Drug murders are caused by drug murderers.

Government over-regulation and poor tax policies resulted in the GFC, and the war on drugs has made the illicit drug industry huge in mexico and ruled by thugs.

I think recently I read here that there have been a couple of cases of food poisoning as people put their meat in the bags and the juices run out and then contaminate other foods.

To me this is PC madness.

Incidentally when did you see the “white river” in Spain? When I grew up in Gisborne 40 odd years ago we used to have turds floating onto the beaches, and even lungs and other unwanted bits of offal from the abbatoir outfall which discharged right onto the beach. Everyone has learned a lot since them days.

I dont think there is much argument that of the two, plastic bags have a more detrimental impact on the enviroment than paper ones. I have never heard of a dolphin or a seal being killed by a wet paper bag.

“like fish and chip people arent allowed to use newspaper any more – might kill someone – dont know how)”

That’s silly, you can eat fish & Chips out of newsprint paper just fine, however you can’t eat it out of standard newspaper. Its not the paper which is the problem its the inks which tend to contain heavy metals. The fat lifts the newsprint off and if you had fish & chips too often you would exceed the safe level on several heavy metals.

For the F&C industry paper manufactures now make fake newsprint, which looks like old newspapers but they have been printed with safe inks.

I don’t know about you but personally I like my Fish & Chips with vinegar not lead and chromium

Paper production requires the cutting down of trees – that takes tons of oil – and the processing into a sheet of paper. And although brown paper isnt as dirty as white paper – they still have to use tons of chemicals – mainly to make sure that the paper is “Safe” to put food into. (like fish and chip people arent allowed to use newspaper any more – might kill someone – dont know how)

And Paper IS NOT biodegradable unless its wet – and in many landfills it never gets wet – so just sist there. Which isnt so bad actually. Probably less damage than breaking down and releasing all the glue and binders into the ground. Paper is not as clean and green as everyone thinks.
A paper sack takes a lot more energy to make than a typical shopping bag (but no where near as much as the reuseable bags)

Being the environmentally conscious right winger that I am, if I had a choice of supermarkets selling the same range of products for a similar price, and one used brown paper bags instead of plastic, the former would get my business every time. And yes, I am quite serious.

Someone has to offset Lucy Lawless’ carbon footprint

Renewables need a level playing field but not subsidies as subsides lead to boom / bust cycles.
I have no time for comments about renewables being crap, neither are they a silver bullet for our energy needs. They are another option in the tool kit as the part of any well planned power system.
Renewable systems need smart grid and demand-side management to be practical, standalone renewbale (variable) generation is patently idiotic but alas what we have seen implemented.

Alas a lot of the idiocy was on the behest of the windfarm advocates keen on making huge profits at the tax payer expense, where to implement demandside and smart grid would have reduced their cut of the pie. And the fools who implement the policy to make it happen.

Wind-turbines are not bad per-sae. The fucked up rollout has been.

Some people need to sit down and THINK about the future of power and the most cost-effective and secure way of implementing it with all the advantages and disadvantages associated with the choices. This has not been done, anywhere on earth from what I can see.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/24444260

There’s really no point in not having plastic bags.
A 2011 study by the NCPA found that in places where plastic bags are banned, they experience a drop of 5.7% in sales.

According to the study, commerce in incorporated businesses has been dealt a significant blow in the year following the bag ban. While unincorporated businesses, free of the regulations, reported nine percent overall growth, those within jurisdiction reported a decline around six percent. The decline in growth also brought a spike in unemployment for incorporated businesses.

Should the trend of banning plastic bags grow more widespread, such stark unemployment numbers call into further question the damage that may be done to an entire sector of American manufacturing. The study notes that “most thin-film plastic bags are made in the United States, and the plastics manufacturing industry employs more than 30,000 people directly and many more indirectly.” In contrast, “most reusable bags are imported.”
As such, the study reasons that widespread deployment of bag bans nationwide would result in potentially crippling economic impact on an entire industry that has provided Americans with jobs.
Reinforcing the study’s notion is the sharp decline in bag production.
NCPA further challenges the supporters’ entire reasoning for banning plastic bags: that plastic bags deal woe to the environment. In terms of energy produced, the study notes that plastic bags require 182,361 kcal but recover “2,581.3 through combustion.”
However, paper bags fare far worse, observing that they require “three times as much energy consumption as plastic bags (626,672.9 kcal), whereas only 6,859.5 kcal can be recovered through consumption.”

The study – http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/st340.pdf

I have 2 cotton and 1 linen reusable (no plastic in any of them) and two plastic reusable.

The linen one might be hemp – I wounder if its possible to smoke it?

Some mold is eating both of the cotton ones …..

I don’t know about where you live but here in West Auckland many of the reusable bags have no plastic in them.(except possible an insert) I know the ones you are talking about, they are mainly made from recycled plastic not fresh.

“Sb @ 12:22 pm ….. the equivalence in cost is more than 50 times.”

The experts on such things say 25-60 as I said.

“2. Make the supermarkets more profit (because they give away the standard shopping bag – but deluded people buy the reuseable ones.”

In other words people have a choice – whats wrong with that?

Oh dear….. Theres hardly a fabric today that isnt some form of plastic. These bags are all made from Polyester. Its the same stuff used to make coke bottles…..
And it cant be recycled if the original is coloured (because all you can make is black)

Grendel @ 12:18 pm … you are quite right. Reuseable bags are a complete con. They cost more than the equivalent number of ordinary shopping bags, they last longer, they are dirty.

Sb @ 12:22 pm ….. the equivalence in cost is more than 50 times. If they dont last that long – they are more costly and more wasteful.

the only two things reuseable bags do are:
1. Make morons feel good.
2. Make the supermarkets more profit (because they give away the standard shopping bag – but deluded people buy the reuseable ones.