General Debate 28 December 2012

December 28th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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31 Responses to “General Debate 28 December 2012”

  1. Longknives (4,742 comments) says:

    I just can’t help myself…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8123896/Iwi-leader-backs-theory-Maori-were-not-first-colonisers

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  2. Longknives (4,742 comments) says:

    And the results of this ‘survey’ are almost as dubious as jurors partying up with the defendant after a verdict….

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10856318

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  3. Komata (1,191 comments) says:

    Longknives: Thanks for the article. Denial of oral history comes under the category of ‘Political Expediency'; to acknowledge the facts would completely destroy the whole te ritei, and the ‘We’ve been here for a thousand years’ line that the polliticos peddle. It would also put a lot of academics in a very difficult position . . .

    FWIW, I had a long conversation with a respected (now deceased) Maori elder from the eastern BoP who was very adamant that Maori were NOT the first – at least not in his tribal area; he gave them the name ‘Minipeni’ (my phonetics). A discussion with a senior kuia from Poverty Bay also revealed essentially the same thing. All of which is terribly inconvenient, and vehemently denied by the young generation of Maori (especially those who are lecturers at certain universities) who choose to ignore that which is an ‘inconvenient’ truth. No doubt it will be suppressed (ie situation normal).

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  4. Paulus (2,627 comments) says:

    I see that Feral Herald is at it again – making up survey results to try and influence public opinion against the Government.
    “Ambrose” fact or fiction (I did not intend to listen in to Key and Banks – was a mistake – but I did sell it to the MSM and Winston) is irrelevant.

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  5. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    The Treaty claims do not derive from being here first – they derive from being here and in command of the place (being tangata whenua at the time) when Pakeha turned up.

    The only evidence of prior discovery being rat bones over 2000 years old, this does not imply settlement.

    Iwi stories about others being there first does not prove these earlier people not to be people of other iwi (other Maori).

    All peoples build myth into the story of the beginning – does anyone really believe there were giants on the Earth in Canaan before Herbrews arrived or that the people of the land at this later still really really tall even then. There are no bones of giants found anywhere.

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  6. peterwn (3,271 comments) says:

    See:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/8123876/Fears-for-safety-at-powerless-schools

    Select Committee submissions close 24 January 2013 and no doubt principals and others will be making submissions expressing concerns. It is a pity that the article did not indicate the status of the bill at the time, but then I suppose it would spoil a good story to say that it has yet to go to Select Committee rather than leaving the impression that it is a ‘fait accompli’.

    That part of the bill (clauses 27-28) would at first blush be inspired by wet wishy-washy educationalists. Coming to think of it, though, it makes sense initially to make the draft restrictions strict but then to ease them up if need be during the Select Committee process. However because this is a ‘portmanteau’ bill which also includes Partnership (Charter) School provisions, this is likely to take centre stage with other parts being virtually overlooked at submission time.

    One item highlighted for concern is a ban on ‘physical force’. At first glance this appears to over-ride s 48 of the Crimes Act (self defence or defence of others). IMO nothing should over-ride that and the clause should be amended to clarify that. If a teacher believes a pupil has a knife or gun, in defence of staff and other pupils he or she should be able to use reasonable force to take it.

    The Bill is here:
    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/government/2012/0077/latest/DLM4807405.html

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  7. magsta (393 comments) says:

    There’s always been debate and doubt about f Holdaway’s rat bones. (Chance visit of humans & rats, contaminated material?)
    To date, the best supported evidence of first human settlement of NZ is between 1280-1300.
    http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/science/plants-animals-fungi/ecosystems/prehistoric-settlement/human-arrival.

    maggy wassilieff

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  8. Sofia (857 comments) says:

    The Vatican’s opposition to gay marriage has been falling largely on deaf ears. In addition to the U.S. election gains, the Constitutional Court in largely Roman Catholic Spain upheld the law legalizing gay marriage last month. Earlier this month, the British government announced it will introduce a bill next year legalizing gay marriage, though it would ban the Church of England from conducting same-sex ceremonies
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/pope-anti-gay-speech_n_2344870.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

    Why will the Church of England be banned from conducting gay marriages?
    The New Zealand Presbyterian Church has gay clergy, as do other faiths – should they be disinclined to conduct services for those they empathise with?

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  9. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    magsta, I was not suggesting a prior settlement, only that an older age for rat bones may have indicated a prior discovery and a later belated settlment. The evidence that the rat bones are not as old as first thought dismisses even that possibility.

    That later dating is indicative of the latest evidence across the region – showing post 1000CE settlement for French Polynesia and Hawaii.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/108/5/1815.full

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  10. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Sofia,

    The British government ban their church from having a Catholic monarch as head of their church – Jewish is fine, Moslem is fine, atheist no problem, a Catholic – hell no. Reason does not come into it, damned if the British government is going to have “their” state church marrying those people – when they won’t marry the Prince because of a prior divorce. PC human rights do not intrude on the Tory party at prayer.

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  11. kowtow (8,457 comments) says:

    What’s this “CE” shit ? It’s BC and AD.

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  12. flipper (4,058 comments) says:

    Opinion polls are wonderful, are they not?

    When one agrees, one can say: “see, I told you so”.
    When one disagrees, one can say: “They are just rubbish (or worse)”

    So in 2011 the Nats, that I proudly helped elect, got almost 49% oif the vote (an unprecedented MMP high). But the naysayers screamed: “They have no mandate.”

    Now, Granny Herald produces a poll this morning which says 74% (Yes, seventy four %) of New Zealanders say: “Enough is enough. Pay David Bain compensation for 13 years’ incarceration.”

    But silly crusher Collins disagrees. So does the porno Judge, and so do the numbskulls at Crown Law. They all disagree with an eminent, independent Jurist…..and five Privy Council Judges.

    To recap: Bain was found guilty and served 13 years in prison before his convictions were quashed by the Privy Council as being unsafe and “a substantial miscarriage of Justice”. The Crown Law Office ignored the Privy Council’s nudge and sent Bain to retrial- Not Guilty.

    Ergo, 13 years unjustified incarceration, says former and independent Canadian SC Justice (supported on points of NZ law by two (2) Auckland professors of law (Rishworth and Optican) Binnie Pay the man, says Binnie.

    Lordy. Shock and horror in the crusher’s office, in Mike Heron’s Crown Law office and in the corral of the Molesworth Street cowboys.

    One thing for sure about all, this: when the MSM faunally gets around to publishing Binnie’s report in full, and also publishes his full his response to the Porno Judge, the number in favour of compensation will rise to closer to 90%. There, will of course always be idiots like the revisionists, the re-litigators, the red necks, and the cult-like JFRB groups.

    Time to pay, Messrs W.English and J.Key. Oh, by the way. Crusher for Education! :)

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  13. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    kowtow, there are three ways of counting time according to those who claim to be the chosen of God.

    If one regards none as the chosen of God, it is not appropriate to use any of them – not the dating of Jews, Christians or Moslems.

    Besides Jews got the creation date wrong – confusing it with the founding of their calendar the same year that a city called Nippur was founded. And Christians cannot demonstrate the year that Jesus was born – but all agree it was not the year zero of the BC AD counting system.

    Why perpetuate the lie?

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  14. iMP (2,385 comments) says:

    I was interested in this: the Top 10 world books of all time.
    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2012/12/28/religion-is-dead-yeah-right/

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  15. Paulus (2,627 comments) says:

    Give David Bain $1 – that will position the settlement as “not proven”.

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  16. flipper (4,058 comments) says:

    But Paulus…
    You are simply saying what you beleve 13 years of your life are worth. :)

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  17. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    “All peoples build myth into the story of the beginning –”

    so its not true some Polynesian fisherman pulled the South Island out of the ocean with a rod?

    Well bugger me.

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  18. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    History to be repeated for Americans soon

    When the US set the military against veterans

    80 years ago – and no one noticed

    http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/government-corruption-1/when-the-us-set-the-military-against-veterans.html

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  19. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Reality Check: The Next Financial Crisis

    The calm before the storm?

    What’s the solution for excessive debt?

    First, realize that ALL debts get discharged eventually.

    Either their are paid off or they’re are written off.

    You can lend more money to the person, or bank or country in debt…or you can take your losses now.

    The government solution? Give the debtors, who can’t pay the debts they already have, more money.

    “Good money after bad.”

    Somehow this common sense saying is no longer in circulation. It should be brought back.

    A market on steroids

    http://www.realecontv.com/videos/capital-market-collapse/reality-check-the-next-financial-crisis.html

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  20. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Finally! The real cause of domestic violence has been revealed. Apparently, according to a catholic priest in Italy, its caused by women dressing provocatively and neglecting housework.

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  21. Kea (12,818 comments) says:

    Finally! The real cause of domestic violence has been revealed. Apparently, according to a catholic priest in Italy, its caused by women dressing provocatively and neglecting housework.

    At last the Catholics have caught up with what their Muslim, Taoist, Hindu, brothers have know for centuries !

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  22. eszett (2,408 comments) says:

    Finally! The real cause of domestic violence has been revealed. Apparently, according to a catholic priest in Italy, its caused by women dressing provocatively and neglecting housework.

    And not too mention the cause of earthquakes as well.

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  23. kowtow (8,457 comments) says:

    chiz has managed to get the anti Catholic/anti free speech brigade on side. One silly Italian priest says something mildly controversial and it becomes world news for the wanker MSM and their sheeple followers.
    At least the priest won’t get a criminal conviction for airing what are clearly his personal views (as opposed to official Church teaching) unlike this atheist in England who is on trial for tearing up some paper……..

    why isn’t this world news,it’s far more significant,you anti Catholic tossers should be more concerned about this man’s freedoms than what some idiot Eyetie has to say in the privacy of his church.

    But then the KB anti Catholics/leftists will be on the side of the oppressors as they don’t believe in free speech.Only in what is “correct”.

    http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/story-17629232-detail/story.html

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  24. Kea (12,818 comments) says:

    And not too mention the cause of earthquakes as well.

    Actually that was caused by giving women the vote. A very silly idea to start with and clearly the work of Satan. Have you ever tried to have a political debate with a woman… ;)

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  25. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    It’s beyond the pale to use the term “sheeple” when Johnboy isn’t here to defend himself.

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  26. Kea (12,818 comments) says:

    I wonder if Johnboy has run off to some survivalist retreat to await doomsday and the great global flood, as prophesied by the cult leader Griff. :)

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  27. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    :)

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  28. Don the Kiwi (1,750 comments) says:

    kowtow.
    4.58 pm.

    Couldn’t agree with you more. These bunch of wankers like shiz and co. cherry pick their criticisms – wouldn’t dream of quoting the full story, which made it quite clear the position of the Catholic Church.

    My guess is chiz is a woman. Taking that silly priest’s advice would do her a world of good – get with the real world ;-)

    But roll on, the anti-Catholic brigade. I wonder who’ll have the last laugh?

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  29. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    One day a guy died and found himself in hell. As he was wallowing in
    despair, he had his first meeting with a demon.

    The demon asked, “Why so glum?”
    The guy responded, “What do you think? I’m in hell!”

    “Hell’s not so bad,” the demon said. “We actually have a lot of fun
    down here. You a drinking man?”
    “Sure,” the man said, “I love to drink.”
    “Well you’re gonna love Mondays then. On Mondays all we do is drink.
    Whiskey, tequila, Guinness, wine coolers, diet Tab and Fresca. We
    drink till we throw up and then we drink some more!”
    The guy is astounded. “Damn, that sounds great.”
    “You a smoker?” the demon asked.
    “You better believe it!”
    “You’re gonna love Tuesdays. We get the finest cigars from all over
    the world and smoke our lungs out. If you get cancer, no biggie. You’re
    already dead, remember?”
    “Wow, the guy said, “that’s awesome!”
    The demon continued. “I bet you like to gamble.”
    “Why yes, as a matter of fact I do.”
    “Wednesdays you can gamble all you want. Craps, blackjack, roulette,
    poker, slots, whatever. If you go bankrupt, well, you’re dead anyhow. You
    into drugs?”
    The guy said, “Are you kidding? I love drugs! You don’t mean . . .”
    “That’s right! Thursday is drug day. Help yourself to a great big bowl
    of crack, or smack. Smoke a doobie the size of a submarine. You can do
    all the drugs you want, you’re dead, who cares!”
    “Wow,” the guy said, starting to feel better about his situation, “I
    never realized Hell was such a cool place!”

    The demon said, “You gay?”
    “No.”
    “Ooooh, you’re gonna hate Fridays!”

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  30. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    nasska – but he can still eat meat on Fridays?

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  31. nasska (11,491 comments) says:

    Rodders

    I not quite up to speed on the current position concerning meat or fish on Friday. My best advice for him would be to open his chocolate starfish while he’s choking the eel.

    Can’t be too careful on these matters. :)

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