Peters acted pretty capriciously even by his low standards. It would be interesting to see the evidence he claims he relied on when he made his personal statement to the House. Usually when your case is pretty cut and dried you don’t need to hide under Parliamentary Privilege. Furthermore, when your case is definitive you don’t have to leak silly titbits to the media about Horan’s laptop in an attempt to further blacken his name. Perhaps Winston just had a few too many whiskeys over lunch on the day he made his decision.

Time will tell. But one thing is for certain – only the lawyers will come out smelling like roses. Horan will be getting plenty of Winston dirt from a range of people who he has pissed off and crossed over the years (as Rex has been alluding to). There will be plenty of popcorn moments to follow I’d imagine.

I think that readers of this blog must be the most politically informed group of people in the country (despite dome of our obvious biases and manias ) and for this I thank you. I’m sure none of the MSM have the intelligence and knowledge to do this – maybe talkback radio, but certainly not TV, that’s for sure. Cheers!

A person’s character is well formed when at High School and if they act that extreme at that age, you know it’s an ingrained trait. Always useful to know that stuff.

Combine this with his half-brother who destroys his own brother’s career and career prospects in NZ for the foreseeable future and you have an interesting set of characters in that family, don’t you.

I do feel sympathy for Horan, he’s obviously addicted. It’s not an excuse but it’s an explanation and all of us are sometimes weak and do stupid things. It’s a classic family matter and should have remained private. I wonder if the reason Winston kept it quiet is because he hoped Brendan would resolve it quietly and things would move on. In that he wasn’t doing it as some claim, for venal reasons but more for Brendan’s sake?

The unincorporated Catholic Church has been sued.

Thanks, you’ve just confirmed my belief that David Stevenson and I had particularly gutless (or incompetent, but I suspect the former) lawyers.

I was all for having Peters, Woolerton, Lhaws, Neems et al sued personally but as soon as the court decided “New Zealand First” did not exist in law (which in itself I found a difficult decision to understand) they turned to water and wanted to drop the whole thing. And since we weren’t paying the full cost we couldn’t insist.

I do hope Mr Horan has better luck.

John A Lee was a “rebel” Labour MP who was finally expelled in 1940…Winston Churchill “ratted and then re-ratted” as he put it, from Conservative to Liberal back to Conservative in the 1920′s….Muldoon called the 1984 snap election inter alia because he was worried Marilyn Waring (and perhaps others) would cross the floor…

Surely there is a difference between a review of a Statutory Power and suing the Catholic Church?
What Statutory Power was or could Peters exercise or fail to exercise?

[Nat-Ind-Lib-All-NZF]

Tell me then somebody, if Mr Horan decides to carry on as an independent or loose cannon or whatever, what – I ask in all sincerity- can anyone do about it? And if no-one can do anything, isn’t that clear evidence that we have an amateurish, copy-cat, second-hand, fallible electoral system in this fair land of ours?.

1. We can choose not to vote for him at the next election.
2. We can choose not to vote for a party that is so lacklustre in its selection processes that it would select someone like that.

And most importantly

3. you can explain to me how any of the other voting systems would have been any different.

Under our last first-past-the-post Parliament:

*Peter Dunne left the Labour Party becoming an independent for a time before founding the Future New Zealand party.
*Ross Meurant left the National Party, eventually establishing the Right of Centre party.
*Graeme Lee left the National Party fonding a new party which eventually became the Christian Democrat Party.
*Trevor Rogers left the National Party, and later joined Ross Meurant’s new party.
*Margaret Austin, Bruce Cliffe, Clive Matthewson, Pauline Gardiner, Peter Hilt, and John Robertson left National or Labour and formed United with Peter Dunne.
*Ross Meurant, who had already left National and founded Right of Centre, which had been renamed the Conservatives, left the Conservatives and become an independent again.
*Jack Elder, from Labour Party and Peter McCardle and Michael Laws, from the National Party left to join Winston Peters and Tau Henare in New Zealand First.

And that was First Past the Post!

MPs left parties under first past the post about as frequently as they do under MMP, perhaps even more often. Then, as now, when the election occurred, we got the chance to do something about it.

Now it seems that Parliamentary Services is to do the same, despite the protestations of NZ First that this should have no impact on their reputation.

The irony is, of course, that if this government was to require the vote of Horan in place of the MP for Epsom they would take it in a heart beat.

Ah, nothing like a bit of the old ‘Ad Hominum”, eh Ben?

Might make sense if it was directed at a proposition, and spelled correctly? I think Horan has been unfairly treated, without knowing whether he is guilty of the allegations. But really, he is a cock, so I’m hardly surprised something like this has happened.

The unincorporated Catholic Church has been sued.

And if the organisation doesn’t exist, well, someone made the decision, you can judicially review them, even if you just name the members of the caucus individually.

NZ First believes he broke Parliament’s rules because parliamentary resources are only supposed to be used on parliamentary business.

Really, Winston? You really want to launch a debate about what’s proper use of Parliamentary resources? Really?!

Fairfax has also been told by sources that NZ First tried to seize the MP’s laptop computer after he phoned an assistant and asked her to wipe it clean of his records.

Seems to be SOP for NZF. They tried seizing mine but I had Parliamentary Services quarantine it till I could – in front of a witness from their IT section – delete personal items and emails. There as nothing then – and I very much doubt there is anything now – that prohibits a person from receiving or even replying to personal emails provided that it wasn’t done excessively. The only prohibitions were the typical things – no porn, no “warez” and similar dodgy things.

I briefly wondered whether Winston had some guilty secret about internet use and assumed everyone else had too, but then I remembered that, when mocked that he wouldn’t know how to even switch on a computer, he stabbed the power switch on the monitor sitting on his desk and then tried, through sheer force of will, to make the computer come to life and do something

David Stevenson and I took Peters (as Leader) and Woolerton (as President) and “New Zealand First” to the High Court in 1997 seeking a review of all sorts of skullduggery, mostly but not solely around the ranking of the 1996 party list.

Peters (who never once showed up at court, and did his usual trick of laying down in the backs of cars and being whisked out of Parliament at high speed to avoid process servers) argused that “New Zealand First” did not exist in law and thus was not subject to review.

And indeed the High Court agreed. Political parties are not associations (unless they choose to nbe, and none do), trusts, companies or any other recognised form of entity. While there may be a “New Zealand First Inc” (and there was, at least during my time) it was a separate organisation to the party, with (IIRC) only two members – Peters and Woolerton – and existed solely to act as a repository for any real property that might need an owner.

The things that beg for your party vote, endorse candidates and exercise undue control over what should be (but never truly can be so long as they exist) a House of Representatives have no more standing than if you and I decided to form the Foggy Bottom Tiddlywinks Club and never bothered registering it. If we later fell out over possession of the game board, you wouldn’t get far suing the “club” because the law does not recognise its existence. And since 1997 the High Court has taken the view that New Zealand First – and National and Labour for that matter – are just as ephemeral.

So no legal existence = no body whose decision can be judicially reviewed, surely?

Prosser is making one point in answer to another.

And no it doesn’ t take 2 months to prove your honesty sufficient that it can be either believed or more time consideration give.

Can’t see it’s anything but guilty as charged by his actions.

Dumped MP Brendan Horan used his parliamentary phone to call a TAB phone bet number 12 times in about four hours.

Records seen by Fairfax show Horan rang the same number on other occasions as well.

NZ First believes he broke Parliament’s rules because parliamentary resources are only supposed to be used on parliamentary business.

Fairfax has also been told by sources that NZ First tried to seize the MP’s laptop computer after he phoned an assistant and asked her to wipe it clean of his records.

Horan told Fairfax he was entitled to call who he wanted but did not deny the calls to the TAB.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8036099/MP-Brendan-Horan-called-TAB-phone-bet-number

Certainly indicates concerns in the ranks.

There seems to be a bit of other tension floating around. Two hours ago:

RadioLIVE Newsroom ‏@LIVENewsDesk

Winston Peters says MP Richard Prosser is NOT backing up Brendan Horan

And just now:

Richard Ivor Prosser ‏@Richard_Prosser

@GraemeEdgeler I think you will find the controversy concerns family money, not Parliamentary resources – but hey, why bother with facts?

Difficult times for NZ First.

Yes 2 months would have been long enough.

I heard somebody questioning why he should be able to remain in parliament when he was a list MP, hard to argue with that.

Ah, nothing like a bit of the old ‘Ad Hominum”, eh Ben?