Interracial marriage

January 28th, 2013 at 12:00 pm by David Farrar

marriageT

This graph is from Stats Chat. It’s amazing how much views have changed over 50 years. In 1958 only 4% of Americans approved on interracial . That implies both a majority of white and black Americians were against interracial .

The poll is from 2011, but I was fascinated enough by the chart to look up the source data. As Stats Chat pointed out, still a bit alarming 14% don’t approve of interracial marriage, but what I found interesting was the breakdown of the approval rate by age. It was:

  • Under 30s 97%
  • 30 to 50 91%
  • 50 to 64 88%
  • Over 65s 66%

So almost one in three Americans aged over 65 disapprove of interracial marriage. Very interesting when you consider the opposition in NZ to same sex marriage is primarily (but of course not exclusively) over 65s.

 

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94 Responses to “Interracial marriage”

  1. pq (728 comments) says:

    boring farrar

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  2. Redbaiter (7,522 comments) says:

    Interracial marriage between a man and a woman has nothing to do with redefining traditional marriage.

    This is just cheap liberal bullshit.

    [DPF: I disagree. The point is that there has been a massive change in opinion of the acceptability of interracial marriage over the last 50 years, and I believe we are seeing the same change with same sex marriage]

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  3. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    Ah, soften us up. This change is positive. It’s progressive. It’s good. (ergo all change is good). There must be another post on the redefinition of marriage just around the corner.

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  4. Pete George (22,734 comments) says:

    A perfectly valid point that shows that attitudes to conventions on marriage evolve over time.

    As people become more enlightened they are likely to be more tolerant and accepting of others being able to choose for themselves rather than frown on something they have been brought up to see as unacceptable.

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  5. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I know some outspoken Maori advocates who do not approve of mix marriages.

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  6. eszett (2,331 comments) says:

    On that note:

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  7. Pete George (22,734 comments) says:

    Approval is not the issue. I wouldn’t approve of some mixed marriages – for example I wouldn’t approve of my grandmother marrying Redbaiter, but that’s got nothing to do with me, it would be her decision to make, not mine or the state’s.

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  8. RRM (9,420 comments) says:

    George Takei had a good thing on his facebook page, about how when he first lived in California it was illegal for him to marry a white American… and today he is free to marry his white American boyfriend.

    (Even if you’re not interested in gay marriage George Takei’s Facebook page is worth following, he is a funny guy and there is some hilarious shit on there :-D )

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  9. Fox (201 comments) says:

    Quite a significant jump up in the mid 90′s from 48% to 64%. Would be interesting to find out what the catalyst for that was.
    Can Bill Clinton take any credit for that?

    Also of the 14% remaining opposed, it would be interesting to find out what proportion is white vs black.

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  10. scrubone (3,044 comments) says:

    The difference being that even when it was illegal, interracial marriage was still marriage. The problem with same-sex marriage is not that it’s banned, it’s that it doesn’t (and arguably can’t) exist.

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  11. mikemikemikemike (301 comments) says:

    Ill take a guess that in the 50′s not many if any non-whites were asked their opinion on anything let alone inter-racial marriages. So this post is a pretty sill attempt at trying to make change sound good. I’d wager that many in America were still getting used to the idea that African Americans should be classed as people let alone free thinking ones.

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  12. eszett (2,331 comments) says:

    scrubone (1,865) Says:
    January 28th, 2013 at 12:21 pm
    The difference being that even when it was illegal, interracial marriage was still marriage. The problem with same-sex marriage is not that it’s banned, it’s that it doesn’t (and arguably can’t) exist.

    Arguably it does (in 11 countries already), can and will exist.

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  13. Danny-boy (102 comments) says:

    The difference being that even when it was illegal, interracial marriage was still marriage.

    Um, no. If it was illegal, it wasn’t. Unless you subscribe to the theory of “la-la-la-marriage-is-whatever-I-say-it-is”, which it sounds like you probably do.

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  14. Chuck Bird (4,661 comments) says:

    There was an interesting video that homosexual activists here including Kevin Hague tried to have banned. It was called Gay Right/Special Rights – Inside the Homosexual Agenda. It show how many Blacks in America were very unhappy how the homosexual activists were trying to link these two separate issues.

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  15. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    How many white folk, who approved, would put their mortgage where their mouth is and actually live in a charming ,leafy ,quiet black suburb?

    No I didn’t think so.

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  16. Chuck Bird (4,661 comments) says:

    What has what some Americans think of interracial marriage got to do with homosexuals redefining marriage in New Zealand?

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  17. Manolo (13,316 comments) says:

    You’re mixing bananas with oranges, DPF. What is the correlation between interracial and gay marriage? None.
    You are doing the debate a weak favour by positing such absurdity.

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  18. eszett (2,331 comments) says:

    homosexuals redefining marriage in New Zealand?

    Lol, chucky. Does that then mean 80 MPs that voted for the bill are all gay? Or the 70% of the population that approve are all gay?
    Who would have thought?

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  19. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    What is the correlation between interracial and gay marriage? None.
    You are doing the debate a weak favour by positing such absurdity.

    The point, surely, is that exactly the same arguments used against interracial marriage are now being trotted out to justify opposition to gay marriage.

    “Gay Marriage Opponents Mimic Objections to Interracial Marriage…”
    http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/news/2004_fall/forde.htm

    And I quote: “Much of the opposition to interracial relationships was grounded in religious beliefs”

    What a surprise: religiously inspired bigotry and racism used to oppress civil rights. Plus ca change…

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  20. Redbaiter (7,522 comments) says:

    If 70% of the population approve why are your buddies at GayNZ so terrified of a referendum?

    I’ll tell you.

    Because they know that figure is bullshit underpinned by fake polls asking leading liberally biased questions including distorted references to “marriage equality”.

    “The point, surely, is that exactly the same arguments used against interracial marriage are now being trotted out to justify opposition to gay marriage.”

    Except they are not. Why can’t you argue honestly?

    And how many Christians died fighting to end slavery you bigoted mungbean.

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  21. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    This has to be the most superficial arguement in favor of gay “marriage” that there is.

    The reason why interracial marriage made or makes people uncomfortable is because they wish to preserve their own culture.

    In the early seventies there was a TV comedy called “Bridget loves Bernie”, the premise being a Jewish boy who married an Irish catholic girl. This show was cancelled eventually because it was seen as too controversial. Interstingly enough in that show the all round good guy character was a Catholic Priest, like that would happen in these enlightened times.

    See those of us who are parents want our eventual grandchildren to share our cultural values not those of the Wellington’s elites and that’s for sure. Thus to marry in our Church at least one of the spouses to be has to be Orthodox and the other at a minimum a baptised Christian who has to agree to raise the children in the Orthodox Faith.

    But none of this applies to so called “gay marriage” which is not about raising children (despite the blather that gays are just as good if not better at it than so called “straights”) nor about cultural transmission. In fact it is more about breaking the cultural transmission of the real parents of children to those children and interposing the degraded, debased ones of the urban, often childless, elites upon them.

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  22. eszett (2,331 comments) says:

    Ah, yes, red, of course, the your usual mo, if facts don’t suit you, then they must be fake.

    How do you know what “my buddies” at GayNZ think, I may ask? Are you there often? To do “research”, no doubt.

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  23. eszett (2,331 comments) says:

    And how many Christians died fighting to end slavery you bigoted mungbean.

    And how many died defending it?

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  24. eszett (2,331 comments) says:

    The reason why interracial marriage made or makes people uncomfortable is because they wish to preserve their own culture.

    Funny, seems to me that is exactly the reason why you are against gay marriage yourself, to preserve your own waning culture of prejudice, ignorance and bigotry.

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  25. Bob (478 comments) says:

    In Australia 60 years ago a white woman who married an aboriginal man or even had one as a boyfriend was looked down on. The attitude was what was wrong with her that she couldn’t get a white. As an Australian who has lived here for many years I was surprised at the easy mixing of the races when I first arrived.

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  26. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    And how many Christians died fighting to end slavery you bigoted mungbean.

    Of course, slavery is a great Christian institution.

    Slavery – including sexual slavery – is explicitly sanctioned in the Bible, which serves as an instruction manual for the slave owner:

    http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

    If I follow those instructions I am being a good Christian: A rapist perhaps; a kidnapper, certainly. But definately – by definition – a good Christian.

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  27. Redbaiter (7,522 comments) says:

    You just follow the dictates of your amoral progressive/ Hollywood masters and demagogues Halfwat, and let Christians follow the dictates they choose to.

    You don’t need to ask yourself which is the better course, because to finally understand that truth would probably cause you a brain hemorrhage.

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  28. Bob R (1,334 comments) says:

    Probably a combination of old biases, plus the 65′s probably haven’t been sensitised to the same extent by media images promoting these couplings.

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  29. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    George Takei had a good thing on his facebook page, about how when he first lived in California it was illegal for him to marry a white American… and today he is free to marry his white American boyfriend.

    Shows how good at lying progressives are.

    Claifornia’s anti-miscegenation law was struck down in 1948 and was never applied to Japanese Americans in any case. Interestingly enough there was a hollywood movie a sub plot of which involved John’s Wayne’s son, in the story, getting married to a Japanese American girl.

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  30. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Bob (355) Says:
    January 28th, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    In Australia 60 years ago a white woman who married an aboriginal man or even had one as a boyfriend was looked down on. The attitude was what was wrong with her that she couldn’t get a white. As an Australian who has lived here for many years I was surprised at the easy mixing of the races when I first arrived.
    —————————————-
    And to expand on that a bit Bob, that process began way back in Captain Cooks days. There were Maori men who sold their wife and children to the sailors for recreation in return for some axes and knives. (Down in the sounds.All in the Cook Journals if you want to read it up).
    Continued forever since. We have to say there was a huge effort put into diluting the races from both sides. So much so that today there is no full blooded non contaiminated Maori DNA. Not that we are allowed to find out as any attempts to trace these things has been declared off limits by the Taniwha Keepers. Indeed we are not even allowed to checkand see if they all eminated from the same place. (Which they didn’t).

    It amuses me that people like Turiana, who herself had an American white father claims to be Maori. Never figured out which half. John Hatfeild is the same and more than a few other roughcaste ‘s around the place. Denying ones history and birthright will not change it one bit.

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  31. Pete George (22,734 comments) says:

    …plus the 65′s probably haven’t been sensitised to the same extent by media images promoting these couplings.

    I think the main thing that has changed is that over the last two or three decades it’s been much more common for homosexuals to “come out” and be open about their sexual preference. As a result many more people have discovered that homosexuals are in many families, they are fellow students and fellow employees and fellow church goers and fellow sports people, they are ordinary people who happen to have different sexual inclinations to others.

    It has taken a few years but now that most intelligent people acknowledge homosexuals and transsexuals are mostly are normal people then they should be allowed normal marriage rights like the rest of us.

    Married people who pay for sex and have affairs are different to me, more different than homosexuals in commited monagamous relationships, but getting married is as much their right as it is mine.

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  32. Pete George (22,734 comments) says:

    PS – and fellow bloggers.

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  33. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    Married people who pay for sex and have affairs are different to me, more different than homosexuals in commited monagamous relationships, but getting married is as much their right as it is mine.

    LOL – Pete George earnestly regurgitating talking points again

    Mate the fact there are dysfunctional hetrosexual marriages does not imply that the so called gay ones will be “commited (sic) monagamous relationships” and therefore more virtuous.

    Actually most of the gays screeching for this have no intention of availing themselves of a gay “marriage” when they become available – the attraction here for them is “sticking it to the straights” as they say.

    Sure a few wealthy types in the public eye will do it, get a photo spread in the womens weekly and enjoy having a few days of breathless gushing media attention over their “nuptials” but there will be sfa gay “marriages” after the rush of the first in the first few years of this brave new thing.

    But the damage to real marriage will have been done and that is the intention of this

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  34. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    Red?

    http://i.imgur.com/hqrdapx.png?1

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  35. Redbaiter (7,522 comments) says:

    Anyone can play that childish game Halfwat.

    http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3pzv7t/

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  36. RRM (9,420 comments) says:

    http://blog.powershop.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/powershop-pope.jpeg

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  37. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    Red,

    It is indeed a fact that atheists know more about religion than theists.

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  38. Chuck Bird (4,661 comments) says:

    @Pete George

    “homosexuals in commited monagamous relationships”

    homosexuals in committed monogamous relationships is an oxymoron if I ever heard one.

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  39. Pete George (22,734 comments) says:

    “LOL – Pete George earnestly regurgitating talking points again ” is very funny coming from Andrei. You’re one of the biggest repeaters of talking points here, alongside Fletch and Redbaiter.

    “Actually most of the gays screeching…”
    - who is screeching?

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  40. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    ….very funny coming from Andrei. You’re one of the biggest repeaters of talking points here, alongside Fletch and Redbaiter.

    And what would those “talking points be”, my fine fellow? Quote some, engage the debate

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  41. Longknives (4,390 comments) says:

    Ha Ha someone mentioned George Takei..

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  42. Pete George (22,734 comments) says:

    Andrei, the simplest way to get a detailed list is to google: site:kiwiblog.co.nz Andrei

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  43. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    No Pete George, take something I have said and then show through logic and reason why you think that it is wrong.

    Do you think you can manage that all on your own?

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  44. Pete George (22,734 comments) says:

    Ok Andrei, not much time and that’s a bit of a diversion from your original claim but I’ll take the first two sentences you posted here today.

    This has to be the most superficial arguement (sic) in favor of gay “marriage” that there is.

    It doesn’t have to be. There could easily be a myriad of more superficial arguments, without even starting to argue whether this one is superficial or not (I don’t think it is).

    The reason why interracial marriage made or makes people uncomfortable is because they wish to preserve their own culture.

    That is a patently false claim.

    Certainly not everyone was or is uncomfortable with interracial marriage (especially those who married inter-race as happened extensively in New Zealand).

    And those who were and are uncomfortable will have undoubtedly have been for a variety of reasons, not just the single reason you suggested.

    You frequently make grandiose claims and sweeping statements that are often demonstrably false, inaccurate or unprovable.

    All done on my own.

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  45. thedavincimode (6,519 comments) says:

    But, is interracial marriage actually marriage?

    Let’s cross to Redbaiter at Westboro County Baptist …

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  46. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    Pete George

    This has to be the most superficial arguement (sic) in favor of gay “marriage” that there is.

    That is an introductory statement
    to

    The reason why interracial marriage made or makes people uncomfortable is because they wish to preserve their own culture.

    Followed up by a demonstration how people such as myself propagate our culture, beliefs and heritage by encouraging our own children to marry well, our own. Religious, rather than racial and inclusive in that if they go outside we encourage the new spouse who is becomeing part of our family to embrace the beliefs and customs of our family.

    Lucia will encourage her kids to marry Catholics and if they choose to marry non Catholics encourage those people to become Catholic.

    Middle class liberals might not like if if their daughter decides to marry a Black Power dude (on the other hand they are so perverse at times they migh take it as a badge of honour that shows how enlightened they are). The same people might be very unhappy with a member of Opus Dei as a potential son in law though.

    This is why Amish persist in the USA to this day as an identifiable people with their own language, Pennsylvania Dutch.

    There is nothing wrong with this except if you are an authoritarian lefty who wishes to remake society in his own image and there are groups of people who will resist you and your wacked out ideas and not go along with you.

    These are not concepts that are regurgitated from memos issued by Party central, they are ideas developed from living in a culture that is sometimes, even often hostile to my values, which is fine and has tried to impose its own values on my children which is not!

    A final thought as to why the “inter racial marriage”, “gay marriage” argument is specious is this. Not all States of the USA had laws against inter racial marriage but those that did had laws against “Anti-miscegenation” Do you know what that means? These are laws against mixing the races, which doesn’t happen when you get married but when you have children.

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  47. Griff (6,700 comments) says:

    According to the news for wing nuts West broro church cult are filthy Liberal Marxist scum.
    http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/fox_news_bikers_westboro.png

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  48. Pete George (22,734 comments) says:

    Andrei:

    Followed up by a demonstration how people such as myself propagate our culture, beliefs and heritage by encouraging our own children to marry well, our own.

    The impression I got was you were speaking as if for everyone, not just “people such as myself “.

    Who the heck is “encouraging our own children to marry well, our own”? When our children become adults they should decide on their own partner, not limited by the ‘encouragement’ of narrow minded parents.

    My parents had no say and fully supported my right to marry anyone I wanted to, even if not one of “our own”. Neither time I have been married have I limited myself to “our own”. My daughter hasn’t married one of “our own” and I welcome her husband as her choice and as some interesting diversity in the wider family.

    The vast majority of New Zealand marriages are probably mixed in some way or another.

    And it’s well known that progeny benefit from diversity. Inbreeding amongst “our own” is what is discouraged – by law.

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  49. Steve (North Shore) (4,490 comments) says:

    Gee I thought the post was about Interracial Marriage. Somewhere it got hijacked by the queers and anti queers with a buch of religious crap thrown in.

    Anyway, many years ago (late 60′s) at high School I was bullied for liking an Chinese girl. ‘Chink Lover’ they called me. I wish I had have been big enough to stand my ground, I could have had a pretty Asian girl for a Wife. (Oh, they had money too)
    Most of the guys who gave me shit were our peacefull natives, how supprising.

    Racism was no doubt passed down from parents who despised the hard working new New Zealanders

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  50. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    Steve,

    Poignant, but don’t you see that that’s the whole point?

    If you love someone you love them; whatever their race or gender.

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  51. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    Who the heck is “encouraging our own children to marry well, our own”? When our children become adults they should decide on their own partner, not limited by the ‘encouragement’ of narrow minded parents.

    The abilty for liberals to lie, even to themselves never ceases to amaze

    Mate, if your daughter turns up in your home with a unemployable tattooed thug, just out of prison are you really going to welcome him with open arms as a potential son in law? You might not be able to stop the nuptials but are you really going to give it your blessing? FFS

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  52. Steve (North Shore) (4,490 comments) says:

    wat,

    The hijacker was actually DPF. See the note in the second comment on this thread (Redbaiter) but hey, he owns the Blog :)

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  53. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    Anyway, many years ago (late 60′s) at high School I was bullied for liking an Chinese girl. ‘Chink Lover’ they called me. I wish I had have been big enough to stand my ground, I could have had a pretty Asian girl for a Wife.

    Her family most likely would have put a stop to it, New Zealand Chinese were pretty hard core about marrying with in their own, even arranged marriages until very recently, probably still do. Kids that married white people got a hard time or were even disowned

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  54. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    Mate, if your daughter turns up in your home with a unemployable tattooed thug, just out of prison are you really going to welcome him with open arms as a potential son in law? You might not be able to stop the nuptials but are you really going to give it your blessing? FFS

    Er, what’s that got to do with anything?

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  55. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    Big gay man, with big gay mustache, must be denied civil rights, or the world will end:

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  56. Steve (North Shore) (4,490 comments) says:

    Her family most likely would have put a stop to it, New Zealand Chinese were pretty hard core about marrying with in their own, even arranged marriages until very recently, probably still do. Kids that married white people got a hard time or were even disowned

    Wrong Andrei, I visited Chinamans Hill Farm many times and got on well with her parents, brothers and sisters. It was the ignorant and jealous Moaris who stuffed things up for me

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  57. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    Let’s discriminate.

    Let’s use the state to value one human life above another.

    http://life.time.com/history/world-war-ii-color-photos-from-nazi-occupied-poland-1939-1940/?iid=lb-gal-viewagn#1

    All you bigots. I invite you to look into the eyes of this harmless undesirable and explain why it’s perfectly acceptable for the state to discriminate.

    Again, let’s be clear, you are not “upholding family values”, you are using the state’s monopoly on violence to impose your own blinkered bigotry.

    The state decides Jews cannot marry pure Aryans and you go along with it.

    The state decides who can marry whom and you rejoice.

    Fucking ignorant statist bigots. All of you.

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  58. Other_Andy (2,262 comments) says:

    Apart from saying that the implied analogy is false and a good example of a logical fallacy, I am glad I am not spending too much time here anymore.
    It might be a coincidence but it looks like Kiwiblog’s daily menu still pushes the “gay marriage’, “LBGTQ(…whatever) rights” agenda employing the usual alinskyite tactics.
    I’ll come back when the owner of this blog understands the difference between ‘equal rights’ and Chomskyite activism and drops the tedious repetitive posts….
    Does it increases site traffic or, in case it doesn’t, do you like the Kiwiblog echo chamber?

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  59. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    wart dumdey

    WTf have the Nazis got to do with this…..any more than interracial attitudes (blah) has to do with bum “marriage”>

    BTW the state is constantly discriminating. There is no such thing as “equality”.

    That post of yours is nuts,are you sharing griff’s meds?

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  60. Reid (15,912 comments) says:

    The meme continues: that opposition to same-sex marriage is discwimination, just like wacism.

    I used to think your average conservative was by and large much, much more astute than your average lefty but the consummate ease with which this particular lefty social-engineering has passed completely under their radars has caused me to revise my opinion of those people downward, heavily.

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  61. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    Kea (1,926) Says:
    January 28th, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    You’re one racist bastard Kea!

    How dare you mock their Pakeha bloodlines!

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  62. Griff (6,700 comments) says:

    Noooo cow toes the pots mine, all mine I tell you.
    You should smoke a spliff or two. If you do enough your invisible friend may talk back to you. :lol:
    After all god created the herb of the field for the use of man.
    Ps
    The tall blond and bosomy neighbor just dropped of a box of steinies in return for some good neighbor help last week so it will not be pot driving me tonight.

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  63. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Azeraph. I am deeply offended. The best man at my wedding was partly Pakeha ! I do not judge people on the fact they are partly Pakeha, but on the content of their character.

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  64. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    The tall blond and bosomy neighbor just dropped of a box of steinies in return for some good neighbor help last week so it will not be pot driving me tonight.

    Oh this should be fun :)

    No one mention AGW !

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  65. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

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  66. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    I don’t know much about genetics but the more diverse the better the line. You can always sew a mongrel up but be forced to take the pedigree to the vet.

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  67. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    WTf have the Nazis got to do with this…..any more than interracial attitudes (blah)

    Everything.

    It’s not about racism, it’s about individual liberty.

    As soon as you start planning the perfect society you start identifying those who offend your sensibilities and who must be discriminated against.

    Those “Christians” here who fulminate against gay marriage: you are precisely the people who propelled the Nazis to power with their scapegoating of the Jews and their propaganda of how they despoiled society.

    Look into the eyes of this lady and explain why the state should discriminate against her:

    http://life.time.com/history/world-war-ii-color-photos-from-nazi-occupied-poland-1939-1940/?iid=lb-gal-viewagn#1

    Maybe she’s a Jew. Maybe she’s gay.

    It doesn’t matter.

    It’s none of your business.

    It’s none of the state’s business.

    You disgusting violent bigots. Fuck you and a your Marxist ‘perfect society.’ Do we have to wear uniforms?

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  68. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    As soon as you start planning the perfect society you start identifying those who offend your sensibilities and who must be discriminated against.

    Those “Christians” here who fulminate against gay marriage: you are precisely the people who propelled the Nazis to power with their scapegoating of the Jews and their propaganda of how they despoiled society.

    Nobody is discriminating against “gays”, that is spin, it is also absurd.

    For a marriage to occur it takes one of each gender, one male, one female and this is not an arbitary distinction because this creates the fundamental breeding unit which brings into being the new individuals to form the family. It is the formation of the family consisting of parents and their blood related children that provides the raison d’etre for marriage.

    If you deny a person the opportunity to form a bond with an opposite sex partner on the basis of race religion etc that would be descrimination. Gays either choose not to or cannot (depending on who you believe) marry someone of the opposite sex.

    If they cannot conform to the rules (which exist for a reason) then they cannot play – this is not discrimination

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  69. Redbaiter (7,522 comments) says:

    “you are precisely the people who propelled the Nazis to power with their scapegoating of the Jews and their propaganda of how they despoiled society.”

    There’s a guy up in the Northern Territory who wants to marry his pet crocodile. (Thankfully its female)

    Funny, but the government won’t sign off on this as a regular marriage.

    But don’t worry Halfwat, one day when the battle has been won, you can form a 21st century version of the Simon Wiesenthal Center and relentlessly hunt down those government officials who opposed it one by one.

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  70. SPC (5,334 comments) says:

    I suspect David Farrar’s point is that if the right does not move with the society, then the society moves away from the right.

    There being only so many old white people in the USA, but the younger demographic is changing. Just consider the concern with the Republicans at the moment about how to win federal contests.

    Given we have MMP, conservatives are free to leave the National Party on the issue. However they should realise they will be unable to determine votes by the majority of MP’s in the House even if they run their own party. Thus the “real politicking” of themselves and the would be politicians like Colin Craig would change nothing and can change nothing.

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  71. Griff (6,700 comments) says:

    Christians Worshiping their god

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  72. bhudson (4,734 comments) says:

    For a marriage to occur it takes one of each gender, one male, one female and this is not an arbitary distinction because this creates the fundamental breeding unit which brings into being the new individuals to form the family.

    Actually it’s a completely arbitrary distinction. Marriage itself is a completely arbitrary distinction (irrespective of the make up/gender of the participants.)

    Marriage has absolutely nothing to do with a breeding unit, let alone being somehow fundamental to it. Families can be, and often are, formed outside of marriage.

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  73. big bruv (13,210 comments) says:

    SPC

    There is no shortage of stupid people (of all colours) in the USA. The worst examples are those who still love Sarah Palin, Guns and Glen Beck. Having said that, the dumbest of all are the birthers.

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  74. Redbaiter (7,522 comments) says:

    Anyone can play that childish game Grief-

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_f5m7s0RssIU/TBK5MSLnhFI/AAAAAAAABJw/d-zi4xSiwLg/s1600/Imagine_atheism.jpg

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  75. big bruv (13,210 comments) says:

    Which one do you follow Red?

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  76. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    big bruv you dick .repeating the dumb Yank meme so prevalent in our shit media and on the left.

    Having said that ,the dumbest of all are the bruvvers.

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  77. Manolo (13,316 comments) says:

    I suspect David Farrar’s point is that if the right does not move with the society, then the society moves away from the right.

    I believe DPF is a progressive, who epitomises the liberal wing of the nowadays left-of-centre National Party.

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  78. Griff (6,700 comments) says:

    Ditto heads big bruv from the habit of becks fans saying ditto to any argument or statement no matter how stupid
    also known as tea baggers. For the obvious reason the Koch brothers balls!
    http://theweek.com/article/index/206405/the-billionaire-koch-brothers-tea-party-puppetmasters
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Teabaggers

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  79. big bruv (13,210 comments) says:

    Oh gee Kowtow, that’s not very nice.

    Care to tell me why you think that Beck, Palin, Birthers and Guns are so great?

    Or is it a religious thing?

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  80. Redbaiter (7,522 comments) says:

    “big bruv you dick .repeating the dumb Yank meme so prevalent in our shit media and on the left.”

    Forget it, he’s just a clueless repetitive ignorant troll.

    The kind of liberal loser that caved in to the left decades ago. We don’t need his kind.

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  81. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Griff (4,097) Says:
    January 28th, 2013 at 7:11 pm
    Christians Worshiping their god

    Griff overestimates the hold religion has on people. Increasingly religion is being rejected around the world in favour of science and evidence based models of reality :

    Only 37 of 194 nations signed the treaty that replaces the Kyoto Protocol, which expires December 31 – and several countries may withdraw their consent. That means the new agreement is legally non-binding and covers only at best 15% of global carbon dioxide emissions.

    http://www.masterresource.org/2012/12/doha-defeat-but-not-over/

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  82. big bruv (13,210 comments) says:

    And now Red is being nasty, how will I cope???

    Hey Red, while you were away did you manage to remember one of the “many victories” you have had in your ten year plus war against the left?

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  83. Griff (6,700 comments) says:

    We reddy
    We dont need a bunch of nutcase fascist idiots trying to stop the world because all this change to a rational society is to scary.
    Why look towards the fucked up USA for a direction of society FFS they major fail in all except money. GDP per capita and high nett income do not a worthwhile society make. Whether you conservonutters like it or not New Zealand is an example of society the yanks should be looking up to and copying. Including our more inclusive mmp voting system

    AGW denial is the most Moronic import from the USA. All it really is- a bunch of greedy c**ts that are happy future eating the next generations planet. The biggest joke of all is most of the organized denial traces back to the bastards that are screwing us for energy costs now.

    Classic teabaggers read the rational wiki entry it makes me crack up :lol:

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  84. Jack5 (4,568 comments) says:

    The notion of interracial marriage is suspect because of the flakiness of the concept of race, IMHO. If “race” is flaky, so is the concept of “interracial marriage”.

    However, suppose “race” is an accurate concept. Then the notion that children of “interracial” are always more robust than the children of non-interracial marriage is wrong.

    Azeraph posted at 6.54:

    the more diverse the better the line…

    That’s why thoroughbreds always get trashed in the big races, Azeraph.

    “Hybrid vigour” seems to be known as “heterosis” when the cross is between species rather than within a species.

    For example, this from Wikipedia:

    …Not all outcrosses result in heterosis. For example, when a hybrid inherits traits from its parents that are not fully compatible, fitness can be reduced.

    It’s common knowledge that hybrid vigour often, perhaps usually, declines in the second generation.

    Regardless, in within-same-gender “marriage”, no genes are exchanged in offspring. So in this sense it does not parallel standard marriage, which usually has as a major object, creating children by mixing genes from the two people in the marriage.

    As for sewing up mongrels rather than taking them to a vet. Most mongrels are great, but doubtless for many folk the fact that mongrels typically cost the owner nothing, while the pedigreed dog can cost thousands, is a factor in weighing up home treatment v. veterinarian treatment.

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  85. gump (1,474 comments) says:

    @Andrei

    Please stop telling lies. It’s very unchristian of you.

    The California Anti-miscegenation statute that was repealed in 1948 stated the “no license may be issued authorizing the marriage of a white person with a Negro, mulatto, Mongolian or member of the Malay race.”

    The three racial groups used by early ethnologists were the Caucasoids, Negroids, and Mongoloids. The Japanese are members of the Mongoloid group – so it is pretty obvious that whites and Japanese were forbidden from obtaining a marriage license in California.

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  86. emmess (1,367 comments) says:

    I am in an interracial marriage.
    I do not hold strong opinions either way about gay marriage.

    But when those in favour of gay marriage compare it to interracial marriage, it makes my blood boil.
    I find it extremely insulting.

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  87. Jack5 (4,568 comments) says:

    Banning marriages between people of supposedly different “races” was wrong and cruel.

    However, widespread differences continue round the world about who can marry whom. Consider arranged marriage to child brides in some Middle East and African countries.

    Severe and cruel disabilities are allegedly being caused to children in countries including Saudi Arabia to Pakistan where marriage to first cousins is the norm.

    Restricted bloodlines aren’t all bad, however. Maori spring from a few canoe loads of migrants, and tobacco and booze ravages excepted, they are typically robust, healthy, and as bright as the rest of us.

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  88. LabourDoesntWork (282 comments) says:

    Some rational reasons to oppose inter-racial marriage:

    - cultural differences within each side’s families
    - identity differences over non-shared heritage
    - disapproval of others, esp. immediate and extended family

    Some of the negative reasons that these may no longer matter as much:

    - less presence of cultural differences: we’re all just ipod-wearing big-tv watching consumers now
    - less cohesive, more fractured families
    - less value on marriage itself!
    - easier divorces, making at-risk relationship attributes (if only perceived) like mixed race less important. This would have led to greater opposition to it in the past, especially among women (my guess)

    It also seems clear that when people’s idea of “other races” is entirely different nationalities and cultures, as it would be moreso in the past, then it would be hard to imagine an interracial couple having much in common at all. Thereby inviting greater opposition to the idea.

    It’s a postmodern conceit that people in the past were less “evolved” on issues like race. There’s often more going on under the hood than we’re immediately aware of.

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  89. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Consider arranged marriage to child brides in some Middle East and African countries.

    Consider child rape in christian countries. This list starts at five years old. Note the cluster of ten year olds in North America, the biggest church goers of all. Also note the number of children giving birth in catholic countries.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_youngest_birth_mothers

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  90. LabourDoesntWork (282 comments) says:

    Also, despite greater support for interracial marriage, people continue mainly to seek marriage within their own ethnic group.

    I imagine that less meaningful relationships generally don’t involve as much concern over race: Sure, he might try a bit of that brown sugar but he’d never ever consider marrying it.

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  91. Jack5 (4,568 comments) says:

    Kea posted at 10.50:

    …Consider child rape in christian countries…

    Yes there has been appalling rape of children in Christian countries, notably by rogue Catholic priests.

    Yet most Christian countries’ treatment of children is light years ahead of the standard in fundamentalist Muslim countries, which continue to have genital mutilation of girls in North Africa and the Middle East, exclusion of girls from education (as happened previously in Afghanistan and will happen there again), and tolerated homosexual slavery of young boys (by Afghanistan war lords, before and since the Taleban).

    And the arranged child-bride business, especially to first cousins, occurs mostly among Muslims.

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  92. Jack5 (4,568 comments) says:

    Kea’s all for the lands where children’s rights don’t count.

    Worth recounting is a Kiwiblog post of his on November 13 commenting on Jackie Blue’s move to stop forced marriages of young girls in NZ:

    …This proposal is clearly an attack on vulnerable racial/cultural/religious minorities. The age of consent (if “consent” is even required) is far lower in many other cultures around the world. This is an example of Western “White” values being imposed on others… Who are we to impose our narrow Western views on law abiding minorities?

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  93. Redbaiter (7,522 comments) says:

    Kea has drunk the Marxist kool aid on religion in huge gulps.

    He’s hopeless, and continually firing into his own ranks.

    We can’t therefore use him.

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  94. Dazzaman (1,123 comments) says:

    Steve (North Shore), fuckin’ egg.

    Most of the guys who gave me shit were our peacefull natives, how supprising.

    Racism was no doubt passed down from parents who despised the hard working new New Zealanders

    Funny this….we, the “peacefull [sic] natives”, probably married the Chinese more than any other race in this country. And on the work thing, I never saw any pakeha’s in the spud paddock doing the hard yakka, they were in the tractor/truck seat the ballheads. We admired the Chinese though, they worked hard like us. They knew how to save & didn’t piss it up like us “peacefull [sic] natives” though…oh well.

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