A difficult case
March 8th, 2013 at 6:46 am by David FarrarStuff reported:
A 6-year-old girl with violet hair has become the unlikely poster child for the transgender people’s rights after her United States school barred her from using the girls’ bathroom.
The family of Coy Mathis has filed a civil rights lawsuit against her Colorado school over the issue, which has become a cause celebre since hitting the headlines last week, CNN reported.
Coy was born a boy but according to her mother she started expressing herself as a girl at the age of 18 months.
When the behaviour continued, the parents sought medical advice and were told that their child was transgender – a little girl in a boy’s body.
Though they diagnosed Coy as having a gender identity disorder, doctors recommended against surgery until she was older.
Which is the correct decision. Any decision on surgery should be made by Coy when she is older, not her parents.
When the child was in kindergarten at Eagle Elementary School in Fountain, Colorado there was no problem because Coy was allowed to use the girls’ bathroom.
But in December school officials told the family Coy could no longer use the girls’ facilities and would have to use the boys’ or nurse’s bathroom instead.
“That wasn’t a safe environment for her,” said Coy’s mother Kathryn Mathis, a nurse.
“It set her up for a lot of harassment and it wasn’t a place where we were able to let her be because we want her to be safe and we want her to be healthy.” …
The school said its decision “took into account not only Coy, but other students in the building, their parents and the future impact a boy with male genitals using a girls’ bathroom would have as Coy grew older”.
Kathryn Mathis is not blind to the possibilities but fears the district will stigmatise her daughter at a crucial stage in her development.
The sad reality is that life is going to pretty difficult for Coy Mathis regardless. I can see the school’s point about concerns for other students. It’s pretty difficult to explain to six year olds about trans-gender. But whichever set of toilets she uses, it means you have to explain to the other kids why, and it is likely she’s going to face some teasing or worse.
Which is why in the end, when both choices are imperfect, I’d go with what the family wants.
March 8th, 2013 at 7:16 am
It’s only difficult because we cannot call a spade a spade anymore – the child is a boy and his parents have screwed him up.
Started expressing herself as a girl at eighteen months? – Really?
Attention whore parents, its actually called Münchausen syndrome by proxy
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 7:17 am
This is where the very basic questions of how a society exists have to be addressed.
Does a group of people behave in the interests of the social group first or do they behave in the interests of each individual first?
We know from history that the group will eventually fall to bits if the individual interests come first. We know that the group will exist quite well and grow if the interests of the group come first – but individual rights have to come second in this situaion.
Or the whole question could be avoided by making all toilets unisex – just like at home………..
However in this case above my own view is that the parents are seriously fucked in the head.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 7:29 am
Why do you call him her. He’s a boy.
If you did a blood test he would be a boy.
If you saw him in the shower he would be a boy.
If he competed in the olympics he would only be allowed in male events.
He will never menstruate or bear children.
Let him use the boys toilets like all the other boys.
Wearing a dress and having long hair does not change you into a female.
Cutting of your penis does not turn you into a woman anymore than cutting of your leg turns you into a stork.
March 8th, 2013 at 7:31 am
>>I’d go with what the family wants
Do the other kids using the bathroom not have families?
The parents should have waited until she was older before doing anything at all. I’ve heard there are males who like to wear women’s clothing without actually wanting to be female. The child may also be another sad victim of wierd first name syndrome.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 7:34 am
Gender is a construct. The kid is a boy because he has a boy’s body. Boys and girls are otherwise the same.
Vote:A boy who is interested in stuff usually associated with girls is a boy into stuff usually associated with girls. He’s still a boy.
Post op he’ll be a boy without the bits. The problem isn’t that he’s got the wrong body, the problem is that society thinks our bodies say things about what we are or should be thinking. It’s society that needs the surgery, not this boy. Let him be into girly stuff and stop fucking with his head.
March 8th, 2013 at 7:49 am
“What is the correct decision?” (Pardon my disbelieving mirth!!)
What a bunch of balderdash and – to use a popular shorthand term – loonytoons!
He’s a boy, for goodness sake!. You know what “boys” are – sure you do – they’re the male of the species.
Its the parent who needs the medical/surgical/cerebral/psychiatric treatment, not the poor child who – until a strong dose of commonsense/reality is introduced into his life – is going to live an existence dominated by doubt, worry, fear, uncertainty and misery.
Don’t these so-called experts know that when a child is growing up it often – not always, but often – goes through weird phases that generally pass and give way to what 99% of the population regard as normality?.
I go with ‘bringbackdemocracy’ at 7.29.
“A difficult case” indeed. Per-leese!! Spare me!!
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 7:50 am
It is obvious who has kids and who doesn’t here. He is a boy plain and simple, to play into the parents game is something only someone who has not has kids would do. At some stage they need to be the adults and tell the kid that the world is not what the kid wants it to be and to get into reality.
A good friends son thought he was “a pink girl” when he was 2 but the parents told him firmly he was a boy, what do you know he is now a 7 year old boy. Sorry these parents need to get a grip and tell the kid he is a boy not a girl.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 7:55 am
It’s as simple as this: People with penises use this toilet and people with vaginas use this other one. It’s got nothing to do with what you think or what stuff you’re into or how you feel about yourself. He can’t go into the vagina toilet because he has a penis. End of story.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 7:57 am
Let the child use the nurse’s toilet, as suggested, or the staff toilet – one assumes they go too. Provide a simple medical explanation, if some reason is needed.
Why is this an international news item – isn’t the world a little fucked up, as well as the ‘adults’ involved : the kid’s parents and the school staff?
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 7:58 am
Way kind of freak show parents let their boy dress as a girl?
The sort spoiling for a fight.
Piss off. Little Johnny or whatever his name is can be a tranny when he grows up.
What are the chances that these parents vote left?
Where is weighs a to tell us this is normal and we are the problem?
For what it’s worth dime doesn’t care about trannys. Do what you want. Once you’re an adult.
These parents should be worrying about jail, not where their kid stands to take a piss
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 8:02 am
The most important and relevant perspective is that of the child in spite of what some of you amateur prognosticators may think.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 8:07 am
Nothing difficult here.
Just another example of how f@cked up the west has become.
And once again it’s the gender agenda.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 8:20 am
@bringbackdemocracy:
“He will never menstruate or bear children”
My ex-girlfriend doesn’t menstruate and can’t bear children. Does that make her a boy?
A Teacher: Whoa uh wait, uh, hang on a second. My wife had ovarian cancer, so she can’t have babies.
Vote:Mr. Garrison: Well then get an AIDS test, Thompson, ’cause your wife’s a dude, f*ggot!
March 8th, 2013 at 8:26 am
I can’t imagine going through life like that. Poor kid.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 8:34 am
With parents like that, I guess young Coy should just be grateful her 2-year-old self didn’t demand tattoos…
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 8:38 am
“The most important and relevant perspective is that of the child in spite of what some of you amateur prognosticators may think.”
Hi Scott,
Can I invite you off your high-horse and into the debate? I don’t always agree with Andrei but he was right to express incredulity on this point. More: it is disturbing that DPF did not comment on it himself – it speaks to an increasing obsequeousness on LGBTIPADC matters.
It is not incumbent on lay people to always exercise complete deference when it comes to mental health professionals. There are more than enough quacks out there. There are also plenty of people who will prioritise LBGTTIPADC politics over the well-being of any one individual. In that case – who is really looking out for the interests of the child?
Not saying this is the case here but the bald assertion that the idea a child who was barely a toddler was diagnosed with a gender identity disorder strikes against common sense and merits further scrutiny – or at least a sceptical stance.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 8:44 am
The kid is 6 years old, it wouldn’t make international news if he had an imaginary friend at that age, why should it if he imagines he’s a girl?
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 8:58 am
This is a six year old child, for pity sake.
Some boys like to play with trucks and some with dolls. Some girls like to bake in the kitchen and others like to throw mud pies. Most 6 year olds can’t decide what they want on their sandwiches, let alone know at 18 months old, know what gender they want to be.
The child’s parents need to stop over analysing their child’s behaviour and let it be a child. And transgenders are using this kid as its poster child is only pushing their own agenda, and really doesn’t have the child’s best interests at heart.
March 8th, 2013 at 9:00 am
Cato – I agree. Let’s see who this mental health professional is. Let’s see them justify their diagnosis.
Let’s see them provide evidence for such a thing as a male or female mind or a gender that is separate from our physical selves.
Calling this boy a girl isn’t liberal or enlightened. It’s sexist. He is a boy because his body is male. There is no such thing as girlish or boyish things. There are just things. Believing in some non-physical gender means you can consider horrors such as chopping off his penis because he likes dresses and dollies. These parents are relics and yet think they are liberal. They are so caught up in gender identity and the expectations that come from that that they made the (correct) decision not to chop of his penis by accident. The proof of this is the fact they refer to him as “her” simply because of the stuff he likes.
Transgenderism (possessing the wrong body) is a sexist myth.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:03 am
Not that I want to veer into anecdotalism – but I have just met too many parents who for some reason seem to WANT to have a peanut allergy, or coeliac disease, or Asperger’s syndrome to accept every diagnoses at face value.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:14 am
I think we are seeing natures variation here (not the Big Man in the Sky).
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:22 am
Not sure though.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:24 am
Oh look, Kiwiblog commentaters far removed from a difficult situation thinking they know best, having absolutely zero exposure to the circumstances or the science. Surprise surprise!
I particulalry like the line from nzd.gbp “It’s as simple as this: People with penises use this toilet and people with vaginas use this other one.”
Really? Is that how it wqorks in your household? Do you have gender-specific toilets?
Does it really matter what gender uses what toilet anyway? It’s not like she’ll be naked infront of the other children as presumably they have stalls. Who actually loses in this scenario? What is the problem? The child behaves and dresses as a girl. In what way would it affect other female children when she uses a private stall to go to the toilet?
And before you all huff and puff some more, there are schools in Auckland that accomodate this kind of issue. I know, right in our backyard. The end is nigh!!!
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:28 am
And hold up a second… did this child grow from the loins of a heterosexual couple? Was it raised in the confines of a heterosexual household? How could this be?! Andrei – could you explain? Because you explain so well.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:28 am
“All evidence suggests that gender identity gets ‘set’ somewhere from age 3-6 and it remains with us for the rest of our lives. For most of you your gender matches your physical configuration, but for those of us who it doesn’t, we know at a very early age that something is wrong.”
Vote:….
Always a bit wary of second hand “all the evidence suggests..” in a debate but it seems likely.
March 8th, 2013 at 9:30 am
Bingo99 – is your proposed solution to mandate unisex toilets for all primary schools? If not, on what grounds would you object?
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:33 am
It is probably a software glitch; unfortunately you can’t do a reinstall as the current model doesn’t allow.
The thing is, gender identity predetermined by the wiring of neurons or a choice?
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:34 am
Bingo99 – I don’t think you understand what I was getting at so I’ll try again. I don’t think it would hurt little girls to see little boy penises in a unisex toilet. I certainly wasn’t scarred by seeing naked women when I was a little boy. They are just bodies. I don’t care whether they have unisex toilets. That’s not my point. My point is precisely that your body isn’t something that determines who you are.
No of course I don’t have gender specific toilets in my house. (wtf?)
I couldn’t care less what gender uses what toilet. What matters is that adults who should know better are letting this boy think he has the wrong body when in fact the one he has is perfect.
Huff and puff? Oh look, someone who doesn’t get it gets all superior. hehe
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:38 am
I think to make a call on this issue it really comes down to the reason we have male and female toilets at all. Without the context of the distinction how can you decide which toilet she should use.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:40 am
Excuse me, I must really object to the usual suspects this time. The Vatican only made up its mind that reassignment was verboten to conservative Catholics as recently as 2000-2003. For that reason, tt cannot claim that its transphobia is some sort of ‘traditional value’ on this basis and it is blatantly a transparent sectarian power grab ploy. Tough. For once, the Aussies have it all over us on this issue, as all Aussie states and territories include gender identity within their antidiscrimination laws. And so, technically, do we, except that it’d be a far better idea to incorporate it directly into our Human Rights Act. Insofar as Coy’s gender goes, this is where a proactive and enforceable school antibullying policy goes.
For an excellent backgrounder on this, try http://www.religioustolerance.org/transsexu15.htm
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:45 am
kowtow (3,833) Says:
“March 8th, 2013 at 8:07 am
Nothing difficult here.
Just another example of how f@cked up the west has become.
And once again it’s the gender agenda.”
Actually Kowtow transgender issues are far from limited to western society. Trans-people are seen in all sorts of cultures and countries throughout history. The difference is, that many other cultures are much more accepting. A good example is some pacific island cultures. In Samoa for example Fa’afafine’s are celebrated as an integral part of Samoan culture.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:46 am
ChardonnayGuy,
I really must object to you for ‘rebutting’ your adversaries here by way of attacking Catholicism when, to my knowledge, not a single person had brought religion into the discussion.
I understand that you are a staunch advocate for prioritising LBGTIPACDQNM politics over everything else, but what we are discussing is whether it is appropriate to direct a very young child who is inalterably, genetically a male to live life as a girl and whether he should be forced to use the female bathroom with pre-teen children who are genetically of a different sex.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:05 am
And another thing Bingo99 – there is no science around this. Science is physics. All else is stamp collecting.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:17 am
I knew parents in Australia whose 3 year didn’t want to get his hair washed or cut, so it was long and was occasionally rinsed in the bath, but never washed properly and wouldn’t be cut until he wanted it to be. I went shopping with the mother once and watched in amazement as she negotiated with her son for 15 minutes while we waited because he wouldn’t put down an item in the shop that he’d picked up. My son, who was four at the time, couldn’t believe what he’d seen.
I’ve seen variations of that type of parenting from the hippy parents over the years, including one parent sitting in his car for a couple of hours with his daughter because she wouldn’t put her seatbelt on.
It’s just crappy parenting, and those parents especially the father, needs to stand up to his wife and tell his son that he’s a boy and affirm his masculinity, but the fact that he hasn’t shows that he’s not got much going on in that direction in himself.
You can have boys in girl’s bathrooms in a non-family situation. It causes all sorts of problems for the girls, including giving them bladder problems because they don’t feel safe going to the toilet if a boy might be in there.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:18 am
Pardon me for coming back having said my piece.
But.
What – Cato at 8.38 – is LGBTIPADC for goodness sake? Tell me. I honestly want to know. Anybody?
(BTW, from the majority of the incredulous, astonished and “disbelieving-of-the-selfish-and-child-damaging-attitude-of-this-poor boy’s-mother” comments above I’m gratified to see that we still have a few normal-(that’s n-o-r-m-a-l)-people around and posting!!)
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:19 am
@Cato – very possibly. Though with urinals, boys tend to be more exposed and as girls age they rightly require privacy to address the menstrual cycle. But as small children, in a bathroom environment where no genitals are exposed, I don’t really see what the problem is. Are we afraid she’ll pee on the seat? Presumably as a child that has identified as female, she’ll be seated.
@nzd.gbp – I’m not transgegender. I have no idea what it’s like, nor what it’s like when your child expresses transgender behaviour. And nor do you. I don’t know if there is science behind it, though I suspect there is or, at the very least, an awful lot of research on the matter by people far smarter than either you or I.
But for practicalities sake, the whole issue is no biggie – it’s a kid, who’ll be in a private stall doin their thing. How does it negatively impact the other children? Presumably you don’t have a problem with unisex toilets. If it’s cool at your house, why not at school? Do you direct the people with penises to that toilet and the people with vaginas to another one, as you so eloquently put it? Oh you don’t? Why not? Where’s the moral outrage?! Can we protest outside your house at this debaucherous travesty? What is this, an ancient Greek orgy? ARRRRGGHHHHH!
We accommodated all sorts of odds and ends from special needs kids at school and we all adapted just fine. In fact, it probably made us better people. And the great thing about kids…. unless adults make a big deal out of this stuff (usually for political/religious purposes), they don’t tend to care.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:20 am
The parents are morons, or to take it further – negligent.
As other have pointed out at 18 months the child has no ability to make those sort of decisions – my 20 month old daughter would eat cheese for every meal if I let her, hardly mature enough to decide she is now going to swap genders.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:23 am
Ooooo look. Another LGBT post. Goodie.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:31 am
But for practicalities sake, the whole issue is no biggie – it’s a kid, who’ll be in a private stall doin their thing. How does it negatively impact the other children?
Yes, it’s a petty, pointless and destructive thing for the school to do. However, what the school’s doing is utterly trivial in comparison to the child abuse the parents have engaged in. Whether it was done through ignorance, ideology or deliberate malice, child abuse is all you can call it.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:33 am
Ok Bingo99 – I’ll try again. We only have male and female toilets because, as Lucia Maria pointed out above, some girls and some boys are uncomfortable with boys or girls in their toilets. It causes them anxiety. What I am saying is that having a male body is entirely what makes you male. There is no more to it than that. I am perfectly happy with unisex toilets. There is no moral outrage. You have got me wrong. Why do you keep inferring that I think it’s somehow wrong for kids to use the same toilets? The only thing different between boys and girls is their bodies, therefore the only reason we can justify boys and girls toilets is because of their bodies, therefore if you have a boy’s body you use the boy’s toilet.
Make everyone use unisex toilets. That’s fine too. I don’t care.
An awful lot of research into stamp collecting does not make it physics. Transgender is a myth perpetuated by people who have been taught to hate their bodies. I very much doubt that people who are smarter than me would waste their limited time on earth creating a language around a myth such as transgenderism in order to convince themselves it’s real.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:34 am
I love the way people with clearly no idea about these issues, nevertheless feel a need to speak up giving their worldly opinions that it’s all bullshit, and everybody involved is wrong… the individuals, the doctors, the social workers, the child psychologists… all wrong
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:40 am
Cato#
“….we are discussing is whether it is appropriate to direct a very young child who is inalterably, genetically a male to live life as a girl and whether he should be forced to use the female bathroom with pre-teen children who are genetically of a different sex….”
Police in Canada and the US are concerned about this as there has been a rise in attacks on females in female toilets by ‘men dressed as women’. It’s not so much by ‘transgenders’ but by men who when confronted by police, say that they are transgender/transvestite and have a ‘right’ to be there. They are perverts who use it as an excuse. I read that girls are the ones who are at most risk, and that they should not also have to experiance ‘seeing male parts put on display’ by transgenders.
Young women -or any women for that matter- should be allowed to go about their ‘personal business’ unconfronted and in a comfortable way. Men should too.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:41 am
RRM – four questions:
- Was homosexuality considered a mental illness before 1973?
Vote:- Who spearheaded the movement to have it delisted, psychiatrists or lay people?;
- Was it right or wrong for lay people to challenge that classification to push for delisting?;
- Can you distinguish between this and that without special pleading?
March 8th, 2013 at 10:43 am
“…..Make everyone use unisex toilets. That’s fine too. I don’t care….”
The police child sex abuse squad care!
You clearly don’t have kids – or don’t care about them!
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:48 am
Cato, I’ve seen medical certificates for continuation of sickness benefits, stating the clients “incapacity to work” is due to being a transgender.
Go figure.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:49 am
“….I love the way people with clearly no idea about these issues, nevertheless feel a need to speak up giving their worldly opinions that it’s all bullshit, and everybody involved is wrong… the individuals, the doctors, the social workers, the child psychologists… all wrong….”
I just love seeing all you non-thinking perverts wanting to share toilets with young girls……wasn’t it just last week RRM that you said you had 2 young children -from memory- 3 and 5?
Sick Fuck!
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:51 am
The child should be taught to pretend to be normal, just like the people commenting here…
On a day-to-day basis, Coy should go into the boys’ and sit down. Hide. Of course he’ll have to change schools now the dopey parents have blown the whistle…
When older Coy can emigrate and become a list MP and do something about it. Whatever.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:52 am
You’re making very little sense, as usual.
Oh and I’m not a pedophile btw, thank you for the allegation.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:54 am
I love the way people with clearly no idea about these issues…
No idea about what issues? Are you referring to the issue of what parenting involves? And the issue of whether parents should be making life-changing decisions for their child based on what it tells them as an 18-month-old? And of course the issue of what the difference between a boy and a girl is? I expect there are few commenters here with no expertise in those issues.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:55 am
Oh and I know a transgender litfy (post-op) and a transgernder architect (pre-op.)
Both good people, good at their jobs, don’t sexually harrass you or make unwanted passes.
I imagine the decision to get your dick cut off is not one taken lightly, on a whim…
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 10:55 am
Harriet, ok, I should have said – give them boys toilets for boys, girls toilets for girls and unisex toilets for those who don’t mind either way. Ok? I’m not about forcing kids to go to the same toilets if it causes them anxiety. I certainly did not say that adults can go into schools and use their toilets. Are we cool?
RRM – I love the way people with clearly no idea about these issues…blah blah blah. How do you know these people have no idea? Because you don’t agree? Nice one Einstein.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 11:09 am
From birth, my child refused milk then solids as she had clearly decided to become anorexic and die young. I cruelly ignored her wishes and she is now a healthy 21 year old. I wonder if she hates me?
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 11:10 am
Cato#
Thanks for your kind words the other day concerning the way I talk to others. Of course I don’t like talking like that as it is not in my nature, and nor is it the way that I was bought up. Thankyou.
But as you can see today, the advocates of the ‘gender bender agenda’ will propose or support anything to get their way.
Children going through childhood, and viewing the world in an innocent and unquestioning way, is the last thing on the minds of these ‘progressives’.
The saftey of children doesn’t matter to them either as they don’t have their own children. However they can be excused for this major infraction -or commonsense as 96% of society would say- as they do not ‘know’ any better.
Nor do I think that the ‘progressives’ had parents who taught them to mind their own business, or in the words of NZD.GBP – ‘relics’!
Thanks.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 11:17 am
Harriet,
I am sure you will agree that all people need to be accorded dignity – no matter their views, conditions or behaviour.
The question is are Cay’s parents according him dignity? Least of all by going to the press with this story.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 11:24 am
RRM#
” Harriet…..You’re making very little sense, as usual…”
hhahahhhahhahah
Reading the crap from you childless lot today, anyone would think that children were no longer made in the privacy of a bedroom – but that’s the gays for you:
Stupid and ignorant! Liars too!
Gays should stay the fuck away from having anything to do with our kids upbringing, education, and personhood!
Design ya fucken own and send them to your own indoctrinating schools for Progressively Designed Kids !
Gay children: The products of a community project designed by 3 people!
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 11:29 am
Any sense you MAY make is disguised by your vile language Harriet. For goodness sake, show some decorum.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 11:30 am
NW- hear, hear.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 1:09 pm
@bringbackdemocracy
” If he competed in the olympics he would only be allowed in male events.”
—————————
Actually you are wrong. If this child undergoes a sex change before puberty, then she can compete at the Olympic Games with no restrictions.
If the gender transition occurs after puberty, she must undergo surgical gender reassignment along with a gonadectomy, appropriate hormone treatment, and legal recognition of her new gender identity. If these steps are completed more than two years before the Olympic Games, she can compete with no restrictions.
These rules are collectively called the IOC Stockholm Consensus on Transgender Athletes. They were adopted by the IOC in 2003.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 4:20 pm
It’s all very well debating whether or not this child should be allowed to use the girls toilets. As has been pointed out, girls use stalls and as long as the child is this young, the other girls won’t see anything unusual.
But what happens when the class change clothes for any reason? Such as sports or swimming lessons. Won’t the other children notice then? What will they be told?
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 5:33 pm
And as for the comments made by Cato, the fact of the matter is that transphobic religious beliefs about the alleged immorality of gender reassignment are based on very newly invented religious dogma and it deserves to be named and exposed as such. That, and its transphobia is disgusting and inhuman.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 5:36 pm
It seems even the media are promoting a falsity when they say –
A 6-year-old girl with violet hair has become the unlikely poster child for the transgender people’s rights after her United States school barred her from using the girls’ bathroom.
He’s a boy, and the media do themselves nor anyone else a favour by reporting it otherwise.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 6:14 pm
Which is why in the end, when both choices are imperfect, I’d go with what the family wants.
I’d go with prosecuting the parents for child abuse.
Anyone that thinks an 18 month old child is showing ‘gender identity disorder’ is an idiot, they are most likely just another pair of shameless attention seekers destroying the life of their child.
So DPF, do you actually believe a girl can be born in a boys body? and we aren’t talking about hermaphrodites, that can be tested for.
What utter destructive bullshit.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 6:39 pm
I agree with Shunda.If you have a penis, you;re a boy. If you have an inny then you’re a girl. Dickhead parents. But I agree with DPF. Go with the parents wishes. The other kids won’t give a rats ass and the boychick is in for a hard road anyhow.
Vote:Gawd. The psychologist is the biggest dickhead of all. You can tell a gender identity crisis with a child younger than 10 years at least. Growing pubes would have to be the earliest.
And it’s not a difficult case. Six year old’s know fuck all about anything. The parent’s should be telling him he’s a boy until they’re old enough to decide for themselves.
March 8th, 2013 at 6:42 pm
And hold up a second… did this child grow from the loins of a heterosexual couple? Was it raised in the confines of a heterosexual household? How could this be?! Andrei – could you explain? Because you explain so well.
I’ll have a crack.
The parents are f@cked in the head.
In my opinion, any 6 year old child that has violet hair, dreadlocks, or some other feature clearly foisted upon them by their insecure attention seeking parents, is being terribly abused. Kids that young don’t do that stuff without first being strongly led astray by their socially challenged parents.
In the 12 years I have had children in primary school, I have NEVER seen any evidence to the contrary, kids as young as this are simply being used as fashion accessories and fashion statements by their deluded, intolerable parents.
Anyone here that thinks kiwi bog members are on their high horse, wait until you’re at an event or children’s activity with one of these ideologically brain washed dim witted parents and their damaged child victim.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 6:45 pm
CG – one can only surmise that you have no idea what the suffix “phobic” means.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 6:54 pm
Just a bit curious here.
I went to school with a girl that had both male and female sexual organs. Her parents had decided to bring her up as a female, because it would be easier for her to be surgically adjusted.
Whilst this child may have male sexual organs, perhaps her hormones indicate she is in fact female. Nature can play some very cruel tricks, and I believe it is possible to have the ‘organs’ but actually have the DNA make up of the opposite sex. The article states it was under medical advice, so there must be something that has made the doctors make that judgement, other than the child referring to themselves as a certain sex.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 7:10 pm
The article states it was under medical advice, so there must be something that has made the doctors make that judgement, other than the child referring to themselves as a certain sex.
Because doctors never get it wrong, and most certainly do not have personal opinions on the social or political issues of our times.
By the way, the example you gave is actually a hermaphrodite, a medically provable condition and one that can actually be tested for. They can also test which ‘side’ is predominate.
This article is about parents that dye their little 6 year old boys hair violet and call him a girl.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 7:27 pm
Is this DPF’s way of recognising International Womens Day?
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 7:28 pm
I think its DPFs way of climbing back to the top of the blog rankings. All matters sexual, all the time!
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 7:49 pm
If he wanted the issue dealt with seriously he would have invited a guest post by Queen of Thorns – the sort of feminist who was missing here when certain men discussed rape on this blog yesterday.
http://thedailyblog.co.nz/category/bloggers/queen-of-thorns/
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 8:20 pm
If he wanted the issue dealt with seriously he would have invited a guest post by Queen of Thorns…
Why? Is she a parent herself?
The article states it was under medical advice, so there must be something that has made the doctors make that judgement, other than the child referring to themselves as a certain sex.
Oh, such faith! Unfortunately, it “must” not be the case at all.
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 8:28 pm
Psycho Milt, the people posting are dissing the parents of the child …
Vote:March 8th, 2013 at 9:25 pm
Reading threads like this helps me to understand how children learn to hate each other.
They just follow the example of their parents.
It’s really quite sad.
Vote:March 9th, 2013 at 7:48 am
Psycho Milt, the people posting are dissing the parents of the child …
You bet we are. These “parents” have made a decision for their child that will change her life permanently and bring her a great deal of misery, on the basis of demands she made as a toddler. That is so fucked up it’s barely comprehensible, and being polite about the fuckwits who’ve done it doesn’t come easy to commenters whose parenting skills go beyond letting a 2-year-old tell them what to do.
I asked the question because it wasn’t clear to me what Queen of Thorns would bring to an issue of parental stupidty. I don’t see anything in her previous posts that suggests any particular knowledge in that area.
Vote:March 9th, 2013 at 2:07 pm
The parents did what any other parents would do when noticing a behavioural issue, they consulted experts.
If it had been a health issue and the parents had ignored expert advice what would you have thought of the parents?
PS You do not seem to have read Q of T on gender identity issues.
Vote:March 9th, 2013 at 7:10 pm
1. Most parents actually don’t consult “experts” (in quotes because what the relevant field actually is and what constitutes expertise in it is entirely opinion) when their toddler makes unreasonable demands. This is because all toddlers make unreasonable demands, often in significant quantities, and one of your tasks as a parent is to win the battle to make clear to your 2-year-old that the rest of the world isn’t under obligation to re-orient itself to suit their requirements. Most parents manage this fairly basic task without trying to farm it out to others. And that is a very good thing, as this example demonstrates – if you hand your role as parent to a semi-educated self-proclaimed expert with no stake in the outcome, there’s quite likely trouble ahead.
2. Indeed I haven’t read QoT on gender identity issues, but this is primarily a child abuse issue. The only point of dispute is whether the school is out ahead of the parents on that front. (It isn’t, not by a long chalk.)
Vote:March 9th, 2013 at 7:16 pm
Too right Milt. I never let “experts get in the way of my parenting.
Vote:QOT knows fuck all about parenting. Her specialty is some kind of fucked up female subversiveness. No bearing on reality.