General Debate 30 December 2012

December 30th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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65 Responses to “General Debate 30 December 2012”

  1. Tauhei Notts (1,721 comments) says:

    The lovely thing about Kiwiblog is that if you write crap people will come out of the woodwork and tell you so.
    Let me tell you a story.
    Two days ago I was with friends who insisted that we watch the News at Six.
    I found myself becoming increasingly angry. I felt that the presenter was insulting my intelligence. Indeed, it was almost as if the presenter was taking the piss at people so stupid as to watch her programme. At the first ad break I retired outside for a gasper and a big tasty merlot and thought why I had become agitated. Then I thought that a lot of Green Party supporters get their information from that rubbish programme, and those people all have one thing in common with me: they all have one vote. That is scary.
    I frequently watch the Russian news on Channel 96. Sometimes I watch Fox news. Everybody knows those two channels have a bias, and so one comes to expect the slant they put on the news. But for TV One to say they are unbiassed is a total and complete crock of excrement.
    ………………..
    Quiz question.
    Name any publicly funded organisation, that wants to get its greedy little mits on more taxpayer largesse, that has been refused airtime on National Socialist Radio.

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  2. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Radio New Zealand National is a wonderful public resource. I listen to it a lot for its varied programming and depth of coverage.

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  3. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    RIP Tony Greig. Channel Nine summers will never be the same, and cricket has lost one of its great characters. Thanks for the memories, and for the countless hours of entertainment…

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/rip-tony-greig.html

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  4. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Tauhei Notts, I agree. Our news is shallow and incredibly slanted. Our “in depth” news shows are even more bias, typically running stories for their emotive content only, complete with mood music to hint at how we should feel about it. I have given up on television entirely and news shows just wind me up. It is scary to think that this is how most voters obtain their view of the world.

    I listen to Radio NZ regularly, because they do have some interesting stories and a bit more depth. However, they are a socialist mouth piece and should not receive funding from the State. I may feel differently if they were more balanced.

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  5. Tauhei Notts (1,721 comments) says:

    36 years ago I went to see England, captained by Tony Greig, play the West Indies at home.
    But you haven’t been to the West Indies, a mate commented.
    That’s right, but The Oval is just down the road from Brixton and to the West Indies that is like playing at home.
    It was the day that Greig crawled for a few seconds after he been dismissed. He dropped to his knees and crawled because the locals were bellowing “grovel grovel grovel”. He had made the unfortunate, and since famous, grovel remark at the start of that test series.
    I went back to Camberwell two years ago. These days it is more like Kampala than Jamaica.

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  6. Manolo (13,828 comments) says:

    A defeat for the the socialist president: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/29/us-france-tax-idUSBRE8BS05M20121229

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  7. Paulus (2,631 comments) says:

    Good to see Helen Kelly working the PR to get her positioned to take over Rongotai, for when Annette King goes for Wellington Mayor next year.
    Should be a great left wing shit fight between Labour, and the current Greenpeace encumbent (who is actually doing a good job).
    What happens if Annette does not get it ? – she may not.
    With Jim Anderton or Lianne Dalziell going for Christchurch Mayoralty we could well see the three main cities (and another of minor towns already) under Labour/Greenpeace control.
    Along with Lying Len who will get back, because of complacency, Auckland ratepayers will continue to get what they deserve, and worse to come, when Auckland Council is in the pocket of the left wing coalition Government.
    So let us assume a left wing Labour/Greenpeace Government in 2014, very probable,
    God help Taxpayers and Ratepayers.
    But of course there are not that many actual positive Taxpayers, or Ratepayers who are not subsidised.
    Socialism will boom – how can I get on the bandwagon, as we are in time all expected to be state subsidised, and controlled in time and New Zealand will see this Socialist cancer grow under these real possibilities.
    New Zealanders are too complacent to recognise these possibilities – I am all right Jack attitude dominates
    Looking at Christmas spending, particulalrly in Christchurch, must mean that the Insurance payouts are being used to subsidise the retail markets. I understand from a friendly major dealer that new car sales are the highest in the country in the Christchurch region – especially new and late model expensive European cars.
    Can’t all be bad ????

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  8. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    A defeat for the the socialist president

    People tend to do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the other alternatives.

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  9. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    A poll result:

    There is a Key Research HOS poll in this morning’s herald (not online). National is on 46.9%, Labour 30.7, theGreens 13.3 and NZF 3%.

    And Labour supporters think this is a good result. SavageMicky:

    Makes you wonder how much trashing of the country has to occur before people decide to switch.

    Apart from the fact that most people don’t think the country is being trashed, people need a credible alternative to switch to. They currently don’t have that.

    And Te Reo Puke:

    Another good poll result for the left, Micky. If even the HOS poll shows National falling short of a majority at the end of 2012, then we can be pretty happy going into 2013. Time for Labour to start calling for a snap election, methinks.

    “Pretty happy” having less than two thirds of the support that National has?
    “Pretty happy” with Labour+Greens being 2.9% behind National?

    I guess Labourites should be “pretty happy” they are still ahead of the Greens, considering their current disarray and paltry ambitions.

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  10. Redbaiter (9,080 comments) says:

    “Radio New Zealand National is a wonderful public resource. I listen to it a lot for its varied programming and depth of coverage.”

    Thanks for the laff.

    Re depth and varied coverage, name the presenter who isn’t a pain in the arse progressive liberal communist.

    You read mainstream newspapers. You listen to RNZ. No doubt you spend a lot of time watching mainstream TV.

    Consequently you don’t have a clue as to what is going on anywhere.

    You’re hopelessly uninformed and a supporter of socialism and tyrannical government.

    A large part of your dysfunctional political attitude is a result of your information sources being so limlited and so narrow.

    Try expanding your information horizons.

    Download Mark Levin and listen to him for a week.

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  11. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    More on the poll:

    Prime Minister John Key continues to enjoy unmatched favour in the Key Research- Herald on Sunday poll: 59.8 per cent of eligible voters nominate him their preferred leader.

    That’s significantly higher than National’s support.

    And Matt McCarten scores Key as top of his “MPs who could and should have done better”:

    1. John Key: This year has finished him. His evasiveness over Kim Dotcom, his shonkiness over the SkyCity casino deal to give more pokies for a convention centre, his weakness managing his ministers and his forgetfulness on details of his job is starting to form real doubts that he’s on top of his job. We like nice guys but we expect them to know what they’re doing. This is the year he became a two-term prime minister.

    As they slide into oblivion the left seem to grow in delusion.

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  12. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Yep, 4 hours of Jim Moira adds depth to my understanding of Phyillis of Hawera’s scone reciepe.

    Mary Wilson screaming her opinions at people rather than listening to what they have to say is truely enlightening

    Chris Laidlaw on Sunday mornings with his tips on how to travel around for free, l riviting stuff.

    The only positive is if you are a bit stressed and can’t sleep after your wifes’s left you, your business has gone tits up and your daughters working in a whore house you can listen to Brian Crump and you’ll be out like you’ve been smacked in the head with a brick.

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  13. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    PEB
    There are some very good shows on NatRad. I particularly enjoy Mediawatch, Thus Way Up and the film reviews. It’s a bit sad that folks like you and Reddy only concentrate on the things on air that you hate. Laidlaw is too smug and sanctimonious for my liking, but his show has some very good segments.

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  14. Manolo (13,828 comments) says:

    Comrade mike: the fact that you enjoy RNZ it doesn’t mean we have to fund it.
    Why the need for it in the first place? If so wonderful, why is funding by the state its only way to survive?

    This den of left-wingers and TVNZ should be sold to the highest bidder, so the NZ government should be out of broadcasting and television all together.

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  15. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    …………..you and Reddy only concentrate on the things on air that you hate

    you struggle lots don’t you?

    Nobody forces me to listen to the train wreck that is National Radio. The problem is that its tax payer funded and as such should not be run by the local branch of the labour/greens with failed labour MP’s and sundry other idiots being given a free ride

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  16. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I agree with you about TVNZ Manolo, it’s a piece of junk that is probably all but worthless now.
    Radio NZ, OTOH, is a valuable piece of cultural infrastructure that I regard as a public good. I put it in the same category as libraries, museums and orchestras. For a modest cost, we all buy something that make a positive contribution to the country as a whole.

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  17. David Garrett (7,311 comments) says:

    PEB: you are on good form this morning sir! Chris Laidlaw’s “tips on how to travel around for free..” very devious, u naughty boy…

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  18. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    PEB
    No one is forced to listen to any radio station. I’d suggest though that if you listened to programmes other than those you listed as hating, you might actually enjoy some of them. Or try Concert FM.

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  19. Redbaiter (9,080 comments) says:

    Libraries museums and orchestras were once privately funded.

    Until the thieving socialist politicians that you support came along and started legislatively stealing.

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  20. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    David
    Yes, amusing reference that one. Some people certainly have a cheek!
    Reddy might not realise that most libraries, museums and orchestras have always been state funded, if by ‘state’ you included princes and other magnates. The high arts have always been funded for the entertainment of the priviliged or as philanthropic gestures. Luckily, that process has becomes democratised over the years.

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  21. David Garrett (7,311 comments) says:

    Someone remind me…who was Laidlaw an MP for…the Alliance? Around the same time as Phyllida Bunkle, who also had a bit of trouble understanding the rules as I recall…

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  22. Paulus (2,631 comments) says:

    What does Chris Laidlaw know about travelling round New Zealand for free ?
    I suppose as a one time Labour MP he must know how to do things for free. I thought it was part of the training.

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  23. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    Chris Laidlaw was a Labour MP 1992-1993. Not sure of an Alliance connection but Sue Kedgley is his sister-in-law.

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  24. David Garrett (7,311 comments) says:

    Actually it’s pretty easy if you decide to out yourself if you have been the beneficiary of a suppression order…You make an application to the District/High Court, and Bob’s your Uncle…In my case it took about two days from memory…

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  25. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    David
    Laidlaw was a Labour MP for a brief time in the 1990s. It would seem he really annoyed someone at Parliament.
    Paulus
    I understand Mr Laidlaw excelled in some parts of that training.

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  26. wat dabney (3,774 comments) says:

    Taxpayers should be coerced into subscribing to The Guardian, shouldn’t they milky. That’s effectively what you are arguing.

    Forcing everyone to pay for lowest common denominator statist propaganda is only right and fair.

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  27. David Garrett (7,311 comments) says:

    MM: You do have a sense of humour! …

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  28. David Garrett (7,311 comments) says:

    Anyway, enough of that naughtiness…(or enough for me)… I have confessed in the past to being a Nat Rad listener, and I have also said that I never got shafted by “red radio”; on the contrary they always gave me a very fair shot.

    That said, it is a fact that most of their current presenters/journos are very left leaning..the screeching harridan Mary Wilson probably being the standout…the artistic political reporter Julian Robbins now works for labour I believe…Geoff Robinson is a gentle leftie and a gentleman…Jane Patterson – who occaisonally fills in for the abysmal Simon Mercep on Morning Report – is straight up and fair, and asks good questions whoever she is talking to..

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  29. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    wat
    We are ‘coerced’ into paying for lots of things. I prefer to see it as democratic decisions to pay for a range of services that promote overall public welfare. I can think of lots of things that I don’t believe should be funded by the taxpayer, but Radio NZ is not one of them.
    David
    Rather than being ‘left-leaning’, I think it is arguable that the Radio NZ journalists tend to be a bit anti-government, whoever is in office at the time being. That’s a good thing.

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  30. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    PG, yes, I read the MattMcC wish list this morning and laughed as well. Every so often he will come out with something interesting, but this is just that – a wish list. Is Key perfect? No.

    I dislike the subterfuge of central dumping cost and responsibility on local, and then going ‘oh, look at the rate rises, naughty bad local pollies and councils’, and the lack of any tits in removing middle class welfare (yeah, you know what red, fuck off), but the likes of the west auckland flea lawyer make me piss myself laughing with their calls for snap elections, no mandate blah x 3.

    But Im much happier having Key in the big seat than – god, it sends a shiver down your spine – Goff, Shearer or the ex-BCG twazzock. And worse, the watermelon Australian allowed near the levers of power.

    Im heading to the big smoke tomorrow, to relieve a nice man of two 29’er bikes, new one for me, and a first for my eldest son, and then, after a night of great food and wine at Depot (or maybe the Grill, haven’t decided) he and I will hit the trails in Vegas for a couple of days. Im sure all of that will be banned come the next labour gubbermint. Enjoy it whilst I can, because when it does, Im ratcheting back my earnings to the bare minimum. Refuse to pay those bastards a penny more than I have to.

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  31. big bruv (13,923 comments) says:

    Those All Blacks are sure tough men, it is obvious that the rugby thug was just defending himself from a possible attack by a much smaller and older man.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10856587

    I wonder how long it will be before one of the usual apologists for NZ rugby rushes to defend the POS.

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  32. flipper (4,077 comments) says:

    Good morning. :)

    Interesting and perceptive comments by Pete, EBP, Wat, DG, Paulus and a couple of other. Mike is still wearing his brother’s cardigan, :)

    The earlier observation on buying one’s way back into power is accurate. Did the Obamination and his Chicago machine (aided by MSNBC et al. See below!) not do that?

    Anyway.. it is off to the real world of the present and future of journalism and the media, with yesterday’s post on Fairfax a foretaste of what is to come.

    Slow down and read this little beauty from the Belmont Club, twice! (NOTE Any red Radio employee caught reading this will be dismissed, immediately!)

    I caniot understand why DPS did not post it. I know he has it. Perhaps he is trying to keep his emergence as NZ’s Rupert (2013) Murdoch a secret. :)

    ___________

    Final Performance:

    The dinosaurs are on short rations. But even the little mammals are finding it hard to get enough food. This is the landscape of 2013 and while nobody knows yet how it will turn out the prospects are not encouraging.

    First let’s examine the condition of the giant saurians. Real Clear Markets tracks Europe’s continued economic decline. The days when it expected to conquer the world from Brussels are over. “One has to hope that the markets are right in betting that Mrs. Merkel will be able to hold Europe together in 2013. However, policymakers in the United States would be ill-advised to base their policies on the assumption that all is going to be well in Europe next year. Since all the signs are pointing to a deepening economic recession and a further deterioration in Europe’s political environment that could lead to another intensification of the Euro crisis.”
    In other words Europe may survive, but don’t bet on it. Nor on the flashy and glitzy world of the media which is already writing its own obituary. Everything is failing, according to Matt Haughey. Not only are the papers going bust, so are the blogs, Twitter and Facebook. “The disruptors are getting disrupted” he exults.

    What I’m noticing now is the feeling that the disruptors are beginning to be disrupted themselves. Many of the companies labeled Web 2.0 in the mid-2000s are either no longer with us (Friendster, Bloglines, etc.) or were long ago sold off and subsumed into larger companies. The rise of blogs in the early 2000s seems to be following an opposite trajectory in the early 2010s. Social media/software is taking over not just blogging, but search, and events, and existing location-based startups. Even the giants of the social space aren’t showing signs of blockbuster success beyond their registered user numbers (Facebook is struggling with revenue and its stock price, Twitter is slapping ads on everything and hoping for the best).
    The wolf is at the door of every media undertaking. Paywalls will be erected everywhere say pundits, to keep the lupine interlopers out of doors. But some enterprises have already been given up for dead. Martin Lagevald says the dead tree press is as good as pushing up daisies: “the business model for seven-day printed newspapers in most markets is toast”.

    If it’s any consolation, so is the daily news. Heidi Moore says “newsrooms will be less about the day’s news — much of which has already been taken out of our hands by the 24-hour, minute-by-minute news cycle — and become more like a war room, or a science lab, where teams of researchers think about how to contextualize, present, illustrate, and spread key information, whether it happened that day or not.”

    There may in fact be no more reporters as we know them. People calling themselves journalists will be aggregating video and reports from social media. The New York Times is now creating products where information comes entirely from the readers. “Although it was curated and edited by us, the content came from readers and it was a really striking and pretty incredible piece of journalism. I would expect to see a whole lot more of that.”

    Journalism is becoming an appendage to an entire industry based on tapping into the stream of consciousness of the person in the street. News has been redefined away from what Presidents and business leaders say to what what the crowded masses are thinking to-day.

    They include Geofeedia, Spundge, Twitter Search, Instagram* and RSS feeds, for example, to find out what people are talking about when a story breaks, and “potentially tap into users who are on the scene”.
    News will come from mobile devices, get processed by ‘journalists’ and then turned around and redelivered the same way. There may still be role, some say, for quality controllers. The ‘social news agency’ Storyful does nothing but verify “stories, images and videos for news outlets.”

    Another trend of 2012, particularly around Hurricane Sandy, has been that the journalist’s role has moved to sometimes stopping the spread of information. “It is very counter-intuitive for journalists as we don’t like to kill a story, we like to spread a story, but this year we have seen a lot more journalists, people like Storyful, like Craig Silverman in the US, the efforts of The Atlantic during Hurricane Sandy, dedicated to debunking, calling bullshit on the hoaxes, making sure that they stop the picture of the five foot shark in a flooded garden in New Jersey”. “We are starting to see verification processes scale,” Little added. “Simple tools from Google Maps all the way to TinEye, which helps detect false imagery, are becoming more and more a staple of the journalist’s tool box.

    But as the news cycle quickens it will converge to real time and verification will rely more on the online reputation of the source, or the collective collateral of unknown sources, than any fact checkers. It’s getting to the point where people who want a career in journalism are best served by majoring in information technology. The day of the pure wordsmith is dead.
    Maybe that’s because there are no more press releases to rewrite. Oh they still exist, but they mean less and less. Right now the big worry is how anyone is going to get paid. They’re agreed ads don’t work. Nor do pay walls. And as for selling papers at newsstands, forget it.

    Still everyone’s cheerful. But it is a forced kind of gaiety, the sort that assumes that things will work out simply because they have to.

    About the best that media prophets can come up with is that they’ll operate like Reddit, whose Gold Membership lets you pay not to receive ads and to “belong”. Belong to what group is not specified. But in the future what were formerly called newspapers will charge you for the privilege of being in the company of social friends. When Reddit was running out of funds, the solution, it announced, “was its for-pay Gold program.” What do you get from it? Nobody can say, but its it’s better than anything else the NYT can think of right now.

    There are a few perks like receiving exclusive access to new features before public release, surfacing content from up to 100 Subreddits, access to a super secretive members-only lounge whose existence is neither confirmed nor denied by Reddit, and a few other goodies.

    It is clearly an attempt to create a kind of private currency or barter system. But it is redeemable only in the world of Reddit. Taken to the limit that kind of world will fragment a formerly homogenous public into private clubs each with their own memberships, rules facts and chits. Sort of like a gentleman’s club in 19th century Pall Mall without the gentlemen.
    The “gentlemen” are having it rough. They no longer make the news. They can only detect it by putting their finger on the pulse of social media. Yet the little mammals aren’t that much better fed. And there is precious little pulse. Someone stole Christmas. With the gloom thick in the air Jordan Weismann at the Atlantic argues that it must be the Republicans who ran off with the Holiday Cheer.

    Reuters reports that, according to early data, the U.S. may have just experienced its weakest holiday shopping season since the woeful days of 2008, when the country was still dealing with, you know, a financial crisis and a recession. Holiday-related spending from late October through Christmas inched up 0.7 percent this year, down from last year’s 2 percent growth, according to MasterCard Advisors SpendingPulse. Other sales trackers found similarly meager results. ….
    Santa, Rudolph, Dancer, and Prancer also appear to have collided head on with the fiscal cliff. Americans are watching the negotiations in Washington carefully, and after months of shrugging them off, recent surveys show the impasse in Congress appears to finally be taking a psychological toll on country, making everyone feel a bit nervous about opening their wallets.
    So just raise Obama’s credit card limit and happy days will be here again. But that’s too facile an answer. I’m not sure even Weismann believes it. Maybe there are just too many virtual things — like printed money, Reddit Gold Membrships, diplomas in gender studies, Obamaphone giveaways — chasing fewer and fewer tangible objects. We’re in the last stages of a bubble and you almost hear it start to pop. There is not enough real stuff left in the landscape to redeem the all the appetites that have been whetted over the years.

    The year 2013 may be the one in which the public — monitored via Twitter — either decides it ain’t working or to enrol in Obama’s Federal Gold Membership. The one that gets you a front row seat to his special inner sanctum of 150,000 people.
    If that doesn’t sell well then … maybe the new year won’t be one in which the world actually prospers, but it may be one in which it finally decides it needs a Plan B. There are some solutions that fail not for lack of trying but because they would never work.

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  33. kowtow (8,512 comments) says:

    tauhei nots

    I gave up on what passes for news here a long time ago. I will only occassionally tune in if there is something of interest,but I expect very little of it.

    Mind you the dumbing down has been going on for a very long time. I recall a newsreader in the ’70’s saying the vocabulary was limited to “x” amount of words so the herd could participate.And that doesn’t take account of political bias.

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  34. kowtow (8,512 comments) says:

    The fault lies with the POS Aotearoa media constantly describing protagonists as All Blacks ,the fact he is a former All Black has nothing to do with anything.

    No one other than the immediate players in this case would give a shit about the assault other than the media screaming All Black.
    They have a tendency to do this with certain occupations,police is another.

    Media Wankers. And so are those who jump into every case like this.

    Big bruv is not just an anti Catholic bigot ,he has a huge chip on his shoulder when it comes to footie players,.So many chips……

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  35. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    I am listening to Radio NZ as I write. They have some idiot academic promoting communism/ socialism. I wonder if some hard line right winger would get the same air time and a placid adoring presenter ? Yeah right !

    How many more must die and suffer before these fools see that socialism does not work. The theory sounds attractive, but the delivery is where the problems begin.

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  36. Viking2 (11,484 comments) says:

    Harwira’s not all bad.

    The idyllic community of Whangape is riven and said to be living in fear, with the local marae committee too scared to meet – and the family of MP Hone Harawira is at the heart of the dispute.

    He and his wife Hilda Halkyard-Harawira have battled staunchly against the damage drugs have done to their Far North communities.

    Halkyard-Harawira said the drug bust had started a family feud and struck fear in the community.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10856599

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  37. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    Imperator Fish is taking it easy over the holidays but reposting some of his gems from earlier in the year. The offering from yesterday is a classic & topical since mikenmild’s futile yet spirited defence of Red Radio earlier on this thread.

    Ref: http://www.imperatorfish.com/2012/12/because-im-lazy-part-iv.html

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  38. wat dabney (3,774 comments) says:

    Milky,

    Your argument is that I should be forced into subscribing to The Guardian.

    No thanks.

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  39. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    You know this SEAL guy who just suicided?

    http://www.opinion-maker.org/2012/12/seals-killers-of-osama-dying-or-being-killed/

    http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2011/08/06/unbelievable-more-than-20-navy-seals-from-the-unit-that-killed-osama-bin-laden-die-in-helicopter-crash/

    Wasn’t the change to the second article a nice cute move. I noticed they did that at the time of the crash, it’s nice to find corroboration.

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  40. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    including more than 20 Navy SEALS from the unit that killed Osama bin Laden,,/i>

    whats your point Reid? It doesn’t say it was the idividual members that went after Bin Laden just that mebers of the same unit

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  41. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Anyone here who has been to Fiji and happened to listen to Fijians’ signing the Isa Lei song as the lady in the youtube vid below sings? Its a ballad song. She sings the Tongan version first, then followed by the English version and finally with the Fijian version. Its a popular song in both Tonga and Fiji.

    Isa Lei

    Almost all Fijians that I have met, have no clue at all that the Isa Lei (Ise’isa) song is in fact an original Tongan song, which they thought it was their own. The song was composed by my great great grandad (Tui’vakano) in 1915 and it became popular. A Fijian chief and his family visited Tonga in 1918 and saw the local Police officers sang it and he liked the song, so he took a copy of it to Fiji and the rest is history. The song became popular in Fiji since then, but the Fijians changed the lyrics to suit their Fijian rhymes.

    I was at a party last night where a group of Fijians were singing the Isa Lei. I joined them, but I was singing the Tongan version. They asked me afterward, how did I know the song (even though I wasn’t singing it in Fijian). I told them that the song, was composed by my grand grandfather and the song was stolen by Fijians, so the song is not originally Fijian but Tongan. They couldn’t believe me and thought I was bullsh*tting.

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  42. Redbaiter (9,080 comments) says:

    Thanks for that Fala.

    Interesting comment and nice tune.

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  43. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    whats your point Reid? It doesn’t say it was the idividual members that went after Bin Laden just that mebers of the same unit

    The first version did Paul and the second version didn’t. The stuff I read that most of you don’t has always said this crash did kill the very team members who did the OBL hit. The crash was very suspicious, it broke standard military flight patterns, with a full team on board. This is well known. I have read reports the SEALs are naturally rather annoyed at this. I wouldn’t be surprised if JSOC elements are involved on the Petreus’ side as a result of their disquiet at Obama for doing this. I wouldn’t be surprised at all.

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  44. lilman (960 comments) says:

    Reid stranger things have happened than a group of soliders getting killed on an operation,especially a unit of Seal OPs.
    It makes clear sense that the individuals would be together as a complete finger as combat specialist level units are small and dont generally work as loners or in support of wider attack groups.

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  45. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Reid stranger things have happened than a group of soliders getting killed on an operation,especially a unit of Seal OPs.

    Of course they have lilman but as I said, the helicopter violated standard operating altitude limitations placed specifically in order to avoid ground-missile attack such as what bought it down, and this on a special forces helicopter no less.

    That’s a bit strange, isn’t it.

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  46. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Reid

    A SEAL team consists of 3 x 40 man troops so there obviously werent the whole team on board the helicopter .

    Where are the reports you have read Reid? thats shows this annoyance

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  47. Left Right and Centre (2,983 comments) says:

    kowtow and redbaiter… love your style…. redbaiter should charge admission.

    hello kiwibloggers…

    Personal: I went on my own version of a shooting spree massacre today. My weapon of choice was sugar. I was hitting random victims left, right and centre. I got hold of 2 x 1.5kg sweets for $7. Completely legal in this country. Armed and dangerous. Opened up a 1.5kg bag right there at point of purchase… no mucking around. Aimed at a few people straight away but missed my first few intended victims and then BANG!! Trolley-pushers. Nailed them with four-five slugs each. They weren’t too shy. More shop workers jump starting a car. Two more takers. Body count up to four. Moving onto a servo… I get in amongst the queue… teenager doesn’t even see it coming… like giving candy to a baby. I get the man behind him too. The servo assistant is next. He’s easy meat and doesn’t need a second invitation, taking a big handful. That’s seven.

    No-one is safe… not even a bloke waiting for the bus. Eight. I try to tag a runner but he’s too evasive. It’s true that you often know your victims… got the local dairy owner. Nine. Teens waiting for the bus this time…10, 11, 12, 13… 14!! And a young kid on a bloke’s shoulders… snap!! 15. The bloke somehow manages to escape unharmed. Then I went home and killed myself with sugar. Oh yeah. That’s 16 including the perpetrator.

    Look out… or you’ll be the next sugar hit victim. As long as you say ‘happy new year’ as you go…. it’s all good.

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  48. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    This was one of them Paul.

    http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2011/08/16/wayne-madsen-on-the-murder-of-navy-seals-team-6/

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  49. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    many SEALs believe the SEAL Team 6 members were sacrificed for political reasons because they “knew too much” about the Abbotabad raid.

    they probably would know “too much” as they had been on the fucking job.!!

    Just maybe if the dead consisted of members who did the Bin Laden raid, maybe just maybe a family member or two may have spoken out, even just maybe the lame lazy MSM would have picked up on this

    that blog makes NZ Conservative look like a site written by well balanced tolerant and open minded individuals.

    If that is type of site you get your information from Reid the MSM has nothing to fear and all reports of its immediate demise are ill founded

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  50. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    It was actually the full report from Madsen that I read back when it happened Paul, it wasn’t available in the list of links when I just googled it. And your comment about the site it typical of those ignorant of this field.

    The sites by their nature cover topics MSM and mainstream thinkers like yourself never spend any time thinking about because you think, in your infinite “wisdom” none of it could possibly be true so you don’t bother reading any of it. Consequently you never build any discernment whatsoever to use in distinguishing between stuff that might be true and stuff that probably isn’t. Which you need to have, if you really are looking at material that fits a picture.

    I speculated above about a possible Petreus-JSOC connection. What do you or others think about that? Of course to know what is behind Petreus and Obama and the other generals that recently “resigned” you’d have to know about the background to those firings too and guess what, strangely enough the MSM hasn’t covered that either.

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  51. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Dear oh dear Reid

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  52. Don the Kiwi (1,762 comments) says:

    Reid.
    As I’m sure you’re aware, the US MSM is simply another arm of the Obumbler propaganda machine, and they snuff out any news that is detrimental to Obumbler.
    O’Bumlber/Democrat good – Republican/Common sense evil.

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  53. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    As I’m sure you’re aware, the US MSM is simply another arm of the Obumbler propaganda machine, and they snuff out any news that is detrimental to Obumbler.

    You mean like they did with Bush too Don?

    Or didn’t you see those ones?

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  54. Steve (North Shore) (4,564 comments) says:

    A greay Xmas present I recieved from my daughter.
    “The Sheep Whisperer” by Tom Davidson.

    Layabout Kevin Dolittle is looking forward to a summer on the dole when WINZ thrusts him into action as a trainee shepherd. Kevin soon discovers he can communicate with a flock of renegade sheep, led by Jonkey (who replaced an old ewe called Helen). It’s not just the sheep who get roasted in this satire of New Zealand politics.

    Still laughing my tits off

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  55. Steve (North Shore) (4,564 comments) says:

    bloody edit, great*

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  56. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    Imagine how the power hungry incompetents in the UN would stuff it up.

    Ref: http://imgur.com/gallery/2pCEV

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  57. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    A Muslim girl sobs to her teenage heartthrob, “My father says he’ll make sure that I’ll never see you again.”

    “How, what’s he gonna do?”, the boyfriend asks.

    “He’s covering the eye holes in my burqa.”

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  58. lilman (960 comments) says:

    SOP is a relative term and special ops team are at liberty to access and decide actions and response to threats and objective protocols.
    I have complete faith that the pilots and team leaders make judgments outside SOP norms on a daily basis.This would be nothing new in a combat zone, infact it would be treated as a normal response to threat and response peramiters.

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  59. David Garrett (7,311 comments) says:

    Re the SEAL team who “knew too much”…like what? That bin Laden, when cornered in his bedroom, put this hands up and cried ‘Uncle’, but then was viciously shot down anyway?

    Ask yourself conspiracy theorists…Just how many yanks do you think would give a rat’s rectum if that’s how it actually went down? Who else – other than members of Green parties worldwide – would give a damn?

    This one makes even less sense than ” the twin towers were brought down by the CIA”…

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  60. Andrei (2,664 comments) says:

    LOL – How American Astronauts get to space in the age of Obama, in this case Sunita Williams July 13 this year.

    The USA has sure lost its way – Слава святои России

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  61. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    A tour of the ISS with Sunita Williams who downlinked the video before she, cosmonaut Yuri Malenchenko and Flight Engineer Aki Hoshide of the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency departed in their Soyuz TMA-05M spacecraft for a landing in Kazakhstan.

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  62. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    David as the original article mentioned, one of the issues that has always been around is the evidence he died in a Karachi Hospital in 2001.

    The ‘war on terror’ is complete bollocks. If it is was real, the US would not be conducting itself the way it does, with actions designed to exacerbate not decrease the “threat.”

    But OBL was the main villain of the piece and he could hardly prove to be an imposter sometime in the future, could he. They couldn’t take that risk.

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  63. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Reid
    The only thing that is not complete bollocks in your contributions to this thread is the assertion that “The ‘war on terror’ is complete bollocks”.

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  64. Reid (16,491 comments) says:

    Since that’s a vital central geopolitical premise these days which many miss, well done mm, but if that’s the case then why doesn’t what I’ve said above fit with that premise?

    In particular what do you think about my postulation of a JSOC connection to the Petreus camp as a result of this killing? And do you think the commander’s “suicide” is related, or merely convenient, if something were happening?

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  65. David Garrett (7,311 comments) says:

    So he died in a Karachi hospital in 2001, and the guy they took out in the raid was an imposter…so what? All the yanks need is for him to be dead…now he’s dead…they don’t much care how or when.

    But for you, the moon landings didn’t happen either, right?

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