General Debate 23 February 2013

February 23rd, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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147 Responses to “General Debate 23 February 2013”

  1. Pete George (21,812 comments) says:

    A comment made yesterday:

    I just don’t know why people abandon faith in God to embrace evolution and consequently atheism. It’s a terrible world view to live by. No hope, no purpose, no love, just blind pitiless indifference.

    Terrible or not? Blind? Pitiless?

    If you haven’t experienced it how could you know?

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  2. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Pete George – theres a job going in Rome that might interest you.

    The only prerequisite is that you are a male. You dont even have to be a catholic (although i guess it might help). The job offers the opportunity to study these subject that you seem so interested in. And in some respects the job carries the ability of being infallable – which is probably something that youve never experienced……….

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  3. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    Dead cat bounty withdrawn

    Gareth Morgan has withdrawn his bounty for euthanased cats, preferring instead to sponsor Wellington’s wildlife haven, Zealandia.

    In a blog post yesterday, Dr Morgan said that the SPCA’s “decision to sacrifice New Zealand’s native fauna in some misguided attempt to ‘save lives’ of stray cats” meant they were not worthy of his $5-a-cat bounty.

    “Because of this intransigence and refusal to reverse their policy of supporting stray cats, I have withdrawn the $5 bounty . . . and instead will offer to Zealandia funding to rent cat traps to the people of Karori so we can enhance the halo around this very special ecological initiative

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  4. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    I just don’t know why people abandon faith in God to embrace evolution and consequently atheism. It’s a terrible world view to live by. No hope, no purpose, no love, just blind pitiless indifference.

    I desperately need to believe I am loved and that life continues after death.

    Therefore Yahweh exists.

    Q.E.D

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  5. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    Since I am going to be out all day, I can contribute to what will inevitably be a totally pointless battle between the God Botherers and the others, and then leave them to it!

    Not sure if I read old PG right, but are you saying atheists are incapable of love or pity? You must widen your circle of friends…I have not found either love or pity purely to be the preserve of believers..

    Righto…go for it lads! I’ll check back in after my day out….

    Wat: I am an agnostic who rather hopes the Christians are right…but I fear (sorry) that you may be….

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  6. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    DG,

    Have you ever read the Bible?

    Its barbaric, twisted spoilt-child of a deity makes the likes of Hitler, Stalin and Saddam look like boy scouts. To wish that such a depraved magic pixie actually existed is the height of perversity.

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  7. peterwn (2,935 comments) says:

    See:
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10867162
    “Govt ‘asleep at wheel’ on Solid Energy”

    Which is precisely why the Government should not be owning it anyway. Labour is being hyprocritical here anyway, they would have ended up with a similar problem – instead they are deluding themselves big dollops of taxpayers’ money would have saved the day. Labour would have a dilemma anyway – the unions would want to keep it and the Greens would want it dismantled – or sold off in a similar manner to selling a bridge.

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  8. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    Wat: No I haven’t…but I have read lots of passages from it in “The God delusion”! But I was unclear; I hope they are right in that it doesn’t all end at the crematorium (in my case), but as I say my brain tells me that to think otherwise is in fact just a hopeful delusion borne of the fear of nothingness…

    Where are they all? Perhaps still at morning devotions…

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  9. Andrei (2,430 comments) says:

    LOL Pete George – Nations have turned their face against God before and paid the price.

    But the light never goes out and holiness returns

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  10. WineOh (428 comments) says:

    Please no more lengthy threads on god, bain, climate change or gareth morgan.
    My eyes are getting tired from “rolling” all the time.

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  11. Andrei (2,430 comments) says:

    I know WineOh – I guess we could devote a thread to discussing your ingrown toenail, would that meet with your approval?

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  12. eszett (2,269 comments) says:

    in fact just a hopeful delusion borne of the fear of nothingness…

    And yet you have been nothingness for 14+ billion years before you were born and it didn’t cause you the slightest inconvenience.
    (to paraphrase Twain)

    Nothing to fear, just make the most of what you have.

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  13. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Garrett was obviously still asleep when he wrote this
    -

    “….Righto…go for it lads! I’ll check back in after my day out….”

    Watch this :

    Righto…go for it lads! I’ll check back in after my day out….at Philu’s place, he’s invited me around again for a few more cones and a prayer session…..! :cool:

    C’mon…let’s all play Chinese whispers today….feel free to add what you like :cool:

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  14. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/4-crazy-land-claims-actually-recognized-by-government/

    The funniest one is the guy that claimed outer space! Yanks are so crazy- At least that could never happen here, oh wait..

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  15. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    DG,

    Imagine being in the eternal grasp of an omnipotent Uday Hussein.

    That’s the promise, fortunately an empty one, of the Bible.

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  16. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    Agnostic myself. There might be a higher power, there might not be. No one really knows so I’ll put a dollar each way and try to be a good boy..
    But I do hate smug Athiests who beat their chests,sneer at other peoples religious beliefs and claim that Science has ‘Disproved’ Religion- They are more annoying and deluded than any bible bashing God-botherers.
    Science hasn’t proved or disproved jack-shit. ‘Modern’ Science can’t even cure my fucking hangover…

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  17. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    Longknives,

    Put a dollar each way on Father Christmas while you’re at it, eh?

    And the Tooth Fairy.

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  18. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “….Science hasn’t proved or disproved jack-shit….”

    You’re right Longknives…..and besides that, Irving Kristol has a quote that goes something like this:

    The arguement between religion and God is pointless. Science is about the gathering of facts: having a hypothesis and then gathering the evidence to support it. While religion is about belief: why we teach our children to pray instead of having them gathering evidence to support the existance of God.

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  19. Jack5 (4,222 comments) says:

    Brian Gaynor has an interesting article on Mainzeal and it’s s directors (including Jenny Shipley).

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10867172

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  20. RightNow (6,338 comments) says:

    I have no problem believing in God. I believe God is the universe and all the matter and energy contained therein.
    Apart from the attribution of cognizance and a personality to God my definition allows me to maintain a belief that isn’t directly contradictory of that of my parents.

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  21. RightNow (6,338 comments) says:

    Longknives “‘Modern’ Science can’t even cure my fucking hangover”

    Yes it can, you’re just not prepared to undertake the prescribed cure. Drink alcohol.

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  22. kowtow (6,706 comments) says:

    what dumbness

    Can take what he likes from the Good Book. When he reads it and finds it barbaric etc that is clearly the Old Testament,essentially the history of one of the worlds major crossroads. It is full of the whole spectrum of human life and endeavour.

    The New Testament. A different story altogether. Love thy neighbour,do unto others………

    Clearly wat is a sad,embittered soul and is searching for reasons to hate rather than love.

    Here endeth the lesson.

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  23. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    The Vatican: Don´t Bank on It

    A multi-decade financial scandal factory

    Vatican feeling the pinch and also looking abroad for a new Pope

    http://www.realecontv.com/videos/banking-malfeasance/the-vatican-dont-bank-on-it.html

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  24. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    Harriet,

    religion is about belief: why we teach our children to pray instead of gathering evidence to support the existance of God.

    I love the implied ‘we could collect evidence, we just don’t want to.’

    Hilarious.

    Belief in Yahweh is on a par with belief in Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Superman, Zeus, elves and the Lock Ness Monster.

    Kowtow,

    Equally, if you ignore Hitler’s crimes against humanity you can create ‘a different story altogether.’

    Anyone who chooses not to do so is clearly just ‘a sad,embittered soul…searching for reasons to hate rather than love.’

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  25. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Elizabeth Warren cuts to the chase

    Banks commit major crimes with impunity
    while average citizens have their lives wrecked over trivia

    Wall St spent millions to keep this woman out of Washington. Now she’s a senator

    http://www.realecontv.com/videos/government-corruption/elizabeth-warren-cuts-to-the-chase.html

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  26. Steve (North Shore) (4,323 comments) says:

    Chinese whispers Harriet?

    Are you sure DG has gone to see the magpie and not Griff? I reckon they are the same person.

    Hahahaha :)

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  27. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    So is Mr Farrar going to respond to John Keys claim that the huge swath of job losses is due to private companies the govt can do nothing about.

    How about privatisation does not work. Yet both National and Labour support privatisation to the hilt.

    So in the long run what will be the point of the Beehive unless it’s going to be taken over

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  28. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    The new Google Glass

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  29. Nookin (2,887 comments) says:

    And about time!! Well said Toogood J

    “By my count, including all of the separate unsuccessful applications to this Court; the various applications and appeals to the Court of Appeal on both liability and quantum; and the several failed applications to the Supreme Court for leave to appeal or to recall judgments, this judgment records the 15th unsuccessful attempt by Mr Siemer to mount a challenge to the defamation judgment. An inordinate amount of judicial resource has been expended on proceedings which are devoid of merit and the plaintiffs have suffered an unconscionable level of legal costs in resisting them, without any realistic prospect of recovery from Mr Siemer. Enough is enough.
    [42] I consider it appropriate to make an order, in the exercise of the Court’s inherent power to prevent abuses of its process, the purpose of which will be to prevent Mr Siemer from continuing to waste the time and resources of this Court and the plaintiffs in respect of this proceeding.

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  30. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Kiwi Kids fail at maths.

    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2013/02/kiwi-kids-fail-at-maths-youre-on-right.html

    Religion: Another form of ?Collectivism. Just like Unions.
    Helpful to fight off an attack of the Screaming Meemies at the thought of being ALL ALONE in this world.

    Perhaps also a form of a language that helps us to tap into another source of power.

    Personally I find The Booze is more effective at fighting off the SM’s but then you’ve got to watch that shit doesn’t get too much of a hold on you.

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  31. Ed Snack (1,535 comments) says:

    Hinamanu, Elizabeth Warren is a lying, scheming, very wealthy women with academic tenure railing about how others might have transgressed. She fabricated stories about a familial link to native Americans in order to get preferment in academia (through positive discrimination), and retails fantasies about bankers for purely partisan political motives, it’s a “class warfare” meme that the democrats are very keen to spread. It surely sounds odd coming from someone who, with her husband also in academia, earns in the order of 700-1000K a year ?

    And “Wall Street” didn’t spend money opposing her, most of the fat cats are perfectly happy with their insider contacts with the Democrats and love the crony capitalism they practice. It keeps the hot-polloi you see, from attempting to gain competitive advantage by operating better. Use you cronies in government to apply regulations to keep the status quo.

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  32. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    @Ed Snack

    This is how I find these things out ED….thanks

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  33. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    BBC Now Admits Al Qaeda Never Existed

    http://www.secretsofthefed.com/bbc-admits-alqaeda/

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  34. Lucia Maria (1,988 comments) says:

    Pete George,

    I abandoned faith in God many years ago when I was in my early 20′s (though it started years before that).

    What I felt was absolute, total freedom. And the feeling of being completely alone in a huge universe.

    Eventually, I discovered that in absolute freedom without God, life is completely meaningless. And that children brought up this way cannot live with themselves if they have a conscience.

    So, six years ago I came back. I came to the conclusion the if Church doesn’t point to truth, then there is no truth. And moral relativism doesn’t make any sense to me.

    Now, back to the garden.

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  35. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    But Lucia Maria, are you in the Word where we truly find God through His Son

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  36. Scott Chris (5,678 comments) says:

    Apart from the attribution of cognizance and a personality to God my definition allows me to maintain a belief that isn’t directly contradictory of that of my parents.

    Well if humans and any other intelligent beings in the universe are self aware and have personality, then so does God by your definition.

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  37. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    @Scott

    Read the Bible Scot…you’ll find Jesus had a ton of personality. You’ll also find humour if you read deep enough.

    God reserves the gold for His people

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  38. Scott Chris (5,678 comments) says:

    Science hasn’t proved or disproved jack-shit

    Ya, that’s why your computer works on luck and is powered by faith.

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  39. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Not getting any easier for Cameron: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9889410/Britains-credit-rating-downgraded-from-AAA-to-Aa1.html

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  40. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Loyalty among no-hopers: http://michellemalkin.com/2013/02/22/jimmy-carter-obama-video/

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  41. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Teen Wins EPA Award For Invention Which Turns CO2 Into Oxygen While You Drive!!

    Who knew a teenager just learning how to drive could come up with a device to reduce pollution coming from his car?

    A Plano high school student has won an award from the Environmental Protection Agency for his environmentally friendly invention. It cleans up car exhaust that would normally pollute the air.

    “I was driving and I was at a stop sign and I saw the car in front of me, where you could see the carbon dioxide being released,” said Param Jaggi, a 17-year-old senior at Plano East High School.

    That was three years ago. Since then, Jaggi has been working on a solution. He designed a device called the “Algae Mobile,” which is inserted into the exhaust pipe on the back side of a car.

    Through photosynthesis, algae inside the gas-permeable, aluminum alloy tube converts carbon dioxide into oxygen and releases it into the air for humans to breathe.

    http://www.secretsofthefed.com/teen-wins-epa-award-for-invention-which-turns-co2-into-oxygen-while-you-drive/

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  42. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    I do like the way you said that Lucia Maria. Especially, “Back to the garden.” That and back to the book or debate of the moment just about sums it up for me.

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  43. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    CHINESE SUGGEST US CYBER FALSE FLAG

    or…..excuses to finance federal funding for spy companies

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  44. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    I often wonder how people can ignore the spiritual component of their being. This is the part of you that makes you you, as opposed to you being exactly precisely the same as someone else. And none of us are. We are all unique. Not just in looks, that’s superficial and by comparison trivial, but in the sense of your character. See if we are all created by the world around us then you’d think siblings for example would have relatively similar characters wouldn’t you, but they don’t, do they.

    Every single living entity appears to have a unique character and you can observe this all over the animal kingdom from us to apes to any other species. Even plants have individual characteristics.

    And the key question is: why? Why is this the case? Religion is the only thing that answers this question. Science never has. To forestall the shallow thinkers who allege it has, via the discovery of DNA, I point out that this merely uncovers one mechanism by which individual differences occur. And it’s a pretty superficial explanation as well, given that DNA is the beginning of the distinction but by no means the end of it, if it was a substantive explanation then we would expect to find that many sets of siblings would have far more similar characters than they in fact do.

    One reason that I wonder how people can ignore all of this and fail to ask themselves the why question, is that if you follow the faithless trail to its logical conclusion, you wind up with: is this all there is? Is life really so barren, so empty, so trivial that the ultimate purpose of it is to simply reproduce the species? Because that’s all that it ultimately comes down to if you fail to contemplate the why. And it’s hard for me to understand how thinking walking talking humans that are being can be so enormously superficial that many of them really do think this. Or it would be hard for me to understand this if religion didn’t provide the explanation, which it does. And that is, those people who do think that which includes some of you above as well as billions of others, have been garden-pathed. You’ve had the wool pulled over your eyes. You’ve been fooled, flim-flamed, scammed into thinking what you do by the owner and ruler of this world, and you don’t even know it. Which is desperately sad, for you, considering that the path out of your darkness is so very clear and plain – simply start asking yourself: why?

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  45. RightNow (6,338 comments) says:

    Scotty, good that you’re thinking about it:
    “Well if humans and any other intelligent beings in the universe are self aware and have personality, then so does God by your definition.”
    Then the sum of all awareness and personalities becomes that of God. While there is still no single/authoritative consciousness there does exist a ‘group’ consciousness, which borders on mysticism.

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  46. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    Then the sum of all awareness and personalities becomes that of God.

    No it doesn’t RightNow. You’ve omitted free will from your equation. See life today is and always has been a competition between Satan and God. Satan challenged God by telling Him He wasn’t much of a God if all His worshippers worshipped Him because they had no choice in the matter so God said, right, we’ll see about that. What I will do is give people complete freedom so they can voluntarily determine whether or not they worship me and during this period the Earth is yours to do what you wilt, under certain conditions. One of them being that Satan cannot make people do anything, so Satan cannot force people to worship him same as God doesn’t, but Satan is allowed to (and does) use guile and cunning – deception in other words – to fool people in turning away from the Creator.

    That’s what’s been going on since the original sin, and it continues today.

    BBC Now Admits Al Qaeda Never Existed

    hinamanu how long do you think it will take the majority of people to wake up and recognise Al Qa’ida is really Al CIA-duh? I’m picking, never, myself.

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  47. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    This is not from the Japanese files

    Alien abduction insurance is an insurance policy issued against alien abduction. The insurance policy is redeemed if the insured person is abducted by aliens.

    A policy normally costs around $150 per $1.5 million in coverage, and policy offerings vary from $10,000 to $10 million. Some companies offer policies for alien pregnancy, alien examinations and death caused by aliens.

    The very first company to offer UFO abduction insurance was the St. Lawrence Agency in Altamonte Springs, Florida. The company says that it has paid out at least two claims. Over 20,000 people have purchased the insurance.

    http://www.secretsofthefed.com/protect-yourself-with-alien-abduction-insurance/

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  48. RightNow (6,338 comments) says:

    Reid, you’re confusing your version of God with mine.

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  49. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    @ Reid

    It’s all about the Ark brother

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  50. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    I’ve been abducted by aliens twice. First time I woke up in Wainui.

    Second time I woke up in a sheep paddock in Wainui.

    I really need insurance! :)

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  51. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    Reid, you’re confusing your version of God with mine.

    Fair enough RightNow but then how do you integrate free will into your version?

    I’ve been abducted by aliens twice.

    Did it hurt? :)

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  52. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    I forgot to ask the sheep. :)

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  53. thedavincimode (6,119 comments) says:

    Oh God. :(

    Who started it today?

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  54. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    I didn’t. I’ve been busy with the sheep! :)

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  55. publicwatchdog (1,823 comments) says:

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/should-directors-be-held-more-liable-company-performance-set-go-weekend-review-db-136267

    “Second, directors are already personally accountable for their actions when managing the affairs of the company. It is the directors who are in the firing line after a company fails if they have in any way acted in bad faith, had a conflict of interest, acted recklessly, misled investors, or traded while insolvent.”

    Not if your names are John Banks or Don Brash and the company that they were the Directors of – was Huljich Wealth Management (NZ) Ltd?

    Unless, of course, private prosecutor Graham McCready is successful?

    Penny Bright

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  56. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    The rates thief is pointing the finger at other people?

    Oh the ironing.

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  57. Kacang (36 comments) says:

    Religion is for people who don’t want to go to hell.
    Spirituality is for those who have been to hell and don’t want to go back.
    The former won’t understand this.
    The latter may.

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  58. Kacang (36 comments) says:

    @Hinemanu 12:46. Cute story.
    Bullshit Alert! CO2 is colourless & odorless, so how could she have seen it?
    Warmists imagining things again.

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  59. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    Religion is for people who don’t want to go to hell.

    Kacang that’s a doctrinal perspective often espoused by someone on the outside looking in. I’m not saying that’s you I’m simply saying often that allegation is made by such people because that’s the only explanation they, in their ignorance, can imagine. As someone who is religious, I can tell you with confidence that’s not the reason why I am, although I wouldn’t be surprised if it was for some others.

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  60. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    I suspect it is for Lucia and Andrei! :)

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  61. RightNow (6,338 comments) says:

    Kacang @ 2.26, I can’t help thinking it would be a much better invention if it converted carbon monoxide.

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  62. RightNow (6,338 comments) says:

    reid, “then how do you integrate free will into your version?” – what makes you think free will isn’t inherent in my version?

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  63. iMP (2,152 comments) says:

    More on “Mickey Savage” blog at Waitakere and DPF’s reference, and whether Winston can be Red. One word: Nup!

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/02/23/a-red-winston/

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  64. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    Certain people need the comfort and support that religious belief provides. No news there. Life can be tough.

    But let’s be clear: no one on this thread is a Christian; although there are plenty of hypocritical fakes.

    A real Christian wouldn’t bowdlerise and discard the majority of the Bible; claiming to take absolute values from it yet in reality respecting just the few bits which agree with their priors and don’t inconvenience them personally.

    And a real Christian wouldn’t distort and twist the nature of their belief system’s deity so that it bears absolutely no resemblance to how it is described and depicted in the Bible.

    Those claiming to be Christians are simply engaging in a heartwarming delusion of their own creation: One where they are loved and looked after by a magical pixie which shares the name of the one from the Bible but is otherwise completely unrecognisable. And in their delusion they are – amazingly enough – under no obligation to respect any of the laws or lessons from the Bible. But the ones they happen to choose are, wouldn’t you know it, imbued with divine sanction and authority; whilst the 99% they ignore, well, they’re not ‘real’ laws.

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  65. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    reid, “then how do you integrate free will into your version?” – what makes you think free will isn’t inherent in my version?

    As I outlined above, my understanding and I stand always to be corrected, is that we have been granted freedom by God to choose whether or not we worship Him and that voluntary choice is the central objective of the whole game of life. This life we are in, I believe, is a school. We are learning through our experiences on Earth, to trust God, notwithstanding the storms and calamities that God, in His wisdom, chooses to allow us to endure. Those with faith who endure those storms preserving their faith, thereby strengthen it.

    Rightly or wrongly (and I’m beginning to think I was wrong) I read into your 12:58 that your perspective is that God is directing us, although after reading it again, I’m not sure that is what you were saying?

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  66. Andrei (2,430 comments) says:

    Rubbish Wat – for a start the Bible isn’t a single book it is a collection of books written at different times and places and for different purposes.

    The Canon that is the Bible was defined by the Church. Christianity is not defined by the exclusively Bible, which is interpreted through the Church.

    If you a cherry picking bits of the Bible rather than reading it through the lens of the Church you are going to get nowhere, it will teach you nothing

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  67. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    Andrei,

    If you a cherry picking bits of the Bible rather than reading it through the lens of the Church you are going to get nowhere, it will teach you nothing

    You are espousing Catholicism: 2000 years of corruption, spin and lies. The idea that you need a hierarchy of priests to “interpret” the Bible for you is simply perverse.

    And the complaint is precisely that “Christians” (sic) indulge in cherry-picking to the extreme; dismissing and ignoring 99% of the laws and guidance for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

    The belief system you follow may be derived from the Bible, but it is 99% Andreism and just 1% Christianity. You are an Andreist, not a Christian.

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  68. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    ‘Collapse of UK debt-ridden social system only matter of time’

    RT’s Laura Smith talks to free banking advocate, a Conservative MP, Steve Baker.

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  69. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    A doctor was having an affair with his nurse. Shortly afterward, she told him she was pregnant. Not wanting his wife to know, he gave the nurse a sum of money and asked her to go to Italy and have the baby there. “But how will I let you know the baby is born?” she asked. He replied, “Just send me a postcard and write ‘spaghetti’ on the back. I’ll take care of expenses.” Not knowing what else to do, the nurse took the money and flew to Italy.

    Six months went by and then one day the doctor’s wife called him at the office and explained, “Dear, you received a very strange postcard in the mail today from Europe, and I don’t understand what it means.” The doctor said, “Just wait until I get home and I will explain it to you.”

    Later that evening, the doctor came home, read the postcard, fell to the floor with a heart
    attack. Paramedics rushed him to the ER. The lead medic stayed back to comfort the wife.
    He asked what trauma had precipitated the cardiac arrest. So the wife picked up the card and read, “‘Spaghetti, Spaghetti, Spaghetti, Spaghetti – Two with sausage and meatballs, two without.’”

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  70. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “Warmists imagining things again.”

    Actually, I’m not a warmist.

    Global warming stopped around 16 years ago says Met office

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2261577/Global-warming-stopped-16-years-ago-Met-Office-report-reveals-MoS-got-right-warming–deniers-now.html

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  71. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    A young couple were on their way to Vegas to get married. Before getting there, the girl said to the guy that she had a confession to make. The reason that they have not been too intimate is because she is very flat chested.

    “If you want to cancel the wedding, then I’ll understand,” she said. The guy remarked, “I don’t mind that you’re flat, and sex is not the most important thing in a marriage anyway.”

    Several miles down the road, the guy turned to the girl and said that he also had a confession to make. The reason that they have not been too intimate is because he is just like a baby below the waist. The girl remarked, “I don’t mind that like a baby below the
    waist, and sex is not the most important thing in a marriage anyway.”

    And so, the happy couple went on to Vegas and got married. On their wedding night, the girl took off her clothes. True to her word, she is as flat as a washboard. Then, the guy took
    off his clothes. After one glance at his naked body, the girl fainted and fell to the floor.

    When she regained consciousness, the guy said, “I told you before we got married, so why were you so surprised?”

    “You told me it was just like a baby.” The guy replied, “It is! 8 pounds and 21 inches long!”

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  72. Andrei (2,430 comments) says:

    LOL Wat, I’m an Orthodox Christian, on a journey that will hopefully lead to my salvation.

    The Bible my friend is the book of the Church, where do you think it came from, who do you think defined the Canon (with the Holy Spirits guidance of course), what books to include and what books to omit? The CHURCH did!!!!!

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  73. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    Certain people need the comfort and support that religious belief provides. No news there. Life can be tough.

    But let’s be clear: no one on this thread is a Christian; although there are plenty of hypocritical fakes.

    And you “know” this how, wat?

    Also, your ignorance is profound on Christianity if you haven’t even understood yet how the OT reconciles with the NT. I mean, that is Christianity 101 wat and has been pointed out to you before and yet, time and again, you keep bringing it up in thread after thread, like a dog returning to its own vomit. (Guess which book that phrase is in, wat.)

    But just because you’re not only ignorant but determined to remain so, doesn’t mean the rest of us are or chose to be wat. You might want to bear that in mind the next time you’re contemplating returning to your own vomit.

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  74. kowtow (6,706 comments) says:

    Oh look here’s more of that diversity dividend.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2283201/Oxford-sex-gang-victim-aged-11-branded-initial-abuser.html

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  75. Pete George (21,812 comments) says:

    What have National got right?

    Tax cuts didn’t save the economy.
    The Jobs summit achieved nothing.
    Bootcamps don’t work.
    The exodus to Australia is getting worse.
    National abandoned their mining plans
    and the multinationals are abandoning their search for offshore oil.
    Hekia Parata has turned education into a fiasco.
    The 100% Pure brand is a joke.
    Unemployment is too high.
    Too much of Christchurch has been forgotten.
    The manufacturing industry is in crisis.
    Poverty is on the rise.
    Inequality is increasing.
    The “welfare crackdown” card is wearing out.
    The privatisation campaign is delayed and discredited.
    Solid Energy was allowed to fall apart.
    Key has lost his memory (and/or won’t read).
    Novopay is a complete disaster.
    The Sky City deal reeks to high heaven.

    Is that a fair list?

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  76. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    All of that and more. Only thing though is that the other lot would be even worse.

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  77. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    Tax cuts didn’t save the economy.

    They were never meant to. The reason they haven’t made a diff is because the economy has been suppressed by the GFC since before day one of Key’s administration. And BTW, personally I’ve always advocated Key should have cancelled them, anyway.

    The Jobs summit achieved nothing.

    See above. And BTW, neither did “The Knowledge Wave,” either.

    Bootcamps don’t work.

    Jury is still out.

    The exodus to Australia is getting worse.

    See above. And it’s slowing as Australia slows.

    National abandoned their mining plans

    yeah, dumb.

    and the multinationals are abandoning their search for offshore oil.

    Not all of them and who cares anyway? The Great South Basin is not going away anytime soon.

    Hekia Parata has turned education into a fiasco.

    Parata is Key’s Maori Cabinet “brand” that’s why he walked onto Ratana with her the day or so after he announced she was competent. I don’t think he should have kept her around because she’ll just keep getting worse, but that’s why he kept her on.

    The 100% Pure brand is a joke.

    Says who? The Gweens? WTF do they know? About anything?

    Unemployment is too high.

    See first point above. What about that don’t you understand?

    Too much of Christchurch has been forgotten.

    Says who? ChCh Liarbore politicians and a handful of disaffected residents both groups with vested interests? Who else says that?

    The manufacturing industry is in crisis.

    Yep, dumb.

    Poverty is on the rise.

    See point one above.

    Inequality is increasing.

    See point one above.

    The “welfare crackdown” card is wearing out.

    Amongst whom? Lefties? Who else? i.e. which groups that matter, think that?

    The privatisation campaign is delayed and discredited.

    You mean thanks to Sian Elias and her traitorous SC bench?

    Solid Energy was allowed to fall apart.

    Possibly. What do you think the Gweens would have done with all that coal if it was in power?

    Key has lost his memory (and/or won’t read).

    You mean just like Hulun did?

    Novopay is a complete disaster.

    Who cares?

    The Sky City deal reeks to high heaven.

    Why? It’s perfectly straight-forward. They offered to build the conference centre, that’s why they got it. Not like Shane Jones with Liu, is it.

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  78. noskire (797 comments) says:

    Two Arabs are sitting in a Gaza Strip bar chatting over a pint of fermented goats milk. One pulls his wallet out and starts flipping through pictures and they start reminiscing.

    “This is my oldest son, he is a martyr.”

    “You must be so proud,” says the other.

    “This is my second son. He is a martyr also.”

    “A fine looking young man,” replies his friend.

    After a pause and a deep sigh, the second Arab says wistfully, “They blow up so fast, dont they?”

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  79. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Reid

    ….”Novopay is a complete disaster.

    Who cares? “…..

    About a pack of whinging socialist teachers? I’ll see if I can find someone who does & I’ll let you know. :)

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  80. Andrei (2,430 comments) says:

    An atheist professor is giving a lecture.

    “There is no God” he says, “I’ll prove it”

    “I will stand here in silence for a minute and I challenge God to strike me down within that minute to show that he exists”

    The professor stands quietly, after thirty seconds have passed he says “still standing, see it looks like there is no God”

    Then a burley ex marine comes down from the auditorium walks to the front and gives the professor a good belt on the jaw that sends him sprawling.

    “What was that for” asks the shaken professor after he has got his wits back

    “God is busy right now” the ex marine replies “so he sent me to do the striking down”

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  81. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    STUDENTS at Gold Coast universities have signed up with a website to be “sugar babies” for rich older men who pay their school fees and shower them with expensive gifts.

    Many of the women are in their teens or early 20s and are quick to deny it is a form of prostitution – insisting they do not have to sleep with the sugar daddies.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/students-sweet-talked-by-sugar-daddies-who-pay-their-school-fees/story-e6freoof-1226583827081

    There ya go.

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  82. Pete George (21,812 comments) says:

    Andrei, is that supposed to be a joke, or a lesson in what some intolerant anti-atheists dream of doing?

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  83. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    This discovery should give even Greenies & tree huggers enfeebled by their diets of chickpeas & lentils a hard on.

    A microalgae lamp’ that not only produces light, but eats CO2 has been developed. “The algae rests in water, and produces harvestable energy through photosynthesis by absorbing CO2 and sunlight. This energy is funneled into a battery and stored, which is used to power the light at night. The light energy is conveniently released from the battery only when needed. The microalgae lamp produces a friendly byproduct, oxygen, while only one of these algae lights is able to suck up 1 ton of CO2 per year. To put that in perspective, one microalgae lamp absorbs as much CO2 in one year as a tree does in it’s lifetime!”

    Ref: http://astounde.com/algae-creates-light-while-eating-co2/

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8ncv54msh24x2g5/Algae.jpg

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  84. noskire (797 comments) says:

    Viking2 (8,869) Says:
    February 23rd, 2013 at 6:06 pm
    STUDENTS at Gold Coast universities have signed up with a website to be “sugar babies” for rich older men who pay their school fees and shower them with expensive gifts.

    Many of the women are in their teens or early 20s and are quick to deny it is a form of prostitution – insisting they do not have to sleep with the sugar daddies.

    http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/students-sweet-talked-by-sugar-daddies-who-pay-their-school-fees/story-e6freoof-1226583827081

    There ya go.

    Dime, what’s your login?

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  85. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    You’d probably be able to relate to this then Andrei. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/769r0ljigtx9u1o/God%27s%20Way.jpg

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  86. Pete George (21,812 comments) says:

    Why would God prove physically that he exists to an atheist professor when he never proves physically that he exists to fervent believers?

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  87. eszett (2,269 comments) says:

    Replace a few words in Andrei’s “joke”and you can see where he is coming from:


    An atheist professor is giving a lecture.

    “There is no Allah” he says, “I’ll prove it”

    “I will stand here in silence for a minute and I challenge Allah to strike me down within that minute to show that he exists”

    The professor stands quietly, after thirty seconds have passed he says “still standing, see it looks like there is no Allah”

    Then a burley Taliban comes down from the auditorium walks to the front and gives the professor a good belt on the jaw that sends him sprawling.

    “What was that for” asks the shaken professor after he has got his wits back

    “Allah is busy right now” the Tailban replies “so he sent me to do the striking down”

    So much for his famous live and let live philosophy. Cut out from the same cloth I reckon.

    The “joke” is reminiscent of Weinberg’s famous quote

    You have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.

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  88. noskire (797 comments) says:

    A man was ordered by his doctor to lose 75 lbs. As he wondered how in the heck he would ever do that, he ran across an ad in the newspaper for a GUARANTEED WEIGHT LOSS PROGRAM.

    “Guaranteed, Yeah right!” he thought to himself. But desperate, he called them up and subscribed to the 3-day / 10 pound weight loss program.

    The next day there was a knock on his door, and when he answered, there stood before him a voluptuous, athletic, 19-year-old young gal dressed in nothing but Nike running shoes, and a sign around her neck. She introduces herself as a representative of the weight loss company.

    The sign read, “If you can catch me, you can have me!”

    Without a second thought he took off after her. A few miles later, huffing and puffing, he finally caught her and had his way with her. After they were through and she left, he thought to himself, “I like the way this company does business!”

    The same girl showed up for the next two days and the same thing happened. On the fourth day, he weighed himself and was delighted to find he had lost 10 pounds, as promised. He called the company and ordered their 5-day / 20 pound program.

    The next day there was a knock on the door and there stood the most stunning, beautiful, sexy woman he has ever seen in his life, wearing nothing but Reebok running shoes and a sign around her neck that read, “If you catch me, you can have me.” He was out the door after her like a shot. This girl was in excellent shape and it took him a while to catch her, but when he did, it was worth every cramp and wheeze. For the next four days, the same routine happened. Much to his delight, on the fifth day, he weighed himself and found he had lost another 20 lbs, as promised!

    He decided to go for broke and called the company to order the 7-day/ 50 pound program. “Are you sure?!” asked the representative on the phone. “This is our most rigorous program.”

    “Absolutely,” he replied, “I haven’t felt this good in years”

    The next day there was a knock at the door and when he opened it he found a muscular guy standing there wearing nothing but pink running shoes and a sign around his neck that read, “If I catch you, you’re mine.”

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  89. thedavincimode (6,119 comments) says:

    I’m an Orthodox Christian, on a journey that will hopefully lead to my salvation.

    Send us a note from the other side Andrei and let us know how that deviation down Bigotry Street, along Bile Parade and onto Intolerance Avenue worked out for you.

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  90. OneTrack (1,967 comments) says:

    Thanks Reid at 5:35 Covered them all off pretty well.

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  91. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    http://screencast.com/t/f7ySXCYt

    http://screencast.com/t/4n62sevf

    http://screencast.com/t/DBHkEzYzYcBz

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  92. Viking2 (10,715 comments) says:

    4:55PM Saturday Feb 23, 2013

    Cover-up: the priest, the archbishop and a hurt 14-year-old girl

    Date
    February 23, 2013

    I was abused, writes Geraldine Willesee, by a young Catholic priest whose sins were hidden.

    Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/coverup-the-priest-the-archbishop-and-a-hurt-14yearold-girl-20130222-2ewvp.html#ixzz2LhR1uxYE

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  93. RightNow (6,338 comments) says:

    reid, sorry my 12:58 had my 10:25 as its prerequisite

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  94. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    A plane flying from London to Dublin gets really, really off course & crashes in the jungle. Everyone survives the landing, but they are captured by a tribe of cannibals. By luck, their chief was educated in England & separates the passengers into two groups, Irish & Poms.

    A huge pot is prepared and a neighbouring tribe are invited for dinner. As several are tipped into the bubbling cauldron, the visiting chief asks what is for dinner.

    “It is something I learned to love in the UK,” says the chief. “It’s called Irish Stew.”

    “And what do you use them for?” asks the visitor, pointing at the cage holding several shuffling, swearing Pommies.

    “Oh, we just throw one of them in if the stew needs thickening up.”

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  95. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    You are espousing Catholicism: 2000 years of corruption, spin and lies. The idea that you need a hierarchy of priests to “interpret” the Bible for you is simply perverse.

    wat, you may as well put a copy of the Constitution in the mailbox of every American and tell them, there you are; you don’t need anyone to interpret the Law. Just read and follow the book. No need for judges or lawyers or courts.

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  96. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    Thanks for quoting me Pete George. By the way I missed your answer to my question. When you die which way are you going, up or down? Regarding your comment of no physical evidence for God, how much do you need? The evidence of changed lives when people accept Christ? The testimonies of God’s goodness through answered prayer? I could introduce you personally to 50 people tomorrow morning who will testify to you about what God has done in their lives.
    Tell you what Pete can I suggest an experiment to test your hypothesis that there is no physical evidence for God in the lives of believers? Go to any church tomorrow. Ask people what has God done in your life? Actually find out if there is any physical evidence for God in their lives?
    Cause I reckon you’ll actually find out there’s lots. But try it and report back. I’d love to hear how you get on.

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  97. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    I’ll see your God and I’ll raise you 3 Easter Bunnies and 1 Yeti.

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  98. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    Come on Nasska, that’s a fair deal, surely?

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  99. Nostradamus (2,769 comments) says:

    Scott:

    Tell you what Pete can I suggest an experiment to test your hypothesis that there is no physical evidence for God in the lives of believers? Go to any church tomorrow. Ask people what has God done in your life? Actually find out if there is any physical evidence for God in their lives?

    I would suggest Pete needs to go to a more neutral location like, say, a shopping centre. Otherwise it is a bit like asking the resident Kiwiblog idiot (Hamnida) if you’ve paid your fair share of tax. You can predict in advance what the response will be.

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  100. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    But look if you have got 50 people who can testify to what the easter bunny has done in their lives I’d be interested to hear it.

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  101. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    I see all the ‘wise ones’ are out again tonight being intolerant to what they don’t believe exists.

    Atheism expressed is a sign of madness! :cool:

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  102. eszett (2,269 comments) says:

    Scott, I am sure you can find 50 people of every religion that will testify what they think their specific version of god has done in their lives.

    Will you then accept Allah as your true and only god when you hear their testimony?
    Will you accept Scientology?
    Or will you convert to Judaism?
    Not to mention each and every variant of christianity?
    And what about Hindism? Will you stop eating beef?

    You will also find enough people who will testify how homeopathy has healed them or how their horoscope has come true.

    Or will you just reject all other testimonies and accept only the ones that confirm your beliefs?

    After all, they can’t all be true.

    This is typical to all religions and irrational beliefs. People will attribute good things that happens to devine interventions of their particular choosing or whatever they choose to believe, while bad things to anything else or ignore them all together.

    Confirmation bias at it’s best.

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  103. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    Atheism expressed is a sign of madness!

    Isn’t it a pity the mad don’t know they are?

    Lots of problems wouldn’t even arise if that weren’t the case.

    I mean just look at this thread, for example.

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  104. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    Well here we are…twelve hours later, and I am smugly amused to find the ” There is no God – Yes there is” debate still going on…again.

    Funnily enough, no-one seems to have reached a definitive conclusion, and neither side appears to have made an impression on the other…

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  105. chiz (1,095 comments) says:

    Scott:The evidence of changed lives when people accept Christ? The testimonies of God’s goodness through answered prayer? I could introduce you personally to 50 people tomorrow morning who will testify to you about what God has done in their lives.

    Show me any of these people and I will show you someone whose life has been changed by their belief in God. This distinction seems to elude many christians.

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  106. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    Eszett, you bring up a whole different question. My challenge to Pete George and to you actually, is to listen to the testimonies of church goers to test his hypothesis that there is no physical evidence for God in the lives of believers. If you and Pete took the time to talk to believers you might be surprised to hear how much God has done in their lives.

    Your question about evaluating the different religions is an interesting one. I would suggest that God, which is what most religions seek, has been uniquely revealed in the person of Jesus Christ. I can certainly testify what Jesus has done for me.

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  107. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    Not sure of your point chiz?

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  108. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    David G

    But at least it’s not AGW, gay marriage or David Bain.

    Give thanks for the small mercies that we receive. :)

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  109. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    F-35 grounded.

    It ain’t the F-15, is it.

    http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/02/22/u-s-military-grounds-f-35-fighter-jets/?hpt=hp_t3

    Combined with the issues in the F-22, I’m guessing these two fighters are the last we’ll see with human pilots and these two are going to have a relatively short service life, ten years tops.

    No more Top Gun posters on the walls of the military brats.

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  110. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    Nasska: Too true Sir, too true…those two topics – shall we call them collectively “the Scottish plays” ? – have just got to be the most pointless discussion points in modern New Zild history…

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  111. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    David Garrett, well it is a big question and an important one. Like if it’s true then that would be the most important thing a person could keep know? Like these are important issues, what is the eternal destination of your soul? On your death bed I can promise you there will be no more important question for you than that.

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  112. big bruv (12,354 comments) says:

    “I can certainly testify what Jesus has done for me.”

    Bollocks!

    First of all you would have to prove that Jesus and God exist. Since that is impossible to do you cannot testify to anything.

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  113. Nostalgia-NZ (4,688 comments) says:

    The blues won and Scott made a promise about ‘on your death bed.’
    Thank f… for rugby and sport.

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  114. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    ‘Mum, I want a bike for my birthday’ demanded Little Barry. He was a troublemaker at school and was constantly getting into trouble at home, at school and in the street. Barry’s mother asked him if he thought he deserved to get a bike for his birthday. Little Barry, of course, thought he did. Barry’s mother, being a Christian woman, wanted him to reflect on his behaviour over the last year, and write a letter to God, and tell him why he deserved a bike for his birthday.

    LETTER 1:
    Dear God,
    I have been a very good boy this year and I would like a bike for my birthday. I want a red one.
    Your friend, Barry.

    Barry knew this wasn’t true. He had not been a very good boy this year, so he tore up the letter and started again.

    LETTER 2:
    Dear God,
    This is your friend Barry. I have been a pretty good boy this year, and I would like a red bike for my birthday.
    Thank you, Barry.

    Barry knew this wasn’t true either. He tore up the letter and started again.

    LETTER 3:
    Dear God,
    I have been an OK boy this year and I would really like a red bike for my birthday.
    Your friend, Barry.

    Barry knew he could not send this letter to God either. Barry was very upset. He went downstairs and told his mother he wanted to go to church. Barry’s mother thought her plan had worked because Barry looked very sad. ‘Just be home in time for dinner,’ his mother said. Barry walked down the street to the church and up to the altar. He looked around to see if anyone was there. He picked up a statue of the Virgin Mary. He slipped it under his shirt and ran out of the church, down the street, into his house, and up to his room. He shut the door to his room and sat down with a piece of paper and a pen.

    Barry began to write his letter to God.

    LETTER 4:
    Dear God,
    I’ve got your Mum. If you ever want to see her again, Send the Fucking Bike!!

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  115. chiz (1,095 comments) says:

    The point, Scott, is that Jesus hasn’t done anything for you, it’s your belief in Jesus that has done things.

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  116. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    What a friend we have in Jesus,
    All our sins and griefs to bear!
    What a privilege to carry
    Everything to God in prayer!
    Oh, what peace we often forfeit,
    Oh, what needless pain we bear,
    All because we do not carry
    Everything to God in prayer!
    Have we trials and temptations?
    Is there trouble anywhere?
    We should never be discouraged—
    Take it to the Lord in prayer.
    Can we find a friend so faithful,
    Who will all our sorrows share?
    Jesus knows our every weakness;
    Take it to the Lord in prayer.
    Are we weak and heavy-laden,
    Cumbered with a load of care?
    Precious Savior, still our refuge—
    Take it to the Lord in prayer.
    Do thy friends despise, forsake thee?
    Take it to the Lord in prayer!
    In His arms He’ll take and shield thee,
    Thou wilt find a solace there.
    Blessed Savior, Thou hast promised
    Thou wilt all our burdens bear;
    May we ever, Lord, be bringing
    All to Thee in earnest prayer.
    Soon in glory bright, unclouded,
    There will be no need for prayer—
    Rapture, praise, and endless worship
    Will be our sweet portion there.

    :)

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  117. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    PG – “…Why would God prove physically that he exists to an atheist professor when he never proves physically that he exists to fervent believers?…”

    “…. William and Catherine Booth, the founders of the Salvation Army. Boy, talk about persecution, talk about the world hating you. They got it big time. Because they bravely proclaimed an undiluted gospel with Holy Ghost boldness, they were met with real hatred and opposition.

    They experienced persecution as a regular part of their work, yet kept on going. Indeed, just as always has been the case, they experienced demonic rage and bloody persecution coming straight out of the pit of hell. How else does one explain such horrible vitriol, scurrilous abuse, and ugly hatred?

    “Preaching on the streets was at times like preaching in hell. Teams of Salvationists faced ridicule, scorn, and hatred as they proclaimed the gospel in the degraded slums. Many of the poor and destitute were strongly atheistic, hating the name of God and fiercely opposing those who spoke of any form of religion.”

    Consider a few snippets from one such volume (Trevor Yaxley, William & Catherine. Bethany House, 2003):

    “The Booths’ message of total surrender and radical obedience to God attracted great criticism, especially in the early days. To many in the established churches, the call for no compromise, no holding anything back, no denying God in the small things, was too serious and too difficult to obtain.” (p. 121)

    “William and his helpers soon got used to the disruptions caused by drunken roughs during their open-air meetings…. They did not always come away from their open-air work unharmed. Anything opponents could find was thrown their way, and often they hit the mark. On many evenings, William would trudge the eight miles to his Hammersmith home, arriving weary and battle-scarred, his clothes stained with blood or rotten fruit and his body bruised. This was the price they had to pay as they sought to save the worst of sinners – a price they never considered too high.” (p. 125)

    “‘Make your will, pack your box, kiss your girl, be ready in a week.’ The general’s orders were clear. The level of commitment required of his workers was unmistakable – radical obedience was essential. Nothing more and certainly nothing less. Only godly go-ahead daredevils were equal to the call.” (p. 150)

    Of course they got just as much flak from the comfortable, carnal and compromised church of the day as they did from the non-Christians. Both were hard to take:

    “Just as they were willing to weather the storms of unfavorable public opinion, the early Salvationists were prepared to bear any cost to see salvation come to ordinary men and women like themselves. However, as the work of the Army expanded, the disruptions and attacks against them began to take on a more serious and sinister form. Their willingness to pay the price was regularly tested to the limit….

    And just as in the book of Acts, whenever the preaching of the gospel affected any money-making schemes (see for example Acts 16:16-40; 19:23-41), all hell broke loose:

    “By 1880 this holy Army was attracting severe opposition. Those who stood to lose the most from their success became their greatest enemies. Hotel and brothel owners faced falling profits as their previously thriving businesses began to suffer. The escalating conversion rate of many of their most loyal customers was plainly evident.” (pp. 177-178)

    So these pub and brothel owners regularly recruited and organised violent gangs to assault and stop the Salvos from marching in the streets or holding their meetings. It was an all-out war, and there were many real casualties.

    “Tragically greater injuries were also to follow. In Guildford that same year the wife of the corps officer was kicked to death. A fellow woman soldier was so severely beaten during the same parade that she also died some days later from the wounds she sustained. It is difficult to imagine this degree of persecution of Christians occurring in a ‘Christian’ nation such as Britain in the nineteenth century.

    “In Whitechapel, East London, Salvation Army lasses were tied together with rope and pelted with live coals. It was not uncommon for parades heading for the evening meetings to be showered with tar and burning sulphur. ‘Blood and Fire’ became a reality for this army of God, unfortunately not only in the way originally foreseen.” (p. 183)

    I still basically prefer the Christian West with all its faults over its competitors. But the church is always in need of revival.

    Do you want to help us Pete……or do you prefer alcohol and prostitution ‘reform’ by government?

    What’s that saying in NZ academia about child abuse -” The massed ranks of the welfare state hesitate” :cool:

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  118. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Beautiful Johnboy…..just beautiful. :)

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  119. Pete George (21,812 comments) says:

    Scott – I said on the other thread, when I die I’ll go down. That’s due to the acccepted science of gravity. My ashes will return my remains to the soil. My thoughts and memories will have gone, my being will be no longer. Not hard to work all that out.

    Where will you go?

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  120. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Harriet seems to me to be an appropriate name for a Salvation Army girl! :)

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  121. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    Of course I can big bruv. I asked Jesus into my life and then my life began to change in amazing ways. So will yours too, all you have to do is ask.
    Anyway must go. See you tomorrow morning at church :)
    God bless everybody.

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  122. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Did you ever distribute the War Cry at the St. George Hotel in the late sixties Harriet?

    If so I may have fallen in love with your stocking seams! :)

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  123. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Say a few for us while you’re on your knees anyway Scott. :)

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  124. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    It was the bonnets that revved my engine JB. :)

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  125. UglyTruth (3,053 comments) says:

    First of all you would have to prove that Jesus and God exist. Since that is impossible to do you cannot testify to anything.

    Levels of proof vary with the amount of prejudice of the individual asking for proof. A rational approach to proof is to apply the law of parsimony and ask for evidence such that the simplest explanation for the evidence is that the deity in question exists.

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  126. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    The tightly cinched waist in those little jackets emphasising the expanse of the buttocks did it for me nasska! :) :)

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  127. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    The collection box in one hand….the War Cry in the other as we took bets as to the colour of their underwear JB

    Takes me back. :)

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  128. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Did you drink at the old St. George nasska. If so I probably know you? :)

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  129. eszett (2,269 comments) says:

    Scott (1,173) Says:
    February 23rd, 2013 at 9:45 pm
    Eszett, you bring up a whole different question. My challenge to Pete George and to you actually, is to listen to the testimonies of church goers to test his hypothesis that there is no physical evidence for God in the lives of believers. If you and Pete took the time to talk to believers you might be surprised to hear how much God has done in their lives.

    lol, Scott, no, it’s not a different question, you are just trying to dodge to undeniable fact of the contradiction of your ludicrous claim.

    Such testimony is NOT physical evidence of any god.

    That testimony of people is always specific to a certain god that they happen to believe in. If they believe that their god did in fact intervene in their lives, it is not an unspecific, elusive deity, but a very personal, interventionist god.

    If you accept testimony of christians that happen to believe in your particular version of christianity and Jesus as “evidence”, you have to accept it as well to all other religions and personal experiences.

    However you will naturally reject that evidence and those religions and only accept those that suit you.

    Of course, your personal experience and the evidence that you present is not evidence for anything else other than confirmation bias of your particular beliefs, the very same way that would apply to a Jew or a Muslim.

    To paraphrase another saying, Scott, you are as much an atheist as I am, only difference is, I go one god further than you. When you understand why you reject all the other gods, you will understand why I reject yours as well.

    Specifically when it comes to your silly statement that personal testimony is evidence for god.

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  130. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Nah…I only ever had two drinks in the St George, both while we were on pub crawls. There were about 43 pubs to cover…..as you might imagine we started with jugs & ended with ponies.

    By the time we got to the St George we weren’t feeling any pain.

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  131. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    4 Johnboy

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  132. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    If that’s the new Sallies uniform I’ll renounce sheep and become a missionary Harriet! :)

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  133. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Hey, big bruv,
    hoped u enjoyed the game tonight baby.
    Now do u see what i meant by how much a little discipline can change a team overnight.

    A few haircuts
    Get rid of those pigtails
    Adios the affros and you have a team.

    what sort of a loser was Pat Lam ?
    Didn;t take much for us to come right.

    By the way, what is Pat doing these days ?

    Dime can tell you that the only reason a bloke has a pigtail is so his mate has something to
    hang onto as he …… well you know.

    Now we are on the right track again.

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  134. Nostradamus (2,769 comments) says:

    Scott:

    I asked Jesus into my life and then my life began to change in amazing ways.

    Can you give us three substantive examples of how Jesus caused your life to change in amazing ways?

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  135. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    Why don’t those of you who ask for proof, read Matthew 13. You might learn something.

    Notice I said “might.”

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  136. SPC (4,654 comments) says:

    Reid, there is no proof. But one can observe how the transition of a national cult into a world order cult was constructed. And as one would not attempt to supercede the status quo chosen of God religion, without a claim of authority to divide against the world anew, this was certainly demonstrated.

    Any authoritarian order that claims God on high will not/cannot tolerate lack of obedient belief – thus the inbuilt conspiracy theory that is designed to demonise those who dare to question by suggesting they are working for their father the adversary/the slanderer (compare Mathew 13:38 with Mathew 23:9 – the disciples being told to use the term father for God alone).

    If some politician tried this line you would be all over it, but done within the God religion tradition and you fawn on the one cloaked with the language of claim to power.

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  137. UglyTruth (3,053 comments) says:

    SPC, The existence of deity per se is not the same as the existence of deity according to the description given by the Roman cult. Truth is the final authority against religion.

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  138. big bruv (12,354 comments) says:

    bereal

    What game?

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  139. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    Wind farms will create more carbon dioxide, say scientists

    Thousands of Britain’s wind turbines will create more greenhouse gases than they save, according to potentially devastating scientific research to be published later this year.

    This is devastating news for the rabid greenies, and for the millions of people paying through the nose because of the wind power fallacy. Billions wasted.

    No problem for the environment though. CO2 is an important trace gas, and there are plenty of benefits when nature makes more available.

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  140. eszett (2,269 comments) says:

    kk, did you actually bother read more than the headline? I sincerely doubt it.

    The whole article and the study it refers to are about wind turbines only on non-degraded peatland.

    Hardly the “devastating new” and “billions wasted”

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  141. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    Nostradamus, 3 specific ways God has changed my life? Massive changes in behaviour for me, got convicted about partying, drinking and loose women and tightened up in all 3 areas. So now married for 25 years, father of 3 and leader of men. None of those things would have been possible for me before I met Jesus.
    Interestingly enough I am now a marriage celebrant and will be marrying a couple, the groom who I knew back in university. He is aghast at the changes God’s made in me.
    Previously I only cared about myself. Now I can genuinely say I try and help people and do the best for them. It’s hard to physically measure a change in the heart, but that is what has happened in my case.

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  142. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    Eszett my dear old thing. Of course one has to take personal testimony into account. If I say Jesus has done this for me then that is evidence. In the same way at an atheist conference if a speaker says I used to believe in God but now I’m an atheist I feel so much freer, that is evidence that needs to be digested and taken into account.
    In the same way someone may say that I was healed when I bathed in the Ganges river. There are many truth claims and lots of evidence. One needs to be able to assess these claims. If you have decided atheism is the truth well ok.
    I believe in Jesus, although other religions may have some of the truth, we would insist on the uniqueness of Jesus as the way, the truth and the life. If you want to truly know God then Jesus is your man.

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  143. UglyTruth (3,053 comments) says:

    If I say Jesus has done this for me then that is evidence

    Yes, it is evidence of your belief. What I think the skeptics want is evidence that can’t be explained so easily.

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  144. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    I can certainly testify what Jesus has done for me.

    The followers of every belief system in history can equally testify to the influence of their countless deities and demi-gods.

    Put another way, you have just “proven” the existence of Thor, Odin, Ra, Perseus, Loki, etc, etc ad infinitum.

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  145. Lance (2,309 comments) says:

    Good grief
    wat dabney is still banging on with his deep seated hatred of all things religious.

    I recommend you don’t feed the troll.

    He has no interest in any details, explanations or otherwise as demonstrated countless times. He has had his errors explained to him but then just carries on spouting forth those same errors. Sure there are points of difference but I see no evidence of a rational debate, just endless crude insults from wat.
    wat needs his anger towards faith like a comfort blanket and he isn’t going to give it up for anyone.

    Move on, nothing to see here.

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  146. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    banging on with his deep seated hatred of all things religious.

    By which you mean simply asking if there is any evidence for your claimed deity over and above that which exists for Apollo, Zeus, Pan or Poseidon for example. Or for the East Bunny for that matter.

    A simply ‘no’, rather than this sputtering faux outrage would at least leave you with a bit of dignity.

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  147. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    A changed life is evidence. The testimony of someone whose life has changed is evidence. As I said choosing between the truth claims of different religions is an issue. But again I haven’t proved the existence of Odin by saying I believe in Jesus. It’s not an all or nothing proposition? Either you believe in all religions or you believe in none?
    As I said most religions are seeking God. We would say they may have part of the truth but the truth is found only in Christ, who is the way, the truth and the life.
    Hopefully that’s clear?

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