Bail should not be repeated if broken

February 20th, 2013 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

Anna Leask at NZ Herald reports:

Doctors later said the severity of Mike’s head injuries was usually only seen in car-crash victims – they had never seen it in an assault before.

Three men were arrested soon after and charged with causing grievous bodily harm with intent. The Herald has chosen not to name them for legal reasons.

Two of the men were already on and jointly facing charges, including assault with intent to injure and possession of a knife. After the alleged assault on Mike, one was remanded in custody and the other re-bailed.

Bail is often appropriate when people are first charged as they have not yet been found guilty (if they are). But if you are on bail and get charged again then bail should not occur unless there are exceptional circumstances.

The third man was also remanded in custody but bailed after a successful High Court appeal. He was arrested again in January for failing to appear in court and then granted bail again until his next appearance.

And if you fail to turn up to court, you should also lose the right to bail.

The family believed that anyone charged with a violent offence should be kept in custody until their trial to prevent any further attacks.

That is a step too far. But if they have a history of offending or were already on bail when further alleged offending occurs – then bail should not occur.

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24 Responses to “Bail should not be repeated if broken”

  1. Graeme Edgeler (3,222 comments) says:

    But if you are on bail and get charged again then bail should not occur unless there are exceptional circumstances.

    That you might in fact be innocent of the first and second set of charges should not be an exceptional circumstances.

    Automatically revoking bail because the police think you are a criminal isn’t a step toward a police state, it is a police state.

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  2. Left Right and Centre (2,397 comments) says:

    Police state or getting my head caved in? I’ll take police state.

    Now I know what it means when someone gets knocked into next week… or into three months time in this bloke’s case….

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  3. nasska (9,576 comments) says:

    If the wheels of justice were to accelerate then bail might justifiably be tightened. As the situation stands a defendant could easily spend fifteen months in custody on remand, be found not guilty & have no right of redress for the unwarranted imprisonment.

    Nothing is so complicated that it can’t be dealt with by the courts, prosecution & defence in far less time.

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  4. David Farrar (1,812 comments) says:

    Sorry Graeme, but tough. If you get arrested twice by Police – for different alleged serious crimes, on different occassions then the need to protect the community comes first.

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  5. wreck1080 (3,533 comments) says:

    Re-bailed?

    These judges are lunatics.

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  6. wreck1080 (3,533 comments) says:

    “Police state or getting my head caved in? I’ll take police state”

    I’d take my head being caved in. That is how much I value free society.

    I wonder how many cases of ‘bail’ are attributable to lack of jail beds?

    Please build more jails — add 1% to my tax rate and I’m happy that the scum and vermin are off the street. At the same time, make a life sentence a life sentence.

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  7. hj (5,720 comments) says:

    If you might have the plague you get quarantined. Seems to be the same issue here as privacy where you might be inclined to cutting some ones head off but the law protects you until you do.

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  8. lastmanstanding (1,154 comments) says:

    Justice delayed is justice denied. We the citizens should be applying the collective blow torch to the pollies Y fronts to get their sorry sad arses into gear so we dont have the pathetic delays we have now between arrests and trials.

    There are no excuses. This is a case of a lack of will capacity and competence nothing more nothing less.

    Never forget the Pollies passed law to substantially increase their retirement pensions in 7 minutes flat.

    They CAN do it when they want to its up to us to force these miserable little cretins to act.

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  9. hj (5,720 comments) says:

    wreck1080 (2,669) Says:

    These judges are lunatics.
    ….
    I think we underestimate the world view of elites. What comes to mind is Mae Chen remarking that there was a genuine fear of a Maori uprising over the foreshore and seabed. They are so smart and theoretical that they are out of touch. Same for the Tertiary Teachers Union who dictate Green party policy.

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  10. Alan Wilkinson (1,798 comments) says:

    We need a formal investigation of major parole and bail disasters to try to make sure lessons are learnt and errors not repeated with results made public. There is no reason judges should be immune from such scrutiny.

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  11. louiekiwi (5 comments) says:

    Ever wondered why, we always get the victims name and not the perpetrators ?
    The NZ Herald and other gutless news outlets are hiding behind “For legal Reasons” (because it is not illegal) and are loathed to be called racist.
    When will somebody ‘Man Up’ and state some glaringly obvious facts.
    As in this case and in others. Assault murder theft and rape is almost always committed by Maori on Europeans.
    I wont quote statistics. They are scant, and difficult to find. But are avaliabe.
    It was brought to my attention by my friend in the police force. Before he revealed these facts to me I chose to dismiss these thoughts as… I thought it might be so… but … heaven forbid if I think or mention that… I’ll be labeled a racist.

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  12. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    This country’s justice system is a joke. Ive been saying it for years and years and I have yet to be proved wrong. The violence is getting worse and the sentences handed out by the judiciary are a complete joke.

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  13. ross69 (3,645 comments) says:

    Sorry Graeme, but tough. If you get arrested twice by Police – for different alleged serious crimes, on different occassions then the need to protect the community comes first.

    You haven’t addressed the other side of the coin. If an innocent person is twice wrongly charged by police, the said person – having spent months in prison and presumably having lost their job – would be entitled to claim compensation from police? I imagine police would have no objection.

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  14. Graeme Edgeler (3,222 comments) says:

    Sorry Graeme, but tough. If you get arrested twice by Police – for different alleged serious crimes, on different occassions then the need to protect the community comes first.

    1. Don’t apologise to me, apologise to the generation to follow who will know of democracy with respect for the rule of law only from the history books :-)

    2. Your claim “But if you are on bail and get charged again then bail should not occur unless there are exceptional circumstances.” makes no observation about the seriousness of the charges. I’m glad to see you step back from your earlier position, because, really, it was rather outrageous.

    3. However, even with that change, do you seriously want the police to have the power to effectively imprison people (with court oversight only in exceptional circumstances) for 12-18 months and sometimes longer?

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  15. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    I suspect I’m one of “the generation that follows”, and it’s not a free society if little fuckers like these are given license Bernard Hickey: Reserve Bank sticks to the script as our economy teeters on brinkvia @nzheraldto reoffend. It’s ridiculous to say that injecting an element of common sense into bail over multiple “three strikes” charges is tantamount to a police state. What you’re saying is that a society without consequences is safer than a society with common sense as a foundation over justice matters that don’t affect the great majority if cases, in order to preserve some kind of intellectual rigor.

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  16. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    That was a weird edit – should read:
    It’s ridiculous to say that injecting an element of common sense into bail over multiple “three strikes” charges is tantamount to a police state. What you’re saying @Graeme is that a society without consequences is safer than a society with common sense as a foundation over justice matters that don’t affect the great majority if cases, in order to preserve some kind of intellectual rigor.

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  17. Reid (15,624 comments) says:

    Yawn. Just another plank of the Frankfurt School.

    To further the advance of their ‘quiet’ cultural revolution – but giving us no ideas about their plans for the future – the School recommended (among other things):
    1. The creation of racism offences.
    2. Continual change to create confusion
    3. The teaching of sex and homosexuality to children
    4. The undermining of schools’ and teachers’ authority
    5. Huge immigration to destroy identity.
    6. The promotion of excessive drinking
    7. Emptying of churches
    8. An unreliable legal system with bias against victims of crime
    9. Dependency on the state or state benefits
    10. Control and dumbing down of media
    11. Encouraging the breakdown of the family

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  18. Graeme Edgeler (3,222 comments) says:

    I am not pushing for “a society without consequences”.

    The consequence of committing a violent offence should be that you are charged and face trial.

    A consequence of being convicted of a violent crime should be going to prison. Perhaps for a very long time depending on the charge and the seriousness of the offending.

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  19. louiekiwi (5 comments) says:

    @Reid. Unlike most, you see and acknowledge “The Problem”

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  20. SPC (4,679 comments) says:

    This Frankfurt School sounds like a new protocols conspiracy theory about some threat to white nation Christian patriarchy society.

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  21. SPC (4,679 comments) says:

    The problem is the delay to trial. There is no rehab while on bail and many realise they are going to go to jail when the case finally goes to court. So further offending is likely as the months go on before the trial.

    You could argue that what bail does is show who are hard to rehabilitate and thus will more likely re-offend once out of prison.

    The best deterrent for offending on bail is judges declaring it grounds for heavier sentencing on the original charge.

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  22. louiekiwi (5 comments) says:

    If you will not watch this to the very end, don’t watch it at all. You will gain no understanding from it.
    Also Ref: Dr Richard Lynn & Prof Philippe Rushton.
    No conspiracy only fact. Connect the dots.
    The problem will become clear.

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  23. louiekiwi (5 comments) says:

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  24. louiekiwi (5 comments) says:

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