month in mortgage-backed security debt.

    Once again socialising the losses and privatising the profits, while the US sheeple bleat away and carry on their daily lives as if they aren’t being screwed by their own politicians, yet again.

    Gee, you’da thunk the media would have said something by now wouldn’t you. Oh wait, that’s right. Guess who owns them?

    But that’s OK, isn’t it. Nothing’s going on, at all. Thinking that it is is complete loony-tune territory, it simply has to be, because the world doesn’t work like that. So there. If something really was going on, someone would definitely have said something by now.

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  68. wat dabney (3,709 comments) says:

    Bit tricky for the leftists to claim that Israel is just a racist plot when it was created at the behest of one of their favourite institutions, the United Nations. But don’t let that stop you trying, Luc. When you’ve no valid argument, when you’re just sounding confused and contradictory, just play the race card eh?

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  69. Fletch (6,256 comments) says:

    531 villages destroyed and 750,000 expelled 1947-1949, most with roots in the land going back centuries to millenia.

    Luc that is complete b/s
    There is no such thing as “Palestinian” people. The Romans made up the word.
    It is Israel that has roots going back centuries.

    Israel has been a people since Abraham. You only have to go back and look at ancient maps to see this is true.
    eg, below is a link to a map from 1926 showing different eras of the Middle East area. Look in the corners as to how the area looked in the time of Soloman and David (1025-953B.C) and before that ‘Palestine’ (top right) in the time of the Judges (953-722 B.C) – you’ll see it’s all Israel and Judah.

    http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/ancient_palestine_ref_1926.jpg

    Oh, and FYI – it was the Arab leaders that told their people to move off the land and out of the way so their armies could march through on the way to fight the Jews, with the understanding that they’d all move back when Israel was defeated, only that never happened.

    And you fail to mention that just as many or more Jews were expelled from different countries around the world before moving back to Israel.

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  70. Paulus (2,602 comments) says:

    TOP NEWS

    Japan Airlines to serve KFC on flights over Christmas break.

    Wow – Not election time for Lying Brown then as there would not be enough available for JAL.

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  71. Lance (2,628 comments) says:

    Why is Luc so bloody obsessed with vilifying and finding or (usually) inventing negative reports about Israel while the Islamic states around it can do no wrong?

    Seriously, it’s crossed the line from interest to some sort of disorder.

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  72. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @ Fletch

    Those maps are constructed from Biblical references. The Bible is not an historical document. In fact, there is not one scrap of historical accuracy in a book written for purposes other than such accuracy.

    As for your constant allegations of there being no Palestinian people, well, read what one Zionist soldier, and later, Knesset member, who actually fought them in 1948 says about that and yesterday’s vote in the UN:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/11/30/the-un-and-palestine/

    There is one particular aside in the article I would dispute with the author, and one must bear in mind that above all else, he remains a Zionist, but his eye-witness account surely trumps your fevered projections from Israel’s propaganda machine.

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  73. Fletch (6,256 comments) says:

    The Bible is not an historical document. In fact, there is not one scrap of historical accuracy in a book written for purposes other than such accuracy.

    Luc, you’re showing your ignorance. In fact, that is a ludicrous thing to even suggest.
    I’m afraid you’d be at odds with every reputable scholar on that. Even secular. Most agree that the Bible is the most historically correct document we have, backed up by archaeological evidence.

    Go away and do some study before coming here and making a complete fool of yourself.

    Every year the Bible is being proved more and more accurate, with regard to new archaeological findings on the peoples and cultures mentioned therein – proving they existed and that events mentioned also happened.

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  74. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Absolutely Fletch

    A strong case is the Hittites. They were said never to have existed. Archeology found their civilisation.

    Many other instances.

    And how does evolution tilt the Earth to change seasons. Secular scientists have no answer to this I have just found.

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  75. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Interesting case about pastors fighting the IRS unconstitutional rules of what pastors can preach from the pulpit

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  76. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @ Lance

    It’s less lonely for me here than it used to be, so times are changing. And the issue is rather topical at the moment!

    Your beef is with posters who post their racist rantings and expect a free ride. I stand with the Palestinian cause and ensuring the truth is out there is my small contribution to their struggle.

    I suspect you are in their camp and, like them, can produce only propaganda.

    Yesterday I quoted Chris Hitchens who wrote: “That which is asserted without evidence deserves to be dismissed without evidence.” I do my best to actually dismiss with evidence.

    One other factor, Lance, is that this is extremely good argumentation practice! I have learned a lot taking on some of the masters of argument here.

    Anyway, off for a time now – other things to do that will see me out of internet contact and into interacting with real people, not pseudonyms.

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  77. Reid (16,227 comments) says:

    Special Forces guy holds the enemy pinned down till an A-10 comes in and blasts em to smithereens. There’s a vid at the end of the slide show.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/mk-48-soldier-calls-in-a-10s-2012-11#the-soldier-service-unidentified-here-is-using-a-mk-48-to-suppress-the-enemy-located-about-50-100-meters-in-two-positions-off-to-his-right-and-left-1

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  78. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @ Fletch

    The Bible as an historical document?

    Okkaaay! The Earth made in six days then?

    When was that, again? 6342 years, 13 hrs, 23 mins, 15 secs and counting….ago?

    Excuse me whilst I guffaw off into the cleansing powers of daylight…

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  79. Fletch (6,256 comments) says:

    Luc,

    I’ll tell you what it isn’t: it isn’t one book; it’s a library of books containing history, poetry, law, prophecy and letters etc.
    Some books are not meant to be read literally, for example, the story of Jonah and the whale is pretty much understood by scholars to be a parable.

    Who knows what a “day” means in the story of Adam and Eve. In the end it really isn’t important. The Jews did have different sayings for describing something though that are endemic to them – eg, “forty days and nights” is supposed to mean, “in the time it took to do what had to be done”.

    If someone from the future looked at one of our books and saw the phrase “raining cats and dogs” mentioned in a serious non-fiction article, would they assume it was literally raining cats and dogs? I suppose they might. You have to look at these things in the context of the culture and the time.

    OK, I have to get to work…
    Laters..

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  80. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    Brazilian joy of life: http://lifestyle.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8573275/pageant-picks-brazils-best-posterior

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  81. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    Democracy Egyptian style: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_EGYPT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-11-30-06-08-15

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  82. Harriet (4,794 comments) says:

    AbDULL Luc#

    “….The Bible as an historical document?…..Okkaaay! The Earth made in six days then? …….When was that, again? 6342 years, 13 hrs, 23 mins, 15 secs and counting….ago……Excuse me whilst I guffaw off into the cleansing powers of daylight…”

    O’K then Abdul Luc – prove that ‘love’ exists!

    And if you can’t – then gays can’t get Married! :cool:

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  83. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    @Harriet

    Yup, these things are usually so simple to explain

    And you proved it

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  84. Viking2 (11,368 comments) says:

    Luc Hansen (4,526) Says:
    December 1st, 2012 at 11:51 am

    @ Lance

    It’s less lonely for me here than it used to be,.

    so that’s your problem. You are a social hermit looking for us all to tell you what a fine chappy you are, how intelligent you are, and how you are the whizz when it comes to the friendly people and the racists.

    Go see a shrink.

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  85. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Cashless society coming fast

    http://ackelandassociates.com/cash-transactions-banned-by-louisiana/

    And US takes away dollar bills

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  86. gopolks (52 comments) says:

    Very disappointed that the Left wing blogosphere, “The Standard” and “The Hand Mirror” are still ripping apart The Hobbit, why cant those on the left see the benefit for New Zealand, and have the courage to say, Helen Kelly and the Unions were wrong?

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  87. Reid (16,227 comments) says:

    This is pretty gay.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/parkinsons-sufferer-wins-six-figure-payout-from-glaxosmithkline-over-drug-that-turned-him-into-a-gay-sex-and-gambling-addict-8368600.html

    Within two years of beginning to take the drug the married father-of-two says he developed an uncontrollable passion for gay sex and gambling – at one point even selling his children’s toys to fund his addiction…

    In total Mr Jambert said he gambled away 82,000 euros, mostly through internet betting on horse races. He also said he engaged in frantic searches for gay sex.

    He started exhibiting himself on websites and arranging encounters, one of which he claimed resulted in him being raped.

    Goodness.

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  88. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8023948/Fears-as-armed-gang-targets-bars

    …and when they catch them only looking at couple years max in the slammer because our judiciary are lame hand wringing inept fools who are not doing their jobs properly.

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  89. Harriet (4,794 comments) says:

    DPF#

    Here IS one that will be of interest to you David!

    But not to the Teachers Union. :cool:

    http://www.essentialmums.co.nz/big-kids/tweens-to-teens/education/8023933/New-Zealand-ranked-8th-in-education-outcomes

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  90. Lance (2,628 comments) says:

    @Luc @ 11:56am

    Beware the assumptions of your argument.
    This is a touchy subject in Christendom but the bible clearly states in the original Hebrew text (well Aramaic but that’s splitting hairs) that the first day (day one) was not 24 hours long. It doesn’t say how long but it’s not 24hrs.
    The wrong word is used for the first day of the week (yom roshon or the ‘head day’) but yom echad (day one). Yom means period of time. The time period could be millions of years, who knows?

    There is a lifetime of deepness in the translation, transliteration and understanding of this masterpiece you so blithely and characteristicly dismiss as inaccurate in such a shallow manner.

    Think before you talk drivel next time.

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  91. Pete George (23,436 comments) says:

    Elaycee at 10:33 – that’s a pathetic attack, especially on top of you spending the morning griping and niggling at me, and all I was doing was responding with restraint. I could have highlighted more of what you’ve got wrong but decided not to escalate.

    What’s your real beef? It’s like politically motivated harrassment I’ve seen elsewhere. Are you speaking on DPF’s behalf? When I chatted with DPF last week he didn’t complain about what I do here, he was actually a little bit complimentary.

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  92. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    I hope when Sir Ian gets married in Wellington, next visit, my favourite sheep, Flossie, will get to catch his Bride/Grooms bouquet! :)

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  93. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Elaycee is obviously suffering from PMT Pete! :)

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  94. Scott Chris (6,036 comments) says:

    Speaking of naked joggers, here’s the funniest one in the world:

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  95. Elaycee (4,356 comments) says:

    Pete:

    It’s like politically motivated harrassment I’ve seen elsewhere.

    Whaaaaaat? You’ve missed the point entirely.

    Forget it. :(

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  96. Elaycee (4,356 comments) says:

    @Johnboy: You’re nearly right re your PMT comment – I am Partial to Malt Therapy.

    And for the record, Momma Bear handles the real deal very well, thanks. :D

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  97. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Oh dear

    Lance and Fletch are fundies…just like Hamas…almost makes me feel at home!

    Almost.

    @Viking2

    Poor chap. nothing of substance to contribute…oh well…personal abuse is better than nothing, I suppose…

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  98. Viking2 (11,368 comments) says:

    Amazing art.

    And not a bad looking pussy either.!

    http://screencast.com/t/FmlRd2qx4k

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  99. Griff (7,387 comments) says:

    This will cheer you up luc :wink:

    Hamas Threatens Israelis
    Militants within Hamas have said that if hundreds of Palestinian prisoners are not released by tomorrow, Israel will, “Bear all the consequences.” Translators say this is Arabic for, “We found more rocks.”

    Hamas on Rye
    Israel ‘s deputy prime minister on Saturday said Israel should assassinate Hamas‘ leadership, ignore the moderate Palestinian president and walk away from international peace efforts. Hamas leaders asked for a timeout until Israel and Palestine can get into some kind of counseling.
    They also requested Israel try to use’I’ sentences instead of’you’ sentences, such as “I don’t feel respected by those actions.” rather than “You are a bunch of sucide bombing assholes!”

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  100. chiz (1,132 comments) says:

    Hinamanu: And how does evolution tilt the Earth to change seasons. Secular scientists have no answer to this I have just found.

    The reason scientists don’t have an answer to this is that there isn’t one. Evolution is concerned with biology and has nothing to say about about the tilt of the earth. If you want an answer to that you should ask an astrogeologist.

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  101. Viking2 (11,368 comments) says:

    Fifty Shades of Grey – A husbands view

    The missus bought a Paperback
    …down Shepton, Saturday,
    I had a look inside her bag;
    T’was “Fifty Shades of Grey”.

    Well I just left her to it,
    And at ten I went of to bed.
    An hour later she appeared;
    The sight filled me with dread…..

    In her left she held a rope;
    And in her right a whip!
    She threw them down upon the floor,
    And then began to strip..

    Well fifty years or so ago;
    I might have had a peek;
    But Mabel hasn’t weathered well;
    She’s eighty four next week!!

    Watching Mabel bump and grind;
    Could not have been much grimmer..
    And things then went from bad to worse;
    She toppled off her Zimmer!

    She struggled back upon her feet;
    A couple minutes later;
    She put her teeth back in and said
    …..I am the dominator !!

    Now if you knew our Mabel,
    You’d see just why I spluttered,
    I’d spent two months in traction
    For the last complaint I’d uttered.

    She stood there nude and naked
    Bent forward just a bit
    I went to hold her, sensual like
    and stood on her left tit!

    Mabel screamed, her teeth shot out;
    My god what had I done!?
    She moaned and groaned then shouted out:
    “Step on the other one”!!

    Well readers, I can’t tell no more;
    About what occurred that day.
    Suffice to say my jet black hair,
    Turned fifty shades of Grey.. :

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  102. chiz (1,132 comments) says:

    Fletch: Every year the Bible is being proved more and more accurate, with regard to new archaeological findings on the peoples and cultures mentioned therein – proving they existed and that events mentioned also happened.

    And, yet, we have a rampant evidence that the Bible has been modified by scribes.

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  103. Griff (7,387 comments) says:

    Three men were discussing aging on the steps of the nursing home.

    “Sixty is the worst age to be,” said the 60-year-old. “You always feel like you have to pee. And most of the time, you stand at the toilet and nothing comes out!”

    “Ah, that’s nothin’,” said the 70-year-old. “When you’re seventy, you can’t take a crap anymore. You take laxatives, eat bran, you sit on the toilet all day and nothin’ comes out!”

    “Actually,” said the 80-year-old, “Eighty is the worst age of all.”

    “Do you have trouble peeing too?” asked the 60-year-old.

    “No…not really. I pee every morning at 6:00 am. I piss like a race horse; no problem at all.”

    “Do you have trouble taking a crap?” asked the 70-year-old.

    “Well, not really. I have a great bowel movement every morning at 6:30 am.”

    With great exasperation, the 60-year-old said, “Let me get this straight. You pee every morning at 6:00 am and take a crap every morning at 6:30. What’s so tough about being 80?”

    To which the 80-year-old replied, “I don’t wake up until 10:00 am.”

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  104. Griff (7,387 comments) says:

    The Labour Party is allowing former Member of Parliament John Tamihere to rejoin.

    The party’s national executive accepted his application today at a meeting in Wellington.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/tamihere-allowed-rejoin-labour-party-5253333

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  105. Viking2 (11,368 comments) says:

    A traveller through England on vacation lost his wallet and all of his identification.
    Cutting his trip short, he attempted to make his way home but was stopped by the Australian Customs Agents at the airport.

    “May I see your identification, please?” asked the agent. “I’m sorry, but I lost my wallet,” replied the bloke.
    “Sure mate, I hear that every day. No ID, no entry,” said the agent. “But I can prove I’m an Australian!” he exclaimed.
    “I have a picture of Bob Hawke tattooed on one side of my arse and Paul Keating on the other..”
    “This I gotta see, replied the agent. With that, the bloke dropped his strides and showed the agent his behind.
    “By hell, you’re right!” exclaimed the agent. “Have a safe trip back to Melbourne .” “Thanks!” he said.

    “But how did you know I was from Melbourne ?” The agent replied,
    “I recognized Gillard in the middle.”

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  106. Viking2 (11,368 comments) says:

    http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/ItXKGyO6cRA?rel=0

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  107. Viking2 (11,368 comments) says:

    For all you farmers out there

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  108. Lance (2,628 comments) says:

    Oh surprise
    Luc spouts forth drivel.
    Is then proven to be wrong

    Ad hominem time

    You are Reid behave the same. Slippery left dodgem tactics.

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  109. Pete George (23,436 comments) says:

    Very good win to England, decisive and in style. The ABs just weren’t up to it but it won’t do them any harm, had to lose some time.

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