The importation of guns allowed the balance of power to tilt at first to the northern maori They made great use of this new form of warfare wiping out entire tribes and displacing thousands. As other tribes armed the balance was eventually restored The Utu was not. Most of those chiefs signing the treaty would have been very aware that their traditions demanded of them to revenge the carnage at some future stage and/or face the tribes that to retain mana had to take Utu.

Signing away the chieftainship of the whole country stopped the endless rounds of fighting. The importation of easily grown food allowed maori to jump from semi hunter gathering to farming in a generation. the imposition of the rule of law limited the warfare and it slowly died out over the next 50 years. Again modern revisionist history focuses on only the European maori conflict when it talks of the New Zealand wars later. These too had elements of the earlier maori society driving them not just the settler maori conflict.

http://youtu.be/Jj4EWAhMTb4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ7g1uUYe9M

http://www.fresnobee.com/2013/02/02/3158070/man-who-rammed-his-car-into-pge.html

Then, the end is in sight, yes. Most normal people ignore what is happening on the day anyway. And those that protest have a right to do so and it is healthy and natural (although physically attacking the PM of the day or other dignitaries isn’t)

I’m sorry but I really don’t understand any of the supposed relationship between the supposed “real” meaning of the treaty and “suppose” biased missionaries views. It all sounds a bit like Ansell’s speil to me. There’s a million different views of history but in a situation like this you don’t gain anything by looking back at it (just look at any number of countries at perpetual war around the globe because of greivances over history). You gain an appreciation of where you’ve come from.

Paul Moon points out that there are some popular myths about the treaty and that maybe some people will use this Waitangi Day to learn more about the events behind the slogans, and acquaint themselves with the intriguing history that sprouts from the Treaty but I think we are a long way from Post colonial cringe is trying to rewrite our history. and our future – that sounds very odd, pessimistic outlook to me.

De boris says”That’s reality. We’re not at the point that everybody has a good sense of indigenous rights and Treaty rights.
His idea of treaty rights is not contained in the document it is contained in the wants on maori to take control of as much as they can grab.
read the official history and background of the treaty and as Paul points out it is a load of bullshit

Ie http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/treaty/the-treaty-in-brief
Growing numbers of British migrants arrived in New Zealand in the late 1830s, and there were plans for extensive settlement. Around this time there were large-scale land transactions with Māori, unruly behavior
No its the nasty settlers that are at fault by some settlers and signs that the French were interested in annexing New Zealand. The British government was initially unwilling to act, but it eventually realized that annexing the country could protect Māori, regulate British subjects and secure commercial interests.

Where is the fact that 40.000 maori had been slaughtered by the fallow man that entire tribes had been wiped out that over half of Maori where displace refugees and slaves. That the problem the treaty solved was this warfare and the treaty was more about bringing the maori under law than bringing the settles to heel. The oft repeated lawlessness is projected from the missionary’s that had a biased view of reality as they still do.
This bullshit permeates all discussion around the treaty

Post colonial cringe is trying to rewrite our history. and our future

Overnight the moron admitted that his injuries were of his own doing and that the Police had done nothing wrong.

Another case of cause and effect. If this moron had followed the lawful and reasonable instruction by the Police to ‘Stop’, the resulting accident / long term injuries would not have occurred. Even he can understand that part….

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10863479

I was not implying that your reading wasn’t valid or was thoughtless. I was implying, again, that Ansell is a nut job and there’s a bunch of people obvious enamoured with him who actually listen to what he says like the Gospel. These people are the antithesis of the radicals on the other side whom everyone is sick of seeing on Waitangi Day so why replace them with another bunch of chanting outliers?

Personally I don’t have a problem with the day, or the protests – it’s just natural. And, as Azeraph says, I’m not threatened by it. I imagine a good deal of Ansell’s audience have a great deal of fear, uncertaintly and doubt themselves so it’s easy for him to feed off that.

Interesting article by Paul Moon, incidentally. Perhaps try this one featuring the very same, from this morning, for size which suggests that all the fear, incertainty and doubt is just public perception and perhaps if everyone got their tail out of their legs there’d be something to be happy about:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/maori/news/article.cfm?c_id=252&objectid=10863469

Yes.

Do you see any slowing?

Yes

Are you honestly threatened by anything from it?

Yes

or is it in everyone’s minds only?

No

You’re only truly threatened if any of your own personal money is tied into it.

Er, the threats are not just financial they’re also social. If you don’t see that some people who benefit from the treaty have turned it into a gravytrain industry with no benefits to anyone but themselves, you don’t understand this country in any way.

Such behaviour and the tolerance of it thereof also raises expectations, hence you eventually get, as we now have, gajillions of idiot pointless ceremonies and events springing up all over the place, as exemplified by David’s comment above. This is just the tip of the bullshit, and the more it happens the more people wake up and smell the roses. This is dangerous because on the one side you have a group of people who have become accustomed to having their every mental whim catered to by a stupid fat cash cow and on the other side you have the people who pay for the stupid fat cash cow gradually realising they’re being taken for a ride by the aforesaid group.

Given human behaviour is what it is, what pray tell Az, do you think is eventually going to happen?

You’re only truly threatened if any of your own personal money is tied into it.

I would be surprised if the gay marriage bill didn’t go through but if it didn’t then i would be happy that we have not jumped on the kool aid with the rest of the world, dopamine junkies. Eventually it will though.

The world is changing faster than we realize.

Because it makes so much more sense for people to shout their over-stated opinions at the top of their lungs at each other?

Incidentally, doing it the “non-PC” way just means I don’t care enough about anything to actually put any thought into what I’m saying or doing in the public forum – I just want to shoot my mouth off and then not have to take any responsbility for what happens. Which is what he does. And there’s no difference between what he does and what Hone does. Except I actually think Hone is better at it than him. Probably because he’s been doing it his whole life, right?

Paul Moon is one of the most honest commentators on the history of the treaty.
Ansel’s focus on mythical Celts and unsigned treaty’s is a distraction.

Azeraph is quite right, Thank god the Yanks didn’t get a hold here!

Yes it’s a shame no-one can, apparently, agree on what it means though, isn’t it.

And that some politicians seem to imagine that while this state of affairs exists it’s a very good idea to put some vague wording like “the principles of the treaty” into legislation, that the courts, in particular the SC, is then free to interpret as they wish, with a Chief Justice who just happens to have a background in Maori advocacy.

Ah well. What an “accident.” Nothing designed about that, at all, was there. Of course not, it was just a bunch of stuff that just happened. Everyone knows that.

There’s something strange going on up there, Their killing native Indian women in droves, some sort of serial killer groups targeting them as the police won’t or are lax when it has to do with native affairs. It’s the Canadians themselves and the crazy french who thought they could go it alone with out the Indian support. guess what the Indians told them, we don’t have a treaty with you or France. He he.

He may very well be considered and knowledgable but he clearly does not have a humanistic bone in his body and does not use his knowledge in a way that would pro-actively help. As such, he is the antithesis of the radicals on the other side and I’d consider him just as worthy of derision.

They don’t want to show it do they.

Frak we’ve become so corporatized the blind fail to see the leaves falling but they still believe and it’s hard to wake them as no one wants to see what’s coming.

Why even give that nut job Ansell time. Jeees, he’s worse than Brian Tamaki spitting out his deranged associations. He’s the as much of a reason that Waitangi Day is the way it is as Hone, just, obviously, in the inverse direction.

I suspect that ‘krazykiwi’ is using his influence with “The Big Guy Upstairs” to torture me.

Yeah, I ordered pestilence and got precipitation. Grrr. Must try harder