but yes i will try harder:)

and i play the cards im dealt

Race cards ?

You can do better. Try harder.

i dont feel shit about being of mixed ethnic background. i embrace it and feel empowered by it.

and i play the cards im dealt

this is now going round and around and is starting to get to be as boring as the never ending facts
that each side offer to try and win the argument on global warming. But.

Re your effort at 4.11
Why not K.I.S.S. and drop the prefix liberal before democracy.
( By the way, what do you believe is the difference between a democracy and a liberal democracy ?)
All the religions you mention are tolerant. (Jewish, Christian, Buddist, Hindu)

What i am trying to get through to you Ryan is the uniqueness of islam.
islam is totally intollerant of other religions and is also the only one which is also a political movement.
This is the fundamental that you cannot or will not grasp.

To help you, please read the section on sharia in the link, islam 101 which i posted for you above.
The penny may drop for you then.
Then you might realise that your argument @4.11 is silly.

I was being specific about my use of the word “democracy”. One could claim that a democracy consisting entirely of Buddhists, for example, would have Buddhist beliefs and values imposed via the machinery of the State. I used the term “liberal democracy” deliberately because I believe that’s what we have here in New Zealand, where not only are we “democratic” – representative of the views of the people – but we are also “liberal” in that we value freedoms of expression, religion, etc., that might not be valued in another state that could vaguely claim the title “democracy”.

I know you’re trying to claim that Islam is unique in its incompatibility with democracy. What I am saying to you is that all religions are incompatible with democracy when they seek to impose themselves on other people. There is no such thing as an Islamic democracy, just as there is no such thing as a Jewish democracy, a Christian democracy, a Buddhist democracy, or any other kind of religious democracy.

There are plenty of Muslims who live their lives, support their families, pray, live, eat, worship as Muslims, within democratic societies that both protect their right to do so and protect others’ right to do the same with their own religion. The fact that “Islamic democracy” is a contradiction in terms is not a huge revelation, as any kind of “religious democracy” is a contradiction in terms.

I apologise for going “off the handle” a couple of times in this discussion.

Me too, Thor. I was a sarky little bitch a couple of times today. I’m sorry about that. Old habits, bad habits, etc.

What I wanted to say is that I’m saying exactly the same things as the apostates do. “Islam is dangerous – beware”.
( And yes, I’m well aware that most Muslims are not jihadists, but I’m talking about the *religion* here. )

I would trust the word of an apostate over the word of a Muslim *any day*.
I would trust apostates with *anything*.

I think my issue here is… I have two issues with this.

Firstly, anyone who’s come from a cultural/religious/political situation where someone could consider themselves an “apostate” of Islam, they’re immediately obviously coming from one of those bad situations where Islam is used as a support for or an excuse for oppression. I recognise those exist, but to tar every Muslim in the world with the brush of those places is unfair.

Secondly, a lot (not all) of apostates from Islam are converts to another religion, often Christianity, where they have a newly vested personal interest in denouncing Islam. An ex-Islamic Christian convert is never going to say something lovely about Islam, and they’re going to have a vested interest in using their position as an apostate to denounce what they now believe to be perhaps Satanic, or at least terribly misled.

Those are the main problems I have with using ex-members of a religion as the core of your evaluation of that religion.

There are some *excellent* and very intelligent apostates saying this too.
People like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ali Sina (the guy who founded faithfreedom.org) and many others.
All of them will back up the warnings about Islam given by Geert Wilders.
When it comes to Islam, they’ve “been there, done that”, and for that reason they are worth listening to.

Yes, but while remembering the context of those testimonies.

Get above your trauma: skin colour does not matter. The real difference is your education and what you have between your ears.

i dont make much of a distinction between european peoples or africans or asians for that matter. Most are culturally indistinct.

I agree. Yes indeed.

So please explain the next comment: “fuck your divide and conquer colonial bullshit.”

Is “colonial” a race or a culture… in your world ?

Given how “indistinct” you claim we are, then why do keep playing the race card and why do you feel so shit about being born a darkie ?

actually, whats your defintion of success?

and im sure your attitude towards africans, asians, arabs, euros or pasifikans depends entirely on the actual country that issued their passport eh manolo?…*cough* bullshit *cough*…splutter…

Hope our mate Ryan is still reading.

much as i dont make much of a distinction between european peoples or africans or asians for that matter. Most are culturally indistinct.

Really?
The author of the above statement lives in a faraway galaxy. The poor guy doesn’t know a think about human history.

The trouble making Muslims, in the West, are invited guests taking advantage of opportunities offered by us.

Muslim armies are not occupying christian countries and killing many thousands to advance their cause. Unlike the thousands of Obama’s troops invading, bombing, torturing and murdering their way through Islamic nations in our name.

I nearly choked on my coffee this morning when I heard Obama say we are entering a time of peace after a decade of war ! He just announced putting troops into an extra 35 Muslims countries this year. In addition to all the wars and military actions already under way. I doubt any President has had that many countries occupied, even during WWII. Watch what he does this year, then tell me how awful the Muslims are !

Every one of Obama’s supporters has blood on their hands and “if” they had any decency they would be weeping in shame. But they don’t, because they do not.

You’r a bullshit artist too. You do try to imply that you are Maori when you think it may help your argument.

What a sensitive racially centered petal you are. So hard done by by history and life.

i’m not trying to divide and rule sweetie. No need.
i doubt many Maori would align themselves with your racist dogma
however much you try to involve them.

Yep – that’s right, and any apostate would confirm this.

Here’s a very good definition of “ideology” –
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ideology

1. “the body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group.
2. such a body of doctrine, myth, etc., with reference to some political and social plan, as that of fascism, along with the devices for putting it into operation. ”

Definition 2 is an almost-perfect match for Islam.

“Religions” concern themselves with worship.
As soon as they step outside that realm, and into the area of government and the legal system, they can no longer claim to be merely a “religion”.
They are then an *ideology*. This is the case with Islam.

and im not pretending to be maori. i just refuse to make the distinction between maori and other blue arsed islanders given were all in the same boat.

much as i dont make much of a distinction between european peoples or africans or asians for that matter. Most are culturally indistinct.

fuck your divide and conquer colonial bullshit.

Re your effort at 4.11
Why not K.I.S.S. and drop the prefix liberal before democracy.
( By the way, what do you believe is the difference between a democracy and a liberal democracy ?)
All the religions you mention are tolerant. (Jewish, Christian, Buddist, Hindu)

What i am trying to get through to you Ryan is the uniqueness of islam.
islam is totally intollerant of other religions and is also the only one which is also a political movement.
This is the fundamental that you cannot or will not grasp.

To help you, please read the section on sharia in the link, islam 101 which i posted for you above.
The penny may drop for you then.
Then you might realise that your argument @4.11 is silly.

What I wanted to say is that I’m saying exactly the same things as the apostates do. “Islam is dangerous – beware”.
( And yes, I’m well aware that most Muslims are not jihadists, but I’m talking about the *religion* here. )

I would trust the word of an apostate over the word of a Muslim *any day*.
I would trust apostates with *anything*.

There are some *excellent* and very intelligent apostates saying this too.
People like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ali Sina (the guy who founded faithfreedom.org) and many others.
All of them will back up the warnings about Islam given by Geert Wilders.
When it comes to Islam, they’ve “been there, done that”, and for that reason they are worth listening to.