Marzuka?

Wasn’t he the fool who used a photo of the blood spill that had been under the body of Stephen where he had lain for hours, and ‘proved’ it was Bains footprint?

Are you saying that the footlike blood print(outlined white in link bleow) in stephen’s room, a few metres from the other foot prints, which just happens to be pointing in the same direction and has the same footedness(ie right footed) as other prints, isn’t about the same length and shape as david’s foot note scale 300mm?

note location, directon, size and shape:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_zGKapt7iWLI/TSwQcCcBjaI/AAAAAAAAA5E/Peg0aFvCwcU/s0/bain%20footprint%20combo%20med.jpg

animated comparison of footlike print with david size foot versus robin:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_zGKapt7iWLI/TS7CQbpr_yI/AAAAAAAAA58/hLmE5a_Ba0Q/s0/bain-foot-anim3.gif

Who has a clip of the old man’s ‘murder’ where he starts out close to the floor but his body then moves up and across the beanbag with his left leg suddenly becoming straight?

which frames are you refering to?

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0j3EJWKaVSI/UNA2ipsDYhI/AAAAAAAABgA/frC9Z24My5c/s0/bain%2520headshot%25205b.jpg

Who then has a clip of the suicide where the body falls in on itself?

lol, as a body does when having virtually zero net horizontal momentum when it ceases to function as a living body. Of course I understand that you prefer magically transfering robin centre of mass over a metre away like the defense thinks is feasible in their twilight zone physics world…

Actually don’t recall doing a clip of defense’s suicide scenario, but I do rememeber doing a simulation that shows the defense notion of physics regarding centre of mass is utterly flawed. If you your scenario best fits the evidence I’ll be happy to to update the similuation. So, What are you calculations/numbers regarding:

Robin’s initial centre of mass velocity/height/distance for curtain.
Robin’s final centre of mass delta ie difference from initial.
robin’s peak centre of mass velocity.
Also just curious, is Robin’s centre of mass closer to the curtain with his leg lift up on chair or with it straight down and which way is the force vector under his weight acting?

Anyways, i’ll put you answers into my sim under “Kanz’s Physic lesson” in the sim examples for the world to see and compare.

http://marzuka.x10.mx/trademe/javascript/bain%20sim%201.06/bain%20sim.htm

Cheerio

marzurka
Where you been?

Hmm, good question where have I been…

Hey ,I’ve copied those links and will send them to the other Judith,hope that’s ok with you.
Once she sees them it will be case closed.

LoL. It’s all public domain, go for it.

Cheerio

Hi Kanz,

As Judith said, so many errors not worth even talking about. I will bite and answer one.
You have made the point before that there would be little force coming from the gunshot. How then does he, on your ‘behind the curtain ambush’ have the old man’s body, starting close to the floor, suddenly move the head up then down again to get that far, and the left leg, the most bent one, suddenly shoot out to be straight?

Simple. He’s trying to avoid getting shot ie trying to move away – how would you react to a gun in your face? Probably Your head would flinch away you hand defensively react and your Legs being levers would push upwards and out of relative crouch. All these creating momentum you away from curtains even after bullet is delivered. This is crucial and something defenss static equilibrium chair balancing contortion cannot achieve.

Actually you’ll see in my sim that Robin acting defensively ends up quite like actual resting position, unlike the defenses drop like a stone suicide scenario with an utterly inconsistent centre of mass over a metre away from actuality.

see sim exaple robin acting defensively:
http://marzuka.x10.mx/trademe/javascript/bain%20sim%201.06/bain%20sim.htm

ross69 (1,898) Says:
January 29th, 2013 at 8:19 am
The indentation looks quite severe when you enlarge the photo.

A small pimple can look “quite severe” when enlarged too

Unlike a pimple though, the mark is of right size, shape and position for glasses even though according to david glasses hadn’t been worn for days. Fortunately even judith implicitly concurs is a mark from wearing glasses.

note how similar to nose pad the mark is:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-i5OGnHXDbY0/UOKCZrf3E7I/AAAAAAAABiw/O47s61lKA0Y/s800/bain%2520glasses6.jpg

This is all academic now anyway.
Ian Binnie found, using the prosecution evidence and setting it out very clearly, that the bloody footprint was the old man’s. That can never again be explained away. If you like, it is the shell case in the Thomas case.

Did david show binnie his foot. Do we know david’s toeless foot length? if david’s toeless foot length was around 240mm like the toeless prints were what would you think then?

Seems to me this is quite likely:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-26HtE3L6n_Q/UOaKqJ2Lv1I/AAAAAAAABjs/ZX1GBHAK58k/s1200/bain%252520footprint6b.jpg

ciao

Sorry for rank tardiness.

You did a wonderful job Marzuka

thanks )

unfortunately they are so full of errors, it’s a bit difficult to know where to start.

damn [

Even I, with my limited graphics experience know that photos can be manipulated to make anything fit within a defined area. Hence your photos of the foot prints mean nothing.

So you’re cofident David’s actual toeless measurement contradict my analysis.

You do not have the original negative, or photo to work from, therefore, you do not know whether your sizing is correct etc etc.

Does one need negative to know that david’s foot was 300mm lengthwise as per sclae in my picture? That toeless print was 240mm as per sclae in my picture? Are you saying my scales are flawed ie the RELATIVE measures 300/240/280/20 are not proportionate?

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-26HtE3L6n_Q/UOaKqJ2Lv1I/AAAAAAAABjs/ZX1GBHAK58k/s1200/bain%252520footprint6b.jpg

So sorry, no points there at all.

Do I get points for the right measurements? What about points for mooting the possibility thats david’s toeless foot is of order 240mm?

Oh yeah, and at least two of the photos you have used for the blood prints are not the ones used in court. are they from the scene.

Which two? Are they relavant to the issue of david’s foot size? Is foot size relevant to this case?

So given onus on David to prove himself, you’d agree with me would be cool to see toeless foot right? Should get the truth to get some papparazzi shots of the foot in question for a front page exclusive lol….

Your last example using the defenses scenario, is NOT using the defenses scenario at all, and makes no account for the positioning of the blood spatter on Robin Bain.

the last sim is not the defense scenario it is robin avoiding murder, maybe you’re refering to the spaghetti modes which are probably more physically compatible with defense lol?

The defense maintains that Robin Bain was standing with his right leg bent at the knee and foot on the chair, he was standing in front of, not next too. The left leg was straight. This position is supported by the multi-directional pattern of the blood spatter. With this position, as the body collapsed, the right leg on the chair would interfere with the forwards movement, and eventually take the body backwards and result in it falling to the right.

I’ve actually Simulated that too. With respect to that was hoping you would offer you views regarding this, which I’ll add to the simulation so everyone can compare with actual simulation results.

Anyways, as per defenses scenario what’s:

Robin’s initial centre of mass velocity/height/distance for curtain.
Robin’s final centre of mass delta ie difference from initial.
robin’s peak centre of mass velocity.
Also is Robin’s centre of mass closer to the curtain with his leg lift up on chair or with it straight down.

I’ll called this Sim example “Judith Rocks!”

You also fail to account for the trajectory of the bullet.

My sim lets you shoot at any angle try direction mode. The gun is initialised to to left and up ie biased to favour defense but doesn’t show in psuedo recoil modes – again opt for directional to see where pointing and use keys to reposition if want.

which whilst not making a huge different in the direction of the body, when applied to the head, slightly alters the centre of body mass, and influences the direction of collapse. (No, body’s do not ‘fly across rooms when shot). Also, where you have the body does not explain the blood spatter pattern on the curtains.

So your determination of the head position in my sim is what in height/distance from curtain in metres?

The final position of Robin’s body is actual no more than 30cms from where he stood. Your photos are taken from an angle that does not show that, but video and other photos demonstrate it nicely.

So you are saying the final Centre of Mass position is only 30cm for inital centre of mass? You agree centre of mass is of crucial physical relevance right?

Your so called ”indentation” , is typical on any person who has worn glasses for sometime, of which the nose arch pads fit snuggly. It remains permanently even when the glasses are removed and not worn for sometime. What were you trying to proof, that David Bain wore glasses? We knew that already. I have such an indentation, but I only wear glasses for distance viewing, so when watching TV. The majority of my work is up close reading, computer work, talking to people etc. So even though I wear glasses no more than 10% of the day, and sometimes not for several days, that mark remains. Not obvious until you look close, just like the one you point out, but certainly not a sign of being in any struggle with a person.

permanently? Hmmm that’s not what I’ve noticed on myself or others which I tested. Do your sock marks persist permanently too? So given you yourself implicitly concur he has mark consistent with wearing glasses and given the onus in on david is to prove his his innocence, it would be a reasonably legitimate test to remove his glasses for a few days to rule out the possibility right?

I too, even as an amateur could play around with photos and come up with what you have. Be proud of the fact that you can, but in all honesty, what you have produced is not supported by the factual evidence. I suggest you actually source the original photos (oh wait you can’t the police threw them out).

So the photos aren’t evidence of anything unless they’re originals? and any marks, bruises correlations in such photos aren’t evidence either? Does adding actual qualifying measurements from expert testimony give any evidentiary weight to non original photos?

As far as your David behind the curtain video. That completely opposes both the trajectory and the blood spatter on Robin, and also the blood spatter on the curtains.

How?

I have told you before, if you can’t match it to the actual physical blood spatter etc, you’ve wasted your time

actually I have a blood splatter model too – which you obviously haven’t seen – that is why I mentioned it in my previous post about where the lines correlating blood splatter end up in my graphic you used.- Anyways, thanks again though for using my pathetic graphic attempts am honoured.

Cheerio

PS If have better name for you sim example do say.

Judith (1,159) Says:

January 30th, 2013 at 4:59 pm
muggins (1,815) Says:
January 30th, 2013 at 4:52 pm
———————

Muggins, there were more than 2000 photos taken. Only a small percentage were shown in Court.
Get over yourself. You haven’t phoned anyone, you don’t know what you are talking about (if you did you’d know how many photos were taken) and you are too stupid to realise that Ms Collins will not get to ask David any thing like the question you suggested.

Judith,stop lying.
If there was a photo of Bain’s torso it would have been shown, otherwise why would the defence be asking about those scratches? They could have just asked for that photo you are lying about.
And of course Bain will be asked questions. Not by Judith Collins, I was only winding you up.
But ,just so we are quite clear on this.
I phoned four police officers in Dunedin.
Two said they did not see Bain naked, but they both said they was out of the room for a few minutes.
The third said I would have to go through his boss, which I did.
I had to email a request for official information which I did.
I received an email back saying that the third police officer had been in the doorway all the time that Pryde was examining Bain and that he was never naked. He was always in possession of a blanket. I understand it was the same blanket as he had over him when he was put in that ambulance.
And I reckon he was able to hide those scratches on his torso by deft manipulation of that blanket.

Do you understand?

Judith (1,152) Says:

January 30th, 2013 at 4:42 pm
muggins (1,813) Says:
January 30th, 2013 at 4:36 pm
————————–

Where did I say there was a photo of his torso. I said there was a photo of the tattoo, in which you can see he isn’t wearing a shirt over his torso. It’s not a photo of his torso, but you can see it.

Judith,please try to stop lying. There was no photo of that tattoo,otherwise it would have been produced in court.
And Dr Pryde can’t be blamed because David Bain deliberately hid that tattoo from him.

I hope Judith Collins asks Bain about that.

muggins (1,813) Says:
January 30th, 2013 at 4:36 pm
————————–

Where did I say there was a photo of his torso. I said there was a photo of the tattoo, in which you can see he isn’t wearing a shirt over his torso. It’s not a photo of his torso, but you can see it.

I understand that you are lying, there was no phone call. You are either delusional or expect us all to be as stupid as your other friends. Those police officers would have been made to give evidence at the trials if it existed, because this issue was discussed in Court.

Plus, Dr Pryde’s evidence proves you are lying too. Go away and phone another friend or ask the audience. They are probably stupid enough to believe you. Commonsense and Dr Pryde prove you wrong.

Good thing for you, that you are wrong though, if Dr Pryde lied and falsified documentation, which you are accusing him of, then David Bain would have another issue to support his court action – more serious misconduct by the Crown.

‘Ding Ding’ KACHING $$$$$

This is a shame because clearly people here have a passion for this debate and have access to information or sources that others do not. They are in a position to provide greater insight. Instead, they have, to use a technical term, fucked it all up. End of thread for me.

January 30th, 2013 at 4:34 pm
It seems Joe doesn’t want David to get compo after all. Joe probably realised that with all of David’s lies to Binnie he had no show of getting a brass razoo. Judith Collins should gladly reciprocate

Yep, it will give Judith Collins a chance to ask David why he told all those lies to Binnie. What a hoot.

Judith (1,151) Says:

January 30th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
muggins (1,807) Says:
January 30th, 2013 at 3:18 pm

I understand the blanket Bain had covering him when he was placed in the ambulance was the blanket he was wearing when Dr Pryde examined him. It would have been no problem for him to keep his upper torso covered.
Piece of cake.

But his torso isn’t covered in the photo.

And why would he reveal his chest to the photographer, and not to Dr Pryde?

And why hasn’t that photographer come forward and said he saw something, after all, he would have been called to give testimony regarding taking photos?

.

However, we know the Doctor took intimate swabs and other tests which required the exposure of David Bain’s body, however, the witnesses you ‘say’ you have, never described that. So are you now saying that they didn’t happen either?

I think you are talking rubbish, there are no ‘police officers’ that you have phoned.

Judith, please stop lying. There were no photos taken of David Bain’s torso. If there had been they would have been produced at the retrial.
I only asked the police if David Bain was naked and if there was something on that diagram that could have been that tattoo. I was told he was never naked, but that Dr Pryde had shaded in an area where that tattoo was.
Do you understand?

Of course they only wanted to save the country money by expecting a settlement.

A KFC family pack?

I was just saying the other day lol………………

goldnkiwi (148) Says:
January 30th, 2013 at 4:19 pm

Obviously not confident of a panels decision. Of course they only wanted to save the country money by expecting a settlement.

What ever happened to parliamentary discretion?

Watch the news tonight. With luck they may explain in words of one syllable so you can understand.

Kanz (824) Says:
January 30th, 2013 at 4:06 pm
More…..

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8242038/Bain-seeks-judicial-review

—————————————–

WAHOO!!!! GO DAVID !!!!! NICE ONE JOE !!!!!!!

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