General Debate 18 January 2013

January 18th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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177 Responses to “General Debate 18 January 2013”

  1. southtop (265 comments) says:

    Hmmmm ….. Will AGW take over or will Bereal win out?

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  2. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    It’s all “Seesaw” and we only have 8o years? of actual data the rest is historical and models. There is one aspect that people don’t take into account that’s the longview or beyond their actual lifetimes yet we can’t see beyond 5 years in our minds eye for our individual futures, what’s made climate change scary is we can’t see 5 years at all.

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  3. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Who would have thought that a device like the Galaxy note would be used today 15 years ago? Who can safely predict the next 15 years in development? There’s Kurzweils “Singularity” down to the start of the contraction of imports to a world run on renewables or will it?

    Oh, it does work.

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  4. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    Followers of the “religion of peace” and savages beyond description: http://www.france24.com/en/20130117-french-hostage-algeria-gas-plant-testimony-france24-exclusive

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  5. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Not likely southtop. Maybe bereal should learn to use the “page down” button.

    Mostly of you have probably seen Al Gores work of fiction. Here is a more temperate documentary, that includes IPCC scientists, the co-founder of Greenpeace, and a variety of other professionals who know about these things. It is well worth watching and covers all the important points. Watch it and decide for yourselves:

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  6. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Followers of the “religion of peace” and savages beyond description

    Manolo, I wonder why they did that ?

    After a punishing bombing campaign failed to halt the advance of al-Qaida-linked fighters, France pledged Tuesday to triple the size of its force in Mali, sending in hundreds more troops as it prepared for a land assault to dislodge the militants occupying the northern half of the country.

    http://stratrisks.com/geostrat/10395

    Obama has announced he will put his forces into 35 more African countries this year, in addition to his current Drone attacks and other military actions. (mostly un-reported by our left wing media) : http://stratrisks.com/geostrat/10011

    You tell me who is doing all the killing and who is the savage ? They are an invading force, murdering the locals. If they do not like it, they can go home.

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  7. Keeping Stock (10,340 comments) says:

    Who’s lying; Mike Hesson and David White? Or Shane Bond and Ross Taylor? They can’t both be right, and if David White thinks that it can all be explained away as a misunderstanding on Bond’s part, he is sadly mistaken.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/breaking-news-shane-bond-backs-ross.html

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  8. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    Birds of the same feather flock together: http://mg.co.za/article/2013-01-17-barack-obamas-half-brother-runs-for-kenyan-political-seat

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  9. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    KS

    NZ Cricket seems hellbent on outdoing the labour party for entertainment, weasel words and outright lies.

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  10. HB (321 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10859905

    “Prime Minister John Key was taken to hospital last night after fainting in front of a full restaurant in Christchurch”

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  11. HB (321 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10859849

    “PM says ‘hugely talented’ minister is one of National’s top communicators.”

    lol :D

    http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/11/14/education-minister-translated-redux/

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  12. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    Teach them when they are young: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10859857

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  13. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    You guys understand we are recalling some retired vets? and sending them to Egypt.

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  14. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    Masochism is alive and kicking: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8192559/Whale-butchering-horrifies-onlookers

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  15. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Ahh…so it was the coppers fault …he should have followed procedure…Im with ya now..

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8192899/Beaten-officer-did-not-follow-procedure

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  16. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    ” One man became aggressive, telling officials they had no right to carve up iwi ancestors. ”

    Comedy gold Manolo !

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  17. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Kudos to Paula Bennett…..recipients of the DPB total 5000 less for the year ending Dec 2012 compared with a year ago & the number of people receiving any type of benefit has dropped as well. Ref: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10859853

    It represents a huge saving for the country.

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  18. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    It’s interesting to see what clips Youtube suggests that are related to the one on view.

    KIA linked to:
    – The great global warming swindle
    Suggested:
    – CIA insider tells 911 truth
    – The men who killed Kennedy
    – 9/11 truth – Hollywood speaks out
    – Fall of the Republic
    – The Great Global Warming Swindle
    – Conspiracy Theory w/ Jesse Ventura
    – THIS IS WHAT REALLY HAPPENED ON 911!!!
    – Al Gore’s inconvenient SCAM, lies versus lord
    – Global warming hoax, planned in 1961
    – Invisible Empire – A New World Order Defined

    An insight into like minds?

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  19. Griff (7,715 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10859853

    Overall, there were nearly 340,000 people on benefits at the end of December 2012 – 13,600 fewer than in 2010.

    Green Party co-leader Metiria Turei said she was sceptical about whether those dropping off the benefit were going into jobs or had simply been forced off by the Government’s harder line policies, including requiring those on the unemployment benefit to reapply every year.

    Its Hard line to have to reapply yearly.
    FFS one trip to the dole office in a year is hardly a hard line policy as presented.

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  20. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    It’s interesting to see what clips Youtube suggests that are related to the one on view.

    Those suggestions are based on YOUR VIEWING HISTORY lol :)

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  21. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    I have been saying John Key is ill for a very long time. Many in America would have shared my view. They are not ignorant re sanpaku eyes the way so many NZers are. I hope he gets more thoroughly checked out.

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  22. ex-golfer (161 comments) says:

    Kea (1,703) Says:
    January 18th, 2013 at 9:26 am
    It’s interesting to see what clips Youtube suggests that are related to the one on view.

    Those suggestions are based on YOUR VIEWING HISTORY lol

    Epic Fail Kea – they are NOT based on viewing history.
    They are based on like-for-like videos.

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  23. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Didnt david white make a complete cock of himself when speaking about the bond letter. i havent really been following it but the arrogance of this guy astounds me.

    id take Shane “good bastard” Bonds word over shit head white.

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  24. Griff (7,715 comments) says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanpaku

    There is currently no scientific evidence that supports the existence of the sanpaku eyes phenomenon. There is also no evidence to suggest that many of the listed conditions, such as the overconsumption of grain, are related to sclera visibility. Additionally, searching the term “sanpaku” does not yield any results in any mainstream psychological or medical journals.

    another anti science myth exposed

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  25. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    ex-golfer, yeah they are. Well a bit of both actually.

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  26. wreck1080 (3,917 comments) says:

    I can’t see that NZ will ever ditch the queen and adopt a constitution.

    Reasons are outlined in todays herald article…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10859789

    Given the maori anger over the water rights issue, imagine what they would try to squeeze out of a constitution!

    Maori have made modernisation of the nation near impossible and too costly at best.

    The world will move on and maori will be blocking progress by taking everyone to court for disturbing a taniwha here and there.

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  27. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    The current views of Maoridom and progress are almost impossible to reconcile.
    The tribal elites are driven by greed for themselves, not for the people they falsely claim to represent.

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  28. ex-golfer (161 comments) says:

    Kea – nope.
    Out of interest I clicked on your link.
    The related videos were almost exactly the same as those that PG listed.
    And I HAVE NEVER viewed such videos on YouTube before.
    They ARE NOT based on viewing history.
    No matter how you spin it.

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  29. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Those suggestions are based on YOUR VIEWING HISTORY lol

    As per ex-golfer, no.

    In any case I haven’t viewed any of those videos. You obviously have Kea.

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  30. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    ex-golfer, do you have a Youtube account ?

    Generally they tend to group similar videos, but often have others on different topics, if you have an account.

    BTW… have you actually watched the movie ?

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  31. Griff (7,715 comments) says:

    ex-golfer
    I would suggest that posting when squawk talks fact would be far more instructive to those of us that no longer have his rubbish cluttering the screen. It must happen due to the typing monkeys factor. The odds are that after around 10,000,000,000 posts he will get one thing right.

    Still I am glad to see he is still making a frequent arse of himself. It reinforces the fact that his views are not based on the real world.

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  32. ex-golfer (161 comments) says:

    David White continues to dig a large hole for himself and does himself no favours every time he opens his mouth.
    Its pretty clear that Hesson has driven a wedge between himself and anyone else who does not agree with him.
    As usual there will be a post tour review when the Black Caps return from South Africa.
    Hesson and the ill-equipped Bob Carter must go closely followed by Mike Sandler.
    But given how close the England home-series is I doubt NZ Cricket will have the collective balls to do it.
    Mollar needs to start doing his job.

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  33. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    Still I am glad to see he is still making a frequent arse of himself. It reinforces the fact that his views are not based on the real world.

    The Luddite alarmist speaking in front of a mirror.

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  34. ex-golfer (161 comments) says:

    Kea – yes I do and no I didn’t.

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  35. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Manolo, he has new trick, he puts his fingers in his ears and his head up his arse. That way he is not exposed to any views other than his own. He can then kick back with a joint, content that the world is put right.

    But reality will march on, with or without Griff :)

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  36. meh (165 comments) says:

    Anyone who is in Wellington today might want to look up at about 12.15

    As a lead up to the Warbirds over Wairarapa Airshow at the weekend there will be a bit of activity over the city tomorrow (Friday).

    A formation comprising Mosquito (Keith Skilling), Spitfire (Gavin Trethewey) and P40 Kittyhawk (Liz Needham) plans to overfly the city and Wellington airport tomorrow at 1215. The flight will be extensively covered by press (including television) and aviation enthusiasts.

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  37. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    ex-golfer, well viewing information collected by Youtube/Google etc is not really the issue, though it is interesting.

    The information in the documentary is the issue. Of course some folk only like to hear existing views reinforced.

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  38. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Manolo (8,750) Says:

    Strange that whale link, the whale was dead and the jaw is a carvers dream. Whale bone is prized because of it’s rarity, there seem to be a disconnect with people today in their imaginings. The practice of bone removal is older than our country.

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  39. ex-golfer (161 comments) says:

    Something tells me that Buchanan is not exactly a fan of Hesson either (its already well known that he backs Ross Taylor).
    So who is really pulling the strings at NZ Cricket?
    What a mess.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/8192811/Buchanans-message-Sort-it-out-yourselves

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  40. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Griff
    It is a Japanese concept meaning three whites..Western psychologists recognize the condition but understand it in a very limited way..They describe a person whose eyes are sanpaku as having ”corpse eyes.” There is stacks of evidence and history on this condition..you just didn’t find it in Wikipedia.
    Go to any psych hospital or prison…a vast number of people in these places have sanpaku eyes..The anti psychotic medications which now many prisoners are also on , greatly increase the chances of having such eyes..Perhaps the new anti psychotics are not as bad as the old ones.
    Look at pictures of Princess Diana , JFK , Michael Jackson , and most islamic terrorists and you will see that they have this condition..three whites under their eyes.

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  41. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    A Chardonnay socialist continues his anti-mining crusade: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/tom-scott-cartoons/

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  42. Griff (7,715 comments) says:

    Luddite alarmist

    Are you channeling kea manalulu

    Luddite would be a reference that the person does not believe or support modern scientific knowledge.
    As squawk was continuously posting his intense dislike of computer modeling, which is a significant part of scientific endeavor today, I would suggest that is irrefutable proof that Griff is not the Luddite in this case.

    Alarmist is projecting that someone is giving warning. The scientific community gives warning frequently and loudly as to the risks inherent with global warming. Repeating these warnings is sounding a alarm to inform on the known result of global warming. As such I am Proud to wear the title.

    Cue many posts from the Luddites who confuse science with political spin. :lol: strident denial alert.

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  43. ex-golfer (161 comments) says:

    Kea – I probably have no problem with the video content as I agree that GW or whatever its called now is pretty much a swindle and scam.
    I was simply responding to your comment about viewing history.
    If its not really the issue, then why make the comment?

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  44. Andrei (2,652 comments) says:

    It’s interesting to see what clips Youtube suggests that are related to the one on view.

    KIA linked to:
    – The great global warming swindle
    Suggested:
    The Global Warming Lie – John Coleman
    Обман Обамы (США, 2009) рус. суб.
    Россия против сша. Бои без правил 2012 – Военная тайна.
    Рамзан Кадыров Мама звонит!
    Funny Futurama Clip

    Lol for some strange reason Youtube serve me up the same shit as it gives Pete George

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  45. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    joana (1,591) Says:
    January 18th, 2013 at 10:00 am

    I don’t suppose you would have a link to Sanpaku Joana? Sounds interesting.

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  46. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Poor old Obama looks sick.

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  47. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    If its not really the issue, then why make the comment?

    I was responding to the ever sanctimonious Pete George and having a stir ;)

    This is General Debate, so I can say pretty much what I like. So can you.

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  48. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    And it just gets funnier. David White responds to the leaked email from Bond. Pfft.

    Is it Shearer or Goofy who is giving him his PR and crisis management advice?

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  49. Fletch (6,389 comments) says:

    So this is where we’re up to in Britain: gangs of Muslim thugs going around threatening people, taking alcohol off them, telling women to cover up. Where will it end?

    Police are investigating reports a gang claiming to be Islamic vigilantes have been confronting members of the public and demanding they give up alcohol and women cover their flesh in their ‘Muslim area’.

    The hooded men, who call themselves Muslim Patrol, have been filmed walking London’s streets and calling white women ‘naked animals with no self respect.’

    The group is also shown taking ‘evil’ booze from revellers and film a cyclist being treated after a road accident, claiming they were injured because they were unclean.

    In one exchange a member of the group says: ‘We don’t care if you are appalled at all’, before calling themselves ‘vigilantes implementing Islam upon your own necks’.

    They have uploaded videos to their YouTube channel with the most recent three-minute clip causing a stir online.

    ‘The Truth About Saturday Night’, which was uploaded on Sunday, has already been viewed more than 42,000 times.

    Scotland Yard says it is investigating.

    It was shot on a mobile phone at night in what the Met say is Waltham Forest, London, with a number of men seen shouting ‘this is a Muslim area’ towards white Britons they’ve confronted.

    The video, which first appeared on The Commentator, states: ‘From women walking the street dressed like complete naked animals with no self respect, to drunk people carrying alcohol, to drunks being killed in the middle of the road, we try our best to capture and forbid it all.’

    One scene shows the hooded yobs forcing a passing man to put a can of lager away, telling the stunned gentleman they are the Muslim Patrol and that alcohol is a ‘forbidden evil’.

    They then tell a group of women ‘they need to forbid themselves from dressing like this and exposing themselves outside the mosque’.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2263905/Muslim-patrol-Hooded-vigilantes-walking-streets-London-telling-women-cover-taking-alcohol-hands-revellers-behave-Islamic-way.html

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  50. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    trivialrev, aka hinamanu, will love this: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/01/poll-obamas-hiding-something-86349.html

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  51. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    However, if the Muslim population of the UK wre to continue growing at the annual rate of 6.7% (as it did between 2004 and 2008), its share of of the total UK population would rise from just under 4% to 8% in 2020, 15% in 2030, 40% in 2040, finally passing the 50% mark in 2050.
    p. 290 of Civilization by Niall Ferguson.

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  52. Fletch (6,389 comments) says:

    This is the new ‘moderate’ leader in Egypt, Mohamed Morsi, in a video from 2010 (view at link below) saying –

    Dear brothers, we must not forget to nurse our children and grandchildren on hatred towards those Zionists and Jews, and all those who support them. They must be nursed on hatred. The hatred must continue.

    Just great. So much for the Arab Spring and democracy.
    Told you so – again.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/01/newly-released-video—-morsi-in-2010-we-must-not-forget-to-nurse-our-children-and-grandchildren-on.html

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  53. Fletch (6,389 comments) says:

    The video at link in my last post doesn’t seem to play – view youtube version here –

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  54. Andrei (2,652 comments) says:

    However, if the Muslim population of the UK wre to continue growing at the annual rate of 6.7% (as it did between 2004 and 2008), its share of of the total UK population would rise from just under 4% to 8% in 2020, 15% in 2030, 40% in 2040, finally passing the 50% mark in 2050.

    Manolo those of us who are awake know that Western Civilization is commiting suicide and is its death spiral.

    England is being conquered by the wombs of muslim women while the pressing issue that occupies the elites is why can’t “Nigel marry Timothy” and why women are under represented among the ranks of Englands cheif constables and how to address this imbalance.

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  55. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Fletch who is at war with secular society?

    Andrei, the rising number of Moslems includes immigrants.

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  56. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    In the parallel (and eternal) world of the Bainites, muggins and Judith are having multiple encounters that make the whole thing very suspect. Something is afoot between these two.

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  57. Andrei (2,652 comments) says:

    Andrei, the rising number of Moslems includes immigrants.

    And immigrants don’t have children they name Mohammed and Mussah who grow to become Englishmen and women to raise their own little Mohammeds and Mussahs in turn?

    What do Nigel and Timmy call their offspring then? Oh wait they have are no little ones to be presented for baptism in the CoE by the lesbian vicar

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  58. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Interesting (and disturbing) to note that if the muslim population in the UK continues to grow at
    its present rate they will represent 50% of the UK population in less than 40 years.

    In New Zealand the muslim population has grown from almost nil in 1970 to 40,000 odd today.
    And we import more of them every day.
    It is axiomatic that muslims will not integrate into any western society.

    Is there a mathamatician reading who could calculate how long before they take over in New Zealand.

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  59. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Andrei, the projected rise in population of Moslems in the UK is dependent on a continuing inflow of migrants to maintain the rate of growth (existing Moslems in the UK grow old and stop having children like anyone else). The proportion of Moslem migrants to existing Moslem residents will decline as the later rises – if the immigration numbers are the same as now. Thus the rate of growth from immigration alone will slow.

    Will third generation Moslem children marry fellow Moslems?

    The projection is overstated.

    No … I don’t think there is a threat that warrants gays and lesbians being forced to marry each other to breed children to be collected for baptism so that the white race Christians can outbreed religious competitors.

    Let the clerics and nuns set the example, if it is that serious.

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  60. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    bereal, it is axiomatic … history – the rivers of blood speech by Enoch Powell suggests the immigrant threat is often overblown.

    Of course, imperial Rome did start using Germans as soldiers in their legions before …

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  61. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    By the third generation the Muslim has been naturalized and culturalized. The fourth gens are not considered what they once were.

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  62. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Just don’t allow clerics in that’s all.

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  63. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Dime was thinking about the national debt. How much money we are borrowing etc.

    My ideology is against it.

    However, i believe us borrowing all this money every week has actually had benefit to the business and has made Dime richer.

    As long as we stay away from a greece like tipping point. is it actually a bad thing? are we just prolonging the inevitable pain? or, when we start to boom again do we just pay the debt off. so we lose the chance to maybe cut taxes in the future, but the upside is we dont go through horrendous pain now?

    sorry if this induces a stroke manolo and redbaiter :D

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  64. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    dime, politicians will always delay the unpopular – so the government is restraining spending enough to show it cares about the debt build up, but not so much that it is giving up the chance to get re-elected.

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  65. Andrei (2,652 comments) says:

    When you borrow money Dime the wisdom or otherwise of doing it depends entirely on what the borrowed money is used for.

    Thus borrowing money to develop a dairy herd in general works out well because your cows start to produce milk which you sell to pay back your debt and as the debt is retired your wealth increases

    Borrowing money to buy a car is a looser though because not only does the car not generate wealth but its value declines as you use it and it ages and many who do this find that by the time the debt is retired the car they bought is worthless and they have to borrow again for a new one. They never learn though

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  66. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    SPC – sounds like a reasonable balance, it would be terrible for NZ if a Hydra type coalition of left parties got elected.

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  67. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    Shame Jones unleashed: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8595293/sharples-irrelevant-says-shane-jones

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  68. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Good editorial in the Washington Times: Global warming takes a vacation

    Those who dare assert the Earth’s temperature isn’t on a perilous rise are derided as “deniers.” For liberals, the climate debate has ended, and it is an unquestionable article of faith that mankind’s carbon-dioxide emanations have set the stage for rising oceans, devastating hurricanes and disasters on a scale never before seen. To say otherwise is unthinkable, and that has created a dilemma. It’s not actually getting warmer.

    In a paper published Tuesday, no less an authority than NASA scientist James E. Hansen wrote, “The 5-year mean global temperature has been flat for a decade, which we interpret as a combination of natural variability and a slowdown in the growth rate of the net climate forcing.” Mr. Hansen is the intellectual godfather of the global-warming movement who advised Al Gore on his Oscar-winning climate-scare flick, “An Inconvenient Truth.” Mr. Hansen has just acknowledged more than the lack of warming. His words confirm nature, not mankind, played the decisive role in directing global temperatures over the past 10 years

    Read the rest, and then spare a through for the Climatologists who are increasingly weeping at their altar.

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  69. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    andrei – but in terms of supporting business…

    the govt keeps propping up these shitbags but they do spend money. they buy dimes products. they buy other peoples products. they tend to spend every cent they get. keep retail going etc.

    how bad is our debt really? say we take on 10 years of it. its huge now. but if it helps get us back to growth, then surplus… 20 billion now isnt as much in 20 years time and the cash is rolling in…

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  70. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    “spare a through for the Climatologists who are increasingly weeping at their altar.”

    And for poor spliff, who has been reduced to claiming weather is climate.

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  71. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    RN – quite so. The thing I find interesting about the WP editorial is that a year ago it would have been an isolated MSM piece, whereas today we’re regularly seeing stories that question the alarmist orthodoxy. I guess the multi-tiered, confirmation bias driven scam is starting to unwind.

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  72. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    kk, na the Washington Times would have published the same editorial a year ago, being able to quote Hansen is the only part of this that is new/news.

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  73. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Kea at 10:21 am

    I was… having a stir ;)

    This is General Debate, so I can say pretty much what I like.

    Revealing. Bullshit admitted (after being called on it). Can anything you say be taken seriously?

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  74. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    SPC – Yeah I agree. If the NYT goes there I’d be surprised.

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  75. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Apart from an amusing juxtaposition of pseudonyms this from Affordable housing suggests a lack of appreciation of an affordable state of welfare.

    Salad

    $15 is NOT a “living wage”.

    fatty

    True…but it could be if it was introduced alongside a more ethical tax system, such as the first $27000 earned is tax free, and abolish GST.

    Also need free healthcare, free education, food in schools, universal child supplement, state housing etc.

    ‘Fatty’ could do with considering who is going to provide all the muscle – or maybe they have bought Russel Norman’s money printing idea.

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  76. Griff (7,715 comments) says:

    Thats brilliant right now spliff :lol:

    No right now KK and you would be the one with a problem with the difference between weather and climate
    Around 3/4 of you recent posts have used 1998, a surge in warm weather. to prove climate change is static since then
    You repeatedly fail to assimilate the simple fact that the surge in heat 1998 was down to el nino SOI a natural climate cycle and not the underlying rising trend. this is known and Quantified.
    You try to compare “weather” a random cyclic rise and fall in the climate state, the warmth of 1998, with the underlying climate trend. This logic fail gives you the mental space you need to pro up your warped view of reality

    The best of you fail is your assertion that Met uk is predicting no rise in the warming trend when if you actually could get past you denial block you would know that Met is forecasting a significant rise in the underlying warming trend in its resent release.

    No matter how many times you nutters cry we are winning the scientist are wrong it does not prove anything.
    Face it guys the only ones losing this debate in the real world are you. Political blogs are not a true reflection of the real position of the world on climate change. People exposed to the growing variance in weather and the extremes reached in the last year are not listing to weirdos any more. They are seeing climate change in the real world.

    Spliff :lol: is going off line for a week or two as he has a lovely little job on a beach front property with no cell phone reception. Back in a while stay safe and keep on pushing those desks towards retirement cubical monkeys.

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  77. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    For liberals, the climate debate has ended…

    That’s a pathetically nonsense claim.

    His words confirm nature, not mankind, played the decisive role in directing global temperatures over the past 10 years…

    And so is that. In the short term (a decade or so) a natural cooling cycle has negated a longer term warming trend. When the cooling cycle ends (expected in the next few years) the AGW is expected to surge again.

    No one expects linear temperature changes. Some people do expect major newspapers to have a clue about what they editorialise on (WT may have a clue but chooses to appease their demographic).

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  78. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Is anyone claiming we’re going to have a problem with 1.5 deg C warming per Century? We’d be approaching the temperatures of the Climatic Optimum.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Holocene_Temperature_Variations.png

    Optimum!

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  79. Andrei (2,652 comments) says:

    Global warming is only believed by sheep like Pete George, wooly thinkers of low intelligence or are prime targets for any con.

    FFS It has been known for well over a century the climate changes and there is no reason to believe that this is going to stop happening anytime soon.

    And yet the tiniest, smallest little changes in the climate, changes at the very limit of detectability are harbingers of doom?

    They are fucking useful to the people who want to control and tax everything that moves, the theives and parasites of little talent other than stealing from the productive.

    And it is the foolish an gulliable like Pete George who have allowed them to get away with this rort.

    Look at this utter blather from Mr George

    And so is that. In the short term (a decade or so) a natural cooling cycle has negated a longer term warming trend. When the cooling cycle ends (expected in the next few years) the AGW is expected to surge again.

    So a natural cooling cycle is masking the (bad manmade we have to fix by taxing everybody into poverty) longer term warming cycle according to our resident expert in everything.

    I betya our resident guru can’t even solve a simple linear differential equation let alone grasp the complexities of non linear dynamics which is what is involved here.

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  80. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    the AGW is expected to surge again.

    If it’s expected to surge by the same people, and to the same extent as last time, then our children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s will be perfectly fine. But I should feel scared, guilty and willing to be taxed in any case. Right?

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  81. Andrei (2,652 comments) says:

    Another one from the department of oh FFS.

    Don’t think of doing anything, anything imaginative at all without consulting with the appropriate authorities before you do it

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  82. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    racism at its worst.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10859789

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  83. Griff (7,715 comments) says:

    You cant do graphs can you right now.
    That graph shows the range of estimates for the climate optimum being around the same or less than now
    and the problem is warming projected in the future +3 degrees that puts us hotter than the earth has seen for 50,000,000 years

    There was a climate anomaly caused buy the solar cycle in the 1800’s its called the little ice age
    It was 1 degree cooler than today it caused the Thames UK to freeze solid and untold death and starvation though out the world.

    Still think that 3 degree above now will not have a impact.

    Its like a net full of fish flopping around trying to escape the bottom of a boat both pathetic and futile.

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  84. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Ha Ha! i’ve found this!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/8190815/World-temperature-average-rising/

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  85. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Has anyone ever heard of Eskimos dying because summer never came one year? It became a legend that one survivor managed to get out of a village that starved to death, apparently this happened in the late 18th century sometime.

    I must remember to save these links.

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  86. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    US Taps Pension Fund To Avoid Debt Limit Default

    http://www.secretsofthefed.com/us-taps-pension-fund-to-avoid-debt-limit-default/

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  87. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    RightNow

    Is anyone claiming we’re going to have a problem with 1.5 deg C warming per Century? We’d be approaching the temperatures of the Climatic Optimum.

    Even if that’s the case and we can stabilise on a supposed optimum (I’m sure the science isn’t settled on that either) any significant shift in temperature may have a major impact on agriculture in some parts of the world, and it may result in the need to move large populations.

    So even if we can perfectly arrive at a perfect temperature the world won’t magically become perfect.

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  88. Andrei (2,652 comments) says:

    Even if that’s the case and we can stabilise on a supposed optimum (I’m sure the science isn’t settled on that either) any significant shift in temperature may have a major impact on agriculture in some parts of the world, and it may result in the need to move large populations.

    If you actually knew anything Pete George you would have realized that when RightNow refered to the “Optimum” what was meant was the “Holocene Climate Optimum”. not a “a supposed optimum“. and something which occurred about the time of Abraham. A period when the world was a lot warmer than it is now.

    The science isn’t settled on anything Pete George and never will be. And no committee of the UN will ever be able to set the thermostat of the planet and say this s what the temperature shall be for ever more And thank God for that because if the fricken UN could actually make the climate do what they told it you can guarantee they would control it to benefit themselves at best or completely mess it up at worst.

    We cannot arrive at a perfect temperature for the world Pete George because there isn’t one

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  89. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Pete George (15,850) Says:

    This is true.

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  90. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Yes Andrei, I know that. It’s a pity God didn’t think of a thermostat during his building phase.

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  91. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Well soon people are going to start believing our rise in autistic children being born is due to evolution but kindly disregard the other 2 possible factors.

    Fast food fetish

    Geeks marrying Geeks (yeah strange but that’s how Juan Enriquez put in his ted talk session)

    I personally believe in particle pollution damage and excessive late life birthing as opposed to early gene pristine conception.

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  92. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Pete, we have come out of a prolonged period of cold over the last 250+ years.
    Crop yields have increased as 1) it warmed and 2) CO2 have become more abundant in the atmosphere.
    I don’t believe there is a perfect world, but I am damn sure that another 1-2 degrees warming will get us closer to it rather than further.
    Some say we’re breaking temperature records as a result of pumping GHG’s into our atmosphere, but the hottest temperatures ever were recorded in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
    Some say bushfires in Australia are the ‘new normal’. Actually they’re just the old normal.
    Some say you must ignore 1998 as an anomaly, yet much of the AGW alarm is predicated on the slope of the graph leading up to 1998.
    Some tell us any pause in warming is on too small a time-scale so we have to take the longer term trend into account, but when the longer term trend shows century scale warming of 1.5 deg C they ignore that inconvenient fact.
    Some tell us the anthropogenic forcing is dominant, yet when warming pauses they tell us it’s natural variation.
    Some tell us the science is settled, yet recently I’ve read the forcing from soot was underestimated (likely by half) and that aerosols were masking warming from the ’40’s to the ’70’s (which means cleaning up our air from the 70’s is a very likely contributor to the 70’s-90’s warming). Add that to older discoveries such as an increase in biomass resulting from increase in temperatures and CO2 will also result in an increase in envirotranspiration which has a cooling effect.

    So what to believe?
    I’m sticking with the scientific method, where if the observations don’t match the predictions you change your hypothesis.
    Century scale warming of about 1.5 deg C. There’s the prediction. +-0.5

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  93. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    God gave Creation a time limit, he made it entropic and a stand alone system. It’s in the book.

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  94. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    What else did some say?

    Polar bears were dying because of AGW.
    Sea level rise was drowning Tuvalu
    Himalayan glaciers are melting
    In the UK children won’t see snow in their lifetimes
    In Australia they need to build desalination plants because droughts are permanent

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  95. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    And no committee of the UN will ever be able to set the thermostat of the planet and say this s what the temperature shall be for ever more

    It is not about the climate:

    “We’ve got to ride this global warming issue.
    Even if the theory of global warming is wrong,
    we will be doing the right thing in terms of
    economic and environmental policy.”
    – Timothy Wirth,
    President of the UN Foundation

    “The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable,
    indeed a sacred principle of international relations.
    It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to
    the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation.”
    – UN Commission on Global Governance report

    “Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the
    industrialized civilizations collapse?
    Isn’t it our responsiblity to bring that about?”
    – Maurice Strong,
    founder of the UN Environment Programme

    “What an incredible planet in the universe this will be
    when we will be one human family living in justice,
    peace, love and harmony with our divine Earth,
    with each other and with the heavens.”
    – Robert Muller,
    UN Assistant Secretary General

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  96. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Only 2 other possible factors, Azeraph?

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  97. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Here’s me thinking that Aus was one big permanent drought.

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  98. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    I’m sure there’s more Chiz but here’s the link to that talk and watch the audience.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/juan_enriquez_will_our_kids_be_a_different_species.html

    Charlattan or ?

    I find with older people there is a stress of time and the lure to predict things that will happen in their lifetimes, i can’t say i’m right as it is only a feeling, speculation.

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  99. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    I share many of the concerns expressed regarding the rise of fundamental Islam in Western Countries. However, I find it bizarre that the UK is in Muslim countries killing fundamental Muslim people, to promote liberal Western values, while they sell out their own society at home.

    Islam is not the enemy of the West. Most Muslim people are ok folk. The fact their ways may differ from ours does not give us licence to launch Drone attacks and occupy their lands. It is not our business. You do not need to understand, you just need to except it.

    We can call the shots in our society, but not in theirs. A factor often over looked is that by allowing intolerant Islam to arise in the West, we offer no refuge to those more moderate Muslims. They will understandably move into Muslim areas, and have the very things they sought to escape imposed upon them once more. I know a number of Muslims and they hold Western values in high regard. If we want to change the world, then we should lead by example. Not by military force.

    No doubt some will disagree with me, but my Muslim friends do not.

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  100. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    George Bush Sr. New World Order Live Speech (1991)

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  101. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    George Bush Sr. New World Order Live Speech (1991)

    hinamanu, Thanks for the history lesson. Obama is now POTUS and has been for some time. You may want to check what Obama has been up to. He has taken military action against most of the Muslim countries on the planet. (I wonder if he was ” interfered” with by a Muslim cleric during his time in Indonesia.) While your focusing on conspiracies, you are missing the obvious things right under your nose.

    Just remember, Bush is NOT the president of the US.

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  102. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    The latest Roy Morgan poll (last poll mid December):

    National Party at 46% (up 0.5%)
    Maori Party 2% (up 0.5%)
    ACT NZ 0.5% (down 0.5%)
    United Future 0.5% (up 0.5%).

    Labour is 31.5% (down 2%)
    Greens are 12% (up 1%)
    New Zealand First 5% (unchanged)
    Mana Party 0.5% (down 0.5%)

    Conservative Party of NZ 1.5% (up 0.5%)
    Others 0.5% (unchanged).

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  103. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    PG, good news to hear that only 2.5% of Kiwis are racist. It is more troubling to learn 12% are communists. Overall we can see Kiwis are left of center, but not too far.

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  104. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Kea (1,710) Says:

    I agree.

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  105. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Azeraph, agree with what mate? I have stuck my oar in on a number of topics.

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  106. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Azeraph – on Kiwiblog the number in brackets by someone’s name increments every time they comment -i.e it’s their total comments made on this blog.
    What makes that difficult as a reference to a particular comment is that the number is replicated across every comment they made (you’ll see that if you refresh the page). This is a function of the way wordpress displays the comments section.
    So when you cite their comment it’s much better if you include the time-stamp.
    Just FYI :)

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  107. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Kea (1,710) Says:

    EDIT I agree on the Muslim issues.

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  108. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    RightNow (4,837) Says:

    Thanks i saw this before you posted and was correcting when your post came up, Thanks. I get lazy sometimes.

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  109. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    RightNow, I only just paid attention to the number of comments I have made in such a short time. I am surprised I am that opinionated.

    Feel free to take cheap shots lefties ;)

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  110. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    good news to hear that only 2.5% of Kiwis are racist

    The poll doesn’t ask for whether you are rascist or not. I doubt that any of the racists that comment here would be included in that 2.5% you are referring to, and there will be rascists elsewhere as well, even amongst the other 97.5%.

    It is more troubling to learn 12% are communists.

    Communistness is not polled either. All people polled would be likely to have some degree of socialist acceptance.

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  111. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    How different would Australia be? Is she right?
    http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/no-states-if-we-started-again-pm/story-e6frfku9-1226556372028

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  112. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    I think my tally is over about 5-6 years Kea. I reckon Pete George is the most prolific commenter, he’s notched up 15k+ comments in much less time than I’ve been on KB. Griff’s got to 4k+ in about a year.

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  113. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Azeraph, Many Muslim folk hold the US in a higher regard than I do. I find myself trying to temper their overly romantic view.

    The Muslim folk who have had their family killed and towns and houses destroyed by the US, have to pick a side. We are polarizing Islam against us. It breaks my heart.

    I fully understand where the anti Muslim folk are coming from too and share their concerns re Muslims in the West. ( As do many Muslims.) But many on KB are simply a reflection of how effective anti US propaganda is.

    Hard working debt laden Western people should not be sponsoring this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83VgEnfLzJc

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  114. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Griff’s got to 4k+ in about a year.

    Griff has admitted to taking performance enhancing drugs ;)

    [results vary]

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  115. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    There’s been an unsurprising amount of consternation shown at TS re the Roy Morgan poll. That will fuel an interesting leadup to Labour’s February caucus leadership vote.

    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-18012013/#comment-575216

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  116. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    P.G.’s addiction to TsS is amazing and reminds me of 50 shades of grey.

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  117. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    I reckon Pete George is the most prolific commenter, he’s notched up 15k+ comments in much less time than I’ve been on KB.

    I have been at times, and probably have the highest total. Redbaiter used to keep ahead of me until he had his hissy fit and vowed never to return, and since he returned he has been only sporadic.

    My comment rate has scaled down somewhat now, I doubt if I have been the most prolific for quite a while on say a monthly basis.

    Azeraph (slightly related) when quoting someone the comment counter isn’t very useful because every time you comment your count changes on your comments right through the threads.

    It’s best to quote the name and comment time – I select and copy the whole comment header, then past and delete everything between the name and time.

    Or right click the time, Copy, then Paste the link as your reference.

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  118. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    How different would Australia be? Is she right?

    Manolo, Yes it would be different. It is unsurprising to hear she would like total control. She is cut from the same cloth as the hideous Clark.

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  119. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Redbaiter used to keep ahead of me until he had his hissy fit and vowed never to return…

    By saying that Red was behaving like a lefty. You will notice that the ONLY people on KB who use RIP are lefties. The free exchange of ideas offends lefties, far more than those on the right.

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  120. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Kea

    ….”Islam is not the enemy of the West. Most Muslim people are ok folk”….

    Crap! Islamic teachings & Western practice are polar opposites. This is okay so long as the goat molesters stay in the ME & blow each other up as is their wont. Regrettably they do not stay in their own shitholes but instead move into secular societies & rather than go with the flow as any sane group of immigrants, they cluster & start bitching about Western values while demanding Sharia law & the rest of the shit.

    Simple question…..what goes bing instead of bong in their religion addled minds?

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  121. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    You will notice that the ONLY people on KB who use RIP are lefties.

    Not true. I’m no lefty, but RIP was the only solution where the prolific offender Ure was around.

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  122. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Crap! Islamic teachings & Western practice are polar opposites

    Yes, in many ways they are. That was not my point. Read my posts again and look for another meaning.

    I was defending our Western values at home, but also saying we should not be forcing those values on other countries.

    (The US is NOT a secular society. They are the biggest church goers in the world. Us kiwis are one the lowest.)

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  123. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Not true. I’m no lefty, but RIP was the only solution where the prolific offender Ure was around

    Manolo, seems I can not do anything right today ;)

    I deliberately do not try and cover my arse by qualifying my comments with built in cop-outs. If I did that I would be like mm, Pg, and other boring lefties with nothing of substance to contribute.

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  124. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Kea

    I’ll go along with you that we should get the hell out of the ME & let them live like stoneagers as they seem to prefer. I also take your point that the religious right in America are not much less insane.

    My bitch is about the scum who emigrate to Western countries without the slightest intention of fitting in or assimilating gradually into another culture. Our Western values & way of life are threatened by the efforts of our spineless leaders who know of nothing except appeasing the savages.

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  125. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    My bitch is about the scum who emigrate to Western countries without the slightest intention of fitting in or assimilating gradually into another culture.

    nasska, that is my bitch too.

    They can still be Muslim, build Mosques, pray five times a day… I do not care. What annoys me is when they want us to deffer to their ways. Like my dear old Dad said, “When in Rome do as the Romans do”. Now days PC has replaced genuine tolerance and respect for others. Socialism has replaced egalitarianism.

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  126. Manolo (13,774 comments) says:

    I’m with you, Kea. It’s better to be direct when expressing an opinion, instead of using weasel words or straddling the fence.

    I disagree with you (and share nasska’s view) on Islam as utterly incompatible with science, peace and the modern world, since it wants us all subservient to a 7th century paedophile and his strange beliefs.

    A good analysis of why the Islamic world has been left behind after a golden age can be found in the excellent book Civilization (written by Niall Ferguson in 2011).

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  127. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Manolo, you say you disagree, but then go on to say things I agree with to support your point. You do know I am an atheist ? Most Muslims I have met accept Christians, but can not get their head around us atheists. They look upon me with pity, like a retarded puppy :)

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  128. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    This should keep me offside with all the nutters.

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oi2r968nt8rucx3/Religion%201.jpg

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  129. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    nasska, profound cartoon ;)

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  130. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Kea (1,722) Says:
    January 18th, 2013 at 4:52 pm

    We are a secular society. That’s a strange reaction from a muslim as atheism has been around just as long as religion has, it’s even written in the bible. It’s just never been organized until now or the last 70 years?

    Bugger the anglican church if it held sway over us.

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  131. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Azeraph, well its not so strange when you come from a place where atheism is against the law !

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  132. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    New Zealand First 5%

    Urgh!

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  133. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Azeraph:Charlattan or ?

    Don’t have time to watch the talk but it sounds though he is talking about the assortative mating theory, with nerds more likely to marry nerds, and have autistic children as a result. If so, he’s not a charlatan, just leaping to conclusions. There is some evidence to back up assortative mating, but its ambiguous and admits other interpretations. In any case, something like half of all cases of autism are due to de novo mutations, mutations which weren’t actually present in either parent. This doesn’t fit with assortative mating.

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  134. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Most would now agree that muslim immigration into western societies inevitably leads to problems which
    grow relative to their numbers.

    Unlike any other type of immigrant they do not integrate, they reach a certain mass and, rather
    than adopting the values of the host society they begin demanding the host change to adopt their values.

    Even with only 1% of our population muslim we have already seen their call for a Sharia banking system
    to be established here.
    This call will eventually turn into a demand.
    One day it will be Sharia law.

    Multiculturalism is now generally recognised as a failed concept.

    Given the above, why would we continue to import muslims ?

    Can any correspondent list any perceived advantages to New Zealand in muslim immigration ?

    Can any point to any western society that has gained a benefit from importing muslims ?

    Three simple questions.
    Anyone care to submit a reply.

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  135. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Kea (1,724) Says:
    January 18th, 2013 at 5:41 pm

    Ah! I see. Poor buggers.

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  136. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    bereal

    It is generally acknowledged that the British Labour Party encouraged Muslim immigration as a means of upsetting the status quo in the UK. If this was their intention then it paid off in spades. As to NZ:

    1) Why…..probably because the wankers who misgovern us are so worried that we’re one of the few countries not overpopulated that we have to import no hopers to keep the slums growing.

    2) Advantages…..Pass, unless an authentic kebab floats your boat.

    3) Benefits…..tough one that. Maybethe nostalgia we feel for the days when women & girls could walk unmolested in the Hutt Valley.

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  137. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    chiz (876) Says:
    January 18th, 2013 at 5:50 pm

    Interesting. Plz post further on this subject when you come back on Chiz.

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  138. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Atheism must substantially pre-date theism. We can be certain that early humans would have been atheists and at some stage in history theist beliefs would have evolved.

    Everyone is born an atheist. Some are convinced to switch to theism at some stage of their lives.

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  139. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    PG

    Everyone may be born an atheist but if you have the misfortune to be born into a religious family you would never stand a chance…..the brain washing starts early & never lets up.

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  140. graham (2,335 comments) says:

    nasska: Not true. My family is Christian, but my children actually think for themselves (shock! horror!). My step-daughter, at this stage of her life, has chosen not to follow Christianity. That’s her decision.

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  141. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Some religious families are likely to put a lot of pressure on children to follow suit, but I know that others do give their kids a reasonable chance to make up their own minds. I’ve heard from some that got a lot more pressure from (religious) school to follow specific religious beliefs. It can be interesting listening to a bunch of ex Catholics – and most experiences talked about are from school and church.

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  142. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    nasska/Kea

    You are wasting your time reflecting on jurisdictional boundaries. There are no jurisdictional boundaries in Islam (or certainly at the hard end of Islam). There is only Islam, albeit in a variety of flavours, and in that respect, Islam is no different from the Chruch of 600+ years ago. “When in Rome” is an unknown paradigm.

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  143. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    graham

    Good on you….now if she does return to your church her faith will mean something.

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  144. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    The latest Roy Morgan poll…
    Labour is 31.5% (down 2%)

    Down 2%? Cunliffe will be rushing down to BP to refill the LPG bottle for the BBQ

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  145. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    On a theoretical level you’re correct DaVinci…..in practice geographical & social boundaries normally contain the lunacy. It’s at the edges where the drama normally occurs.

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  146. Fletch (6,389 comments) says:

    Atheism must substantially pre-date theism. We can be certain that early humans would have been atheists and at some stage in history theist beliefs would have evolved.

    Everyone is born an atheist. Some are convinced to switch to theism at some stage of their lives.

    As I’ve pointed out in the past, if you’re an Atheist, you’re in a minority.

    According to the CIA website, there are approx 7 billion people in the world –

    https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/xx.html
    (Click on the [+] People and Society link)

    According to the same site, 88.54% (6.2 billion) are religious in some way – Christian 33.35% (of which Roman Catholic 16.83%, Protestant 6.08%, Orthodox 4.03%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 22.43%, Hindu 13.78%, Buddhist 7.13%, Sikh 0.36%, Jewish 0.21%, Baha’i 0.11%, other religions 11.17%.

    Only 9.42% are non-religious and 2.04% are atheist.

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  147. graham (2,335 comments) says:

    And the reverse can be true, PG. Some non-religious families can be very hard on any of their members who choose to follow a faith, and make life uncomfortable for them.

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  148. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Breaking news! Attorney Orly Taitz filed a petition with the US Congress for an immediate investigation of Barack Obama due to his use of forged IDs and a fraudulently obtained CT SSN. Over 4,000 people signed it in one day. Demand that our corrupt and bought and paid for puppet media report on it!! Obama regime is desperate and ripped off WeThePeople@WhiteHouse.gov a second REDACTED petition for Obama to resign due to his use of forged IDs and a stolen CT SSN

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  149. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    On a theoretical level you’re correct DaVinci…..in practice geographical & social boundaries normally contain the lunacy. It’s at the edges where the drama normally occurs.

    Depends on whether you think the majority are correct nasska. Recall it is the majority that think for example MMP is a good system. Also recall this very same majority took simply ages, like at least three elections, nine years, to get their simple child-like heads around the fact that under MMP, you get two votes and not just the one, like you used to.

    These are also the very same people who really do believe that if they watch the 6 o’clock news, they’re thereby “informed.”

    Etc, etc, etc.

    If you want to associate yourself with people like that, crikey.

    :)

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  150. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Reid

    We are still singing from the same song sheet….the majority may rule in most instances be they political or theological. The fact that they prevail is due to numbers, not intelligence nor conviction.

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  151. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    Multiculturalism is now generally recognised as a failed concept.

    It’s part of the plan to destroy national identity bereal, nothing more and nothing less. You make an error by focusing exclusively on a particular aspect of a much wider picture. Interesting this phenomena is exclusively occurring in western societies who adhere to the almost archaic phrase, Judeo-Christian ethic, isn’t it. I mean you don’t hear much of it happening in say, India or China, do you. Ever wonder why that might be?

    The fact that they prevail is due to numbers, not intelligence nor conviction.

    Yes I know. That’s the issue, it’s not a virtue. Majority rule only works well if the majority are educated. Our majorities aren’t, in most important ways.

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  152. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Multiculturalism is now generally recognised as a failed concept.

    So what do we do in New Zealand then? Force everyone to comply within single cultural confines?

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  153. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “Unemployment and dependency is actually to a degree what most capitalist economies depend up to provide that lovely pliable,needy workforce…somehow though NZ has allowed familial unemployment to bloom and thus tipped the scales away from the capitalist model….poor capitalist. I feel for young people because they are fearful,dependent and lacking the foresight to make choices to move upward.”

    Quote i found on Facebook and what the middle and business class will never admit.

    although corporatism is to blame not capitalism which the socialists purposely or ignorantly can’t perceive

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  154. Reid (16,457 comments) says:

    So what do we do in New Zealand then? Force everyone to comply within single cultural confines?

    Pete what is a “single cultural confine?”

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  155. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Reid – monoculture n. 2. A single, homogeneous culture without diversity or dissension.

    Sounds like what some here want – as long as it’s their single, homogeneous culture without diversity or dissension.

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  156. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    It’s good to have an exciting successful team to support. Looking forward to the T20 final on Sunday, have ticket. Well done Wellington who deserve to contest the top prize with Otago.

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  157. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Which means we must be multicultural then?

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  158. Andrei (2,652 comments) says:

    Which means we must be multicultural then?

    Yep lots of dissension, which apparently is a jolly good thing

    The real point of “multiculturalism” of course is to undermine the dominant culture so that it can be replaced with brave new one the secularists have in mind

    What Pol Pot tried to do but by stealth

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  159. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    What is “the dominant culture”?

    Is it a good thing for “the dominant culture” to dominate?

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  160. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    While staying in South Auckland recently a bloke chatted up a bird at a local bar & soon they found themselves back in his motel room.

    Immediately, he started rubbing his hands all over her body.

    “Ooh,” she giggled, “seems like we’re having it rough tonight.”

    “No,” he replied, “I’m just making sure you’re not hiding any weapons.”

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  161. Steve (North Shore) (4,562 comments) says:

    Hone Harawera was going to court to ban the word “blacklisted”.

    The judge said to him: “please state your case.”

    He said, “This racist word is demoralising for the maoris of this country!

    Why put people on a list just because they’re maori, why not put pakeha on a

    list also?”.

    The judge answered him: “They are on a list, they are called “Tax payers”!

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  162. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Andrei (1,642) Says:
    January 18th, 2013 at 7:33 pm

    Look at the states, regardless of what people think they are a multicultural mash of peoples and good for them and in our own way we are too but the only way our countries will survive is if we stay secular, Christianity was never meant to be a part of government.

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  163. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Azeraph

    Make sure you include the rest of the religious groups along with the Christians. They’re a big enough pain in the neck but others are worse.

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  164. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    nasska (5,487) Says:
    January 18th, 2013 at 8:14 pm

    What other religions? Islam?

    I have Christian beliefs but i’m just like a lot of people here, not a follower. Though i personally think the Jehovah’s Witnesses come close to being what it was meant to be. Separate from governance.

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  165. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Most religions aspire to be a part, if not the whole, of government.

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  166. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Azeraph

    Islam certainly & practically only they & the Xtians are likely to have the numbers to attempt to sway a government’s thinking.

    But there is no shortage of boutique groups of religious nutters who would love to dictate our thoughts & actions. There is also no end of venal political parties who would cater to their demands in exchange for their votes.

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  167. Longknives (4,746 comments) says:

    Cool.

    http://thechive.com/2013/01/17/great-and-important-historical-photographs-23-photos/

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  168. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Longknives

    Thanks for the link…..photos like those make history come alive.

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  169. Andrei (2,652 comments) says:

    The little echo chamber of secularism – hey ho, you don’t even realize how badly you have been sucked in by those who would lord it over you

    FWIW – probably way too subtle for you people

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  170. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    A joke from somewhere that is best left nameless (I think the first comment was serious):

    Afewknowthetruth

    You need to learn the read properly, Gormless.
    By 2015: breakdown of current economic arrangements.
    By 2020: most things people currently take for granted become unavailable.
    By 2025: complete collapse of the industrial system.
    By 2060: the Earth become largely uninhabitable for humans. (Could be as early as 2035).

    ropata

    2012 Quetzalcoatl
    2013 Flying Saucers
    2014 Antichrist takes over
    2015 Jesus shows up to smite everyone (except Israel)
    2016 Cthulhu??
    2017 Morgoth??

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  171. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    nasska (5,489) Says:
    January 18th, 2013 at 8:33 pm

    You got the numbers that are not based on baby baptism? Have you looked at the malls on Sunday’s and the local churches here?

    I don’t know about you but i don’t see the conservative party gaining a lot of attention.

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  172. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Azeraph

    I don’t think we could even try to have a stab at the numbers. Fortunately the census is not far off but it is my bet that the results will be an eye opener.

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  173. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    nasska (5,490) Says:
    January 18th, 2013 at 9:24 pm

    I can only agree but i like to rely on my eye’s and the up and coming generations have their own ideas, too bad that group in the states are trying to redefine prayer from a deity to the universe. Strange people, in the end it looks like they want to adopt the structure of the church system but change it with american atheist views.

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  174. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Just checking in to see if there were any takers prepared to attempt to answer any of the three
    questions i posed @ 5.50 today regarding muslim immigration to New Zealand.

    Well done nasska you appear to be the only one prepared to have a crack.

    Pity there were no handwringing apologist muslim lovers to step up to the plate, i was hoping
    for a good argument.
    i guess that means that when the insanity of importing muslims is couched in such simple terms
    it’s patently indefensible.

    Oh well, i might try again another day.

    Must run now, don’t want to miss Kath and Kim.

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  175. axeman (252 comments) says:

    Climate Science “A Fairy Tale That’s Rich In Fantasy…Spook Watching”

    Awww what a shame GRIEF is away from his desk for a while (and for a change!). He would be really interested in German meteorologist Dr. Wolfgang Thüne ‘s harsh criticism at alarmist science.

    http://notrickszone.com/2013/01/17/veteran-german-meteorologist-calls-climate-science-a-fairy-tale-thats-rich-in-fantasy-spook-watching/

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  176. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    bereal, no western society has an immigration policy for Moslems only. They have immigration policies – are they better off for having them? And if so, not applying religious discrimination in the ranking of immigrants?

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  177. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,752 comments) says:

    How about that Sydney Big Day Out? Auckland looking forward to its turn, oh wait :D

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