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	<title>Comments on: The price of copper</title>
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	<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/the_price_of_copper.html</link>
	<description>DPF&#039;s Kiwiblog - Fomenting Happy Mischief since 2003</description>
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		<title>By: orewa1</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/the_price_of_copper.html/comment-page-1#comment-1061708</link>
		<dc:creator>orewa1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2012 20:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69475#comment-1061708</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Quite a conundrum! By quite rightly re-entering the telecommunications infrastructure market the government put itself in a position of conflict as not only regulator and largest customer of the sector, but also an investor in it.

So now the regulator, rightly, has ruled that the copper has become overpriced at wholesale level, and the tariffs should be reduced to the benefit of retail service providers and hopefully, consumers. The government&#039;s problem is this will widen the gap between the retail price of old copper and new fibre, making the fibre harder to sell.

The solution is not to maintain the wholesale price artificially high. This would undermine the regulator and effectively deliver an early Christmas to Chorus shareholders. 

Perhaps the pragmatic answer is for the governbment to allow the regulator&#039;s ruling to stand, but legislate to claw back part of the savings as a levy and add this to the proceeds into its fibre investment. There is probably scope to do this under the Telecommunications Act. That would be a win/win - Chorus would still get a fair price for copper as calculated by the Regulator, consumers would see their current price unchanged but benefit from faster roll out of fibre, the government would get the ratio between copper and fibre prices remains unchanged so as to maintain fibre&#039;s marketability, and the regulator&#039;s independence would be preserved.

Why not? Time for creative thinking.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite a conundrum! By quite rightly re-entering the telecommunications infrastructure market the government put itself in a position of conflict as not only regulator and largest customer of the sector, but also an investor in it.</p>
<p>So now the regulator, rightly, has ruled that the copper has become overpriced at wholesale level, and the tariffs should be reduced to the benefit of retail service providers and hopefully, consumers. The government&#8217;s problem is this will widen the gap between the retail price of old copper and new fibre, making the fibre harder to sell.</p>
<p>The solution is not to maintain the wholesale price artificially high. This would undermine the regulator and effectively deliver an early Christmas to Chorus shareholders. </p>
<p>Perhaps the pragmatic answer is for the governbment to allow the regulator&#8217;s ruling to stand, but legislate to claw back part of the savings as a levy and add this to the proceeds into its fibre investment. There is probably scope to do this under the Telecommunications Act. That would be a win/win &#8211; Chorus would still get a fair price for copper as calculated by the Regulator, consumers would see their current price unchanged but benefit from faster roll out of fibre, the government would get the ratio between copper and fibre prices remains unchanged so as to maintain fibre&#8217;s marketability, and the regulator&#8217;s independence would be preserved.</p>
<p>Why not? Time for creative thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: PaulL</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/the_price_of_copper.html/comment-page-1#comment-1061442</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2012 04:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69475#comment-1061442</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@lastmanstanding: two different things, you&#039;re picking the wrong answer to the wrong problem.

1.  Should the govt artificially hold up minimum prices for copper, thereby allowing wholesale companies to make excess profits?  No.

2.  If the govt wants a successful fibre broadband, will it have to subsidise the entry costs of commercial players so that they can make a reasonable dollar out of it?  Probably, but that should be a direct and transparent subsidy, not a really inefficient minimum price that gives excess profits to commercial entities that may or may not be involved in the fibre rollout.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@lastmanstanding: two different things, you&#8217;re picking the wrong answer to the wrong problem.</p>
<p>1.  Should the govt artificially hold up minimum prices for copper, thereby allowing wholesale companies to make excess profits?  No.</p>
<p>2.  If the govt wants a successful fibre broadband, will it have to subsidise the entry costs of commercial players so that they can make a reasonable dollar out of it?  Probably, but that should be a direct and transparent subsidy, not a really inefficient minimum price that gives excess profits to commercial entities that may or may not be involved in the fibre rollout.</p>
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		<title>By: lastmanstanding</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/the_price_of_copper.html/comment-page-1#comment-1061400</link>
		<dc:creator>lastmanstanding</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2012 02:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69475#comment-1061400</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First a declaration of self interest. I am a benefical owner of Chorus shares.

If UFB roll out is gonna happen its gonna require dollars. the fairies wont provide UFB despite what the Socialist Party Green Party et al think.

If I and others are gonna pony up the dollars we expect a return on our dollars. We aint an ATM machine for those wanting UFB.

So either CC allows our company to charge prices that reflect the investment and allow an appropraite return on capital to we the owners of the company or we will take our dollars and go elsewhere.

And guess what morons, No UFB or a very much more expensive UFB than we the owners of Chorus will provide you with

Your choice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First a declaration of self interest. I am a benefical owner of Chorus shares.</p>
<p>If UFB roll out is gonna happen its gonna require dollars. the fairies wont provide UFB despite what the Socialist Party Green Party et al think.</p>
<p>If I and others are gonna pony up the dollars we expect a return on our dollars. We aint an ATM machine for those wanting UFB.</p>
<p>So either CC allows our company to charge prices that reflect the investment and allow an appropraite return on capital to we the owners of the company or we will take our dollars and go elsewhere.</p>
<p>And guess what morons, No UFB or a very much more expensive UFB than we the owners of Chorus will provide you with</p>
<p>Your choice.</p>
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		<title>By: phil.stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/the_price_of_copper.html/comment-page-1#comment-1061389</link>
		<dc:creator>phil.stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2012 02:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69475#comment-1061389</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Mike - you&#039;re not making sense. Did you mean to say &quot;set themselves up to fail by not forcing customers who can&#039;t even get fibre to subsidise others through inflated copper pricing&quot;?

Car analogy: Flash new model comes out, but isn&#039;t selling as well as dealers had hoped, so they get govt to tax everyone driving other cars in an attempt to make the new one look like a bargain. Oh, except you can only drive this new car in the major centres, and only in the nicer suburbs.

There. Fixed that for ya.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mike &#8211; you&#8217;re not making sense. Did you mean to say &#8220;set themselves up to fail by not forcing customers who can&#8217;t even get fibre to subsidise others through inflated copper pricing&#8221;?</p>
<p>Car analogy: Flash new model comes out, but isn&#8217;t selling as well as dealers had hoped, so they get govt to tax everyone driving other cars in an attempt to make the new one look like a bargain. Oh, except you can only drive this new car in the major centres, and only in the nicer suburbs.</p>
<p>There. Fixed that for ya.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/the_price_of_copper.html/comment-page-1#comment-1061338</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2012 01:10:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69475#comment-1061338</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think if one takes issue with the Government intervening with the Commission&#039;s approach to setting the price of copy then one is taking issue with the Government&#039;s decision to invest in broadband.  Since the Government decided to go all in for that particular technology, they&#039;re going to look pretty stupid if it doesn&#039;t succeed.  Should they set themselves up to fail by not reducing the price of competing technologies?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if one takes issue with the Government intervening with the Commission&#8217;s approach to setting the price of copy then one is taking issue with the Government&#8217;s decision to invest in broadband.  Since the Government decided to go all in for that particular technology, they&#8217;re going to look pretty stupid if it doesn&#8217;t succeed.  Should they set themselves up to fail by not reducing the price of competing technologies?</p>
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		<title>By: phil.stevens</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/the_price_of_copper.html/comment-page-1#comment-1061278</link>
		<dc:creator>phil.stevens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2012 00:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69475#comment-1061278</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perfectly on form for this government. Don&#039;t like the message? Shoot the messenger. Don&#039;t agree with a policy decision rendered by the very body empowered in law to do so? Legislate over them. Conflict between shareholder profits and consumer prices? Screw the consumer. Local authority making resource management decisions according to what their electorate has mandated but counter to what a handful of influential interests wanted? Sack the council, impose a puppet regime and lie about the timeline for restoring representation to those who are still being taxed. Don&#039;t want to hear about the smartest and highest BCR solutions to transportation problems? Dismiss them and gesticulate wildly about the magical effects of more roads.

One of these days tens of thousands of sleepy hobbits will wake up. It will be too late then.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perfectly on form for this government. Don&#8217;t like the message? Shoot the messenger. Don&#8217;t agree with a policy decision rendered by the very body empowered in law to do so? Legislate over them. Conflict between shareholder profits and consumer prices? Screw the consumer. Local authority making resource management decisions according to what their electorate has mandated but counter to what a handful of influential interests wanted? Sack the council, impose a puppet regime and lie about the timeline for restoring representation to those who are still being taxed. Don&#8217;t want to hear about the smartest and highest BCR solutions to transportation problems? Dismiss them and gesticulate wildly about the magical effects of more roads.</p>
<p>One of these days tens of thousands of sleepy hobbits will wake up. It will be too late then.</p>
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		<title>By: PaulL</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/the_price_of_copper.html/comment-page-1#comment-1061257</link>
		<dc:creator>PaulL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 23:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69475#comment-1061257</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Harriet, it&#039;s about what you can buy with the money, not how many dollars you get.  If the price of everything goes up, then it doesn&#039;t help you that your pay went up by the same amount.  The classic fallacy of inflation.

Lower prices are definitely a good thing, to the extent that those lower prices are driven by technological and productivity improvements.  Lower prices driven entirely by removing profit from the system are not necessarily so attractive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harriet, it&#8217;s about what you can buy with the money, not how many dollars you get.  If the price of everything goes up, then it doesn&#8217;t help you that your pay went up by the same amount.  The classic fallacy of inflation.</p>
<p>Lower prices are definitely a good thing, to the extent that those lower prices are driven by technological and productivity improvements.  Lower prices driven entirely by removing profit from the system are not necessarily so attractive.</p>
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		<title>By: Harriet</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/the_price_of_copper.html/comment-page-1#comment-1061249</link>
		<dc:creator>Harriet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 23:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69475#comment-1061249</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;....Lower prices are a good thing....&quot;

And then we can all work for less. And shareholders can earn less. And the government earns less in taxes.

&quot;The wreckless pursuit of poverty&quot; springs to mind!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;.Lower prices are a good thing&#8230;.&#8221;</p>
<p>And then we can all work for less. And shareholders can earn less. And the government earns less in taxes.</p>
<p>&#8220;The wreckless pursuit of poverty&#8221; springs to mind!</p>
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		<title>By: dave_c_</title>
		<link>http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/12/the_price_of_copper.html/comment-page-1#comment-1061231</link>
		<dc:creator>dave_c_</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 23:07:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/?p=69475#comment-1061231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Most customers I know will always go for &quot;Best value for money&quot; options - It would be really disturbing if providers are seen to be charging near equivalence of price (or possibly even more) for &#039;older technology&#039; than new technology !]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most customers I know will always go for &#8220;Best value for money&#8221; options &#8211; It would be really disturbing if providers are seen to be charging near equivalence of price (or possibly even more) for &#8216;older technology&#8217; than new technology !</p>
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