General Debate 4 January 2013

January 4th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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104 Responses to “General Debate 4 January 2013”

  1. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    That’s nice.
    Suns back out.

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  2. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    And the FBI have been caught in a double crossat court.
    Hahaha.
    Bloody good job.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10857179

    Now I have to think about work again. Bugger

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  3. meh (165 comments) says:

    I see the dom post online has a link to an article claiming the asset sales petition has the numbers, but then the link is broken… hmm

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  4. Left Right and Centre (2,973 comments) says:

    Good morning campers… hi de hi…

    Very sad to see the man stabbed in Waihi has since died of his injuries…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10857150

    Couldn’t find the source with as much ease on Stuff… useless….

    I know this kind of crime happens every week but it’s still frightening and nightmarish. Could happen to anyone.

    NZ: Any ever increasingly violent country. Ever expanding underclass.

    The usual suspect areas in other crimes… south auckland south auckland south auckland and good old Wainui…. where the locals tell me that it’s not that bad really. Um.. yeah…

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  5. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Living in a young and very isolated country like New Zealand it’s hard to imagine what it’s like living in countries mired in conflict for millennia.

    So I find it hard to understand the rights and wrongs of the Israel/Gaza situation. I can understand anger on both sides, I can understand wanting to stand ground and fight for freedoms and for safety for citizens.

    I don’t like occupations and walls and virtual imprisonments. I don’t like the rocket firing into residential areas.

    But I eally wonder at the mindsets that are entrenched there. And suggestions like this in an Op Ed in the Jerusalem Post by Girad Sharon (son of an ex Prime Minister) seem to do him or the JP any credit:

    A decisive conclusion is necessary

    There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip.

    A strong opening isn’t enough, you also have to know how to finish – and finish decisively. If it isn’t clear whether the ball crossed the goal-line or not, the goal isn’t decisive. The ball needs to hit the net, visible to all. What does a decisive victory sound like? A Tarzan-like cry that lets the entire jungle know in no uncertain terms just who won, and just who was defeated.

    To accomplish this, you need to achieve what the other side can’t bear, can’t live with, and our initial bombing campaign isn’t it.

    THE DESIRE to prevent harm to innocent civilians in Gaza will ultimately lead to harming the truly innocent: the residents of southern Israel. The residents of Gaza are not innocent, they elected Hamas. The Gazans aren’t hostages; they chose this freely, and must live with the consequences.

    I agree with this:

    There is no justification for the State of Gaza being able to shoot at our towns with impunity.

    But this sounds way over the top:

    We need to flatten entire neighborhoods in Gaza. Flatten all of Gaza. The Americans didn’t stop with Hiroshima – the Japanese weren’t surrendering fast enough, so they hit Nagasaki, too.

    That sounds sick, and I don’t see how it will heal the deep wounds in the Middle East.

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  6. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    meh, this one worked for me:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8141848/Asset-sales-petition-gets-its-numbers

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  7. Steve (North Shore) (4,559 comments) says:

    The Asset Sales Petition should not fly. It has many Donald Duck, Mickey Mouse, Rufus Paynter and similar signatures.
    Leftie bullshit just to attack National and John Key. Not worth the paper it is written on

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  8. duggledog (1,554 comments) says:

    Will the 310,000 who voted No Asset Sales like higher taxes, more borrowing and fries with that?

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  9. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    PG,
    A Morsi advisor has assured him that Isreal will be flattened within ten years.
    You make no mention of the religious divide?

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  10. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    One third of migrants leave after they get permanent residency. Two thirds of British and 80% of Chinese return home (but can still vote National?) . Only 18% of investors from China remained. South Africans and Indians headed for greener pastures in Australia. An ethnic council spokesman cited “don’t feel accepted, poorly paid, the weather”.
    A lot of immigrants “aren’t coming to settle they are coming to obtain an oppurtunity to be resident here”
    The suggestion (preffered solution) is speed up family unification>

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/summerreport/audio/2543071/study-shows-many-immigrants-who-get-nz-residency-then-leave.asx

    how much property have they bought?

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  11. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    joana – I made no mention of many things. There are many divides in the ME, within and between religions, within and between countries. I was simply commenting on one Op-Ed that highlights some of the extreme thinking there. It will be difficult to bridge any divides with that attitude (and many other entrenched attitudes).

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  12. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Hj,
    They do the same in Aussie..it is like an insurance policy..tho some of the poms feels guilty whilst doing it.

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  13. TimG_Oz (862 comments) says:

    Top 10 Worst decisions of UN in 2012

    http://www.unwatch.org/cms.asp?id=3688530&campaign_id=63111

    Happy New Year!

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  14. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    Peace must come from within the areas that are under constant conflict, it won’t come from outside. Something will happen that will polarize both sides to seek it out, something that will make both sides hang their heads low.

    I don’t think it will be anytime soon though there will be cessations of violence it will continue on and off.

    Or

    Peace is achieved outside of all the players involved from the people themselves.

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  15. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    The 310,000 signed the petition because the assets generate returns higher than our debt cost.

    On selling them we pass on half the rising asset values to private owners – this will increase the amount of debt we have relative to the assets we hold.

    Some are confused (even the government changes its approach from time to time according to the political wind of the moment) as to the argument for the part privatisation – it is not to reduce our debt burden and it certainly will not do this. The argument for it is to provide a larger local stock market for investors and to bring private management into the running of the companies.

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  16. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Organisers say they have over 340,000 signatures, enough to allow ones that are ruled invalid.

    National have chosen a half arsed policy and they haven’t explained or sold it well.

    But the petition is a political stunt that spits on the concept of ‘citizen initiated’ referenda, it’s an abuse of our (flawed) democratic process.

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  17. A.J (4 comments) says:

    The asset sales petition has just been VOTED best JOKE of 2013.The anti brigade thought they would get a million signatures in a month took 8.HA HA.Also the GREENIES had to offer bribes and prizes to get people to sign.Labour took to the streets during Santa parades and HOBBIT screenings and really pissed people off. 8 months to collect ,=8 months to check ,=8 months for referendum,=8 months for govt changes,SORRY sales all done and dusted.GOOD EH!

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  18. Manolo (13,743 comments) says:

    When conman meets Islamist: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/01/03/al-gore-nets-reported-100-million-in-sale-current-tv-to-al-jazeera/

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  19. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    “If the Royal Commission had looked at Vancouver (for example), why did they not pick up on the way that the city uses what they call ‘diversity planning’ as a core part of its business? Cultural diversity is not some exotic backdrop that provides good food and the odd festival. Immigrants have some serious international connections; they know the markets we are selling into; they provide new trade links and opportunities. Locally, they grow new businesses and new business sectors. They contribute disproportionately to research and development (about half of Silicon Valley employees are immigrants).”

    http://publicaddress.net/speaker/what-diversity-dividend/

    Is it diversity that makes silicon valley a success or uniformity? China has a zillion people and India a little less; 1% of a zillion is a lot of smart people. The people of silicon valley are uniformly smart. Of course you do need people who are well connected with the markets, but that doesn’t justify mass migration from over populated to nice.

    Spoonley’s big sucess story:
    Can living in laneways fix Toronto’s density issues?
    http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1307204–can-living-in-laneways-fix-toronto-s-density-issues

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  20. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10857201

    “we’ll probably run a competition where people can try and add a back-beat to Greensleeves,”

    Why the hell would you try to turn Greensleeves into a ‘Gangsta Rap’? It’s freaking Greensleeves!

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  21. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    80 mpg at 66 cents a gallon

    Natural gas in cars

    http://www.realecontv.com/videos/energy-1/80-mpg-at-66-cents-a-gallon.html

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  22. kowtow (8,434 comments) says:

    hj
    Canada has been destroyed by Trudeau’s multiculturalism. A once great nation now has a huge drug and gun crime problem and those “diverse” ethnic types live in virtual ghettoes and don’t want to be Canadian ,other than having the residential,welfare and political rights that real Canadians created.

    You won’t hear that from the MSM.

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  23. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    ‘You won’t hear that from the MSM.’

    That’s why these Kiwi bloggers don’t understand the conspiracy yet they rant and rave against the MSM

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  24. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    White House wins fight to keep drone killings of Americans secret

    A federal judge issued a 75-page ruling on Wednesday that declares that the US Justice Department does not have a legal obligation to explain the rationale behind killing Americans with targeted drone strikes.

    United States District Court Judge Colleen McMahon wrote in her finding this week that the Obama administration was largely in the right by rejecting Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests filed by the American Civil Liberties Union and The New York Times for materials pertaining to the use of unmanned aerial vehicles to execute three US citizens abroad in late 2011

    http://rt.com/usa/news/drone-kill-mcmahon-obama-245/

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  25. calendar girl (1,232 comments) says:

    “The 310,000 signed the petition because the assets generate returns higher than our debt cost.”

    That’s a simplistic and misleading argument that ignores equity earnings risk and volatility (these are not fixed-income assets) and the ongoing costs to the NZ economy of state ownership:
    – an implied Government quarantee of enterprise liabilities;
    – semi-monopoly operational behaviour; and
    – customary sub-optimal oversight of business performance by investors or potential investors who presently lack regular market-based valuation of shares.

    PG: Care to explain what you mean by “National have chosen a half arsed policy …”? (An unusually inelegant expression from you, incidentally.)

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  26. Fletch (6,361 comments) says:

    It looks like the Sandy relief fund in the U.S has become, in the words of one blogger, a ‘special interest money-fest’, with the Obama Administration exploiting loopholes in the Budget Control Act to spend more money on other groups.

    Leaders from New Jersey and New York blew up yesterday after House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) postponed a vote on an aid package related to Hurricane Sandy. But the bill is so loaded with pork projects that these officials should consider directing their anger at the Obama Administration, which is hijacking the aid meant for their constituents.

    [...]

    The real “selfishness and duplicity,” however, comes from those who insist that this bill is meant for Sandy’s victims—when in reality, it is a special-interest money fest. This is a terrible way to treat storm victims, by piling on other projects and tying them to an emotional legislative vote.

    The estimate of insured losses from Sandy comes in around $20 billion—but the total aid package proposed is three times that amount. Roughly $28 billion of the request is marked for future disaster-mitigation projects.

    The bill includes funding for Head Start, the federal day care program. As Heritage’s Lindsey Burke, the Will Skillman fellow in education policy, explains, some Head Start centers may need repairs from hurricane damage, but handing the program $100 million—as the Sandy aid package would—is a large expenditure that deserves more scrutiny.

    Other questionable items in the package, which have received wide media coverage, include money for fisheries in Alaska, free money for the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and repairs to the Smithsonian. Heritage’s Patrick Louis Knudsen adds that “there is the truly audacious $17 billion in Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) funds, an embarrassingly transparent slush fund.”

    As Heritage visiting fellow Matt Mayer has said, there is a much larger issue here. The spending request:

    reflects the President’s cavalier attitude toward spending and deficits. He intends to exploit loopholes in the Budget Control Act that allow this new spending, above existing spending limits, without offsets. In an era of chronic trillion-dollar deficits, this is an act of willful fiscal negligence.

    http://blog.heritage.org/2013/01/03/morning-bell-uproar-over-bloated-sandy-aid-package/

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  27. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Whale has highlighted why more money or aid doesn’t address some of the real ‘poverty’ problems, as NZ First MP Asenati Lole-Taylor found out:

    Annoying – I took some grocery shopping to a family who said they need help to feed their children, and found Dad drunk, and mum gone 2 to Housie

    It’s difficult to help kids in that situation.

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/01/there-is-no-helping-bludgers/

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  28. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Business fights imminent post shop closure

    Business fights imminent post shop closure
    Where are we going to go to do bill payments? No one else does it. they took that service away from paper plus because they were competition to this post shop. What about all the other post related things? they could at least give that back to the mail centre on Angelsea st.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/business/8141524/Business-fights-imminent-post-shop-closure

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  29. hj (6,991 comments) says:

    “We’ve got to get the country going” Moneybags of Harcourt’s Shanghai.
    http://www.3news.co.nz/Chinese-VIPs-eye-up-800m-of-NZ-property/tabid/369/articleID/172216/Default.aspx

    “Comes down to who we think “ourselves” is, and whether we acknowledge it changes over time.”
    http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/speaker-what-diversity-dividend/?i=25#replies

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  30. Fletch (6,361 comments) says:

    I posted this late yesterday on the GD thread (from an email that is doing the rounds), but it’s worth posting again for those who didn’t see it. A better way to look at the “fiscal cliff” in terms of amounts of money we’re used to dealing with –

    A better way to look at the “fiscal cliff” –

    Lesson # 1:

    * U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
    * Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
    * New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
    * National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
    * Recent budget cuts: $ 38,500,000,000

    Let’s now remove 8 zeros and pretend it’s a household budget:

    * Annual family income: $21,700
    * Money the family spent: $38,200
    * New debt on the credit card: $16,500
    * Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
    * Total budget cuts: $385

    Got It ?????

    OK now Lesson # 2: Here’s another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:

    Let’s say, You come home from work and find there has been a sewer backup in your neighborhood….and your home has sewage all the way up to your ceilings.
    What do you think you should do ……
    Raise the ceilings, or pump out the crap?

    So really, the so-called “budget” is practically useless…

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  31. TimG_Oz (862 comments) says:

    Is it just me, or does the world feel a little strange when people are fleeing Socialist France to go to Free Russia

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/8142574/Depardieu-becomes-Russian-to-avoid-tax

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  32. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Ron Paul – USA Is Setting Up For A Military Dictatorship *It Happened*

    The title sums it up. Ron Paul deserves to be heard!
    FFS He warned America 3 years ago!!!!!
    and now… Dec.2/11 Update:

    “The U.S. Senate approved a bill that is said to “explicitly create a police state”: The National Defense Authorization Act.

    The NDAA, passed by a vote of 93 to 7, virtually stated that all of the United States may be considered a battlefield, and therefore the American military is permitted to indefinitely detain any American perceived to be a threat.”

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  33. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Depardieu, shows that he would trade civil liberties and democracy for a lower tax rate.

    The real irony is how seamlessly Rusia moved from state capitalist with a communist party elite to crony oligarchy capitalism with an elected dictatorship (and party) elite.

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  34. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    hinamanu, the goal is not military dictatorship, it is increasing government capacity to secure the elite from any domestic challenge. Someone is using fear of external threat (the Americans see themselves as a world empire that is in decline and with many enemies out to cause them to fall) to manage the consequences of increasing wealth and income disparity at home.

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  35. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    Fletch,

    Lesson # 1:

    * U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
    * Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
    * New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
    * National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
    * Recent budget cuts: $ 38,500,000,000

    Let’s now remove 8 zeros and pretend it’s a household budget:

    * Annual family income: $21,700
    * Money the family spent: $38,200
    * New debt on the credit card: $16,500
    * Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
    * Total budget cuts: $385

    Got It ?????

    Your analogy is flawed. Tax revenue is not analogous to family income. If the nation is a “family” then the proper analogy to family income is gross domestic product.

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  36. Fletch (6,361 comments) says:

    It’s not my analogy – it’s going around in an email.
    But I do think that removing the zeros makes it easier for people to understand the fact that the new taxing the so-called rich is no solution at all, especially while the Dems don’t want any cuts in spending. Shoot, even I know to cut down on spending it I don’t have any money in the bank.

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  37. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    @SPC

    Thanks bud. The only wealth though is for the banksters and industrial military complex

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  38. Kea (12,784 comments) says:

    Nobel Peace prize winner update:

    The Obama administration is moving ahead with the sale of nearly $11 billion worth of arms and training for the Iraqi military despite concerns that Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki is seeking to consolidate authority, create a one-party Shiite-dominated state and abandon the American-backed power-sharing government.

    http://stratrisks.com/geostrat/10175

    Lucky for Obama, he is excused the same scrutiny Bush was, due to him looking more like his dad than his mum. He can be thankful he is judged on the colour of his skin, not the content of his character.

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  39. cha (4,009 comments) says:

    It’s not my analogy – it’s going around in an email

    Repeater repeats, again.

    http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/02/payroll-tax-holiday-expires-see-how-much-youll-pay-now/

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  40. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Hi everybody!

    Just for some light reading, today we have the Grauniad telling us that we need to value and respect paedophiles.

    And, from the ‘enlightened’ police forces in the UK, via The Defence Brief blog:

    One case is worth mentioning in the “I can’t understand why he was arrested” category.  Police are called by a wife who says she’s been assaulted by her husband.  Police arrive and the wife gives her account, which is that her husband had been in contact with his ex so the ex could have contact with their kids who live with him.  Current wife doesn’t like this and says she flew off the handle and attacked her husband initially with fists and then when he put his hand up to ward off her blows she bit him.  Shortly after she told police that she threw a glass bottle at him, which broke a window.

    He gave an identical account in all respects except he says she threw his mobile telephone, destroying it along with the window, and not a bottle.

    For reasons I cannot fathom the police arrested him, held him in a cell for 14 hours and then interviewed him during which they asked virtually no questions.  He gave his account and the officer said, “that’s what she told us”, quickly read her account then ended the interview and NFA’d the case!

    I can tell you that any local defence lawyer will confirm that this happens in NZ as well, so we shouldn’t feel too superior.

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  41. David Garrett (7,270 comments) says:

    FES: Are you surprised by the lefties defence of paedos? You shouldnt be. I remember having this very argument re paedophiles at uni more than 20 years ago…the response was “oh, that won’t ever happen, paedophilia is illegal”. I made the obvious response that homosexuality was too, until recently (it was recent then) before we decided to “normalize” it and declare it to be just another orientation. Once you have done that, the road is wide open to “normalize” any other deviancy…(I am using deviancy in its proper sense of “deviating from the norm”)

    There has been the same derisive snorts on here about those who say “marriage equality” (every time I read that I mentally take my hat off to whoever came up with it) will lead inevitably to normalizing polygamous, polyamorous or even bestial relationships. Perfectly logical progression.

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  42. MT_Tinman (3,184 comments) says:

    calendar girl (828) Says:
    January 4th, 2013 at 10:39 am
    “The 310,000 signed the petition because the assets generate returns higher than our debt cost.”

    PG: Care to explain what you mean by “National have chosen a half arsed policy …”? (An unusually inelegant expression from you, incidentally.)

    Pete appears to be busy but I’m guessing it means his leader has advised him he has more chance of retaining access to the trough by becoming Labour lackeys before the next election.

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  43. cha (4,009 comments) says:

    Well ACT did finally abandon Peron.

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  44. Kea (12,784 comments) says:

    F E Smith, yes it does happen here. Big time.

    A man can be thrown out of his house, by police, and be unable to enter his own property or see his kids, based on the say-so of a woman (Police Safety Order). Of course the woman could be thrown out, but how often does that happen ? (Yeah Right)

    Later she can make that situation more permanent by telling lies to get a protection order. Our justice system is institutionalized misandry. Denials to the contrary are rubbish. I have seen this many times with my own eyes and it sickens me.

    Women in Saudia Arabia have as much equality, in law, as men do in NZ. It may sound extreme, but I stand by it. It is an appalling anti male society we live in. The most extreme and damaging feminist doctrine is completely normalised.

    Yet kiwi girls are a miserable sullen bunch, go figure…

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  45. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    DG,

    Nope, not surprised at all. It is simply Fabianism at work. But I like to point it out from time to time. The common law age of consent was 12, so I expect that there will eventually be some argument to reduce the current statutory age of consent as well towards that level.

    And I agree that legalising polygamous/polyamorous marriage is inevitable once gay marriage is brought in. I am not one who accepts the bestial argument, however.

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  46. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Paedos are not human. I met two in one year. Nothing looks back from their eyes.

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  47. Kea (12,784 comments) says:

    And I agree that legalising polygamous/polyamorous marriage is inevitable once gay marriage is brought in.

    True. So what?

    The penalty for polygamy is multiple mothers in law. Imagine coming home late from the pub or forgetting to do something around the house, with 5 wives ! Let nature take its course I say :)

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  48. Kea (12,784 comments) says:

    Paedos are not human. I met two in one year. Nothing looks back from their eyes.

    Monique Watson, That is just what pedos want you to think. Because the fact is, they often come across very well socially. They depend on their social skills to gain access to kids. While anxious mum is looking out for dodgy creepy pedos, Mr Charming is fiddling with her kids.

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  49. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    I had one (a paedo) evicted. Long story short, he got the locks changed on him and beaten up by a crook who owed me a favor. Another talked his way into my house for Christmas day. He was later done for kiddie porn and to this day has a loyal but silly cunt of a wife and two daughters sticking by him . It makes me sick how people fall over themselves to excuse the inexcusable.

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  50. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    @Kea. Totally agree. I was fooled by a paedo. I thought: “what a nice lad. All he needs is a chance in life”. Was the best life lesson I have learned. He was sweet talking me while dragging intermediate school children back to he flat and did 10k worth of damage to my property.

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  51. Kea (12,784 comments) says:

    Monique, I can understand your feelings, but socially isolating someone will tend to increase deviant behaviour, not reduce it. Not sure about the legality of throwing someone out and getting them “beaten up”, but there again, I am no lawyer :)

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  52. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Ha ha. :) I didn’t organise for ‘im to get the beats. I was fairly sure what would ‘appen if the guy I’d talked to changed the locks on my flat, but I didn’t break my heart over it. #finestmomentasaMom

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  53. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    Can’t say I’ve ever met a Paedo- but I’d imagine they look something like Keith Moon as Uncle Ernie in Tommy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFhO7EU08Tg

    Dirty old rotters….

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  54. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    hj notes:

    One third of migrants leave after they get permanent residency. Two thirds of British and 80% of Chinese return home (but can still vote National?) . Only 18% of investors from China remained.

    Leaving behind “row upon row of ostentatious houses” in places like Howick, bought with the “investment” they used to enter NZ, inhabited by their teenage children so as to gain access to free, quality schooling. Yet when I pointed this out in a speech (written for Winston) a whole 16 years ago, using that phrase, it was derided as xenophobic and even racist. It seems our trousers have remained firmly at half mast since then.

    I wonder we will ever have the courage to value citizenship highly enough so as to grant it only to those people who want to make a life in NZ, truly invest in its growth by buying or starting a business or by gaining employment, and who’ll be as proud of the title “New Zealander” as those of us born there?

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  55. Kea (12,784 comments) says:

    Rex, I think we should change the focus of our immigration policy. We should give extra consideration to those who want to live outside of Auckland, and imbrace our way of life.

    I have a German friend. Young, educated, healthy, love NZ and our way of life. Very good English and has been here on a working visa. It is pretty much impossible for her to live here. She is a qualified physiotherapist. She has managed to get a scholarship to study here. But that will not give her permanent residency. She has worked her guts out trying to immigrate here.

    This is in contrast to some Chinese I know. Nothing against Chinese, but our system has the wrong focus.

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  56. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    @Kea

    Exactly. That’s the flip side. Often highly qualified people, who’d make excellent citizens, finding they’re rejected by the system. Broadly speaking, if you’be got money and the authorities can’t connect you to a criminal record, your entry is automatic since the view is that we can never have enough “investors”. But all too often that investment is illusory. OTOH if you’re in any other category – including skills – you face an uphill battle.

    It seems, though, that to qualify as a skilled migrant your German friend would need only NZ registration as a physiotherapist. Is there an issue with international equivalency?

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  57. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    Kea- I’m all for more German girls emigrating to NZ….

    http://thebrigade.thechive.com/2012/08/13/because-im-worldly-german-girls-of-euro-cup-49-photos/

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  58. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    MT_Tinman, no, I haven’t been advised anything, and I speak for myself. And it’s easy to see where the mistakes have been made. National haven’t managed the rollout of their MOM very well. They seemed to think winning the election was enough.

    They’ve been out PR’d by Greens (in particular) and by Labour. They tried to sneak through a relaxation of the 49% maximum and were pulled up on it. They have been outmaneuvered by some Maori interests which have substantially intefered with the rollout, to the extent that they will really struggle to get all SOE’s floated this term. Hanging their credibility on getting all stated SOE’s floated in one term in very difficult financial conditions is a major risk.

    The majority of the public are not on National’s side on this. Their strategists/policy managers have to take responsibility for that. They could get hammered even more. If for some odd reason Shearer suddenly becomes popular and the Labour caucus suddenly looks like a credible alternative then National could take a major hit from a not very well packaged or implemented policy. It all looks half arsed to me.

    Do you think everything has gone according to a good plan?

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  59. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Hands up all National supporters who think everything associated with the MOM policy went well last year.

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  60. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    F E Smith says:

    Just for some light reading, today we have the Grauniad telling us that we need to value and respect paedophiles.

    No, what you actually have is the Telegraph telling us that the Grauniad is telling us that we need to value and respect paedophiles.

    If you read the original article (the Guardian’s, not the Telegraph’s pot-shots), you may take a different view. Nowhere in the article is the word “value” used, nor the word “respect”. It canvases a variety of viewpoints on the topic without, it seems to me, coming down in favour of any.

    Yes it does quote some research (respectable, neurological research) which concludes that “paedophilia ‘is a sexual orientation’ and therefore ‘unlikely to change’.”:

    Research at the sexual behaviours clinic of Canada’s Centre for Addiction and Mental Health suggests [...] Paedophiles may be wired differently.

    But it also notes that;

    Child protection agencies [my emphasis] and many who work with sex offenders dislike this. “Broadly speaking, in the world of people who work with sex offenders here, [paedophilia] is learned behaviour,” says Donald Findlater, director of research and development at the Lucy Faithfull Foundation, a charity dedicated to preventing child sexual abuse […] I believe it is learned, and can be unlearned.”

    Chris Wilson of Circles UK, which helps released offenders, also rejects the idea that paedophilia is a sexual orientation

    I’ll admit that’s the polar opposite of the opinions (on both sides) I thought I’d find. Generally the psychologists are the ones saying people can be “cured” of offending behaviours while the official agencies take a much more conservative view. But here’s an agency in agreement with an offender support group.

    That debate is important from the perspective of protecting children. If the psychologists are wrong and pedophiles aren’t “wired differently” but instead can be “reprogrammed” then properly structured in-prison and post-release programs would reduce the risk of reoffending.

    Even more importantly, if people who believed they were in danger of offending (but had till that point broken no law) could access a program which was successful in “unlearning” them, offending overall would be reduced.

    Simply because the article canvases a small number of studies which claim pedophilia does not harm the child (and which it readily admits are “not, obviously, a widely held view”) while at the same time detailing the much larger number of studies that do conclude it is damaging does not mean it is “telling us that we need to value and respect paedophiles”. It is merely doing what a decently written article should do, and giving its readers access to a range of data so that they are free to draw their own conclusions.

    I’d have thought you’d have considered it in that light – or at least lookled at the original source – before accepting the rather phlegmatic account of it in the Telegraph, FES.

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  61. Kea (12,784 comments) says:

    It seems, though, that to qualify as a skilled migrant your German friend would need only NZ registration as a physiotherapist. Is there an issue with international equivalency?

    The level of training is higher in Germany and I am sure it would not be a problem to gain recognition. I think the issue is that physio’s are not listed as having a needed skill. I believe it has to do with ACC pulling funding, or something. She is a smart girl and has looked at every thing. She is just the sort we need here, to replace all our good people going to Aussie.

    Agreed, Longknives. She is gorgeous :)

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  62. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    @Kea

    I’m sure your friend has explored her options but the latest “long term skills shortage list” shows Physiotherpists (page 7) and says of the requirements only:

    NZ registration. (A qualification in this area of absolute skill shortage is: a Bachelor of Physiotherapy)

    That document is July 2012 though I’d imagine they’d update it if it were incorrect… perhaps not. I’d just advise her to keep asking different people.

    I’m working through the ridiculously complex process of obtaining a partner visa for my partner (who’s pretty gorgeous also :-D) and we get different answers on things depending upon who we ask. Though Australian immigration (who made a spelling mistake on her entry documents and now refuse to accept she is who she says she is even though she has a drivers license and other documentation in the correct name) are far worse.

    Her situation is complicated by the fact that she hasn’t oobtained registration as a psychologist yet, but we really need to get back to NZ because of my parents’ state of health. Otherwise the one common factor advice we’ve received from all sources is that virtually any health registration = welcomed with open arms.

    Best of luck to your friend.

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  63. David Garrett (7,270 comments) says:

    Rex: I do not have your facility with finding and references sources, but I have also read research indicating that paedophilia is an orientation – it is what I was trying to say on the now infamous TV discussion prior to my become an MP. This is not particularly new research, and it does have massive and frightening implications. Regardless of whose favourite UK newspaper has the fairest summary of it.

    Just as you cannot “cure” heterosexuality or homosexuality, if paedophilia is an orientation, you can’t cure that either. Then cue immediate navel gazing from stage one philosophy students about the morality of criminalising a behaviour that is “normal” to the person exhibiting it, in that they are simply following their drives, as dogs sniff each other’s arses and piss over lamp posts marked by other dogs.

    I give it a generation or less for this to become as active a discussion as “marriage equality” is now.

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  64. Kea (12,784 comments) says:

    Thanks Rex. I will let her know about that. The requirements are constantly changing and she may now be in a better position.

    Good luck with the visa thing. I think that is pretty tough here too. As I understand it, Australia has a Fiance Visa, but NZ does not. They are paranoid about all the Kiwi men marrying decent women from more civilised societies, I suspect. Just today, I had a Japanese friend asking me about this very thing. I met her in NZ and she is coming to visit me for a month or so. We were wondering, if we pursue a relationship, if she can get a Visa to allow her to stay longer.

    I have a number of friends from overseas. Most had a real struggle to live here. The process is long and stressful. It can also be expensive if you hire an immigration specialist. They are all good people.

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  65. Kea (12,784 comments) says:

    This is the direct result of feminists trying to prevent kiwi blokes marrying real women. We talk a lot about gays having the right to marry and their human rights, but just look at the shit you have to go through to marry a woman you love, here in NZ.

    I am ok with gays getting married. But I think us hetrosexuals should be able to marry a woman. Socialist feminist NZ is one of hardest places to do this.

    In general, New Zealand immigration law differs from those of other English-speaking countries, particularly such popular migration destinations as Australia, England, Canada, and the USA. The process of obtaining a visa for your prospective spouse to come to New Zealand does not work the same way as in other countries. For instance, permanent residents and citizens of the UK and Australia can bring a foreign national to their country under the prospective marriage (fiancee) visa category, while in US immigration law the K-1 fiancee visa category is designed to allow a US citizen to bring a foreign fiancee to America for the purpose of getting married. In New Zealand, however, an eligible sponsor can only bring someone into the country on a residence visa. There is no fiancee visa category in New Zealand migration law. Besides, it is strictly required that the sponsor and intended immigrant have been married or living in a de facto relationship for at least one year immediately preceding the filing of the residence visa application.

    http://www.marriagevisahelp.com/index.php?page=new-zealand-immigration-spouse-de-facto-and-same-sex-partner-visas

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  66. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    I remember years ago the hardcore feminists at University staging a mock (heterosexual) marriage ceremony while they waved signs and chanted things like “marriage equals rape”.
    Needless to say they all looked like they fell out of the ugly tree, and soap was definitely a foreign concept to them.

    Otago University was a strange place in the 1990s…

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  67. Kea (12,784 comments) says:

    Longknives, there was a time, long long ago, when the “feminists” were about giving women a fair go. Now it is a political & social engineering force. They are at the forefront of hard line socialism and the deconstruction of our societies norms.

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  68. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    Longknives (2,005) Says:
    January 4th, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    Kea- I’m all for more German girls emigrating to NZ….

    http://thebrigade.thechive.com/2012/08/13/because-im-worldly-german-girls-of-euro-cup-49-photos/
    —————————————————–

    Everyone of them looks light years better than the fat arsed slappers one see’s daily wandering in and out of the local wins office.

    What ever you do don’t google that phrase. Yea Gods.

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  69. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    V2- You are correct. Kiwi girls must be some of the most horrendous examples of femininity on the planet (ducks for cover…)
    Glad you appreciated the pics- Pictures 5 and 6 make me want to travel Europe again…

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  70. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    Longknives
    We have a lot of goreous ones here as well. Potentially less sophisticated.
    You should google “fat arsed slappers” and have a look at some from oversea’s.
    We are surronded by them wherever we go. Horrible stuff.

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  71. David Garrett (7,270 comments) says:

    Back to the paedos Rex…you talk about the possibility of “unlearning” that behaviour..aka reprogramming or brainwashing…You have seen “Clockwork Orange” I presume? Mr Burgess might have got the fashions wildly wrong, but he was right on the academic hand wringing…

    Philosophy 101 essay topic about 2021: “Society has no right to ‘reprogram’ individuals of different sexual orientations no matter how repugnant the behaviour of individuals of that orientation may be. Discuss”

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  72. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    @David Garrett:

    I do not have your facility with finding and references sources

    No great intellect at work in this case DG, just click FES’s link, then click the link on that to the original Guardian story. And find out the Telegraph has written an absolute beat-up.

    but I have also read research indicating that paedophilia is an orientation [...] it does have massive and frightening implications.

    Yes, but what I find interesting is that in the actual Guardian story it’s the “laboratory experts” versus “the real world experts” on this. Psychologists and neurologists studying pedophiles in the unnatural setting of a psych lab and an MRI machine say “orientation” while those responsible for detecting and prosecuting seem to be aligned with those who provide post-release support to convicted pedophiles in saying it’s learned behaviour and so can be changed.

    That supports my own belief, which in turn is based on the very good work done by a number of programs including one called SAFE Care here in Western Australia, which was headed by Christabel Chamarette, who was also a Principal Member of the then Parole Board of Western Australia, a Consultant to Department of Justice, and a Clinical Supervisor at the YMCA.

    SAFE Care was a program which allowed someone who felt the urge to offend against children to join the program and “unlearn” the underlying causes, provided they had committed no unprosecuted offence up to that point. Its aim was to keep the family unit together (though sometimes in the early part of their treatment men were temporarily moved out of the home).

    Over 20 years about 700 men sought treatment. It recorded the lowest recidivism rate of all child sexual abuse prevention programs worldwide with fewer than 2 percent, suggesting that the theory it is an orientation is wrong (or, if correct, that it can be altered unlike, say, homosexuality). That’s surely great news, regardless of how you feel about the pedophile – if encouraged to confess before they offend, they can be “cured” and less children become victims.

    Then, because the pitchfork-and-torche brigade started squawking about “money being spent on pedophiles” it was promptly unfunded and closed by alarmist politicians, thus putting perhaps 70 children a year at risk (based on an average of 35 pedophiles a year who would have undergone the program, and guessing two victims each when they didn’t).

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  73. Dotcom (1,386 comments) says:

    Oversea’s?

    What’s oversea’s?

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  74. Dotcom (1,386 comments) says:

    Conversely — sun’s back out

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  75. Dotcom (1,386 comments) says:

    bye

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  76. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    @David Garrett:

    Society has no right to ‘reprogram’ individuals of different sexual orientations no matter how repugnant the behaviour of individuals of that orientation may be. Discuss

    Programs like SAFE Care are voluntary. They have to be to work… just like an alcoholic must want to give up drinking etc. Other treatment is tried once the offender has offended and been found guilty, thus forfeiting certain of their rights. The rehabilitative concept of prison rests upon the notion we can ‘reprogram’ anyone from a pickpocket to a murderer and in many cases we can. “Reprogramming” is a value-laden term which isn’t an accurate description of the therapeutic techniques used… there’s no strapping into chairs and forcing the subject to undergo painful and unpleasant “treatment” (though it can be painful and unpleasant facing the damage you have caused to your family and your victim(s)).

    So as you reminded me the other day, as a civil libertarian I must still accept that some freedoms must be curtailed for the protection of vulnerable members of society and for that society to function as something other than a barbarian outpost. In that caseI did not, in this case I do.

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  77. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    We are living in age of wealth transfers to very high income health professionals, and moderately high income educators. I think their individual incomes can rise, but some modest efficiencies will be required over an extended time-frame. (And they will squeal. Remember the teachers unions own the Labour Party.)

    Without more ideas about how to innovate in the provision of government services, battles such as one sees playing out in the US today can only become worse, as voters are increasingly asked to pay more for less. Politicians can and will promise to do a better job, but they cannot succeed unless we identify ways to boost government services’ efficiency and productivity.

    Avoiding US-style tax/spend gridlock
    http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/62615/fridays-top-10-nz-mint-efficiency-services-trojan-horse-suburban-malls-gerard-depardie
    http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/the-economics-of-inexorably-rising-government-costs-by-kenneth-rogoff

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  78. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    David Garrett (3,097) Says:
    January 4th, 2013 at 4:25 pm

    Rex: I do not have your facility with finding and references sources, but I have also read research indicating that paedophilia is an orientation – it is what I was trying to say on the now infamous TV discussion prior to my become an MP. This is not particularly new research, and it does have massive and frightening implications. Regardless of whose favourite UK newspaper has the fairest summary of it.

    Just as you cannot “cure” heterosexuality or homosexuality, if paedophilia is an orientation, you can’t cure that either. Then cue immediate navel gazing from stage one philosophy students about the morality of criminalising a behaviour that is “normal” to the person exhibiting it, in that they are simply following their drives, as dogs sniff each other’s arses and piss over lamp posts marked by other dogs.

    I give it a generation or less for this to become as active a discussion as “marriage equality” is now.

    I see no reason to be frightened. Those who are seem to fall for that classic fallacy that what is natural is necessarily good/moral/ethical. For me that has always been irrelevant to the homosexual debate. What was relevant is that their desires and behaviours have never been anyone’s business but their own and they should suffer no loss of dignity, respect or equality for something that causes no injury to anyone else.

    On the other hand that someone is destined to be a paedophile through no fault of their own does not determine the morality of any behavior that might eventuate as a consequence of their predisposition. A paedophile is no more excused from societies regulations against their inclinations than a schizophrenic is from theirs. To assume that political discourse will necessary proceed from marriage equality towards condoning abusive relationships is akin to believing that wheelchair ramps will lead to condoning the murderous rampages of a hallucinating schizophrenic who has gone off their medication.

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  79. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Rex,

    I did read the Grauniad’s article. I am perfectly aware that the Telegraph column is over-egging it. I also realised that it would probably be more fun to link to that than it would be to get to the original article.

    I have been aware for a long time of the various arguments raised there and here. The significance, and this is really the point of the hyperbolic Telegraph column, is that this is even being raised, given the usual reaction. It appears to be a testing of the waters, so to speak. And I am happy to admit that my last sentence is merely speculation, rather than any sort

    Kea,

    I have no issue with polygamy/polyandry. But is having multiple fathers-in-law as bad a penalty as multiple mothers-in-law?

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  80. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    @Weihana: Nicely put.

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  81. Kea (12,784 comments) says:

    F E Smith. Somehow I doubt multiple fathers-in-law would be quite as invasive.

    Well I am off to meet some of these Kiwi girls, I have been busy slagging off, for a drink. They are not all bad ;)

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  82. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    @F E Smith

    Ah, I see I had failed to make sufficient allowance for your propensity to make mischief. My apologies.

    The significance, and this is really the point of the hyperbolic Telegraph column, is that this is even being raised, given the usual reaction.

    I suppose it’s considered worth exploring whether pedophiles are in fact evil, malevolent “others”, inevitably destined to harm children, difficult to detect and virtually impossible to prevent, or people who’ve learned unacceptable behaviour but who might, if there were suitable treatment programs available who did not punish them purely for what they think then it might be possible to treat them and prevent the accumulation of more victims.

    A discussion worth having at any time, but especially in the wake of the Saville case.

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  83. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Rex,

    :D

    I suspect that Saville was more of a sexual predator than an actual paedophile. That is to say that he simply took advantage of whatever group of females that he could, rather than seeking out younger ones specifically. I base that simply on some of the relatively few articles that I have read on the matter, so I more than happy to be corrected.

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  84. Fletch (6,361 comments) says:

    Those who are seem to fall for that classic fallacy that what is natural is necessarily good/moral/ethical. For me that has always been irrelevant to the homosexual debate. What was relevant is that their desires and behaviours have never been anyone’s business but their own and they should suffer no loss of dignity, respect or equality for something that causes no injury to anyone else.

    I agree with some of this statement. I do think that was is natural – is of Nature – is good and shouldn’t be perverted or subverted.
    The Pope said recently in a speech –

    The manipulation of nature, which we deplore today where our environment is concerned, now becomes man’s fundamental choice where he himself is concerned. From now on there is only the abstract human being, who chooses for himself what his nature is to be.

    This is what seems to be happening. As far as environmentalists are concerned, what is natural is good and right and moral except when it comes to human nature, in which case what is ‘right’ is whatever the person desires. It’s like just because they desire something then it must be OK (as far as homosexual desire), even if it goes against the very nature and physiology of a human being.

    I have no problem with two consenting adults doing what they want. They know the Christian view and God’s laws and so it’s up to them whether to break them or not. What I DO have a great deal of problem with is them changing to the law to make their lifestyles legal (as in the case of gay marriage etc), and to promote them as being good and normal and taught to children as being so. Everyone knows the gay lifestyle is a life where disease, dysfunction, substance abuse, suicide, and lower life span is more common – and we want to subject our children to this? Why?

    It’s worth pointing out that as far as orientation, the world’s leading expert on the history of homosexuality is Dr David Greenburg, a New York sociologist, who is gay himself and is the author of a 635 page academic study of homosexuality through the ages called “The Construction of Homosexuality”. It has been hailed within academic circles as the most “extensive and thorough” analysis of homosexuality ever published. And what does he say? That homosexuality is a lifestyle choice. He said he had “an obligation to the truth”. Greenburg looked at all recodred examples of homosexuality. Every single one, he wrote, could be traced back to sexual behaviour practice rather than an innate sexual identity.

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  85. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    by Ivan | 04 Jan 13, 11:03am

    Next money making scheme for the Govt. Tyres are to change colour to orange as they wear out. Boy, I’ll just bet the nazi cops that we have on the roads these day are sure to jump on that band wagon, and pull up anybody with the hint of orange on a tyre. Just another thing to take the fun out of motoring for the long suffering motorist.

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  86. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    Kea, just for you.

    http://screencast.com/t/rWTRgbwADWV

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  87. kowtow (8,434 comments) says:

    Chickens coming home to roost.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256850/How-feminism-blame-breakdown-family-Left-winger-Diane-Abbott.html

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  88. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    Hobart has already recorded its highest temperature on record today.

    The island capital hit 41.3C at 1.53pm, beating a previous high of 40.8C set in January 1976, but temperatures were expected to rise further before nightfall.

    “This is an extremely bad day,” Tasmania Fire Service chief officer Mike Brown told ABC radio. “Yesterday is probably as bad as we’ve had since the `06/07 fires when we had disastrous fires in many areas of the state.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/searing-heat-puts-nation-on-edge-with-high-fire-warnings-issued-for-many-states/story-e6frg6nf-1226547552054

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  89. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    n South Australia, farming properties were under threat this afternoon as a bushfire burned out of control in grassland and scrub on South Australia’s Fleurieu Peninsula.

    The blaze was among several across the state as temperatures soared into the high 40s in some centres, and reached a scorching 44.5C in Adelaide.

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  90. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    WHAT YOUR STAR SIGN SAYS ABOUT YOU:

    ARIES
    You tend to be headstrong and deliberate in your actions. Basically you don’t give a fuck about anyone. Most people hate you but you couldn’t care less. You’re the type of person who would masturbate at a wedding.

    TAURUS
    Warm and caring are your most endearing characteristics. You get on well with most people because you’re bisexual. You hardly ever wear underwear and you constantly smell of piss.

    GEMINI
    Your star sign denotes an air of duality in your character. Simply, you’re a neurotic schizophrenic. A real fucking weirdo, the type of person who’d kill himself to win a bet.

    CANCER
    You have a businesslike attitude to life and a knack for making money. You’re an unscrupulous bastard who would sell a relative’s limbs to buy a mobile phone. You are likely to be murdered.

    LEO
    The adventurous type, always looking for thrills and willing to try anything. In other words, stupid. You have the IQ of a garden snail and will never amount to anything. Most Leos are living on the welfare.

    VIRGO
    You like the good things in life and you know how to enjoy them. But you’re prone to bullshitting and you’re a cheap bastard. Virgo men are usually gay and the majority of Virgo women are whores.

    LIBRA
    You are the forgiving type and you don’t bear grudges. This makes you an arsehole. For your entire life people will make a complete prick out of you. Nobody will go to your funeral.

    SCORPIO
    You are sharp, a quick thinker and good at puzzles. However these are your only good traits. You screw small animals and love picking your nose. You always have snot on your clothes.

    SAGITTARIUS
    You are the romantic type, soft-hearted and a lover of the arts. You are likely to import Dutch pornography and sex toys. You thrive on incest.

    CAPRICORN
    You are deep and personal in your thoughts, the quiet type. A mean self-centred arsehole and a closet homosexual. Your best friend is probably an altar boy.

    AQUARIUS
    You are the academic type and will probably end up working in the legal system. This means you are an absolute pervert, at the least a transvestite. Your ideal sexual partner is a Labrador puppy wearing fishnet tights.

    PISCES
    You are the eternal optimist, seeing the best of any situation. You have no grasp of reality and live in a dream world. Most people consider you to be the greatest living moron. You will continually fail. You’re a prick.

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  91. Manolo (13,743 comments) says:

    A fallen Green idol: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/a-tale-of-two-als-why-al-gore-sold-out-to-al-jazeera-8437727.html

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  92. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    nasska

    I’ve always regarded horoscopes as a load of tripe. I guess that’s because I’m just a typical Taurus – skeptical and inflexible :)

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  93. Griff (7,677 comments) says:

    Nice red sunsets for us then v2
    Nothing like the smell of burning kola fuckers on the morning breeze

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  94. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    Now I understand…..

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ahpd54yag3hmc7t/OnTopOfYou.jpg

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  95. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    A Taurus Rodders?

    Oh dear! :)

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  96. Longknives (4,737 comments) says:

    How did you know I was a Capricorn AND a Catholic Nasska??

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  97. nasska (11,468 comments) says:

    It was only a guess Longknives! :)

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  98. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    Don’t know which is worse. No undies or ya smell of piss. :lol:

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  99. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    This is quite good. Jeff Sachs BTW was one of Milton Freidman’s acolytes from the Chicago School which promulgated Hayeckian a.k.a. Reaganomics a.k.a. Rogernomics.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-four-business-gangs-that-run-the-us-20121230-2c1e2.html

    Sachs says the main thing to remember about the corporatocracy is that it looks after its own. ”There is absolutely no economic crisis in corporate America.

    ”Consider the pulse of the corporate sector as opposed to the pulse of the employees working in it: corporate profits in 2010 were at an all-time high, chief executive salaries in 2010 rebounded strongly from the financial crisis, Wall Street compensation in 2010 was at an all-time high, several Wall Street firms paid civil penalties for financial abuses, but no senior banker faced any criminal charges, and there were no adverse regulatory measures that would lead to a loss of profits in finance, health care, military supplies and energy,” he says.

    The 30-year achievement of the corporatocracy has been the creation of America’s rich and super-rich classes, he says. And we can now see their tools of trade.

    ”It began with globalisation, which pushed up capital income while pushing down wages. These changes were magnified by the tax cuts at the top, which left more take-home pay and the ability to accumulate greater wealth through higher net-of-tax returns to saving.”

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  100. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    Hands up those who think Pelosi forgot to wear her bra that day…

    http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/03/16309992-unloved-for-so-long-congress-not-fazed-by-publics-disapproval

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  101. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    A new concept is aiming to make it easier for motorists to know when it’s time to buy new tyres.

    Yanko Design has unveiled the “Discolour Tyre” which will change colour when the tread reaches an unsafe level.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/8140088/Tyre-wear-sees-concept-design-turn-orange

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  102. calendar girl (1,232 comments) says:

    PG: I could understand your being opposed to the MOM partial sell-down of state assets, but you adduce no evidence or argument for your views – just name-calling (“half arsed policy”) and the usual “political” stuff about the Government not selling the policy well.

    How about debating the policy itself for a change, rather than whether or not it is popular or will pass through the Legislature? In my view there’s more to running the country effectively – and in a prudent way when it comes to managing the economy in a difficult international environment – than waltzing around the fringes of political expediency. I’m more into principles myself.

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  103. Left Right and Centre (2,973 comments) says:

    Lots of people reckon that religion is superstitious bullshit Fletch…. and if it is… that makes everything you type a waste of space.

    It’s funny how religious sheep have to start off with a specific fixed conclusion and then try to make everything else fit in around it.

    That is just pathetic childish reasoning…. save it for your fucking fairytale book reading evenings pal. Two things wrong with religious sheep…. they believe fairytales and then try to convert people into fairytale believing morons like they are. They’re like a fucking disease that keeps trying to spread from host to host.

    Yeah.. it’s a lifestyle choice. Like believing made-up fairytales?

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  104. Fletch (6,361 comments) says:

    LR&C, except that Western culture and ethics were pretty much built on that “fairy-tale” book as you put it. And the result? The best and most compassionate culture there ever was. Try building that same culture off the Koran or Mao’s Little Red Book or Lenins’ The Communist Manifesto and, well, the results speak for themselves.

    You may argue with me, but history proves you wrong.

    I know people who are not Catholic who still send their children to Catholic school; in fact, there was an article in The Listener or North and South (I can’t remember which now), reporting on the upswing of non-religious parents lining up to get their children in to religious schools. Perhaps it’s because even though they do not totally agree with the Bible, they understand that their children are being taught good ethics and morals that the Bible and Jesus teach.

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