General Debate 25 January 2013

January 25th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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63 Responses to “General Debate 25 January 2013”

  1. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Greens on housing:

    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2013/01/funky-cold-metiria-and-housing-holly-go.html

    CGT will decrease supply and increase demand. Good for property owners but not purchasers.
    Implicit legal protections will cost a fortune.
    Price fixing always leads to inflation and undersupply.

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  2. Colville (1,780 comments) says:

    CGT will decrease supply and increase demand.

    Huh? why?

    Same amount of houses and people, builders will still build tho prices will rise. If anything there will be a shortterm spike in supply as landlords dump houses.

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  3. Azeraph (598 comments) says:

    Monique Watson (874) Says:
    January 25th, 2013 at 8:01 am

    It’s a small nation Monique, we are not a major human hub. We lack an up to date communication system and in my opinion should of been attended to first rather than roading, people consider driving to be now a spare time interval to catch up on data/communication and some who have developed the networks to handle pipe data as well as driving consider it a must especially if their business and money is involved.

    Making our roads safer might make us less attentive to our environment we live in giving over too much time to the data realm disconnecting completely, I use to be completely against using the phone in a car but when i thought about it the young gens are developing new neurals to compensate but it’s going to take a few unfortunates before it becomes second nature to handle the new piping.

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  4. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Why would landlords dump houses? If you hold long enough you pass the cost of CGT onto the next purchaser. All taxes eventually get passed onto the end user. You’ll get some people selling, sure, but if you think there is going to be a panicking stampede to get out of property then you’re going to be disappointed. I’m not going to sell anything I am responsible for. I’m a long term investor so it doean;t effect my strategy.

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  5. hmmokrightitis (1,458 comments) says:

    When gubbermints enter markets, through either taxation or legislation, distortions and unintended consequences occur. Hell, Im old enough to remember my father bringing home toilets from his Australian business trips, 2 at a time, and selling them on to his builder mates for a handy profit because of the duties then in place.

    Im not certain that CGT will impact that much on supply and demand, but the proposed green actions around housing will distort the market – and humans being humans, we will find ways, legal and otherwise, to make that happen. We’re good like that :)

    IMHO we should, as a country, seriously consider a small – say 1% region – CGT on the sale of a family home or holiday home. Investment properties should be taxed as they are now. BUT if we do, there should be some relief from other direct taxes, and FFS, please can we do away with WFF middle class welfare. Please.

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  6. Keeping Stock (9,791 comments) says:

    I wonder what Gareth Hughes will have to say about the story this morning that fish life is absolutely flourishing out by the wreck of MV Rena. Didn’t he predict that marine life in the BoP was going to take a generation to recover?

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/whatever-happened-to-those-prophets-of.html

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  7. hmmokrightitis (1,458 comments) says:

    Maybe he meant a generation of fish KS? :)

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  8. alex Masterley (1,439 comments) says:

    KS,
    ask him. he is taking online questions on the NBR site.

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  9. Pete George (21,831 comments) says:

    There’s a fundamental flaw in the Labour-Green housing policies.

    Most new home buyers start at the cheaper end of the market, and as theu build their equity and (usually) their earnings increase they trade up to better, often newer housing.

    The Labour-Green policies are aimed at new houses for first time buyers – they want Government to selectively push some people up the housing ladder.

    First time buyers should be realistic and modest about their initial expectations – most are. A few politicians need to understand this.

    http://yournz.org/2013/01/25/major-flaw-in-labour-green-housing-policies/

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  10. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Yeah, can’t argue about the data speed issues.

    But cheap and easy transportation will be the factors that create jobs and direct the flow of immigrants to smaller towns. IMHO you can let south of Levin look after itself (public service, primary industry and tourism, but if you get the cities in the Nth Island well connected then you’ve got the makings of several supercities. With some of the more clement weather patterns in NZ.

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  11. Colville (1,780 comments) says:

    Landlords will dump houses because some wont be able to convince the Bank that a 2% real return is sustainable, others will just take the profit that has been made and put it elsewhere.

    On the whole tho rents will increase vastly in the smaller pool of availible rentals which you will be pleased about.

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  12. Scott Chris (5,687 comments) says:

    Fuck the new rating system. Promotes a pack mentality.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 26 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. Manolo (12,643 comments) says:

    Apple shares take a dive: http://data.cnbc.com/quotes/aapl

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  14. Pete George (21,831 comments) says:

    New Zealand Labour ‏@nzlabour

    Labour says National running out of friends – via @rnz_news – http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/126430/labour-says-national-running-out-of-friends

    Perhaps Labour haven’t seen how their own friendships are going amongst their own @TheStandard lately.

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  15. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Fuck the new rating system. Promotes a pack mentality.

    No it only displays it.

    You are, in effect, saying your own comments are influenced by popularity.

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  16. Pete George (21,831 comments) says:

    The karma is just another way to measure reactions. Not hiding the negative rated comments is a good thing, that promoted negative voting.

    I often post comments that I know will be unpopular, it’s a useful way of assessing opinions – in fact it’s often more effective than pandering to popularity.

    It’s usually easy to spot which reactions are argument based and which are personal.

    And there are various patterns depending on the topic.

    For example, if you post an anti religion or pro homosexual comment there will always be a quick flurry of negatives, there are a bunch of roaming crusaders who are quick off the mark. But over time the wider community will have their say and give more balance (usually) to the scores.

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  17. Viking2 (10,748 comments) says:

    Colville (498) Says:
    January 25th, 2013 at 8:24 am

    CGT will decrease supply and increase demand.

    Huh? why?

    Same amount of houses and people, builders will still build tho prices will rise. If anything there will be a shortterm spike in supply as landlords dump houses.
    ————————
    Nope.
    As a true investor rather than a speculator I will not be dumping any houses.
    trouble with you dumb twats is you don’t know enough English language definitions to actually call things and happenings by their proper description.
    Investing is for those looking at the future long term. Speculating is for those that have short term profit horizons. Nothing wrong with either scenario’s and most of us use both. problem though is that the give me’s even interfered with that making it more difficult by using tainting as an excuse to thieve.

    Investors don’t really give a crap about daily happenings. Speculators do and are taxed according to their gains in the short term.
    CGT will stop supply and is an interference in a market which will ultimately lead to higher prices. All this mindless talk of building $300k houses in the middle of Auckland is just that. Rentals are beginning to become short in supply in some places already so imagine the outcry once we landlords can get a real return and rents rise another 50%.
    The good bit is that you selfish middle class taxpayers will end up having to pay more tax to prop up the increased accommodation allowance you already freely dispense to so many people.

    Unintended consequence of interfering in the market with more taxation.

    You people never learn that the answer is cutting Govt. expenditure and decreasing the amount of taxation required. That means a lot more user pays and a lot less pandering to the various non earners and welfare recipients of all kinds and it also means if you want tax making sure that the people who generate the GDP to pay that tax get the right incentives to do so. Get rid of restrictive laws that interfere in Labor markets, company and business growth and get everyone working.
    Not hard for non socialists.

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  18. Viking2 (10,748 comments) says:

    Crap like this.
    Sometyhing for our new Minister of Labour to do..
    Clean out the bullshit that wraps around employment Law.

    Employment Law that makes an employer subject extortion by lieing,scheming, dishonest employees who then use the system of hopless mediators to attack the business when it all turns to custard.

    Apprentice was nearly electrocuted by immigrant who faked work references
    In one of the incidents an apprentice asked Mr Gostmann if cables had been isolated when they had not. The cables short-circuited when the apprentice went to move them and he narrowly avoided electrocution.

    When asked if he misrepresented himself in the pre-employment stage or in fact had 15 years’ experience, he said: “It’s difficult for me to explain these things because I’m working in a different country and I see things differently. Lining up fridges, which is what I did in South Africa, is also a technician’s responsibilities.”

    When Mr Gostmann was interviewed for the senior position early last year, he told Mr Faber he was a refrigeration engineer with 15 years’ experience in South Africa.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10861284

    There ya go Simon.

    Not that I expect any results other than the situation to get worse.

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  19. Longknives (4,051 comments) says:

    I don’t know if anyone watched the Tennis semi last night but Novak Djokovic was phenomenal. He is not going to be beaten in the final…

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  20. Bob (443 comments) says:

    David Shearer got a great reception at Ratana. John Key was barely welcome. The bulk of Maori seem to support Labour because Labour is the party of handouts.

    What is Ratana anyway? Is it just another offshoot of fundamentalist Christianity or a political pressure group?

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  21. Manolo (12,643 comments) says:

    Why does Labour lite prostrate in front of the Ratana Church knowing full well it is not welcome?

    The Stone Agers will go with the politicians who offer the highest hand-outs, by default socialist Labour, so it’s a complete waste of time.

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  22. kowtow (6,734 comments) says:

    pete george says

    first time home buyers should not be realistic and modest.

    “Equality” demands they should be able to live in mansions and the government must legislate for this.

    Hey Bob you made a post against religion(Ratana). The all knowing p george says you should be getting negative karma from “crusaders” who roam this site and are quick off the mark.

    Re Ratana. The welcome Shearer gets proves Key has been a fool to toady up to the Maoris. He should play a straight game and knock race based politics out. He’d get huge backing from the rest of the country. I guess the focus groups don’t tell him this.

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  23. kowtow (6,734 comments) says:

    scott chris doesn’t like the ratings.

    too hot in the kitchen? out you get.

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  24. Scott Chris (5,687 comments) says:

    scott chris doesn’t like the ratings.

    too hot in the kitchen? out you get.

    Fuck no – I’m under no illusion that the majority of commenters on this site disagree with most of what I say. What concerns me is that a lot of people will be more inclined to consciously or unconsciously temper what they write to conform to the prevailing culture. Doesn’t make for open and honest discussion.

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  25. Manolo (12,643 comments) says:

    What concerns me is that a lot of people will be more inclined to consciously or unconsciously temper what they write to conform to the prevailing culture.

    Only because you’re a wimp, easily swayed by the mayority. A few testosterone injections could help you.

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  26. Scott Chris (5,687 comments) says:

    On the other hand this is a political blog so there’s a certain irony and appropriateness in having the comments become less honest and more political.

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  27. Pete George (21,831 comments) says:

    What concerns me is that a lot of people will be more inclined to consciously or unconsciously temper what they write to conform to the prevailing culture.

    That happens anyway to an extent via the prevailing tone of comments. Some people like to be in with the current crowd.

    And some are prepared to challenge that.

    Doesn’t make for open and honest discussion.

    We are all as open and honest as we choose. And most of it is seen as it is.

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  28. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    Scott Chris,

    Meh… the thumbs down lets you know you’re on the right track. :)

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  29. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Bill O’Reilly: The U.S. Dollar will Collapse

    O’Reilly cited a report from the Government Accountability Office concluding that “absent policy changes—-the federal government continues to face an unsustainable fiscal path.” He said if there is not a serious attempt to curb spending or entitlements, “the U.S. dollar will collapse,” which, as O’Reilly delicately phrased it, will lead to people’s savings and investments “blow[ing] up before our eyes.”

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  30. Viking2 (10,748 comments) says:

    Govt operating balance ahead of forecast

    Friday, 25, Jan, 2013 11:40AM

    There’s some positive financial news for the Government.

    Latest Crown account figures out today have the operating balance before losses and gains at just over three billion dollars, that’s $200 million better than forecast.

    And the Crown’s operating balance is in the black to the tune of just over $700 million – it had been forecast to be over half a billion dollars in the red.

    The result’s put down to gains made in the New Zealand Super Fund and ACC investments.
    ————————
    So the govt’s account are better because your and mine super scheme is doing better. Really.
    and our accident scheme is doing better.

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  31. Pete George (21,831 comments) says:

    For the record – I gave Weihana at 12.07 a thumb down.

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  32. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    95% Of Americans Will Be Dead in the Next 5-15 Years

    survival expert and health guru, Blake Sawyer, argued that the United States will no longer be a viable place to live, and people should consider immigrating to locations in the less populated Southern Hemisphere. Whether through war, disease, famine, natural disasters, or ruthless government, he predicted that 95% of those who remain in the US will be dead in the next 5-15 years. America has been targeted by the “globalists” to be taken out, he added.

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  33. meh (164 comments) says:

    PG – they do disappear, witness the comment made by Clint Smith on the green housing thread – modded into oblivion.

    I don’t agree with the policy or his explanations :P but it should be there for people to assess themselves.

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  34. Paulus (2,304 comments) says:

    In the Ratana Church group there are not enough of voting age to make any difference anyhow – so why waste time trying to solicit votes.
    800,000 did not vote last time, and many will be part Maori, including some or many from the gaggle called Ratana Church.

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  35. kowtow (6,734 comments) says:

    Nice to see some Monckton coming down under .No doubt he’ll be studiously ignored by our “news” organisations.

    http://www.climaterealists.org.nz/

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  36. Pete George (21,831 comments) says:

    meh – DPF said that wouldn’t be happening:

    No comments get hidden if they get negative ratings. The ratings are just a feedback device.

    Perhaps that has happened by mistake. I’ll query it with DPF.

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  37. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Kim Dotcom wants to encrypt half of the Internet to end government surveillance (FULL RT INTERVIEW)

    Dam good idea. The internet is nothing to do with government. They should have no more rights than a private citizen on the internet. In fact the government should have less rights than citizens.

    Anyone who thinks other wise can go live with their peers in North Korea.

    http://rt.com/usa/news/kim-dotcom-interview-mega-673/

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  38. Grendel (878 comments) says:

    >>Landlords will dump houses because some wont be able to convince the Bank that a 2% real return is sustainable

    no they wont. the bank wont even ask. as long as you make your payments the bank never reassesses your loan viability. why take the risk you sell below loan and they lose money?

    ANZ is still managing people with 130% LVRs from the financial meltdown. they are in ‘aggressive active management’. as long as the client makes their payments, they will never sell them up and realise the loss.

    if they wont do it when you are 30% over leveraged, why would they do it if your profit ratio drops (unless it means you miss payments)?

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  39. Malcontented Lady () says:

    Everyone check out the communist civil war at The Stranded today (if you can bear it).

    Silent T has said he won’t challenge Sheep Shearer for the Liabore leadership.

    I’d hate Silent T to be PM but with the current dag in charge it will be champagne for Key on election night again. Hopefully Key will go right now.

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  40. Ross12 (931 comments) says:

    Looks like the “Lucky” country could have struck it again.

    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/south-australia/trillion-shale-oil-find-surrounding-coober-pedy-can-fuel-australia/story-e6frea83-1226560401043

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  41. Manolo (12,643 comments) says:

    That’s what friends are for: http://michellemalkin.com/2013/01/23/barbara-boxer-hillary/

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  42. kowtow (6,734 comments) says:

    Ross

    Don’t worry,Juliar will get her claws into it ,tax it and give it away for votes.Their general election can’t come soon enough.

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  43. RF (1,141 comments) says:

    Just heard that useless prick from Labour on the radio. Mumbles was rabbiting on and to tell the truth I lost interest after a few seconds.. In the short time I did hear plenty of negatives and nothing positive. I can see why the hard core Labour camp are in panic mode about him as he just does not inspire confidence as a future PM.

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  44. Viking2 (10,748 comments) says:

    I see the Murri’s have had their Taniwha appeased.

    Contract signed for expressway on historic site

    Friday, 25, Jan, 2013 1:33PM

    A $105 million contract has been signed to build the Rangiriri section of the Waikato Expressway.

    Fletcher Construction will begin work on the 4.8 kilometre section next week.

    Waikato Expressway Principal Project Manager, Richard Young, says this particular section of the expressway is significant as it was the site of the 1863 battle of Rangiriri – during New Zealand’s land wars.

    The section will be completed by the end of 2016, and will include an interchange at the intersection of State Highway 1 and Te Kauwhata Road.

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  45. Tauhei Notts (1,512 comments) says:

    Viking2
    If I am wrong I hope somebody will correct me.
    I understand that the present Highway One at Rangiriri runs directly through the middle of the November 1863 battle site.
    The new road will run further to the east of the present road, thus away from the old battle site. Okay, it will run through the path where the “brave” defenders of Rangiriri escaped to their waka left on the banks of Lake Waikare.
    I wonder if that old saying came from the battle;
    “He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day”.
    Well, they did fight, then they ran away, then they turned up at Orakau five or so months later to fight another day.

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  46. Viking2 (10,748 comments) says:

    so we should expect then to have to shift Cameron Rd. at Gate Pa and Pyes Pa Rd a Te Ranga.
    Have the French shifted the Somme or the Turks Gallipolli?
    Nah no koha to get

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  47. nasska (9,567 comments) says:

    Something to aim for.

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9o3qo2m9rg32709/when-i-grow-up-i-want-to-be-like-mommy.jpg

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  48. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Looks like the “Lucky” country could have struck it again.

    Great news. There have been a number of big finds for oil and gas recently.

    With AGW discredited and huge reserves being found, things are looking up for the oil industry. :)

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  49. slijmbal (1,134 comments) says:

    Gareth’s interview http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10861224 on how he doesn’t really want to kill off cats (even though he also said he did – go figure) has a clever advert from mammoth of the cat “prince Nikolai Stroganof III”.

    “Cold Blooded Killer? Impossible – you see Mr Morgan I never leave the house”

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  50. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    Especially for the we-hate-God-squad. :) The beauty of mathematics.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=h60r2HPsiuM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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  51. nasska (9,567 comments) says:

    The Lord of the manor returned from his grouse hunt quite a bit
    earlier than expected. He entered the master bedroom to change,
    and found her Ladyship making passionate love to Sir Reginald
    Carpley.

    The irate Lord stood stiffly and loudly berated his wife for her
    infidelity. With thunder in his voice, he reminded her that he
    had taken her from a miserable existence on a local run-down
    farm, given her a fine home, provided her with servants,
    expensive clothes and jewels, and almost anything she desired.

    By this time the woman was crying inconsolably, his Lordship then
    turned his wrath on his supposed friend:

    “And as for you Reggie… you might at least stop while I’m
    talking!”

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  52. nasska (9,567 comments) says:

    Mind you ‘graham’…..there are other ways to look at the proposition. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/p0jprixun35f76q/God%20explained.png

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  53. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    Not bad, nasska, not bad.

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  54. Viking2 (10,748 comments) says:

    A young Arab asks his father, “What is that weird hat you are wearing?”

    The father said, “Why, it’s a ‘chechia’ because in the desert it protects our heads from the sun.”

    “And what is this type of clothing that you are wearing?” asked the young man.

    “It’s a ‘djbellah’ because in the desert it is very hot and it protects the body.” said the father.

    The son asked, “And what about those ugly shoes on your feet?

    His father replied, “These are ‘babouches”, which keep us from burning our feet in the desert.”

    “So tell me then,” added the boy.

    “Yes, my son?”

    “Why are you living in Mt Roskill and still wearing this sh!t.

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  55. cha (3,547 comments) says:

    And here’s another way of looking at the proposition.

    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/526/ichatimage891131384xf6.jpg/

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  56. Viking2 (10,748 comments) says:

    Professor Higgins at the University of Sydney was giving a lecture on
    ‘Involuntary Muscle Contraction’ to the first year medical students.
    This was not an exciting subject and the professor decided to lighten up the mood.
    He pointed to a young woman in the front row and asked,
    ‘Do you know what your arsehole is doing while you’re having an orgasm?’
    She replied, ‘Probably golfing with his mates.’
    It took 45 minutes to restore order in the classroom!

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  57. cha (3,547 comments) says:

    For Johnboy:

    A student from the University of IOWA named Mendy decides to do his thesis on people who sexually abuse animals, and in particular, men who fuck sheep.

    He takes a flight to Australia, and meets a sheep farmer and amongst other things asks him how he actually has sex with the sheep. “Well it’s quite simple – you grab the bastard by the tail, hold tight and slip your cock in!”

    The student later travels to New Zealand and asks a farmer there the same question. “Ah we’re with the Aussie jokers on that one – grab it by the tail, hold on and fuck it from behind!”

    Finally, the student goes to Wales and asks a farmer there how he does it. “Well it’s bloody awkward see – first you find your sheep, then you finds a stone wall, then you grabs the sheep by the front paws, bend its back over the wall and fucks it like that!”

    The Student replies “Why don’t you fuck it from behind like they do in Australia and New Zealand?” “Fuck it from behind? Well how else am I supposed to kiss it?”

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  58. nasska (9,567 comments) says:

    “Old Jethro’s next door’s a-makin’ moonshine again.” the wife
    told her husband.

    “How can you tell ?” he asked. “Did you smell it ?”

    “Nope. But a bunch of mice from his place came over
    here this morning and beat up our cats.”

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  59. Azeraph (598 comments) says:

    hinamanu (2,059) Says:
    January 25th, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    You understand that the corps have around 1.7? tril in accounts from offshore investments waiting for the states to lower corp taxation rates? If they did that money will flow through the usual channels otherwise it’s sitting doing nothing for them.

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  60. axeman (250 comments) says:

    Lady: Do you drink?
    Man: Yes
    Lady: How much a day?
    Man: 3 six packs
    Lady: How much per 6 pack
    Man: about $10.00
    Lady: And how long have you been drinking?
    Man: 15 years
    Lady: So one 6 pack cost $10.00 and you have 3 packs a day which puts your
    spending each month at $900. In one year, it would be $10,800 correct?
    Man: Correct
    Lady: If in 1 year you spend $10,800 not accounting for inflation, the past
    15 years puts your spending at $162,000 correct?
    Man: Correct
    Lady: Do you know that if you hadn’t drunk, that money could have been put
    in a step-up interest savings account and after accounting for compound
    interest for the past 15 years, you could have now bought a Ferrari?
    Man: Do you drink?
    Lady: No
    Man: Well – where’s your fucking Ferrari then?

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  61. axeman (250 comments) says:

    We have seen the future and the future is stagnant! :-)

    http://notrickszone.com/2013/01/24/prof-fritz-vahrenholt-ohc-tells-us-to-prepare-for-a-long-period-of-temperature-stagnation/

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  62. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Keep up the good work
    That blog story has more holes than your granny’s undies
    the more stupid stories you post the more people with the ability to think critically pick up the rubbish you guys come out with

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/news.php?n=1808

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/exclusive-billionaires-secretly-fund-attacks-on-climate-science-8466312.html

    A secretive funding organisation in the United States that guarantees anonymity for its billionaire donors has emerged as a major operator in the climate “counter movement” to undermine the science of global warming, The Independent has learnt.

    The Donors Trust, along with its sister group Donors Capital Fund, based in Alexandria, Virginia, is funnelling millions of dollars into the effort to cast doubt on climate change without revealing the identities of its wealthy backers or that they have links to the fossil fuel industry.

    However, an audit trail reveals that Donors is being indirectly supported by the American billionaire Charles Koch who, with his brother David, jointly owns a majority stake in Koch Industries, a large oil, gas and chemicals conglomerate based in Kansas.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/how-the-kochtopus-stifled-green-debate-8466316.html

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  63. Manolo (12,643 comments) says:

    On a light vein (ass?): http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/bumbum-2012-lights-times-square-article-1.1247225

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