The Silver Fern
February 7th, 2013 at 1:00 pm by David FarrarAmelia Wade at NZ Herald reports:
New Zealanders are adopting the Silver Fern as the national flag because they identify with it more than the Southern Cross, a leader for a republican movement claims.
Flag campaigner Lewis Holden said New Zealand needed a flag that Kiwis connected with and related to, rather than one which gets confused with the Australian flag. …
Mr Holden said it was evident at sports matches and events of national significance that New Zealanders preferred to wave the Silver Fern.
“And from pictures I’ve seen of the Waitangi Day pub crawl in London, very few people actually had New Zealand flags – they were all draped in Silver Ferns or Southern Crosses.”
I agree. You also see it with Kiwis hitchhiking around the world. The Silver Fern is the emblem of choice.
Labour spokesman for Arts, Culture & Heritage, Charles Chauvel, who put forward the New Zealand Flag Bill in 2010, said the Government needed to address the issue. …
Mr Chauvel’s bill, which is waiting to be drawn, seeks to create a commission which must spend 18 months seeking public input on the status of the national flag.
The commission would be appointed by the Prime Minister after consulting all parliamentary leaders.
As part of its functions, it would hold a nationwide competition for new flag designs, ranking the three that best reflect national identity, aspirations, culture and heritage.
While my personal preference is for the Silver Fern, I like the idea of a national competition. The final decision should be made by the public in a referendum.
Related posts:
- Flying the Fern Flag
- Choose your preferred Fern flag
- Guest Post:Broadband is the silver bullet
- Flags and Republics
February 7th, 2013 at 1:03 pm
Hey don’t look at the economy, look over here! Change the flag, ditch the monarchy, have a constitution…..bread and circuses.
[DPF: What are you on about? The Government is not proposing any changes. This is a new story about a suggestion by Lewis Holden? You need to reduce your anxiety medication that everything is a conspiracy]
February 7th, 2013 at 1:09 pm
That ‘s what happened in Canada, and the flag they ended up with is terrific. More than just a Maple Leaf and unique in that it wasn’t seen as “owned” by any existing organisation.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:09 pm
The economy is going great. Growth is up, unemployment is down and the future is getting brighter and brighter. Time for a Silver Fern Flag.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:12 pm
Great. On the favoured black background looks like a white feather.
Khmer Rouge and Al Qaeda black plus the international symbol of cowardice.
Brilliant graphics design.
February 7th, 2013 at 1:15 pm
call me old fashioned, but i kinda like the flag i grew up with. the flag a lot of guys died fighting under
the silver ferm is popular with hitchikers because they take it to sport events (too cheap to buy an offical all blacks flag).
change for the sake of change pisses me off. a vocal minority who will just go on and on and on until they get what they want.
February 7th, 2013 at 1:15 pm
The picture I remember from the news coverage, was two Policemen holding the New Zealand flag between them.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:15 pm
Anohter distraction for the masses from the wonderful job this brave government is doing. Hence, we need a new flag.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:16 pm
Fisiani at 1.09:
What are you on today?
Whatever it is, can you get some for us all.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:17 pm
There’s been a fair bit of that lately.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:21 pm
We have had competitions before.
Vote:We certainly need a new flag. I quite liked a design I saw with NZ as the whole flag, or you could have a small NZ in the top corner where the Union Jack is now and still leave the stars.
At present it is hopeless with our flag and the Australian flag looking virtually the same, though I understand they are looking at changing theirs.
February 7th, 2013 at 1:25 pm
This is a republican news release timed for New Zealand Day,beyond that it has no merit.
Why establish a commission to look into a new flag when a referendum at the same time as a general election will get a picture of public sentiment.
A silver fern is OK as a sports flag,not as the national flag.
Finally who is this HOLDEN guy who doesn’t like being identified as Australian?
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:25 pm
Nothing to do with distractions.
I like the Canadian flag. I don’t particularly like NZ’s current flag. What people did or didn’t die under in the past isn’t really relevant – they didn’t die for the flag, they died for our country, and more to the point they died for a set of values that they (or at least the politicians who sent them believed in).
As to whether the silver fern looks like a white feather….yeah, it might to some people. But if it became established in people’s mind then I think it becomes a symbol.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:27 pm
Why do you want Helen Clark to be our first President David?
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:27 pm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/9829961/New-flag-proposed-for-Australia.html
I reckon this design looks ok for the proposed Australian new flag.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:29 pm
Dave Stringer at 1.09:
What happened in Canada is that the wimps who live in the 200km band along the US border are giving the rest of the vast country to the Canadian Indians and Eskimo.
If you are going to pick a flag purely on graphic design the Canadian flag isn’t bad at all. Otherwise, however, it’s a Maple syrupy flag for a politically correct mob who are blowing the chance to build a big, strong, wealthy country.
As for Muggins” flag competition (1.28 post): you don’t get national symbols from play competitions.
What’s wrong with having a flag like Australia’s any way? We are like Australia. And maybe Australia will change its flag first and leave the Southern Cross stars to us. As for the Union Jack in the corner of the NZ flag: it has historic significance, as does the Union Jack in the Hawaii state flag. The Southern Cross would have been undoubtedly used by Polynesian navigators and gives us a bicultural link.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:30 pm
No doubt about it – a new flag, queers marrying, etc – thats going to solve all our problems…………………….
Keep this up and well get the harawira nasty protest flag
February 7th, 2013 at 1:33 pm
Re Muggisn at 1.22:
So you like Blaxland’s proposal for a new Aussie flag?
Are you viewing it on your computer screen? If so you must have left your sunglasses on by mistake.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:34 pm
Why do all these new flags look like they’ve been designed by advertising agencies? I thought the ideas that John Ansell had on his blog, probably this time last year, were awful but thanks to muggins I see the Australians have out done us again.
I think they’re picking the wrong definition of “colour blind” there.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:44 pm
I think the debate about a new flag is premature. We should wait until such time there has been a referendum agreeing to become a republic and have a competition run at the same time. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it now. I like our current flag as it sits well with us being a Constitutional Monachy. Now’s not the time for change. By all means have the debate but changing it now is not the time.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:45 pm
If/when NZL ditches it’s ties with the monarchy (which will follow after Aust does the same) then that is the time to proceed with a new flag. Certainly not before. And please, nothing like our self appointed Mr Cricket Cringe with that rather weird thing of his own creation that he struts around with placing himself in the lens of OBUs around the world that haven’t yet twigged to the fact that he is to be avoided at all cost.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:52 pm
The Silver Fern is the emblem of choice.
The silver fern is the emblem of choice for sports fans. As a national flag, it would be (as pointed out above) a black banner with the Western world’s symbol for cowardice on it.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:54 pm
Something based on the silver fern is the obvious choice, it’s just a matter of time before enough of the conservative old royalists die off – excpet that it isn’t reliant at all on being a monarchy, if we chose we have a right to have any flag we like.
The white feather criticism is pathetic – I don’t see many teams thinking of white feathers in relation to the All Blacks. The English rose is far more pooftery.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:56 pm
Really?
They should stick to the kangaroo with boxing gloves on IMHO…
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:56 pm
If we must dump our treasured flag, let’s take the bridles of the lefties and go for it. Let’s have a digital flag instead of a fabric one like everyone else.
This will be generated by holograms transmitted from the ground, and cleverly designed so that it waves with the wind, which will be continuously measured by attached devices.
On the electronic “flag”, moving images will be in 3D. More firsts for this clever country where everyone is born with a No. 8 wire cutter. The “flag” will display moving clips typical of our country and our so-unique culture. It will have sound, too, alternating between Maori and English, and in the bottom left corner, a frame carrying sign language translations.
Richie McCaw tackling, a haka party in action, John Key smiling, Helen Clark putting on lipstick, Valerie Adams putting the shot, Winston storming out of Parliament, a local body politician pissing in the street, native bird after native bird flying off into the sky as if leaping out of the electronic frame, Conservation Department helicopters, Greens folk dancing, boozed teenage boys fighting,teenage street girls, Chinese and Indian settlers arriving, and a rocket blasting off to symbolise our mighty NZ dollar.
Instead of being unnoticed in a row of old-hat fabric flags at international competitions and sports events, we at last WILL BE NOTICED!
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 1:59 pm
You’d have to be daft or blind to confuse the white feather here – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_feather – with a silver fern. And it has opposite meanings anyway:
Again, the All Blacks with a silver fern have no link with or perception of cowardice.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:00 pm
And what backpackers do or don’t do, isn’t an argument for ANYTHING.
Backpackers travel the world on the cheap, hanging out with other privileged 1st world kids who are also backpacking, drinking jager bombs and vodka red bulls and dancing to european techno music in irish bars in all corners of the earth.. while boring anyone who will listen to death with anecdotes about the All Blacks, who are really good at an oddball sport you probably haven’t heard of. Fuck them. And certainly don’t get rid of the flag because of them.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:01 pm
Here the country is absolutely struggling economically. Over 25% of our young people are out of work! Families are breaking down, one 3rd of marriages are ending in divorce. Every year a whole city of New Zealanders moves to Australia. And the people of Christchurch are struggling to live day to day.
And right now we need to be discussing having a new flag? I cannot think of a lower priority for our nation, apart from something like say – gay marriage?
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:03 pm
black flag with dark blue panel in the middle containing the southern cross as it is on our current flag. that would be ace.
I say we reject the feather one that looks like a logistics company logo or something and go for something more piratey to reflect our excellent seafaring and fighty past.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:04 pm
Yes Scott, the economy is all important, we should only talk about the economy until it is sorted out. Then we should have a referendum on what our next topic will be. All media including bloggers should be bound by this single minded focus.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:05 pm
The silver fern has been used on our military insignia since the Boer War I believe, and also appears on our national Coat-of-Arms. I’m not convinced it’s quite the break from the past some are making out.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:05 pm
Why Jack5
Could it be you’re from dbelow te 29th parallell?
Canada seems to do alright by keeping most of its wealth in the ground and using it up a little at a time, their cost of oil beased commodities is bloody good compared to those who have to import theirs from the Fiddle East! Much better than getting it all out in one generation and leaving future generations with no core assets to maintain a life-style, like the Ozzies are doing with their mineral wealth..
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:06 pm
Yawn. The International symbol for “I can’t be away from New Zealand for five minutes without letting someone know you’re from New Zealand” is All Black merchandise of some type, whether shirt or cap.
Then you open your mouth and speak Australian.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:12 pm
“[DPF: What are you on about? The Government is not proposing any changes. This is a new story about a suggestion by Lewis Holden? You need to reduce your anxiety medication that everything is a conspiracy]”
Yup I can read. You publish what you are interested in. This would get approximately zero air time otherwise. Maybe you are fascinated with changing the flag and hence your repeated posts on the topic; your blog, your right.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:16 pm
Changing the flat to the silver fern does not comply with the principles of the treaty of Waitangi .
Simply can’t be done. You need a flag which has the support of all the maori tribes.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:17 pm
@PhilP (12) Says:
Actually, I think it’s overdue. People are already letting us know what they prefer by voting with their feet and their dollars. It’s not just hitch-hikers that eschew using the official NZ flag. I can’t see how you can claim the national flag is emblematic when basically every representative team & the like, says no thanks, we’d rather use a silver-fern
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:18 pm
The whole issue is crap
The silver fern was I thought trademarked by NZRFU in one format, so why should we adopt it
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:18 pm
Now slow down all you maple leaf lovers.
Canada has TWO flags – the original and the maple leaf. Yes the maple leaf is more common now – but it took a long time to slowly change over. The flag with the union jack on is still used.
In fact the supreme flag of canada is the Queens standard and the National flag is actually inferior.
The two official national flags are:
The maple leaf & the Union flag (the union jack)
Add to this all the provincial flags and many flags used in canada that had – and have – union jacks in them – and youll see that Canada didnt and hasnt changed to another national flag. They added an alternate National Flag.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
Except that DPF is quoting from an NZ Herald article that gets much wider coverage in print and online media.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:41 pm
Pete – standing for parliament again?
“before enough of the conservative old royalists die of” – a comment like that will go down well. certainly helped national in the last election.
What makes you think its just old people that like the status quo? not all of us are girly “progressives” like yourself.
Im sure if you polled people under 30 they would kick the royals to the curb.
A poll of 30 – 40 years olds may look different though
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:54 pm
Well yes Pete. It is a matter of priorities. And this government is really struggling to get the economy moving and to get people back to work. The last thing we need right now is another distraction about another non-issue that is of supreme interest to a tiny minority of New Zealanders.
Sometimes you just have to concentrate on the basics. Otherwise even a country can go down the gurgler. Greece and Spain are good examples.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 2:57 pm
A survey from three years ago (February 2010):
As the pro change demographic moves up the age band it is likely to keep shifting towards wanting a change.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 3:03 pm
I think Will & Harry are giving the English Monarchy a real new lease on life among those of us who are their age. A surprising number of people on my Facebook mention them positively every once in a while. This even came up about a month ago when I was drinking at Mac’s with some boys from way back. None of us are at all what you’d call royalists, but we all agreed W & H seem like top blokes. We’d have them as head of state over Helen Clark or Colin Meads.
(And in particular we think Harry and his Army boys should take Justin Bieber out for a hard night on the turps in Vegas. The media coverage of the carnage would be awesome.
And it might even harden the little guy up a bit. )
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 3:06 pm
RRM – the fact that william and the army guys son are good bastards must really piss the republican movement off.
PG – its funny how “democracy” is used to justify a change that a person wants, yet is totally ignored other times. eg smacking.
ask most dimwits if they want a change in just about anything and they will say sure.
Question: should the all blacks add more colour to their uniform?
52% of people said yes. 23% of people say a fluro pink shirt would look good.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 3:22 pm
“call me old fashioned, but i kinda like the flag i grew up with. the flag a lot of guys died fighting under”
You’re old-fashioned,. Utterly, hopelessly, tediously old-fashioned.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 3:27 pm
Tom – apart from the technology, its 1950 in Dimes house
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 3:30 pm
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/image.cfm?c_id=1&gal_cid=1&gallery_id=109084#6824422
There you go,47 to choose from.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 3:35 pm
Pete George at 2:57 pm: If you have “concerns as to whether the people of New Zealand are capable of making a considered, sane decision” when it comes to a four-year parliamentary term, why would this be any different?
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 4:04 pm
“Again, the All Blacks with a silver fern have no link with or perception of cowardice.”
Pete I know how much you like to put in a plug for your beloved ‘heroes’ but the All Blacks are pretty well known around the rugby world for cowardly attacks. They lost a hell of a lot of respect with the cowardly spear tackle on O’Driscoll and the arrogant cover-up that followed. And more recently a chap named Hore (who enjoys the manly pursuit of blasting protected wildlife in his spare time) rather cowardly king-hit a Welshman from behind.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
“They lost a hell of a lot of respect with the cowardly spear tackle on O’Driscoll and the arrogant cover-up that followed.”
bullshit. the lions acted like whiny bitches.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 4:29 pm
So you would be perfectly okay if two of the Lions had spear tackled Dan Carter OFF THE BALL and crashed him down onto his neck? Putting him out for the season??
Vote:All Black eye patches off here Dime. Taking O’Driscoll out was disgraceful,cheating bullshit…
February 7th, 2013 at 4:35 pm
So our flag looks similar to Australia’s SO WHAT? The Aussies wont be changing their flag anytime soon and niether should we. If we did you can guarantee it would be hijacked by the pc brigade and it would end up containing a rainbow/tree/pregnant women all in a native design & made of natural renewable resources.
Vote:Every year the MSM roll out the same tired old Republicans on Australian Day/Waitangi Day repeating the same old BS they espouse every time the MSM give them oxygen. I say if it aint broke dont fix it.
Check out the flags of Holland, Russia, Serbia, Croatia, Slovakia, Slovenia maybe they’re all having this very same debate but I doubt it somehow.
February 7th, 2013 at 4:48 pm
No. Don’t let’s adopt the Silver Fern in the New Zealand flag.
The ‘Silver Fern” looks like a feather – a white feather.
For those who may not know it, the white feather is a universally recognised mark of cowardice.
During WW1 white feathers would be sent anonymously to men who were evidently reluctant to volunteer for military service.
The Silver Fern will always look like a white feather. To adopt it as a formal, official New Zealand emblem is a bad idea.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 4:58 pm
Hmm, I’ve never heard this “It looks like a white feather” objection before, and DPF has raised this All Blacks flag idea many times before. It seems almost.. contrived the way so many are raising that objection all of a sudden. It should be easy enough to draw it in such a way that it doesn’t look like a feather.
Andrew Hore is a dirty fckn animal, not the first they’ve had playing for them. It’s a pity none of those seals he bashed/shot (?) didn’t give as good as it got. But he’s hardly an argument for or against the flag on his own either.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 5:15 pm
Re-RRM at 4.58
Hi there RRM. With reference to your never having heard before the above objection to using a white feather/fernleaf on a future NZ flag, all I can say is that people just haven’t bothered to post.
That doesn’t detract from the fact that using anything that resembles a white feather on our flag is a bad idea.
I obviously can’t speak for the blogosphere and bloggers as a whole, but certainly when this old chestnut – (“Gee, why not getta new flag!!) – has come up in social conversation, I for one have always pointed out the folly of adopting a universally recognised tsymbol of cowardice as part of our national flag.
On that, I always have a quiet smile to myself when the ABs run out proudly bearing this ambiguous symbol on their chests.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 5:22 pm
I have never thought of a white feather when I have looked at a silver fern. It bears no resemblance to me. I’ve never heard it being confused with a white feather, I have only heard it likened to a white feather by a few people who oppose using the silver fern for yet another means of identifying New Zealand.
None of the current uses of the silver fern seem to have any problem with it being mistaken for a white feather.
Talking about resemblances, our current flag looks very much like an Australian flag, and always have to look closely to tell them apart, and I know many people can’t tell the difference easily if at all.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 5:26 pm
OK Pete, you have your view, I have mine.
Still looks like a white feather (ie universal symbol of cowardice) to me!!
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 5:29 pm
Pete George:
Can’t tell the difference? Really?
Can’t differentiate between our 4 stars and the Australian 6 stars (including the great big star under the union jack)?
Can’t tell white stars (Australia) versus red stars (NZ)?
Best refer them to SpecSavers, Pete – they must be blind.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 5:30 pm
I’m against changing the flag. Changing the flag is a step away from the Crown, which you all realise entails a step into a written constitution that will almost certainly be written by very Left wing academics.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 5:51 pm
Get it right.
Vote:Our Flag does not look like the Australian Flag – the Australian Flag looks like OUR Flag!
February 7th, 2013 at 6:27 pm
Elaycee – virtually anyone outside New Zealand and Australia won’t know the difference, and many withing probbaly don’t know either. Particularly at a glance, waving in the breeze.
Imagine Australia versus New Zealand, a stadium full of official flags waving – who would tell any of them apart?
There’s a good reason why the silver fern on black flag has become the de facto sports symbol.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 7:20 pm
“New Zealanders are adopting the Silver Fern as the national flag because they identify with it more than the Southern Cross, a leader for a republican movement claims.”
Personally I don’t care about flag issues. But this phrase is another example of the disgusting practice of opening a line with a statement of fact, only to sneak in that it’s just one person’s opinion.
Why do they do it?
Is it because if we read:
…we’d stop after the 7th word?
It’s just stupid! Do they think they’re smart misleading us like that? Every. Single. Story. It just shows the journalist out for the scummy shit they are.
Vote:February 7th, 2013 at 9:30 pm
I don’t think people wave Silver Ferns because they choose it as an emblem of country but because it’s already a much used emblem of sports teams.
And I don’t think it makes for a good flag nor does it make sense to assume because it’s popular in sports that New Zealand is naturally identified by it.
I would think a Koru would likely make a better national flag when we dump that British Ensign.
Vote:February 8th, 2013 at 12:59 am
The one at the Herald is getting close to the best compromise option.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10863680
It’s distinct from both the sporting flag (silver fern on black) and the Maori sovereignty flag – but brings together components of both. It also has the southern cross of the existing flag cross – I’d only change the background colour for the stars so they are on a black background as they appear in the night sky.
I suspect the reason why we have black as a national “colour” is because being the antipodeans our night is when the “home country” was in daytime.
Vote:February 8th, 2013 at 7:06 am
Lol…yeah, let’s have a national flag with a symbol that looks like a white feather (the international sign of cowardice)
Just leave the bloody flag as it is thanks.
Vote:February 8th, 2013 at 7:10 am
Is that what those facing the AB haka think?
Vote:February 8th, 2013 at 7:23 am
SPC
I suspect not. Those facing the rain dance wonder why they are forced (yes, forced) to stand there and show “respect” to a bunch of mainly PI’s and white men sticking their tongues out and stamping their feet.
Believe it or not SPC those facing the rain dance are not traumatised by it, they are not scared out of their boots. Mostly they are bored by it and highly pissed off that they are forced to show the rain dance respect and not allowed to challenge it.
As for me, well I am embarrassed by it. When there is a game on TV featuring the NZ team I always change the channel while the team in black perform the rain dance. It is the height of cultural cringe as far as I am concerned.
Vote:February 8th, 2013 at 8:15 am
You think those seeing the silver fern on the AB jersey are thinking it looks like a white feather? Really?
This also the case when our army teams, WW2 and K Force did the haka wearing the fern?
Vote:February 8th, 2013 at 9:07 am
Geez… lots of interesting posts on this one…
I’d say the current flag with the Union Jack in the corner is losing it’s relevance to the great melting pot of Nzders now making up 60% of Auckland.
It’s too similar to the Australian flag. You shouldn’t have to ‘work out’ which fuckin flag is yours, eh? That’s just dumbness of the highest order.
What’s this white feather shit? From when? WWII? Oh please…. no-one’s that old now… fuck me. You’d have to be ten millionty years old to remember WWII and what’s the internet take-up of that demographic?
I’m genuinely surprised at the number of ‘keep the flag’ and ‘keep the flag because of white feather issues’ posts. I’ve never come across that argument until reading this thread but that’s a good one. Learn something new everyday on kiwiblog.
Vote:February 8th, 2013 at 9:47 pm
Muggins you’ve just identified yourself as a prized turkey for not being able to tell the difference between the NZ and Australian flag. “Virtually the same” – try using those things called eyes on the front of your face sometime.
Vote: