McCarten on Coke

January 21st, 2013 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

writes:

Let’s face it, Coca-Cola markets sugar syrup mixed with water to teenagers, rotting their teeth, giving them spotty skin and making them fat.

This was the very point that the CEO was making. is responsible for 2% of the average person’s daily calorie intake yet are blamed for obesity.

On the fat issue, a Gallup poll found soda drinkers were not fatter than non soda drinkers.

Few pre-teens and teenagers can resist that siren call. It helps that once the sugar addiction kicks in, it can be as strong as tobacco dependency.

Liking something is not an addiction. I love it how it is never a person’s choice. It is always an addiction. One day we’ll read about clothing addictions, toy addictions, unning addictions etc.

A bottle of Coke a day will each month add more than a kilo of lard around a customer’s belly unless they can burn it off by putting in a run of 14 hours. No wonder obesity in our children is skyrocketing.

Let’s check that. It takes around 9,000 calories to put on a kg. Standard coke is 43 calories per 100 ml, so you need to drink 21 litres of coke a month or 700 mls a day.

But if you drink diet coke or coke zero, then you can drink lots more. It is 4 calories per litre, so if you drank a litre per day it would take over six years to put on a kilo of weight.

But regardless you tend to burn off 2,000 calories a day. What is important is your total calories consumed and exercised.  I’ve lost 21 kgs and I drink lots of diet coke or coke zero.

Milk is 600 calories per litre, or around 400 calories per 700 mls to compare it to Matt’s coke equation. Drink that much milk a day and you’ll put on even more weight than coke.

Blaming coke for obesity is like blaming “society” for child abuse. It ignores the role of the individual.

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69 Responses to “McCarten on Coke”

  1. BeaB (2,123 comments) says:

    Great to read good sense.
    Thankfully they seem to have stopped saying how bad it is coke costs less than milk.

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  2. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    Is your heading for this post a teaser for commentary on an article by McCarten DPF, or is “McCarten on Coke” a statement of fact?? :D

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  3. Longknives (4,753 comments) says:

    Ban Coca Cola scream the lefties!! Pathetic…

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  4. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    DPF, seriously, ditch the diet and zero – it will be slowing your weight loss. I kid you not. If you can switch to water, and get your caffiene via coffee, drunk black. If you value your bones at all, dumping the ‘diet’ anything with aspartame in it is a wise move.

    As a very smart man I know who takes cases like these in the US said, aspartame is to our generation what nicotine is to our parents.

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  5. Manolo (13,783 comments) says:

    I reckon the communist “was on Coke” when he wrote that rubbish.

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  6. Andrei (2,657 comments) says:

    Plain packaging with gruesome pictures on the way for coke and hamburgers.

    The real crime committed by tobacco companies, fast food companies and soft drink manufacturers is to have a successful capitalistic model for their businesses starting with a product people want to buy

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  7. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    In related news, Coke is more expensive in NZ than in 41 other countries that the Brits travel to.

    Coffee: 6th most expensive
    Beer: 6th
    Coca-Cola: 1st
    Wine: 3rd
    Water: 24thSuncream: 12th
    Cigarettes: 2nd
    Three-course meal: 3rd
    Source: Post Office Travel Money (United Kingdom).

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  8. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    Obviously none of the workers at the Coca Cola plant are members of Unite Union, because Matt would NEVER compromise the jobs of his members would he? Just like he’d never welch on his obligations to pay tax deducted from his employees to the IRD; oh, wait… :P

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  9. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    KS – I was going to go there. Haughty advice on calories, and naughty aversion to taxes :)

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  10. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    We all know that the combination of carbonated drinks and fast food = fat slobs.

    The next one will be rotten teeth. Ask any dentist and theyll tell you that sports drinks are eroding teeth almost as fast as dipping them in acid.

    All these processed foods and un-natural drinks isnt doing anything positive for our health. Yes – in theory theres not a lot wrong with Coke etc, but in reality they are a curse on society.

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  11. labrator (1,850 comments) says:

    DPF, seriously, ditch the diet and zero – it will be slowing your weight loss. I kid you not. If you can switch to water, and get your caffiene via coffee, drunk black.

    Seconded. Artificial sweeteners upset your body’s metabolism.

    If you want to drink Coke, drink ‘full’ Coke. If you want to look after your body then drink water, coffee or green tea.

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  12. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Totally agree. Addiction is a cop-out. Except in the case of smoking.

    Genetics are the biggest factor in rotten teeth. And an unfluoridated water supply.

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  13. nasska (11,534 comments) says:

    Monique

    There’s not much taken in moderation that the body can’t handle be it Coke or chocolate cake….it’s the excesses that kill us.

    There’re too many Nanas banging on about how addictive smoking is too…..if you want to give up you will.

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  14. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “A bottle of Coke a day will each month add more than a kilo of lard around a customer’s belly unless they can burn it off by putting in a run of 14 hours.”

    I love this bullshit logic. Its what the fat loss tv shows do. “you can have that moro but youll need to run 5 miles” etc etc

    reality is a 100kg dude burns about 3000 odd calories a day by just waking up and doing no exercise.

    as for diet coke and weight loss. you will lose more weight if you cut fake sugar. but shit happens!

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  15. labrator (1,850 comments) says:

    Addiction is a cop-out. Except in the case of smoking.

    Considering sugar “affects opioids and dopamine in the brain”, it has all the qualities of an addictive substance, including withdrawal.

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  16. Reid (16,473 comments) says:

    If you value your bones at all, dumping the ‘diet’ anything with aspartame in it is a wise move.

    Yes aspartame is a neuro-toxin. The FDA banned it until Rumsfeld who used to be CEO for the company that makes it called in some markers and got them to authorise it back in the 80’s.

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  17. Kleva Kiwi (289 comments) says:

    “barry (1,121) Says:
    January 21st, 2013 at 11:34 am
    We all know that the combination of carbonated drinks and fast food = fat slobs.

    The next one will be rotten teeth. Ask any dentist and theyll tell you that sports drinks are eroding teeth almost as fast as dipping them in acid.

    All these processed foods and un-natural drinks isnt doing anything positive for our health. Yes – in theory theres not a lot wrong with Coke etc, but in reality they are a curse on society.”

    I’ve been drinking about 600mls +++ of coke a day for over 25 years. I have all my teeth, and they are in perfect health. I have no fillings and no sign of decay. Coke dosn’t rot your teeth. It is an old wives tale. Poor dental hygene does however. Oh and I’m no fat slob at a healthy 77kg.

    Here are some facts for you:
    Milk has more calories than coke.
    Orange juice has more sugar than coke
    Citris based drinks/fruit is full of citric acid, a prime source of tooth enamal decay. Any dentist will tell you this.

    Fast food and fizzy drinks are not a curse on society. We all have free choice and individual responsibility in this country, its about time some people started exercising it!

    If there is any curse on society in NZ atm it is the Left!

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  18. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    Reid, I read all about this shit years ago, and confirmed it with friends of mine, sports science, nutrition, legal etc etc who know what they are talking about.

    Aspartame is the dirty little secret that will bite my generation in the next 20 years. Avoid that shit like the plague.

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  19. Reid (16,473 comments) says:

    Reid, I read all about this shit years ago, and confirmed it with friends of mine, sports science, nutrition, legal etc etc who know what they are talking about.

    Careful hk, some appallingly ignorant people filled with cognitive dissonance might accuse you of propagating a “conspiracy theory” rather than a real and actual fact. In their braying hubris they might even go and google a website or two that “debunks” the “myth” and triumphantly proclaim in their infinite folly that this settles the matter once and for all.

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  20. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    @KrazyKiwi,

    ????? I used to pay no more than $2.00NZD/ 1.5l for Coke in NZ at the Albany Pak n Save, at Coles in Oz I can never find it for less than $2.80 AUD/ 1.5l. How much is it in NZ now?

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  21. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Bevan, yeah I was surprised that we ranked the most expensive. I suspect the survey was on bar/restaurant drink prices, rather supermarket. I don’t touch the stuff so not really up on pricing. Ask me about wine and I have chapter and verse!

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  22. tvb (4,425 comments) says:

    Cut back sharply on sugar and drink water. Coke is bad. But get rid of those sugary soft drinks out of the supermarket. Or price them out of reach with a huge excise tax on sugar. But McCarten is highly predictable when he tries to blame a health issue on some multi national.

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  23. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    Bevan – don’t shop at Coles! It’s the most expensive supermarket out there.

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  24. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    DPF, stay off those sweet drinks mate. There is lots of research showing how harmful they are.

    Though I find it hard to preach to a guy who lost 21 kg ! Good on you :)

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  25. itstricky (1,836 comments) says:

    Err possbly one should point out that the article is not about banning coke or retricting choices. But don’t let that get in the way of a DPF fuelled rant (again). Sigh

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  26. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    Here is a very interesting Lecture:

    Watch “The Skinny on Obesity” with Dr. Lustig: http://www.uctv.tv/skinny-on-obesity
    Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology, explores the damage caused by sugary foods. He argues that fructose (too much) and fiber (not enough) appear to be cornerstones of the obesity epidemic through their effects on insulin. Series: UCSF Mini Medical School for the Public [7/2009] [Health and Medicine] [Show ID: 16717]

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  27. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    Reid,

    I have no qualms admitting to ignorance on the subject. I’m no expert on the matter and so I will rely on trusted sources of information from which to form my opinion. There is more than a “website or two” that appear to regard the supposed dangers of aspartame to be based on myths or unproven claims. Wikipedia is indeed full of references to material that contradicts claims of danger. Countries around the world have also approved aspartame for distribution. The only logical conclusion is that if aspartame is dangerous then there must be some sort of conspiracy occurring to hide the truth (but not from a wise few such as yourself).

    It’s important to note that just because something is a conspiracy doesn’t mean it isn’t true. You could be right. But surely you must acknowledge that what you are advancing is indeed a conspiracy theory widely discounted by many. That much one can discern from a quick Google search. That being the case surely you should present a convincing case to support your theory. The supposed all encompassing power of one Donald Rumsfeld is hardly convincing.

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  28. Kimble (4,440 comments) says:

    Err possbly one should point out that the article is not about banning coke or retricting choices. But don’t let that get in the way of a DPF fuelled rant (again). Sigh

    Lets face it, itstricky is a known beneficiary fraudster and has stolen money from confused pensioners and the terminally ill. But that’s not what this post is about so he cant address that lie.

    This post is about how it doesnt matter what else is said in a post, if it contains a blatant untruth it is perfectly fair to point that out without addressing anything else.

    Lets see how hypocritical itstricky is.

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  29. simo (150 comments) says:

    I would like to be constructive here. $156,000 misappropriated from NZ taxpayer. I bet the evil capitalists product is in the UNITE lunchroom fridge eh. Fricking leftie hypocrite. Matt needs a small black tash under his nose…….then the real monster will appear if he ever got near treasury benchs

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  30. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    Actually Simo; McCarten’s misappropriation was not from the NZ Taxpayer. It was actually misappropriation from his own employees; he deducted PAYE, Kiwisaver, Student Loan and other deductions, but instead of passing the money on to IRD as he is legally required to do, Unite Union retained it, over a period of 18 months.

    Had any employer of Unite members behaved in such a scurrilous manner, McCarten would have been well justified in kicking up a huge stink; it is a gross abuse of the employer/employee relationship. That a union and its leader did that to their own staff members is almost beyond belief; not to mention absolutely hypocritical.

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  31. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    dime- you say a 100kg bloke burns 3 000 calories a day doing nothing.

    The online calorie calculators say a 100kg bloke that does nothing will burn around 2 400 calories per day. I used 100kg, male, 36 and 6’2″. Height doesn’t make a huge huge difference either though.

    I used to be 98-100kg up until Oct 2012. I’m now 80-82kg. Exercise three times per week and I can take in 2 460 around calories. Exercise everyday and it’s more like 2 930. From what I see, the level of physical activity is a factor big enough to wipe out weight differences.

    And then of course… what’s the body fat % of the 100kg bloke? I was that weight and lost around 18kg. I was overweight. I’d like to know what % of 100kg blokes are simply overweight?

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  32. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    Yeah, its funny isnt it KS (sorry for the slight hijack) that Red Matt goes on about the evil capitalists, and the flawed decision making of employers etc etc. I was reminded of this over the weekend when talking with my accountant – whom I married – about tax payments. She was ranting about the amount of tax I pay, and saying we should ‘hide’ some. I reminded her that not only was that morally wrong, it potentially carried a jail term, but that I would visit her :)

    The left, Matt included, rant about the evil right. And yet this utter hypocrisy passes almost without comment. You will forever be tarred with this brush McC, you utter hypocrite – you sit in jdgement on the morals of others, and have none yourself. Pot, Kettle, Noir.

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  33. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    left right – i knew it was somewhere around there..

    whats your definition of overweight though? 20% body fat?

    id say 80% of 100kg dudes are carrying a bit much weight. not like a scary amount. but most of my buddies who are a hundy would rather be 90ish.

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  34. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Congrats to David Farrar for losing 21kg…. that’s a great achievement. What’s the context though? More to go or is that it I assume?

    I largely agree with the thread header.

    I also drink Coke Zero…. a bottle at a time for me. It’s brilliant… effectively no energy value. I can’t taste the difference. I couldn’t tell you if it was Zero or Pepsi Max either. I just know it’s damned good. Always nice after a run and I drink it from a wine glass for ‘sophistication’…. haha

    Milk… my green cap Pam’s Extra Trim milk states 154kj/ 100 mls…. use trim milk… (calories divided by 4.18= calories) 36.8 calories/ 100mls… 368 calories per litre.

    BeaB- That annoys you too? I’m with you mate.

    Aspartame- I hope Reid and hmmokyeahwhatever are wrong. It’s the only bloody good thing you can put away guilt free.

    kleva kiwi- You’re 100% right. That’s why I don’t touch fruit juice/ orange juice etc and I had to switch to green milk and slash and burn it’s awesome beauty from my diet to far from satisfying proportions. Do you know how *fucking* that was/ is?

    It was a sad sad sad day when I realised with this thought ‘oh no- the milk I drink racks up huge calories and is part of why I’m overweight’ and knowing that it would somehow have to be cut down. It was like taking away a kids toys at xmas. Being a prolific tea with milk drinker… I refuse to give it up. Just use as little milk as possible.

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  35. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    left right – i prefer blue milk. slightly more fat but less sugar. more calories but the taste is well worth it. hate that green tinged crap.

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  36. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    dime-

    Well like everything else mate that’s a can of worms right there, eh? What’s overweight exactly?

    My idea of overweight based on what I’ve looked at on the internet? Speaking for myself… I decided that the BMI wasn’t horseshit and I used that. 100%. I’m 6’0″… BMI is saying ‘if your weight falls in the 60-80kg range, you are most likely a healthy weight for your height’. So if I wake up weighing 80kg… I’m happy because I’m not overweight according to the BMI.

    Then there’s the old visual clues of course…. I thought mine was mainly the floppy fat gut rolls… but it turned out I was quite puff-faced too. Now my face has thinned out and hollowed. I reckon it looks sleek now.

    All of the info about healthy body fat %s is easily looked up on the net. What annoys me is that it’s not a number that you can measure easily like jumping on the scales.

    Like… I’ve got no idea what my body fat % is. Only a rough guess. All I know is…. *I look and feel 100% better than I did around Oct 2*. Tell you what… try doing a bit of weightlifting at home 5 days a week for a few months and then draining off 18kg of fat. I look a tiny bit like the anatomy picture of the bloke with the skin removed and the muscle underneath… hahahaha. Great fun!! I sure do miss not caring too much about what I eat. It’s one or the other eh? Food or figure. Or Food figure and a marathon plus a 10km run on a Sunday when you overeat in my case.

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  37. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    dime-

    I’m with you- I prefer light blue myself. I don’t need the dark blue.

    You’ve hit upon the classic food vs figure. You prefer the taste of the higher calorie option. And that’s what people find generally. You’ll always want something that’s got more calories in it. It’s hard-wired in.

    I was very very depressed about my weight and Although I refused to give up milk in tea… I switched to green milk. I really liked knowing it had less calories in it.

    It’s watery bullshit… I know I know… I really do. I get ya. It’s shit. Well… it’s ok. I don’t care because it’s a compromise for me to still have some form of milk and keep the energy down. If you’re hell-bent on losing weight like I was… you’ll do anything mate. Anything. Except give up tea. That’s where I drew the line… haha

    Less sugar? The sugar in milk comes from the milk itself… what’s it called? Lactose? Less sugar in blue top? Didn’t know that.

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  38. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    BMI is bullshit. Im naturally built like a brick shit house. if you stripped every ounce of fat off me id still be overweight according to that thing.

    if something is reduced fat its almost always increased sugar.

    have you tried kettlebells? buy a 20kg one. great workout!

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  39. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    I’ve always been slim and near the top of the ‘normal’ BMI range, but as detailed below it has limitations. I have high bone density and sink like a stone.

    How accurate is the BMI?

    The BMI is a useful measurement for most people over 18. But there are limitations to this system. For instance:
    – Adults with a very athletic build (eg, professional athletes) could show as overweight. This is because muscle weighs more than fat and the BMI does not take this into account.
    – If you’re pregnant, the BMI does not apply.
    – You should seek advice from your doctor or midwife on what a healthy weight is.
    – See your doctor if you require a more precise reading.

    What do the numbers mean?

    Underweight = <18.5
    Normal weight = 18.5–24.9
    Overweight = 25–29.9
    Obesity = BMI of 30 or greater

    http://www.heartfoundation.org.nz/healthy-living/losing-weight/bmi-calculator

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  40. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “dumping the ‘diet’ anything with aspartame in it is a wise move.”

    Quite surprising how ignorant many are on aspartame. Very toxic and as dangerous as fluoride.

    Interesting tooth paste manufacturers are raising levels of fluoride and councils are adding fluoride.

    Because even in this modern era the ignorance on toxins like aspartame and fluoride is astounding.

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  41. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Pete George-

    1kg of fat weights the same as 1kg of muscle. You are trying to say they have different densities. It’s not that big a difference either. Muscle takes up something like 90% the volume of fat.

    If you’ve grown your muscle cells through muscle hypertrophy…. ie… you’re a serious gymrat… then yeah…. the BMi was never intended for that purpose. Weightlifters/ bodybuilders go by body fat % to know where they stand. So do that then mate.

    BMI is still useful. It’s not a total write-off whatsoever. You look around your community and what do you see…. a shitload of fucking overweight disgusting fat cunts…. heh. It’s not the BMI that’s wrong mate…. have a look at all the excess FAT on these motherfuckers. They’re the ones who are wrong!!

    High bone density? I’m going to have to look up what effect if any different bone densities have on weight. The human skeleton doesn’t weigh that much so my instinct is that that’s a load of old cobblers but anyway…

    Sink like a stone? Swimming ability? I would too… I can’t swim. At any weight I would sink… and I did try lessons too so from experience…. haha

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  42. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    Coke vs milk:

    In the thread header David does a wee drink that much milk instead of Coke and you’ll put on more weight etc….

    I think most people would acknowledge that soft drinks are a product that people are more likely to consume in large quantities compared with milk. I’d say milk is seen as less of a ‘drink’ than soft drinks are. Not nearly as many people would buy a fw bottles of milk to take home and drink all the time. So even though standard milk (not trim just quietly) has a higher kj rating, I’d guess and it’s guessing…people drink less milk than people who drink soft drinks.

    Generally speaking/ overall that it. You could break that down quite a bit more obviously.

    So although true..blue/ light blue milk has a higher kj value… that comparison ignores people’s actual total calorie intake habits from milk or soft drinks. I hear that Fonterra are currently working on ‘Milk Zero’… hahahaha. I can’t wait for ‘flavoured milk zero’. Mmmmm….chocolate, strawberry, vanilla and banana… oh wow…

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  43. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    The mirror is the best way to figure out if youre fat :D

    youd have to be in some serious, homer simpson like denial for a mirror not to work

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  44. Left Right and Centre (2,979 comments) says:

    haha… true true…

    The mirror works well. Now how do I lose weight to make myself a pretty face like Brad Pitt?

    The mirror just told me ‘you’re on your own there pal’.

    Even Homer gets in shape in some episodes to make a good storyline… and Marge becomes a bodybuilder in one after being mugged….

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  45. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    labrator points out:

    Considering sugar “affects opioids and dopamine in the brain”, it has all the qualities of an addictive substance, including withdrawal.

    Indeed it does – just watch someone who consumes gallons of Coke and sugary foodstuffs go “cold turkey” as a friend of mine did (and failed, despite having the discipline to become a karate black belt) and it’s evident even without the scientific studies.

    There’s a tendency amongst many on KB to want to blame some inherent weakness or failing in others for every problem they face, as though only by denigrating others as worthless can they feel superior, and thus validate themselves. Unfortunately in almost every case there is research which debunks their view, yet the next time we’re talking anything that involves an addiction, out comes the “it’s weakness, I tell you!” brigade.

    I’m fortunate not to have an addictive personality, and took very little added sugar anyway (a couple of teaspoons in tea or coffee) so when I decided to quit, I could… though of course I still get fed kilos of the stuff through bread and a host of other products that contain it, despite reading the labels of everything I buy in the supermarket.

    Other people with addictive personalities seem to attach to anything that gives them a dopamine boost. I’ve lost count of the number of scrawny drug addicts I’ve seen go into jail and, deprived of their drug of choice, spend all their weekly “spend” plus any money deposited by family on chocolates and Coke, and leave jail three or four times the weight they went in with.

    If someone discovered a way to check dopamine levels and easily top them up without side effects – a bit like we do the oil in our cars – there’d be a stunning reversal in both crime and obesity statistics.

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  46. nasska (11,534 comments) says:

    Rex

    Has much research been done on “addictive personalities” as a driver of crime? I’ve met a few people who seem to latch on to anything going around & if they are deprived of one habit they switch almost immediately to something else. Opiates, alcohol, tobacco, glue, dope…..anything including sugar as you instanced above.

    Most of them are pitiable creatures but the “ban everything & pray to God” idiots use the trouble the addicts get into to push for bans on everything that could possibly afford a little light relief or relaxation to the rest of us.

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  47. Viking2 (11,471 comments) says:

    Just cannot imagine why anyone with any taste buds left would seriously want to drink the stuff. Its flavour is appalling. Why would you do that to yourselves? eh.

    Mind you the shite from Pepsi is even worse.

    And, neither make good drink mixers these days either.

    Have more respect for your health and dignity.

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  48. labrator (1,850 comments) says:

    rex:

    If someone discovered a way to check dopamine levels and easily top them up without side effects – a bit like we do the oil in our cars – there’d be a stunning reversal in both crime and obesity statistics.

    Endorphines and adrenaline are prime candidates. Getting a high from exercise is something we should encourage from a young age.

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  49. Fletch (6,395 comments) says:

    Totally agree about Aspartame. It’s poison. It actually came about when scientists were looking for a medicine to combat stomach ulcers. A scientist mistakenly tasted it and found it to be sweet – the story goes on from there.
    It doesn’t help you lose weight. The body can’t rid itself of the chemical – it turns into formaldehyde and is stored in the fat cells.

    I only found out about it years ago when a woman rang a radio station to chat about sugar. The woman and her husband were diabetics and so took “diet” everything. The woman found she was packing on the pounds and her husband had a wound on his leg that wouldn’t heal. They stopped taking the stuff – her husband’s wound healed, and the woman herself began losing weight.

    For more info visit Dorway.com, the brainchild of a man who is now dead but spent the last years of his life collecting info on the stuff.

    If you want stuff with artificial sweetener, use the products with Stevia. It’s a natural leaf and doesn’t have the bad side effects.

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  50. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    nasska asks:

    Has much research been done on “addictive personalities” as a driver of crime?

    Yes… and no. Most of the research is on the correlation between addiction and criminal offending, which is of course incredibly high. The causation is assumed… I need money for drugs so I rob you… and while that’s broadly correct, there’s not enough (in my very humble opinion) done on intervention prior to offending.

    And that’s because such interventions don’t only not generate votes, in many cases they would be likely to result in a large vote against the proponents; things like safe injecting rooms, state provision of heroin (not methadone, which is a nasty, even more addictive substitute) and so on.

    Getting back to sugar, I do some work in an Aboriginal community where a quarter of a watermelon costs over $10 (I took photos to prove it to incredulous city dwellers) while Coke is the same price as anywhere else. There is no coffee bar or juice bar or sandwich shop or supermarket in the town, just the “General Store” with its outrageous monopoly prices, so I drive past the service station at 8am to see adults and children breakfasting on Coke, fried chicken and chips.

    Yes they could get organised, car pool to the supermarket, buy the slightly cheaper healthy options (still dearer than the city and much moreso than junk food) but the problem isn’t just those practical things… they all tell me the pies and Coke taste better than cereal. And damnit they do, because they’re engineered that way by, amongst other bad things, the addition of large quantities of processed sugar.

    It’s blindingly obvious the issue is a complex mix of addiction, habit, lack of choices, lack of education about right choices (for the adults at least) economic factors and yes, laziness. But simply yelling “stop eating that s**t, you weak willed losers” is not going to make one iota of difference to the problem, which needs to have all the factors addressed at once – just like crime.

    If anyone thinks weak will is the primary cause, I invite them to come spend a holiday up there with me. Every time the local kids see my 4WD parked at the house now, there’s a bang on the door. The first time I opened it and saw a gang of them there I figured I’d be asked for money or a lift somewhere (which is invariably what the adults want when they call).

    Instead they said “Mister, you got any fruit?”. I’m ashamed to admit my first thought was that they wanted me to open the security door so they could run through the house thieving, but I took a chance, went and got a bag of oranges and opened the door. They fell on the fruit like it was the most precious thing on earth, thanked me and left. Whenever I travel to the supermarket now, I buy extra fruit.

    Millions of dollars goes into Aboriginal communities, but as far as I know no one simply drives a truck full of fruit in and opens the tray. Yet the potential that one action would have to change lives seems, at any rate, immense…

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  51. itstricky (1,836 comments) says:

    Kimble,

    Lets face it, itstricky is a known beneficiary fraudster and has stolen money

    Sigh, again. Pretty typical example of what I was on about i.e. the first four or five vommiting out “the commies are banning coke” comments before they’d even thought it through.

    But past that there are some very good, articulate points made in this thread about the subject of addiction and weight loss/gain that are very interesting.

    if it contains a blatant untruth it is perfectly fair to point that out without addressing anything else

    What, you mean the coke versus milk calorie thing? Surely not?

    (a) Coke is purely sugar (or chemicals for the diet stuff). Coke has no nutritional value. Milk does.
    (b) Coke causes dental issues. Milk doesn’t. Well, at least I don’t think it does. I imagine all the calories in milk are fat, not sugar.
    (c) Nobody sits down and sculls a litre of milk each day. People do that with Coke.
    (d) Sugar is an addictive substance that is easy to market to teenagers. It’s much harder to market heroin to teenagers. Market milk to teenagers?
    (e) I don’t imagine milk has put people into hospital before. I do imagine that Coke has. Think about all those taxpayer dollars that go into the health system for sugar related issues.

    So, sure, the calorie count don’t stack up but Coke is bad for you. Milk isn’t. But continue to nit pick to boldly find the untruths if you like.

    Incidentally, I find the article to really be about the statement that McCarten makes regarding CCA’s products “It’s not as if they are doing anything extraordinary or indeed remarkable. It isn’t even socially beneficial.” The outgoing makes a parting shot at the public for not supporting big business. The public say “well just not -your- big business”. Fair enough.

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  52. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    hmmokrightitis (1,028) Says:
    January 21st, 2013 at 11:16 am
    DPF, seriously, ditch the diet and zero –

    I keep reading and hearing this but I have yet to see anyone put in the ground and the mourners standing around saying “the Diet Coke fucked him”, I’ve been drinking 2 – 8 cans of Diet Coke a day since I gave the piss away years ago and its done me no harm at all .

    And of an evening I kick back with Caffeine Free Diet Coke , I am aware that I am living on the edge but hell someone has to do it.

    And the edits back, nioooooce

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  53. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    Oh incidentally… there is a body of literature which suggests that some people become addicted to crime itself.

    Perfectly logical really. As labrator says, it’s all about endorphins and adrenaline. Which is why the LSV scheme in NZ is such a bloody good idea, and why it should be extended to any adult offenders who want it (because the first rule of addiction is that treatment won’t succeed unless the addict wants to change).

    And why we should be looking at taking people who repeatedly display high-risk behaviours, including so-called “hoon drivers”, and looking at giving them safe outlets at which they can boost their adrenaline, whether that be a closed race track, abeseiling, parachuting or whatever rather than posturing about crushing cars.

    Costly, perhaps. But not as costly as the crime it’d be preventing.

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  54. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    itstricky – normal (dark blue top) has about 50gm sugar per litre. And we never let our kids drink it at bedtime unless they brush their teeth afterwards, because it can cause ‘dental issues’.

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  55. RightNow (6,994 comments) says:

    Also, I thought this post was going to be about something completely different when I read the headline.

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  56. itstricky (1,836 comments) says:

    RightNow,

    Thanks, that is interesting. I have never examined the nutritional label of a bottle of milk before. Good point about the kids drinking at night.

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  57. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    You have a snort of coke and it reveals a hidden man within you.

    And he wants a snort as well.

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  58. Fletch (6,395 comments) says:

    From what I’ve read about aspartame, some of the symptoms can mimic Multiple Sclerosis and people have recovered after quitting the drink.

    I also remember reading people talking about Michael J Fox and his Parkinsons in relation to him being having been a sponsor for Diet Pepsi in the 80s and downing cases of the product (supplied free) during the filming of Family Ties.

    But who know. I totally stay away from the stuff and I’m worried that phenolenaline (spelling?) now in stuff like Berocca, cough medicine, vitamin C tablets etc, as a sweetener

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  59. Pete George (23,578 comments) says:

    Water taken in moderation is quite healthy and safe.

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  60. Steve (North Shore) (4,563 comments) says:

    I did not read all of the comments, but,
    The input hole is bigger than the output hole, and that is why you gain weight

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  61. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    Yeah, careful Pete, fish fuck in it :)

    I drink up to 3L of water a day, depending on levels of training, heat etc. Rode an hour today on the track, and then an hours run. Still drinking, sweats pissing off me, but I will not stop until Ive passed the clear stream test before bed.

    And my question to PEB – why would you knowingly put a man made chemical with dubious roots in to your body?

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  62. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17828671

    Magnuson, B. A.; Burdock, G. A.; Doull, J.; Kroes, R. M.; Marsh, G. M.; Pariza, M. W.; Spencer, P. S.; Waddell, W. J. et al. (2007). “Aspartame: A Safety Evaluation Based on Current Use Levels, Regulations, and Toxicological and Epidemiological Studies”. Critical Reviews in Toxicology 37


    Aspartame is a methyl ester of a dipeptide used as a synthetic nonnutritive sweetener in over 90 countries worldwide in over 6000 products. The purpose of this investigation was to review the scientific literature on the absorption and metabolism, the current consumption levels worldwide, the toxicology, and recent epidemiological studies on aspartame. Current use levels of aspartame, even by high users in special subgroups, remains well below the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and European Food Safety Authority established acceptable daily intake levels of 50 and 40 mg/kg bw/day, respectively. Consumption of large doses of aspartame in a single bolus dose will have an effect on some biochemical parameters, including plasma amino acid levels and brain neurotransmitter levels. The rise in plasma levels of phenylalanine and aspartic acid following administration of aspartame at doses less than or equal to 50 mg/kg bw do not exceed those observed postprandially. Acute, subacute and chronic toxicity studies with aspartame, and its decomposition products, conducted in mice, rats, hamsters and dogs have consistently found no adverse effect of aspartame with doses up to at least 4000 mg/kg bw/day. Critical review of all carcinogenicity studies conducted on aspartame found no credible evidence that aspartame is carcinogenic. The data from the extensive investigations into the possibility of neurotoxic effects of aspartame, in general, do not support the hypothesis that aspartame in the human diet will affect nervous system function, learning or behavior. Epidemiological studies on aspartame include several case-control studies and one well-conducted prospective epidemiological study with a large cohort, in which the consumption of aspartame was measured. The studies provide no evidence to support an association between aspartame and cancer in any tissue. The weight of existing evidence is that aspartame is safe at current levels of consumption as a nonnutritive sweetener.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12180494

    Butchko, H; Stargel, WW; Comer, CP; Mayhew, DA; Benninger, C; Blackburn, GL; De Sonneville, LM; Geha, RS et al. (2002). “Aspartame: Review of Safety”. Regulatory Toxicology and Pharmacology 35

    Over 20 years have elapsed since aspartame was approved by regulatory agencies as a sweetener and flavor enhancer. The safety of aspartame and its metabolic constituents was established through extensive toxicology studies in laboratory animals, using much greater doses than people could possibly consume. Its safety was further confirmed through studies in several human subpopulations, including healthy infants, children, adolescents, and adults; obese individuals; diabetics; lactating women; and individuals heterozygous (PKUH) for the genetic disease phenylketonuria (PKU) who have a decreased ability to metabolize the essential amino acid, phenylalanine. Several scientific issues continued to be raised after approval, largely as a concern for theoretical toxicity from its metabolic components–the amino acids, aspartate and phenylalanine, and methanol–even though dietary exposure to these components is much greater than from aspartame. Nonetheless, additional research, including evaluations of possible associations between aspartame and headaches, seizures, behavior, cognition, and mood as well as allergic-type reactions and use by potentially sensitive subpopulations, has continued after approval. These findings are reviewed here. The safety testing of aspartame has gone well beyond that required to evaluate the safety of a food additive. When all the research on aspartame, including evaluations in both the premarketing and postmarketing periods, is examined as a whole, it is clear that aspartame is safe, and there are no unresolved questions regarding its safety under conditions of intended use.

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  63. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    why would you knowingly put a man made chemical with dubious roots in to your body?

    Its about as close to the dark side as I go these days, like I said, living on the edge

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  64. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,771) Says:
    January 21st, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    But who know. I totally stay away from the stuff and I’m worried that phenolenaline (spelling?) now in stuff like Berocca, cough medicine, vitamin C tablets etc, as a sweetener

    Phenylalanine is an essential amino acid. It is a natural part of the human diet and is found in the breat milk of mammals.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylalanine
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_amino_acid


    An essential amino acid or indispensable amino acid is an amino acid that cannot be synthesized de novo by the organism (usually referring to humans), and therefore must be supplied in the diet.

    Other than those with phenylketonuria, why are people worried about it?

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  65. burt (8,275 comments) says:

    I compared a large can of Monster energy drink to a similar size can of Just Juice big fizz. The Just Juice had more sugar. – Just saying !

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  66. V (720 comments) says:

    Matt, try to get addicted to paying your taxes.

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  67. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Weihana:why are people worried about it?

    Because there are a lot of people like Fletch and Hinamanu who are gullible and don’t understand how easy it is for crackpots to distort and misrepresent facts and make things look scary when they aren’t.

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  68. RRM (9,924 comments) says:

    I like how the Coke CEO criticised New Zealand entrepreneurs for not taking enough risks or being ambitious enough to grow their businesses into large exporters, when he’s a little corporate soldier with a 20 year career of eating dicks and gradually climbing the ladder at Coca Cola.

    And now he’s leaving to start a new job – with Coca Cola. Tosser.

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  69. ChardonnayGuy (1,207 comments) says:

    I haven’t decided whether I prefer Coke Zero or Pepsi Max yet. And I do commend these corporates for giving me, as someone with Type II diabetes, a chance to continue drinking their godsend on hot Summer days.

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