General Debate 9 January 2013

January 9th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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224 Responses to “General Debate 9 January 2013”

  1. duggledog (1,589 comments) says:

    Weird haze at 6.30 this morning.

    ‘Seven Sharp’ line up Mau, Boyed & the comic. Thoughts?

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  2. mikenmild (11,742 comments) says:

    Meh. Infotainment. Will make its predecessor look like a serious current affairs show.

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  3. wreck1080 (3,964 comments) says:

    Waihi ‘alleged’ killer arrested.

    Good work by the police.

    Yet, I immediately think about the ridiculously light sentences given to people convicted of murder. 1st degree cold blooded murder should be a natural life sentence with no parole. I don’t want them rehabilitated, I want them punished.

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  4. Viking2 (11,568 comments) says:

    duggledog (122) Says:
    January 9th, 2013 at 8:04 am

    Weird haze at 6.30 this morning.

    ——————-
    Global Warming
    Toasted Koala’s.

    :lol:

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  5. Manolo (14,065 comments) says:

    Arming the enemy: http://israelmatzav.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/obama-gives-hezbullah-dominated-lebanon.html

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  6. Manolo (14,065 comments) says:

    Greenie Griff’s standard answer: Haze? AGW. Fog? AGW. Heatwave? AGW. Tornado? AGW. Day & night? AGW.

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  7. Manolo (14,065 comments) says:

    Comrade Griff will be delighted, elated, and extremely hapoy:
    http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/records-will-keep-tumbling-with-blistering-heatwaves-here-to-stay-20130108-2cetq.html

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  8. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10858039

    Philander out of second test, time to put your house on the Mike Hessan inspired New Zealand Mens Cricket Team.

    We only have to worry about Morkel, Steyn and our brittle top order batting, no other worries really!!!!!!!

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  9. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    Manolo (8,636) Says:
    January 9th, 2013 at 8:27 am
    Greenie Griff’s standard answer: Haze? AGW. Fog? AGW. Heatwave? AGW. Tornado? AGW. Day & night? AGW.

    What was disturbing was his laughing emoticon when describing the fires in Australia yesterday.

    Disgusting.

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  10. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Gee sonny fail to mention that next post why not: you no the one that explains my apparent delight at the poor aussies misfortune

    Extreme weather events linked to global warming are much more important than the misery of a few roasted kola fuckers
    Eventually noddy denial will have to admit that global warming is real Ask those in the usa effected by the drought or sandy
    There will be nut job sheepie denial nutters questioning their werdo beliefs in ausie as well
    Nothing like death and destruction to sharpen the old brain cells …….eh……..

    record heat causes wild fires
    record heat is a result of global warming
    global warming has a catastrophic result for a few poor aussies
    does that make it catastrophic global warming? :lol: ask the nutters

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  11. MT_Tinman (3,257 comments) says:

    duggledog (122) Says:
    January 9th, 2013 at 8:04 am
    Weird haze at 6.30 this morning.

    ‘Seven Sharp’ line up Mau, Boyed & the comic. Thoughts?

    Not among that lot.

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  12. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    DPF, Can you host a completely separate blog for anything Bain-related. Thanks.

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  13. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Why kk they are on their own thread
    happy little bainites and bain haters all schooling together gives DPF more hits helps KB become more influential
    Have they solved it yet?
    Its simple really any one that could wear that jumper must be a serial killer :lol:

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  14. Manolo (14,065 comments) says:

    DPF, can you please host a completely separate blog for anything Bain-related? Thank you.

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  15. KiwiGreg (3,259 comments) says:

    “There will be nut job sheepie denial nutters questioning their werdo beliefs in ausie as well”

    This being the reasoned CAGW set of arguments I’m thinking.

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  16. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Why reason with nutters kg
    I have tried repeatedly it just dont work
    the result call a nutty weirdo a nutty weirdo
    doesn’t change their views but keeps me entertained :lol:

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  17. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Griff, “sheepie ” denial nutters. But I thought you said most people support the AGW theory ? Make up your mind.

    I can tell you one group that is losing/lost interest, and that is all the major “green house gas” emitters. China, India and the USA. We can safely assume they have access to all the scientific data.

    Ask those in the usa effected by the drought or sandy

    Or ask these guys in balmy India: “More than 100 people have died of exposure as northern India deals with historically cold temperatures.” http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2013/01/04/cold-weather-india-deaths/1809315/

    This was four days ago. They have never felt such freezing heat.

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  18. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    KiwiGreg – Awww, don’t mock poor old griff. His intellect-o-meter was redlining when he produced that gem.

    I see that close to 70% of the draft of the IPCC’s next work of fiction has now been leaked. It’s chock full of non-scientific grey literature from activists, lobbyists. Sigh. How long will this multi-vested interest scam go on for?

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  19. trout (944 comments) says:

    @PEB NZ cricket does not have the Players, the Pitches, and the players do not have the Patience to play the long game. If it were not for Indian funding NZ Cricket would be bankrupt. Better to move to developing skills for the shorter games (which suit our facilities and temperament). The shorter games will be more competitive and entertaining. Note that Sri Lanka is going this way. Leave the anachronistic Test matches to the top 6 countries.

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  20. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Yes kea we have had your weather report already
    I did point out to you that the record cold is not an all time record

    Temperatures in New Delhi, which borders Uttar Pradesh, hit a high Wednesday of 49.6 degrees F, the lowest maximum temperature in the capital since 1969.

    If you actually went and read about global warming you would know all about the impacts which of course include the possibility that some regions will have cooler weather extremes!
    For you its easier to just make stuff up things like conspirowhackys involving the commies and the scientist :lol: whackjob

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  21. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    How long will this multi-vested interest scam go on for?

    Krazykiwi, It is in its dying days. It will be amusing watching it all fall to bits and the AGW promoters begin making excuses for their behaviour.

    The turning point will be when the funding is cut. Once their is no money in AGW, the “scientific consensus” will change. You can be sure of it. The Hoax was originally set and up and paid for to promote Nuclear energy, by Thatcher. They had to “prove” that other forms of energy were less safe. They did what they were paid to do. It has taken on a life of its own since then.

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  22. MT_Tinman (3,257 comments) says:

    Trout, wash your mouth out – with lye soap preferably.

    PEB this NZ team have a very good record in second tests of away series, I’m picking a win ~-)

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  23. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    If you actually went and read about global warming you would know all about the impacts which of course include the possibility that some regions will have cooler weather extremes!

    Griffy, your the one using isolated “weather” events to support “climate” change. If you “actually went and read about global warming you would know” that weather is NOT climate.

    You really are a slack student, but I will persist in educating you :)

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  24. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    KK chips in with his conspirowhacky as well :lol:
    How many people will be killed before you nutters wake up to the reality around you
    you can not continue to ignore the science indefinitely sooner or later everyone will recognize blind denial for what it is
    Nut job weirdo bullshit from those with an ideological block or insufficient intelligence to tell when they are being done.
    Oh and KK hows your rapture pack added a fire extinguisher yet?

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  25. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    yes kea record warm temperatures are not to be linked to climate change that would be silly:lol:

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  26. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    Griff

    You may be on the wrong tack…..the culprit may have been found!

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/of9uxo0kiv30zza/images.jpg

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  27. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    @Trout
    ” anachronistic “

    I’m one of them, an anachronisim when it comes to cricket.

    New Zealand has never been much chop at test cricket, we have never strode the world as the best , but we have been competiive, thats all I want, I want us to be competitive enough that we get a decent team touring here every now and again like the Poms in feb/march. We will never get a top one or two team here every year unfortunately but we need top teams here so youngsters get to see the Aussies and Poms and Jaapies at the top of their games.

    Its also a fact that NZ Rugby treats the lesser nations like we are treated at cricket so I suppose what goes around comes around.

    Tinman – I love optimists and I hope you are correct

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  28. Manolo (14,065 comments) says:

    The gravy train continues on: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8155827/Treaty-legal-aid-bill-hits-79m-in-six-years
    The Stone Agers are an endless source of income for lawyers and elite.

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  29. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Griff, I am unimpressed by your “end of the world” prophecy (unless we become believers and followers). I am an atheist and are immune to it. You can dress it up all you like, vary the terminology, but it is a psuedo religion for you.

    Let go and step into the light. Man is not “evil” and Gaia will not “smite” the unbelievers.

    If you want a “cause” then there are many ligitimate environmental concerns for you to worry about. One of the most troubling things about the AGW hoax, is that real environmental concerns are getting less attention. We need to tidy our act up, no doubt about that.

    Sadly I can see that when AGW is totally debunked (soon), people may fail to support genuine causes to improve the global environment.

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  30. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    :lol:

    If ever a idiot Aussie gives me shit about sheep I point out the prevalence of wild life in the lucky country with sexually transmitted diseases and infer that this may be the result of attempts at creating inter species progeny.

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  31. Manolo (14,065 comments) says:

    Griff’s hero discredited (again): http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/01/08/current-tv-staffers-rip-al-gore-for-sale-to-al-jazeera/

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  32. mikenmild (11,742 comments) says:

    I’d like to see more separation in the NZ sides for tests versus the one-day formats. ODIs and 20/20 are where the money and spectator interest is. I think there is a need to develop test specialists, especially top-order batsmen. There would be the opportunity to develop such specialisation through our four-day competition, but NZ Cricket would have to ensure this remains a viable professional career.
    There is no way McCullum or Guptill, to take just two cases, should open the batting in test cricket.

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  33. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    kea – have a read of The Green Agenda. There’s quite a bit in there about the origins of the Global Warming scare. Well researched and linked.

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  34. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    In between your fantasy I can just discern some sort of statement about science being overturn with physics chemistry and the rest of science having to be rewritten due to some new unheralded new piece of information.
    Are you saying that KK and the rest of the rapture pack carriers are right and the world turns due to supernatural influence.

    It is not my fantasy it belongs to the entire body of science. That you continually try to place agw as a fringe belief is reflection on your cognitive dissonance It feels more tenable to you to hold your world view if you can marginalize the reality in your own mind. Hence you have built up this belief that AGW is a fringe cult and not mainstream un disputed science

    Shall I post every statement from every professional scientific organization in the modern world And include those of the governments of same.

    Views like you hold are the reason that we are facing a green coalition government in this country. Your denial allows the greens to capture the high ground in the ongoing debate around what we should do about agw. The longer the right sticks its head in the sand the more likely the left will attract voters concerned about our future.

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  35. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Krazykiwi, thanks, great link.

    Selected quotes:

    “We need to get some broad based support,
    to capture the public’s imagination…
    So we have to offer up scary scenarios,
    make simplified, dramatic statements
    and make little mention of any doubts…
    Each of us has to decide what the right balance
    is between being effective and being honest.”
    – Prof. Stephen Schneider,
    Stanford Professor of Climatology,
    lead author of many IPCC reports

    “We’ve got to ride this global warming issue.
    Even if the theory of global warming is wrong,
    we will be doing the right thing in terms of
    economic and environmental policy.”
    – Timothy Wirth,
    President of the UN Foundation

    “The data doesn’t matter. We’re not basing our recommendations
    on the data. We’re basing them on the climate models.”
    – Prof. Chris Folland,
    Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research

    You climate alarmists are busted.

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  36. thedavincimode (6,877 comments) says:

    I’d like to see more …

    You’re a sucker for punishment milkymug.

    You’ll no doubt have been very pleased to hear that the boys “were really hurting” after the first test and that they have “toughened up mentally” in the last week. Wow. It only took a week. Maybe they didn’t have time to toughen up mentally before they went there in the first place.

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  37. Viking2 (11,568 comments) says:

    Here is why there is a strange look to the sky in the south. Toasted gum trees and koala’s via jetstream direct to the South Island.

    Couple of days and they will get frozen bits as well.

    http://screencast.com/t/OYNOZlxk

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  38. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    This is why you end up making fun of the nutters
    When the global conspirwhaky talk starts:lol:
    conspircynutters :lol:

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  39. Jack5 (5,157 comments) says:

    As an antidote to Peter Calder’s sentimentalist, lefty crap in the NZ Hooer-ald today, I suggest a look at du Fresne’s column.

    Calder: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10857998

    du Fresne: (second item, “Peter, are you there”) – http://karldufresne.blogspot.co.nz/

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  40. flipper (4,205 comments) says:

    PEB says….
    “New Zealand has never been much chop at test cricket, we have never strode the world as the best , but we have been competiive, thats all I want, I want us to be competitive enough that we get a decent team touring here every now and again like the Poms in feb/march. We will never get a top one or two team here every year unfortunately but we need top teams here so youngsters get to see the Aussies and Poms and Jaapies at the top of their games.”

    Sadly it is true…. more, or less.

    When Hadlee, Howarth, Wright, Edgar, Crowe (M & J), Chatfield, Cairns, Smith and Bracewell took the field they were more than highly competitive, and with neutral umpires and modern technology, would have been, for a time anyway, the very best.

    When the Poms come next month they will no longer be able to get away with their habit of clicking their fingers in the slips to simulate a “nick”. Even the great Jack Cowie, as an umpire, fell for that nasty little trick. But being really competitive in 2013 will depend on Ryder, Taylor and Southee being added to the existing squad, and 90% plus efforts from everyone.

    Mike Hesson? Who?

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  41. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Hay Griffy…. did you check out who made those statements ?

    ““We need to get some broad based support,
    to capture the public’s imagination…
    So we have to offer up scary scenarios,
    make simplified, dramatic statements
    and make little mention of any doubts…
    Each of us has to decide what the right balance
    is between being effective and being honest.”
    – Prof. Stephen Schneider,
    Stanford Professor of Climatology,
    lead author of many IPCC reports

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  42. Manolo (14,065 comments) says:

    Thank you for the links, Jack5.
    Du Fresne’s writing is excellent, Calder’s lamentable.

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  43. David Garrett (7,548 comments) says:

    Wreck1080: Because of amendments made to the Sentencing Act at the same time three strikes was passed, if the alleged Waihi killer is eventually found guilty, LWOP (Life without Parole) is now a sentence available to the sentencing judge. Whether we will ever see such a sentence is of course another matter entirely.

    The piece of vermin who stomped his “partners” little boy to death – currently awaiting sentence – would be a prime candidate for LWOP in my view, but then I am not a a judge, and certainly will never be one.

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  44. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    I think we are getting to the stage where Peter Jackson’s movies will be longer than the Black Caps innings.

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  45. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Whale has just put up a post about a guy who wrote a book about having sex with a dolphin.

    Absolute gold http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/01/had-sex-with-a-wet-goddess-then-wrote-a-book-about-it/#disqus_thread

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  46. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Yes kea he died two years ago
    keep up with modern times why dont you

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  47. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    And kea when you omit detail and the actual context and content of a quote it exposes your duplicity.

    In 1989, Schneider addressed the challenge scientists face trying to communicate complex, important issues without adequate time during media interviews. This citation sometimes was used by his critics to accuse him of supporting misuse of science for political goals:

    On the one hand, as scientists we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but — which means that we must include all the doubts, the caveats, the ifs, ands, and buts. On the other hand, we are not just scientists but human beings as well. And like most people we’d like to see the world a better place, which in this context translates into our working to reduce the risk of potentially disastrous climatic change. To do that we need to get some broadbased support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, entails getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have. This ‘double ethical bind’ we frequently find ourselves in cannot be solved by any formula. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.

    I hope that means being both.

    Note the last words

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  48. kowtow (8,774 comments) says:

    Nice editorial from today’s ODT on the Aus fires.
    The recommendations from the 2009 Royal Commission don’t seem to include clearing bush from near habitation. Recall the case of a man who did,saved his house but was ruined by fines.
    http://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/editorial/241876/learning-bushfires

    Ecowhackery has a lot to answer for.

    Energy of the future. Hopefully on the way.But again no doubt Aotearoans will stick with keeping their heads up arse.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/9784044/China-blazes-trail-for-clean-nuclear-power-from-thorium.html

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  49. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    trying to communicate complex, important issues without adequate time during media interviews.

    So his response was to condone lying ! ( Prof. Stephen Schneider,Stanford Professor of Climatology,)

    I often have to communicate complex and important things, with no preparation. I have never felt the need to condone lying or tell lies.

    Thank you for providing the context of his statement. It clearly shows he is using science to support a “moral” position. He seems to think that claiming the moral high-ground justifies him lying. The end justifies the means. This is a common approach of the alarmists, as the many quotes provided show.

    How about all those other quotes Griff ………. or are you cherry-picking again ?

    “The data doesn’t matter. We’re not basing our recommendations
    on the data. We’re basing them on the climate models.”
    - Prof. Chris Folland,
    Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research

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  50. mikenmild (11,742 comments) says:

    Griff
    Nice piece of quote mining from Kea there. Or did he just believe the mined quote and paste it here?

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  51. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    As I just placed the whole quote up and highlighted his last words
    Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest. I hope that means being both.

    It shows what you are trying to do

    Of course the denial nut bars quite often lie even if they know its a lie they keep repeating it
    Like wat wats No warming for sixteen years:lol:

    As to the data: lists of temperatures dont mean much to a lay person
    projections into the future make far more sense
    of course you dont like climate models
    you would much prefer chicken entrails or some other supernatural means of divining the future :lol:

    MM as is often the case with the climate denial nutters they link from their nut bar websites uncritically
    many times a simple google will dispel their lies or omissions
    I have tried to teach them how to look critically at what they read on the web. It just does not work when you live in conspiwhacky land :lol:

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  52. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    I have tried to teach them how to look critically at what they read on the web.

    This from the guy who quotes wikipedia. Your incessant, and poorly executed ad hominem’s just show you up as not particularly well equiped to deal with complex issues.

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  53. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    mikenmild/Griff/various doomsday cultists, ok, how about all these quotes ?

    http://www.green-agenda.com/index.html

    You keep pretending they will go away, but they will not :)

    The game is up guys. The US, China, India are refusing to play-along. A few socialists in NZ & other privileged Western countries, are not going to change the world.

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  54. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    “True or not who cares” – griff, 2012

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  55. Manolo (14,065 comments) says:

    Has too much electric puha fried Griff’s brains? Is he the new Phil Ure?

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  56. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    No KK my ad hommes are purely designed to amuse me. At times I have to go do some work because my side hurt so much laughing at your pathetic attempts at reasoning. :lol: and the simple reason that smileys annoy red and some others. :twisted:

    As to the collapse of political will to resolve the issue of climate change that does not do anything bit expose the fact that we better prepare for a radically altered future climate. trying to hide this fact will have far more repercussions than limiting carbon would have.

    Record heat aussie
    record storm usa
    drought near record and expected to continue into this year usa
    record wet England
    record ice melt arctic
    record global temperature for an el nino year

    :lol: burn baby burn make the nutbars look stupid

    gee the climate might just be changing
    what will happen in the next thirty years?

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  57. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Griff, yes the climate is “changing”. That is what climate does. All systems normal.

    There is no scientific basis to assume climate will suit our current (human) way of life. There is no scientific basis to assume that a particular point in time represents the “right” climatic conditions. That sort of thinking is what I would expect from religious folk, which you claim not to be !

    Humans have existed for a tiny tiny part of the earths history. Most of that history had a very different climate, to now, and it is reasonable to assume that the future will continue that trend. When you consider climate, you should think in terms of tens-of-thousands of years, at least. Comparing today, with a few years back, is statistically worthless.

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  58. KiwiGreg (3,259 comments) says:

    “burn baby burn make the nutbars look stupid”

    This religion even has its own prayers.

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  59. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    fallback position for a denial nutbar
    when all else fails and you are losing the argument start saying its just natural variation
    obscure the impacts by pointing out that the climate changed before
    once upon a time the world was a molten rock
    by extending your attempt at logic to its conclusion if the earth returned to that state it would not matter
    the climate as you well know has been stable for the last two thousand years
    we have evidence for civilizations that died out due to minor changes in climate
    the changes we are facing will dwarf the known changes since humanity worked out how to farm and build city’s

    Any Minuit the nut bars will cry the medieval warm period :lol:
    and try to prove that temperature spread over four century’s and most the globe was happening at the same time
    ignoring that they did not.

    There was no global period warmer around the globe than today as the hockey stick demonstrates

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  60. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    KiwiGreg, they forget their own “teachings”. This is about “global” warming. People are freezing to death in India as we speak. Europe has had a series of freezing harsh winters, with this set to be another.

    Griff will try and talk about a few isolated weather events from around the world. It is a red herring.

    The AGW supporters have gone to great lengths to tell us weather is NOT climate. Griff seems not to understand his own faith based belief system.

    This from Griffs own prophets of doom:

    http://thesciencebit.net/2012/05/01/one-more-time-with-feeling-weather-is-not-climate/

    http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/climatechange/31802.aspx

    http://www.eo.ucar.edu/basics/

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  61. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    http://www.wmo.int/pages/mediacentre/news/index_en.html#widespreadaustralia
    Large parts of central and southern Australia are currently under the influence of a persistent and widespread heat wave event, leading to a number of new temperature maximums. The Bureau of Meteorology expects further significant records to be set. The heat wave, which is pushing the limits of previous temperature extremes, has required an adjustment of the scale used to represent forecast temperatures with new colours representing 50-52°C and 52-54°C.

    According to a Special Climate Statement issued by the Bureau of Meteorology, the current heat wave extends a four month spell of record hot conditions affecting Australia. These hot conditions have been exacerbated by very dry conditions affecting much of Australia since mid 2012 and a delayed start to a weak Australian monsoon.

    For September to December, the average Australian maximum temperature was the highest on record with a national anomaly of +1.61 °C, slightly ahead of the previous record of 1.60 °C set in 2002. The start of the current heat wave event traces back to late December 2012, and all states and territories have seen unusually hot temperatures with many site records approached or exceeded across southern and central Australia.

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  62. Redbaiter (9,609 comments) says:

    Watermelons are all liars-

    “According to TMZ, a new lawsuit claims Paul Watson lied about the fate of his ship, telling media that it sank after a run in with Japanese whalers. The ship’s owner Ady Gil alleges Watson actually ordered for the ship to be sunk in order to create publicity.”

    http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2013/01/08/whale-wars-star-sued-for-5-million-by-ady-gil-ship-owner-report-says/?intcmp=features

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  63. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    Griff, natural variation causes climate change. Otherwise what could have caused the Queensland town of Cloncurry to record 53.1 °C (127.5 °F) , in the shade, on 16 January 1889?

    BTW, I see Al Gore sold his TV station to the emir of Qatar. Big oil doesn’t get much bigger than that.

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  64. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    we have evidence for civilizations that died out due to minor changes in climate

    YES YES YES finally you got it ! :)

    Ask yourself HOW the climate changed back then Griff?

    1. Big Oil (nope)
    2. Mans impact (nope)
    3. Capitialism (nope)

    Yet it still changed. In fact, if climate did not change, we would not be here. That is also the logical conclusion of what you posted at 12:24pm

    Please explain HOW the climate changed so much, that civilisations were wiped out, before the industrial age ?

    I bet you can’t

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  65. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    There must be a point when record temperatures and the effects of climate change are acknowledged
    that time is now

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  66. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    :lol:
    one fucken town sets a record so what right now
    this time the entire continent has smashed the records five days in a row just a little change in scale there right now :lol:

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  67. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Please explain HOW the climate changed so much, that civilisations were wiped out, before the industrial age ?

    I bet you can’t

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  68. kowtow (8,774 comments) says:

    It’s laughable that politicians ,commentators,world bodies etc piffle on about the end of the world through AGW ,and divert billions towards it,stiffling real economies when the real end of the world has been brought about by politicians throwing away tax payer’s money on utopian welfare.

    We’re stoney broke and pollies cry about “equality”,homo marriage,climate change,diversity,human rights,overseas aid etc

    It’s all a distraction and it’s going to get really messy.

    http://www.moneyweek.com/endofbritain

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  69. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    kowtow, do you know how entire civilisations were wiped out by “climate change” before the industrial age ? (Griffs own claim)

    Griff seems to have gone all quiet… ;)

    Can you help ?

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  70. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    >
    Kea (1,456) Says:

    January 9th, 2013 at 12:39 pm
    Please explain HOW the climate changed so much, that civilisations were wiped out, before the industrial age ?

    I bet you can’t

    Nice.

    Camp fire perhaps, setting tar pits on fire for a bit of warmth
    Heavy industrial manufacturing of spears.
    The barter system creating uncontrollable corporate greed

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  71. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    “the entire continent has smashed the records five days in a row” – is this meant to be ‘all-time’ records? Or just in the last 50 years or something. 1889 is still the record holder, so I’m guessing these new records are not ‘all-time’ records.

    More inconvenient facts brought to you by the denialist nutbar network, funded by exon mobil shell texaco

    :) :) :)

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  72. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Thanks Polly. So far that is the best (only) explanation I have.

    It seems that the climate was perfect (for mankind) and completely static (in a way suitable for manking) until mankind showed up and ruined the climate (suitable for mankind).

    Now I am begining to see how “climate science” works. Griff was right, it is complicated …….. lol ;)

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  73. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    Griff (3,794) Says:

    There was no global period warmer around the globe than today as the hockey stick demonstrates

    Interglacials you cretin.

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  74. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Please explain how past changes have anything to do with the present situation.

    The subject at hand is: Are our actions in releasing tens of millions of years of accumulated carbon into the atmosphere in a few decades going to impact on the future climate of this rock.

    This has never happened on our rock Before

    Hence the cause of historic minor anomaly’s in regional climate are not the scope of this discussion they are just a distraction

    As I have told you before go goggle you own science.

    Just learn to discern between a site usually unidentified as to its funding and motivation that list vast screeds of so called proof that On close inspection is not as represented honestly or non existent.
    Often the proofs contradict each other or are mutually exclusive and all official sources of information are degraded as being corrupt. They mirror the Alt med sites in this regard preying on the stupidity of the gullible and predisposed.

    Hence the :lol:

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  75. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Sonny Blount
    Thank you The poor people that can not follow the line of a discussion will benefit from you help fill correction

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  76. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    Griff, what was happening in 1972 when the previous record was set?

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  77. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Again
    right now

    One town is not the continent

    Aussie is cooking not just one day at some abo backwater in the middle of nowhere

    The heat wave, which is pushing the limits of previous temperature extremes, has required an adjustment of the scale used to represent forecast temperatures with new colours representing 50-52°C and 52-54°C.

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  78. mikenmild (11,742 comments) says:

    Kea asked Griff to ‘explain HOW the climate changed so much, that civilisations were wiped out, before the industrial age?’
    A very good book on this is Collapse by Jared Diamond, also the author of the very good ‘Guns, Germs and Steel’.

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  79. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    http://www.wmo.int/pages/mediacentre/news/index_en.html#widespreadaustralia

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  80. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    instrumental record of course. not the same thing as highest temperature.

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  81. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    “Again
    right now

    One town is not the continent”

    Why don’t you look up the continent averages for 1889 griff? One town is a reasonable indicator that the areas around it are going to be pretty hot too. What made it so hot in 1889? It sure wasn’t CO2.

    Yes it’s very hot in Australia, but it’s nothing unnatural

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  82. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    … as the hockey stick demonstrates

    The hockey stick is to science what Bernie Madoff is to commerce.

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  83. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Still waiting for an answer Griff…..

    mikenmild “also the author of the very good ‘Guns, Germs and Steel’.”

    It would have been a good book, if he could have put aside his anti white racism. Are you aware he is discredited after being caught deliberately falsifying data and studies?

    The contradiction in Gun Germs and Steel are self evident, as are the lies and misrepresentations.

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  84. mikenmild (11,742 comments) says:

    I’ll take that as Kea agreeing that the book ‘Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed’ is relevant to explaining “HOW the climate changed so much, that civilisations were wiped out, before the industrial age”.

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  85. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    yes KK trot out the usual garbage
    bishop hill is of course the starting point http://bishophill.squarespace.com/ Seems to have a lot of links to links to other echo chamber site with the same sort of tripe
    how many years hes he been bleating about that one data set now dozen?

    published peer reviewed data says hockey stick

    Website that meets my above criteria to kea claims other wise :lol:

    I go with science not nut bars web sites

    As I said the mwp was not consistent across the globe. If you go back a few weeks at wuwt they were trumpeting that the temperature of the mwp was the same as the industrial age. One of you nutbars even posted it on here :lol:
    guess when that was? try 1800 to 1920 lots warmer since then

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  86. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Just learn to discern between a site usually unidentified as to its funding

    Who funds the sites you reference Griff ?

    We all know who. The AGW industry and there is BIG money in it.

    Please explain HOW the climate changed so much, that civilisations were wiped out, before the industrial age ?

    I bet you can’t

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  87. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Why would I kea you are changing the subject from human caused global climate change to regional climate change in the historical context
    Not my interested and I fail to see how historical regional change due to deserve processes impacts on present global change due to human causes except that it gives us a deeper understanding of climate process. As you deny climate science any attempt would result in pointless sidetracking from the issue at hand.

    so a simple cut and past http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-change-little-ice-age-medieval-warm-period.htm

    A common skeptic argument is that climate has changed naturally in the past, long before SUVs and coal-fired power plants, so therefore humans cannot be causing global warming now. Interestingly, the peer-reviewed research into past climate change comes to the opposite conclusion. To understand this, first you have to ask why climate has changed in the past. It doesn’t happen by magic. Climate changes when it’s forced to change. When our planet suffers an energy imbalance and gains or loses heat, global temperature changes.

    There are a number of different forces which can influence the Earth’s climate. When the sun gets brighter, the planet receives more energy and warms. When volcanoes erupt, they emit particles into the atmosphere which reflect sunlight, and the planet cools. When there are more greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the planet warms. These effects are referred to as external forcings because by changing the planet’s energy balance, they force climate to change.

    It is obviously true that past climate change was caused by natural forcings. However, to argue that this means we can’t cause climate change is like arguing that humans can’t start bushfires because in the past they’ve happened naturally. Greenhouse gas increases have caused climate change many times in Earth’s history, and we are now adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere at a increasingly rapid rate.

    Looking at the past gives us insight into how our climate responds to external forcings. Using ice cores, for instance, we can work out the degree of past temperature change, the level of solar activity, and the amount of greenhouse gases and volcanic dust in the atmosphere. From this, we can determine how temperature has changed due to past energy imbalances. What we have found, looking at many different periods and timescales in Earth’s history, is that when the Earth gains heat, positive feedbacks amplify the warming. This is why we’ve experienced such dramatic changes in temperature in the past. Our climate is highly sensitive to changes in heat. We can even quantify this: when you include positive feedbacks, a doubling of CO2 causes a warming of around 3°C.

    What does that mean for today? Rising greenhouse gas levels are an external forcing, which has caused climate changes many times in Earth’s history. They’re causing an energy imbalance and the planet is building up heat. From Earth’s history, we know that positive feedbacks will amplify the greenhouse warming. So past climate change doesn’t tell us that humans can’t influence climate; on the contrary, it tells us that climate is highly sensitive to the greenhouse warming we’re now causing.

    Of course you nut bars will now blete that I broke my own rules check his home page for an honest disclaimer and feel free to dispute his links to peer reviewed science as apposed to echo chamber rubbish

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  88. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    Australia may be hot, but that isn’t consistent across the globe – ergo so fucking what?

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  89. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    Griff,

    You don’t even understand what you are cut and pasting.

    What we have found, looking at many different periods and timescales in Earth’s history, is that when the Earth gains heat, positive feedbacks amplify the warming.

    Do you notice any glaring problems with this bit right here?

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  90. mikenmild (11,742 comments) says:

    Of course, if we want to talk about natural climate change, it should be pointed out that natural changes in climate have sufficed to polish off many a civilisation. Hopefully human adaptability will surmount the present challenge.

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  91. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    I often wonder what motivates AGW alarmists.

    For many it is concerns over social justice and environment. For a few, it is power and control through socialism. And for most, it is wanting to do the “right thing”. This last group makes up the largest group. They are essentially lazy or disinterested and their apathy is played upon by the other groups. Their belief in AGW is based on ignorance. Those with other motives know this and that is why they are so frantic in their attempts to shut down any voice of oppostion.

    Griff is a poster boy for the long term effects of cannabis use. He has become paranoid and prone to unsound reasoning. He thinks there is some big event looming that will address his vague concerns about humanity generally. His moods alternate between abusive, when pressured, to moments of clarity and insight when more stonned relaxed. I am sure he means well.

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  92. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Of course, if we want to talk about natural climate change, it should be pointed out that natural changes in climate have sufficed to polish off many a civilisation. Hopefully human adaptability will surmount the present challenge.

    Shit mikey, what suddenly made you so willing to accept the world as it trully is ? Have you turned-the-corner ? ;)

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  93. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Australasia is experiencing unusual and unprecedented weather that is causing catastrophic consequences for its residents.
    As is England they are drowning not cooking drowning has a somewhat catastrophic effect on those involved
    Recently The usa had a rather inconvenient weather episode again catastrophic for those involved. the arctic almost melted this year all part of a pattern.

    Around forty years ago a group of scientists started looking into an interesting theory developed in the previous century
    and refined in the time since This theory states that our atmosphere contains greenhouse gases that keep it warmer than it should be. These gentleman realized that our carbon based economy was changing the composition of these gasses in the atmosphere that allows life to inhabit this rock. They project that the globe will continue to warm for the foreseeable future if we continue to add carbon to its atmosphere.

    Weather extremes are increasing in frequency and cost. It is imposable to correlate one event to global warming. however there is growing evidence with many events happening. Record warmth in Aussie is not isolated its the continuation of a pattern of climate change that is becoming more and more apparent as we warm the globe.

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  94. mikenmild (11,742 comments) says:

    Exactly Kea, you are nearly there. The difference about the way the climate is changing today is the speed and the anthropogenic component of the change.

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  95. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    mikey, I do not dispute climate change or the fact that mans activities contribute to that change.

    What I dispute is the claim that catastrophic cataclysmic climate chaos will occur, entirely due to mans activities alone.

    Simple really.

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  96. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    mikenmild (6,375) Says:
    January 9th, 2013 at 2:26 pm
    The difference about the way the climate is changing today is the speed

    How do you know that?

    What was the fastest 2 decade temperature gain leading into an interglacial?

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  97. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    Absent of climate change there would be dozens of instrumental temperature records every year.

    It is simple statistics, there are only a hundred or so years in the temperature records and there are thousands of temperature records referred to.

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  98. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Don’t forget the complexity size and inertia of our form of civilization MM

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  99. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    What we have found, looking at many different periods and timescales in Earth’s history, is that when the Earth gains heat, positive feedbacks amplify the warming.

    Do you notice any glaring problems with this bit right here?

    Seeing as you don’t know the answer Griff I will help you out.

    If this was all there was to it, then the Earth would have cooked long ago.

    There has never been runaway warming before, even with all this ‘positive feedbacks’ observed. Because nature always ends up providing far greater negative feedbacks than the positive forcings can provide.

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  100. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Kea is back peddling now :lol:
    the problem with that attitude is the experts disagree with you kea
    That is where all the money is going trying to find out what is going to happen

    Your language is outside of any that I have used:”catastrophic cataclysmic climate chaos”. Ask someone who is watching their house burn down in Aussie about that.
    Early days kea far more catastrophic cataclysmic climate chaos to come.

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  101. Ryan Sproull (7,285 comments) says:

    There has never been runaway warming before, even with all this ‘positive feedbacks’ observed. Because nature always ends up providing far greater negative feedbacks than the positive forcings can provide.

    I think the important thing to remember is that nature does not give a shit about humans.

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  102. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    “runaway warming”
    Who said that sonny? having flights of fancy like kea are we
    if our present 1 degree or so causes aussie to burn or the crop in the Midwest to fail what will 4+ degrees do

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  103. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    No back peddling from me Griffy. It has long been my position, regardless of the charactertures you may have drawn of my views.

    Bush fires are a seasonal part of the Australian eco system Griff.

    So relax, take a deep toke breath and stop all that worry. Every thing will be ok. The world is not ending any time soon.

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  104. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    Griff (3,804) Says:
    January 9th, 2013 at 2:45 pm
    “runaway warming”
    Who said that sonny? having flights of fancy like kea are we
    if our present 1 degree or so causes aussie to burn or the crop in the Midwest to fail what will 4+ degrees do

    Ask a paleantologist Griff.

    It was 4 degrees warmer in the Eemian. Virtually every species on earth today evolved and prospered in those conditions.

    As for humans. Very few of us live where we did 50 years ago or even in buildings 50 years old. I suspect not many of us will in another 50 years wither.

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  105. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    your position alternates between conspiwhacky nutjob rubbish and outright denial of the known consequence
    So no, you are misrepresenting your position because of your lack of cognitive argument to back your denial of science

    Record temperature so high that they need to rewrite the graphs to accommodate them are not normal that you focus on wild fires else shows your lack of ability to face the reality

    As to your repeated statement: the world not end soon: again you distract with made up dribble to minimize your lack of argument
    gaia theory says so what the earth continues,

    Our civilization will be severely stressed perhaps to breaking point in the next fifty years

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  106. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    I don’t see anything unusual about bush fires in Australia. They’ve been happening for millions of years
    http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/fire-and-other-emergencies/major-bushfires-in-victoria

    Time for change of panties griff.

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  107. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Yes sonny back when the dinosaur ruled the earth the antarctic was a tropical swamp and middle latitudes where uninhabitable desert with no life.Where will we put everyone ?

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  108. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    “Record temperature so high that they need to rewrite the graphs to accommodate them”

    Show me a graph from 1889 and we can play spot the difference :) :) :)

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  109. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    Our civilization will be severely stressed perhaps to breaking point in the next fifty years

    why?

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  110. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Griff said: “that you focus on wild fires else shows your lack of ability to face the reality”

    Griff said: “if our present 1 degree or so causes aussie to burn ”

    Therefore: Griff is stonned and forgetting his own bs.

    Griff, you have been told. Your faith chants the following mantra “Weather is NOT climate”. But I will play along :)

    19 hours ago…Cold wave continues to throw life out of gear in North India with the minimum temperature dipping below to freezing point at some places in northern India like in Narnaul (Haryana) where the mercury plunging three degrees below freezing point….However, death toll due to severe cold in the state has reached 170 as 15 more people lost their lives during past 24 hours.

    Owing to the unrelenting cold weather, the government has ordered closure of all schools till Jan 12, after which a call would be taken again, Basudev Yadav, director (Primary Education) said.

    Rescue helicopters evacuated dozens of people from snow-blocked villages in Serbia and Bosnia and airlifted in emergency food and medicine as a severe cold spell kept eastern Europe in an icy grip.

    The death toll from the cold snap rose to 79 across the region, with emergency crews working overtime as temperatures sank to -32.5C (-26.5F) in some areas.

    Parts of the Black Sea froze near the Romanian coastline and rare snow fell on Croatian islands in the Adriatic Sea

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  111. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Yes
    right now
    aussie has bush fires
    aussie has more bush fires when its hot
    Its very hot at the moment right across aussie
    hotter than has ever been recorded before across the entire continent
    Hence more catastrophic bush fires
    hence evidence for as you nutbars so like to say “catastrophic global warming”

    can you follow that logic or is there mental block in your head that protects you from reality
    I go with the mental block a symptom that I like to refer to as nutjob cognitive dissonance

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  112. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Yes sonny back when the dinosaur ruled the earth the antarctic was a tropical swamp and middle latitudes where uninhabitable desert with no life.Where will we put everyone ?

    So what caused that massive change of climate Griff ? (You can not blame man for that, he did not exist back then.)

    So what caused all these climatic changes you keep referring to ?

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  113. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    catastrophic bush fires

    No Griff, normal and vital bush fires for the Australian eco system. If there were no fires, that system would collapse.

    Nature does not care if you build your house in the bush. The world does not exist for mans benefit . That is religion, not science.

    Are you a relgious man Griff ?

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  114. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    still can nit get out of that loop can we kea making axenuckle weather reports
    coldest temperature since 1969 vrs hottest temperature since science has been around to measure
    not much difference :lol:

    Climate change
    global temperatures rise
    causes distortions in normal weather patterns
    some areas will cool ie the north western states have cooled the rest of the usa has warmed
    The globe on average is warming

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  115. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    Griff (3,808) Says:
    January 9th, 2013 at 3:06 pm
    Yes sonny back when the dinosaur ruled the earth the antarctic was a tropical swamp and middle latitudes where uninhabitable desert with no life.Where will we put everyone ?

    There were no dinosaurs in the Eemian Griff.

    There were humans and spotted owls and fur seals and puppies. But no polar bears, they are a young untried species that evolved recently in Ireland and the Mediterranean.

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  116. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    hottest temperature since science has been around

    You keep repeating this lie.

    The instrumental record is a tiny fraction of the temperature record. There is not a single instrumental average that is among the hottest or coldest in the temperature record.

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  117. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    “hotter than has ever been recorded before across the entire continent” – you keep saying that griff, but I’m waiting for your evidence that it’s hotter than 1889.

    “Hence more catastrophic bush fires” – are you suggesting the bush fires in the late 19th and early 20th centuries were made up? Have you counted them BTW, you know it would be the scientific thing to do before you claim there are more now than then. I think you’re making it up, but you could present some data to prove me wrong. Data includes empirical observations, not models, since you’re confused on the issue.

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  118. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Yes great sonny caught me out what :blush:

    The period when early man migrated out of Africa
    Before the genetic ancestors of western man evolved well before we invented such little things as farming and villages.
    Hunter gatherer nomads with the ability to migrate across continents unhindered by such obstacles as city’s and national boarders. Trekking across a primeval landscape devoid of mans significant and all encompassing modification. Migrating within their changing environment as game and plant life changed around them. Changes happening in a time span of thousands of years

    Not the century or so we are faced with and without the infrastructure we need to survive

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  119. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/comment.html?entrynum=2323
    It’s been a summer like no other in the history of Australia, where a sprawling heat wave of historical proportions is entering its second week. Monday, January 7, was the hottest day in Australian history, averaged over the entire country, according to the Australian Bureau of Meteorology. The high temperature averaged over Australia was 105°F (40.3°C), eclipsing the previous record of 104°F (40.2°C) set on 21 December 1972. Never before in 103 years of record keeping has a heat wave this intense, wide-spread, and long-lasting affected Australia. The nation’s average high temperature exceeded 102°F (39°C) for five consecutive days January 2 – 6, 2013–the first time that has happened since record keeping began in 1910. Monday’s temperatures extended that string by another day, to six. To put this remarkable streak in perspective, the previous record of four consecutive days with a national average high temperature in excess of 102°F (39°C) has occurred once only (1973), and only two other years have had three such days in a row–1972 and 2002 (thanks go to climate blogger Greg Laden for these stats.) Another brutally hot day is in store for Wednesday, as the high pressure region responsible for the heat wave, centered just south of the coast, will bring clear skies and a northerly flow of air over most of the country

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  120. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    “The bushfires of January 13 1939, known as the ‘Black Friday’ fires, were the result of a long drought and a severe, hot, dry summer.”
    http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/fire-and-other-emergencies/major-bushfires-in-victoria/black-friday-1939-summary

    1) There is nothing unprecedented about the current bush fires
    2) The current record average of 40.3 is only just greater than the 1972 average of 40.2? HA! What’s the margin of error?

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  121. Azeraph (607 comments) says:

    I thought that it has now changed to extreme weather events? I spoke with the author of “Deep Water” and he suggests that the safest way to lower temps in regions is metal particulate seeding in the high atmosphere. This seeding has never been tried yet as far as i know and no one knows whether it’s effects will be beneficial or not. I’m of the opinion that we had gone past the tip of the spear 20 years ago and what will come is just damage control.

    What if we are heading back into another microbial stage?

    Stats are useless in this argument as this has to do with a system that is transient.

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  122. Longknives (4,878 comments) says:

    Back to the important stuff (The Cricket) –

    “When Hadlee, Howarth, Wright, Edgar, Crowe (M & J), Chatfield, Cairns, Smith and Bracewell took the field they were more than highly competitive, and with neutral umpires and modern technology, would have been, for a time anyway, the very best.”

    Sorry mate. That was the greatest NZ team ever but not even in their wildest dreams were they as good as the mighty West Indian team of the early-mid 80s-
    Greenidge, Haynes, Richardson, Richards (THE Master Blaster), Lloyd, Dujon, Marshall,Garner,Holding, Walsh etc etc
    Now that was a team….

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  123. Azeraph (607 comments) says:

    Or paint our roofs white.

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  124. Longknives (4,878 comments) says:

    I remember for a brief period a few years ago the NZ media took to calling Brendon McCullum “The Master Blaster”.
    As a huge fan of the legendary Sir IVA Richards even just thinking about this fills me with homicidal rage….

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  125. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    Griff (3,810) Says:
    January 9th, 2013 at 3:52 pm
    Yes great sonny caught me out what :blush:

    The period when early man migrated out of Africa
    Before the genetic ancestors of western man evolved well before we invented such little things as farming and villages.
    Hunter gatherer nomads with the ability to migrate across continents unhindered by such obstacles as city’s and national boarders. Trekking across a primeval landscape devoid of mans significant and all encompassing modification. Migrating within their changing environment as game and plant life changed around them. Changes happening in a time span of thousands of years

    Not the century or so we are faced with and without the infrastructure we need to survive

    What are you talking about?

    Are aliens going to come and remove all our infrastucture? Even then we could rebuild it.

    I can build a new house in 6 weeks.

    What do you think is going to happen to our infrastructure?

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  126. Sonny Blount (1,794 comments) says:

    And unsurprisingly, we realise that corals have been through all this before:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/science/8158820/Coral-capable-of-coping-with-climate-change

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  127. Paulus (2,664 comments) says:

    Australia has lived by Fire for a few million years, so prove otherwise.

    Blimey, it has only had its bicentenary recently – ask the Aborigines about their understanding of fire history.
    It goes with the place.

    What has to asked is why in Tasmanian law says that people cannot clear the local forestation around their properties, because it disturbes the ecosystem.

    Guess who – the Greeny politicians in that state.

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  128. Azeraph (607 comments) says:

    Has anyone ever dived in a algae bloom? I couldn’t see beyond 500 cm in front of me, it’s what they call zero vis except i was one meter down, 1 o’clock in the afternoon on a lovely hot summers day. At 30 i didn’t bother carrying on and came back up.

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  129. mikenmild (11,742 comments) says:

    I’m just wondering which XI was the best that NZ actually fielded in that era.

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  130. Longknives (4,878 comments) says:

    Stand by Mikenmild- Am ploughing through Cricinfo as we speak…..

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  131. Longknives (4,878 comments) says:

    I’m going to throw this team into the mix first up-

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/australia/engine/match/63415.html

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  132. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Are aliens going to come and remove all our infrastructure?

    shit and they say I am drug fucked

    Ever thought what you would do with say pine forests if it was to warm for them. I suppose you could dig them up and move them. Then their is the nice little man made things like city’s and highways
    Google something interesting say the impact of global warming on sea level.
    Then consider how well the yanks got on in new york last month with submarine ways. :lol: Turned out to be not a good idea to have a city built close to the water level cause it happens to be rising.
    Then consider for instance how much of our civilization is less than say 2m above sea level where are we going to and put the people displace? how are we going to protect infrastructure from rising sea levels or the cost to rebuild else where
    how our we going to grow food when vast areas of formally productive land is no longer able to support agriculture?
    Yes other areas will open up for agriculture In the Canada and Siberia great for them not so great if you expect the usa grain belt or most of Africa to be able to sustain the masses in the country’s that rely on them for food.

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  133. mikenmild (11,742 comments) says:

    Yes, Longknives but Vaughan Brown?

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  134. mikenmild (11,742 comments) says:

    How about the team that won that 1985 decider in Perth:
    JG Wright
    BA Edgar
    JF Reid
    MD Crowe
    JV Coney
    JJ Crowe
    RJ Hadlee
    IDS Smith
    JG Bracewell
    BL Cairns
    EJ Chatfield

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  135. Longknives (4,878 comments) says:

    Vaughan Brown was an outstanding spin bowler! His Test bowling average of 176 doesn’t do him justice…

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  136. Longknives (4,878 comments) says:

    Well done- Hard to top that line-up (Apart from ‘Chopper’ Crowe of course…)

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  137. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    how our we going to grow food when vast areas of formally productive land is no longer able to support agriculture?

    Fishing.

    Should be plenty of fish feeding over that newly created sea bed. :)

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  138. MT_Tinman (3,257 comments) says:

    Longknives (2,043) Says:
    January 9th, 2013 at 4:56 pm
    Vaughan Brown was an outstanding spin bowler! His Test bowling average of 176 doesn’t do him justice…

    Beautiful to watch left hand batsman but a fairly average offspinner.

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  139. Manolo (14,065 comments) says:

    Our civilization will be severely stressed perhaps to breaking point in the next fifty years

    But not as much as your brain due to excessive pot smoking. Once a Greenie, always a Luddite.

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  140. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    How so manululu

    Does that mean that when I built my own hybrid wind solo generation plant I used chicken entrails to divine the amperage and usage to work out the correct capacity of both my storage and generation networks

    Or is it that you can not cope with things and ideas outside of your limited world view.

    A Luddite implies that I do not embrace modern technology
    green implies in modern kb parlance that I vote for the so called “green party”

    Nether of these accusations are true or based on reality

    I like trying to change the stupidity quotient of kb around climate change because unfortunate it is happening. the other mainstream blog on the right is verging on conservonuttery on this and other subjects.

    I have no hope for or indeed do I support the efforts of the political sphere to mitigate the future effects as they both penalize the modern world and destroy the first worlds economy.

    We must plan for a future not very far off were the world will be a vastly less hospitable place for our civilization. Pretending that this is not going to happen will not help us Allowing the left to dominate the climate debate due to propaganda from the carbon industry’s flooding the right is not going to help our future.

    If I was a causal visitor to political blogs and was aware of climate change it would put me of voting for the right due to uncontested climate denial rubbish being repeatedly posted as happens if it is not challenged

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  141. Colville (2,300 comments) says:

    Best way to prepare for the future is to have shit loads of dosh and a gun or five :-)

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  142. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    16 years with no warming, and now some idiots are trying to blame this non-warming for a hot spell in parts of Australia.

    Brilliant.

    The world record for the longest sequence of days above 100°Fahrenheit (or 37.8° on the Celsius scale) is held by Marble Bar in the inland Pilbara district of Western Australia. The temperature, measured under standard exposure conditions, reached or exceeded the century mark every day from 31 October 1923 to 7 April 1924, a total of 160 days.

    http://www.bom.gov.au/lam/climate/levelthree/c20thc/temp1.htm

    Er?

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  143. Colville (2,300 comments) says:

    Longknives…didnt that great WI team lose to Wellington? I as a kid watched a game at the Hutt Rec .. a 3 or 4 dayer?

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  144. Longknives (4,878 comments) says:

    True Colville. The Evan Gray captained early 80s Wellington were probably better than the West Indies…
    (No sports team from outside New Zealand can ever be any good…I am foolish for suggesting otherwise)

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  145. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    We must plan for a future not very far off were the world will be a vastly less hospitable place for our civilization.

    Like the worlds deserts and frozen waste lands, where people have lived for centuries ? You need to get some different weed Griff, that stuff is giving you a downer.

    Have you ever thought you may be wrong about AGW ? I know you focus on the “science” but there is a lot to suggest there is more than science at play here. You should focus on the human factors as your “climate scientists” are human too. Your assumption seems to be that scientists rise above politics and personal gain. That is the ideal, but scientists have often fallen well short of that ideal.

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  146. Longknives (4,878 comments) says:

    Speaking of sports- Did ESPN really need to apologise for this??

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/8159086/ESPN-apology-over-sexist-comments

    I have watched that clip several times and am yet to find any ‘sexist’ comments..

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  147. Colville (2,300 comments) says:

    Longknives, I have watched I think 2 games of cricket in my life. One when I was maybe 14 and the other last year I think as a guest of the bwank. I enjoyed the first for reasons that wont be mentioned here and the second coz there was free beer, good people to talk shit with and a bus home :-)

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  148. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    How about the team that won that 1985 decider in Perth:
    JG Wright
    BA Edgar
    JF Reid
    MD Crowe
    JV Coney
    JJ Crowe
    RJ Hadlee
    IDS Smith
    JG Bracewell
    BL Cairns
    EJ Chatfield

    @mikey,

    Now there’s another thing we can agree on!!

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  149. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    Lots of low temperature records being broken in the US right now:

    http://mapcenter.hamweather.com/records/7day/us.html?c=mintemp,snow

    By definition, these have just as much relevence as any transient higher temperatures in Australia.

    It is blatent cherry-picking to post about one but not the other. Now, why would anyone cherry-pick?

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  150. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    For years, the Elites of the West have cranked up the myth of Man Made Global Warming as a means first and foremost to control the lives and behaviors of their populations…The US alone spends $7 billion each year on warming “studies”, which is, in truth, nothing but a huge money laundering operation, as no real science is conducted and vapid alarmist reports the only product generated.

    http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/04-01-2013/123380-global_warming-0/

    What a strange world we live in when Pravda is more honest than the Western state media such as the BBC.

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  151. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    wat, I am thinking of all those who froze to death in India today.

    Hard to believe that some folk want to tax the Indians, so they can make it colder. (they call it “climate science”)

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  152. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    Kea, for you…

    Biting cold brings spectre of Global Warming closer

    http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-01-08/news/36216487_1_climate-change-cold-waves-extreme-weather

    You couldn’t make it up could you.

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  153. wat dabney (3,809 comments) says:

    Speaking of corrupted state broadcasters, even the global-warming cheerleaders at the BBC are being forced to admit some uncomfortable truths:

    The new [Met Office] projection, if correct, would mean there will have been little additional warming for two decades despite rising greenhouse gases.

    It’s bound to raise questions about the robustness and reliability of computer simulations that governments around the world are using in order to determine policies aimed at combating global warming.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulhudson/2013/01/met-office-scale-back-global-w.shtml

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  154. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    You couldn’t make it up could you.

    They did “make it up”.

    Here are some more things blamed on AGW. Just click any link.

    http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm

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  155. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Throw in Bevan Congdon into the 85 team ahead of Crowe J, sound batsman valued his wicket and he could bowl

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  156. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    oh look wat wat is still trying the same piece of un linked and un referenced bullshit
    nutter to the last
    Thinks that made up stories in the daily mail should be the source of science for all

    Come on wat wat would you like a hand to research your piece of spin?
    you know were it comes from and how true it is
    I will give you a glue David Rose the receiver of the golden horse shoe for last year
    for his artificial on the mail were he made up a report that does not exist then fabricated a story around cherry picked data
    of course sixteen years is not quite true then again nether is no warming.

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  157. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    yes wat wat why cherry pick indeed
    rather than posting local weather extremes why not post how the climate is in the usa
    http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/
    2012 marked the warmest year on record for the contiguous United States with the year consisting of a record warm spring, second warmest summer, fourth warmest winter and a warmer-than-average autumn. The average temperature for 2012 was 55.3°F, 3.2°F above the 20th century average, and 1.0°F above 1998, the previous warmest year.

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  158. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    David Rose the receiver of the golden horse shoe for last year
    for his artificial on the mail

    Funny, you said nothing when mikenmild referenced Jared Diamond.

    Griff, stop the lies., admit your wrong and go over to the Bain thread.

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  159. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    No Moslems involved in this story of aborted females, dead infants, and kidnapped women trafficked to be raped by men in areas where there is a shortage of women.

    The Delhi rape story just the tip of a very ugly story.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20938125

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  160. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Climate Madness

    Brothel owners in Bulgaria are blaming global warming for staff shortages.

    They claim their best girls are working in ski resorts because a lack of snow has forced tourists to seek other pleasures.

    Al Qaeda and Taliban Being Helped By Global Warming

    Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/10/10/abc-al-qaeda-taliban-being-helped-global-warming#ixzz2HSIuoRa9

    Melting ice could cause gravity shift
    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/melting-ice-could-cause-gravity-shift-1685201.html

    the sun now appears to set many kilometres off its usual point on the horizon, and the stars are no longer where they should be. [sic] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts/film/new-documentary-recounts-bizarre-climate-changes-seen-by-inuit-elders/article1215305/

    And climate liars call us sane folk nutters.

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  161. SPC (5,775 comments) says:

    kea, wat – climate change is a consequence of global warming – such as a warmer Arctic resulting in some weather patters (its cold weather moving south into Europe, Eurasia and Asia and Canada/Northern USA). This combined with general warming means more extreme conditions.

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  162. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Please point to one lie I have made today kea share the lie with us all

    You are the one that is trying to paint the entire scientific establishment as corrupt or deceived along with most of the governments including ours
    You dismiss the possible consequences of the experiment we are undertaking on the atmosphere of this planet with out truly evaluating the known impacts of this experiment
    Refusing to except the scientific consensus around global warming and its long term impact on this planet with no reason except you own blind faith in known rubbish blogsites

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  163. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    SPC, I get that. You should tell Griff, who keeps banging on about it being warm in Aussie for a few days.

    Personally, I believe in climate change and have said so clearly any number of times.

    Griff, please explain this “experiment we are undertaking on the atmosphere” because I have not heard of it.

    (Only scientific references to the experiment, with all the usual details and controls, thanks :) )

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  164. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Refusing to except[sic] the scientific consensus around global warming and its long term impact.”

    There isn’t any scientific consensus on global warming and its long term impact.

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  165. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    UglyTruth, have you heard of this “experiment we are undertaking on the atmosphere” ?

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  166. big bruv (14,156 comments) says:

    Longknives

    I hate to be the one to correct you but I think you will find that Evan Gray did not captain the Wellington team of the early 80’s (perhaps apart from the odd game). That role was first filled by Robert Vance and then Ervin McSweeney.

    Come to think of it, while others have correctly said that while the team of the 80’s (even allowing for rose tinted glasses) still lost a lot of games they were at least competitive it has got me thinking of that golden era in NZ cricket.
    How many players from that era who never played for NZ, or at best played just a few games would walk into the current NZ team.

    I can think of players like Ross Ormiston, Robert Vance, Ian Rutherford, Evan Gray, Ervin McSweeney, Gary Robertson, Derek Stirling and the late ADG Roberts who would be automatic selections had they played in this era.

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  167. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    a few spurt reality slip flight of fantasy days
    Do you ever try reality
    what do you smoke to be so divorced from the world around you

    For September to December, the average Australian maximum temperature was the highest on record with a national anomaly of +1.61 °C, slightly ahead of the previous record of 1.60 °C set in 2002. The start of the current heat wave event traces back to late December 2012, and all states and territories have seen unusually hot temperatures with many site records approached or exceeded across southern and central Australia.
    Large parts of central and southern Australia are currently under the influence of a persistent and widespread heat wave event, leading to a number of new temperature maximums. The Bureau of Meteorology expects further significant records to be set. The heat wave, which is pushing the limits of previous temperature extremes, has required an adjustment of the scale used to represent forecast temperatures with new colours representing 50-52°C and 52-54°C.

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  168. Steve (North Shore) (4,589 comments) says:

    Wow what a day it has been. I arrived here at 5.30pm after work and what a load of bollocks on General Debate.
    When is the Govt going to force people to take their medication?

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  169. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    The heat wave, which is pushing the limits of previous temperature extremes, has required an adjustment of the scale used to represent forecast temperatures with new colours representing 50-52°C and 52-54°C.

    Griff, so the Bureau of Meteorology did not know enough to set up their “computer models” to accurately record data ?

    Typical of weather men climate scientists. Maybe I should just post them a thermometer.

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  170. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    I can think of players like Ross Ormiston, Robert Vance, Ian Rutherford, Evan Gray, Ervin McSweeney, Gary Robertson, Derek Stirling and the late ADG Roberts who would be automatic selections had they played in this era.

    Pausing a moment to adjust the red-and-black eyepatch, I wouldn’t be a Cantabury boy if I didn’t bring up Paul McEwan…

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  171. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    Or even a Canterbury boy…

    Where has that edit function gone?

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  172. Steve (North Shore) (4,589 comments) says:

    It is hot, it is summer, what did you morons expect? Off on a tangent about AGW and the change of climate.
    Sad sad bitching about who is correct and who is not. How about you all get back to WORK!!!!

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  173. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Steve, head on over to the Bain thread and say Hi to your kin :)

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  174. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Kea,

    It’s pretty vague. It could possibly refer to geoengineering, but given the context I’d say it’s referring to activity which produces CO2.

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  175. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    yes ugly would you like to list the dissenting scientific organizations
    how about the national scientific bodies

    the royal society uk

    The Society has worked on the issue of climate change for many years to further the understanding of this issue. These activities have been informed by decades of publicly available, peer-reviewed studies by thousands of scientists across a wide range of disciplines. Climate science, like any other scientific discipline, develops through vigorous debates between experts, but there is an overwhelming consensus regarding its fundamentals. Climate science has a firm basis in physics and is supported by a wealth of evidence from real world observations

    The National Academy of Sciences

    These reports show that the state of climate change science is strong,” said Ralph J. Cicerone, President of the National Academy of Sciences. The study emphasizes that our current understanding of human-induced climate change is supported by many independent lines of evidence that have weathered intense debate and serious exploration of alternative explanations.

    The study underscores that, more than ever, we have credible and convincing evidence that human activities are driving our changing climate. “Climate change is occurring, is caused largely by human activities, and poses significant risks for – and in many cases is already affecting – a broad range of human and natural systems,” the report says. Further delay in addressing these risks will only make climate change impacts more severe and the costs of action more expensive.

    The urgency is reflected by impacts beginning to happen in our own backyards – more heat waves across the Midwest; wildfires in California and other western states; sea-level rise encroaching on the eastern seaboard. Effective national strategies to limit the causes and adapt to certain unavoidable changes to our climate are urgent. Scientific uncertainty is no longer an excuse to delay action. The case for action is clear and we must find the political will to reduce our nation’s greenhouse emissions and adapt to unavoidable changes already in motion.

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  176. nasska (11,808 comments) says:

    Out shopping in Porirua today, a man’s toddler son started having a tantrum and threw his red toy car out of his push chair.

    By the time the father picked it up, it was repainted blue and the VIN had been doctored.

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  177. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    It is hot, it is summer

    You nutty denialist. Climate scientists have proven (to Griff) that the Sun has no effect on the Earths climate or temperature.

    You are clearly a shill for BIG OIL.

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  178. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Steve (North Shore) (3,362) Says:
    January 9th, 2013 at 7:48 pm
    Wow what a day it has been. I arrived here at 5.30pm after work and what a load of bollocks on General Debate.
    When is the Govt going to force people to take their medication?

    __________________________________________

    They came up with a wonderful scheme, they’re hoping if they charge more for prescriptions, more people will take them!
    Such are the thoughts of an everyday politician!

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  179. big bruv (14,156 comments) says:

    F E Smith.

    I did think of him but to be honest the way he was well and truly worked over by Lillee and Pascoe in 81 I am not sure he would be that much better than the guys we have playing now.

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  180. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Hay Griff !!!!

    What about the “experiment” you referred to ?

    It must be “secret knowledge” because there is no reference to it on Google. Do you think the Illuminati and Bilderburg Group are involved ? Is it to do with HAARP and Chemtrails Griff?

    We would all appreciate a toke on your joint any details you have about the “experiment”.

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  181. Viking2 (11,568 comments) says:

    Well its like this.

    All day ranting about the temperature in aussie, the fires it causes and all that.
    There is a reason why Abo’s are the colour they are. Yep bushfires.
    That’s what happens to meat on a barbie. Goes from pink to black. So abo’s are essentially ex englishmen that have stayed in the dessert far to long for their own good.

    Enjoy your barbie tea.

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  182. Manolo (14,065 comments) says:

    Griff is Ure with spelling on steroids (pun intended).

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  183. F E Smith (3,307 comments) says:

    bruv,

    Accepted, but look at the way Ken Rutherford got treated by the Windies early on, yet moved on to eventually captain (although a test average of 27 isn’t that great).

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  184. Steve (North Shore) (4,589 comments) says:

    Thanks Kea.
    “Steve, head on over to the Bain thread and say Hi to your kin ”
    Are you related to them, or do you think I am?

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  185. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “yes ugly would you like to list the dissenting scientific organizations”

    Consensus isn’t about which organization you belong to, it is about general agreement. The fact that the official position of the Royal Society and the NAS tends to support AGW is not consensus.

    Recarding the 2009 “consensus”, “98% all scientists” referred to 75 of those 77 who answered “yes”.

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/18/about-that-overwhelming-98-number-of-scientists-consensus/

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  186. big bruv (14,156 comments) says:

    F E

    I agree, it remains a cricketing crime that the NZ selectors of that time (who were otherwise great) picked an 18 year old Ken Rutherford to replace the retired Bruce Edgar for that tour. In hindsight they would have been better to select his elder brother or a far more senior player who may also have failed but at least it would not have stuffed up their entire career.

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  187. Steve (North Shore) (4,589 comments) says:

    Manolo,
    “Griff is Ure with spelling on steroids (pun intended).”
    I always thought the magpie was two fucked up people

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  188. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Can anyone nominate any other test cricketer that would have been as financially successful as Terry Jarvis

    and Together with Glenn Turner, Jarvis holds the opening partnership record in Tests for New Zealand against all nations with 387 runs scored against the West Indies in Georgetown, Guyana during the 1971-1972 season.

    just one of them would do at the moment!!!! we can go an entire test match and not score 387 but anyway I’ve heard Mike from Otago’s got a plan so I’ll relax

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  189. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Are you related to them, or do you think I am?

    Steve, just suggesting it as a break from AGW and Cricket :)

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  190. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    kea another squawk

    Your alogical debating style reflect you inability to access meaningful evidence for your argument.

    In the colloquial: You talk shit cause that’s all you have.

    :lol:

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  191. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    as a break from AGW and Cricket

    Kea
    the thing about the cricket is that everything said about cricket on here makes sense and is proveable which is the exact opposite of the Bain threads

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  192. Steve (North Shore) (4,589 comments) says:

    A break from AGW and Cricket would mean Tennis or Sex.
    Tennis is ok coz the sex thing would go all gay and bring out another set of dysfuctional wankers

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  193. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Griff, that is very unpleasant. I was just asking for some detail about “THE EXPERIMENT !!!” you claimed is being conducted on our climate and that is responsible for global warming.

    Just a link to a scientific paper outlining the experiment will do. I am not asking much :)

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  194. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Griff…. have “they” done any “experiments” on you ?

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  195. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Look up the word alogical

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  196. Left Right and Centre (2,997 comments) says:

    Geez… the whole Griff vs Kea thing was fun. That was awesome.

    The thing with this climate change shit is that whatever your thoughts are…. no-one… including the most qualified in this world… knows with any *certainty* what’s going on. Or what will actually happen.

    And if the climate changes… well it’s changed before big time. Big time…..

    So… is it changing heaps with man’s help in a way that will kill us off faster? Or is it just ticking along one way or another as it always has?

    Whatever is actually taking place… no-one actually know which one eh? Can everyone agree on that? You don’t know. No…. you don’t know. Ah! You don’t know. You’re guessing.

    Even if I’m presented with 1000 boxes and told there’s a gold bar in one of them… I’m fairly certain that any one box won’t contain the gold bar… but I still don’t know with *100% certainty*.

    Just keep that in mind when you get a bit too cocksure in these pissing contests.

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  197. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Griff (3,820) Says:
    January 9th, 2013 at 7:16 pm


    You dismiss the possible consequences of the experiment we are undertaking on the atmosphere of this planet

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  198. Viking2 (11,568 comments) says:

    Hot yep.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/australia-weather-heats-colors-added-weather-map-195717230.html

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  199. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Left Right and Centre
    You are saying that the following scientific bodies have no idea about science

    The following scientific organizations endorse the consensus position that “most of the global warming in recent decades can be attributed to human activities”:

    American Association for the Advancement of Science
    American Astronomical Society
    American Chemical Society
    American Geophysical Union
    American Institute of Physics
    American Meteorological Society
    American Physical Society
    Australian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
    Australian Bureau of Meteorology and the CSIRO
    British Antarctic Survey
    Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences
    Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society
    Environmental Protection Agency
    European Federation of Geologists
    European Geosciences Union
    European Physical Society
    Federation of American Scientists
    Federation of Australian Scientific and Technological Societies
    Geological Society of America
    Geological Society of Australia
    Geological Society of London
    International Union for Quaternary Research (INQUA)
    International Union of Geodesy and Geophysics
    National Center for Atmospheric Research
    National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
    Royal Meteorological Society
    Royal Society of the UK
    Academia Brasiliera de Ciencias (Brazil)
    Royal Society of Canada
    Chinese Academy of Sciences
    Academie des Sciences (France)
    Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany)
    Indian National Science Academy
    Accademia dei Lincei (Italy)
    Science Council of Japan
    Academia Mexicana de Ciencias (Mexico)
    Russian Academy of Sciences
    Academy of Science of South Africa
    Royal Society (United Kingdom)
    National Academy of Sciences (USA) (12 Mar 2009 news release)
    The consensus is also endorsed by a Joint statement by the Network of African Science Academies (NASAC), including the following bodies:
    African Academy of Sciences
    Cameroon Academy of Sciences
    Ghana Academy of Arts and Sciences
    Kenya National Academy of Sciences
    Madagascar’s National Academy of Arts, Letters and Sciences
    Nigerian Academy of Sciences
    l’Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal
    Uganda National Academy of Sciences
    Academy of Science of South Africa
    Tanzania Academy of Sciences
    Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences
    Zambia Academy of Sciences
    Sudan Academy of Sciences
    Other Academies of Sciences that endorse the consensus:
    Australian Academy of Science
    Royal Society of New Zealand
    Polish Academy of Sciences

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  200. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Here is one of Griff’s sources

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  201. Kea (13,359 comments) says:


    “We need to get some broad based support,
    to capture the public’s imagination…
    So we have to offer up scary scenarios,
    make simplified, dramatic statements
    and make little mention of any doubts…
    Each of us has to decide what the right balance
    is between being effective and being honest.”
    – Prof. Stephen Schneider,
    Stanford Professor of Climatology,
    lead author of many IPCC reports

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  202. mikenmild (11,742 comments) says:

    Wow Griff. There are so many scientific organizations there that it is really amazing that a few bloggers can see through the conspiracy.

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  203. mikenmild (11,742 comments) says:

    Kea’s quote-mining has already been busted once today.

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  204. Azeraph (607 comments) says:

    The only thing that has me worried about climate change is New Zealands water generation and our sea life and the health of our oceans. Do we start offshore farming to keep up certain species? If the forecasters are right then most of the population is going to shift from one side of the country to the other or somewhere inbetween.

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  205. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    kea thinks he is smart
    looking from the outside his lack of argument is obvious

    Still fucking up GD day after day is annoying to this blogs readership.
    The baying of the nutters was to strong this morning for me to resist a good old nut job kicking :lol:

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  206. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Azeraph, fear not. The oceans are way too vast to have warmed up since the industrial age. Especially considering the modest increases claimed, if indeed there even has been an increase at all. It takes a very very long time to change ocean temperature.

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  207. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Griff, its time for you to have your bedtime joint and tuck Moonbeam & Aquarius into bed. Give my regards to your wife Karma. I hope those lentil patties don’t keep you farting all night again.

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  208. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Azeraph
    New Zealand is poised to do very well out of climate change
    Our climate is tempered by the ocean around us not exposed to the wide extremes of a continents. Our landmass is mountainous sea level rise will not have major impact
    The demand for our agricultural output and the prices we receive for it are guaranteed to rise as impacts widen

    Problems in are future will include water supplies on the east coasts leading to changes in land use or the abandonment of farming in some regions
    Impacts on our hydro generation
    all fixed if we tell the aluminum smelter to fuck off and stop asking for the rest of the country to subsidize them

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  209. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    all fixed if we tell the aluminum smelter to fuck off

    No need, if fucking hypocrites stop using their product.

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  210. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    The warming of the World Ocean accounts for approximately 90 % of the warming of the Earth during the last 6 decades [i].
    http://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/indicators/ocean-heat-content/assessment

    Figure 1 shows that the heat content of the World Ocean has increased since around 1970. The linear trend over the whole time series 1955–2010 of the uppermost 700 m and 2 000 m layer was 0.27 Wm-2 and 0.39 Wm-2 (per unit area of the World Ocean), respectively. Two thirds of the observed increase of global heat content has occurred in the upper 700 m of the ocean, with increases in the layers below 700 m depth accounting for the remaining one third [ii]. Heat content has increased in all major sea basins of the World Ocean, in particular in the Atlantic Ocean.

    Several global ocean data assimilation products are available to compare observation-based estimates with independent reanalysis data. Global and basin-scale heat content warming trends in the upper 700 m of the ocean computed from a set of global ocean reanalyses fall within the range of the most recent observation-based estimates derived using different methods [iii].

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  211. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Two thirds of the observed increase of global heat content has occurred in the upper 700 m

    Griff, do you know the average ocean depth is 4 km ?

    How about the remaining 3300 m ?

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  212. Left Right and Centre (2,997 comments) says:

    No griff I said they don’t know with 100% certainty. That’s a strawman style argument.

    Just like you don’t know with 100% certainty if it will rain or not on 26 June this year.

    I know there’s a lot of politicking in ‘climate change’ science. I know not all science is good science.

    I know it took a long time before all reputable scientists would accept the existence of tectonic plates. And a very small minority held out for a long time after most others had accepted the theory.

    And I know that I just just want to know either way. I’m not fixed to any one idea and having to defend it like it was an absolute truth that others were trying to refute. It’s not a conclusively proven idea.

    I don’t really care which one it is griff. No-one gets off this rock alive one way or another. Everything has a lifespan. Life on earth. Earth itself. The sun. What difference is fucking man made climate change going to make to that even in a worst case scenario? Human race is wiped out? That just means it will be sooner rather than later. All species come and go. That’s nature. That’s natural. There’s been mass extinctions. There’s been historical geological events that have wiped out far more than anything man made climate change will ever do.

    And using the recent Aussie high temps as your big convincing argument? That just makes you come off as a fucking moron mate. I wouldn’t even want you arguing with Fletch with you taking the ‘evolution’ position against a creationist… you’d fuck that up royally. The way you argue a point doesn’t help your cause man.

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  213. cha (4,081 comments) says:

    And you know how much water there actually is, right?.

    http://www.whoi.edu/page.do?pid=80696&i=7301

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  214. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Cha, that comparison is for the whole planet. If you look at surface and volume, we are a water planet.

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  215. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    gee mate you seem to be losing it
    cognitive dissonances does that
    we dont actually know with 100% certainty that the sun will rise tomorrow you point being ? we still have an overwhelming consensus among the scientific community that global warming is happening. Who else to you accept scientific knowledge from nutters on blogs? .Blogs that are easily exposed for their deliberate attempts to distort science.

    “recent Aussie high temps as your big convincing argument”
    No global changes in climate now becoming apparent as predicted by the climate scientists is the big fucken proof. record warmth for both the USA and aussie record wet for England, record melt for the arctic. In the past scientist have been very conservative in attributing climate events to global warming: there is no need of such caution now the evidence has become overwhelming.

    Often the nutters start up with the catastrophic global warming meme I simply pointed out some catastrophic effects of global warming at least on the personal level in our nearest neighbor.

    There will be more and more such posts in the coming months as more and more undeniable evidence that we are changing the climate emerges.
    That or dpf will ban me :lol:

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  216. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    “lobal changes in climate now becoming apparent as predicted by the climate scientists is the big fucken proof”

    You mean like the IPCC first assessment report that ‘predicted’ between .2 and .5 deg C warming since 1990, but the actual warming was (at most) .18 deg C?

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  217. Azeraph (607 comments) says:

    When was Australia’s last Heat Wave event? Will we see heat deaths like that of the france heatwave?

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  218. axeman (252 comments) says:

    Wow just wow! Today everybody has had to put up with our resident Northland stoner (and Fairfax) having discovered the weather is “Hot in the Desert” during the summer. LOL

    http://www.theage.com.au/environment/weather/temperatures-off-the-charts-as-australia-turns-deep-purple-20130108-2ce33.html

    Meanwhile elsewhere around the cold cold world

    http://notrickszone.com/2013/01/07/greenland-snow-cover-has-expanded-by-1000-manhattans-since-1974-clear-rising-trend/

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/05/china-weather-idUSL4N0AA0D820130105

    http://theextinctionprotocol.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/new-delhi-suffers-though-its-coldest-day-in-44-years/

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256188/What-global-warming-Alaska-headed-ice-age-scientists-report-states-steady-temperature-decline.html

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  219. axeman (252 comments) says:

    This has been presented to you before GRIEF ….. New Study Finds No Significant Human-Induced Warming

    At the journal Earth System Dynamics, M. Beenstock, Y. Reingewertz, and N. Paldor have published a paper titled “Polynomial cointegration tests of anthropogenic impact on global warming”. The authors conducted an exhaustive statistical analysis of data from 1850 through 2007, applying the technique of cointegration, which the authors describe as follows:

    Cointegration theory is based on the simple notion that time series might be highly correlated even though there is no causal relation between them. For the relation to be genuine, the residuals from a regression between these time series must be stationary, in which case the time series are “cointegrated”. Since stationary residuals mean-revert to zero, there must be a genuine long-term relationship between the series, which move together over time because they share a common trend. If on the other hand, the residuals are nonstationary, the residuals do not mean-revert to zero, the time series do not share a common trend, and the relationship between them is spurious because the time series are not cointegrated.

    You can follow the link http://www.earth-syst-dynam-discuss.net/3/561/2012/esdd-3-561-2012.html for the statistical details, but here is the authors’ conclusion:

    We have shown that anthropogenic forcings do not polynomially cointegrate with global temperature and solar irradiance. Therefore, data for 1880–2007 do not support the anthropogenic interpretation of global warming during this period. This key result is shown graphically in Fig. 3 where the vertical axis measures the component of global temperature that is unexplained by solar irradiance according to our estimates. In panel a the horizontal axis measures the anomaly in the anthropogenic trend when the latter is derived from forcings of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide. In panel b the horizontal axis measures this anthropogenic anomaly when apart from these greenhouse gas forcings, it includes tropospheric aerosols and black carbon. Panels a and b both show that there is no relationship between temperature and the anthropogenic anomaly, once the warming effect of solar irradiance is taken into consideration.

    Interestingly, the authors also conclude that the data admit the possibility that CO2 and other “greenhouse gases” could contribute to to a temporary increase in global temperatures:

    However, we find that greenhouse gas forcings might have a temporary effect on global temperature. This result is illustrated in panel c of Fig. 3 in which the horizontal axis measures the change in the estimated anthropogenic trend. Panel c clearly shows that there is a positive relationship between temperature and the change in the anthropogenic anomaly once the warming effect of solar irradiance is taken into consideration.

    Other scientists will weigh in on these findings, as the debate over climate continues to rage. Still, it is increasingly clear that the most reliable and sophisticated scientific work tends to show that the ANTHROPOGENIC GLOBAL WARMING HYPOTHESIS is WRONG. In that sense, it is fair to say that a consensus is emerging.

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  220. Griff (8,194 comments) says:

    Thanks for the weather again axenuckle
    We have already had a little discussion around the difference between a country wide all time record and a specific town or airport record
    I see we will have to add a few more for your benefit
    links to opinion pieces on denial websites dont make the grade as science they qualify as heavily biased.
    The daily mail has a long history of dodgy stories again not science its journalism no matter how pathetic and biased not science unless they are comprehensively linked to reputable science sources
    Short term cold snaps the coldest in forty years are all well and good. Have you not worked out that an unstable climate is one of the results of global warming this is called climate change.

    just a example of the ease these climate denial nutters blog deceive fucknuckle stupid sheep one of you links starts rabbiting on the snow cover in Greenland is going up this means that the ice is not melting
    http://notrickszone.com/2013/01/07/greenland-snow-cover-has-expanded-by-1000-manhattans-since-1974-clear-rising-trend/

    snow cover is the area covered in snow
    ice melt is the volume of ice melting

    Did you learn the difference between volume and area at school ? :lol: kindy even :lol: how about snow and ice do you know they are not identical in reference to conditions on Greenland

    Greenland is melting
    http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Greenland/greenland5.php
    Today, Velicogna’s new calculations adding data for 2005 and 2006 to her previous estimates show ice loss at just over 210 gigatons per year. When Luthcke and his colleagues updated their calculations with GRACE data collected through June 2006, they calculated a loss of 161 gigatons per year.

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  221. cha (4,081 comments) says:

    More grist for the mill.

    http://laptop.deh.gov.au/soe/2006/publications/drs/pubs/334/lnd/ld_24_climate_change_impacts_on_fire_weather.pdf

    EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

    A key finding of this study is that an increase in fire-weather risk is likely at most sites in 2020 and
    2050, including the average number of days when the FFDI rating is very high or extreme. The
    combined frequencies of days with very high and extreme FFDI ratings are likely to increase 4-25%
    by 2020 and 15-70% by 2050. For example, the FFDI results indicate that Canberra is likely to have
    an annual average of 25.6-28.6 very high or extreme fire danger days by 2020 and 27.9-38.3 days
    by 2050, compared to a present average of 23.1 days. The increase in fire-weather risk is generally
    largest inland. Tasmania is likely to be relatively unaffected.

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  222. RightNow (6,995 comments) says:

    2 points:

    1) the climate is NOT warming as much as was projected by the ‘consensus’ scientists despite our continued emissions
    2) nothing about recent climate is unprecedented

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  223. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    griff- you are a poster boy for the alarmist movement: Not terribly smart, fearful and willing to believe the establishment’s line no matter what.

    You’ll find yourself increasingly without support, despite your improving Google skills. I note that kiwiblog’s most vociferous supporters of CAGW have quietly stepped back from this debate. That’s probably wise as the growing set empirical evidence does not support runaway AGW, and the evidence of scientific fraud both in construction of the theory, and in the assembly of data inputs starts to mount.

    If believing the CAGW lie helps you get through your day then fair enough. But do keep posting. You’re doing more to dissuade the fence-sitters than rational debate, which you seem impervious to, will ever do.

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  224. Left Right and Centre (2,997 comments) says:

    griff… let’s say you’re 100% right. What then? What changes would you make in the world? What do you see happening for the human race?

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