General Debate 11 January 2013

January 11th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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55 Responses to “General Debate 11 January 2013”

  1. Nookin (2,891 comments) says:

    It’s stopped raining! Wonder how long that will last.

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  2. Manolo (12,643 comments) says:

    Could the US free this terrorist? http://michellemalkin.com/2013/01/09/the-blind-sheik-and-our-mute-president/

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  3. hj (5,708 comments) says:

    Mombiot boots Abbot in the kisser:
    http://WWW.MOMBIOT.COM

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  4. Pongo (356 comments) says:

    Why has there been no coverage about the Met office confirming no global warming since 1998 and then admitting none for the next 5 years. Its on the BBC. TELEGRAPH. daily mail etc.

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  5. hj (5,708 comments) says:

    http://Www.monbiot.com

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  6. hmmokrightitis (1,458 comments) says:

    Links Pongo? I have fervent warming friends I wish to taunt :)

    Thanks.

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  7. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    It must be global warming!

    The Victorian Bushfires: How Environmentalism Leads to Disaster

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  8. Pete George (21,830 comments) says:

    A banning at The Standard is not unusual, but yesterday lprent’s increasing authoritarism took a new twist.

    ‘Morrissey’ took a swipe at an author, they dealt with (and warned) ‘Morrissey’ (who apologised), but then lprent stepped in and overrode that – “4 week ban to discourage any repitition of this behaviour”.

    lprent has been open about his behaviour control through ‘moderation’. But then he took it to a new level.

    Someone posted a comment supporting Morrissey. They were also banned – being friends of the victim also appears to be discouraged, a widening of the behaviour control.

    But at the same Morrissey’s ban was doubled, through no action of his own. It seems that being friends of designated enemies of The Standard is also now verboten.

    And there are parallels between Labour leadership message (and messenger) control and the ‘moderation’ at The Standard. You’d almost think Clare and Lynn were working from the same script.

    The Standard and Labour authoritarism and censorship.

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  9. Falafulu Fisi (2,176 comments) says:

    Pete George, it is not authoritarian. Jeez, it is his private blog, man. You’re complaining as if Lprent is the government. When government does it, then it is authoritarian. If a private citizen is doing it because it is his property, then it is his own right to do that. You’re whining too much man.

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  10. hmmokrightitis (1,458 comments) says:

    What fisi said Pete. When will you click that just because the best damned sysop in the whole damned world thinks with his tiny little left wing todger its a bad thing? For me it just highlights the whole hypocrisy of things left. “We will support freedom of speech and thought.” Like fuck they will – unless its on message and then youre on a short rope.

    Just enjoy watching them eat themselves. Its free and delightful.

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  11. Pete George (21,830 comments) says:

    FF – I agree (and say in my post) that a blog owner can do what they like with their blog.

    But The Standard promotes itself as the voice of the broad left. lprent has been raising his profile of boss of The Standard at the same time that his blog has been getting more media attention. They want to be seen as influential on the left and influential in the media.

    And at the same time they (in parallel with Labour leadership) are becoming more paranoid about criticism and are squashing any perceived dissent. They both want to try and modify behaviour of people discussing them in forums.

    I think that’s of interest in the whole context of political forums and therefore it’s quite relevant here. The contrast with the open discussion here is significant. lprent refers to Kiwiblog as ‘the sewer’. At least most shit is allowed to flow freely here. lprent is trying to control which arseholes contribute to his constipation.

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  12. Manolo (12,643 comments) says:

    Some buggers are obsessed with Bain, P.G. with The sub-Standard and girly lprent. :-)

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  13. Redbaiter (6,482 comments) says:

    Fala is right. You go there yiu do so of your own volition and under that volition you agree to subject yourself to the personal vagaries of the owner.

    Although on occasions this system is disrupted when the owner appoints moderators who (for example thedavaselinemode ) are particularly biased and issue demerits on occasions that the owner would consider unneccessary and are unjustified according to the posted guidelines.

    (And then those “moderators” spend weeks trying to justify their heavy handed actions.)

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  14. Pete George (21,830 comments) says:

    hmmokrightitis – while lprent is in control I think you will be able to continue to “enjoy watching them eat themselves”.

    But I think that’s a shame. I’d like to see the left with a major forum that promotes and encourages widespread open discussion, that would be healthy for politics in general. Labour and The Standard are doing a disservice to New Zealand politics as they increase efforts to suppress dissent. I think that’s bad for the country.

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  15. hmmokrightitis (1,458 comments) says:

    I think most thinking people would, on a mere 5 minutes of reading, understand the hollow ring of lynda calling KB the sewer.

    I too wear my banning from there with pride – but I havent been there in months, I used to come away feeling so negative and depressed – seriously. But then thats socialism for you.

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  16. hmmokrightitis (1,458 comments) says:

    TBH, I dont think your wish is feasible Pete. I honestly dont think the left is capable of open and honest dialogue. Because then you start to understand how shallow and corrupt that message really is – hence why they try and shut down debate so quickly.

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  17. thedavincimode (6,133 comments) says:

    baitey

    You didn’t answer my question. Why did you describe Obama’s wife as a gorilla?

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  18. iMP (2,154 comments) says:

    Looks like the logic and arguments about polygamy and other sexualities in relation to Wall’s Redefining Marriage bill are starting to bite.

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/01/11/the-polygamy-war-continued/

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  19. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    Manolo (8,657) Says:
    January 11th, 2013 at 8:05 am

    Could the US free this terrorist? http://michellemalkin.com/2013/01/09/the-blind-sheik-and-our-mute-president/

    lol. Talk about living in a conspiracy theorist echo chamber. Yup Obama’s a secret Muslim terrorist hell bent on waging Jihad on the United States. The GOP gets more retarded by the day.

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  20. Tauhei Notts (1,511 comments) says:

    I wonder if I am the only person who finds Toby Manhire’s writing to be silly.
    He writes;
    “…..more pilots are now recruited to fly unmanned aircraft than conventional fighter planes.”
    It is too early in the day for me to seek Captain Morgan’s assistance in deciphering that drivel.

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  21. Pete George (21,830 comments) says:

    But then thats socialism for you.

    To an extent that’s correct. The ‘collective’ of The Standard is tending towards Bullshevism with a manical self appointed leader.

    There are also ironies. The Standard represents the left of Labour where most talk is of dragging Labour to the left towards more socialism.

    Labour leadership is trying to stay/go centre left to pick up important centre votes. Even their housing policy favours centre NZ over the bottom 20% who will never own their own homes.

    But they both want to impose forms of socialism by dictating from the top. While they appeal to the compliant silent masses.

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  22. Redbaiter (6,482 comments) says:

    Weihana is one of those people who ran down to the beach to find out what was happening when the tsunami was coming in.

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  23. Redbaiter (6,482 comments) says:

    BTW Weihana, Malkin is no friend of the GOP. You must not know much of what is going on to think she is.

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  24. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    Pete George,

    But I think that’s a shame. I’d like to see the left with a major forum that promotes and encourages widespread open discussion, that would be healthy for politics in general. Labour and The Standard are doing a disservice to New Zealand politics as they increase efforts to suppress dissent. I think that’s bad for the country.

    Meh.. it’s all subjective. Every blog and every forum has its own standards (except maybe usenet). I’m sure I could come up with a half dozen vile and disgusting viewpoints and get banned on this blog as I would on any blog. So the fact that some left blogs have a different line doesn’t change the fact that there is still a line drawn somewhere by the owner of whoever runs the forum.

    Freedom of speech resides in the freedom to purchase one’s own server and to manage one’s own website to say whatever the hell one wants. Other than that you operate within the standards set by someone else.

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  25. Andrei (2,431 comments) says:

    Freedom of speech resides in the freedom to purchase one’s own server and to manage one’s own website

    Even then there are limits Weihana – but we fo the most part agree with those limits when it comes to pedophilia or cruelty.

    There are some things that thankfully are for now unacceptable

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  26. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (1,829) Says:
    January 11th, 2013 at 9:08 am

    BTW Weihana, Malkin is no friend of the GOP. You must not know much of what is going on to think she is.

    Right… I’m sure she’s an “independent”. There’s a lot of conservative “independents”. Strangely they never vote Democrat.

    BTW, I have no qualms about not being up-to-date on all things Malkin.

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  27. Pete George (21,830 comments) says:

    There are some gems today at TS. Apart from Hooten getting called on an attempted sly slur there’s…

    bad12:

    I doubt whether you have actually even met a genuine ‘member of the left’ so as to give you the perspective to judge who genuinely holds left-wing views,

    I think you should crawl back into the dark spaces of the smelly, slime encrusted sewers which is your normal habitat and desist from provoking the likes of me to amounts of anger that at the least are bad for my health…

    higherstandard: I’m always interested what people think is a “genuine member” of the left or right, as one who is generally accused of being a RWNJ on this site could you enlighten me.

    bad12: F off over to the sewer, there is that enough ‘enlightenment’ for you…

    higherstandard: Very enlightening.

    bad12:
    Here, this might help, STFU, F off over to the Sewer where you will be aquainted with the definition of any number of Right Wing Nut Jobs,

    Read the pages of the Standard and you will be aquainted with the wide ranging views of ‘genuine lefty’s plus the views of the odd Right Wing Nut Job, even a 5 year old could spot the difference…

    Fairly typical – unwelcome unless deemed a ‘genuine lefty’. And if “you’re not with us so you’re against us” then fuck off. TS does a good job of discouraging potential Labour voters – I think the leadership recognises this, except that they ignore it and do the same thing themselves.

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  28. nasska (9,558 comments) says:

    hmmokrightitis

    http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/climate/seasonal-to-decadal/long-range/decadal-fc

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  29. Redbaiter (6,482 comments) says:

    “BTW, I have no qualms about not being up-to-date on all things Malkin.”

    Ok well it didn’t seem that way when you above proscribed views she expressed to the GOP.

    The GOP are like National and collaborators with the Democrats long term assault on the foundations of the USA.

    If they had a few like Michelle Malkin among them they might amount to something.

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  30. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    Andrei (1,588) Says:
    January 11th, 2013 at 9:14 am

    Freedom of speech resides in the freedom to purchase one’s own server and to manage one’s own website

    Even then there are limits Weihana

    Agreed. I would say those limits are when one’s speech intentionally causes direct and identifiable harm to someone else.

    – but we fo the most part agree with those limits when it comes to pedophilia or cruelty.

    There are some things that thankfully are for now unacceptable

    Depends what you are talking about. If you are talking about the incitement of specific harmful acts then yes I would agree but that is not limited to paedophilia or cruelty. On the other hand general advocacy of any concept should be permitted no matter how vulgar.

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  31. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    Redbaiter,

    Yes… more nutbars like her and we can be assured of a Democratic victory in the house despite the gerrymandering.

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  32. Andrei (2,431 comments) says:

    On the other hand general advocacy of any concept should be permitted no matter how vulgar.

    Should be permitted? We live in the age of thought crimes Weihana

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  33. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    Andrei,

    From a quick read of the article I see no indication that Giglio was prosecuted for his opinion or otherwise suffered some form of legal sanction.

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  34. Andrei (2,431 comments) says:

    I see no indication that Giglio was prosecuted for his opinion or otherwise suffered some form of legal sanction.

    No – but he has been sent to Coventry and the message sent loud and clear that articulating the standard Christian position is unacceptable in this modern age.

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  35. Scott Chris (5,682 comments) says:

    No – but he has been sent to Coventry and the message sent loud and clear that articulating the standard Christian position is unacceptable in this modern age.

    That’s how the free speech mechanism works. If only society had the sense to marginalize astrological and homeopathic opinions as well.

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  36. Pete George (21,830 comments) says:

    Chris Trotter snorts at the arguments against an asset sale mandate in his latest column.

    National’s claim to a specific mandate for its asset sales programme is, accordingly, very strong. The policy was announced nearly a year before the election and was subjected to the intense scrutiny of not only the parliamentary opposition, but also the news media and a broad cross-section of civil society.

    National and its allies played by these rules and won. Their performance referendum is scheduled for 2014, and it’s binding.

    This raises a bigger issue – the performance referendum in 2014. If it results in a Labour-Green win is the Green Party machine in a position to steamroll over Labour and dictate the terms of the next term?

    The asset sales mandate, and how the Green Machine may steamroll Labour

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  37. Bill (86 comments) says:

    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/spooks-in-spotlight.html?m=1

    Chris Trotter says that David Shearer is another Roger Douglas.

    “Were Shearer to openly declare his intention of becoming a “hands on” neoliberal policy aggressor, eager to deploy all the powers of the state to bulldoze new pathways for advancing market power, the Labour Party membership would rise up in angry revolt. Small wonder, then, that Shearer stumbles and mumbles: all of his mental energy is devoted to masking rather than revealing his true “

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  38. Bill (86 comments) says:

    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/behind-mask-whos-backing-david-shearer.html?m=1

    Oops wrong link.

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  39. Pete George (21,830 comments) says:

    “the Labour Party membership would rise up in angry revolt”

    Not likely. Some of them would for sure – in fact some of them are revolting (or trying to) now, for example at The Standard but they are only one faction of the party.

    But Shearer’s mumblemasking seems to be accepted as ok by a significant number of pollees, some of whom presumably will be Labour Party members.

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  40. RightNow (6,350 comments) says:

    Oh no, thick Arctic sea ice is endangering a group of killer whales near Canada!
    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/01/killer-whales-trapped-under-canadian-sea-ice/

    Will global warming act fast enough to save the whales?

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  41. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Agw and whales going all green on us right now

    Can we send you whales to England there cows are a little bit wet and whales like the wet

    According to the Met Office just under 2in of rain is needed to fall before December 31 to make this year the wettest on record for Britain overall. The country saw 1,291.2mm (just under 51in) of rain between January 1 to December 26, compared with the wettest year on record, 2000, when 1,337.3mm (just over 52½ inches) fell.

    A new record has already been set for England with 1,095.8mm (just over 43in) falling between January 1 and Boxing Day.

    Dont you hate climate extremes like the alarmist keep forecasting of course they are wrong and they just make it up

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/08/hottest-on-record-2012-america

    Figures show 2012 was a full degree Fahrenheit hotter than 1998 record – and scientists say they expect more of the same

    when will they stop lying about climate change its not going to happen its a big conspiracy

    http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/29/world/europe/climate-ice-sheets/index.html

    They concluded that Greenland and two of the three ice sheets that cover Antarctica have lost an estimated 237 billion metric tons, give or take a few billion, in the past 19 years

    it will never happen :lol:

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  42. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    I enjoy seeing how Griff avoids mention of the SUN as a contributor to global temperatures. He believes it is all down to trace gas in our atmosphere, not that huge nuclear furnace blasting us…. Funny little fella. :)

    Based on Griffs construction, it would be just as warm at night, as it is at midday. (so long as co2 levels remain the same)

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  43. RightNow (6,350 comments) says:

    Even if CO2 levels continue to rise at a linear rate, the increase in radiative forcing as calculated by NOAA is only enough to raise the temperature by a degree C per century.
    http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/aggi/

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  44. Manolo (12,643 comments) says:

    Yes, the same Sun he uses to dry his weed.

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  45. 103PapPap (116 comments) says:

    I see in the Register (http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2013/01/08/tech_firms_avoiding_corp_tax/) that American companies Oracle, Xerox, Dell, CSC and Symantec paid no corporate tax in the UK last year, despite winning a large number of Government business.

    Should the Government make, as part of issuing large IT contracts to USA companies, a condition that they abide by NZ tax rules, not the Cayman Islands or Luxembourg tax rules.

    This is particularly relevant seeing the IRD wants to buy Oracle for it’s new tax system at $1.5 billion. Oracle needs to pay NZ corporate tax on the profits of this deal.

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  46. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Gaslighting

    Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory, perception and sanity.[1] Instances may range simply from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.

    Rick Perry Betrays Texas on ‘Superhighway’ Deal with Spain

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  47. nasska (9,558 comments) says:

    Paying for the vote time coming up.

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tnf5b0au7yo5s8p/FreeShit.jpg

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  48. Steve (North Shore) (4,330 comments) says:

    Before I read all of GD today, it seems The Strandard is a main topic this morning.
    Lynda needs to get a life and stop the crybaby socialist crap. ‘Linda Sysop’ sounds like a porn actor, internet porn, code porn.
    The girl is up herself

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  49. nasska (9,558 comments) says:

    The publican said to me, “I’ve hired a bagpipes player for tonight.”

    “What’s the occasion?” I asked

    “I want to close early.”

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  50. RF (1,140 comments) says:

    Steve (North Shore). Re the wee darling LP. Small person with a small dick. Fits the profile of the mouse that roared. You have to feel sorry for little pricks such as him who get power crazy behind the scenes. Too scared to front people face to face so bans them from afar.

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  51. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Dear dear right now I read your entire Link,

    In the vain hope that one of you nutters can debate without telling porkers.

    you claim your link
    “shows Even if CO2 levels continue to rise at a linear rate, the increase in radiative forcing as calculated by NOAA is only enough to raise the temperature by a degree C per century.”

    Nope does not say that in your link no reference to temperature increases of one degree C like you say
    No, not their, nothing, nil, Nada, void ,empty, content less.
    Someones telling porkers again.

    It does have this
    http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/aggi/aggi_2012.fig3.png
    pretty picture that says radiative forcing has increased 40% since 1990

    If sane person was to state the increases in warmth from the modern state of the science predictions
    They would give 2.5 to 4 degrees C this century
    Not make up silly lies like a nutter.

    Still nutters dont need reality from outside their heads. its all in the voices that talk to them
    Their invisible anti climate change friend :lol:

    I see kea could not resist a squawk
    The sun is what warms the climate squawks the climate scientist dont know this
    so why dont you ring them up and tell them
    I am sure that they have not noticed the big red ball :lol:

    Nutters :lol:
    Who needs pot when you have nutters and their brain farts for fun.

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  52. Steve (North Shore) (4,330 comments) says:

    Arses (american asses)
    Well, how about some ‘ASSICONS?’
    Here goes:

    (_!_) a regular ass

    (__!__) a fat ass

    (!) a tight ass

    (_*_) an ass hole

    {_!_} a swishy ass

    (_o_) an ass that’s been around

    (_x_) kiss my ass

    (_X_) leave my ass alone

    (_zzz_) a tired ass

    (_E=mc2_) a smart ass

    (_$_) Money coming out of his ass

    (_?_) Dumb Ass

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  53. nasska (9,558 comments) says:

    She was tired of everyone thinking that blondes were stupid, and she didn’t like all these jokes. To end the injustice, she decided to prove to the world that she was smart. In order to prove herself, she chose to memorise the capital of every American state.
    It wasn’t an easy task, but she was determined and eventually managed to do it.
    A few days later she was in a bar, and heard a couple of men laughing at a blonde joke. This was the perfect opportunity to start righting all the wrongs that had been done to blondes in the past – she would set these men straight!
    Marching over at a rapid pace she announced, “It isn’t true that all blondes are stupid, and I will prove it. Just ask me the capital of any American state, and I will tell you what it is.”
    Although a little surprised, the men did challenge her and asked, “Ok, how about Arizona?”
    The blonde, after pausing for a moments thought, proudly gave the answer,“A”!

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  54. Rodders (1,790 comments) says:

    :)

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  55. Fletch (5,727 comments) says:

    Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making a victim doubt his or her own memory, perception and sanity.[1] Instances may range simply from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred, up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim.

    I believe it comes from the movie Gaslight, MGM (1944) starring Ingrid Bergman, Charles Boyer, where a man tries to convince his wife she is going crazy by moving things in their house etc. He is really a murderer returning to the scene of his crime searching for jewels.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslight_(1944_film)

    Steely Dan have a song based on on ‘gaslighting’ someone called Gaslighting Abbie.

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