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	<title>Comments on: Horan&#8217;s defence</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: Viking2</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057783</link>
		<dc:creator>Viking2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 06:14:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057783</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Horan spent a long time between being a useless weather flunky and getting elected to a salary. Don&#039;t recall at anytime that he was employed but he was never shy of being out there. Money must have flowed from some plac e.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Horan spent a long time between being a useless weather flunky and getting elected to a salary. Don&#8217;t recall at anytime that he was employed but he was never shy of being out there. Money must have flowed from some plac e.</p>
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		<title>By: Bevan</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057782</link>
		<dc:creator>Bevan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 06:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057782</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Goodness gracious, do you like controlling others? The woman was elderly and died weeks after the bets were made…how dare she enjoy the final weeks of her life! Presumably you think old people shouldn’t have sex.&lt;/i&gt;

Who are you? And what have you done with the real ross69?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Goodness gracious, do you like controlling others? The woman was elderly and died weeks after the bets were made…how dare she enjoy the final weeks of her life! Presumably you think old people shouldn’t have sex.</i></p>
<p>Who are you? And what have you done with the real ross69?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: hmmokrightitis</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057746</link>
		<dc:creator>hmmokrightitis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 04:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057746</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I also like the delicious irony...

Winston, sacking an MP, for bringing parliament in to disrepute.  You couldn&#039;t make this shit up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also like the delicious irony&#8230;</p>
<p>Winston, sacking an MP, for bringing parliament in to disrepute.  You couldn&#8217;t make this shit up.</p>
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		<title>By: BlairM</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057736</link>
		<dc:creator>BlairM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 04:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057736</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This whole affair is utterly ridiculous.  So far this seems to be a civil, not a criminal matter.  That is awkward for any MP or public figure, but it&#039;s certainly not a sackable offence.  It&#039;s ridiculous that he is being vilified and cast aside on this matter.  Unless the police are involved, it seems obvious that he should remain an MP.

I don&#039;t give a fuck what any MP does with family money - that&#039;s their business.  I care about whether they vote billions of dollars towards stupid crap, and most of them do that every sitting day of Parliament.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole affair is utterly ridiculous.  So far this seems to be a civil, not a criminal matter.  That is awkward for any MP or public figure, but it&#8217;s certainly not a sackable offence.  It&#8217;s ridiculous that he is being vilified and cast aside on this matter.  Unless the police are involved, it seems obvious that he should remain an MP.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t give a fuck what any MP does with family money &#8211; that&#8217;s their business.  I care about whether they vote billions of dollars towards stupid crap, and most of them do that every sitting day of Parliament.</p>
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		<title>By: Adolf Fiinkensein</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057734</link>
		<dc:creator>Adolf Fiinkensein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 04:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If Horan did indeed pinch a few bob from his mother&#039;s account, which I very much doubt, his biggest mistake was failing to use some of it to make a flamboyant donation to the Winston First Party.  Had he done so, Peters would have elevated him to sainthood.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Horan did indeed pinch a few bob from his mother&#8217;s account, which I very much doubt, his biggest mistake was failing to use some of it to make a flamboyant donation to the Winston First Party.  Had he done so, Peters would have elevated him to sainthood.</p>
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		<title>By: hmmokrightitis</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057712</link>
		<dc:creator>hmmokrightitis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 03:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057712</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wonder how long it is before someone - who knows, maybe Whale - OIA&#039;s certain MP&#039;s phone records...

Or maybe its been done already...

:)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonder how long it is before someone &#8211; who knows, maybe Whale &#8211; OIA&#8217;s certain MP&#8217;s phone records&#8230;</p>
<p>Or maybe its been done already&#8230;</p>
<p> <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Bevan</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057684</link>
		<dc:creator>Bevan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 02:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;For my 2c, I think 12 calls in four hours does indicate a potential gambling problem.&lt;/i&gt;

The amount of calls does not indicate a problem - the amount gambled would.

We don&#039;t know the reason for each call, or what resulted form the call so how can we judge? Maybe a few of those times he was ringing for a balance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>For my 2c, I think 12 calls in four hours does indicate a potential gambling problem.</i></p>
<p>The amount of calls does not indicate a problem &#8211; the amount gambled would.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t know the reason for each call, or what resulted form the call so how can we judge? Maybe a few of those times he was ringing for a balance.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex Widerstrom</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057625</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex Widerstrom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 00:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057625</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Lipo asks:

&lt;blockquote&gt;When will all the phone records of all MP’s be made public so we can see who has made private calls and which ones were business related&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes I&#039;m amazed Winston of all people wants to start a fight about the correct use of Parliamentary resources. Or - as david notes above - the topic of money flowing to (or from) the racing industry in less than transparent circumstances.

Given that in the past he backed Michael Laws to the hilt when the questions were about the receipt and alleged misuse of &lt;i&gt;public&lt;/i&gt; money, and even when proved retained him as a staffer and key advisor, then I suspect Sofia is right - he acted against Horan only because he knew someone else was about to expose the truth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lipo asks:</p>
<blockquote><p>When will all the phone records of all MP’s be made public so we can see who has made private calls and which ones were business related</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes I&#8217;m amazed Winston of all people wants to start a fight about the correct use of Parliamentary resources. Or &#8211; as david notes above &#8211; the topic of money flowing to (or from) the racing industry in less than transparent circumstances.</p>
<p>Given that in the past he backed Michael Laws to the hilt when the questions were about the receipt and alleged misuse of <i>public</i> money, and even when proved retained him as a staffer and key advisor, then I suspect Sofia is right &#8211; he acted against Horan only because he knew someone else was about to expose the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: ross69</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057622</link>
		<dc:creator>ross69</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 00:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057622</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Winston was Minister for Racing from 2005-2008.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Winston was Minister for Racing from 2005-2008.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Gibson</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057606</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Gibson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 00:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057606</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My thoughts also Ross69 [edit: and Elaycee] -- I hope she still had enough money for some really good cognac, and cigars also if she felt so-moved.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My thoughts also Ross69 [edit: and Elaycee] &#8212; I hope she still had enough money for some really good cognac, and cigars also if she felt so-moved.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: david</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057602</link>
		<dc:creator>david</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 00:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057602</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The funniest part of this sad saga is that Winnie is effectively saying that supporting the racing industry is heinous, immoral (amoral?) and worthy of being sacked for.  I&#039;ll just bet  that his financial backers  (Vela Bros et al) are just peachy with that message.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The funniest part of this sad saga is that Winnie is effectively saying that supporting the racing industry is heinous, immoral (amoral?) and worthy of being sacked for.  I&#8217;ll just bet  that his financial backers  (Vela Bros et al) are just peachy with that message.</p>
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		<title>By: Raphael</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057597</link>
		<dc:creator>Raphael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 00:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057597</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;her wealth dropped by almost $100,000 over a couple of years&quot;

A fair number of BIG lotto winners have blown most of their winnings within a few years. So a drop of $100,000 over a couple of years by itself doesn&#039;t indicate much.

&quot;Percent of lottery winners who had spent their entire winnings within 5 years: 44 %&quot;
http://www.statisticbrain.com/lottery-winner-statistics/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;her wealth dropped by almost $100,000 over a couple of years&#8221;</p>
<p>A fair number of BIG lotto winners have blown most of their winnings within a few years. So a drop of $100,000 over a couple of years by itself doesn&#8217;t indicate much.</p>
<p>&#8220;Percent of lottery winners who had spent their entire winnings within 5 years: 44 %&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.statisticbrain.com/lottery-winner-statistics/" rel="nofollow">http://www.statisticbrain.com/lottery-winner-statistics/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Elaycee</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057596</link>
		<dc:creator>Elaycee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2012 00:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057596</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;If it is true that his defense is he helped his mother gamble on the horses significantly (rather than taking money without permission), then he should resign as an MP anyway.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What total bollocks! 

When my parents were alive, I encouraged them to spend up and enjoy their savings whilst they were active etc. But, typical of their generation, they thought it was the &#039;right thing&#039; to squirrel away money &#039;for the kids&#039; or &#039;for a rainy day&#039; etc. It took a fair amount of persuasion, but they ended up travelling a fair bit and I am grateful they were able to spend &lt;b&gt;their&lt;/b&gt; money on themselves. And if my Mum or Dad had ever suggested to me that they wanted a flutter, I would have gladly placed the bet on for them - after all, it was &lt;b&gt;their&lt;/b&gt; money. 

So to criticise Horan / suggest he should resign if he had done exactly that, is bollocks. 

I don&#039;t know what really happened, but if it turns out that Horan placed bets at his Mum&#039;s request, then good on him. But if it turns out that he stole her money for his own purposes, then he&#039;d better buckle up because he hasn&#039;t heard the last if it...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If it is true that his defense is he helped his mother gamble on the horses significantly (rather than taking money without permission), then he should resign as an MP anyway.</p></blockquote>
<p>What total bollocks! </p>
<p>When my parents were alive, I encouraged them to spend up and enjoy their savings whilst they were active etc. But, typical of their generation, they thought it was the &#8216;right thing&#8217; to squirrel away money &#8216;for the kids&#8217; or &#8216;for a rainy day&#8217; etc. It took a fair amount of persuasion, but they ended up travelling a fair bit and I am grateful they were able to spend <b>their</b> money on themselves. And if my Mum or Dad had ever suggested to me that they wanted a flutter, I would have gladly placed the bet on for them &#8211; after all, it was <b>their</b> money. </p>
<p>So to criticise Horan / suggest he should resign if he had done exactly that, is bollocks. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what really happened, but if it turns out that Horan placed bets at his Mum&#8217;s request, then good on him. But if it turns out that he stole her money for his own purposes, then he&#8217;d better buckle up because he hasn&#8217;t heard the last if it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: ross69</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057584</link>
		<dc:creator>ross69</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 23:51:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057584</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&gt; he is unable to tell his own mother “Mum, stop betting on the horses&quot;

Goodness gracious, do you like controlling others? The woman was elderly and died weeks after the bets were made...how dare she enjoy the final weeks of her life! Presumably you think old people shouldn&#039;t have sex. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; he is unable to tell his own mother “Mum, stop betting on the horses&#8221;</p>
<p>Goodness gracious, do you like controlling others? The woman was elderly and died weeks after the bets were made&#8230;how dare she enjoy the final weeks of her life! Presumably you think old people shouldn&#8217;t have sex. <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Reid</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057583</link>
		<dc:creator>Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 23:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057583</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;For my 2c, I think 12 calls in four hours does indicate a potential gambling problem. &lt;b&gt;But that is not even the issue&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt;

I think we&#039;ve established Horan wasn&#039;t excessive there, as one caller on Sean Plunket&#039;s ZB show said just before 12:00. This was a guy who has &quot;punted not gambled&quot; (his words) for 20 years. He also said he&#039;d heard (where from he didn&#039;t say) Horan used a special line, that he wouldn&#039;t be able to access because he didn&#039;t gamble enough.

To me it comes down to the pattern. I don&#039;t see any choice but for Horan to publish the relevant transactions and dates. Peters won&#039;t do it he can&#039;t it has to be Horan.

But Horan&#039;s counsel said that Horan doesn&#039;t know what Peters has seen whereas Peters said Horan knew because he (Horan) has copies. Horan needs some serious PR advice PDQ, I hope he gets it because I&#039;d love to see him win and make Peters look like an idiot.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>For my 2c, I think 12 calls in four hours does indicate a potential gambling problem. <b>But that is not even the issue</b></i></p>
<p>I think we&#8217;ve established Horan wasn&#8217;t excessive there, as one caller on Sean Plunket&#8217;s ZB show said just before 12:00. This was a guy who has &#8220;punted not gambled&#8221; (his words) for 20 years. He also said he&#8217;d heard (where from he didn&#8217;t say) Horan used a special line, that he wouldn&#8217;t be able to access because he didn&#8217;t gamble enough.</p>
<p>To me it comes down to the pattern. I don&#8217;t see any choice but for Horan to publish the relevant transactions and dates. Peters won&#8217;t do it he can&#8217;t it has to be Horan.</p>
<p>But Horan&#8217;s counsel said that Horan doesn&#8217;t know what Peters has seen whereas Peters said Horan knew because he (Horan) has copies. Horan needs some serious PR advice PDQ, I hope he gets it because I&#8217;d love to see him win and make Peters look like an idiot.</p>
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		<title>By: CHFR</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057574</link>
		<dc:creator>CHFR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 23:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[“For my 2c, I think 12 calls in four hours does indicate a potential gambling problem.”

David you obviously don&#039;t know anyone with an interest in horse racing. April 28 was a Saturday (as others have pointed out) so 12 calls in 4 hours would be about right for someone following 3-4 meetings. Prior to embracing the TAB internet site he would make more calls than this in a 4 hour period. He does not have an gambling problem and only bets on a Saturday.

There may be more to come out on this and for once Winston&#039;s radar could be very defective...or not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“For my 2c, I think 12 calls in four hours does indicate a potential gambling problem.”</p>
<p>David you obviously don&#8217;t know anyone with an interest in horse racing. April 28 was a Saturday (as others have pointed out) so 12 calls in 4 hours would be about right for someone following 3-4 meetings. Prior to embracing the TAB internet site he would make more calls than this in a 4 hour period. He does not have an gambling problem and only bets on a Saturday.</p>
<p>There may be more to come out on this and for once Winston&#8217;s radar could be very defective&#8230;or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057573</link>
		<dc:creator>Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 23:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[haha RightNow
exactly!
I used 6 because its comparable in my opinion

RF
I do multis
so even though I place them on at the same time, technically I place many, many bets throughout the day automatically
unless my early picks are woeful :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>haha RightNow<br />
exactly!<br />
I used 6 because its comparable in my opinion</p>
<p>RF<br />
I do multis<br />
so even though I place them on at the same time, technically I place many, many bets throughout the day automatically<br />
unless my early picks are woeful <img src='http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Adolf Fiinkensein</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057571</link>
		<dc:creator>Adolf Fiinkensein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 23:31:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057571</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;its kind of like saying someone who consumes 6 beers on a Saturday has a drinking problem&quot;

He does.  He needs more.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;its kind of like saying someone who consumes 6 beers on a Saturday has a drinking problem&#8221;</p>
<p>He does.  He needs more.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: RF</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057570</link>
		<dc:creator>RF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 23:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057570</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[SSASTTL.. 12.25pm

I agree.  My TAB phone account will not be used for ages and then if there are a number meetings on a particular Saturday I would make about a dozen bets in a 5 hour period.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SSASTTL.. 12.25pm</p>
<p>I agree.  My TAB phone account will not be used for ages and then if there are a number meetings on a particular Saturday I would make about a dozen bets in a 5 hour period.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: RightNow</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/horans_defence.html/comment-page-1#comment-1057567</link>
		<dc:creator>RightNow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2012 23:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69187#comment-1057567</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;someone who consumes 6 beers on a Saturday has a drinking problem&quot; - they ran out too soon?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;someone who consumes 6 beers on a Saturday has a drinking problem&#8221; &#8211; they ran out too soon?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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