General Debate 3 December 2012

December 3rd, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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90 Responses to “General Debate 3 December 2012”

  1. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Looks like it’s all over for the Torries.

    I think they will go down as the worst performing government of the last 35 years. Can’t get key policy through the House, back-downs, myriad of lies around secret service/KimDotcom/tax cuts/Cup of Tea, coalition partner a sick joke, etc.

    The government will be remembered for high unemployment and a lack of economic growth.

    They will leave New Zealand a much worse place than it was in 2008.

    Shame on the lot of them.

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  2. Lance (2,713 comments) says:

    @Hamy

    Who the fuck are the Torries?

    Sounds like some cloth capped pommy union speak to me. You know like the boyz of Sth Auckland that can only talk like the gangsta’s from LA

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  3. Manolo (14,169 comments) says:

    What are the Torries?

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  4. Keeping Stock (9,380 comments) says:

    Poor Hamnida; his hero David C has been nobbled by the dark forces of David S and Trevor M, whilst all the while Grant Robertson sits back and smiles…

    Hamnida the Hobbit-hater also forgets that there was a global financial crisis, that the New Zealand economy was in freefall before Michael Cullen left office, and that Cullen’s final Prefu predicted a “decade of deficits”. He also ignores the fact that the New Zealand economy is actually performing better than many of those countries he so admires.

    Still; at least it didn’t rain razor blades on Hobbit Day, and Sir Peter Jackson hasn’t yet been arrested for treason despite Hamnida’s pleas; what a sad and sorry life our friend Hamnida leads.

    Hamnida; living, breathing proof of the need for National Standards in Literacy :D

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  5. kowtow (8,938 comments) says:

    Torries?

    People with brown skin and fuzzy hair from FNQ?

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  6. James Stephenson (2,266 comments) says:

    What are the Torries?

    It’s Aussie bogan-speak for Holden Toranas, but I don’t get how that’s relevant to NZ politics.

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  7. hmmokrightitis (1,596 comments) says:

    Your understanding of what constitutes a ‘Tory’ is as woeful as your spelling hamfucker. I’m sure they are honestly held opinions, and of course you are welcome to express them, but dear god, some semblance of being anchored in reality as opposed to mouthing of slogans would go amiss. Just because YOU think these things, it doesn’t hold true that thinking grownups do.

    Has mummy not told you that?

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  8. Keeping Stock (9,380 comments) says:

    So the police are now to blame for a bloke setting up a P-lab in a cave, powering it with a petrol-powered generator and dying of carbon monoxide poisoning because of inadequate ventilation? That’s drawing a very long bow, don’tcha think?

    We all make decisions every day, good and bad. And every decision, whether good or bad has a consequence. Kerry Murphy was the bloke who made a series of bad decisions with fatal consequences, not the NZ Police.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/drawing-long-bow.html

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  9. graham (2,348 comments) says:

    Maybe Hamnida has the hots for a rather spunky wrestler?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrie_Wilson

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  10. bhudson (4,741 comments) says:

    So TV3 has the Nats at 47% – essentially the same as the election result last year – and Hamnida thinks this is the worst performing govt of the past 35 years.

    It seems he is out of touch with the general public.

    Just as Labour is.

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  11. gravedodger (1,575 comments) says:

    Oh the cruelty

    You are only picking on Hamnuts because;
    a It is thick
    b It has very few functioning brain cells.
    c t is a monorail socialist.
    d It has no concept of the world you all live in.
    e It was dropped as a baby on its head.
    F all of the above

    Maybe in a few years we will discover Hamnuts was reared in a P Lab .

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  12. kowtow (8,938 comments) says:

    KS
    The Meth cock,sorry cook,should be up for a Darwin award and the cop,judge and defence lawyer who managed (for differering reasons and motivations) to keep him out of prison (and off the taxpayers tit) should get an award from Treasury.
    The Taxpayer’s Friend Medal,First Class.

    The journo who wrote that piece of shit should get his nose rubbed in it.And his editor should be ashamed of himself.

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  13. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    Dimes making more money now than he was in 2008.

    Business is up by 30%.

    We employ 4 extra people – all well over the average income..

    Dimes tax rate is down.

    Dimes new estate is just lovely :D

    Dimes mortgage rate is way down. (sure its because of the global fuck up we live in, but if national has to take the blame then they can get that piece of credit too :) )

    I think National should be doing more. But im way better off than i was under labour.

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  14. MikeG (425 comments) says:

    @bhudson – if you are going to compare a poll with the election result you need to compare what the same poll was saying at election time. In this case TV3 had National at 50.8%, so that’s a drop of 3-4% from the election.

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  15. Yvette (2,763 comments) says:

    New Zealand’s lead negotiator in the controversial Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal proposal is encouraging exporters to make their interests known to him as the talks continue.
    About 500 delegates from 11 countries will sit down to talks in Auckland today for the 15th round of TPP negotiations.
    New to the table are Canada and Mexico, which between them represent $1 billion of two-way trade with New Zealand.
    David Walker, lead negotiator for New Zealand, said businesses which could benefit from the deal should feel free to talk to the negotiating team.
    “We’re interested to hear from any exporters, whether it be goods exporters, services exporters, on any particular interest they might have … Input from any stakeholders is always welcome.”

    This is the part where later, we will be told we were consulted with extensively over a wide range of matters

    … Whatever their view, officials at this week’s talks are under pressure to strike a deal after Prime Minister John Key and United States President Barack Obama indicated they wanted the trade deal wrapped up within a year.
    The Auckland round will conclude on December 12.

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  16. Longknives (4,954 comments) says:

    Torrie Wilson- Giggidy!
    Check out some of her bikini matches on You Tube- now that’s sport!

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  17. Manolo (14,169 comments) says:

    The dream of a terrorist: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/162753#.ULtq5oPAcaA

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  18. Pete George (23,798 comments) says:

    MikeG – you can’t directly compare polls with election results, many people think differently when voting compared to when they respond on the spur of the moment to a poll.

    Polls are only indicative of snapshot support levels. Elections involve much more consideration and involve tactical voting.

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  19. Longknives (4,954 comments) says:

    So Australia only need 600 odd to win to send Ponting out in style. ‘Punter’ really should have retired three years ago when he was the best batsman in the game.

    On that note- How good is Amla? That guy makes batting look easy….

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  20. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I hate Ricky Ponting and agree he should have retired some time ago.

    The most pleasing thing about his retirement is that he will not be able to chase down Tendulkar’s world test runs record.

    Amla is the best batsman in the world currently.

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  21. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    You Neolibs can abuse me, but it wont change the polls.

    See you later Tory Party.

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  22. Manolo (14,169 comments) says:

    What sentence will the justice system impose on these two savage animals?
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8027508/Journalist-killing-trial-to-commence

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  23. graham (2,348 comments) says:

    You’re quite right, Hamnida – we can’t change the polls.

    And, as we all know, the only poll that counts for anything is the one that occurs on election night.

    See you then.

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  24. RightNow (7,014 comments) says:

    Ha ha the hater:
    “You Neolibs can abuse me” – we don’t need your permission

    “but it wont change the polls.” – they’ll change themselves as sure as you abuse yourself.

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  25. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    “The most pleasing thing about his retirement is that he will not be able to chase down Tendulkar’s world test runs record. ”

    Why is that pleasing?

    Longknives – think Ponting is exiting at the right time. 3 years ago it would have hurt the aussies bad. think of the greats they have lost in the last few years – haden, gilly, warne, mcgrath… then add in martyn and langer.

    Ponting has averaged 45 this year and hit a double century (which helped the avg).

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  26. wreck1080 (3,999 comments) says:

    I wonder if David Bain gets a big payout — will he give 1/2 to Joe Karam whose efforts resulted in Bains aquittal?

    Thought crossed my mind when Bains name was mentioned on the news today (related to the report on his compensation).

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  27. Pete George (23,798 comments) says:

    Ponting has still been outperforming every Black Cap chap.

    I think his big retirement announcement was a major distraction for the Aussies and they are likely to pay for it. Except if they do the unlikely and pull off a win, or even save the match for a draw, then they will deserve applause.

    But Ponting will be under huge pressure when he bats, probably today. Obviously the result is at stake for the team, but he’s also set himself up to be spotlighted and remembered for his last test.

    I just hope Amla and his team mates have just peaked for the year and their form drops off quickly, like plummets in about two weeks.

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  28. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    Pete – Ross Taylor has had a better year than Ponting. I think hes 8th in the world now on the test rankings

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  29. MikeG (425 comments) says:

    @Pete George at 9:52am

    That was exactly my point. Since the election the TV3 poll has National dropping 3-4 points. bhudson was comparing the last election result with the TV3 poll.

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  30. Longknives (4,954 comments) says:

    I like to see great players go out on top- and, like it or not Hammie, Ponting is one of cricket’s modern day greats.

    As for hopes South Africa have peaked- Amla could bat left handed and still hit a ton against the Black Caps…

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  31. Keeping Stock (9,380 comments) says:

    Hamnida said

    I hate Ricky Ponting and agree he should have retired some time ago.

    All this hate Hamnida; John Key, Sir Peter Jackson and now Ricky Ponting. Hate is a terribly dangerous thing mate; I seriously suggest you get some help before it completely consumes you.

    There are lots of people (and things) that I dislike, but the only thing I hate is brussel sprouts :P

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  32. Longknives (4,954 comments) says:

    Wreck- No ‘ifs’ about it. David Bain IS getting a taxpayer-funded cash payout for slaughtering his family.
    Want to blame anyone? Then look no further than the starry-eyed jury who somehow overlooked mountains of overwhelming evidence…

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  33. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    Longknives – i hear ya. it would have been nice. hell it would be nice if he could go out steve waugh style – a blazing 100. maybe billie can steal a stump again…

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  34. Lance (2,713 comments) says:

    Hating is what keep Hamnida warm at night.

    ‘My precious’

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  35. Pete George (23,798 comments) says:

    Thanks Dime, I was guessing a bit. I’ve just checked ICC rankings.

    Batting rankings – Amla is only 5th but must be on the rise.
    Clark is 1st.
    Taylor is 8th.
    Ponting is 24th.
    McCallum is the next Black Cap at 27th.

    That’s not this year’s performances though.

    NZ team rankings:
    Tests – 8th
    ODI – 9th (below Bangladesh)
    Twenty20 – 8th

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  36. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    My most hated Australian cricketers:

    1. Ponting
    2. Siddle
    3. B Lee
    4. S Lee
    5. Haddin
    6. Clark
    7. Watson

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  37. Manolo (14,169 comments) says:

    …but the only thing I hate is brussel sprouts.

    It’s very wrong to hate brussel sprouts.
    Steamed and with a sprinke of rock salt, black pepper and good olive oil, they are absolutely delicious.

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  38. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    So much hate hammy.

    Pete – Amla has been amazing for the last couple of years. Clarke, Kallis & that pommy opener must be ahead of him?

    Im guessing Amla is muslim with that beard?

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  39. bhudson (4,741 comments) says:

    @MikeG,

    Your reasoning only holds true if you can prove that there would be a variance between this TV3 poll result and an election held today.

    While there did prove to be a difference for National between the Nov 2011 TV3 and the election result, they got Labour pretty much spot on at 27%.

    It is an equal assumption to presume that National polling at 47% now would actually yield a lower result if an election were held today. That would require being able to show at what point between 27% and 50% polling the actual result diverges from the poll result.

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  40. Longknives (4,954 comments) says:

    Alistair Cook. Best opening bat in World cricket…..a runscoring machine.

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  41. Longknives (4,954 comments) says:

    Why all the hate Hamnida? Did Brad Haddin, for example, do anything particular to you?
    Did Brett Lee steal your girlfriend??

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  42. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    I have to admit, i cant stand Brad Haddin.

    When the going got tough his real personality would come out. I find him to be a cheat.

    Was never a mtchell johnson fan – not his fault though. just the build up he would get from the commentators.

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  43. Pete George (23,798 comments) says:

    Top 30 batsmen ICC rankings

    1 890 M.J. Clarke AUS
    2 879 S. Chanderpaul WI
    3 855 J.H. Kallis SA
    4 848 K.C. Sangakkara SL
    5 845 H.M. Amla SA
    6 835 A.N. Cook ENG
    7 788 K.P. Pietersen ENG
    8 785 R.L. Taylor NZ
    9 782 A.B. de Villiers SA
    10 761 Younus Khan PAK
    11 753 Azhar Ali PAK
    12 751 G.C. Smith SA
    13 746 M.E.K. Hussey AUS
    14 720 Misbah-ul-Haq PAK
    15 703 T.T. Samaraweera SL
    16 689 M.J. Prior ENG
    17 682 D.P.M.D. Jayawardene SL
    18 669 S.R. Tendulkar IND
    18 669 I.R. Bell ENG
    20 668 M.N. Samuels WI
    21 665 C.A. Pujara IND
    22 661 D.M. Bravo WI
    22 661 I.J.L. Trott ENG
    24 648 R.T. Ponting AUS
    25 647 V. Sehwag IND
    26 642 A.D. Mathews SL
    27 615 B.B. McCullum NZ
    28 612 A.N. Petersen SA
    28 612 C.H. Gayle WI
    30 609 T.M. Dilshan SL

    Number from country in top 30:
    England 5
    South Africa 5
    Sri Lanka 5
    West Indies 4
    Australia 3
    Pakistan 3
    India 3
    New Zealand 2

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  44. James Stephenson (2,266 comments) says:

    How can one have a “most hated” list of Aussie cricketers without Glenn “Dish it out, but can’t take it” McGrath?

    Ponting might have been an insufferably brilliant batsman, but he made up for it by his utter uselessness as a captain.

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  45. MikeG (425 comments) says:

    @bhudson – this interactive graphic (when available) shows the bias of various polls quite well.

    http://imgh.us/nzpolls03122012.svg

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  46. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    @wreck1080 / longknives: All is not lost. Indeed, in my eyes, Judith Collins has taken a massive step forward with this:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8028450/Bain-compensation-fight-setback

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  47. Pete George (23,798 comments) says:

    MikeG – that trend lines on that graphic don’t make sense.

    National’s is tracking well below all recent polls (only one poll since the election is below the line).

    And the NZ First trend is above all polls since the election except one (that it goes through).

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  48. Pete George (23,798 comments) says:

    Manolo – I always suspected there was something fundamentally wrong with you. Extreme political views are one thing, but an extreme taste in vegetables is inexcusable.

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  49. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    S. Chanderpaul – averaging 90+ this year.

    The actual points are high. 890?? dam!

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  50. Reid (16,700 comments) says:

    This is good.

    This guy was on the plane that crashed into the Hudson river. Three things he learned from that.

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  51. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    My favourite Australian cricketers:

    D Boon
    M Hughes
    B Hilfenhaus
    S Warne (the thinking man’s cricketer)

    I left G McGrath off the most hated listed because of his charity work since retirement.

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  52. Longknives (4,954 comments) says:

    David Boon was the greatest Australian sportsman ever! The stats don’t lie-

    “Boon achieved much fame and notoriety for consuming 52 cans of beer on a flight from Sydney to London before the victorious 1989 Ashes tour …. the previous record had been held by Rod Marsh”

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  53. RF (1,488 comments) says:

    Ham the Hobbit hater reminds me of a wind up toy. Keeps springing into life when you wind it.

    Someone should lock it away or better still throw it down a mine shaft.

    One sick puppy. Goes from gambling to hating people.

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  54. MikeG (425 comments) says:

    Pete – it’s not my chart – the link below explains a little more as to how it is constructed. If you hover over a point the graph will show the trend-line for that particular polling company. The default trend-line tries to take account of the bias in each poll.

    https://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/05/26/more-poll-chart-porn/

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  55. Reid (16,700 comments) says:

    I’m afraid Mike those links still don’t answer Pete’s question (which I also query). We need to know the calculation for the bias which is not provided in the links. Also if the claim is the bias differences accounts for the differing trend lines then the graphics are showing much more difference than would be apparent if those trend lines really were only reflecting the difference in bias. So something doesn’t add up.

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  56. bhudson (4,741 comments) says:

    The default trend-line tries to take account of the bias in each poll.

    Except it doesn’t establish whether the bias is real over a significant period of time (it is criticised in the comments for representing only n=2) and it also does not determine whether any bias is a result of the polling level (being around 30% or below, or being up around 50%), or a reflection of a specific party bias (more people tend to say they will vote national but don’t.)

    Or, put another way, it doesn’t show whether or not a positive bias would still exist for National if they were polling around 30%, or if a positive bias for Labour would appear if they were polling closer to 50%.

    In other words, it does not prove that the 47% for National in the latest TV3 would not be replicated if an election were held today.

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  57. MikeG (425 comments) says:

    Reid – I repeat, it’s not my chart or methodology. I guess we’ll see on the next election night how correct it is, and it may well surprise a few Dick Morris’s out there.

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  58. Fisiani (1,052 comments) says:

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/regional/122487/toll-road-plan-through-fiordland-national-park-gets-backing

    I have been advocating this for 25 years. A road from Haast to Milford Sound saving motorists a 335 km journey. What is to bet the Greens will oppose progress, impose travel costs and continue to impoverish the West Coast. This is a fantastic idea. a $20 toll is nothing compared with the petrol saving.

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  59. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    Another pervert from the catholic institution facing TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY-TWO new charges of child sex abuse…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8027533/Sex-accused-brother-bailed

    (252 NEW charges! On top of whatever he had been facing previously!)

    It was nice of his employers to move him to Sri Lanka – from whence he could not be extradited to face trial. It’s almost like his employers are corrupt and not really interested in truth, justice or honesty…

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  60. noskire (835 comments) says:

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  61. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    Fisiani – yes, that road would be brilliant!

    I’ll believe it when I see it though…

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  62. Reid (16,700 comments) says:

    As I’ve explained before, the EU is the prototype model for a one-world govt and NATO is its military wing.

    In order to achieve this they need to destroy individual nationalism and this is why all the politicians of all kinds in all EU countries have been allowing unrestricted Muslim immigration against the wishes of their own voters. It’s also why they take various moves designed to prevent individual nations managing their own affairs. In this latest attempt to slice the elephant, they’re proposing to veto the ability of nations to determine their own defence policies. The Czech President is speaking out against it. Let’s hope history doesn’t repeat and he’s left sitting in the ante room while Germany, France and GB sign away his nation for the sake of: ‘peace in our time.’

    http://www.businessinsider.com/vclav-klaus-on-european-democracy-2012-9#ixzz2DnXbBGhk

    It staggers me that this has been happening in plain sight for over a decade and many so called ‘astute’ political observers just let it unfold before their eyes without even a hint of recognition as to what’s happening. And most of these so called ‘astute’ political observers bizarrely pride themselves of being lovers of and defenders of the democratic process.

    It was nice of his employers to move him to Sri Lanka

    They didn’t RRM. I would assume he’s been ex-communicated. He went to Sri Lanka because a friend who lives there suggested it, as reported over the weekend. Nothing suspicious about a pedo wanting to live in Sri Lanka, is there. Nooooooo…

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  63. Reid (16,700 comments) says:

    Meanwhile in Israel, Bibi makes another move to express his displeasure at the temerity of the Palestinians to seek autonomy as a free nation. How dare they!

    On Sunday, the Israeli government delivered another blow, saying it would withhold more than $100 million in funds it transfers to the Palestinians each month.

    Instead, it said the money — taxes and customs duties that Israel collects on behalf of the Palestinians — would be used to pay off its debts to Israeli companies, including $200 million owed to the state-run Israel Electric Corp., government officials said.

    The monthly transfers are crucial for the cash-strapped Palestinian Authority to pay salaries to its tens of thousands of civil servants and security forces. Israel has taken similar measures in the past before eventually releasing the money.
    At the weekly meeting of his Cabinet, Netanyahu said the Palestinian statehood campaign was a “gross violation” of past agreements calling for disputes to be resolved through negotiations.

    “Accordingly, the government of Israel rejects the U.N General Assembly decision,” he told his Cabinet on Sunday. He also pledged to continue building settlements.

    “Today we are building, and we will continue to build in Jerusalem and in all areas that appear on Israel’s map of strategic interests.”

    Half a million settlers live in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. The ongoing growth of the settlements is at the heart of the current impasse in peace efforts.

    The Palestinians view continued settlement expansion as a show of bad faith and refuse to return to negotiations unless construction is frozen.

    Netanyahu has claimed a brief settlement slowdown in 2010 failed to jump-start negotiations, and he has refused calls for a new construction freeze.

    The Palestinians have signaled that they may use their upgraded status to join the International Criminal Court and pursue war crimes charges against Israel. But officials say any decision to seek membership in the ICC is likely months away.

    So they’re withholding the Palestinian’s own money, as well as building new settlements. And some of you keep insisting Israel always and only ever acts defensively. The Palestinian’s trump card is seeking entry to the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court. If Israel’s leaders really were acting in the best interests of the Israeli people, they would not be aggressively bulldozing the Palestinians into taking this last, drastic step, which would officially turn the nation of Israel into a pariah state guilty of war crimes. Which is of course precisely what the Israeli leadership are seeking to achieve as they take action after action after action designed to do nothing but denigrate and degrade the security of Israel. And many of you clap and cheer their leadership on, as they proceed to do precisely that, with every single move they make.

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  64. Reid (16,700 comments) says:

    Sorry, link to above: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gVVwcWzdTkrbQMXAd9vDAnmRrcGw?docId=1aaed73bef8e43f6861cfeb5ef937308

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  65. hinamanu (1,068 comments) says:

    The end of Britain as a nation state? Not on your life, Mr Van Rompuy

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1328579/Herman-Van-Rompuy-The-end-Britain-nation-state.html#ixzz2DwiL4xAR

    The President of the European Council has ­finally revealed his true colours. ‘The time of the homogeneous nation state is over,’ declared Herman Van Rompuy in Berlin yesterday.

    According to Mr Van Rompuy, the idea that a country can survive alone is not merely an illusion: ‘It is a lie!’

    He has clearly never heard of the ­Battle of Britain.

    Mr Van Rompuy’s Berlin speech appears to be the first shot in a new campaign to speed the transfer of sovereignty to Brussels — a transfer that was briefly interrupted by the defeat of the European Constitution and the Lisbon Treaty in ­successive referendums.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1328579/Herman-Van-Rompuy-The-end-Britain-nation-state.html

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  66. hinamanu (1,068 comments) says:

    Insurrection against banker occupation

    Max Keiser is a world renowned economic commentator & presenter whilst George Galloway a highly respected member of British parliament; Jeff Angel is a British film maker currently based in London. Jeff has a long standing interest in both the financial markets and the geo- political landscape but his driving passion has, and always will be, film making. http://maxkeiser.com/ http://www.votegeorgegalloway.com/

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  67. Reid (16,700 comments) says:

    I posted above a very good vid about what one of the passengers learned out of the airplane which ditched into the Hudson in NY, and this is the tape of the air-traffic controller. Amazing professionalism.

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  68. James Stephenson (2,266 comments) says:

    According to Mr Van Rompuy, the idea that a country can survive alone is not merely an illusion: ‘It is a lie!’

    He has clearly never heard of the ­Battle of Britain

    He gets shiller and more ridiculous in direct proportion to the reality of Britain leaving. Your analogy is a good one too, since Britain’s trade with the comonwealth is growing as its trade with Europe declines, even taking into account the way the Europhiles skew those figures by including exports to the rest of the world that ship via Amsterdam.

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  69. Lance (2,713 comments) says:

    @Reid
    Now you have a legitimate complaint against Israel. Your logic is not twisted and a refreshing return to sanity (as long as Yoza and Luc stay away it might stay that way).
    I am well aware Israel will do anything to survive or reinforce it’s views. This may well cross the line and is worthy of criticism.

    However I can’t abide the drivel that was spewing forth recently about Israel being inhabited by white supremists, they don’t have the right to defend themselves against attack because they are stronger, they practice apartheid blaa blaa blaa.

    I was serious when I said that the Palestinians have been running shit tactics to gain support. They need to stop behaving like barbarians, applauding attacks on the USA, stop terrorists using their neighbourhoods and making westerners unwelcome (putting it mildly).
    If they managed to action these sort or ‘hearts and minds’ type tactics Israel would become increasingly isolated.

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  70. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    Looks like history repeats.

    Susan Rice lied about the bombing of a Kenyan embassy 14 years ago as well for the Administration, and now she’s lied again in almost the exact same circumstances in Benghazi.

    In the spring of 1998, Prudence Bushnell, the U.S. ambassador to Kenya, sent an emotional letter to Secretary of State Madeleine Albright begging for a more secure embassy in the face of mounting terrorist threats and a warning that she was the target of an assassination plot.

    The State Department had repeatedly denied her request, citing a lack of money. But that kind of response, she wrote Albright, was “endangering the lives of embassy personnel.”

    A matter of months later, on Aug. 7, 1998, the American embassies in Tanzania and Kenya were simultaneously attacked with car bombs. In Kenya, 12 American diplomats and more than 200 Africans were killed.

    As in Benghazi, requests for more security were denied, warnings were issued, prior incidents were ignored and Susan Rice went on TV to explain it all.

    Within 24 hours, Rice, then assistant secretary of state for African affairs, went on PBS as spokesperson for the administration — just as she was regarding Benghazi when she parroted the administration’s false narrative on five Sunday talk shows on Sept. 16, 2012, that Benghazi was caused by a flash mob enraged by an Internet video. Then, as now, she worked for a Clinton.

    Also then, as now, she went on TV to claim, falsely, that we “maintain a high degree of security at all of our embassies at all times” and that we “had no telephone warning or call of any sort like that, that might have alerted either embassy just prior to the blast.” There were plenty of warnings and our East African diplomats were begging for help as Ambassador Chris Stevens was in Benghazi.

    Eerie similarities between Benghazi and Nairobi are many. A review of the attacks showed the CIA repeatedly told State Department officials in Washington and in the Kenya embassy that there was an active terrorist cell in Kenya connected to Osama bin Laden, who masterminded the attack.

    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/113012-635391-rice-involved-in-1998-embassy-bombings.htm

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  71. Manolo (14,169 comments) says:

    hinamanu, just come clean. Ditch your nick and adopt the fitting one for a Dutch genius like yourself: trivialrev.
    Be honest, sister.

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  72. RF (1,488 comments) says:

    Fletch. 6.09pm

    How do you like your Rice cooked. I suspect she will be history once the groundswell of opinion hits the Obama admin.

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  73. Manolo (14,169 comments) says:

    Rice is expendable. The Messiah knows it and will flick her aside when the time comes.

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  74. Manolo (14,169 comments) says:

    And he continues to fleece the gullible: http://politicker.com/2012/12/obama-campaign-still-asking-for-contributions/

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  75. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    It must be really upsetting for the die hard birthers, etc when they realise that:
    1. Obama was re-elected despite the Benghazi ‘scandal’
    2. That said ‘scandal’ really doesn’t amount to anything

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  76. Scott Chris (6,178 comments) says:

    She didn’t lie Fletch, she was poorly briefed. End of story.

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  77. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    Oh get with the programme Scott, there’s a lot more to come on this one. You have to admit it’s nice to see poor old John McCain working himself into a lather about it all.

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  78. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    Scott Chris, then she lied on behalf of the Obama Administration, which is even worse.
    This is far worse than Watergate – at least no one died in Watergate. Obama had to know about this; in fact, reports are that he was watching it unfold in real time and did nothing. One of his Generals, General Ham, who wanted to defy orders and go to the rescue was allegedly told to stand down and relieved of command.

    The information I heard today was that General Ham as head of Africom received the same e-mails the White House received requesting help/support as the attack was taking place. General Ham immediately had a rapid response unit ready and communicated to the Pentagon that he had a unit ready. 

    General Ham then received the order to stand down. His response was to screw it, he was going to help anyhow. Within 30 seconds to a minute after making the move to respond, his second in command apprehended General Ham and told him that he was now relieved of his command. 

    The story continues that now General Rodiguez would take General Ham’s place as the head of Africom. 

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/robbins-report/2012/oct/28/general-losing-his-job-over-benghazi/

    They had people who could have saved those in the embassy, but they let them die.

    People died: Obama lied.

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  79. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    Repeating your invented meme will not make it any more true.

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  80. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    Yes, Fletch still spends way too much time on Obama hating echochambers.
    Reality is just inaccessible to him.

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  81. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    eszett, reality?
    The reality is that the U.S is circling the bowl, soon to be flushed down the toilet of economic debt and instability, while Obama wants to raise taxes (his only idea), which won’t do a blind bit of good in the long run. The U.S just voted itself into the next recession (or maybe depression).

    Tell me how the above differs from your “reality”?

    Herman Cain put it quite well in a piece today –

    President Obama won the popular vote by 50.6 percent. OK, those of you that voted for him, you won. But you did not win the lottery. Here’s what you won.

    You won a president who wants unlimited federal spending powers with no federal debt ceiling. Would you give unlimited credit to a person who has maxed out all of their credit cards? If you say yes, then respectfully, you are a fool.

    You won a president who is asking Congress to spend an additional $50 billion for unidentified projects. This would of course be the same Congress that has not passed a budget since 2009. Do you run your finances without a budget, or at least some idea of how you are going to make ends met? Well, you probably don’t.

    You won a president who wants to raise taxes by $1.6 trillion over 10 years, while telling you that it will help reduce the deficit. Do the math folks. That’s not true. It would raise minimal revenue and cause a big decrease in employment and the creation of new jobs. All you have to do is to look at the real history of tax increases. But you see, President Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi know you don’t know the history, and they figure you are too gullible to learn.

    Obama voters, you won a president who is still campaigning, so he can keep using the lapdog mainstream media to tell you what he wants you to believe instead of telling you the truth. Strip away your preconceived notions about media channels that Obama told you not to watch, and you just might learn something.

    You also won a coming fiscal cliff disaster, because Obama knows he can let it happen and you will agree with him that it’s all the fault of the Republicans. You drank the Kool-Aid for four years, so he expects you to just keep on drinking to the very last drop.

    Except, the very last drop this time will mean a lot of economic pain and suffering for a lot of families, namely, no jobs! It will mean that our nation’s credit rating will most likely be downgraded again. It will also mean that gas prices will go back up and stay up, and that federal spending will continue to get bigger, while the size of our economy gets smaller.

    The very last drop will also mean more turmoil in the rest of the world, because of the continued loss of respect for America’s economic and military strength, due to this president’s inability to lead decisively and forcefully.

    Obama voters, you won! But do you like the prize? Read this commentary again in two years and let me know. God willing, I will still be here writing, on the radio and TV explaining what I have been saying for the last four years.

    Maybe some of you will wake up.

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  82. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    Quoting Herman Cain at length will not improve readers’ opinions of your sanity. Just saying.

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  83. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    mm, well point out where he is wrong then, just for arguments sake. If you can…

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  84. mikenmild (12,376 comments) says:

    Is it true that his economic ideas came from playing SimCity? Fun as it is to make fun of poor Herman, why don’t we just wait and see which of the unpalatable options he supports when congress deals with that fiscal cliff?

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  85. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    Obama won’t let them deal with it, unless it’s on his terms, it seems.
    He feels that somehow, because he won, that now everyone must roll over and do things his way.

    As Boehner says –

    “They won the election,” Boehner said. “They must have forgotten that Republicans continue to hold a majority in the House…The president’s idea of a negotiation is roll over and do what I ask.”

    http://www.mrctv.org/videos/boehner-presidents-idea-negotiation-roll-over-and-do-what-i-ask

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  86. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    I see Collins has taken a leaf out of the green party book, and is now searching for a second professional opinion on David Bain; one that comes to the “right# conclusion, I.e. the same as her preconceptions.

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  87. Viking2 (11,674 comments) says:

    Spy agency’s secrecy order one-in-10-year case
    By David Fisher
    5:30 AM Tuesday Dec 4, 2012

    The order signed to suppress the involvement of the GCSB in the Kim Dotcom case was the only one of its kind made in the last decade.

    The spy agency has stated that the certificate signed by Finance Minister Bill English as Acting Prime Minister was the only one found in “a thorough search of our files”.

    Kim Dotcom. Photo / Mark Mitchell
    Expand
    Kim Dotcom. Photo / Mark Mitchell

    The order signed to suppress the involvement of the GCSB in the Kim Dotcom case was the only one of its kind made in the last decade.

    The spy agency has stated that the certificate signed by Finance Minister Bill English as Acting Prime Minister was the only one found in “a thorough search of our files”.

    Mr English was asked by the GCSB to sign the “ministerial certificate” while Prime Minister John Key was overseas in August. The certificate said knowledge of the GCSB’s involvement in the Dotcom investigation would damage its ability to detect or prevent serious crime.

    The fact it was the only ministerial warrant in 10 years was discovered by the Green Party under the Official Information Act.

    “Why on earth did they get him to sign it? Was it because they already knew it was illegal?”
    ——————————————

    So did the ” High level official” come to bully thye NZ government into doing what the FBI & Co. want?
    Seems to me that Obama and his mates need to take the trimming knife to their wasteful spending. Given their financial cliff is looming and they will be overtaken by China as the worlds biggest economy by 2018 they should be sorting out their own house.

    Maybe the Nats. should wake up one morning and realise that they destroy the voters trust by behaving this way and that’s why despite doing lots of good things their results in the polls are beginning to show the trend that will continue. With Findlayson ( List MP.) dishing many voters, despite his seeming inablity or unwillingness to be voted into an electorate seat, constant disclosures of the sort referred to above, how long before all trust has gone.

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  88. Viking2 (11,674 comments) says:

    P.S. we probably shouldn’t forget that they are now attempting to backslide on the David Bain issue. Regardless of what people think a process has been followed BUT now the losers appear to want to hijack the results of that process based on thieir own personal opinions.

    How could any Kiwi accept that as other than a breech of faith and trust in our Justice/ Govt relationships.

    This is actually more serious than most other day to day Govt. issues.

    No doubt many will disagree, as I said, due to their own opinions of the Bain case but they should reflect on that as this is not about what they think but about the progresion of the Justice system, good and bad and it’s ultimate accountability to those persecuted rightly or wrongly.

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  89. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    There is No viable alternative on the right for liberals v2
    I can not see a recovery for act and some of us would rather eat worms than vote for conservonutters.

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  90. Nookin (3,562 comments) says:

    RRM
    “I see Collins has taken a leaf out of the green party book, and is now searching for a second professional opinion on David Bain; one that comes to the “right# conclusion, I.e. the same as her preconceptions.”

    Would you still be of that opinion if Fisher’s review discloses an significant error in Binnie’s report?

    Binnie was not appointed to adjudicate. He was appointed to advise. I would expect that advice to be scrutinised. Collins is the one who has to face the public and justify the decision — not Binnie

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