Holocaust denial

January 26th, 2013 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Teuila Fuatai at NZ Herald reports:

Prime Minister shared tales of his Jewish mother’s escape from Nazi-controlled Austria at the United Memorial Day event this morning.

Mr Key addressed a crowd of about 200 people, which included Holocaust survivors, politicians and Israel’s Ambassador to New Zealand, Shemi Tzur, in Auckland.

His mother, born in Vienna, Austria, moved to the United Kingdom in 1938 with her brother. She moved to New Zealand after marrying a British soldier.

She did not speak any English and left her own mother in Austria when she fled, Mr Key said.

My father and his mother also left in 1938. Sadly not all my family managed to get out.

He spoke of his mother’s pain over the Holocaust.

People often asked: “Why is it that I can’t speak German?

“The simple answer is my mother refused to teach me.” She “did not want to reflect on her history”, Mr Key said.

I didn’t even realise my father’s side of my family was of Jewish ancestry until I remarked one day how a schoolmate was Jewish and how he seemed so normal.  And never once did we talk about what happened with my grandparents. I can only imagine how awful it was.

ZB reported:

Newstalk ZB’s Allan Lee says it was a moving event, with Mr Key speaking passionately and without notes.

He says it’s personal for the Prime Minister – his mother was an Austrian Jew and was forced to leave as a result of the Nazi invasion.

“She never wanted to talk about it and he told the audience today that his mother, whenever he tried to question her about it, she would just not answer. So he’s never really found out the full story of what happened to her.”

Mr Lee says Mr Key also spoke about Holocaust, saying people who deny it happened can only be described as mad.

And to prove this point, we have the lovely intellectuals at Stormfront who reacted to the PM’s comments with:

When the evidence stacking up against the Holocaust, makes the world realise it was a plot to secure Israel and that we must teach the truth…

Will the UN then change the day to UN Holohoax Memorial Day?

What sad people.

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110 Responses to “Holocaust denial”

  1. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    If there was a high concentration of black people in Europe at the time they would have been used as the main target by the regime and the Jewish peoples would have been lobbed in as well. It would not have mattered, The true blame for those two wars lays at the feet of the Kaiser and his mad dreams of power.

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  2. ben (2,379 comments) says:

    I dont recall who it was, but I believe a US general, possibly Eisenhower, anticipated future denial of the holocaust and ordered filming of its victims. How much further down the path of denial would the world be had he not made that order, or ordered no filming perhaps out of respect for the dead. We should be grateful to that general.

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  3. Andrei (2,634 comments) says:

    There is only one way to deal with holocaust deniers and that is mockery.

    Mind you sometimes some people transform the Germans of that era into the victims – my boy was shown a BBC thing in social studies by a female teacher about “the rape of Berlin” – Hello?

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  4. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    At least they’re not as bad as climate change deniers.

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  5. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Hmmmm, so Key’s family left Austria in 1938, and DPF’s family left Austria in 1938. That’s it!! They’re related :D

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  6. cha (4,009 comments) says:

    “the rape of Berlin” – Hello?

    Frau, komm

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  7. kowtow (8,436 comments) says:

    Holocaust deniers are certainly from the extreme fringe .

    But the tendency to outlaw and ban opinions has become too prevalent.The fact that you can go to gaol in western democracies like France for an opinion is truely shocking.

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  8. tvb (4,416 comments) says:

    I find holocaust deniers deeply offensive. But extremist elements in Israel exploit it for political purposes to justify extreme racist policies. That I find offensive in a contemporary context.

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  9. ChardonnayGuy (1,206 comments) says:

    Fortunately, pond scum like the National Front or whatever it’s pretending to be this week are so miniscule it’s almost amusing (although I certainly wouldn’t want to meet them in a dark alley, or indeed anywhere). We can be proud that unlike Australia, the New Zealand League of Rights, a constituent element of the largest Australasian neofascist, racist and antisemitic organisation, with a habit of repeatedly infiltrating and sharing platform with Christian Right organisations, had to fold up and die due to lack of interest back in 2009. The French National Front and British National Party on the other hand, aren’t so easy to deride.

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  10. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Fortunately we do not have any serious problem with Holocaust denial in New Zealand and when it occurs it is usually dismissed fairly readily. If anything, it is a useful indicator of other bat-shit crazy opinions, such as pre-Maori settlement of New Zealand, Masonic conspiracies etc.

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  11. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    Many of those who died in the Holocaust were not Jews. They are not remembered. The vast majority of the National Socialist Workers Party victims were not Jewish. About 75 million people died in the war, and most were not Jewish. The Holocaust was not the worst thing in the war and far worse has happened since then. Russian socialist killed 40 million people. If you look at what happened in China, after the war, you will get some perspective. By some estimates Chinese Socialists killed more of their own people, in peace time, than the entire death toll of WWII (all sides combined).

    So I wonder why the Holocaust is always held up as an example of the ultimate evil ? For those of us who know a bit of history, that is not the case. I am not attempting to minimise the Holocaust, I am just not prepared to minimise the far greater horrors that others have suffered in modern times, as many who focus on the Holocaust do. It is quite acceptable for liberals to defend Mao, Pol Pott etc, but just look at the hysteria if anyone questions the official story of the Holocaust. You can even be thrown in jail for it.

    [DPF: There were many evil acts in the 20th century. But numbers alone are not the only factor. What makes the Holocaust so chilling it it was a systemic attempt to destroy an entire race - and a race that had been living reasonably peacefully within "civilised" European society. This was not a by-product of a wider aim such as Stalin supressing dissent or Mao's mad policies. It was a deliberate decision to exterminate an entire race from Europe. That is what is unique about the Holocaust]

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  12. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I’m not aware of ‘liberals’ defending the crimes of Mao or Pol Pot but, more importantly, it is not a competition in which the regime that killed the most people becomes top of the popos.
    The reason that the Holocaust figures so prominently in our memories of the last century is the uniqueness of the attempt to obliterate a race and the scientific and industrial effort that the Nazis devoted to that end.

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  13. flipper (4,051 comments) says:

    IT WAS Eisenhower.
    He also made the residents of the adjacent town clean up one (forget which) death camp , while the surviving occupants watched..

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  14. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    History has been tampered with and re-written. The Jews were not victims of fascism they were victims of socialism. Hitler was not just a socialist in name, but in policy and thinking. The Jews were held up as a money controlling elite undermining the efforts of the common people. Typical lefty thinking. The Holocaust victims join a long ( & growing) list of those who have died under socialist regimes.

    Lefties get all hysterical and try and distance themselves from their real history. Hitler was a socialist and so was Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ceaușescu and so on. If you are a socialist, then you ARE part of it. You cowardly lefty scum will deny that and say you do not support those things. Ok….. how would you feel about Neo Nazis who claimed to “not be like that” ? Why the double standard ? The Germans socialists killed 6 million Jews. But 150 million have died by socialists since then. So why is everyone so emotive about the German socialists and their imagery ?

    To see how brain washed our society is, it is considered ok to wear T-Shirts with pictures of Mao & Che Guevara on them, but how would you feel about a T-Shirt with a swastika and a picture of Hitler on it ?

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  15. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    mikenmild, predictably here you are defending socialism and therefore the National Socialist Workers Party (Nazi).

    That is a weak and unconvincing response. There have been numerous attempts to wipe out cultures, religions, races etc. You are factually incorrect on that one.

    The second point you raise is that the Germans were good at it. Your socialist buddies in other countries killed way more, of their OWN PEOPLE, than Hitler did European Jews.

    Do you actually know people who have lived in one of your socialist workers paradises and have spoken with them about how life really is ? I get the impression you have no idea what you are a part of.

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  16. cha (4,009 comments) says:

    It was Walker and Patton and the US commanders on the ground who ordered that residents of Dachau and other towns confront the horrors of the camps.

    Eisenhower ordered the documentation that was used at the Nuremberg trials.

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  17. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    When Germany surrendered in 1918 it was largely because of the US entry to the war. Apparently a lot of Germans blamed their Jewish countrymen for that, which sentiment obviously became much more vehement over the years of deprivation not just over Versailles but over the depression. Germany suffered more than any other nation in 1929. And the evil Hitler and Goebbals was able to translate that into hatred for a scapegoated people. I’ve watched a lot of footage and read a lot of accounts of the years before the war in Germany and what Hitler et al succeeded in doing was take one of the most cultured and civilised people in Europe and turn a generation of them into monsters. (I don’t think they were monsters personally but that’s what most people do think.)

    My reading of history is that Hitler was operating to a wider plan and this is why he deliberately committed two deadly strategic moves one in the West the other in the East and this was specifically so Germany would lose. The wider plan was the establishment of the State of Israel as we know it today. And it worked.

    I’ve always found war an interesting study of human behaviour because the stakes are anything and everything but there is a cynical aspect to war in that people are moved like chess pieces on a board and we’re all pawns. The holocaust to me shows the outrageous extent to which this principle is taken. Imagine being so cynical about human life as a fellow human that you specifically determine to round up, torture and kill millions and carry it all out.

    To me this evil transcends the human spirit into the demonic realm. Have a look at this. I understand that Satanists perform sacrifice rituals inside pentagrams because it entraps the spirit of the sacrifice. That’s why they do it. I’m not judging it, I’m explaining it. And that map, if those ley lines are accurate, is quite interesting.

    As people know I like to analyse propaganda and to me, the Jewish component of the holocaust is only one component. There were many other significant groups murdered there as well. IMO the amount we hear about the other groups is unbalanced by comparison to what we always but always hear about the Jewish component of that atrocity. Which would be fine, but it’s gotten to the point where sometimes if you even mention other groups, some people automatically change circuits and conclude therefore you’re saying lots of Jews didn’t get killed? That’s what some people think you’re saying, if you do that. And when a known fact of history gets to the point where it gets a reaction like that from some people, don’t you think that’s just a tad OTT. It’s a bit precious, is what I mean. But that’s nothing new for this brave new world of ours, is it.

    http://one-evil.org/content/acts_vatican_holocaust_part_2.html

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  18. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    No reid, Hitler did not turn them into monsters. He turned them into Socialists.

    DEATH UNDER MAO

    Great Leap Forward poster Scholars believe that Mao in some way was involved in the death of at least 40 million people and possibly as many as 80 million, more deaths during peace time than any other leader. Most of them perished during the Great Famine in the late 1950s, which followed the Great Leap Forward. Millions more may have died in the Cultural Revolution. In comparison, Hitler was responsible for 12 million concentration camps deaths and Stalin killed between 30 and 40 million during the purges and famines of the 1920s and 30s.

    http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=1081&catid=2

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  19. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    Kea it doesn’t matter what political strands Hitler drew from. Who cares? Why is it relevant to analyse that? What’s the import of establishing from whence his ideas came? How does knowing that add to general knowledge?

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  20. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    New information is constantly emerging from official party records documenting the horrors …Dying was all that was left to them. As many as three million didn’t wait for nature to dispatch them but took their own lives.
    Discipline was merciless as the tyranny from the top passed down through the layers of power. At community level, it descended into pure sadism.

    Villagers caught trying to hide or hoard food were clubbed to death. Ears were lopped off, hair ripped out, people branded with hot irons; they were forced to eat excrement, doused in petrol and set alight.
    Dikotter found evidence of all these punishments for offences as small as digging up a potato. In all, he estimated 2.5 million people were beaten or tortured to death.
    Youth was no excuse. A 12-year-old boy was drowned in a pond like a kitten for stealing food from the communal canteen.
    After a boy took a handful of grains, his father was forced to bury him alive.
    Women were raped at will by party officials and the militia who policed the communes. For minor infractions, it was not unusual for them to be paraded naked through their villages, a humiliation that caused many to kill themselves.

    A starving mother accused of stealing a few grains of rice for her two children jumped into a river to drown with them strapped to her back.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017839/Madman-starved-60-million-death-Devastating-book-reveals-Maos-megalomania-turned-China-madhouse.html

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  21. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    Kea it doesn’t matter what political strands Hitler drew from. Who cares? Why is it relevant to analyse that? What’s the import of establishing from whence his ideas came? How does knowing that add to general knowledge?

    So it “doesn’t matter” if someone were, for example, a Neo-Nazi ? Not relevant ? Who cares ?

    Given the proven and known history of socialist regimes I believe it does matter. All socialist regimes, where they have full control, have been brutal and oppressive. There is a direct link. We do not tolerate people having “degrees” of being a Nazi, yet we tolerate socialists in our society, yet Nazis were socialists !

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  22. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    we tolerate socialists in our society, yet Nazis were socialists !

    Yes but so what? If you want to talk about Nazis in society then I suggest you look at the most influential group of them which were the intelligence people who formed the CIA and their present crop of successors. That’s where the Nazi base of power lies in the US and it always has. Bush 41 for example has very strong Nazi connections. A very interesting possibility is he was the “curious George” of Tesla fame. But to discuss all that you have to know your history and what happened after Paperclip and not many people know that.

    You would have thought that meme names like “The Dept of Homeland Security” would have rung a bit of an alarm bell in some thinking people but apparently the dumbing down campaign by the US media has rendered most but not all of its people quite senseless. Why even over here on this very blog no doubt some people would be skeptical of the Nazi parallels. But just look at the TSA, for example. If that’s not the Gestapo Mk II in waiting, then what is? It’s all about boil the frog of course and what they rely on is that people would hallucinate such extrapolations would be outrageous. But they have all the framework, all the apparatus, all the legislation, in place, ready to go, in the land of the free and the home of the brave. They do. It’s all there, in the public domain. The constitution was rendered meaningless, after those laws come into effect and that’s a fact. Yet some refuse to believe their eyes, behaving very like the English in the early thirties, as the storm clouds slowly gathered.

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  23. Jimmy Smits (246 comments) says:

    Hi cha – do you mind sharing how you embed videos? Thanks.

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  24. Griff (7,678 comments) says:

    Fascism.

    Interesting word according to Wiki
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

    According to most scholars of fascism, there are both left and right influences on fascism as a social movement, and fascism, especially once in power, has historically attacked communism, conservatism and parliamentary liberalism, attracting support primarily from the “far right” or “extreme right.

    You know why the usa has a faction heading that way reid.
    Red Baiters politics exemplify it in a way familiar to most of us.
    The only way the far right can “liberate” us from the filthy socialist liberal progressives is by force. :lol:

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  25. ChardonnayGuy (1,206 comments) says:

    For those who want to pretend that the Nazis were ‘socialist’- undeniably, they were Keynesian capitalists, but definitely capitalists. Who made Zyklon B gas? IG Farben, a major German corporate. And the Krupp industrial cartels also backed Hitler. Communists and independent trade unions were outlawed. And don’t forget Operation Barbarossa in 1941, against the Soviet Union. If not for the defence of Stalingrad, I doubt whether many of us would be talking today.

    It is true that there were other victims of Nazi genocide apart from the Jews, such as Gypsies (Sinti and Romani), but in lesser numbers, which is not to diminish the moral seriousness of what happened to their communities- nearly one million Sinti and Romani also died in the concentration camps. Nearly fifty thousand gay men were overworked and starved to death in penal servitude. Jehovah’s Witnesses, communists, vagrants and psychiatric patients and the intellectually disabled were also Nazi victims.

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  26. Ryan Sproull (7,112 comments) says:

    It can’t be as simple as this…

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  27. Ryan Sproull (7,112 comments) says:

    Oh. It can. Jimmy, you just post the URL of the YouTube video on a line by itself in the comment.

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  28. cha (4,009 comments) says:

    Jimmy, clicking share on the original youtube page will generate an embed URL to copy and paste..

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  29. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    ChardonnayGuy, look up what the Nazis actually sold to the German people. It was socialism. It sounds like something from the Maori party.

    1. Closing the gaps

    2. Allowing ordinary working folk a voice.

    3. Full employment.

    4. Preserving the land and language of the indigenous people.

    5. Changing the monetary system run by big banks.

    And so on…

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  30. Ryan Sproull (7,112 comments) says:

    Tried that, Cha. It doesn’t work here. WordPress automatically takes the YouTube URL if it’s on a line by itself and implements the embed itself.

    http://en.support.wordpress.com/videos/youtube/

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  31. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    Most of you are immune to reason on this topic, but here goes:

    HITLER WAS A SOCIALIST
    John J. Ray (M.A.; Ph.D.)
    EPITOME:
    Hitler was a fairly mainstream Leftist of his day. It must be remembered that he gained power by way of a democratic election, not by way of a revolution or a military coup. If any of that seems wrong to you, you need to keep reading

    http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id9.html

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  32. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    “”We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” –Adolf Hitler

    (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)”

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  33. eszett (2,408 comments) says:

    Most of you are immune to reason on this topic,

    Pot Kettle Black

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  34. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    eszett, can you point to anything I have said that is not factually correct ?

    The socialist apologists and historical revisionists can hammer away at the vote down button all they like, but it will not turn fiction into fact nor will it wipe the stench of corruption and death from their hands.

    It is not people like me who allowed these horrors to occur, it is people like you eszett.

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  35. Griff (7,678 comments) says:

    I guess by the jumps in continuity I am experiencing there may be a series of post that I do not see.
    Perusal of the number of posts count would tend to support my theory.
    Oh dear how sad never mind.
    :lol:

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  36. cha (4,009 comments) says:

    I know I’m playing pigeon chess but WTF.

    The German state is gravely attacked by Marxism.

    http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/meinkampf/v2c9.htm

    In the years 1913 and 1914, I… expressed the conviction that the question of the future of the German nation was the question of destroying Marxism.

    http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/meinkampf/v1c4.htm

    The Marxists will march with democracy until they succeed in indirectly obtaining for their criminal aims the support of even the national intellectual world, destined by them for extinction.

    Marxism itself systematically plans to hand the world over to the Jews

    http://www.mondopolitico.com/library/meinkampf/v2c1.htm

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  37. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    “That is what is unique about the Holocaust”

    DPF, bullshit. Learn some history and get back to me. There is nothing “unique” about it.

    You also appear to have no real idea at all, of what has gone on in socialist countries. I am not referring the deaths caused by famine, but the mass murder, torture, imprisonment of the people. You probably even think that Hitler dreamed up the death camps. Wrong again. Such places had been running for years in Russia and continued to do so until rather recently. Every socialist regime has done the same, employing vast armies of secret police to intimidate the citizens. It is still happening today, while people drone on about the Nazis ! Disgusting.

    Your attempt to make the jewish deaths somehow more tragic is nonsense. It makes little difference why someone is tortured and killed, it is just wrong. The only common thread in all this is SOCIALISM, but you refuse to acknowledge it.

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  38. Scott Chris (6,133 comments) says:

    It was a deliberate decision to exterminate an entire race from Europe. That is what is unique about the Holocaust

    Not unique:

    The Porajmos was the attempt made by Nazi Germany, the Independent State of Croatia, Horthy’s Hungary and their allies to exterminate the Romani people of Europe during World War II Under Hitler’s rule.

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  39. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    cha, not all socialists follow the thinking of the German Jew Marx.

    Was that the point you were making ?

    Hitler was a socialist, not a Marxist.

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  40. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    Stalin killed more people in the Ukraine in one year than the entire Holocaust.

    SEVEN MILLION in one year !

    http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/stalin.htm

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  41. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    What made fascism successful as with all tyrannies is gun control

    Take guns off the people and you control them.

    Most Jewish survivors today are seeing 1930’s Germany in the US all over again.

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  42. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    It was a deliberate decision to exterminate an entire race from Europe. That is what is unique about the Holocaust]

    The first genocide of the 20th Century occurred when two million Armenians living in Turkey were eliminated from their historic homeland through forced deportations and massacres.

    http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/armenians.htm

    Beginning on April 6, 1994, and for the next hundred days, up to 800,000 Tutsis were killed by Hutu militia using clubs and machetes, with as many as 10,000 killed each day.

    http://www.historyplace.com/worldhistory/genocide/rwanda.htm

    Here is a link to some current genocides happening now. Of course they are not unique & their deaths don’t matter. (they are not jews) http://www.genocidewatch.org/

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  43. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    To explain that, we first have to address the issue of FEMA camps. Publicly described as “refugee camps,” FEMA camps have a reputation among the “awakened” community as being concentration camps. There is evidence that FEMA camps are stockpiling huge numbers of cadaver incineration containers (http://tv.naturalnews.com/v.asp?v=C67234C7049D2AB2F3D897B805FEFEC2). The recent purchase of 1.4 billion rounds of ammunition by the DHS also indicates a massive amount of firepower is about to be directed at the American population. (http://www.naturalnews.com/036847_ammo_purchases_government_stockpili…)

    Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/036951_financial_collapse_optimism_silver_lining.html#ixzz2J2LLP89x

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  44. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    My reading of history is that Hitler was operating to a wider plan and this is why he deliberately committed two deadly strategic moves one in the West the other in the East and this was specifically so Germany would lose. The wider plan was the establishment of the State of Israel as we know it today.

    So a deliberate sacrifice of 6 million Jews and two deliberate errors by their puppet, Hitler, was in fact a carefully calculated plan to create Israel?

    Reid, you have surpassed all previous attempts. This latest effort deserves an award for fantasy writing.

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  45. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    I guess by the jumps in continuity I am experiencing …

    It is during these drug induced black-outs that he does some of his best thinking :)

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  46. Sam Buchanan (501 comments) says:

    Kea, you can brand Hitler a socialist, and by some definitions of the word you are correct. But trying to smear other leftists with an imaginary link to Hitler is simply rubbish. Read a bit of history and you’ll find a consistent pattern of most leftists opposing the Nazis, frequently when it took a great deal of bravery to do so.

    I kind of agree with you on Che Guevara and Mao t-shirts though. But that’s capitalism, people will make a buck selling anything. The companies who produce these things should be boycotted.

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  47. Sam Buchanan (501 comments) says:

    By the way, notorious anti-Semite and former National Front member Nic Miller announced his intention to run for council in Whanganui recently. Whether he gets his act together to do so is another matter.

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  48. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    hinamanu, they will have no problem recruiting guards, for the FEMA camps, here on KB. Especially with a left leaning president in office.

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  49. Dazzaman (1,140 comments) says:

    My reading of history is that Hitler was operating to a wider plan and this is why he deliberately committed two deadly strategic moves one in the West the other in the East and this was specifically so Germany would lose. The wider plan was the establishment of the State of Israel as we know it today.

    That’s batshit crazy Reid, on a par with 9/11 conspiracy theories & the whole AGW hoax!

    Purchase your supply of tinfoil at any Countdown & New World today….

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  50. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    Kea, you can brand Hitler a socialist, and by some definitions of the word you are correct. But trying to smear other leftists with an imaginary link to Hitler is simply rubbish.

    Sam, I was smearing them with their links to all the other (far worse) socialist regimes. The real point I am making, is why we all get so upset over the holocaust but not all the other mass murders. I also get annoyed with the way the left have distorted & deny their own political history.

    Of course other commies opposed Hitler. So what?. It is well known how socialists dictators brutally resist any perceived threat to their total control.

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  51. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “Of course other commies opposed Hitler. So what?. It is well known how socialists dictators brutally resist any perceived threat to their total control.”

    and that’s done by gun control

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  52. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    “some definition of the word…”

    “”We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” –Adolf Hitler

    (Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)”

    This SOCIALIST went on to kill 6 million Jews, (and about 70 million others, but they don’t matter) and plunged the world into war.

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  53. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    That’s batshit crazy Reid

    It explains reality Dazza. Nothing else does quite as well. Reality is not a spontaneous upwelling of the people’s will, as the media likes to paint the western life. If you think it is, then you simply aren’t very observant.

    Why is it so improbable to you that they would setup Israel? Don’t you know what Revelations says? Don’t you know what Christianity is all about? Apparently not. Otherwise you would know this is Satan’s world, right here, right now. This is what the Bible says. Satan’s objective is to make people voluntarily turn to him and away from the voluntary sacrifice of surrender to God. And one of Satan’s crowning “glories” is to destroy Israel in order to show the world he is more powerful than God and then to resurrect Solomon’s Temple. This is what the Bible says, is going to happen.

    If you can’t see how global geopolitics has played out this scenario over the last eight to nine decades, you’re blind. Personally I see it back much further, but since Balfour it’s been obvious for all to see.

    If you don’t think Satan is behind this then tell me why the Rothschilds paid for the Israeli Supreme Court building which is packed to the brim with masonic symbolism, on the condition no-one would ever know the cost. Who do you think the Rothschilds are? Some old money family from the 1700’s? But most importantly, why the masonic symbolism? Why? In the Israeli Supreme Court?

    Word to the wise.

    So there’s a difference between being educated in the religious paradigms and the rest of humanity these days Dazza, I hope you’re not in the latter group. You miss out on a great deal of pertinent knowledge.

    And notice none of what I’ve just said is “theoretical.” This is what Christianity and the Bible says.

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  54. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    and that’s done by gun control

    Yes it is part of it. The other big one is control of information. The free exchange of ideas is stopped.

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  55. cha (4,009 comments) says:

    Most Jewish survivors today are seeing 1930′s Germany in the US all over again.

    Try reading this and you’ll learn that the Weimar Republic enacted their arms confiscation laws in 1919 in an effort to head off any coup attempt. And in 1928, five years before Hitler was appointed as Chancellor, the arms possession laws were relaxed in favour of a registration scheme.

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  56. Ryan Sproull (7,112 comments) says:

    Reid, may I ask what kind of church you attend?

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  57. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    One thing to deny the Holocaust and another thing to believe 6 million were killed.

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  58. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    they will have no problem recruiting guards, for the FEMA camps, here on KB.

    Speaking of that I always remember a very creepy scene from one nights six o-clock news back when I used to watch it. It was Hulun on a tour through Germany and she and the entourage visited Aushwitz. The camera was on the platform at the top of one of the watchtowers and it showed people clambouring up. The shot was of Heather Simpson stomping up and she swept straight past the camera and started madly snapping pics in all directions. I thought to myself, I wonder if tonight she’s going to dream about what it was like to stand there and watch all those people down below. That’s when I realised who she reminded me of. The loyal dog that guarded Damien in The Excorcist.

    ,i>Yes it is part of it. The other big one is control of information. The free exchange of ideas is stopped.

    IMO it’s not stopped but rather distorted Kea. It’s like a river that flows constantly and you can’t stop it flowing but it’s possible to swing the direction but the key is doing it so the targets don’t know it’s being done. As soon as they know, it’s over. But that’s what they do in small ways and large, all the time. Take the gun control info-wars in the US for example. That’s just one arena that’s being worked at the moment. At the end of the day all of it every single bit of it is control by fear. That’s what they play on. It’s the big bad boogeyman all the time, nothing healthy, nothing uplifting, just dysfunction. Pretty soon when all the network shows are like that and all the news reports are like that and many movies are like that, the national mood starts registering it. That’s what they do and that’s how they do it.

    Reid, may I ask what kind of church you attend?

    Anglican Ryan but I speak for no-one but myself on this. My interpretation of religion is my own.

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  59. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    Gulag just hit the nail on the head, and I might add, the lesson that is mostly learnt from the nazi era is propaganda by government – it leads to conformity and hatred of those who don’t conform.

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  60. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    Reid, hi, that is a premil interpretation which is Scripture to fit a point of view. Try the amiil and postmil view, they are far more logical with different outcomes

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  61. Harriet (4,969 comments) says:

    Reid, I think you mean Damien in The Omen.

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  62. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    ‘lesson that is mostly learnt from the nazi era is propaganda by government – it leads to conformity and exclusion of those who don’t conform.”

    That’s where ingraining PC comes in.

    Americans are slaves to the pharmaceuticals and make big pharma billions every year. Thanks to being conditioned they can have the American dream. The lie that leads Americans to meds.

    I have thought Kiwi’s are far stronger and independent but our govts curb our independence and initiatives at every opportunity.

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  63. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Perhaps a more accurate term instead of socialism is collectivism. You can find it spanning the political spectrum. tough collective behaviour is predominantly a left wing phenomenon. It’s a less intense form of cults. And if you come into contact with a collective you wanna get the fuck out of town. Being in a collective absolutely subsumes a normal persons ability to make rational decisions based on the evidence in front of their eyes.

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  64. cha (4,009 comments) says:

    sigh..so many powerful arguments today..

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  65. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    Well said Monique and an accurate observation.

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  66. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “And in 1928, five years before Hitler was appointed as Chancellor, the arms possession laws were relaxed in favour of a registration scheme.”

    Lets not forget IBM and their punch cards used by Nazi Germany to identify citizenry for ethnic and religious backgrounds which is how the Nazis knew how to round up Jews and gun laws were probably relaxed for Aryans.

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  67. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    We should make an agreement, The Nazi Soviet Russia and Communist China extermination figures agreement. The Holocaust gets most of the attention so lets give equal time to the other two.

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  68. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    Cheers Harriet.

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  69. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    Gulag1917, they won’t like that idea. It is not popular at all. It makes people face the cold hard facts. The saddest part is it is happening now in socialist countries.

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  70. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    The media has completely screened out how Iceland has jailed its bankers, drawn up a new constitution and utterly reversed its economy and fortunes.

    Iceland is the new real leader in economic and political innovation and the more we learn of them the more enlightened we will be on keeping our freedoms and true democracy.

    It’s all online

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  71. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Use the new voting buttons to find who has made the craziest post today.
    Thumbs up for Reid
    Thumbs down for Kea

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  72. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Not just John Key and DPF.

    The most bizarre twist to the tragedy of the Holocaust may be that Hitler was part-Jewish. Part African, too. So much for the Nazis’ Aryan nonsense.

    Jews were horribly persecuted in Russia before Hitler’s regime. Edward the First expelled Jews from England in 1290. His edict of expulsion remained in force for 357 years. The Inquisition in Spain drove out, forcibly converted to Christianity, or murdered Jews as well as Muslims.

    Perhaps the Jews have suffered more persecution than most others because they are distinct in both religion and ethnicity.Being different in one of these can be enough to get you a hard time.

    It’s hard to dispute that as communities Jews are intelligent, creative, law-abiding, cultured, education-loving, and tolerant, and that they benefit the countries in which they live. (No, I’m not Jewish.)

    IMHO, the problem is that human beings are an aggressive, discriminatory species, and can be highly dangerous and unreasonable when in an emotional mob. Just as hens can pick the lowest-ranking bird to death, history is full of the cruel persecution and genocide of distinct groups. In recent years, think of the Armenians in Turkey, albino Africans, Rwandans, to name a few. Yes, Cha (9.22 post) the Soviet atrocities against German women, children, and civilians generally in East Prussia and Berlin are among these crimes, too.

    For apparent DNA evidence of Hitler’s part-Jewish ancestry read the link at the bottom.

    From Wikipedia:

    After the war Hitler’s former lawyer, Hans Frank, claimed that Hitler told him in 1930 that one of his relatives was trying to blackmail him by threatening to reveal his alleged Jewish ancestry.[12] Hitler asked Frank to find out the facts. Frank says he determined that at the time Maria Schicklgruber gave birth to Alois she was working as a household cook in the town of Graz, her employers were a Jewish family named Frankenberger, and that her child might have been conceived out of wedlock with the family’s 19-year-old son, Leopold Frankenberger.

    And Hitler’s DNA:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/7961211/Hitler-had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html

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  73. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    the problem is that human beings are an aggressive, discriminatory species, and can be highly dangerous and unreasonable when in an emotional mob

    Wot, like on Kiwiblog?

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  74. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    thedavincimode:

    Of course, Lefties generally are the exception. Think of the 20 million dead from the Great Leap Forward, the millions who died in the Gulags, Pol Pot….

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  75. David Garrett (7,270 comments) says:

    Hinamanu: Are you serious (wo)man? Hitler became the fuhrer of Germany because the ordinary people didn’t have enough access to firearms? Mein Gott….

    But now to throw the cat among the pigeons …. Only the truly deluded or completely ignorant believe the holocaust either didnt happen, or was all some sort of propaganda charade to enable the establishment of Israel…and while I do not for one second agree with the murder of innocents by terrorists/freedom fighters anywhere, and no matter what their cause, I do sometimes find myself thinking – almost against my will – “give it a bloody rest” when Israelis and their supporters invoke the holocaust as continuing justification for excluding the Palestinians from the land they were living in prior to 1948…

    and as unwelcome as it might be, the holocaust itself DOES have to be put in perspective – at least in terms of the sheer numbers killed – alongside Stalin’s far greater excesses….To deny that is to also deny history…

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  76. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    IMHO, the problem is that human beings are an aggressive, discriminatory species, and can be highly dangerous and unreasonable when in an emotional mob.

    But that’s not how wars start or are fought Jack. Mob rule doesn’t apply in warfare, at all.

    or was all some sort of propaganda charade to enable the establishment of Israel

    David if you think that’s what I said above you’re wrong. Who thinks that? Who would? That’s mental.

    To deny that is to also deny history

    I don’t think anyone’s “denied” it here today, have they?

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  77. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    DG
    It’s not simply a numbers game. Stalin, Mao and Hitler don’t automatically go in a particular order that correlates with the numbers of deaths under their regimes. Also as time passes, possibly they will come to be viewed differently. Already we are seeing something of a rehabilitation of Stalin’s reputation in Russia. To an ordinary Russian today, he is more likely to be viewed favourably than his fellow dictators.
    History is a funny thin. In two hundred years time, will we view Hitler’s crimes as dispassionately as we can Napoleon’s today?

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  78. David Garrett (7,270 comments) says:

    Mikey: Of course you are right, and it’s not simply a matter of numbers. As I recall, the usual defining characteristic of the holocaust which distinguishes it from other mass murders or attempts at genocide is the cold and systematic organization of it all; the ongoing attempts to make the killing more and more “efficient”. The macabre and sadistic touches like the orchestras playing at Auschwitz railway station….

    But none of that is germane to my central point: that citing the holocaust endlessly as justification for almost anything done by or on behalf of the state of Israel over 70 years later is starting to wear just a little thin.

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  79. cha (4,009 comments) says:

    the cold and systematic organization of it all

    That DG and the willingness of communities to cooperate with the perpetrators to the extent that they handed over the others who’d lived amongst them for generations and then promptly seized their property.

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  80. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    That DG and the willingness of communities to cooperate with the perpetrators to the extent that they handed over the others who’d lived amongst them for generations and then promptly seized their property.

    On the World at War series there’s an interview with a British lady who lived in Germany with her children and her Jewish doctor has just spent the night with her sick child and when he’s leaving in the morning he turns to her and asks if she wants him to continue tending her children and she says yes of course, why ever not? And the doctor tells her he’s been told he’s not allowed to look after German patients. Then later she recounts how a Jewish family she knew about to be deported knocked on her door asking for shelter. She knew she was risking her life and her children’s lives if she let them in. She regretfully turned them down and as she closed the door, she told the interviewer that in that moment, she realised that Adolf Hitler had turned her into a murderer.

    You have to walk in those footsteps IMO cha, before you really can draw an accurate conclusion.

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  81. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Which is why we remember the special heroism of those who chose to help when they could have turned Jews away. Until tested, who can say what might be the limits of one’s courage?

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  82. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    You know what mm I wouldn’t hesitate to do it were it my own life at stake but that of my children and wife as well? Personally I plan to become an underwater demolition expert if the Nazis ever show themselves around here mm. That’s my plan anyway. What’s yours? :)

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  83. cha (4,009 comments) says:

    I think I’ll rely on survivor accounts like that of the late Leon Leyson.

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  84. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    It’s disappointing no-one’s taken up my thesis of Hitler deliberately sabotaging the German war effort. That would be interesting to discuss.

    The fact is, history is written by the victors. WWII is considered by almost all to be a straight-forward fight about good vs evil and that’s all there is and ever will be to it. Our history has been designed to tell us this. So why not believe it?

    And my thesis butts up against that. But it’s true. Those two strategic moves Hitler made were deliberate and calculated and resulted in Germany losing the war. Hitler first allowed the BEF to escape Dunkirk and then in Russia he diverted panzers from Army Group Centre to Army Groups North and South when the former was almost upon the gates of Moscow and in Russia, Moscow rules everything. All roads point to Moscow, in Russia. But no, let’s explore the oilfields instead. As if they were going away, anytime soon. But that’s what he did.

    They were masterfully counter-productive. I mean his stance on the ME-262 was bad enough by insisting on a fighter-bomber which delayed it while Germany continued to be pounded day and night. But that was a micro level compared to these macro moves on the geostrategic chessboard which Hitler and his staff were playing.

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  85. RRM (9,916 comments) says:

    Remember kids, if you vote for the Labour candidate in the Horowhenua by-election, you’re no different than the mass-murderers of the Stalin / Mao / Pot regimes… your evil is absolutely equivalent to theirs…

    A certain Kiwiblog commentor will no doubt be along soon to tell us all about it! ;-)

    For something a little different, (and since the DH Mosquito is slightly topical here in NZ at the moment…) here’s some period film of the RAF attack on the Gestapo HQ in Copenhagen:

    http://195.231.246.70/agent/style/besat/Default.aspx?22691

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  86. Gulag1917 (915 comments) says:

    Not quite sure that Hitler was that much of a genius. No doubt BEF was allowed to escape Dunkirk. Russia was a tactical disaster. It was Hitler that was the advocate for eastern expansion so why would he want to sabotage his own plan. Hitler also had so much duplication going on within the Nazi bureaucracy that in itself would have reduced the efficiency of the war effort.

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  87. Scott Chris (6,133 comments) says:

    A sad irony in that Kea is too stupid to realize that rounding on one particular sector of the community (‘socialists’ he calls them) and blaming them for all of society’s ills is precisely what Hitler did.

    Fact is, for most of us things have never been better, in part due to the efforts of the humanists Kea and his ilk so despise.

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  88. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    John J. Ray (M.A.; Ph.D.)

    That guy is a well known kook and self promoter. Try someone decent.

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  89. Reid (16,440 comments) says:

    It was Hitler that was the advocate for eastern expansion so why would he want to sabotage his own plan.

    Because the plan was to have Germany lose Gulag. That was the plan all along. Germany to Hitler (an Austrian) was like Russia was to Stalin (a Georgian) and was like France was to Napoleon (a Corsican). Someone once observed it’s curious how often the especially cruel leaders, are foreign to the country they rule over.

    The war would have ended differently if he hadn’t made either or both of those moves. Did he make them on purpose as part of a wider plan? Who knows. But if it was done like that then it explains a lot about why Israel does what she does, if you think it through.

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  90. Azeraph (604 comments) says:

    History can be accessed at the click of your mouse people. The creation of Israel was on the books for centuries, the British were hammered by Jewish guerrillas when they had Palestine. It was a foregone conclusion and it was foretold in the bible that god would lead his people home fulfilling his obligation to them but it also states he hasn’t finished chastising them. There is a funny quirk we humans get caught up in. We want it to happen in our lifetime, take for instance how some crazy evangelicals in the states make wild predictions when they are explicitly forbidden to by their faith yet they can’t help themselves and when these predictions don’t pan out they get lost in last minute heavenly communication that such has been cancelled due to last minute reprieve brought on by Gods reluctance to burn mankind.

    If you know Revelation then you know it’s very Jewish in nature, it’s at odds with how the rest of the new testament is written.

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  91. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I’ll admit that it’s not a scientific poll, but from my 3.31 comment we can see that Reid is approximately twice as crazy as Kea.

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  92. Dazzaman (1,140 comments) says:

    @Reid

    The Bible is very certain on the point that Satan is definitely held in check by the Lord, he cannot do anything outside the will of God, even though he (Satan) holds the non-title of “the God of this world”. He is limited, his authority & power are limited, he is effectively a creature not a creative omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent deity. Satan is not the god of the world while the Lord Jehovah/Yahweh is only the God of heaven. This dualistic view is not supported by the Bible. Satan is the father of lies & those who are NOT drawn by grace to willing submission to the Saviour Jesus Christ are effectively the children of the devil.

    They are in his hands by default due to their rebellious nature. The devil is already defeated by the sacrifice of Christ on the cross. God will carry out His purposes to draw a people out from amongst the rebels of the human race, which the devil cannot thwart one iota. The devil is playing a losing game….he knows it, I know it & other Christians know it….you obviously don’t know it.

    Masonic symbolism….ok. The Israeli Supreme Court, the layout of Washington DC, etc., etc. There’s no point to it, another petty man centered effort to usurp the lordship of Christ. God mocks them from heaven. They believe they’re playing the long game when in fact they’re just adding to their own sin & iniquity. Masons aren’t as influential as they would like to believe…..& nothing to do with true evangelical Christianity, their is no point to trying to synergise the two, they’re incompatible.

    Anyway, the idiot Hitler was an Austrian private likely suffering from syphilis, which could go a long way to explaining his “decisions”, who also thought he could run military campaigns over & above the trained military minds of seasoned generals. Opening the front with the Russians was folly but in hindsight not surprising considering the other batshit decisions he made which crippled his war effort.

    His effort to exterminate the Jews was….quite a “real” effort on his part. The opening of a 2nd front was stupid but not an effort by Hitler himself to cripple his own war effort in order to lose so Israel could then become a reborn sovereign state wherein the temple would be rebuilt & Satan could then destroy Israel. You overestimate his intelligence & underestimate the feelings of hatred towards Jewry that he had, which were held by him & many other Germans due to the exceedingly punitive reparations payments arising from WWI. The Jews being prominent, as always, in the financial sectors were an obvious scapegoat….as well as being perceived as “Christ killers”.

    Yes, none of your statements are “theoretical”, just tin foil hat stuff….Pak ‘n Save open at 8am tomorrow morning. You’ll need several rolls by the looks of it.

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  93. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    A sad irony in that Kea is too stupid to realize that rounding on one particular sector of the community (‘socialists’ he calls them) and blaming them for all of society’s ills is precisely what Hitler did.

    Fact is, for most of us things have never been better, in part due to the efforts of the humanists Kea and his ilk so despise.

    No, they called themselves socialists.

    These will be the same “humanists” directly responsible for the deaths of over 150 million people in recent years. The same humanists who have systematically terrorised, tortured and oppressed many millions more. Do you really have any idea what your defending ! Have you any idea what has been done in socialist countries and is still happening NOW ?

    What are you thinkning trying to defend that and give them the credit for today’s society. Fuck you.

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  94. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    As I recall, the usual defining characteristic of the holocaust which distinguishes it from other mass murders or attempts at genocide is the cold and systematic organization of it all

    Yet another brain fart from someone who should know better. Or maybe he is just making stuff up in order not to labeled a “denier”, which is what most of you are doing. I see little evidence of anyone knowing what they are talking about.

    Concentration camps were created in the Soviet Union shortly after the 1917 revolution, but the system grew to tremendous proportions during the course of Stalin’s campaign

    http://gulaghistory.org/nps/onlineexhibit/stalin/

    People who complain about the German concentration camps in WW2, rarely complain about the very much larger Soviet Gulag camps, which Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (in his magnum opus The Gulag Archipelago,paperback edition, vol 2 p 79) describes as being under the control of the Jew Matvei Berman, the “Chief of Gulag”.

    http://rense.com/general84/germl.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

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  95. ChardonnayGuy (1,206 comments) says:

    According to Sir William Shirer (Rise and Fall of the Third Reich), the reason Nazi Germany collapsed was (a) Hitler was suffering from advanced syphilitic complications during the latter phases of the war (b) there was profound infighting between the SS, the Gestapo and other factions of the Nazi state (c) they should have learnt from Napoleon and never invaded the Soviet Union until they were ready, instead of which they launched Operation Barbarossa in 1941.

    As for Stalin, yeah, he was an utter anti-Semitic bastard and murderous totalitarian himself. No-one sane and sensible would deny that. He committed his own share of crimes against humanity, but never resorted to planned, systematic genocide of ethnic minorties. That is what makes Nazi Germany a dark paradigm and template for genocides thereafter.

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  96. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Well, at least there is no outright denial on this thread – just some idiotic comparisons with other genocides, sweeping generalisations about ‘socialism’, and some odd ideas about why Germany lost the war.
    Good light entertainment.

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  97. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    He committed his own share of crimes against humanity, but never resorted to planned, systematic genocide of ethnic minorties.

    Even if that statement were true , so what ?

    It makes little difference why someone is killed. You are attempting to say that killing someone for being a jew, is somehow worse than killing them for their political, cultural or religious beliefs. Please explain your reasoning ? Why is killing someone for being Muslim, less wrong ? Why is killing someone for making unfavourable remarks about the leader less wrong ?

    If you want to quantify evil, then the holocaust is not even in the top five. It is ridiculous to compare it to what socialists have done in Eastern Europe and China. Official records are now being released about what went on. I encourage you to do some research.

    mikey, you are a coward. You deny the known history of your own ideology. Playing with words and casting insults will not hide that fact. You attempt to minimize the deaths of tens of millions and you should be treated with contempt by any decent minded person.

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  98. Sam Buchanan (501 comments) says:

    “If you want to quantify evil, then the holocaust is not even in the top five. ”

    Completely nuts.

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  99. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    Why nuts sam ?

    Have a look at what went on in Mao’s China and Russia. Read a bit of history and pull your head out of your arse. What about all the millions and millions of non jews who died in the holocaust. What about the other 70 million victims of WWII. ?

    Given all that, why are the deaths of 6 million (including non jews) so especially tragic ?

    Back up your statement, as I have backed up mine. You are just parroting the “holocaust was the greatest evil ” narrative without having done any checking to see what you could reasonably compare it to.

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  100. Sam Buchanan (501 comments) says:

    Why bother? I don’t particularly care what you think, and entering into a debate with you is just going to put me on the recieving end of insults and crass statements. I’d be happy to debate the issue with somebody respectful and in a more considered forum.

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  101. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    Sam, I am not sure what you are on about. There was no abuse in my reply (to your “nuts” post). So you just pretended there was ? Why Sam ?

    You can not dispute the points I have raised, so you make a personal attack. Dishonest insincere & cowardly.

    So here is some real abuse, which previously you did not get. You have attempted to minimise the deaths of over 150 million people and systematic torture and subjugation on many millions more. A horror that still goes on today in places like North Korea.

    It is not “holocaust deniers” we need to worry about, it is people like you.

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  102. Sam Buchanan (501 comments) says:

    Saying my head is up my arse isn’t an insult?

    And the rest of your response rather proves my point, doesn’t it?

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  103. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    Sam, you have been caught out. Be a man about it.

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  104. Sam Buchanan (501 comments) says:

    LOL!

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  105. Joy (1 comment) says:

    The Holocaust was not just about Hitler or the Nazis – or numbers or even the specific doctrine they used. It was a combination of all of this and more. In his famous and very poignant book, If This Is a Man, Italian-Jewish writer Primo Levi describes his own experience of Auschwitz – but even more importantly he describes the signs that combined to create the Holocaust – the disavowal of human solidarity, the callous or cynical indifference to the pain of others, the abdication of intellect and moral sense before the principle of authority, and primarily, at the root of it all, a flood of cowardice, an abysmal cowardice, which become masked by warlike virtues, patriotism and dogged determination towards one idea.

    Don’t we see some of these signs in our society and our world every day – an indifference to others, abdication of morals and deference to authority? Genocides and atrocities continue – Whether we count one as worse than another, every single one reflects as much on our inability to learn from history. Perhaps the bigger question is – are we actually capable of recognising the signs as they occur and what is the point at which they combine to become the perfect storm? And are we confident about when to speak up to stop it?

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  106. Naturesong (23 comments) says:

    Kea (1,919) Says:
    January 26th, 2013 at 10:50 am
    History has been tampered with and re-written. The Jews were not victims of fascism they were victims of socialism. Hitler was not just a socialist in name, but in policy and thinking.

    Actually not. While fascism is not exclusively the domain of the right wing, Benito Mussolini and his counter intuitively named National Fascist Party as an example, the Nationalsozialismus was. From WikiPedia: “It is a variety of fascism that incorporates biological racism and antisemitism. Nazism used elements of the far-right racist Völkisch German nationalist movement and the anti-communist Freikorps paramilitary culture which fought against the communists in post-World War I Germany. It was designed to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism. Major elements of Nazism have been described as far-right, such as allowing domination of society by people deemed racially superior, while purging society of people declared inferior which were said to be a threat to national survival.”

    If you wish to assert that socialist governments have been involved in genocide then Joseph Stalin is your guy.

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  107. Kea (12,788 comments) says:

    Naturesong, I did assert that and provided links. I am also well aware of the efforts the left have gone to distance themselves from the National Socialist Workers Party. Hitlers policies were left, regardless of what left wing apologists may say on Wiki. However, he was not the worst of the socialists, which was my point. A madman and a bad man, but not the worst. That honour goes to Mao I suspect.

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  108. ChardonnayGuy (1,206 comments) says:

    I am not denying that Stalin and Mao were mass murderers either, but please, let’s not play puerile numbers games about whether the Nazi Holocaust, Turkey’s Armenian genocide, Saddam Hussein’s chemical warfare against the Kurds and Shia Iraqis, Rwanda, Serb atrocities in Bosnia/Herzegovina, or the starvation of millions during Stalinism or Maoism were ‘worse’ than one another. All of them were gross crimes against humanity and their totalitarian and authoritarian perpetrators were monsters. In any case, what about Milosevic, Mladic and the other Serbian butchers in the Balkans? Some post-communist nationalists are no better than the communists that they superceded- in fact, in that case, they were a damned sight worse, engaging in genocidal ‘ethnic cleansing’ and religious persecution.

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  109. ChardonnayGuy (1,206 comments) says:

    Wow. You mean there are actually contributors to Stormfront who can spell properly, David?! :)

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  110. Jimmy Smits (246 comments) says:

    Test:

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