General Debate 7 December 2012

December 7th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
Tags:

176 Responses to “General Debate 7 December 2012”

  1. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    Last night irishBill escalated the civil war between Labour leadership and party activists at The Standard.

    Word is that a senior Labour MP (who will go unnamed) has been lobbying National Council to put rules in place for party members who participate in the blogosphere. It appears they don’t like the idea that members might voice their concerns about the way their party is run. I can only assume that there would have to be some kind of a process whereby members who broke these rules would face a loss of membership or some other form of censure.

    There’s been a predictable response, and suggestions who it might have been. Censoring red Alert is one thing, trying to control party member comment in social media is absurbly futile.

    A cynic might feel compelled to point out the hypocrisy of such a policy.

    And a cynic might be compelled to point out the glaring hypocrisy of The Standard complaining about the party trying to control the messengers. As IrishBill was posting his complaint about that last night lprent was banning another Shearer supporter.

    This is could be an interesting day as Labour Caucus versus The Standard escalates.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Michaels (1,233 comments) says:

    Shearer and Twyford going to help the cleanup at Hobsonville today…… Are we going to see another Goff/Mt Maunganui photo opportunity? Suit and a shovel on the beach….. Beautiful!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. barry (1,191 comments) says:

    I recall that a couple of guys by the name of Lenin and Marx had similar thoughts early last centuary – and they and their deluded supporters spent the next 75 years or so ruining people and countries as they tried to impose their ideas on entire populations.

    This sort of thing always ends in tears.

    And if nothing else ever comes out of the internet its ability to let everyone express their thoughts is very much welcome.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. graham (2,348 comments) says:

    Could I just point out some stats from your site, Pete.

    Number of posts by tag:
    184 Labour
    112 David Shearer
    81 Peter Dunne
    81 The Standard

    74 National
    70 United Future
    68 John Key
    .
    .
    28 Kiwiblog

    There are some who might say you are obsessed by “The Standard”, and the fact that it’s the third equal topic on your blog does rather support that. For a site such as Your NZ which purports to be all about “Reasonable”, you spend a lot of time writing about The Standard, which is a thoroughly unreasonable site.

    The Standard is, as I have said before, a really quite sad little corner of the Internet; a dark, miserable, depressing little site where bitter people go to rant and moan and groan. It’s not worth it, Pete.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Sofia (856 comments) says:

    In an in-house magazine in February, police liaison officer Detective Superintendent Mike Pannett said he had monitored activities connected to the Dotcom operation from an FBI command centre in the United States …
    Justice Winkelmann granted an application for the Government Communications Security Bureau to be added as a defendant in a continuing judicial review of the legality of the joint FBI-police raid.
    This allows Dotcom to pursue police and GCSB for damages.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8047463/Police-evidence-in-Dotcom-case-inconsistent

    If it transpires the raid was not a joint FBI / New Zealand Police operation, but a foreign FBI directed raid, will that increase or reduce New Zealand’s liability?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    graham, I don’t have to post about Whale or Kiwiblog as much because I can comment directly on these sites. As The Standard is the major left wing blog and I can’t comment there I use YourNZ to comment on it.

    BTW, tags aren’t an accurate indicator.

    The post by IrishBill, along with a lot of posts and comments lately, reveal a lot about Labour and a major internal battle. That’s significant in the world of politics. Whale Oil thinks so too.

    I don’t think the intent of Kiwiblog is to have a happy wee camp of like minded National orientated drones singing the same song in a circle. Political examination and comment requires looking at all aspects. In blogging that requires looking at and commenting on a cross section of blogs.

    I don’t try and tell you what you should or shouldn’t comment on. Maybe censorship of political comment doesn’t interest you elsewhere (you seem to be trying it on here) but I think it’s a very important topic in the political blogosphere.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    “The Standard is, as I have said before, a really quite sad little corner of the Internet; a dark, miserable, depressing little site where bitter people go to rant and moan and groan. ”

    Exactly why he (PG) is drawn there.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. RRM (10,097 comments) says:

    Pete George:

    Labour’s whole foray into social media is pretty irretrievably firetrucked already.

    In Red Alert they have created the most blindly sycophantic echo chamber imaginable, where they can trot out any idea under the sun (though the more hard left the better) and the Traceys, Colonial Vipers et al will always cheer them on; and no naysayers, doubts or words of caution are tolerated… because it’s Labour, and Labour is a friend to the working man, and Labour Sticks it to the Bosses, and Labour Fights Tha Powaa, and Labour Labour Labour… :roll:

    And then they wonder why no-one votes for them.

    The Standard is even worse.

    If the Labour Party spent more time in the real world, and took less heed of nutters on the internet who want full-blown communism, maybe they will start doing better in the polls.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Manolo (14,161 comments) says:

    “Tolerance” in Qatar: http://www.climatedepot.com/a/18726/Fmr-Thatcher-advisor-Lord-Monckton-evicted-from-UN-climate-summit-after-challenging-global-warming–Escorted-from-the-hall-and-security-officers-stripped-him-of-his-UN-credentials

    Griff will approve.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    TrueblueNZ is, as I have said before, a really quite sad little corner of the Internet; a dark, miserable, depressing little site where bitter people go to rant and moan and groan. ”

    The “leader” of this site proudly deletes any post that is not a sycophantic arse lick.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    Griff, there are plenty of opportunities elsewhere for you to spout your confused infantile rubbish.

    Some bloggers make their mark as free to all comers, even the dumbest commie knuckle draggers and trolls around. And good on them if they so choose.

    TrueblueNZ is not one of those sites.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. RRM (10,097 comments) says:

    Griff –

    The difference is that no-one of any consequence reads TrueBlueNZ so it doesn’t matter what the author does or what the site’s 3 readers post up in the comments.

    Whereas The Standard does bring enough nutters together in one place that the political left seems to take some sort of a lead from the ideas that they see there. Heaven knows why. But it’s unfortunate and it’s one of the prime reasons the left opposition is in such a mess at the moment.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    There’s also something more sinister going on at The Standard. From Just how wrong can you get it?

    QOT

    Step 2: Assume you can really identify who a person is on the internet, especially on sites you have no control over.

    I’d dearly love to see the logistical planning involved. Sourcing the naughty comments, doxing the commenters’ handles, comparing to the membership list … but let’s be honest, the whole point of any policy change would clearly be to punish members whose identities are already well-documented (and who have been saying things said senior MP doesn’t like.)

    IrishBill

    There’s already a bit of that kind of thing going on. It’s why I won’t comment on Red Alert.

    Colonial Viper

    I have personally witnessed some of the backstory to this post. And it is a damn nasty and personal business behind the scenes. If anything, IB has sugarcoated the facts of the situation with his restraint (that’s not a criticism btw).

    And on Open Mic:

    Colonial Viper

    Yes kind Lefty souls, I’m bugging out too, returning at some future date (hopefully not too far away). IB has highlighted some reasons why, and the stuff he is talking about isn’t kidding around. The miserable and ill-conceived pressure they are putting on Cunliffe and his supporters in caucus, well they are now turning that on to ordinary party members as well. Organisations which find themselves in this state, well what more do I need to say.

    Colonial Viper has probably been the most regular and prolific commenter at TS.

    And maybe not coincidentally:

    millsy

    This will be my last post on the Standard (and probably any other blog) for a while at least – not too sure when Ill be able to post again, but it wont be until well into the New Year at least (perhaps when everthing has settled down).

    That’s quite worrying (if you support the concept of free speech).

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. Manolo (14,161 comments) says:

    Sorry P.G, but I do not come to KB to read the inintelligible rubbish spouted in the The sub-Standard latrine.
    Please spare me the pain.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    “That’s quite worrying (if you support the concept of free speech).”

    Oh gawd. “Free speech”, as imperfectly as you apply the concept in this case, is expressly forbidden by Labour party rules. And it is not any kind of unusual event in political parties. People who sign up to parties agree to abide by these rules. In reality its nothing to do with free speech.

    You Pete are just another pretentious knuckle dragger who wrongly references the concept in your complete and utter confusion about what it really means.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. graham (2,348 comments) says:

    Nooo, maybe you should reread what I wrote. I’m not trying to censor what you say or dictate what you can or can’t comment on. How the hell could I? This isn’t my blog, nor is Your NZ.

    I’m merely pointing out the facts. You spend a lot of time commenting on The Standard. You have a very good feel for the moods, the trends, the machinations, the commenters, and the authors, so you obviously spend a considerable amount of time and energy following it closely. As I said, it’s a depressing site, and spending so much time and energy following it will inevitably have a negative effect on you. I’m simply trying to warn you that I don’t think any good will come out of it. If a teenage girl spent an inordinate amount of time frequenting websites about anorexia, pro-ana and thin-spiration websites – “for research” – I’d be warning her that no good will come of such things.

    But hey, you don’t have to listen to me. It doesn’t worry me that much, it’s not like I spend a lot of time on Kiwiblog, I just pop in occasionally. So all the reminders of just how depressing The Standard is won’t affect me much at all. Others who frequent Kiwiblog more regularly may feel differently. I just think you could put your time and energy to better use, that’s all. But, your life.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. adamsmith1922 (724 comments) says:

    I am forced to wonder is Pete George a real person or a member of The Standard team attempting to propagate their views on Kiwiblog. He appears unable to comment without mentioning The Standard.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. RightNow (7,014 comments) says:

    Pete is real: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCJ0Ibo46JM

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. hj (7,139 comments) says:

    Good Idea:

    “Amsterdam has earned a global reputation as an enlightened city with a high quality of life. Well what if the price for that quality of life was that your bothersome neighbors were forcibly relocated to “scum villages” on the outskirts of town?
    Caitlin Dewey dissects several news reports on controversial (to say the least) plans by Amsterdam’s officials to relocate trouble-making neighbors to camps of “container homes” on the outskirts of the city where they will be provided only with basic services while being monitored by police or social workers.”
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/04/amsterdam-plans-to-relocate-troublemakers-to-scum-villages/?Post_generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. hj (7,139 comments) says:

    Pooh Pooh Iprent!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. wreck1080 (3,999 comments) says:

    There you go…as I said yesterday….the new RB Governor Wheeler is the enemy of exporters

    “The RBNZ gave the market the green light to keep buying the kiwi and that’s what they’ve done,” said Mike Jones, currency strategist at Bank of New Zealand in Wellington.”

    Will be fun to watch to watch him squirm as more exporters fold.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Megatron (190 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8047836/Only-murder-worse-sex-offender-told

    And he only gets a five year jail sentence…..bet he will be out in three.
    Pathetic.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Megatron (190 comments) says:

    Tame Iti tweets that the band Six 60 performed at Waikeria and that all the inmates were buzzing. Shows a photo of him taken with the band.
    FFS…A holiday camp for cuzzy bros paid for by the taxpayer.
    No wonder the jails are full of freeloading scum.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. hmmokrightitis (1,596 comments) says:

    The poor wee dears at the hate blog don’t understand irony. Up in arms over potential censorship of their ability to speak freely. Whilst deleting and banning anyone who doesn’t worship at the altar. The gob smacking hypocrisy is right up there with Ms Dim and her corrupt practices. But then it’s the left, why do I expect anything different.

    Oh and red, yes, you read that right. Your deranged rantings about Marxists are beyond hilarious.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    @graham: Agree. If I want to read the jaundiced views at the Stranded, I’ll go there. But I don’t, so I don’t.

    But TPYM [the person you mentioned] is obsessed with cutting and pasting crap from the Stranded and posting it here…. he hasn’t realised that, if there was something really interesting, our host would most likely comment on it (as he has in the past – complete with some insightful observations).

    And I’m completely topped up with the same person’s running commentary / references to his battle with the moderator(s) at the Stranded and his subsequent banning from their site.

    In fact, if I knew his postal address, I’d send him 50c so he can ring up someone who cares….

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Longknives (4,949 comments) says:

    Are you allowed to have Twitter accounts and the like when you are in Prison? That seems a little ridiculous…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. RRM (10,097 comments) says:

    Megatron – yes he might have got six for murder. :-(

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. Keeping Stock (9,371 comments) says:

    Ross Taylor is walking away from the Black Caps, and who can blame him? The NZC media conference at 11.30am could be a doozy!

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/breaking-news-from-new-zealand-cricket.html

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    lol, poor Bob Dole

    http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/421868/december-05-2012/politicos—paranoid-fantasies

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    Friday Funny:

    A parody of Nickelback’s Photograph song, taking the piss out of people who photograph everything and upload it to their Facebook or Instagram accounts. I have people on my Facebook like this :D

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Big deal…sodomite takes some leave with “his man”..must be a slow news day..

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv/8049161/Tamati-Coffey-taking-sabbatical

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    another peaceful native goes to jail…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8046162/Twelve-year-sentence-for-tourists-murder

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    @Keeping Stock: If it pans out the way you suggest, then NZC can only blame themselves. It was commonly known that there were two factions within the BlackCaps and that McCullum / Hesson (and Fleming in the background) were pushing for a change in Captain. Hesson even asked Taylor to step aside from the captaincy whilst they were in Sri Lanka! The team was divided. Martin Guptill admitted as much when he returned from the tour.

    ‘Player power’ has been festering for a while now within NZ cricket. The fact it has been allowed to escalate is the fault of NZC management – the cracks widened further when they allowed John Wright to go. A man good enough to get the best from a star studded Indian team was not kept on for the NZ side. Because some of the players decided he was too tough’ on them, they bleated long and hard and NZC backed them and not Wright. And now we see a faction in the side promote one player over the Captain. And NZC buckles again.

    And if Taylor walks as you suggest, I think the wrong person is staring at the end of the plank. :(

    [Edit: Not sure why this was deleted – I’m using a new gadget and must have hit the wrong button] 8O

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. Elaycee (4,425 comments) says:

    @KS: Yup… Just been announced that Taylor has opted out as you suggested.

    PS: Vettori was also part of the faction pushing for McCullum to replace Taylor. Its a pity he didn’t display the same levels of loyalty he received when he was Captain himself.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. thedavincimode (6,890 comments) says:

    “The Standard is, as I have said before, a really quite sad little corner of the Internet; a dark, miserable, depressing little site where bitter people go to rant and moan and groan. ”

    Exactly why he (PG) is drawn there.

    The own goals keep coming. Too funny.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. kowtow (8,928 comments) says:

    12 years for a cowardly brutal murder! Not good enough. Do the courts want more of this? That is not a deterrent and it is certainly not justice.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. hmmokrightitis (1,596 comments) says:

    Well done NZC. You bunch of complete morons. Piss up, brewery. FFS. :(

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    I wonder if we will head down this road? Scary.

    Hat tip CrusaderRabbit

    http://falfn.com/CrusaderRabbit/?p=15669

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. kowtow (8,928 comments) says:

    Coffee and TVNZ and pushing the marriage destruction agenda.

    TVNZ is being used as a platform to push a narrow agenda. Way outside it’s charter. Sainsbury did a big interview with another one on his submission to parliament, Matty McLean.

    Good riddance to Sainsbury and I hope the rest of TVNZ goes down the gurgler too.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    Yes, strange how even though the percentage of homosexuals in the country is in the 2%-3% range, they seem overly represented on our screens.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    Not too mention that they are way overrepresented in your mind, Fletch.
    Hardly a days goes by without you thinking about them and what they do.

    Next to hating Obama, it’s your favourite pasttime it seems.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people are better at managing their money than the average American, new research shows.

    They earn more, save more, have less debt and are better prepared for retirement, according to a Prudential survey of more than 1,000 LGBT respondents.

    Respondents not only reported significantly higher annual incomes — $61,500 compared with the national median of $50,054 — but they also carried about $4,000 less in debt than the average American and had $6,000 more in household savings. They were even slightly more likely to have jobs in the first place, with an unemployment rate of 7% versus the national rate of 7.9%, Prudential found.

    A combination of factors play into this, said Michele Meyer-Shipp, chief diversity officer at Prudential. To start, LGBT individuals are generally well-educated, with more than half of respondents receiving at least a bachelor’s degree, and tend to live in higher-income areas, she said.

    http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/06/pf/gay-money/index.html?hpt=hp_bn1

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    Not too mention that they are way overrepresented in your mind, Fletch.
    Hardly a days goes by without you thinking about them and what they do.

    Next to hating Obama, it’s your favourite pasttime it seems.

    eszett, um, no you’re wrong.

    I only think about the issue when the issue is shoved in my face, which is about every second day; if not by Coffee on Breakfast and Sainsbury, then by pro-gay-marriage posts by DPF. And so I respond.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. graham (2,348 comments) says:

    kowtow and Fletch, maybe you need to think about exactly what it is you object to.

    I personally do not approve of the Marriage Amendment Bill. Although I don’t think two men or two women getting married will threaten my own marriage, it is redefining marriage – and we were assured that when the Civil Union bill was passed, this would make it totally unnecessary to redefine marriage. Eight years later, it is obvious we were lied to. More importantly, in another few years we will see a strong push for gay couples being allowed to adopt children – and that is something I object to.

    But all of that is quite different to objecting to homosexual people. And Fletch, you are coming across as being ever so slightly homophobic. I might object to gay marriage, but does that mean I think gays shouldn’t be allowed to be on TV presenting the news? Of course not.

    Are we going to start making gays ride down the back of the bus? Eat at segregated restaurants?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    Shoving it your face?
    There is an off button on your TV, you know. And no one forces to read the post here.
    No-one’s shoving anything into your face but you yourself.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    “homophobic” is a made up word used by uneducated liberals who cannot construct rational arguments.

    And Fletch is quite correct, the damn queers just have to keep insinuating themselves into every facet of our lives.

    Sodomise away shirtlifters, but STFU about it if you don’t mind.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    And Fletch, you are coming across as being ever so slightly homophobic.

    You mean, the same way he is coming across as being ever so slightly against Obama?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. Megatron (190 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8049432/Jail-tough-for-red-headed-white-boy

    Poor diddums finds jail tough….so??
    Oh dear, how sad, never mind.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    Weihana, don’t know if that is true or not, but they are also more likely to suffer from depression, substance abuse, disease and self harming and suicide. I can’t see that having more money makes up for that.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    I suspect Fletch secretly likes the idea of Coffee shoving things in his face. :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    “You mean, the same way he is coming across as being ever so slightly against Obama?”

    Well, why don’t you pass a fucking law against it loser?

    FFS!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. kowtow (8,928 comments) says:

    graham

    No problem with homosexuals. Big problem with the state and media organisations pushing an agenda.

    eggshells and the off button. I know there’s an off button,I wish you had one.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    No one forces you to read anything here, kowtow.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    “I suspect Fletch secretly likes the idea of Coffee shoving things in his face.”

    Pathetic and cowardly.

    I suspect you might like touching little boys.

    Hows that?

    Smears are so easy and its something you liberal cowards are always so good at.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Coffee’s overrated anyway..good riddance to the arse bandit..

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    And what’s that “agenda” again? To “redefine” a word… oh my gosh and my golly! The end is nigh! The end is nigh!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    But all of that is quite different to objecting to homosexual people. And Fletch, you are coming across as being ever so slightly homophobic. I might object to gay marriage, but does that mean I think gays shouldn’t be allowed to be on TV presenting the news? Of course not.

    Graham, what exactly is “homophobia”? A hate of homosexuals? A fear? I don’t hate or fear homosexuals, and it might surprise you to know that it doesn’t bother me, gays presenting the news etc. In fact I often work with three gay guys who I get along with really well. What bothers me is when the TV presenting role is used as a position from which to proselytize and to promote their lifestyles. You have to ask yourself – why are they over-represented on TV?

    We’ve seen it happen with Alison Mau, Tamati, and Matty McLean. All have had airtime given to them to promote their cause.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I DON’T CARE what gays do in their own bedroom in their own time. It’s up to them. I don’t dislike or hate them. What I do disagree with is their wanting the rest of the country to give their approval to their lifestyle and to change the laws regarding same.

    As one blogger put it –

    You can live as you want, engage in whatever sort of contracts you like, conduct any sort of ceremonies you please. But there is one thing you cannot have, and it is the one thing you seek through this radical political agenda, these hysterical protests and complaints about Christians: our approval. It cannot possibly be about anything else, because it is really the only thing you are missing. You want to live in a world in which everyone regards what you do and how you live not only as normal, but as a positive good. And your attempts to legalize “gay marriage” are about this and this alone. It is not about “equal rights” that you already possess, it is not about the freedom to openly identify as gay, which you already have. It is about using the power of the state to force society to recognize your living arrangements and lifestyle choices as legitimate.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (1,517) Says:
    December 7th, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    “I suspect Fletch secretly likes the idea of Coffee shoving things in his face.”

    Pathetic and cowardly.

    I suspect you might like touching little boys.

    Hows that?

    How is it? Well it appears that you draw an equivalence regarding sex between adults and sex with children. Not very good at all it seems :P

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Fletch,

    They aren’t seeking your approval. You flatter yourself by thinking your opinions actually matter. What matters is discrimination from the state and that is the target of this “agenda”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    Weihana, not my approval per se. The approval and acceptance of society, that their lifestyles are as legitimate and as equal to marriage etc.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. kowtow (8,928 comments) says:

    eggshells says

    no one forces you to read anything here.

    “snap”

    weihaha.If you don’t believe there’s an agenda that’s fine. And no the end of the world is not nigh,but our civilisation is definitly going down the sewer.It does happen.Civilisations do end. One’s that grow fat,indulged,indigent,unprepared to fight for their values.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. Reid (16,681 comments) says:

    And what’s that “agenda” again? To “redefine” a word… oh my gosh and my golly! The end is nigh! The end is nigh!

    Weihana like most of the people who support gay marriage you don’t get it. Yes it is about the use of a single word, and that’s clearly the reason for the global movement across all western democracies.

    But it’s why all the gay activists have decided simultaneously to mobilise all the profoundly useful idiots like you across all of the western democracies, that none of you useful idiots understand. You just don’t get it, do you. And yet, here is a global movement across all the western democracies simultaneously not asking, but demanding, the right to use a single word.

    Doesn’t this FACT strike any of you useful idiots as peculiar? Or in your bizarro world, does this sort of thing happen all the time, it’s nothing unusual, nothing to see here. Is that what you fools think? That it’s not unusual at all, to have this global movement spring up, over a single word?

    Why do you fools think this is happening? Because it is happening, isn’t it. This is precisely what is playing out, in the world, right now. Can any of you useful idiots answer that? I know why, but do you?

    BTW, this propaganda happens all the time. Here’s a racism example from Shortland Street. Racism against whites that is.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Fletch,

    “The approval and acceptance of society”

    Which means what exactly?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    “Well it appears that you draw an equivalence regarding sex between adults and sex with children.”

    Had no idea you were homosexual.

    Good gawd, what with so many queers hanging out here (Weihana, Davinci, Nasska, Eszett, Chutneychute Guy, for just a few) Kiwiblog could double as GayNZ.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    What matters is discrimination from the state and that is the target of this “agenda”.

    “Discriminate” is also another word for Discern or Distinguish.

    The State has every right to discriminate and should. It discriminates against those wanting more than one spouse. It discriminates against those wanting to marry an under age person. It discriminates against those wanting to marry a family member or a cousin. It discriminates against those wanting to marry an dog.

    And I believe it is right to discriminates against same sex couples wanting to marry, and for very good reasons; ultimately, for the good of society as a whole.

    If same-sex couples are allowed to marry, the State will still be discriminating against the other groups I’ve mentioned – those wanting to marry more than one person etc… What about them?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    One’s that grow fat,indulged,indigent,unprepared to fight for their values.

    Well, kowtow, rest assured, that’s exactly what is happening here. People fighting for values. Such as inclusion, tolerance, freedom, love, family.

    Civilisation is safe.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    eszett, except your “tolerance” is the repressive tolerance of a Liberal that is totally for being tolerant of other peoples values, except those with whom you disagree. As for “family”, your views are totally against the family.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Doesn’t this FACT strike any of you useful idiots as peculiar?

    Not at all when the use of the word is tied to one’s legal status and standing. What is bizarro are nutjobs which populate forums like this who think that in the context of this debate that it’s apropos to discuss the possible end of civilization…. in earnest.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    “Such as inclusion, tolerance, freedom, love, family.”

    Insufferable Obama propaganda right here on Kiwiblog.

    Megaphoning for the biggest statist ever.

    FFS give it a rest you shallow loser.

    (Get off anyway, isn’t it time for Jerry Springer to start?)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. Reid (16,681 comments) says:

    So Weihana name another global movement that’s simultaneously sprung up across all western democracies over the use by a group of a single word. Go on.

    And if you’re going to respond at all, pray answer my question: why are they doing this? Why this global movement, over the use of a single word?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    This is from a 47 year old essay by liberal Herbert Marcuse, one of the founders of Political Correctness or Critical Theory –

    “Liberating tolerance, then, would mean intolerance against movements from the Right and toleration of movements from the Left. As to the scope of this tolerance and intolerance: … it would extend to the stage of action as well as of discussion and propaganda, of deed as well as of word.”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    The labour caucus must be absolutely delighted to know that New Zealand Cricket is more disfunctional than they are, party time tonight.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,552) Says:
    December 7th, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    eszett, except your “tolerance” is the repressive tolerance of a Liberal that is totally for being tolerant of other peoples values, except those with whom you disagree. As for “family”, your views are totally against the family.

    Fletch, you don’t even know what “repressive tolerance” means, it’s just a soundbite you picked up somewhere. Otherwise you would be bring it up in this context, as it is nonsensical.

    And it is highly ironic, as you are the one who wants to force your values onto other people. No one takes your values away, no one tells you how you should live, who you should marry and how to organise your family.

    Yet you are the one here saying, no, you two can’t marry because you are of the same sex, you two can’t be a family, you two can’t marry, because you are doing something that doesn’t agree with my values.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. kowtow (8,928 comments) says:

    eggshells says people fighting for values.

    Eggzactly. But they are not the values that made the Christian, Anglo Saxon civilisation the greatest ever seen. The values of hard work,thrift,self sacrifice,consideration of other,God ,King and country.

    Now it’s me,me ,me.Spend,debt,drugs,selfishness,indulgence,multiculturalism,relativism,entitlement, etc

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    Maybe we should start agitating for the re-classification of homosexuality as a mental disease, as it was so classified way back in the 1950’s.

    Then the sensitive little flower Eszett and his boy/girlfriends would really have something to complain about.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. kowtow (8,928 comments) says:

    If weihaha thinks civilisations don’t end ,he is no student of the Old Testament.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (1,519) Says:
    December 7th, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    “Such as inclusion, tolerance, freedom, love, family.”

    Insufferable Obama propaganda right here on Kiwiblog.

    Yes, red, it is quite clear that none of these words mean anything to you.
    Your just one sad old miserable bastard, constantly complaining about how mean and stupid the world is.

    What a wasted life.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    eszett, name me one civilisation that practised the “values” you esteem that is still standing (as it was then) and hasn’t destroyed itself.
    In truth, the things you talk about, such as legalized sodomy, aren’t values, but sexual perversities that other cultures and civilisations adopted before they fell over.

    I don’t mean to say that they fell because of these perversities, but perhaps these practices were an outward sign.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    Funny Eszett that you and your like queer friends never see the irony apparent in the hate you project towards anyone who disagrees with your “tolerant” liberal political agenda.

    You’re just sad brain damaged irrational frauds.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. hinamanu (1,068 comments) says:

    Ron Paul final address to congress made into a film broken down to document his comments on the state of America today

    He got sixty whole minutes.

    The New York Times, LA Times, Fox News and many others all took notice of his farewell address, something that doesn’t normally happen with a Congressman, as he laid out the fork in the road America has come to: liberty or tyranny.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    In truth, the things you talk about, such as legalized sodomy, aren’t values, but sexual perversities that other cultures and civilisations adopted before they fell over.

    Nonsense, Fletch, and you know it.

    Again, you just prove that you just think homosexuality is yucky (hence you calling it a “perversity”) and that’s why you hate it and oppose it. Nothing more and nothing less.
    Your whole talk about values and civilisations is just a smokescreen you set up to try and rationalise something that you know there is no rationale for.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    “Again, you just prove that you just think homosexuality is yucky (hence you calling it a “perversity”) and that’s why you hate it and oppose it. ”

    So fucking what?

    In a FREE country people are FREE to think whatever they like.

    Your Orwellian/totalitarian state and mainstream media promoted attempts to control speech and thought are far more odious than any such views that Fletch might hold, and that are probably only natural anyway.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    The hate I project, red? Are you really that precious?

    So you can dish out insults by the dozen here, but you can’t take any yourself.
    A sad coward indeed.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    eszett, let me ask you then –

    Do you think that sexual intercourse (coitus) and sodomy are the same? Are they equal in value and purpose? Are they even the same scientifically?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    So fucking what?

    In a FREE country people are FREE to think whatever they like.

    Your Orwellian/totalitarian attempts to control speech and thought a far more odious than any such views that Fletch might hold, and that are probably only natural anyway.

    lol, red, you are funny at times.

    So you and kowtow and Fletch are free to say whatever you want, but no one is allowed to respond?
    And you say I am attempting to control speech?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    eszett#

    “….People fighting for values. Such as inclusion, tolerance, freedom, love, family…..”

    Tolerance isn’t a value – it’s giving in – and/or giving up!

    Love isn’t a value – it’s an emotion!

    Define ‘family’ for us!…..Natural mum, dad and siblings?

    Inclusion – Inclusive of what? Everything? – Everything would then have no value as everything would be valued exactly the same!

    Freedom – to have no values at all…..just like ezett! :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    “And you say I am attempting to control speech?”

    Pardon me, I mistook the hate and venom you customarily express here towards myself and others you disagree with for hate and venom.

    I can see now its really just an expression of your respect for issues such as “love and inclusiveness”.

    You pathetic hypocrite.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    sodomy

    Fletch is totally focused on men having bum sex together
    Day after day of bum sex focused thinking…….
    If most male think about homosexual sex they think of woman
    Nom nom nom :grin:

    Why Fletch? Why the focus on bum sex?
    Would you like to tell us what happened ?
    They take the bad priests to court now.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    Fletch#

    Sodomy? We are not born to do that – none of us are. No one is designed to have sodomy! :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. RRM (10,097 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,555) Says:

    let me ask you then –

    Do you think that sexual intercourse (coitus) and sodomy are the same? Are they equal in value and purpose? Are they even the same scientifically?

    Not equal.

    Confucius say: when front entrance blocked with rags, try around the back… :-)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  91. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    The human anus is not part of human sexuality – never has been and never will be! :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  92. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,555) Says:
    December 7th, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    eszett, let me ask you then –

    Do you think that sexual intercourse (coitus) and sodomy are the same? Are they equal in value and purpose? Are they even the same scientifically?

    What sort of a question is that, Fletch? Do you know that little about human sexuality that you ask these things? Why limit it to these to sexual acts, are these the only two that you know.

    What about oral sex and sexual intercourse? Are they the same in value and purpose? Masturbation? Handjobs? Or are these all sexual perversions?

    And what about lesbians then? They don’t engage in anal sex? They are okay with you? And gay men that don’t engage in anal sex, they are also okay? What about straight couples having anal sex?

    This only goes to show that you have a fixation and obsession about anal sex (fair enough, no one forces you to like it) and you try and define homosexuality based on this.

    But to answer you question, yes, when it comes to human sexuality intercourse, oral sex, hand jobs, foot jobs, tittiefucks, anal intercourse and whatever else rocks your boat are all equal in “value and purpose”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  93. Pete George (23,793 comments) says:

    No one is designed to have sodomy!

    Then shouldn’t they have designed a square arsehole? Or at least increased the separation a bit?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  94. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    Harriet (807) Says:
    December 7th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    The human anus is not part of human sexuality – never has been and never will be!

    What about the human mouth, Harriet?
    And what about hands?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  95. Reid (16,681 comments) says:

    This is what the useful idiots are participating in.

    …if all you do is listen to the mainstream media, you would be tempted to think that we are the smartest, most moral, most “enlightened” generation in all of human history. Unfortunately, that is most definitely not the case. Society is literally coming apart at the seams right in front of our eyes. “Normal” crimes are not enough for many criminals these days.

    And because they’re idiots, they have no idea what they’re doing. Instead, the monstrous morons really think their position is: “the smartest, most moral, most enlightened.” What a bunch of utter fools.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  96. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    kowtow (3,329) Says:
    December 7th, 2012 at 1:08 pm

    If weihaha thinks civilisations don’t end ,he is no student of the Old Testament.

    They do end. Just not because one guy sticks his dick in another guys bum.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  97. hinamanu (1,068 comments) says:

    Where NOT to be when the DOLLAR COLLAPSE happens (USD, Fiat Money, Econo

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  98. RRM (10,097 comments) says:

    Harriet (807) Says:
    December 7th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    The human anus is not part of human sexuality – never has been and never will be! :cool:

    :lol: I have two words for you:

    prolapsed.net

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  99. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Harriet (807) Says:
    December 7th, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    The human anus is not part of human sexuality – never has been and never will be! :cool:

    A million pornographic websites say otherwise.

    http://www.redtube.com/redtube/anal

    Enjoy!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  100. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Fletch,

    Do you think that sexual intercourse (coitus)…

    I wasn’t aware Sheldon Cooper was joining us today…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  101. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    eszett, I’m not talking about fetishes or any kind of “jobs”.
    As I said, I was talking about coitus, and whether these other stimulations are equal in value and purpose.
    I would say not.

    Aristotle had a form of logic he called Teleology – a belief in empirical observation and logical deduction which assumes that all things have a purpose and that the purpose of each thing can be discerned from its design and function. Anything that deviates from that design and function is therefore not normal.

    See what I did there?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  102. Keeping Stock (9,371 comments) says:

    My wife is generally right on the money. And she said to me this morning “How come Tamati Coffey is talking about his “civil union partner” now, when he did the whole “marriage” thing in the women’s magazines? I think he’s trying score points.”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  103. Scott Chris (6,178 comments) says:

    How’s that bomb making coming along Redbaiter?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  104. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,556) Says:
    December 7th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    eszett, I’m not talking about fetishes or any kind of “jobs”.
    As I said, I was talking about coitus, and whether these other stimulations are equal in value and purpose.
    I would say not.

    Aristotle had a form of logic he called Teleology – a belief in empirical observation and logical deduction which assumes that all things have a purpose and that the purpose of each thing can be discerned from its design and function. Anything that deviates from that design and function is therefore not normal.

    The human body was not designed. While teleological language can be used to describe evolution, it is not necessary and even misleading. Whilst certain developments may serve an evolutionary function, evolution itself does not have a purpose per se.

    So in terms of function the anus and the reproductive organs are obviously not equal, at least not intrinsically. But whether “stimulations” (lmao) of each are equal in “value” is a subjective determination. In other words: whatever floats your boat.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  105. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    Weihana, yet still…
    As Harriet points out – the anus is not a sexual organ.
    Two men or two women can try and lego™ it with any of the available orifices and still will not be performing sexual intercourse. What you have will be a cruel imitation; a counterfeit; a parody of real life-giving coitus that can result in a new son or daughter.

    It is this sexual contact (coitus), and that of the resulting children that marriage is built around and serves.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  106. hmmokrightitis (1,596 comments) says:

    Exactly. Its only allowed if you lie together in the shape of the cross. THEN its OK :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  107. Longknives (4,949 comments) says:

    What is this ‘Red Tube’ you speak of Weihana?…I have no knowledge of such sites……

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  108. Longknives (4,949 comments) says:

    Does anyone else wonder how in the hell we still have a Tourism industry??

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10852561

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  109. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Longknives,

    Still casually ducking behind the curtain at United Video eh? :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  110. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    Ezett#

    “…What about the human mouth, Harriet?…And what about hands?…”

    Like the anus, they are not designed for sexuality either.

    Sodomy is a human construct and has morphed into the religion of homosexuality. :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  111. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    Pete George#

    “No one is designed to have sodomy!”…..”Then shouldn’t they have designed a square arsehole? Or at least increased the separation a bit?”

    I can see how animals could get confused between an anus and a vagina – but 4% of the human population?

    C’mon Pete…..you know sodomy is not ‘natural’ for humans to partake in….as our sexual organs are designed to complement eachother.

    Ezettt thinks that the mouth is a sexual organ – now that is an idiot Pete! :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  112. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    Gays don’t even compliment each other – so how the fuck would they really understand sexuality! :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  113. hmmokrightitis (1,596 comments) says:

    Nah, Im with Ezett on this one Harriet, count me in for mouth as well. Reminds me, must head home to the wife soon :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  114. Weihana (4,620 comments) says:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  115. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    Gays don’t even compliment each other – so how the fuck would they really understand sexuality!

    Oh, I wouldn’t say that. Plenty of gay folk say very nice things about each other.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  116. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    Fletch#

    “…..Aristotle had a form of logic he called Teleology – a belief in empirical observation and logical deduction which assumes that all things have a purpose and that the purpose of each thing can be discerned from its design and function. Anything that deviates from that design and function is therefore not normal….”

    That’s an absolute truth as the natural fit to the human wrist is the human hand, and the natural fit to the human vagina is the human penis, and the natural fit to the human anus is excrement! Only animals could ever get confused about that!

    The natural fit to the human head for 96% of the poulation is the human brain! :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  117. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    the natural fit to the human vagina is the human penis

    That does tend to depend on the particular humans in question.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  118. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    Actually, that raises a bit of a question, Harriet. What would God’s purpose be in creating such a variety of sizes of vaginas and penises? Should a physically incompatible different-sex couple consider themselves to be missing God’s hint by pursuing a relationship when they should rather be finding a more complementarily bodied partner?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  119. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,557) Says:
    December 7th, 2012 at 2:33 pm

    eszett, I’m not talking about fetishes or any kind of “jobs”.
    As I said, I was talking about coitus, and whether these other stimulations are equal in value and purpose.
    I would say not.

    Why? Just because you say so?

    They are sexual acts, the same way as intercourse is a sexual act. It’s no different. Human sexuality is way more than just reproduction, 99% of sexual intercourse is not intended for reproduction.

    Here’s what you are trying to do, Fletch. You despise homosexuals and want to rationalise it by creating characteristics that include heterosexuals and exclude homosexuals. It’s the classical us vs them tactic, we are good, they are bad.

    You reduce it to sexuality, even though there is way more to human relationships than just sex.

    We have sex in a good way, they have sex in a bad way. Unfortunately for you straight people engage in the same kind sexual activity as gay people do.

    We have sex to reproduce, they don’t. Well as I pointed out, most of the time straight people don’t have sex to reproduce.

    What we have is natural, what they have is unnatural. However, most of human behavior is unnatural (as in not observed in other species) but homosexuality is actually observed in other species.

    All this is just an desperate attempt to rationalise your prejudices and your preconceptions and justify why you should discriminate against homosexuals.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  120. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    “…..Oh, I wouldn’t say that. Plenty of gay folk say very nice things about each other….”

    They still don’t physicly compliment each other Ryan. Where as a husband and wife do.

    Gays also have brains Ryan, so how come gays don’t realise that ‘Marriage equality’ is impossable to achieve?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  121. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    Your getting REALLY DEPERATE RYAN!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  122. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    They still don’t physicly compliment each other Ryan. Where as a husband and wife do.

    Yeah, I was making a joke because you used the word “compliment” when you meant “complement”.

    Your getting REALLY DEPERATE RYAN!

    Oh, hardly. I’m just following your “everything fits together or doesn’t for a reason” reasoning through to a few logical conclusions.

    I’m sure you’re aware that there’s a great variety of genital sizes out there, and there are plenty of penis-vagina combinations that are about as physically complementary as your penis-anus example. If the penis not fitting easily into the anus is a sign of God not intending for it to happen, doesn’t that mean the same for straight couples where the penis doesn’t fit easily into the vagina?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  123. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    eszett#

    “…..What we have is natural, what they have is unnatural. However, most of human behavior is unnatural (as in not observed in other species) but homosexuality is actually observed in other species….”

    Animals could get confused between a vagina and an anus – but 4% of the human population?

    Ezett believes that 96% of humans behave unnaturally! :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  124. Redbaiter (10,361 comments) says:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  125. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    What you’re saying, Harriet, is that gay (and straight) couples who engage in anal sex should stop and say, “Now, hold on. This doesn’t fit. We’re probably not meant to do that.”

    And you’ve suggested they’re idiots if they don’t think that.

    But what happens when a straight couple engages in vaginal sex and finds it doesn’t fit? Would they be idiotic not to think, “Now, hold on. This doesn’t fit. We’re probably not meant to do that.”?

    And if there’s a difference, please explain what it is.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  126. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    “…..If the penis not fitting easily into the anus is a sign of God not intending for it to happen, doesn’t that mean the same for straight couples where the penis doesn’t fit easily into the vagina?…”

    No.

    One is a matter of sodomy and one is a matter of size!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  127. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    No.

    One is a matter of sodomy and one is a matter of size!

    But you’ve just said that what demonstrates sodomy’s wrongness is a matter of size. They’re not physically compatible because God didn’t intend for it to occur.

    How is that different with a straight couple whose genitals do not fit together? Isn’t that an obvious sign that God doesn’t want them to have sex?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  128. Reid (16,681 comments) says:

    I’m sure you’re aware that there’s a great variety of genital sizes out there, and there are plenty of penis-vagina combinations that are about as physically complementary as your penis-anus example. If the penis not fitting easily into the anus is a sign of God not intending for it to happen, doesn’t that mean the same for straight couples where the penis doesn’t fit easily into the vagina?

    See this is possibly why blogs aren’t yet considered “mainstream.”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  129. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    See this is possibly why blogs aren’t considered “mainstream.”

    I’m asking the questions the mainstream media are too afraid to confront!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  130. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    “…..And if there’s a difference, please explain what it is….’

    Firstly Ryan, anal ‘sex’ is not sex but sodomy as a bottom is not a human sexual organ. GP’s will tell you that.

    Of course there is a differance Ryan -the natural order of things- vaginas and penises procreate – arseholes don’t![go on Ryan, find a medical exception, a statistical abberation where some women ‘ended up’ with a foetus in her bowel] :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  131. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    Firstly Ryan, anal ‘sex’ is not sex

    Yes, Bill Clinton was the last one who tried the “oral sex is not sex” line

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  132. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    “…..I’m asking the questions the mainstream media are too afraid to confront!…”

    Right!……like…’some’ penises don’t fit ‘properly’ into ‘some’ vaginas?

    You are getting VERY DESPERATE RYAN. :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  133. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    Of course there is a differance Ryan -the natural order of things- vaginas and penises procreate – arseholes don’t![go on Ryan, find a medical exception, a statistical abberation where some women ‘ended up’ with a foetus in her bowel]

    Then you’re saying that the wrongness of anal penetration has nothing to do with the physical incompatibility of sizes, but is purely about not being able to produce children.

    Clearly you don’t think the wrongness is based on physical incompatibility, because you’re happy for incompatibly sized straight couples to have sex.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  134. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    Now ezett is baseing sexuality on Bill Clintons achievments – rooting a wife who wears pyjamas!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  135. Reid (16,681 comments) says:

    Can I ask why we are talking about the homo act? It’s pretty gay. No-one’s mentioned sling sex yet which surprises me given just about everything has been but anyway, what does it have to do with anything?

    P.S. I’m also disappointed we haven’t yet discussed lesbian sex for that could be very relevant, possibly.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  136. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    Ryan #

    Is excrement the ‘natural’ fit to the human anus Ryan, or is it the penis?

    What is the ‘natural’ purpose of an anus Ryan?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  137. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    I’d rather not base sexuality on the nonsense that you’re writing here, Harriet.
    You are either a troll or know very little about sexuality, human or otherwise. Most likely both.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  138. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    What’s the purpose of semen Ryan?

    Why does each male produce millions of semen Ryan?

    What are the two purposes of a penis Ryan?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  139. labrator (1,851 comments) says:

    What is the purpose of trolling Ryan?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  140. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    “….You are either a troll or know very little about sexuality, human or otherwise….”

    Is a strapon dick a natural part of human sexuality Ezett?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  141. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    A question for MMP experts.
    Peters sacks Horan and Horan remains in Parliament as an independent.

    NZF then bring in a new MP to replace Horan.

    So there is now an extra MP and vote floating in the ether.

    Whats to stop the PM giving one of the National MP’s the arse , making him go independent( but secretly he’s still going to vote with the govt.

    Then the Government bring in another MP to cover the one whose now and independent thereby increasing thier majority.

    Is this possible?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  142. Manolo (14,161 comments) says:

    The fundamentalist refuses to budge: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12/05/egypt-interior-ministry-clashes-between-president-supporters-opponents-kill-at/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  143. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Thats why mmp is a dog PEB and it needs to be dumped. But no, stupid kiwis voted to keep it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  144. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    NZF then bring in a new MP to replace Horan.

    PEB, I don’t think NZF can bring in a new MP until Horan resigns.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  145. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    @ eszett

    Ta

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  146. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Is it still jokes after 6pm?

    A lorry driver goes on a date with a sexy girl. Afterwards they go back to her parents place. He starts fucking her on the couch when he feels the barrel of a gun on his neck.
    He turns around sees her father is standing there. He says:”if you’re a real fucking lorry driver you’ll be able to back that fucker out of there with a full load”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  147. Viking2 (11,665 comments) says:

    Pyes Pa pack rapists sentenced

    Posted at 12:44pm Friday 07th Dec, 2012
    Share on Facebook Follow Us on Facebook Follow on Twitter
    Email A Friend Printer Friendly Page

    Five Tauranga men found guilty of pack raping a woman at Pyes Pa last year have been sentenced to 11-13 years’ jail.

    Samuel Owen Weenink, 20, Corey Clinton Owens, 20, and Dylan John O’Neill, 21, are sentenced to 12 years and nine months’ jail while co-offender Richard James Cameron Morton, 21, received a sentence of 11 years four month

    http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/36028-pyes-pa-pack-rapists-sentenced.html

    That sort of tends to make these arse ends a bit quiet.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  148. Viking2 (11,665 comments) says:

    The Nazi’s are out in force.
    Mr Dunne’s favourite pastime is getting nasty with RETROSPECTIVE Tax Collecting.

    Accountants slam IRD allowance change
    Last updated 14:43 07/12/2012

    The Institute of Chartered Accountants (NZICA) has joined the chorus of dismay over the Inland Revenue Department’s decision to retrospectively tax accommodation allowances.

    The accounting industry body says it is “deeply concerned” about the new tax, and says it will affect the Christchurch rebuild.

    The change will have a significant impact on industries which rely on itinerant workers, such as agriculture, the film industry, and the effort to rebuild the quake-shattered city, NZICA says.

    The new rule, announced in a statement yesterday, will mean that employers have to pay PAYE on any accommodation allowance an employee gets when working away from home.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8051169/Accountants-slam-IRD-allowance-change

    Time to hassel those luvely and cuddly National MP’s guys. Ypou know all those you think are just so great.
    What will be next?
    My info is that they are issuing banks with 100% collection notices on overdue debts.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  149. Griff (8,419 comments) says:

    FOB Kid

    The kindergarten class had to come up with a sentence using the colors green, pink, and yellow. So the teacher calls up every single kid in the classroom. But she forgot to call on the Samoan kid. So she asks him to please step up to the front of the class and recite his sentence. So the Samoan boy went up to the front of the class and said, “The phone went green green green. I pink up the phone and say yellow”!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  150. Viking2 (11,665 comments) says:

    http://www.toilette-humor.com/christmas/christmas_balloons.shtml

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  151. kowtow (8,928 comments) says:

    monique,
    in light of today’s theme I think first the lorry driver would a taken a guy home and the dad wouldn’t have give a shit as the full load would be going up the chocolate passage,and other than a dose of AIDS ,Dad wouldn’t have to worry about his boy getting pregnant,seeing as how turd thumping is real sex according to more than a few posters here.

    But then maybe he would have stopped them as he woulldn’t have wanted shit all over his couch.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  152. Reid (16,681 comments) says:

    Tell me this isn’t one of the best guitar solo’s you’ve ever seen.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  153. RightNow (7,014 comments) says:

    “P.S. I’m also disappointed we haven’t yet discussed lesbian sex for that could be very relevant, possibly.”

    Don’t you dare ‘kiss of death’ lesbian sex. It’s art.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  154. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    Is excrement the ‘natural’ fit to the human anus Ryan, or is it the penis?

    What is the ‘natural’ purpose of an anus Ryan?

    Certainly the anus evolved for excreting, Harriet. The fact that it feels good for men to have a penis pushed inside, stimulating the prostate from the inside, is just a happy accident for those men who are sexually attracted to other men (or women who enjoy using a dildo on their male partner).

    Have you seen my point, Harriet? You say that God doesn’t want penises inside anuses because they don’t fit. I pointed out that some penises don’t fit inside some vaginas. You ignored that and started talking about procreation. I told you that it’s clear your standard for what God wants or doesn’t want is procreation, not whether or not something fits, because you’ve ignored my point. And then you ignored that and started asking me what the natural purpose of an anus is.

    So try just sticking to that one first point, Harriet.

    Are you saying that the fact that a penis does not fit easily inside an anus is evidence that God does not want people to have anal sex?

    If so, is the fact that some penises do not fit easily into some vaginas also evidence that God does not want those people to have vaginal sex?

    If you start talking about procreation, what you’re saying is that how things fit or don’t fit together is irrelevant (so why have you gone on about it?)

    If you don’t talk about procreation, what is the difference that makes God design penises that won’t fit into vaginas when he wants them to at the same time as designing penises that won’t fit into anuses to show he doesn’t want them to?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  155. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    What is the purpose of trolling Ryan?

    I’m not trolling, Labrator. I’m showing Harriet what silly things she is saying by showing the logical conclusions to which they lead.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  156. mikenmild (12,313 comments) says:

    Pesky Ryan is using tricky logic to confuse poor Harriet. Play fair Ryan!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  157. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    Pesky Ryan is using tricky logic to confuse poor Harriet. Play fair Ryan!

    It is possible to have a logically consistent argument against anal sex. It’s just that Harriet’s is not. Is it about things not fitting? Then what about penises that don’t fit in vaginas. Oh, it’s about procreation? Then what about infertile straight couples?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  158. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull

    One sick fuck.

    A very sick fuck.

    A sad, sick, fucked up person.

    How sad and sick you are Ryan
    You poor sod.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  159. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,760 comments) says:

    Looks like a shitstorm on the way to Sydney once everyone wakes up.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  160. expat (4,050 comments) says:

    God damn fundies going feral.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  161. Manolo (14,161 comments) says:

    @Viking
    Another reason to get rid of the prostitute and parasite of Ohariu-Belmont, the whorish Peter Dunne.

    Never forget: National is the party of low taxes.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  162. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull#

    “….Have you seen my point, Harriet?…’

    No.

    Half the population has a penis and the other half has a vagina – and everyone has an arsehole that they expel shit from.

    And as I said “Gays don’t even complement each other – so what the fuck would they know about human sexuality?”

    Other than adding shit into it! :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  163. Manolo (14,161 comments) says:

    Luddites, Labourites and comrade Helen Kelly will be very happy: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/culture/8043730/The-Hobbit-gets-mixed-critical-reception

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  164. Viking2 (11,665 comments) says:

    New tax rule hits bill for rebuild
    MARIA SLADE
    Last updated 05:00 08/12/2012

    Rebuilding Christchurch

    An Inland Revenue decision to tax worker accommodation allowances will add to the already rapidly rising Christchurch rebuild bill, tax experts say.

    There has been a chorus of dismay from the tax industry since the IRD put out a statement this week saying it intends to tax allowances and accommodation provided to employees who have to work away from home.

    It also wants to make the tax retrospective, asking employers to look over their books going back as far as four years.

    With a flood of outside workers expected in Christchurch to help with rebuilding the quake-shattered city, local Grant Thornton partner Geordie Hooft said it would make the job more expensive.

    “It provides a disincentive and I’m concerned about that.

    “It’s not going to stop things from happening, it’s just going to represent another cost. And the cost of the rebuild goes up and up and up all the time.”

    The rule change requiring employers to pay PAYE on any accommodation provision an employee gets when working in another location – particularly the decision to make it retrospective – has taken the tax fraternity by surprise.

    Hooft said the move was in contrast to recommendations made by the IRD’s own policy advice division last month.

    The Institute of Chartered Accountants (NZICA) said it was “deeply concerned” about the new tax.

    It would have a significant impact on industries which relied on itinerant workers, such as agriculture, the film industry, and the Christchurch rebuild effort, the accounting industry body said.

    Acting general manager tax, Jolayne Trim, said it was a retrospective law change “of the worst kind”.

    “Inland Revenue is taking the chance that taxpayers will not have the resources available to question the commercial impracticality of its announcement,” she said.

    IRD was asking firms to voluntarily disclose payments of accommodation allowances or provision of accommodation going back two years, and where the accommodation was paid on behalf of the employee it wanted them to go back four years.

    PWC said the tax treatment of accommodation provided to employees working away from home had long been subject to debate, but it had been generally accepted that the worker did not get any net benefit from it and therefore it should not be seen as taxable income.

    The accounting firm also said it had “serious misgivings” about the IRD statement’s lack of clarity.

    Accommodation might not be taxable when it was just overnight or for a short-term stay by a worker, but taxpayers were still “very much in the dark” about what the IRD considered to be “temporary”, it said.
    Ad Feedback

    “One wonders how Inland Revenue’s own investigators will be able to apply the statement. Many employees located in Christchurch for the rebuild now face an uncertain tax position.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/rebuilding-christchurch/8053130/New-tax-rule-hits-bill-for-rebuild

    The Nazi’s have taken over in the Capital.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  165. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    Decent sized earthquake here in Palmy!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  166. Viking2 (11,665 comments) says:

    That’s to shake down all those old brick buildings in Feilding.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  167. Viking2 (11,665 comments) says:

    Public Id: 2012p923684
    NZDT: Saturday, December 8 2012 at 7:19:06 am
    Intensity: moderate
    Depth: 175 km
    Magnitude: 5.8
    Location: 20 km south-east of Tokoroa

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  168. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    No.

    Half the population has a penis and the other half has a vagina – and everyone has an arsehole that they expel shit from.

    And as I said “Gays don’t even complement each other – so what the fuck would they know about human sexuality?”

    Other than adding shit into it!

    Yes, yes, very cute, but you haven’t answered my question.

    You said that God’s design is made apparent through the penis not fitting easily into the anus, and that people who engage in anal sex are stupid for not being able to see what is obvious. Why doesn’t that make God’s design apparent that he doesn’t want certain different-sex couples having sex (ones where the penis doesn’t fit easily into the vagina)?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  169. mikenmild (12,313 comments) says:

    Trying to argue with Harriet as though she were logical and informed is doomed to failure, Ryan.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  170. Scott Chris (6,178 comments) says:

    Perhaps God should have designed the penis like a cork-screw and given the anus a reverse thread…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  171. Fletch (6,516 comments) says:

    This might help –

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  172. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    Perhaps God should have designed the penis like a cork-screw and given the anus a reverse thread…

    You mean like these ducks? http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/1277 (That’s a corkscrew vagina, though.)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  173. eszett (2,450 comments) says:

    So Fletch get”s his sexual advise from the 1950s.
    That may explain a few things

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  174. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    Ryan Spoull#

    Ryan Spoull#

    “…..You said that God’s design is made apparent….”

    YOU ARE A FUCKEN LIAR Ryan!

    Go through the entire thread and see where I have used the word god, religion, jesus etc.

    I haven’t – anywhere at all – I have not alluded to it either.

    you bought it up at 4:38 – with this –

    “….Actually, that raises a bit of a question, Harriet. What would God’s purpose be in creating such a variety of sizes of vaginas and penises?..”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  175. Harriet (5,199 comments) says:

    Mikenmad#

    “…Trying to argue with Harriet as though she were logical and informed is doomed to failure, Ryan….”

    I think you’ll find that it is Ryan who is talking through his arsehole Mikenmad!

    “Neither a male-male nor a female-female relationship has the essential — i.e., of the essence — property of male-female. Same-sex marriage is neither validated nor created. It is metaphysically impossible. So to think is a logical fallacy; so to speak is semantic nonsense.”

    Here is the explaination of that –

    Philosophers going as far back as Aristotle have spoken of predication, properties and the like. Predication very simply refers to the attributing of characteristics to a subject or a thing. What a thing is may have different properties or ways of being characterised.

    For our purposes here I wish to speak of two basic predications, or predicates, which have been distinguished in intellectual history for nearly three millennia now. These two main predicates are the essential and the accidental. It is important to be clear about how these differ, since discussions about personhood and the like depend upon these distinctions.

    In very simple fashion, let us define our terms this way:
    -An essential predicate, attribute, or property is one that belongs to the very nature or essence of a thing. They are necessary and permanent properties of a thing.
    -An accidental predicate, attribute, or property is a quality which is not an essential part of a thing’s essence. They are contingent and temporary properties of a thing.

    Thus something which is essential is that which must be true of a thing. If that quality or characteristic is missing, then that thing or object no longer is or can be. As John and Paul Feinberg explain: “An essential characteristic is a quality that is part of the very essence of a thing. If that quality is lost, the thing ceases to exist. On the other hand, an accidental quality is one that is not part of a thing’s essence. It can be lost or gained without the thing ceasing to exist.”

    “A red ball possesses the properties red and round. Calling a green round object or a red square object a red ball does not make it a red ball. Calling same-sex ‘marriage’ does not make it marriage.

    “The universe in this philosophic consideration is marriage, which is — by its very definition and essence — the complementary wedding of male and female. Other properties of this particular can be health, ethnic, and intelligence. All such are non-essentials (the term is ‘accidentals’) and can vary greatly and still be marriage. This is so because these are either consistent with or indifferent to the essence of the universal. In contrast, same-sex by its very nature is dissonant and incongruous with the essence of marriage.

    “Again in the taxonomy of philosophy, the accidental properties of a given marriage are irrelevant to its essence. They just happen to be present without being necessary. What is not an accidental property is an essential property. These are accidental properties but heterosexuality is an essential property when the universe is marriage. Again: a green ball is not a red ball precisely because the property red is absent.

    “Without such essential properties as sex that is compatible and complementary, an alleged marriage simply is not marriage at all. Without this, the relationship might be beautiful and wonderful socially or even domestically — but it is not marriage.

    “Neither a male-male nor a female-female relationship has the essential — i.e., of the essence — property of male-female. Same-sex marriage is neither validated nor created. It is metaphysically impossible. So to think is a logical fallacy; so to speak is semantic nonsense.”

    Quite so. I can go on all day long and declare that the Australian football team which won the AFL Grand Final yesterday was in fact the Geelong Cats. But no amount of blustering on my part will change the reality: the Sydney Swans won yesterday.

    http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2012/09/30/philosophy-and-homosexual-marriage/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  176. Ryan Sproull (7,360 comments) says:

    YOU ARE A FUCKEN LIAR Ryan!

    Go through the entire thread and see where I have used the word god, religion, jesus etc.

    I haven’t – anywhere at all – I have not alluded to it either.

    you bought it up at 4:38 – with this –

    “….Actually, that raises a bit of a question, Harriet. What would God’s purpose be in creating such a variety of sizes of vaginas and penises?..”

    Ah, okay. My apologies, Harriet. I read too much into your comment replying to Fletch talking about teleology.

    So you’re talking about the purpose of body parts without any reference to something giving them purpose? And you’ve mentioned people “not being designed for sodomy”, but you’re not referring any kind of designer? Okay.

    Well, that’s way simpler.

    Basically, Harriet, if two consenting adults want to insert something that doesn’t fit so well – whether it’s a penis in an anus or a penis that doesn’t fit a vagina – it’s just none of your business or mine.

    Humans use all kinds of body parts and bodily functions for purposes that differ from their evolutionary biological roles. Ears are for hearing, but some people put earrings in them. Lungs are for breathing, but some people use them as a nicotine-delivery device. Legs are for walking and running, but some people dance.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote