General Debate 2 December 2012

December 2nd, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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112 Responses to “General Debate 2 December 2012”

  1. big bruv (13,198 comments) says:

    Ok…so let’s see what the excuses are going to be…

    1. The ref?
    2. Suzy?
    3. The new rules?
    4. The crowd?
    5. The weather?
    6. The long season?
    7. The media picking on the team all week?

    Or…..perhaps the Poms were just a better side than the over hyped and over paid New Zealand rugby team.

    All in all a great start to the day.

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  2. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    On the year the All Blacks were the best team, good on them.
    On the day England fully deserved their win, good on them.

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  3. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    John Tamihere was always going to be controversial getting back into Labour, and he’s already proved that.

    The Cunliffe camp dominated Standard is mostly not impressed.

    “JT appeals to a tremendous amount of people out there, he’s a real asset to Labour.”

    “Good heavens!”
    /facepalm
    “It’s an insult to women and gays for the LP leadership to even consider having Tamihere stand!”
    “I have had a gut full of this!”

    “The labour leadership has lost the plot.”
    “I am gutted once again by the blatant disregard of the memberships wants and needs”
    “I hear Shearer strongly supports Tamihere. “
    “Grant Robertson also spoke strongly in favour of giving Tamihere another chance.”

    More First impressions on Tamihere.

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  4. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    “…….women and gays”,well that about summarises modern Labour,mind you the Nats are going that way too.

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  5. James Stephenson (2,004 comments) says:

    @bruv – I’m sure that we’ll be hearing how that “tummy bug” was much more serious than they let on during the week…

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  6. big bruv (13,198 comments) says:

    James.

    I agree. I await Steve (Mumbles) Hansen telling us that there was a South African waitress working at their hotel.

    Further inquires will reveal that while nobody outside the NZ team (and its army of hangers on) can remember the South African waitress the team will insist that her name was Suzy and that she was the person who poisoned them.

    Oh…and bereal is still crying into his beer asking why the world hates the NZ team.

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  7. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    I’m sure the whole world could not hate the All Blacks more than you do, BB.

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  8. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    I’m an AB supporter, but there is no doubt about it: England deserved to win this morning’s game. No excuses.

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  9. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    The world hates Tories.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/9714190/Petronella-Wyatt-I-was-bullied-out-of-Oxford-for-being-a-Tory.html

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  10. RF (1,259 comments) says:

    Memo to Steve Hansen …. Looks as if the ABs have just gone down the “Dunny”.

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  11. dog_eat_dog (741 comments) says:

    I like how some people are expecting whinging and excuses but the coach, captain and all the posters not trolling so far have openly stated that England were just the better team. Maybe it’s you guys with the chip on your collective shoulders about this?

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  12. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Interesting also to see opposition to Labour’s housing proposals from camp Cunliffe – they have seen that it targets middle New Zealand and effectively leaves out the poor. They view that as another sign of a move to the centre (as they see the Tamihere return).

    http://thestandard.org.nz/labours-housing-policy-a-bold-and-radical-winner/

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  13. James Stephenson (2,004 comments) says:

    @d_e_g No “chip” I’m just a pom, with long experience of the way NZ players and fans seem to lose all proportion and logic when it comes to England.

    Still, if they can get through this without excuses, perhaps there’s hope for when they lose the next match that actually matters…I see that stuff were still re-hashing the “Lap of Honour” nonsense from 1997 pre-match.

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  14. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Oh – My God – I dont know how I will get thru the day…….

    Tamahere says that hes NOT joining the womens party, or the gay party or the union party,…… but he thinks hes joining the LABOUR Party.

    I think hes been on the turps too much to think that

    And then guess what he said ??

    He called the Minister of social Welfare……(I can hradly bring myself to repeat it)….FAT!!

    Oh – the horror, the insult!!!

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  15. Komata (1,105 comments) says:

    ‘Oh – the horror, the insult!!’

    And oh the silence from the media!!

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  16. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    Is she not fat?

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  17. RF (1,259 comments) says:

    Mikenmild. Chunky with a drizzle of the girl next door.

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  18. Nookin (3,031 comments) says:

    The standard of the news media in this country is frequently in their subject of discussion on this blog. Stuff seems intent on perpetuating the commonly held view that some people should never be allowed near a keyboard.

    The 1st news story is published under the banner “Police error may have cost life”. Here is the link to the story:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8024565/Cops-mistake-may-have-cost-P-makers-life

    So, it seems that the police are responsible for the death of a criminal who undertook an inherently dangerous and criminal activity in a wholly unsuitable place, entirely of his own volition and at least 12 – 24 months after any last contact with the police.

    Perhaps Mr Kidd could go even further. Perhaps he should investigate who gave the deceased’s driver’s licence. Without that, he would never have got to the cave in the 1st place! Do we blame his chemistry teacher as well?

    Idiot headline. Idiot story. Idiot.

    The 2nd idiot headline reads “ABs loss a sour way to end the season”. (http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/8024747/ABs-loss-a-sour-way-to-end-the-season)
    News for you, Mr Napier . The All Blacks do not have a divine right to win. They are not the greatest ever. They are not always on the verge of a perfect game. They are not head and shoulders above everyone else. They can be wonderful on their day, but then, and again, so can any other team. The Irish ran them extremely close. The Aussies ran them very close. France were only a penalty or a drop kick away from taking the World Cup. The Poms beat the living daylights out of them and made them look very ordinary. Sure they put in some wonderful performances but this does not, ever, justify putting a team on a pedestal above everyone else and throwing your toys out of the cot when they do not measure up.
    There was nothing “sour” about this game. New Zealand was not up to it. England played above themselves and they won, deservedly so. I do not believe that the All Blacks are themselves as arrogant as some of our journalists who do them a great disservice. People like Napier buildup expectations that are not justified. A loss like this might help bring some journos back to earth.

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  19. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Q @ A this morning had a severely flawed format, trying to fit too many topics into the discussion/debate.

    Len Brown used it to promte what is happening in Auckland, Turei used it to continue her sloganeering (but she avoided talking about increasing the population instead trying to talk up her poverty meme), Winston was Whineston, Collins was ok concentrating on asking rather than stating but there wasn’t enough time to develop discussions and Dunne got Collins’ idea and ended up following suit.

    There was only one topic that could be dealt with in the limited time – changing the parliamentary term to four years, with everyone agreeing. The only disagreement was on how to make the decision that seems obvious.

    I don’t think a four year term should go to referendum. Many people won’t much idea about the difficulties with implementing medium term policies within a cramped term. The vote may be dominated by emotion rather than informed and sensible decisions.

    I think parliament should just decide on common sense and do it.

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  20. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    There was only one topic that could be dealt with in the limited time – changing the parliamentary term to four years, with everyone agreeing. The only disagreement was on how to make the decision that seems obvious.

    Which was exactly Don Braids point in his interview. (i.e. Braid of Mainfreight fame.)

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  21. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    A man who died from toxic fumes caused by the P-lab he had set up in a Coromandel cave would probably be alive today were it not for a police cock-up.
    —————————————–
    Um No. They should apportion blame to exactly where it belongs. With the person who committed the crime and his smart arse lawyer.
    —————————————–
    A year before his death, charges of possession of methamphetamine for supply and possession of equipment used to manufacture the Class A drug were thrown out of court.

    Justice Allan granted the Sunday Star-Times access to a High Court file which shows Murphy was caught “red handed” with 1.67 kilograms of P – worth around $1.5 million – in his Morrinsville home in May, 2009.

    Defence counsel argued early on that the police search was nothing but an illegitimate drug raid performed under the guise of child protection. Murphy’s lawyer, David Jones, QC,

    When the admissibility argument went before Justice Allan again, he stopped short of saying officers had lied under oath but said they had “painted an incomplete picture to mislead the court”.

    He had no choice but to change his original decision and rule the evidence as inadmissible.

    “I regard the outcome without any satisfaction. There’s little doubt that the accused are major drug offenders.
    —————————————
    Justice was served in the finality.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8024565/Cops-mistake-may-have-cost-P-makers-life

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  22. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Turia personifies Whanau Ora problem

    Two things, Tari: selling your flagship policy is not our job, it’s yours. And a little more transparency about what you are spending taxpayers’ money on wouldn’t go amiss.

    It was recently revealed that a quarter of applicants who received Whanau Ora cash were from Te Tai Hauauru – Turia’s electorate. It has only 8 per cent of the Maori population. Turia says she is “more than satisfied with the accountability of the spend”.

    The taxpayer cannot be. If she wants us to believe in her pet policy – which undeniably has its merits – she must lead by example. Whanau Ora needs more accountability and that must start with the minister.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/8024606/Turia-personifies-Whanau-Ora-problem

    And we continue to borrow to fund this stuff.

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  23. Nookin (3,031 comments) says:

    V2
    Agree. See my 10.7 post

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  24. calendar girl (1,172 comments) says:

    I thought that those were your own comments relating to Whanau Ora, V2, and silently applauded. Then I followed the link and found that they were actually comments by an opinion-writer on Stuff. But thanks for bringing it to our attention, V2.

    The opinion-writer raises some interesting questions that deserve consideration. We should all be concerned about these kinds of “untouchable” deals between coalition partners – another poor quality political outcome of our MMP electoral system.

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  25. Longknives (4,384 comments) says:

    Jesus I just woke up and saw the result- Has anyone been round and checked on Bereal or Colville?

    Nookin “The All Blacks do not have a divine right to win”
    Seemingly they do- Tune into Radio Sport and sports websites and have a listen to the mountains of excuses coming out of the woodwork. “Food poisoning”,”The Referee cheated”, “Richie was carrying an injury” and the comically brilliant “England disrespected our haka and upset the boys”

    It’s going to be an amusing week of excuses and conspiracy theories.

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  26. noskire (831 comments) says:

    The plot thickens. Rolf Harris has been interviewed by police as part of the Savile investigation.

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  27. Colville (2,056 comments) says:

    Thanks for your concern Longknives, vast hangover here.
    My beloved ABs just werent in it mentally or physically.
    It must be a near record defeat, when was the last time they had 38 points against?

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  28. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    Effing incredible: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10851430

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  29. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    nookin

    Quite right ,that cops responsible story was utter shit.

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  30. Twinkletoes (52 comments) says:

    Absolutely hilarious if it were not so sad – using their power to install the fear of Allah should the illiterate peasants not comply. Nothing has changed in Islam then.

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  31. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    mikenmild (5,784) Says:

    December 2nd, 2012 at 9:32 am
    Is she not fat?

    Are you not fucking annoying?

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  32. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    I don’t know; I’m not very self-aware.

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  33. BlueGriffon (204 comments) says:

    Good item on ‘affordable housing’ in the Herald yesterday pretty much confirms how big a failure the policy is going to be for Labour when what is proposed for Auckland is too tacky for for the middle class and still too expensive for the poor.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10851153

    The tell-tale comment:
    “And despite the hype over Panama Rd as one of the biggest affordable housing developments in Auckland for many years, Ms Abraham and Mr Armstrong are not interested in it.

    “No way,” they say, referring to privacy issues, the desire for a standalone house and a section with vegetable garden and qualms about the neighbourhood. “We might as well buy into a block of units.””

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  34. Colville (2,056 comments) says:

    BlueGriffon, I read that and laughed.
    The pair of numpties had a private deal on a street they wanted to live on then got a valuation, valuer said its worth less than the agreed price so they pulled out of deal. House then sold for asking price. So valuer fucked up their deal.

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  35. big bruv (13,198 comments) says:

    Not sure why in this day and age we have to sacrifice the lives of dogs so some drug fucked wanker can get his or her legal high.

    It does not help that the prize wanker Peter Dunne is defending the testing (to administer fatal doses) on the dogs, mind you, Dunne has shown that he will agree with anything just as long as he keeps his ministerial salary.

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  36. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    The New Zealand government is making progress in settling Treaty of Waitangi claims with Maori and will sign more agreements before Christmas, Treaty Negotiations Minister Chris Finlayson says.

    “Between now and Christmas I hope to sign seven deeds of settlement and three agreements in principle,” Mr Finlayson told TVNZ’s Marae Investigates program on Sunday.

    Giving money away: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8573674/treaty-of-waitangi-settlements-due

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  37. marcw (222 comments) says:

    I can’t believe that Peter Dunne is being made the scapegoat for recreational drug testing on animals, which will include (shock-horror) the risk/certainty that some test animals will die. It isn’t the Minister that is contracting to do the testing – it is the scum who want to foist these waste chemicals on our community who are submitting compounds for approval, in the hope they will make a “killing” in the market financially. I doubt if any of the testing will even be done in this country.

    Funny how no-one seemed to care when they were being tested on vulnerable adolescents – except for the medical professionals who were faced with the consequences. In fact it seemed that people like wannabe rockstars were idolised and rewarded for their profits.

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  38. Griff (6,690 comments) says:

    Would it not be easer to legalise pot?
    The testing has already been done the lethal dose 50 is way higher than alcohol as a proportion of the effective intoxication dose.
    I would be interested to know what the safe level will be compared to.

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  39. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Arafat died of Aids..what a surprise!

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  40. UglyTruth (3,898 comments) says:

    Would it not be easer to legalise pot?

    Easy, wise, and politically expedient are concepts that are not even within shouting distance of each other.

    As well as the fairly obvious recreational use, there are industrial and medicinal uses. There are some pretty remarkable claims being made about juicing he plant and drinking the liquid as a remedy for “incuables” like cancer.

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  41. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    There’s nothing “recreational” about narcotics. That term is another attempt to diminish the insidious and dangerous nature of illegal drug consumption.

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  42. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    There’s not much chance of a rational approach being applied to drug policy in NZ any time soon. There is really no cogent argument for applying different regimes to different psychoactive substances.

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  43. Griff (6,690 comments) says:

    Alcohol is the principle that gives to ardent spirit and wine their intoxicating power; while the narcotic principle to opium and tobacco imparts similar properties. In popular language, alcohol is classed among the stimulants; and opium and tobacco among the narcotics; which are substances whose ultimate effect upon the animal system is to produce torpor and insensibility; but taken in small quantities they at first exhilarate. And since alcohol does the same, most medical writers, at the present day, class it among the narcotics.

    — Edward Hitchcock, American Temperance Society (1830)

    Pot is not a narcotic, it is a hallucinogenic.
    The lethal dose of alcohol is around four times the drunk driving limit. Deaths regularly occur from alcohol poising.
    For pot its very high well past the state of being capable of imbibing any more. Death from pot is very rare.

    Still reality is not your strong point is it kowtow.: The bible say god made the herbs of the field for man to use. :lol:

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  44. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    kowtow,

    How many people died from alcohol-related causes this year?

    How many people died from cannabis-related causes this year?

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  45. Stamper (32 comments) says:

    Extremely biased item on Chris Laidlaw’s Sunday show this a.m. re the Doha Climate Change negotiations.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/2540273/wayne-brittenden's-counterpoint.asx

    I suggested he should bring some balance to his show;
    It would be worth a few seconds of your time to read the brief “open letter” sent to the UN Secretary General on 29/11/2012 by 125 scientists from around the world.

    http://opinion.financialpost.com/2012/11/29/open-climate-letter-to-un-secretary-general-current-scientific-knowledge-does-not-substantiate-ban-ki-moon-assertions-on-weather-and-climate-say-125-scientists/

    As the science is most definitely not settled regarding Anthropogenic Global Warming.

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  46. Mark (1,356 comments) says:

    Yet another international education study puts NZ in the upper ranges of educational performance. Fascinating that KB is silent on the report.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/8023277/New-Zealand-ranked-8th-in-education-outcomes

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  47. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    Stamper
    I see one of the ‘scientist’ signatories to that letter is Tim Ball, well-known Canadian crank pseudo-scientist.

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  48. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    Oh fuck ,i’ve woken the zombies.

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  49. Reid (15,904 comments) says:

    As the science is most definitely not settled regarding Anthropogenic Global Warming.

    No but you simply can’t explain that to around 50% of the western world and climbing. Tavistock again, BTW. They’re very good at what they do, aren’t they.

    Oh fuck ,i’ve woken the zombies.

    Where? (It’s just I don’t want them to eat my brains, you see.)

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  50. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    mikenmild,

    There’s not much chance of a rational approach being applied to drug policy in NZ any time soon…

    Indeed. A rational approach would first require a rational discussion and a rational discussion requires prominent public figures to put their reputation on the line with the risk that their very serious proposals will be reduced to comedic fodder e.g. Don Brash.

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  51. UglyTruth (3,898 comments) says:

    The bible say god made the herbs of the field for man to use.

    Incidentally, based on etymology cannabis could well have been one of the plants used in the Hebrew annointing oil. The hebrew name was qana beshem, where the em is the Hebrew plural suffix, which suggests that a combination of both cannabis sativa and cannabis indica were used.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2633187.stm

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  52. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    Stamper

    I see one of your interlocutors is ‘mikenmild’, well known kiwiblog crank public servant.

    Stamper,why bother with Laidlaw? His show is a byword for lefty anti west causes.

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  53. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    Oh, and Syun-Ichi Akasofu, one of the experts interviewed in the crank film ‘The Great Global Warming Swindle’. Also Piers Corbyn, participant in same film. Looks like the signatories are the usual bunch of fraudsters. Some of them are also creation ‘scientists’.

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  54. big bruv (13,198 comments) says:

    “Would it not be easer to legalise pot?”

    Legalise all drugs for all I care. Just don’t ask the tax payer to pay once cent toward the rehabilitation costs when the drug fucked wrecks decide they want to come clean.

    Junkies can sleep and die in the gutter for all care, all of them (save the really unfortunate Aaron Cohen types) make a choice to put that shit into their system therefore it is not our problem if the suffer the consequences of their lifestyle choices.

    If we must test new medical drugs before public use then how about we test them on pedophiles and murderes.

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  55. Griff (6,690 comments) says:

    BB
    So we get to pay the cost of pot we can get it legally?
    Will the pissheads pay the horrific cost associated with alcohol?
    50% of the Health and justice departments budgets just to start with……..

    I knew the Cohens went to school with them, born junkies. :sad:

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  56. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    big bruv,

    Legalise all drugs for all I care. Just don’t ask the tax payer to pay once cent toward the rehabilitation costs when the drug fucked wrecks decide they want to come clean.

    Except that you WILL pay not just one cent but many millions of dollars regardless of whether you provide rehabilitation services or not. No man is an island and almost no one, who self-destructs from drug addiction, leaves everyone else untouched.

    In my view, you either pay for rehabilitation now or you pay for prisons later on down the track (along with the cost to the victims who may be hurt along the way).

    Legalization shouldn’t mean a total lack of regulation and control in whatever manner may best reduce the associated harm that is unique to the particular drug in question.

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  57. big bruv (13,198 comments) says:

    Griff

    Unless I am mistaken I believe that Aaron Cohen was born a junkie. His ‘mother’ was taking Heroin during pregnancy.

    I am happy for my tax dollars to go toward helping babies who are born junkies but not for anybody else. They make the choice so they suffer the consequences.

    As for the pissheads, well the answer to that is yes. I have no problem with those who want the odd drink, but those who abuse it can pay for their own recovery costs, it is not my problem.

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  58. big bruv (13,198 comments) says:

    Weihana

    So you support the idea of letting people fuck up with no consequences. No worries, the good old tax payer can pick up the bill for the rehab costs.

    At what stage do you suggest that we start telling low life that we are sick of paying for their mistakes?

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  59. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    “but those who abuse it can pay for their own recovery costs”

    With what? The job they’ve already lost? The money in the bank they’ve already spent? The family who has long since disowned them? The loan with their non-existent credit rating?

    …it is not my problem.

    And yet you’ll still pay for it whether it’s men in white coats or men in prison officer uniforms.

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  60. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    The beauty of honest and sincere coalition partners: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2241629/Nick-Clegg-MPs-demand-inquiry-huge-payment-Booktrust.html

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  61. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    big bruv (10,854) Says:
    December 2nd, 2012 at 3:34 pm

    Weihana

    So you support the idea of letting people fuck up with no consequences.

    I do not see how that follows from what I have said. I’ve simply told you what will happen. How you wish to deal with it is up to you.

    No worries, the good old tax payer can pick up the bill for the rehab costs.

    … or the prison costs.

    At what stage do you suggest that we start telling low life that we are sick of paying for their mistakes?

    Addiction is a sickness. Trying to rationalize with such people is pointless until the sickness is addressed. My view is that the system should be designed to minimize harm. The war on drugs has been shown as a failure and ultimately counter-productive. But that doesn’t change the fact that drug addiction is harmful and complete deregulation isn’t a viable answer.

    There is a social cost to drug abuse and that will be paid one way or the other.

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  62. Reid (15,904 comments) says:

    Apparently a Congressional committee is demanding the TSA wind its head in:

    With a powerful congressional committee like this lining up behind sweeping TSA reform, it is not a question of if, but when Congress — which by the way, does sign the TSA’s checks — acts to dismantle this $8-billion-a-year security boondoggle…

    …Charles Edwards, the Department of Homeland Security’s acting inspector general, described the TSA as bureaucratic and dysfunctional…

    …One by one, panelists took turns excoriating the agency charged with protecting America’s transportation systems. It was plainly clear why Pistole was a no-show, and it had nothing to do with jurisdiction; it would have been an openly hostile crowd….

    TSA Administrator John Pistole refused to testify before the committee on the innocuous subject of “common sense” improvements to America’s airport security, reportedly because the committee has no jurisdiction over his agency.

    http://tsanewsblog.com/7778/news/the-tsa-as-we-know-it-is-dead-heres-why/

    But see it’s not dead and it won’t be. Pistole’s comment about no jurisdiction to the Committee that authorises its funding is exactly what the Gestapo would have said in say 1937, as it was getting established into the German infrastructure. You look at the sort of people they hire in the TSA. Petty, bureaucratic, officious. Put a uniform onto an American and they change and you take the worst of those and you have the perfect TSA inspector.

    They don’t need to grope babies and old ladies to “protect us.” They’re teaching the entire US air-travelling public that they can be intimately violated on a random basis no matter who they are. (Unless they’re politicians or important people or travel on private jets, that’s different.)

    That’s what they are doing, and that is why they are doing it. The Nazis discovered that public nudity was a useful way to subjugate and control people in the camps, that’s why you see lots of photos of that. What the TSA are doing today is a very very toned down but nevertheless equally sinister version of that same technique. Why are they doing that, is a question people should think about.

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  63. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    Yes Reid, the TSA staff are just as bad as, maybe even worse, than Nazi mass murderers. FFS, do you even read what you write?

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  64. bc (1,332 comments) says:

    Mark @3.02pm

    I read that too. Of course there is silence here because it gets in the way of peoples prejudices and anti-teacher, anti-union bashing.
    No mention from the government either because they have to promote thinking from the public that the education system is a mess in order to justify dismantling it. Unfortunately for them the public is not buying it.

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  65. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Both TV1 and TV3 polls tonight show National and Key support slipping a bit and Labour and Shearer up a bit.

    The forming government scenarios are pointless at this stage but the Shearer lifts will make for some interesting discussions. It will make BBQ chat over the summer a hard task for Cunliffe.

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  66. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    All in the family: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8024527/MP-backs-sister-in-feud-over-mothers-estate/

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  67. bc (1,332 comments) says:

    Speaking of silence and education, has anyone else noticed that there has been no sign of Hekia for ages? Where the heck is Hekia!! No mention from Hekia about the Novopay mess that has been going on for over two months for example.

    I’m thinking the National party strategy is to hide her away for the good of the poll ratings.

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  68. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Latest ONE News Colmar Brunton poll:
    NAT 44%(-1)
    LAB 35%(+3)
    GRN 13%(+1)
    NZFirst 4%(-1)
    MAO 1%(-1)
    CNSV 1%
    ACT 1%

    Key down 3 to 39% as Preferred PM, Shearer up 4 to 15%, Peters steady on 6%

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  69. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    The aloof Key and timid National Party dither and stumble over what to do while the lefties grow in confidence.
    God help NZ if an evil alliance of socialists and Luddites win power in 2014.

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  70. Reid (15,904 comments) says:

    Yes Reid, the TSA staff are just as bad as, maybe even worse, than Nazi mass murderers. FFS, do you even read what you write?

    mm slicing the elephant involves slow, thin steps so that no-one notices the increments.

    This is precisely what happened in Germany pre WWII with Hitler in power. A Brit married to a German explained she didn’t notice it, unless and until it hit her. She gave the example of her Jewish doctor, who had just spent the night with her very sick child and in the morning, he turned and asked her whether she still wanted him to be her family doctor. And of course she just said “Of course, why ever not’ and then he explained his pediatric clinic in Munich had been closed down and he’d been warned not to treat any Aryan children.

    This is how it happens.

    I didn’t give the above that the scales would drop from your eyes, I gave it so you could file it away, and observe progress.

    Plus I wanted to change the subject.

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  71. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Hopefully it’s a wake up call for Nats, hopefully they will do some serious thinking about this year’s wobbles and plan for a much tidier and more proactive year.

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  72. Griff (6,690 comments) says:

    PG do you have a link to the poll ?

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  73. bhudson (4,734 comments) says:

    but the Shearer lifts will make for some interesting discussions. It will make BBQ chat over the summer a hard task for Cunliffe.

    Nah, the Shearer lift was only to be expected with his ‘manly’ handling of Cunliffe (along with his face in the papers for a week or so – the television coverage wouldn’t have umm, ahh, helped, ur, much.)

    I understand the TV3 poll has National higher.

    These polls show two things:

    - a natural bounce from Shearer manning up
    - the left exchanging their vote between them (I think you’ll fund TV3 have NZ First lower) while National stays pretty much the same

    There will be another poll for Shearer before the leadership test in Feb. The summer BBQs will be more about forecasting that poll than this one.

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  74. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    Your optimism and confidence in Labour lite are boundless, bhudson.
    Is it the official party line you’re spouting? :-)

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  75. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Griff – not that I can find, One News take a while to put them up, and Colmar Brunton seem to take longer (probably an agreemment with TV1).

    Nothing on 3News site yet either.

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  76. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Stuff on TV1 poll http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8025785/Labour-Greens-could-govern-alone-poll

    The usual suspects at The Standard are already grizzling, it’s a big blow for their Cunliffe.

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  77. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    Look at National and it’s support for so called marriage equality.Support for Treaty,ETS, failure to roll back the smacking nonsense,support for anti tobacco measures,all Nanny stuff.
    What’s the point of a conservative government that’s not conservative?

    Right now we have a caretaker govt barely distinguishable from the last.Even Helen didn’t want to push the social agenda too far.

    Yeah I know the homo marriage thing is a pri members bill,but that’s not the point. So many Nats are in behind.

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  78. Griff (6,690 comments) says:

    Thanks

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  79. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    Today’s National Party is not conservative anymore.
    If Labour is red, Labour lite, led by Key, is just pink (and full of progressives, pinkos, and yes-men.)

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  80. bc (1,332 comments) says:

    I hadn’t seen those poll results.

    Looks like the national Party will have to keep Hekia out of sight (and hope that she will be out for mind) for a bit longer!

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  81. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    3 News report (but they don’t have all the details, hopeless buggers, too much Paddywaffle and not enough detail).

    The National Party is down almost 2 points, and as preferred Prime Minister Mr Key drops to 37.4 percent

    Labour is up 1.6 points, and Mr Shearer up just over 4 percent as preferred Prime Minister.

    Fewer people think Mr Key is doing a good job – 51.9 percent, which is a drop of 3.1 pecent. But slightly less people also think he’s doing poorly – down a point to 29.4 percent.

    Less people think Mr Shearer is doing well. That’s down to 31.6 percent. And more people think Mr Shearer’s doing a poor job, at 34.4 percent – that’s a 2.9 percent rise.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Poll-shows-possible-change-of-Govt/tabid/1607/articleID/278887/Default.aspx

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  82. bhudson (4,734 comments) says:

    TV3 poll:

    Nats 47%
    Labour 34.6%
    Greens 12.9%
    NZ First 2%

    Which reinforces the point I made before about the Left exchanging votes (Nats remain pretty much on their 2011 election result.)

    A coalition partner(s) is important. UF would still go with Nats (assuming Dunne is still there.) Maori Party would negotiate with Nats as they would still be, by far, the party with the largest votes. What happens to ACT (or a rebranded ACT) is important.

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  83. Longknives (4,384 comments) says:

    TV3 Sport are now breathlessly reporting that up to half of the All Blacks were still suffering from food poisoning/illness during last nights hammering from England.

    Strangely pre-game the commentary team told us that the All Blacks had suffered some minor illness during the week but were all now “100% and raring to go!” Watch the replay of that disgraceful throat slitting haka- Nisbett and Marshall can hardly contain their excitement about the thrashing their invincible Adi-Blacks are about to dish out to hapless England.
    Surely someone that close to the camp would have known had the team been hobbled by ‘illness’?

    Now I wouldn’t dare suggest for one minute that our beloved All Blacks would make an excuse after having their arses handed to them …

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  84. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    Well, I only watched the TVNZ news where no excuses were made. That ABs accepted that they had been outplayed.

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  85. Longknives (4,384 comments) says:

    Wait till Steve Tew’s spin doctors get to work this week Mikey- We simply can’t have an All Black loss without some sort of conspiracy or refereeing outrage now can we? (A loss without such an excuse would suggest our invincible heroes are mere mortals and that would not please the sponsors!)

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  86. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Watch the replay of that disgraceful throat slitting haka

    They will never have my support until that stops. They are arrogant thugs and are nothing to aspire to. They represent all that is wrong in NZ society.

    The whole Maori warrior thing ignores reality. The fact is that the Maori “warriors” only fought among themselves. The English fought battles all over the planet and built a global empire. They are proven as far greater warriors, as have many other cultures. Raiding the local village to nick some Kumara and girls, does not cut it people.

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  87. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    We simply can’t have an All Black loss without some sort of conspiracy or refereeing outrage now can we? (A loss without such an excuse would suggest our invincible heroes are mere mortals and that would not please the sponsors!)

    Steve Hansen was quite clear in the press conference, no excuses, England were the better team. Quite obvious really.

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  88. RF (1,259 comments) says:

    Kea. I refuse to watch it and walk out of the room if it’s shown. Savages.

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  89. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    They are proven as far greater warriors

    “Whatever happens,
    We have got,
    The Maxim gun,
    And they have not.”

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  90. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    kowtow (3,289) Says:
    December 2nd, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    Stamper

    I see one of your interlocutors is ‘mikenmild’, well known kiwiblog crank public servant.

    Stamper,why bother with Laidlaw? His show is a byword for lefty anti west causes.
    —————————–
    Aha, is our Abul Luc perhaps Laidlaw in disguise? Same rhetoric.

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  91. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    Maxim gun invented 1884.Had nothing to do with most of the Empire.

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  92. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Queen Elizabeth
    And Dolly Parton
    Die on the same day and they both go to heaven.
    They stand before an Angel to find out if they’ll be admitted.
    Unfortunately, there’s only one space left that day,
    So the Angel must decide which of them gets in.
    The Angel asks Dolly if there’s some particular
    Reason why she should go to Heaven.
    Dolly takes off her top and says, ‘Look at these,
    They’re the most perfect breasts God ever created,
    And I’m sure it will please God to be able to see
    Them every day, for eternity.’
    The Angel thanks Dolly, and asks Her Majesty
    The same question.
    The Queen takes a bottle of Perrier out of her purse, drinks it down.
    Then, wees into a toilet and pulls the lever.

    The Angel says, ‘OK, your Majesty, you may go in.’

    Dolly is outraged and asks, ‘What was that all about?
    I show you two of God’s own perfect creations and
    You turn me down. She wees into a toilet and she gets in!
    Would you explain that to me?’
    ‘Sorry, Dolly,’ says the Angel, ‘but even in Heaven,

    A Royal Flush

    Beats a Pair –
    No Matter How Big They Are.

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  93. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Don’t get too cocky wat. The Maori of today do have machine guns and staff a large percentage of our colonial army. They got Willy Apiata too, and I won’t mess with him :)

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  94. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    While conducting some business at the Courthouse, I overheard a
    lady, who had been arrested for assaulting a Mammogram Technician, say,
    “Your Honor, I’m guilty but…..there were extenuating circumstances.”

    The female Judge said, sarcastically, “I’d certainly like to hear
    those extenuating circumstances.” I did too so… I listened as the
    lady told her story….

    “Your Honor, I had a mammogram appointment, which I actually kept. I
    was met by this perky little clipboard carrier smiling from ear to ear and
    she tilted her head to one side and crooned, “Hi! I’m Belinda! All I need
    you to do is step into this room right here, strip to the waist, then slip
    on this gown. Everything clear?”

    I’m thinking, “Belinda, try decaf. This ain’t rocket science.”
    Belinda then skipped away to prepare the chamber of horrors.

    With the right side finished, Belinda flipped me (literally) to the
    left and said, “Hmmmm. Can you stand on your tippy toes and lean in a tad so
    we can get everything?” Fine, I answered.

    I was freezing, bruised, and out of air, so why not use the
    remaining circulation in my legs and neck to finish me off? My body was in a
    holding pattern that defied gravity (with my other breast wedged between
    those two 4 inch pieces of square glass) when I heard and felt a zap!

    Complete darkness, the power was off!

    Belinda said, “Uh-oh, maintenance is working, bet they hit a snag.”
    Then she headed for the door.

    “Excuse me! You’re not leaving me in this vise alone are you?” I
    shouted.

    Belinda kept going and said, “Oh, you fussy puppy…the door’s wide
    open so you’ll have the emergency hall lights. I’ll be right back.”

    Before I could shout NOOOO! She disappeared. And that’s exactly how
    Bubba and Earl, “maintenance men Extraordinaire” found me…half-naked with
    part of me dangling from the Jaws of Life and the other part smashed between
    glass!

    After exchanging a polite Hi, how’s it going type greeting, Bubba
    (or possibly Earl) asked, to my utter disbelief, if I knew the power was
    off.

    Trying to disguise my hysteria, I replied with as much calmness as
    possible, “Uh, yes, I did but thanks anyway.”

    “OK, you take care now” Bubba replied and waved good-bye as though
    I’d been standing in the line at the grocery store.

    Two hours later, Belinda breezes in wearing a sheepish grin.
    Making no attempt to suppress her amusement, she said, “Oh, I am
    sooo sorry!
    The power came back on and I totally forgot about you! And silly me,
    I went to lunch. Are we upset?”

    And that, Your Honor, is exactly how her head ended up between the
    clamps….”

    The judge could hardly contain her laughter as she said “Case
    Dismissed”.

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  95. Longknives (4,384 comments) says:

    Kea and RF- Amusing that only one week after they reconfirm themselves as the arrogant thugs of World Rugby through the cowardly attack by Andrew Hore (followed by the smug justification by Steve Hansen), the All Blacks back this up with the throat slitting gesture at the English (Which, according to our drooling commentators, is apparently only saved for teams they really hate!)

    I grew up loving the All Blacks, but this current mob are arrogant cheating arseholes. “Swing Low Sweet Chariot!”

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  96. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    What a guy does for his mates.

    http://screencast.com/t/yJhsOGdUkI

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  97. RF (1,259 comments) says:

    Longknives. I think the appropriate expression would be Karma. What goes round etc.

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  98. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Some amazing Art work

    http://screencast.com/t/8pRqeVOcEOJG

    http://screencast.com/t/tmMXwUkwNy9

    http://screencast.com/t/ddhFuf5lWPCM

    http://screencast.com/t/FmlRd2qx4k

    http://screencast.com/t/kStIOtVz7XQV

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  99. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Anyone else enjoying the cricket in Aussie?

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  100. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    Yes Luc, it’s terrific. I have a tenner on a SA win or draw placed just after their first innings closed.

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  101. Longknives (4,384 comments) says:

    I have a lazy tenner on the draw at 10 to 1…The Aussies only have to bat two days! (Any chance of rain?)

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  102. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    This test could become known as Ponting’s mistake, his announcement was a major distraction Australia.

    Great batting from SA.

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  103. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    The West Point Cadet chapel has hosted its first same-sex wedding.

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  104. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    I grew up loving the All Blacks, but this current mob are arrogant cheating arseholes.

    Oh dear Longknives, beryl will be knocking back a few and at the same time tracking down your ISP because obviously you hate your country matey, its just so apparent, you’ve criticized the All Blacks, you , you country hater you- how the hell do you sleep at night saying things like that about the All Blacks?

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  105. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    An Irishman goes into a Dublin florist and says that he would like to buy some flowers for his girlfriend.

    “Certainly” said the florist, “what are you after?”

    “A root”. he replies.

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  106. Reid (15,904 comments) says:

    “A root”. he replies.

    I don’t get it.

    The West Point Cadet chapel has hosted its first same-sex wedding.

    I wonder if, in times to come, any of the SAS will get married to each other, before heading into combat?

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  107. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    OK, the best team on the day won in a fair game, and well done England, you deserved it.

    Question still is,

    what sort of loser arseholes take pleasure in their national team losing ?

    Where else would you find such a bunch of Quislings ?

    Is this type of self hating arseholes found in any other country. i doubt it.

    If these tossers hate their own country so much why don’t they just fuck off ?

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  108. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    I wonder if, in times to come, any of the SAS will get married to each other, before heading into combat?

    Like the IDF?

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  109. Griff (6,690 comments) says:

    bereal

    self hating arsehole…….just fuck off

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  110. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    The feminazis will be up in arms: http://lifestyle.msn.co.nz/nzmenslifestyle/latestnews/8573511/pageant-picks-brazils-most-shapely-behind

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  111. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/nov/30/climate-change-water

    A nice bit of scare tactics from a party that derives his income from spreading fear without facts

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  112. Longknives (4,384 comments) says:

    Bereal me old mate- Thank Christ you are OK! We were worried you might have strung yourself up after your beloved ‘invincible’ team got their arses handed to them by lowly England…..

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