A great dad
March 18th, 2013 at 9:00 am by David Farrar
This is a real letter written by a father who overheard his son talking about how to come out to his parents. Nate took a photo of it and sent it to FCKH8. On Facebook it has had around 81,000 likes and 49,000 shares.
Tags: gay
March 18th, 2013 at 9:03 am
The usual, unChristian, mean-spirited and sarcastic, society is going down the drain style comments from Andrei, Scott, kowtow, etc. Incoming in 3, 2, 1…
March 18th, 2013 at 9:08 am
Here we go…
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:13 am
again
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:15 am
Maybe this site needs to be renamed Gayblog?
March 18th, 2013 at 9:17 am
I think that in general there would be less hate in the world if more Dads told their sons that they loved them. It might have even calmed down some of the commentators on this site…
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:17 am
This site needs to be renamed ExtremelyGayblog.
Has homosexuality and gay-related topics become DPF’s obsession? Yes.
March 18th, 2013 at 9:18 am
I have an idea for a tv show, i think i should pitch it to tv3.
im calling it “coming out to andrei”
every week we get a new gay kid on stage and he comes out to andrei and then to his parents.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:18 am
FFS. What next?
Vote:And, DPF, what will Mau tell her children?
Silly. Let it go…it will get there without deep throating everyone.
March 18th, 2013 at 9:23 am
“Thats nice”.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:24 am
DPF – why your fixation with the gay life style. I mean why not put up posts about rickets or malaria – theyre much greater challenges to humanity
- and a fuck side more interesting.
It used to be that this blog was really quite interesting – but its degarded into endless dribble about gays and queer marriage and the likes.
The Standard might be biased and run badly – but the posts are starting to look more interesting.
March 18th, 2013 at 9:25 am
People were joking about all this becoming compulsory … um …. weren’t they?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:26 am
Fake-Christians, why your fixation with the gay life style?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:28 am
ive never really thought kiwiblog has an abundance of gay stories?
more than usual as the gay marriage thing is topical, but not OTT.
whaleoil on the other hand. i stopped visiting his site because of the constant gay posts (and the priest posts).
March 18th, 2013 at 9:38 am
Looks like contrived propaganda to me. The reality is, some Dads accept this, in many families this causes extreme pain, confusion and heart ache. So DPF, let’s not paint this all as roses and bunnies. There are very real and sad consequences to homosexuality, not the least of which is the break up of families and gay lovers being chosen over children.
[DPF: John thinks a Dad's unconditional love for his son is contrived. He also implies it is a choice when he talks about consequences to homosexuality.
And blaming homosexuality for some families being broken up is as idiotic as blaming heterosexuality for some families being broken up]
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:40 am
It is not just Christians – fake or otherwise – who are affected. Everyone is. Just look at what the NZ AIDS Foundation has to say.
This affects us in a number of ways. I do not have to explain to anyone who not fucked in the head regularly.
I wonder what sort of letter a father would write if his son was one of the one in three extremely promiscuous homosexuals. Would he say, “That is cool son. I am not a fake-Christian. You are welcome to bring your buddy or buddies home.”
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:40 am
I’m stunned. It took a gay post to get Dime to talk in the first person. Has the drought broken?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:41 am
Given its unlikely similarity in style, this is probably a fake counter to another fake letter taking the other approach that the homosexual activists sent out some years ago.
If it is fake, it would be typical of the dishonesty that underpins the propaganda campaign to make homosexuality “normal”.
Its disappointing to see this blog, that gained a following because it exposed the lies of the mainstream media, now just becoming another deceitful propaganda device itself.
March 18th, 2013 at 9:44 am
Manolo thinks it’s an impostor, a fake, a bogus dime.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:45 am
Nookin (2,438) Says:
March 18th, 2013 at 9:40 am
“Bisexuality immediately doubles your chances for a date on
Vote:Saturday night.” — Rodney Dangerfield
March 18th, 2013 at 9:46 am
My eyes are open now. Gays are people too.
I hope my son turns out to be gay so I can show people just how cool and tolerant I am now. If he is not, then I will start a blog and post mindless screeds of pro gay, sentimental dribble, which should have the same effect.
March 18th, 2013 at 9:47 am
“I wonder what sort of letter a father would write if his son was one of the one in three extremely promiscuous homosexuals.”
How is this different from if his son, or daughter, was an extremely promiscuous heterosexual?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:47 am
I don’t like it – therefore it must be dishonest propaganda. Evidence, schmevidence.
Have a good day, haters
Remember, God hates fags
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:49 am
Only if one hides the fact that they are bisexual or just has normal sex with very stupid women.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:49 am
nookin – the beauty of Dime is he seamlessly moves back and forth between speaking in the first or third
chuck – posts like yours crack me up. its almost like straight people are jealous of the fun gay peeps have. dont get me wrong, im not into drugs (anymore
). but 100 partners a year doesnt sound too bad!
gay chicks are also pretty dam promiscuous too. i know a few and they have some awesome stories. the sort of stories that start to depress you cause you know youll never get to see anything like it in real life
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:50 am
Tired of the unnatural PC friendly rubbish that gets pushed through outlets such as kiwiblog and the MSM?
Join the Le Mon party and lets keep things traditional
http://www.lemonparty.org
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:50 am
How on earth do you know that your child is gay from when they are six?
Is the father actually saying that he noticed more feminine characteristics from his son from that age and did nothing to affirm his masculinity? If so, he’s as bad as the man who stood by and did nothing while his son’s hair was allowed to dress in girl’s clothes and pretend he was a girl from the age of four, to the point of trying to force the school to allow the boy to the use the girl’s bathrooms.
Personally, I think this letter is probably a fake as well.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:51 am
I’m pretty sure if you turn this piece of paper over you’d find it’s Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:56 am
Well if YOU can’t imagine such a thing, Lucia, then OBVIOUSLY it’s false huh?
God, spare us from those professing to hate and judge on your behalf.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:56 am
Comes from a site called FCKH8 and this post has generated at lot of hate, the first comment in fact sets the tone.
Who knows if it is real or not, I am skeptical myself – way too pat and the publication of it incredibly manipulative.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:59 am
lucia – its a fake. it was created by a tshirt company..
Dime knows two dudes who everyone knew were gay from about age 6. same age as me. even at a young age, dime was onto it.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:01 am
“Is the father actually saying that he noticed more feminine characteristics from his son from that age and did nothing to affirm his masculinity?”
Lucia, do you think all gay men are feminine?
That has to be one of the stupidest things you’ve ever said.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:02 am
FFS give it a rest DPF….the damn thing is going to pass, with or without your efforts. And no matter how many schmaltzy notes – genuine or otherwise – you put up here, no-one who believes marriage should be between a man and a woman, and/or that homosexuality is an aberration, or that such unions are an abomination in the sight of their God, is going to change their minds.
A scan of the above comments should amply demonstrate that your readers have had enough of this. Go back to what you do best – such as the brilliant expose of the MSM failing to challenge the credentials and bona fides of the “expert” on charter schools, brought in and trotted about by those ideologically opposed to the idea.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:06 am
I guess he was a father that was prepared to love his child for what he was, rather than try and make him something he and the rest of society would be happier with. I think its called ‘unconditional love’ – the sort of message that says ‘I love you’ for who you are, not what I can turn you into – it doesn’t matter that you are different to me.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:06 am
A dad loves his son. All homosexuality is therefore awesome. Glad we got that settled. Desperate, much?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:08 am
It certainly sounds fake to me. These liberal parents “knew” their son was homosexual from the age of 6 and said nothing their son and the son is worried about coming out to his father. 99% chance it is fake. The onus should be on DPF to prove it is genuine to for us to proof it is fake.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:09 am
I dunno. With so much great stuff on the internet, like this post on whether you can launch yourself into the air by firing a machine gun directly down at the ground: http://whatif.xkcd.com/21/ I dunno why DPF would pick this particular thing to post.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:09 am
If it’s real, and I personally have no way of knowing whether it is or not, then all it shows is a father who loves his child unconditionally. Like most fathers.
Like most fathers, who love and accept their children when they do well at school, and when they don’t; when they are polite in company, and when they’re brats; when they get married to their long-time boyfriend, settle down and have children, or when they come to you at 15 and say “Dad, I’m pregnant, what do I do?”.
Like most fathers, who love their children whether they have two legs or one; whether they are brilliant or not; if they are born with a physical or mental handicap.
Like most fathers, who love their children whether their politics are left or right or green; whether they like classical music or prefer punk or rock out to Deep Purple; whether they are sport stars or prefer to read books; or even whether they are straight or gay.
Most parents love their children unconditionally. How is this any great news? Just because the kid is gay?
Sorry, don’t really see the big deal here.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:11 am
Maybe we should have a thread about why David Bain murdered his family for a change.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:11 am
I am amazed that so many people think a dad loving his gay son must be fake. Says so much about themselves. They obviously can’t imagine they would be capable of unconditional love in the same situation.
If people don’t like my choice of topics, then of course you can stop reading. I blog on any issue or situation I find interesting. I blog for myself, not for anyone else.
Posts on same sex marriage (which this post is not – it’s about a cool dad) are probably around 4% of recent posts. That is not surprising considering there is a bill on that issue before Parliament. When the drinking age vote was close, I blogged lots on that. I imagine that when the bill is passed, less than 1% of my posts will be on this topic. But again – it’s my choice, and frankly those who whine about it can stop reading for free this blog.
The number of visits, visitors and pageviews to Kiwiblog are all up on a year ago. The few dozen people who whine on this threads are not representative of the 75,000 or so people who read Kiwiblog from time to time. But even if they were, I wouldn’t care. I write on what I am interested in. This blog is not a popularity contest.
March 18th, 2013 at 10:14 am
I guess he was a father that was prepared to love his child for what he was, rather than try and make him something he and the rest of society would be happier with.
So, what if Nate were in love with his sister, or his aunty.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:15 am
“Crack that wrist!”
“Give ‘em a good punch!
Vote:
March 18th, 2013 at 10:15 am
Yes, a good father but hope he looks after his grand kids after his sons gay marriages all break up
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:16 am
That would make him straight.
Your point being….?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:17 am
And yet every post on the subject generates hundreds of comments. If people have had enough don’t read DPFs posts on the subject. DPF posts plenty of things every day. A blog post about homosexuality a day is still only a small fraction of the subjects he posts on.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:18 am
“I am amazed that so many people think a dad loving his gay son must be fake. Says so much about themselves.”
Another example showing that when it comes down to homosexuality, tolerance is a one way street.
The letter is too pat and so similar in format and style to another letter saying the opposite that made the rounds a few years ago,
It naturally should raise suspicion in anyone who is not a gullible fool, or so desperate to be “trendy and cool” (or what is perceived as such) it overrides their common sense.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:19 am
Yes iMP it is very sad that some parents cannot handle their children coming out as gay, and choose instead to hate…
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:20 am
DPF – i just think its a fake cause of the source. no homophobia here. hell id hope all fathers were supportive like that
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:21 am
“Jimmy Smits (227) Says:
March 18th, 2013 at 9:03 am
The usual, unChristian, mean-spirited and sarcastic, society is going down the drain style comments from Andrei, Scott, kowtow, etc. Incoming in 3, 2, 1…”
Jimmy my dear fellow, I don’t think you are in a good position to lecture anyone about mean-spirited comments. You are a person who seems to specialise in personal attacks. But let the readers judge for themselves if what you say is mean-spirited?Here’s Jimmy in his own words-
Jimmy Smits (227) Says:
August 6th, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Secondly, you are the sad pathetic one for believing in things that don’t exist. What’s worse is that you give money away to others who give sermons on this non-existent being. Then finally when you’re an 80 year old man, you realise your whole life has been a delusion
Jimmy Smits (227) Says:
August 6th, 2012 at 6:26 pm
True, just as the reasons for your posts, despite all the crap you guys claim about how you care about the children or the destruction of society, is simply because of your homophobia.
Jimmy Smits (227) Says:
February 1st, 2013 at 6:35 pm
LOL, look at this angry old guy who thinks God is going to help him because gay marriage is going to pass which is supposedly going to be the destruction of the world.
Jimmy Smits (227) Says:
December 2nd, 2012 at 10:51 am
Kowtow – are you seriously suggesting that believing a meat-headed God up in the sky who sends gay people to Hell is any less ridiculous than global warming theories? Because I can tell you right now, as little evidence as there may be for global warming or conflicting opinion, the belief in a God and talking snakes is about one million times more ridiculous and you should feel ashamed of yourself for being a dumb enough ass for believing in it. How old are you for Christ’s sake? Do you honestly see any of the following as reasonable as opposed to say, absolutely retarded…
…I mean, I realise you must already be at that age where it’s too late for you to admit that you were wrong, but how shitty it must feel to know that you’ve wasted your whole life believing vehemently in fairy tales.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:22 am
graham
You’ve summed up what most of us who have brought up children know & practice.
Best comment I’ve read for a while.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:23 am
@graham
Yes, I agree. It shouldn’t be a big deal, unconditional love from parents should be seen as normal, complimented and encouraged.
But sadly some people here are putting their prejudices first. Even more sadly, a small minority of parents do too.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:24 am
From age six to the time his son is ‘dating’ these perceptive parents haven’t established circumstances to avoid the need to ‘come out’?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:24 am
At this age the likelihood of them being gay tends to be proportional to their popularity with the girls.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:26 am
What a load of contrived nonsense. It astounds me that there are so many people out there who are so politically naive, such that they believe homosexual marriage and homosexual political activism is all about “love”and “rights”.
It is not. The promoters of the homosexual agenda are full of resentment and anger, mixed with self-loathing and shame, and they will not stop until they have eradicated every last vestige of morality and self-restraint across the board.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:27 am
Fair Do’s DPF…as you say, we all have the choice whether to read these threads or not…one of the “thumbs up” to your comment to that effect was mine!
“Have a nice day”, as we once said in simpler times…And I shall now practice what I preach, and sit this one out….
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:29 am
No, of course not. I’ve known a few where it is impossible to tell that they are gay. Certainly surprised me when I found out.
But I’m struggling to understand how any parent can ‘know’ their child is gay from the age of 6. Children are not sexual at that age, so it has to have been some other aspect of his son’s behaviour that lead the dad to believe his son was gay, if this letter is real.
If you had children, you’d be wondering the same thing.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:31 am
I think sometimes people confuse the idea of “unconditional love” as being accepting of everything the beloved does. It doesn’t mean that at all. Unconditional love means loving someone despite their actions.
What if your child had a gambling or a drinking problem? Yes, you’d still love them, but that doesn’t mean blind acceptance of everything they do.
Sometimes “unconditional love” means, “I love you as you are, but too much to leave you that way”.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:32 am
“Sorry, don’t really see the big deal here.”
What a sap. What boilerplate feel good liberal nonsense.
Do you have any awareness at all of what is going around you, and how there is a concerted propaganda campaign abroad to capture and manipulate the minds of the population at large??
For your own sake man learn a bit of discrimination and skepticism.
When you hear of the Germans being seduced by propaganda campaigns selling Nazism, or the Italians by fascism, it seems incredible, but when one witnesses the stark gullibility and willingness to be manipulated of gormless naive sheep like you, it all becomes quite believable.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:35 am
Yeah looks fake, not like the 100% accurate word of god which is the bible.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:36 am
“And I shall now practice what I preach, and sit this one out….”
Yep, whatever you do, don’t fight for what you believe in.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:38 am
The sooner we can get this “f…..g” Act through Parliament the less we will have it thrust down our throats daily, daily, daily by those in favour.
Vote:Overall the discussion has been a disgrace of prejudice from the minority over the majority, and the media and blogs are so wrapped in it.
Get real it is always going to happen – see the Smacking Bill and the Foreskin and Seabed Bill.
In New Zealand today the majority could not care a stuff – the minorites will always take advantage of that.
Look how thhe part Maoris have taken over huge parts of the country and will continue as apathy continues.
I am in the twighlight years so will not see this, my children and grandchildren do not care anyway, as to how the future of this country proceeds. They are doing very well thanks to a good (private) education that they all have had.
March 18th, 2013 at 10:38 am
“Best comment I’ve read for a while.”
Groan…
Fucking hopeless.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:38 am
“do you think all gay men are feminine”
That is a popular misconception. This is due to the exposure of hi-camp homosexual characters in popular entertainment ranging from Hudson & Halls to the character Sean Tully in Coronation Street for example.
Many people actually believe male homosexuals are effectively women trapped in men’s bodies and gayness is a “hormonal” thing. They’re wrong. A more accurate depiction of a gay male would be to take an extreme tomcat like straight male, multiply his libido by ten, factor in a large amount of malignant narcissism, party drug use and a willingness to engage in a plethora of increasingly divergent and potentially life threatening sexual behaviours.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:39 am
I doubt if many if any will change their mind because of these threads just like Parliament. We could have saved a lot of time and money with the debate and the select committee and submissions.
Key wanted homosexual marriage and adoption and he got it. Just because he was happy to let those with religious beliefs opposed to the above make a token speech within limits as he knew he had the numbers. He would not allow Tau Henare or any National MP to speak in support of a referendum.
He might actually help NZF get elected. If Colin Craig cannot get his rating up to 5% my vote will probably go to Winston and I suspect other will also do the same. MPs should not be deciding moral issues that are determined much more by people’s upbringing than logical debate.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:39 am
This conversation reminds me of a book by Jeanette Winterson “Why be happy if you can be normal”. Although not primarily about homosexuality, it is a great autobiography that deals with the issue of ‘being different’.
A good read for anyone interested in this topic, adoption, and life in general.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:42 am
I don’t think it would be difficult for a perceptive parent, especially in this day and age where blind prejudice is less common.
I had a cousin who was fairly obviously different from a young age (it was commented on in the family), ended up having a sex change as a teen.
A girl I knew fairly well (small school, small town) who turned out to be lesbian, that didn’t surprise me.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:42 am
Judith- Try Erich Fromme’s “The Sane Society”.
He’s a commie like you, but this book says a lot about the insanity of social trends and the mindless sheep that follow them.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:47 am
Gotta love the comparison of homosexuality with alcoholism or gambling.
What does than make you drinking wine or beer, Fletch? Slightly gay? Gay fantasies? Just a little bit gay, for recreational purposes, but you can stop anytime?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:48 am
I certainly did. One of my son’s best friends is a girl, who lives for football and whose bedroom is wall-to-wall boys toys…is she tagged as a lesbian at 7? Of course not, she’s a “tomboy” and “she’ll grow out of it”.
“We’ve know you were gay since you were six”…pfft.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:49 am
The sooner we can get this “f…..g” Act through Parliament the less we will have it thrust down our throats daily, daily, daily by those in favour.
Yep – you’ll be so fucking tired of it all that you won’t even want to think about gay adoption which is next to, if not an automatic part of this act.
Vote:It’s working …
March 18th, 2013 at 10:51 am
“do you think all gay men are feminine”
That is a popular misconception. This is due to the exposure of hi-camp homosexual characters in popular entertainment ranging from Hudson & Halls to the character Sean Tully in Coronation Street for example.
Yep, it’s a “butch” vs “fems” thing.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:53 am
Come on Lucia. Tell us all how being gay can be “cured” by prayer.
I need a good laugh.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:54 am
I support gay marriage, and parents giving their children unconditional love – and that makes me a communist?
WOW! Just WOW! ! Don’t stop taking your medication, its working great!
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:57 am
Oh no this will never stop. The very next thing will be gay marriage. The next thing will be transgender issues. The next thing will be more gay friendly education in schools and kindergarten. The next thing will be rooting out homophobia. This will involve persecuting the church.
Vote:This is not a movement that can be appeased. It can only be resisted. That’s what we need to do, is stand up for what we believe in and what is right. And start electing politicians that have some backbone.
March 18th, 2013 at 10:57 am
Tʜᴇʀᴇ ᴡɪʟʟ ʙᴇ ᴀɴ Iɴᴛᴇʀ-ғᴀɪᴛʜ Pʀᴀʏᴇʀ Vɪɢɪʟ ᴏɴ Pᴀʀʟɪᴀᴍᴇɴᴛ Gʀᴏᴜɴᴅs ᴏɴ Wᴇᴅɴᴇsᴅᴀʏ 27ᴛʜ Mᴀʀᴄʜ ᴀᴛ 6:45ᴘᴍ ɢɪᴠɪɴɢ ᴡɪᴛɴᴇss ᴛᴏ ᴛʜᴇ ᴛʀᴜᴛʜ ᴛʜᴀᴛ ᴍᴀʀʀɪᴀɢᴇ ɪs ᴀ ᴄᴏᴠᴇɴᴀɴᴛ ʙᴇᴛᴡᴇᴇɴ ᴏɴᴇ ᴍᴀɴ ᴀɴᴅ ᴏɴᴇ ᴡᴏᴍᴀɴ, ᴀɴᴅ ɴᴇᴇᴅs ᴛᴏ ʙᴇ ᴘʀᴏᴛᴇᴄᴛᴇᴅ ɪɴ NZ ʟᴀᴡ.
More Info – http://www.fli.org.nz/calendar-events
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:57 am
Sorry you’re disappointed there Redbaiter.
I’ve said before, I don’t support same-sex marriage. Doesn’t mean I automatically hate on homos though, despite what some may think.
May I recommend Philip Yancey’s book, “What’s so Amazing about Grace?” In particular, the chapter where he talks about his friendship with Mel White. Might help you to understand that some things are not a black and white issue.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:58 am
Judith- You’re not a communist because you support “Gay marriage”, although your sad gullibility in respect of this issue is a big part of your seduction by that political system. I’m going on other comments you have posted here that imply your obvious belief in forcibly taking what some people produce and sharing it with those that do not.
Good quote from “The Sane Society”
“The fact that millions of people share the same vices does not make these vices virtues, the fact that they share so many errors does not make the errors to be truths, and the fact that millions of people share the same form of mental pathology does not make these people sane.”
― Erich Fromm.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:59 am
Like this BB?
Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/872u1q1bv279whn/prayer%20power.jpg
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:00 am
“May I recommend Philip Yancey’s book, “What’s so Amazing about Grace?””
I don’t need to read any sugary homosexual propaganda to be naturally compassionate towards other human beings.
You might feel you desperately need to qualify yourself to these scheming manipulative petty tyrants, but I do not.
BTW Judith- the medication thing- it’s so old…
(Like links to infantile graphics from smug progressives.)
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:01 am
The fact that millions of people share the same homophobia does not make homophobia virtues, the fact that they share so many errors does not make the errors to be truths, and the fact that millions of people share the same form of mental pathology does not make these people sane.”
All fixed reddy
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:02 am
A prominent gay rights activist (who was straight and well known to many on this blog) told me that a favourite tactic during the homo law reform debate was to put out extreme press releases in the name of their opponents. They would crEate a fictitious entity (eg Catholic Action or similar) and then put out a statement in their name that made them sound like crazies. He also told me the tactic has been used ever since (remember the bumper stickers put out during a conference when the Prebyterians were debating this issue). There have been other numerous examples.
The end result is that when something like this surfaces, especially if it is anonymous, I take it with a grain of salt. There is every chance the letter is fake propoganda
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:03 am
Scott (1,241) Says:
March 18th, 2013 at 10:57 am
—————————–
Yep, before you know it men will be beating their wives, and murdering their partner’s children, ‘Men of the Cloth’ will be having sexual relations with children, and fathers will be molesting their daughters, many marriages will end in divorce, and child will have to live on welfare – oh wait a minute!
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:04 am
When all other arguments fail, there is always ALL CAPS to make people see the errors of their ways, and things JUST ARE the way you say they are !
have fun at they pray-in, I might check it out just for a laugh if I get the time.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:08 am
……..fake propaganda that the useful idiots it is directed at have no interest in proving its veracity.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:09 am
“have fun at they pray-in, I might check it out just for a laugh if I get the time.”
You forgot the ever present false smilies for once.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:09 am
So am I redbaiter! But I am still not a communist however are too old to be insulted by being called one, Although I will add, that although I am not a communist, much of what Marx and Engels had to say, especially Engels about family is very interesting and I do agree with much of it.
The medication thingy was an insult – I’m glad you noticed it!
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:10 am
Fletch, you may be interested to know that your God does not approve of you mingling with other religions. You are commanded to kill those who do:
You may also be interested to know that Jesus does not approve of your attention whoring antics, as you will simply be doing what Pharisees enjoy doing:
Matthew 6:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:10 am
There is a chance of that, but I wouldn’t say every chance.
What’s the chance anonymous comments here are propaganda or fake propaganda? Some of them could be taken with a grain of salt too.
A bit of that too.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:13 am
When I was a kid, there was a family that were friends of our family. They had two boys. They were a very conservative family.
I was mates with one of the boys. The other boy was clearly gay, though we did not think of it in those terms. My parents, themselves conservative, explained he was a girl in a mans body. He used to play with my sisters, while I did guy stuff with his brother. He was never any other way. I am not sure you would even call him “gay” as such. He really was just like a girl. He had a huge collection of dolls.
He was clearly “born that way”. I have never seen anyone like that since.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:13 am
“All fixed reddy”
Yep, someone else’s work adulterated by the addition of a fake propaganda term is what you would call “fixed”.
Just like your Global Warming crap.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:15 am
Its “fake”
That makes it a parable.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:18 am
Baiter –
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:18 am
DPF, let’s cut to the chase. All good dad’s love their sons, unconditionally. But by putting up this letter are you inferring.
a) that dad’s who ACCEPT their son’s homosexuality are loving
b) that dad’s who DON”T accept their son’s homosexuality are unloving.
Otherwise, I’m not sure of the relevance of your post? It is totally possible to love your son and not accept his sexuality choices.
There seems to be an insistence here, like we see in so much of this debate, that only ACCEPTERS are loving and tolerant? Am I wrong on this?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:20 am
“The medication thingy was an insult – I’m glad you noticed it!”
More of an insult to you than me.
David Garret is another relative newbie who frequently uses the same hackneyed allegations.
I’ve been reading them for a decade or more, and they’re always the fall back position of incoherent newbie nincompoops made speechless by sudden confrontation on boilerplate bullshit they’ve held dear all their lives.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:23 am
The whole thing is based around propaganda. What lies at the heartland of the homosexual lifestyle is the polar opposite to what is portrayed. What do people think goes on at the gay clubs and saunas? Do they just cavort around to Kylie Minogue hits and swap quiche recipes? One doesn’t need to look to far to find the truth: An ad for basement Club from the GayNZ website:
Yep. Virtually around the clock gay clubs are rocking to the beat of anonymous gay sex through glory holes in cubicles with random strangers. This is the truth of the homosexual lifestyle, not monogamy, family and commitment.
As Ian Wishart noted, just google “gay orgy nz” and see what results appear . . .
If these behaviours are in accord with that of normal mum/dad/children families I’d be most surprised.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:27 am
…and if women would line up for anonymous sex, straight people would be doing it too.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:30 am
“…and if women would line up for anonymous sex, straight people would be doing it too.”
A statement unconsciously demonstrating typical Progressive style contempt for concepts like marital fidelity.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:31 am
Which could be like saying you love your son, but if he marries a Jew he’s out of the family. Reasonable people might argue that loving your son implies respect and acceptance for the person that he loves more than anyone else in the world.
Although granted it wouldn’t imply respect and acceptance for anonymous sex with random strangers through glory holes in cubicles.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:33 am
Today’s buzzword is “boilerplate” then? We’ve been reading you for a long time too Weddy, we know how you operate
RRM listened to about half of Haydn’s The Creation on the train this morning.
As someone who does not have God or Jesus in his life it is nonetheless quite moving to listen to the beautiful music that other mens’ apparently sincere faith in – and love for – the sky fairy have inspired throughout the history of our civilisation.
I particularly like the depiction of chaos at the start, and then the MASSIVE chord from the choir and orchestra at the “and God said, let there be light” moment. A few seconds of extremely loud music that seem to have the whole universe crammed into them. In a funy way it’s a bit like erbaume dich from Bach’s St Matthew Passion.. even for those of us who regard it as just a fairy tale, it is a pretty fairy tale, and you can’t help but appreciate its central role in our heritage, and you can’t help but be moved by the humility that you’d think it would inspire in almost anyone.
It’s just a shame that so many lesser people apparently go to church, and read their bible, and find in it only excuses to judge and condemn others. Christianity could be so much more beautiful than it actually is…
There, a good classical music playlist for you. It’s all on youtube. Go ye forth, and be enlightened!
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:35 am
Observing that men generally desire to fuck anything that moves does not imply contempt for fidelity.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:39 am
It’s just a shame that so many lesser people apparently go to church, and read their bible, and find in it only excuses to judge and condemn others. Christianity could be so much more beautiful than it actually is…
The thing is that liberals only take notice of anything to do with Christianity when it conflicts with their liberal beliefs. Otherwise they don’t take the time to seek out Christianity – to go to a Church, etc. They just ignore what Christians do the rest of the time. If they took the time to find out, they’d see there is much more going on than judging.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:41 am
Redbaiter (2,378) Says:
March 18th, 2013 at 11:20 am
“The medication thingy was an insult – I’m glad you noticed it!”
More of an insult to you than me.
David Garret is another relative newbie who frequently uses the same hackneyed allegations.
I’ve been reading them for a decade or more, and they’re always the fall back position of incoherent newbie nincompoops made speechless by sudden confrontation on boilerplate bullshit they’ve held dear all their lives.
———————————
You do yourself a total injustice by reverting to the ‘newbie’ excuse or is it meant to be an insult?
Because I have been busy elsewhere or perhaps enjoying a lifestyle that meant I either didn’t require, or even know about Kiwiblog, makes me in some way ‘inferior’? Thus implying that those who have enjoyed the ‘facility’ for a longer period, are by some ‘given right’ able to make comments that are more acceptable? You further imply that having been ‘here’ for a decade, somehow provides you with the information necessary to know what a person has ‘held dear’ all their lives.
Can I suggest that having been ‘here’ for ten years, you appear to have lost all sense of rationality and it is in fact you, who appears to believe that your monitor is a ‘crystal ball’, who is indeed the delusional one. Perhaps after ten years, it is time you logged off.
and a 
because you clearly hate them!
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:41 am
The heavens are telling is awesome too. I sometimes hear that in my head when I’m driving the Triumph on back roads (it is an English language oratorio after all)
It is not sensible music to have in the cd player though, it gives you a feeling of being some kind of unstoppable force, capable of going faster and faster… not really a very good angel to have on your shoulder when driving a car that is geared for a happy cruising speed much faster than 100km/h
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:42 am
“Observing that men generally desire to fuck anything that moves does not imply contempt for fidelity.”
A statement that adds to the first impression and implies that for you to think such a thing to be true, you must be some kind of uncivilised ill brought up mentally damaged animal.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:42 am
@Urban Redneck – too much information already.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:45 am
British Leylands and CD players.. no wonder you’re so enthralled by Marxism, a doctrine from almost two centuries ago.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:46 am
Redbaiter: If you’re going to be like that then please name two things in your life that make you happy.
You do sometimes feel happy, don’t you?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:47 am
“Perhaps after ten years, it is time you logged off.”
But who would you read and respond to then?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:49 am
Kea,
I don’t know about being born that way. Sounds like the parents must have encouraged it, as there is no way a boy can get a huge collection of dolls without parental involvement.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:50 am
Urban Red your post is pretty on the nail. There are two worlds going on here:
1) the fantasy gay commitment/monogamy/Waltons loving family gay version (“Modern Family”).
2) and the reality of the promiscuous sexualised lifestyle with all its emphasis on sex (that even the AIDS Fdtn acknowledges is indicative of gay culture in NZ).
A majority of our MPs are looking with blinkered eyes at what they want to believe, not what is REAL.
The Folsom Street Gay Fair is real because this is how gays there market themselves. That is the level of some things.
It is fair to say these excesses are in the heterosexual community too, but to a lessor degree and NOT as a basis for identity, rights and redefining others civil institutions.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:50 am
“Please name two things in your life that make you happy.”
1) Reading a thread where your trite sub-intelligent nakedly narcissistic left wing fucked in the head crap is not present
2) Seeing a comment from you that reveals I have pissed you off.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:51 am
The Gay Report – by Karla Jay & Allen Young was the first and perhaps most candid and comprehensive study of homosexual behaviours undertaken. It was unique in that for the first time, a light was shone into the dark side of the homosexual subculture. Both authors were homosexuals themselves.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:56 am
Redbaiter (2,381) Says:
March 18th, 2013 at 11:47 am
“Perhaps after ten years, it is time you logged off.”
But who would you read and respond to then?
———————————
The DOG is within you Redbaiter.
You are the ‘only one’, perhaps the ‘chosen one’? The only voice of sensibility, the only one whose narrative provides nutrition for the starving ignorant?
There is non-other but thyself who offers the feast of words for us mere ‘newbies’ to consume, a narrative that provides us with the opportunist enrichment of a responsive action?
LOL, you’re hilarious Redbaiter!
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:00 pm
Redbaiter –
Glad to know my existence is such an important part of what makes yours worthwhile! Somehow I suspected as much.
I think I’ll stick to my old cars and old music myself…
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:00 pm
What do people think goes on at the brothels and whorehouses? Yep. Virtually around the clock brothels are rocking to the beat of anonymous straight sex in cubicles with random strangers. This is the truth of the heterosexual lifestyle, not monogamy, family and commitment.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:02 pm
“Glad to know my existence is such an important part of what makes yours worthwhile!”
There’s that narcissism again. You just asked for two examples, so I provided two small ones. Its your own over-sized ego that makes you think yourself “important”,
“I think I’ll stick to my old cars and old music myself…”
Not forgetting your old politics.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:04 pm
Let’s look to the Dutch:
This is how it gets done.
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2013/03/13/a-minute-to-midnight-sexual-suicide-in-the-west/
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:05 pm
Who baits the baiter
……eh…..
And I have missed lots of these
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:06 pm
So when one child wants a toy gun for xmas he should be allowed it because he is male, however, when the other wants a doll, he shouldn’t be allowed it, because he is male?
Aren’t they both giving the child a gift that will provide them with enjoyment? What would be the point of giving a child a gift they neither wanted nor enjoyed?
.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:10 pm
If you’re going to cite weird fringe material from gay prehistory, then I fully intend to refer to things like US anti-abortion terrorism in the eighties and nineties, and Christian Reconstruction/theonomy, an anti-democratic fundamentalist philosophy which believes in republican religious dictatorship. And as for our conservative Catholic friends, did you honestly think the rest of us had forgotten about Tradition Family and Property’s unhealthy relationships with Latin American military dictatorships or Father Paul Marx and his disgusting anti-Semitic remarks about the Nazi Holocaust and abortion?
Phobes have their own extremists too.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:14 pm
Like others, I’m completely gayed out. However, on the bright side the big positive in DPF trolling his own blog is the predictable reactions from the underbelly of NZ society in the form of the usual suspects here. The foaming spitting bile is a sight to behold and the paradigm of them flailing and punching their keyboards, knashing their teeth and frothing at the mouth, red-faced and jugulars bulging with their apoplexy is very amusing. Although in one respect yesterday’s effort was discomforting in terms of the naked hatred on display, it was nevertheless wonderful to see the usual suspects, including the phoney Christians, work themselves into such a lather.
It’s interesting also that the other day mandk raised the very relevant and insightful point that the fact that this issue has attracted so much argument, indirectly puts the spotlight on another issue that has more compelling ethical and moral issues; namely abortion. The point being, why on earth should this attract so much more attention than abortion? Aside from being debatable on the basis of base morality and ethics without recourse to religious beliefs, abortion and euthenasia are also subjects that are sensitive to those of the Christian persuasion.
The gay marriage debate also raises the issue of why the state should interfere in the first place in what consitutes marriage and the reasons for prohibiting certain sexual relationships and that debate in turn leads into debate about the ability of people like the Glassies to have children.
So, the bait having been laid, did these issues attract “discussion”. Hell no. They were all fixated with their front of mind homo paradigm: a guy’s cock up another guy’s arse. LOL ‘baitey’s “chutneychuteguy”.
And to those who have just had enough, as someone earlier said, don’t click the link. You know what you are going to be reading.
graham @ 10:09 & 10:57
Good one, and exactly.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:17 pm
Here is a photo of a Boiler Plate:
http://www.steamrail.org.nz/vehicles/x442/x442tofldg/x2b.jpg
You may have noticed it is RED and it is Government funded
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:17 pm
“Like others, I’m completely gayed out.”
Never have believed it myself. But then again, I couldn’t help but read the ads above. Must be quite exhausting all that stuff, and commenting here too.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
Sorry ‘baitey. I’ve got something else I need to do so you’ll have to play with yourself. Do you remember how?? Of course you do.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:24 pm
BTW, Chutneychuteguy is a parody of the narcissistic handles you queers always favour- (You yourself know exactly what I mean.)
How come its OK for the queers to parody others but they get all hurt and offended when they’re parodied themselves?
I’ll tell you what seems to be coming more and more obvious as this debate goes on- homosexuality appears to be a subset of NPD.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:30 pm
I don’t think anyone is OFFENDED by the handle “Chutneychuteguy”
But DVM is saying it provides an interesting window into your soul. The dark smelly recesses of it
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:37 pm
12.35 and 125 comments. don’t any of you work?
Is it real or a fake?
who knows?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:47 pm
Judith,
Um, yeah. Though, normally, parents don’t ask their kids what they want for Christmas – I know I never did, it ruins the surprise.
If your boy likes dolls, it’s best to channel that into lego toys or something. You get the little people to play with and can still build stuff and play with the cars and trucks and feel like a boy. It stops the pigeon-holing from a young age.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:49 pm
“Personally, I think this letter is probably a fake as well.”
Just to be clear, this is a so-called “Christian” – someone who claims to believe in the veracity of a book with magic pixies and talking donkies – off-handedly dismissing as fake a simple note purported to be from a father to a son.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:49 pm
More like the dark smelley recesses of chutney’s hole.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:53 pm
“If your boy likes dolls, it’s best to channel that into lego toys or something. ”
According to your “logic”, Lucia, if your parents had bought you Lego you would have become a lesbian.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 12:56 pm
Hey! this site is becoming like facebook! enable me and my tacky posts or go to hell!
This is a fake letter, it is exactly like a billion other nonsensical feel good clap trap ‘like pages’ that get blurted out all over facebook everyday for insecure intellectual lightweights to fawn all over followed by much drivel in the comments section.
Good bloody grief DPF! you’re smarter than this!
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 1:00 pm
Is that ‘note’ or ‘Nate’ on the top of the letter?
They named their son ‘Nate’? what’s his middle name? dogg?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 1:11 pm
Beware the Lego present! There could be a hidden meaning.
Coincidentally last night my granddaughter was playing with her digger. She wanted someone to drive it and asked her mother to supply her with someone. The first offer was turned down because she wanted someone “with Lego on their bum”.
She was given a Lego doctor and she was happy with that, the driver stayed seated. But I’m not sure if doctors would be happy doing such down to earth work, I think my granddaughter may have been indoctrinated by the hospital day care she used to attend.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 1:11 pm
This story is not fake. The woman wrote a book about what is like to be raised by a deviant father and a weak mother who should have protected her. She has also written a book about her experience with her father and some of his bisexual mates. It is worth reading by anyone who is not a bigoted libertarian.
Woman raised in homosexual household speaks against same-sex marriage
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/woman_raised_in_homosexual_household_speaks_against_samesex_marriage/
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 1:13 pm
“This is a fake letter,”
Have you got proof of that? Or are you just guessing?
I don’t know if it is fake or authentic – not that that changes the message nore excuses the reactions.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 1:19 pm
“Have you got proof of that? Or are you just guessing?”
Have you any proof it is genuine?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 1:26 pm
I don’t know if it is fake or authentic – not that that changes the message nore excuses the reactions.
It changes everything actually Pete, because it’s bullshit presented as fact.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 1:30 pm
It changes everything actually Pete, because it’s bullshit presented as fact.”
Was it the talking donkey that gave it away?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 1:41 pm
Shunda barunda, your claim it is fake isn’t backed up by anything I’ve seen. I searched for reports of the letter being fake and the only hit was this thread! In contrast a number of media are reporting it as factual.
I’ll believe it’s fake when I see reasonable proof it’s fake, but so far the evidence is leaning the other way.
DPF claimed it is genuine.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 1:54 pm
Isn’t it amazing that the “son” shares the same name as this guy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nate_Berkus
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 1:57 pm
“Nate” is just short for Nathan isn’t it?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 1:58 pm
Isn’t it amazing that Shunda barunda shares the same name as:
Hmmm.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:01 pm
Regardless of what one feels about homosexuals [I consider myself to be ambivalant, that is I accept that some men are homosexual but I don't like to see men kissing each other on the lips] we don’t really know if that letter is genuine or not.
Vote:I do have a problem with the father saying he knew his son was a homosexual when he was six, but he might be just saying that to make his son feel better.
I would need to see a sample of the father’s handwriting before deciding if I believed that letter was genuine.
But at least it was hand-written and not typed. I certainly would not have believed it was written by the father if it was typed.
March 18th, 2013 at 2:05 pm
You have to be a father to understand a father’s love toward his children.
If one of my sons came out and said he was homosexual/gay, I would be deeply saddened, but at the same time, my love for him would not diminish. We do not have to accept all the decisions our children make, but we still love them.
Both my sons and my daughter have all grown up as well balanced and successful members of society – all happily married (except my oldest son, who is divorced because his ex-wife was jumping the fence a shagging other men – bitch) and all have beautiful children.
.
I have a close friend who has a son who is gay – he came out about 8 years ago. Fred loves his son very much, and was devastated by his son’s choice, to the extent that it affected his life – he withdrew, was not his happy jovial self for around 5 or 6 years. He has finally overcome his grief – which is what it is. But he still loves his son deeply – on an overseas trip I accompanied him on a few years ago, he bought a gift for his son and his partner.
Because a father loves his sons, it does not mean that he is happy with all the decisions they make. These types of events can has very traumatic results, but a father’s love continues.
Love is an act of the will – not a sensation in the genital area.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:06 pm
Isn’t it amazing that Shunda barunda shares the same name as:
Ooo I’m busted, the gig is up.
Now lets get back to fawning over a tacky hand written note………..
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:11 pm
Yes, busted for making up accusations about the athenticity of the letter, and making up accusations about who might be responsible for the letter. Without any proof at all . That’s what’s tacky.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:14 pm
I think the letter has as much chance of being genuine as Robin Bain’s suicide message.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:16 pm
“Without any proof at all . That’s what’s tacky.”
Where is your proof it is genuine?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:20 pm
Here is the original antithesis.
Note the similarity of format. Only the message has been changed.
http://www.news.com.au/world-news/father-disowns-gay-son-in-heartbreaking-letter/story-fndir2ev-1226445608951
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:25 pm
Similar to those Area 51 posters: I want to believe.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:25 pm
“FCKH8.com founder Luke Montgomery told Yahoo that the letter was emailed to them by Nate. Montgomery admitted: ‘We get a lot of crazy stuff, so I almost didn’t look at it.’ When he did he burst into tears.”
lol yeah well the founder of the gay company sounds like a faggot.
also, lol @ chuck
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:28 pm
Indeed… both are HAND WRITTEN on PAPER.
I mean, who does that, right?
CLEARLY both documents are part of the same bent homosexual propaganda exercise…
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:38 pm
Gee RRM do you really think that people with agendas don’t make shit up – hell the left have got lying down to a fine art, including not infrequently bogus hate crime.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:43 pm
Andrei – That’s a bit like saying Christians have got child sex crimes down to a fine art, just look at Graham Capill.
I have yet to see anyone on here prove the allegation that it’s fake.
Your claim that “Gay activists make shit up” is about as compelling as a piece of evidence as “all conservatives are homophobes”…
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:43 pm
No they did not encourage it. This was way before such things were openly discussed. His parents were horrified, but the boy was clearly not right from the get go. He did not – emerge- as a homosexual, he just was. Of course at that stage he showed no attraction to males, he was just feminine.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 3:00 pm
“I have yet to see anyone on here prove the allegation that it’s fake.”
I have yet to see anyone on here prove the letter is genuine.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 3:01 pm
“CLEARLY both documents are part of the same bent homosexual propaganda exercise”
@RRM
One of your more sensible posts.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 3:04 pm
“Was it the talking donkey that gave it away?”
Pity you weren’t as sharp on cultural Marxism as you are on religion.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 3:08 pm
Why does this subject incite so much commentary ?
There are far bigger problems in the world today. Christians could gain far more influence and traction if they addressed the real concerns facing society, instead of indulging their age old obsession with peoples sex lives.
How about pontentially saving the lives of millions by campaigning to allow DDT to be used [again] for controling mosquitos ? Why not put the weight of the church behind that cause ? Instead all I see are our christian brothers banging on about poofters.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 3:15 pm
Yes, busted for making up accusations about the athenticity of the letter, and making up accusations about who might be responsible for the letter. Without any proof at all . That’s what’s tacky.
Ok Pete. lets examine the veracity of this amazing piece of literary genius.
Tell me this. If the father of ‘Nate’ really overheard that his son was going to come out as gay, he had no problem with it, was accepting and proud of his son, why the hell would he deny his son the opportunity to tell him in person? why cheapen such a monumental life changing occasion (which they apparently believe it is) with hand written bloody note!!
They come across as a model liberal progressive family, so why the tacky hand written note that looks like it was written by a child?
Because it was written by a child, you can take a photograph of it, and you can like the shit out of it on facebook.
This is fluff, monumental fluffy nonsense.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 3:18 pm
“Why does this subject incite so much commentary ?”
Such as the ones you have made?
Or are you just talking about everyone else.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 3:19 pm
Why does this subject incite so much commentary ?
There are far bigger problems in the world today. Christians could gain far more influence and traction if they addressed the real concerns facing society, instead of indulging their age old obsession with peoples sex lives.
Are you friggin joking?
You bastards are the ones discussing/sharing this stupid note on hyperdrive on social media, THAT’S HOW FARRAR FOUND IT!!
Ya bloody egg.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 3:19 pm
I don’t think it matters whether the actual letter is genuine or fake. What is written has been claimed to evoke the same sort of emotion that fathers in the same position have felt – therefore what the letter portrays is an accurate account of such a relationship – at least for some people. It is a great letter, regardless of its origins because it opens up the dialogue – just the same as the countless religious pamphlets delivered to our homes are meant to do. Discussion over its authenticity are only attempts to divert attention away from the actual subject.
That a parent could even consider not ‘loving’ their child because of their sexuality is beyond my comprehension – just the same as it was when my best friends family disowned her for not marrying a fellow catholic. I guess for some, parental love is regarded as a service that can be ‘bought & sold’ – depending on the child’s compliance.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 3:24 pm
Kea @ 3:08 – Rest assured there are some Christians addressing real problems out there (as I’m sure you know). Here’s one example I wasn’t aware of until recently.
https://www.mercyships.org/
Basically, fully equipped hospital ships that travel to where they are needed most – Republic of Congo is the next destination – and provide free health care and surgery. They’re staffed by volunteers who pay their own way. Essentially, they do it because they believe it’s following Jesus’ example.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 3:24 pm
I don’t think it matters whether the actual letter is genuine or fake.
Then you are a dishonest idiot.
Vote:Nothing you say should (or could) be taken seriously.
March 18th, 2013 at 3:40 pm
Shunda:
And you just making up accusations is honest?
It’s interesting to see confirmation that amongst Christians there’s much debate about these topics. See the comments at:
Parliament paints Anglican church into corner over gay marriage.
For example:
Sometimes these marriage and homosexuality debates can appear as if it’s Christian versus Christian but as this shows, and as shown by graham’s and other’s comments at times, there’s a variety of views across the spiritual spectrum.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 3:52 pm
graham, yes some Christians are out there doing some real good. Others just pour hate on homos here on KB.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 3:58 pm
weak article Farrar, weak. weak. weak
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 4:26 pm
Kea,
There is no way a child can accumulate a large collection of dolls without parental involvement. Dolls weren’t cheap when I was growing up, and I’m guessing you’re not that much different in age to me. So, the parents would have to be giving the boy serious money for the dolls or buying them for him themselves. Unless he was stealing them, and then that’s a whole different story.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 4:32 pm
graham, yes some Christians are out there doing some real good. Others just pour hate on homos here on KB.
No one here is “pouring hate on homos”, I certainly don’t hate gay people, but I do loath facebook fluff with a passion.
And that is exactly what this is.
There is actually a trend on facebook to quote people that didn’t say anything of the sort, they have a little picture of the person and then a bogus statement as if it is a direct quotation. There are whole pages devoted to this dishonest bullshit.
It’s all rooted in cheap enablement and deep seated insecurity, but heaven help the poor individual that dares correct them.
So remember Kea, not “hating homos” just loathing deliberate deception and fluffy nonsense.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 4:35 pm
It still amazes me that the christians even feel entitled to have an opinion about homosexuals… let alone about whether or not other people’s children should own friggen dolls!
Thank God for power trips for inconsequential little negative people, eh?
THOU SHALT NOT!
Vote:It says so right here in my sticker book!
March 18th, 2013 at 5:04 pm
“Pity you weren’t as sharp on cultural Marxism as you are on religion.”
Said the social engineer. Our very own Sue Bradford.
Are you still maintaining that we should have no secrets from the state, even in our bedrooms, Sue?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 5:14 pm
Not quite 1 wat of brain energy, its why they should call you halfwat.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 5:15 pm
Call me cynical but when I see something like this, with no attribution, originating at a site selling gay pride t-shirts, I just think “viral ad” and turn off.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 5:23 pm
Fuck is anybody else over this whole ‘Gay Marriage’ thing already?
Vote:Let them get married if they want- Who fucking cares?
Only a minuscule percentage are even remotely interested in getting hitched. The rest are just beating their chests and trying to deliberately piss off the church any way they can (who they see as ‘The Enemy’)
Let them think they can get married, adopt, whatever. None of them will..they are far too busy having rampant promiscuous bum sex in dirty public toilets to ever contemplate settling down.
March 18th, 2013 at 5:36 pm
“…they are far too busy having rampant promiscuous bum sex in dirty public toilets to ever contemplate settling down.”
You mean someone like Lord Norman St John Stevas, Tory cabinet minister under Thatcher, ‘chairman of the Royal Fine Art Commission and master of Emmanuel College…prolific author and prominent Roman Catholic’?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2294622/Partners-50-years–Lord-St-John-tied-knot-save-money-Tory-dandy-married-gay-lover-secret-avoid-1-2million-inheritance-tax-bill.html
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 5:40 pm
pq, now doing barnyard animal impressions?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 5:53 pm
Lucia, he used to make dolls, big ones, out of cardboard boxes. He used knitting wool for hair. I remember it well. I understand your view, but you did not have the benefit of meeting this person. He was never like a little boy at any stage. Ever. I was only young then, but I think my parents were right. He was a girl in a mans body.
Giving him a hard time would be like picking on someone for having a birth defect. Very uncharitable and (I suggest) *unchristian.
* The Christian thing to do would be put him to death. As per the crystal clear words of the bible.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 5:59 pm
Truly you have hit on the only possible solution Kea….stone them all to death & let God sort them out.
Practical Christianity at its finest.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 6:02 pm
Like beating up Christians right?
Lamer.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 6:04 pm
nasska, I do not know why these [so called] Christians are so shy about revealing Gods word to us in these debates. All I ask is a bit of honesty ! Is that too much to ask
Some interesting commentary on this law:
Liberal Christians Some comments on the death penalty aspect of this passage by pastors and academics taking a liberal position are:
Vote:J. Nelson: “It is grounded in the old Jewish understanding that women are less worthy than men. For a man to have sex with another man ‘as with a woman’ insults the other man, because women are to be treated as property.”
March 18th, 2013 at 6:18 pm
The position the Godbotherers find themselves in has its roots in the patriarchal, violent customs of the ancient tribes of the Middle East 2/4000 years ago. No sane person would cite Leviticus as an example of how to run a modern society but the refusal of the Godstruck to accept the OT as merely a history of the people of the region affords many of us KB commenters hours of fun.
In any case I’ve nothing in particular against any Gods…..it’s their loopy followers that show religion up in a bad light.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 6:20 pm
Kea,
Oh, so he made dolls. That certainly changes the impression. Ok …
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 6:29 pm
Lucia Maria, you slippery little God botherer you !
The issue you raised was cost. I addressed it.
I invite you to consider how you would feel if your son came out that way. I recall that, even in red neck provincial NZ, people sympathised with the family. My mate was very distressed by his older brother being so girly. It was an unfortunate situation that went a bit beyond dolls.
Do you think the people should have gathered around and stoned him to death ? If not, then explain why ?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 6:30 pm
I see 2 folk have thumbed me down for quoting scripture. Dam atheists
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 6:34 pm
Perhaps if you’d spread the rumour that he was wearing cotton/polyester shirts the issue would have been resolved much faster Kea.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 6:41 pm
Kea- I got two ‘thumbs down’ and I actually support Gay Marriage! (I’m just under no illusions about how sordid the lifestyle is..)
Vote:Hateful Bigots.
March 18th, 2013 at 6:46 pm
LOL, Kea!
I had this impression of all these beautiful dolls all lined up in their lace and perfect faces, not giant things made out of cardboard. My point being that my impression must have been enabled by the parents, but now that you’ve actually explained it, I can see why the parents were horrified. It’s almost like a precursor to a blow up doll fetish – an entirely different thing altogether.
Of course I don’t think he should have been stoned to death.
I do think that once the family noticed he only wanted to play with girls that the father should have spent more time with him, taking him on father-son excursions and teaching him more boy-like ways rather than expecting he would just pick them up. Some boys just need more attention, especially younger ones.
I have a younger brother that my father thought was a bit scared of him, so he thought the best thing to do would be to just leave him alone and maybe he’d get over it. Now, my brother has spent 20 years on a sickness benefit, diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, due to a complete breakdown when our dad died. My dad should have just moved past this fear thing he saw, except he didn’t really know how to be a dad due to his own dad not actually being there for him due to the war.
Maybe our generation and future ones can learn from the mistakes of the past.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 6:49 pm
Laying with man as with woman is an ABOMINATION. But so is eating mussels and crayfish:
Here are some other things to watch out for (so as not to displease God)
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 6:54 pm
Lucia, I think everything would have been done to “harden up” the boy. As I mentioned in my original post, this sort of thing is probably an exception. But it does serve to show that we can be born a different way and our natures are not entirely dictated by environment. This kid hung out with my sisters when he was younger ( he got to play with real dolls), but I guess once he reached sexual maturity…
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 7:04 pm
Laying with man as with woman is an ABOMINATION. But so is eating mussels and crayfish
“And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.”
– Leviticus 20.13
But then there’s Matthew 8:5-13 and Luke 7:1-10. In Matthew, a centurion came to Jesus to plead for the healing of his servant. Jesus said he was willing to come to the centurion’s house, but the centurion said there was no need for Jesus to do so — he believed that if Jesus simply spoke the word, his servant would be healed. Marveling at the man’s faith, Jesus pronounced the servant healed.
The word for the servant, in the Greek – pais – is the same word used in ancient Greek to refer to a same-gender partner. This is consistent with other contemporary translations.
Vote:But instead of commenting that, or casting any stones [as others might say, He alone would be entitled to do] Christ said “Assuredly, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel!”
Unfortunate as this is for some people’s arguments, it is in the Bible – one of those bloody annoying things like proclaiming Mary’s son to be called Emmanuelle, but that mention is its only appearance in the Bible.
March 18th, 2013 at 7:04 pm
Why does this subject incite so much commentary ?
There are far bigger problems in the world today. Christians could gain far more influence and traction if they addressed the real concerns facing society, instead of indulging their age old obsession with peoples sex lives.
Because, if marriage is destroyed, the family is destroyed. If the family goes, so goes the stable environment that children are supposed to be raised in. If that stable environment goes, you get children who are more likely to turn out to be delinquent – it’s a fact. Children not raised by their two biological parents are likely to have more behavioural problems etc, problems with learning, substance abuse, the list goes on.
Basically, if you destroy the family, you’re destroying the building blocks of society and giving govt an inroad into every aspect of our lives.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 7:06 pm
The word for the servant, in the Greek – pais – is the same word used in ancient Greek to refer to a same-gender partner. This is consistent with other contemporary translations.
I’m sorry, but what complete bollocks!!
Vote:Way to go, twisting the Bible to suit your needs.
March 18th, 2013 at 7:09 pm
chutneychutebaiterguy does humor.
Leave it to the professionals old dear.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 7:09 pm
Kea (2,592) Says:
March 18th, 2013 at 6:49 pm
———–
My god just told me to stop stuffing round on the internet and cook him some eggs.
Anything about not eating eggs on the list? Just checking in case I might want to swap Gods.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 7:10 pm
I’m ya huckleberry Longknives.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 7:26 pm
I can’t believe the comments generated by this post from DPF. Who cares if the letter is real or not. This thread is full of homophobes, disgusting and sad really.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 7:45 pm
If it’s not real then it fits the pattern of promotion of an agenda by emotive manipulation of the public.
Ask yourself this: If you wanted to relate to your child about their sexuality, would you write them a note, or would you speak to them face to face?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 7:46 pm
“But then there’s …”
Yvette, I will refer to Fletch’s words
“I’m sorry, but what complete bollocks!!
Way to go, twisting the Bible to suit your needs.”
Sorry Yvette, but the bible is very clear on how homos should be dealt with. If you do not like that, pick another religion.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 7:50 pm
However, gay marriage will strengthen marriage and will strengthen family.
And it will have no effect one existing or future straight marriages and families at all.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 7:50 pm
Fletch – I’m sorry, but what complete bollocks!! Way to go, twisting the Bible to suit your needs.
No, not to suit my own needs at all – I’m just mentioning something that is as valid as many other comments made here
Vote:But it is there, inconveniently for some, a minor mystery for others [like, Why did Judas need to kiss Jesus to identify him to the Temple guards]
Accept it or reject it as you will – and I see you have. No problem.
March 18th, 2013 at 7:51 pm
thedavincimode (4,602) Says:
March 18th, 2013 at 7:10 pm
I’m ya huckleberry Longknives
You’re no daisy! You’re no daisy at all.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 8:22 pm
Kea – Sorry Yvette, but the bible is very clear on how homos should be dealt with. If you do not like that, pick another religion.
So Christ apparently regarded homosexuals quite differently to adultresses? Bugger
[And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground ]
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 8:35 pm
Michael Laws column from today in which he says that gay laws will create a new inequity.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/opinion/8429474/Laws-Gay-marriage-law-creates-new-inequity
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 8:39 pm
Sorry Yvette, but the bible is very clear on how homos should be dealt with. If you do not like that, pick another religion.
Kea, you should join a church, you are very good at barking scripture at people that you either haven’t read, taken out of context, or just plain don’t understand.
You would make a great ‘cut n paste’ Christian.
I recommend Pentecostalism, you can practically speak in tongues already!
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:05 pm
Kea,
I wasn’t talking about “hardening the boy up”, I was talking about his dad helping him into the world of boys and men. That’s an entirely different thing from you think. Some boys need more attention in this area, because everyone is different and won’t react the same way to the same situations.
Glad to see you are interested in the Bible. In Old Testament times, Leviticus added some legal processes to what would have most likely been a lynching. It’s still very common in the Middle East to just pick up stones and launch them at people, the priest on Sunday was saying. He had been in Jerusalem for a number of years and been subject to two attacks himself.
So, in Old Testament times, death was only warranted for certain things rather than just taking a disliking to a certain person, as can happen. Also that death signified spiritual death, which is an important thing to take with you into New Testament times, where as you might remember me telling you the other day, Jesus, who is God, told a whole lot of men who wanted to stone a woman to death for adultery (where was the male adulterer, btw?) that he was without sin should cast first stone. He told her after when they all had left that he would not condemn her, but that she should sin no more. He wanted her soul, not for her to die in sin, which is physical and spiritual death. No person needs to die today, God is always ready to forgive – so that they might live forever.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:14 pm
What’s god’s thoughts on those that don’t want to live forever Lucia?
Vote:Living for ever could get a bit boring for some folks.
March 18th, 2013 at 9:21 pm
Sexual equality is completely foreign to Judaic law, it prohibits homosexuality for men but not for women.
English common law is built on this, where the husband’s role is to protect his wife.
Sexual equality came to Rome by way of the Etruscans, who brought with them the word phersu, meaning mask, which later became person (i.e. persona). The Etruscans used a different word to describe a free man.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:35 pm
Nostalgia-NZ (3,182) Says:
March 18th, 2013 at 9:14 pm
What’s god’s thoughts on those that don’t want to live forever Lucia?
Living for ever could get a bit boring for some folks.
——————————–
Not only would it be boring, but it would be physically impossible for the planet to sustain life if everyone lived forever. Procreation would have to cease. New life could only occur if someone decided to kill themselves, because there simply would not be room otherwise.
There would be no grandparents, because people could not age – aging leads to death. Eventually the physical wears out. There would be no need to set goals, to reach any new limits, you’d have forever to do that, so why hurry? No motivation to do anything – because there is always tomorrow – plenty of tomorrows.
Can you imagine being married to the same person forever – you know that annoying little thing they do that really peeves you off now – imagine having to put up with that every day for 1,000 years and then some. I expect the divorce rate would be extremely high.
No thanks, I’m happy to move on and make room for others – those that seek eternal life – deserve it.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:44 pm
“Yes, busted for making up accusations about the athenticity of the letter, and making up accusations about who might be responsible for the letter. Without any proof at all . That’s what’s tacky.”
With anyone else this might be an unbelievable example of hypocrisy. With PG, a coward who constantly accuses others of dishonesty without the slightest proof, its about par for the course.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 9:51 pm
“ In Old Testament times, Leviticus added some legal processes to what would have most likely been a lynching…So, in Old Testament times, death was only warranted for certain things rather than just taking a disliking to a certain person, as can happen.”
Like stoning disobedient children to death for example.
All nice and legal.
Truly, if you want an example of horrific fucked-up morality, talk to a ‘Christian.’
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:00 pm
Of course halfwat, you secularists have such an impeccable record.
100 million dealt with only relatively recently wasn’t it?
At least the crimes you accuse Christians of are ancient.
What your buddies did only last century was stark barbarian insanity.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:01 pm
How many parents would testify against their child knowing that the child would die as a result of their testimony?
Threats don’t have to be carried out to be effective.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:04 pm
Like stoning disobedient children to death for example.
All nice and legal.
Truly, if you want an example of horrific fucked-up morality, talk to a ‘Christian.’
I guess the gutting of innocent live children and spreading their body parts all over an altar was equivalent? because that’s what the Canaanites and other barbaric cultures of the time were doing.
Even with the brutality of the Levitical laws, the Hebrews were the most moral culture of the day by a long shot.
Judging human history by the standards of today is full of problems, every culture on earth conducted itself with a brutality that is inconceivable by modern civilized standards. The Hebrews were actually remarkably restrained.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:08 pm
What your buddies did only last century was stark barbarian insanity.
And that we can judge by the standards of today.
Religion hasn’t even come close to the frenzied brutality of political atheist ideologues, there is simply no more efficient or more murderous way to kill people than with political ideology driven by those that claim to be secular progressives.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:09 pm
“every culture on earth conducted itself with a brutality that is inconceivable by modern civilized standards.”
Yes that is true, except there is one group who demonstrated similar brutality in modern times and that is the secularists of progressivism.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:18 pm
Oh really? The crusades escape your attention then?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:21 pm
The Crusades?
Hahahha..
The 12th century????
Fuck you
Vote:peopleatheists are soooo thick.March 18th, 2013 at 10:22 pm
Sit down lad ! Uncle Kea is going to tell you a few things.
Those people died in the name of socialism not secularism or atheism. Jesus and Joseph doggy styled Mary, do I have to explain this to YOU Red. Idiot.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:24 pm
Redbaiter, brutality isn’t limited to the secular realm. At one time the Hebrews would sacrifice their children by burning them alive, and Cathars were burned alive by other Christians for refusing to renounce their faith. More recently ritual torture of children by Christians has been reported in Canada.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:26 pm
Lucia Maria, good to hear your bible knowledge is improving. However, Jesus made it very very crystal clear many many times, that his word did not overturn what had been written before and he had only came to enforce the old testament.
Why am I constantly having to teach you Christians about your own holy book !
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:28 pm
Vote:
March 18th, 2013 at 10:28 pm
shunda, accusing the Canaanites of child sacrifice (like Isaac being offered up?) is grounds for killing Canaanites to the last man, woman and child?
Is that collective punishment for collective guilt?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:30 pm
If secularists are collectively guilty for what fascists and communists have done, are Christians collectively guilty of the actions of religious jihadists who bomb civilians?
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:32 pm
“Those people died in the name of socialism”
You sad fuckwit. Socialism is a totalitarian system that cannot exist within a field of competing ideas, (of which Christianity is ony one example) which is why you and so many other dumb indoctrinated suckers are so obsessively engaged in a daily war against Christianity.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:40 pm
Red, you have a flimsy and poorly thought out philosophical base.
By being the bitch boy of religion, you are defending a following that has a history of intolerance and brutality that exceeds socialism. Religion has also been used to socially engineer society to a far greater extent than progressive thought has.
I do not like socialism because it does not work. I am an atheist because there is no God. Both have a falsehood as a base. You seem unconcerned about truth or reality.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:43 pm
SPC, the curse of the Canaanites goes back to Noah.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:44 pm
“I am an atheist because there is no God.”
I do not give a fuck what you are. My belief is you’re just a brain damaged idiot. Mainly (that is leaving aside your insanely incorrect allegations) because you can’t see that in your obsessive efforts to extinguish Christianity, rather than allow them to live as you allow others to live, you are doing just what the socialists want you to do.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:46 pm
Kea, one person claims there is a God and another person claims there is not a God, but neither know this.
More credible is the idea that the knowledge of men about God is unreliable.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 10:59 pm
Ugly Truth,
The flood story is inconsistent with the facts of history. DNA evidence shows migration out of Africa around the world and that the bible dating of a worldwide repopulation from one male line after a flood is myth.
Even if one concluded some of the sons of Noah were sons in law, there is no evidence of any break in Chinese, Mesopotamian or Egyptian history to allow for a flood.
All that story said was that Ham was a son of Noah and Ham was the father of Canaan. It’s my opinion Ham was married to Noah’s daughter (thus the nakedness) and Canaan was son of Ham via an earlier wife – thus the family of Noah had an issue with Canaan.
IMO the purpose of the story was to relate the 10 generations from Adam to Noah with continuing Godfaith – 10 Commandments being the original law/Godfaith and the mortality of human life unto old age.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 11:13 pm
Kea,
Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets, not enforce. Slight change of emphasis that makes all the difference.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 12:30 am
By being the bitch boy of religion, you are defending a following that has a history of intolerance and brutality that exceeds socialism. Religion has also been used to socially engineer society to a far greater extent than progressive thought has.
Until you said this I actually had some interest in debating your points.
But when you display this fundamental ignorance of world history it becomes apparent that this is just a complete waste of time.
Here are some facts for you Kea, and these are irrefutable facts of human history.
The political regimes of the 20th century alone (Stalin, Mao, Hitler etc) killed more people in one century than ALL religions killed in all of known history
Vote:This is called a fact, Kea, it isn’t made up, it is actually what happened.
And not only did these regimes exceed the brutality of religion, they far exceeded the brutality of religion
March 19th, 2013 at 12:53 am
Oh really? The crusades escape your attention then?
Nope.
But they were a drop in the bucket compared to atheist tyrants. Actually, a fraction of a drop in a bucket.
The Crusades (that’s all of them) killed about 1 million people.
However:
Marxist China killed: 77,277,000
Soviet Russia killed: 61,911,00
Nazi Germany killed: 20,946,00
The Crusades were but a school yard scrap in comparison.
To put the horror of the 20th century further into comparison, lets compare it to the bloodiest battle in world history which occurred in Roman times.
80 000 people were killed in a single day.
But the 20th century deaths due to war and genocide? well this is equal to 82 000 people being killed every single day, 365 days a year FOR 10 YEARS.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:31 am
Hitler was a Catholic who drew from Luther’s Judenhass.
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”
Vote:http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch02.html
March 19th, 2013 at 6:38 am
Shunda barunda ,
“Marxist China killed: 77,277,000
Soviet Russia killed: 61,911,00
Nazi Germany killed: 20,946,00″
Some of the figures are a little conservative, but lets accept them. All those things were done in the name of socialism, not atheism. There was not a religious element to it, except for Hitler.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 6:43 am
SPC, the same can be said of the Tooth Fairy, Unicorns and any other mythical thing we can dream up. For debating purposes I state my position more clearly than that. I do not believe in God. Others, who do believe, will then challenge that position.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 7:17 am
Daddy must be one sick fuck if he started imagining his son sucking cock at age six.
There are no sexual six year olds – unless they have been molested or otherwise exposed to sexuality. It’s simply not possible.
If he was trying to say that he thought his son was effeminate at six years old, that’s not quite as bad, but it’s still freaking weird. It also has nothing to do with sexuality. There are plenty of effeminate straight men out there, and plenty of very rough Tom-of-Finland gay guys.
I suspect the fellow failed in his basic duty of teaching his son how to act and behave like a man. He probably just figured his son was gay at six, and gave up on him. Utterly disgraceful.
Children cannot be gay, and I continue to be amazed at people who ignore this basic logical fact.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 7:55 am
“But they were a drop in the bucket compared to atheist tyrants. Actually, a fraction of a drop in a bucket.”
Neither Mao, Stalin or Hitler believed in unicorns.
All three committed crimes against humanity.
Therefore disbelief in unicorns leads to crimes against humanity.
Brilliant logic, Shunda.
Absence of belief in something cannot, by definition, be a cause and motivation of anything.
Does your (presumed) disbelief in leprechauns compel you to kill people?
What you are doing is simply trying to muddy the water and throw around smears, since belief in magic pixies clearly can and has led directly to endless atrocities throughout history.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 7:56 am
Oh, BlairM.
So much hatred.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 9:03 am
The hatred is from the your side who what to change the issue to Christianity and go out of your way to offend Christians.
This just more homosexual propaganda using what likely a fake letter.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 10:17 am
Neither Mao, Stalin or Hitler believed in unicorns.
All three committed crimes against humanity.
Therefore disbelief in unicorns leads to crimes against humanity.
Are you friggin kidding?
Brilliant logic, Shunda.
Absence of belief in something cannot, by definition, be a cause and motivation of anything.
Does your (presumed) disbelief in leprechauns compel you to kill people?
If an individuals disbelief in leprechauns formed the core of their world view in the way atheism formed the core of Stalin’s then who knows what could happen. People with pots of gold could start mysteriously disappearing all over the place.
What you are doing is simply trying to muddy the water and throw around smears, since belief in magic pixies clearly can and has led directly to endless atrocities throughout history.
What you are doing is having your judgement clouded by your pathological hatred of religion and the religious.
This is called a scapegoating mentality, all the worlds problems are blamed on a single group while the most barbaric brutality the world has ever known is astonishingly ignored or causally explained away.
Scapegoating has lead to the deaths of multiple millions throughout history, another fact you may want to consider.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 10:24 am
Shunda barunda, how do you think Hitlers belief in God (and support of the church) shaped his actions ?
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 10:29 am
Shunda barunda, how do you think Hitlers belief in God (and support of the church) shaped his actions ?
I’m not sure, but I know for certain that captain Richard Winters belief in God was what made him (and the men he led) such a force to be reckoned with when they took Hitlers army down.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 10:43 am
I think you will find that the atheist communists of Russia were a bigger factor.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 10:46 am
Shunda,
“If an individuals disbelief in leprechauns formed the core of their world view in the way atheism formed the core of Stalin’s then who knows what could happen.”
A disbelief in something cannot, by definition, provide any constructive impulse to act, for good or for bad.
A rational belief that leprechauns, unicorns and magic pixies don’t exist logically leads to precisely nothing.
The most you can argue is that Stalin and his kind were unconstrained by a religious moral code. However, since history is full of barbarities committed by Christians and Muslims and the rest, that argument is obviously worthless.
Try a bit of logical thought instead of trying to comfort yourself by chucking around irrational smears, eh?
Chuck,
“The hatred is from the your side who what to change the issue to Christianity and go out of your way to offend Christians. ”
The subject of Christianity arises inevitably because it is used here by bigots to try to justify their position.
I realise I offend these fake Christians when I point out their hypocrisies and double-standards, and decline to bowdlerise the Bible and twist scripture the way they do.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 10:52 am
I know for certain that Thomas More’s belief in God was what made him burn heretics at the stake.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 11:02 am
It can be said that atheists and theists both do good and bad. However, atheists do not do bad in the name of atheism. Christians can, do and have done bad in the name of their God. Atheism is not a belief system, any more than not collecting tea spoons is a hobby or not playing Golf a sport.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 11:34 am
@Kea
Vote:Bill Maher’s (think it’s him) version is cute – Atheism is a religion like abstinence is a sex position.
March 19th, 2013 at 1:27 pm
“Atheism is not a belief system”
You painfully stupid prick. Atheism is a core component of Marxism. Or communism, where there is only one decider of what is right and wrong and that is the Central Committee. For the purposes of solidarity, any dissenting groups who might offer alternatives must be destroyed.
BTW, when you say “There is no God”, then knowing that with such certainty you will be no doubt able to explain in a couple of sentences the origin of the star system Sirius.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 1:42 pm
Red, whether atheism is a core component of Marxism or communism has no bearing on whether atheism is a belief system or not. Even if all Marxists and communists must be atheists the reverse isn’t true, some atheists will be Marxists or comminists but many will not, there are a lot more atheists than Marxists and communists.
And there is a fundamental difference – Marxism and communism are discredited and fading political ideologies while atheism is a growing realisation that gods are not real beyond being human created beliefs – which is back to the default historical an infant absence of theist beliefs.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 1:43 pm
Atheism is not a belief system, any more than not collecting tea spoons is a hobby or not playing Golf a sport.
Oh you hopeless idealist.
Perhaps in our imperfect world an individuals ability to adhere to the purity of an ideological position is sometimes corrupted by the fact that THEY’RE NOT PERFECT.
Bloody hell, you guys shift around the goals posts so much that it’s impossible to keep up.
Here’s how I know for a fact that your atheism is religious, BECAUSE YOU ARGUE WITH PEOPLE THAT AREN’T ATHEISTS.
For your perspective to be correct, you shouldn’t even be here!
Your lack of belief drives you to confront those that do believe, which makes you no damned different.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 1:43 pm
You can see a Halfwat Dabney clone if you go to this link
http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/txt/s3687812.htm
and once there, click on the link on the RHS entitled Krauss On Nothing 30:04
Its a Australian Broadcasting Corporation Q + A session where a Woody Allen style atheist (Krauss) tries to justify his opinions.
If you want you can watch the link before that entitled Krauss On Nothing 27:15 but the one that really shows the helpless meaningless bluster of the atheists is the first few minutes of the 30:04 video.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 1:44 pm
I’m not sure, but I know for certain that captain Richard Winters belief in God was what made him (and the men he led) such a force to be reckoned with when they took Hitlers army down.
1. No shortage of Christians in the Wehrmacht – doesn’t seem to have helped them much.
Vote:2. The US only ever fought a very small proportion of Hitler’s armies – as Kea points out, most of said armies were beaten by the atheist commos.
3. Capt. Winters owed a shitload more to 100% air superiority, an overwhelming firepower advantage and his enemies’ fuel/ammo shortages than he could even conceivably have owed to a figment of his imagination.
March 19th, 2013 at 1:51 pm
I’m not surprised a would-be autocrat such as baitey favours the official religion model, where all other beliefs (“belief systems”) must be ridiculed & suppressed as dangerous, treasonous, or etc.
Tell me all about FREEDOM weddy!
Vote:Freedom under redbaiter’s authoritarian rule…
March 19th, 2013 at 1:53 pm
1. No shortage of Christians in the Wehrmacht – doesn’t seem to have helped them much.
So it wasn’t a holy war after all?
2. The US only ever fought a very small proportion of Hitler’s armies – as Kea points out, most of said armies were beaten by the atheist commos.
Right, nothing noteworthy happened on the western front, gottcha.
3. Capt. Winters owed a shitload more to 100% air superiority, an overwhelming firepower advantage and his enemies’ fuel/ammo shortages than he could even conceivably have owed to a figment of his imagination.
You obviously haven’t read his book.
You chaps hold a belief system that I strongly believe will bring about the next great global tyranny, and no doubt, great Christian men like Dick Winters will once again be forced into combat through the arrogance and ignorance of others.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 1:56 pm
Transcript from link above-
HAROLD JANSON: Yeah. So if you’re claiming that the universe came from nothing and nothing isn’t really nothing, where did the nothing come from?
LAWRENCE KRAUSS: No, well, look, you know, the interesting thing is science…
HAROLD JANSON: And can I add: where did the laws of physics come?
LAWRENCE KRAUSS: I didn’t say it’s nothing. I actually think the point is science changes what we mean by words. So, you know, I’ve discussed with philosophers and they say, “You know what, we don’t like your definition of nothing because it is not what Aristotle described”. Well, the point is science changes the meaning of things. It’s called learning and you may have said that nothing was an infinite empty void like the Bible would have said. Well, that would be empty space, okay? We’ve learned that that kind of nothing is much more complicated than you thought. There’s nothing in it. There’s no real particles but it actually has properties but the point is that you can go much further and say there’s no space, no time, no universe and not even any fundamental laws and it could all spontaneously arise and it seems to me if you have no laws, no space, no time, no particles, no radiation, it is a pretty good approximation of nothing.
TONY JONES: But Harold actually asked the question I think you were saying did the laws of physics equally spring from nothing? Fully formed into existence from nothing?
LAWRENCE KRAUSS: Well, what is surprising is that the conventional wisdom right now, which could be wrong and that’s the other nice thing about science. We don’t mind being wrong and changing our minds, unlike religion. But is that, in fact, because of discovering that empty space has energy, it seems quite plausible that our universe may be just one universe in what could be almost an infinite number of universes and in every universe the laws of physics are different and they come into existence when the universe comes into existence. So our laws of physics – physics may become, God forbid – forgive me for saying hat – but just environmental science.
TONY JONES: Could some of those universes have gods creating them?
LAWRENCE KRAUSS: No. Because – no. Because the point is that, you know, when people say, you know, you need a God to create a universe, you need intelligence to create a universe, then the key question, of course, is: well if God is more complex than the universe then how could God come into existence? And so…
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:00 pm
This thread is supposed to be about a letter a father allegedly sent to his son.
There are lot of people who are not Christian who believe the interest of children should come ahead of homosexuals.
There are also a lot of non Christians who believe further normalisation of all thing homosexual will make adolescents be they a little under of over 16 more vulnerable to sexual predators like the former Labour MP who stayed at King’s house.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:00 pm
“all other beliefs (“belief systems”) must be ridiculed & suppressed as dangerous, treasonous,”
You see, this is why you are IMHO nothing but a smug cowardly troll. I do not think anything of the sort and have never ever written anything to imply I thought that.
Your completely untrue claim is just the usual worthless cowardly smear that typifies your debating tactic and makes even scorn too worthy a response.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:09 pm
Red is right.
And it has been known for a very long time that atheism is no longer an intellectually honest position, but a belief system. Arguing it is ‘non belief’ is entirely irrelevant, it is being used as a belief system to build a world view, and that is all that matters from an intellectually honest perspective.
What we know about the known universe and the reality within makes this an inescapable fact.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:18 pm
Shunda barunda , you are an atheist about most of the thousands of Gods ever invented. The only difference between you and me is that I believe in one less God than you.
It also raises the question, why is non-belief in YOUR God atheisim and non-belief in other Gods not atheisim ? The choices are not atheisim or belief in your God.
Once again, not believing in something is not a belief system.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:19 pm
When you look at the work of these atheist ‘progressives’ it sends a chill down the spine, particularly those that wander into philosophy like Sam Harris.
This guy has come up with a philosophy that is so inextricably evil that all other destructive philosophies will pale into insignificance.
And what does his developing philosophy lead to? the justification for the execution of human beings for believing certain things.
These people are as dangerous as the eugenicists and political ideologues of the early 20th century and then some, they are creating the intellectual excuse for tyranny that ALWAYS precedes great acts of evil.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:20 pm
Redbaiter, you have become a snivelling bitch boy for our resident Christians and I tire of your antics. Pick a side you wimp.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:22 pm
Fortunately however, Chutneychutebaiter_but curioustooguy had some time on his hands and was able to deliver his compelling riposte.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:25 pm
Redbaiter 2:00pm:
Redbaiter 1:27pm:
Obvious dishonesty is obvious
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
Shunda barunda , you are an atheist about most of the thousands of Gods ever invented. The only difference between you and me is that I believe in one less God than you.
That’s the most worn out cliche from the ole atheists handbook.
It also raises the question, why is non-belief in YOUR God atheisim and non-belief in other Gods not atheisim ? The choices are not atheisim or belief in your God.
Christianity is the only religion that fits with what we know about the known universe. Reincarnation is out, that is for damned sure.
You also don’t actually know what I believe because I haven’t told you.
Once again, not believing in something is not a belief system.
Unless you use it as one!
A fork is not a shovel, unless you use it as one!
You can claim it is still a fork all you like, (and technically it is) but if you’re using it as a shovel, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES IT IS A SHOVEL.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:32 pm
Squawk’s hero has feet of clay.
Vote:Red baiter is an agnostic
He hangs with the conservative Christians because that’s as close as you can get to his form of madness
Don’t ya love diversity. Even amongst wing nuts there is differences.
March 19th, 2013 at 2:34 pm
“Redbaiter, you have become a snivelling bitch boy for our resident Christians and I tire of your antics.”
I have already picked a side moron. I regard the atheists that frequent this blog as brain damaged losers, and I am on the side of the Christians.
Why you needed that pointed out I do not know.
And that you may be tired of me concerns me not one iota.
I am against the socialists/ progressives and any/ all of their allies.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:36 pm
It sure is. An oldy but a goody. Do you want to be the first to answer it convincingly ?
The arrogance (and ignorance) of that statement is so self evident I can add nothing further to undermine your position.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:37 pm
He hangs with the conservative Christians because that’s as close as you can get to his form of madness
Just like certain supposed libertarians hang out with social progressive left wing nutters?
Don’t ya love diversity. Even amongst wing nuts there is differences.
You said it.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:39 pm
“Obvious dishonesty is obvious”
That you think the juxtapositioning of those two sentences somehow proves your allegation that I believe “all other belief systems should be oppressed” is just another sign of how intellectually crippled your kind of Progressive scum always are.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:39 pm
“Christianity is the only religion that fits with what we know about the known universe”
Huh? As it stands, that comment is just bizarre.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:41 pm
Red, you are a totalitarian who has far more in common with socialist dictators than true right wingers.
Now you expect us to bow down to a Christian God we do not believe in, even though you are not Christian yourself. There goes the last of your credibility you silly little bitch.
You are promoting ideology over reason. The very thing done by various socialists.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:42 pm
I can add nothing further to undermine your position.
The arrogance (and ignorance) of that statement is so self evident….
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:45 pm
“Red, you are a totalitarian who has far more in common with socialist dictators than true right wingers.”
A totally false allegation.
“Now you expect us to bow down to a Christian God we do not believe in”
A complete and utter lie.
“There goes the last of your credibility you silly little bitch.”
How you regard my credibility is of no concern to me. Freedom needs intolerant lying bigots like you like it needs another Barack Obama.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:45 pm
There goes the last of your credibility you silly little bitch.
I think Kea’s getting rattled, she’s getting meaner and meaner with every passing post…..
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:49 pm
“I think Kea’s getting rattled, she’s getting meaner and meaner with every passing post…..”
Most progressives are very narrow minded, and therefore it does not take long to get to the borders of their tolerance.
Notice that although he is adamant there is no God, being privy to that special knowledge does not allow him to tell me where the star system Sirius came from.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:52 pm
Huh? As it stands, that comment is just bizarre.
There is nothing bizarre about it, the major doctrines of Christianity, (rejecting fringe young earthers) are completely compatible with scientific reality.
You either accept something is on the other side of the big bang or you don’t, faith is required either way.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 2:57 pm
@Shundra b
Vote:I thought that the resurrection of a long dead corpse was the most significant event in christianity. Please explain how that is compatible with scientific reality.
March 19th, 2013 at 2:59 pm
ROFTL.
What nonsense.
Science and reason has been beating religion (incl. Christianity) back into the gaps.
Best you can hope for now is some non-specific, non-personal deity that lives in the gaps of scientific knowledge, ever on the retreat as our knowledge expands.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:08 pm
Science and reason has been beating religion (incl. Christianity) back into the gaps.
This only true for morons that whet their intellectual appetite on the popular bleatings of people like Richard Dawkins.
The truth of the matter is different however.
Christianity is in a more favorable position with TRUE science than it has been for decades, the philosophical implications of big bang cosmology are absolutely massive, and growing more massive every year. Our reality is NOT what atheists (who strongly rallied against big bang cosmology) had hoped for, but have to now reluctantly accept.
Many honest scientists have actually renounced their atheism in favor of the intellectually more tenable agnosticism.
That you chaps don’t know any of this reveals the truth (and fragility) of your position.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:15 pm
Red, I do not need to provide an explanation for where stars, or anything else, comes from. Nor have I offered one. This has nothing to do with religion or God. It is the same deal with evolution. It does not prove, or disprove, the existance of God.
And it is laugable that a totalitarian intolerant promoter of fairy stories would pretend to inform me about issues of “freedom”. Returning to the topic of this thread, how do you feel about the “freedom” to be gay ?
We have a fundamental difference of opinion. You think the state should be able to dictate to the people on matters of morality, God, sexuality, and rather a lot else. I think the state has no business interfering with our lives in this way.
Your full of shit Red and have become an hysterical little totalitarian bitch.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:22 pm
This is right up there with “climate scientists” (weathermen) promoting AGW. In this case we have “creation scientists” (Christians) promoting God.
Say Hi to Griff
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:23 pm
“It does not prove, or disprove, the existance of God.”
But you wrote above that “God does not exist”. You wrote that as a definitive statement and you wrote it with utter surety. I am merely asking what it is that makes you sure, and you reply by saying the above. That there is no proof. So your statement that there is no God, (as Shundra has already pointed out) is just a very firm apparently almost religious belief.
What standard of rational discussion are you working to?
I’ll tell you- progressive standards.
“I think the state has no business interfering with our lives in this way.”
Yet you enthusiastically support the actions of two extreme left wing members of parliament in using the power of big government to redefine the age old tradition of marriage.
What standard of rational discussion are you working to here?
I’ll tell you again- progressive standards.
BTW, don’t tell me what I think. As if a two bit knuckle dragger like you full of mainstream media progressive shit would ever have a clue on that.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:26 pm
“BTW, when you say “There is no God”, then knowing that with such certainty you will be no doubt able to explain in a couple of sentences the origin of the star system Sirius.”
An example of Redbaiter’s brilliant logic.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:30 pm
Fixed
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:30 pm
“When stumped by unassailable logic, always attempt ridicule”
Communist Party instruction, Moscow 1943.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:32 pm
If I have to make a call, I say “there is no God”. Of course we can not say for certain. Same goes for the Tooth Fairy and any other crap you care to dream up. Show me the evidence ? If you do not have that evidence, then what do you base your ideas on ?
You mean things like marrying 11 year olds off for dowry and treating women as property ? Or do you mean the “Christian” marriage practise of stoning non-virginal brides to death on their fathers doorstep.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:35 pm
“If you do not have that evidence, then what do you base your ideas on ?”
If you do not understand agnosticism then you need to fuck off and read about it before engaging in these kind of debates you ignorant time wasting moron.
“You mean things like marrying 11 year olds off for dowry and treating women as property ? Or do you mean the “Christian” marriage practise of stoning non-virginal brides to death on their fathers doorstep.”
Oh, and these are existing problems that will be fixed by means of big powerful government redefining marriage into a mockery of what it really is??
Fuck off you ranting idiot.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:36 pm
“unassailable logic”
Please stop. I beg of you.
The sight of a grown man committing logical fallacies a 10 year old would laugh at is just too excruciating.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:37 pm
This is right up there with “climate scientists” (weathermen) promoting AGW. In this case we have “creation scientists” (Christians) promoting God.
I never referenced “creation scientists” at all, I find such a term ridiculous and intellectually offensive.
No, I am talking about scientific consensus on big bang cosmology and the philosophical implications that you clearly didn’t even know about.
If you weren’t such an intellectual lightweight we could even have a chat about it, but as it stands you seem more interested in foaming at the mouth.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:42 pm
Wow
This thread is going really well!
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:42 pm
“When stumped by unassailable logic, always attempt ridicule”
Communist Party instruction, Moscow 1943.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:43 pm
wow, more nonsense.
Firstly, you don’t renounce atheism. It is not a religion or a faith, but the lack thereof.
Secondly, a majority of the scientists are without religion i.e atheists, no matter how you slice and dice it. And it is science that led them to abandon their faith as it was incompatible with science.
Thirdly, all major scientific fields contradict and debunk whatever “scientific” claims are made by religion, in specific Christianity. Genesis, Adam and Eve, Noah’s Flood. Jesus’ resurrection, etc. etc. etc. All these have proven (proven!) to be nothing but myths of the people that lived 2000 years ago.
LOL, highly ironic given the nonsense that you claim here
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:53 pm
LOL, highly ironic given the nonsense that you claim here
Tell me (as you clearly see yourself having a superior intellect) about the philosophical implications of big bang cosmology and how you reconcile that with being an atheist.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 3:59 pm
Messers Red & Shunda, I am still waiting for that evidence ?
Either front up or shut up.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:05 pm
Red, you stupid whining bitch ! It is not for government to define marriage. How do you think Klark would have defined marriage ?
Go cry in the lap of your totalitarian desert cult following brothers. You are not part of the right, as much as you pretend to be.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:07 pm
“I am still waiting for that evidence ?”
What evidence?
You sad dimwitted clown, you don’t even know what you are talking about, you can’t read and you can’t absorb information and you can’t think.
Tell me, what evidence do I need to take an agnostic position?
You are the one who needs evidence, as you stated firmly above “THERE IS NO GOD”.
So back it up or STFU you time wasting bigot.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:10 pm
“It is not for government to define marriage.”
So why are you cheering for the marriage redefinition bill??
FFS you are one amazing dumbarse.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:12 pm
“what evidence do I need to take an agnostic position?”
You are agnostic about the Easter Bunny?
You are agnostic about Father Christmas?
You are agnostic about Zeus?
Ra?
Thor?
Allah?
The Flying Spaghetti Monster?
You are on the fence about all of them?
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:13 pm
There we have it folks. “What evidence?”
Red, you are the one attacking people for opposing a belief in something for which there is no evidence. We are not being controled by progressive thought, but by logic. You may want to have a try at doing the same.
It is about believing in what is real and respecting the truth. It is not a political position to oppose religion.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:17 pm
“When stumped by unassailable logic, always attempt ridicule”
Communist Party instruction, Moscow 1943.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:18 pm
1. It is not a function of government to define marriage.
2. It is no body elses business, beyond the married couple.
3. I do not care what homos are doing with other homos.
4. I believe in personal liberty and personal responsibility.
Why do you oppose it ?
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:20 pm
Red, are you ok buddy?
Your stuttering like a spastic
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:21 pm
“Red, you are the one attacking people for opposing a belief in something for which there is no evidence.”
I am not attacking you for being an atheist.
I am perhaps criticising you for being a ranting idiot, and your sick insane hatred of and intolerance for other beliefs, and you with your crippled comprehension skills apparently think I am attacking you for being an atheist, but I am not.
I don’t care if you want to be an atheist. Go for it.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:24 pm
Yes, you have already said that.
So again, why are you supporting a big government push, underpinned by deceit and propaganda, and with pages and pages of new regulations, and driven by two of the most extreme left politicians in our parliament, to do exactly that?
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:26 pm
Like your “sick insane hatred of and intolerance ” of Islam ?
I am very tolerant towards believers, including Muslims. But your not a believer. You try and paint the promotion of logic and reason as a leftist plot. It is not.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:29 pm
It’s time for a Fulton Sheen quote, from his book, Peace of the Soul:
No point getting angry if the Easter Bunny, Father Christmas, Zeus, etc are mentioned, because everyone knows they are not real. But God? Mentioning God and the Christian faith makes atheists angry. Interesting, huh?
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:31 pm
Red, what I think personally of gay marriage is not important. It is none of my business. The fact that the “left” are promoting this is irrelevant. I judge each case on its merits, not on the politics of the people promoting it. Even the hideous Klark did something I agreed with. Once.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:31 pm
“Like your “sick insane hatred of and intolerance ” of Islam ?”
I don’t have a sick insane intolerance of Islam. But nice of you to admit your own guilt in respect of Christianity. (for once)
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:32 pm
“Red, what I think personally of gay marriage is not important. It is none of my business.”
Good, well just STFU about it then.
“The fact that the “left” are promoting this is irrelevant.”
Wrong
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:33 pm
Prove it ?
Why are you an atheist about Zeus ?
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:34 pm
Red, why do you require Central Government to tell you who you can marry ?
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:38 pm
Why am I atheist about Zeus? Because I know he’s a myth made up by the Greeks to explain the divine. Unfortunately when human beings make up gods, they give them the same attributes a typical flawed human being has and they just add power. So, obviously Zeus does not exist.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:38 pm
“Red, why do you require Central Government to tell you who you can marry ?”
Fuck off and marry your sister then.
You’re just a time wasting fool.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:39 pm
Kea to reddy
When is a wingnut a wingnut. When he thinks its ok for him to use wingnut logic but gets upset when confronted by the same thought pattern in others.
So many nutters so much fun
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:43 pm
“So many nutters so much fun”
“When stumped by unassailable logic, always attempt ridicule”
Communist Party instruction, Moscow 1943.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:44 pm
A bit scary to think someone so delusional can rise to a position of influence in the church though…
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:45 pm
“LOL – that’s the biggest load of crap I’ve read for ages! Hilarious, thanks for posting. Please post up more!”
“When stumped by unassailable logic, always attempt ridicule”
Communist Party instruction, Moscow 1943.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:47 pm
~ Boilerplate, 2013
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:47 pm
Lucia,
“No point getting angry if the Easter Bunny, Father Christmas, Zeus, etc are mentioned, because everyone knows they are not real. But God? Mentioning God and the Christian faith makes atheists angry. Interesting, huh?”
Firstly, Zeus is a god just as much as Yahweh and Thor are gods. So your premise is clearly false. You are essentially begging the question.
Secondly, are you saying that Allah exists? I’ve seen atheists angry at Islam plenty of times. According to your “logic” this signifies that the Muslim faith is true. Interesting, huh?
And finally, atheists don’t care which of the many hundreds of belief systems you choose to follow. It’s entirely your own business. Different pixies, different silly customs. You can choose a different god or gods every day of the week. Knock yourself out.
Vote:The problem you describe is not what a Muslim believes and subjects himself to, it’s what he tries to force on everyone else. And the same goes for Christians, Hindus, whatever.
March 19th, 2013 at 4:50 pm
Yes I agree. The Christian God is a great example of that. (jealous, vengeful, angry ….all right there in the bible)
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:51 pm
“The problem you describe is not what a Muslim believes and subjects himself to, it’s what he tries to force on everyone else.”
As you and you’re Progressive friends are doing by using the force of big government, led by two extreme left commies, and pages of fresh legislation, and a sleazy Select Committee process, and rushing it through parliament in unseemly haste, to redefine the traditional institution of marriage.
What was that about logic and ten year olds?
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:53 pm
Oh….. so you need the Government to keep you off your sister Red. Now I see !!!
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:56 pm
I love KB
I have Red calling me a progressive commie and Griff calling me a wingnut conspirawacy right wing conservative.
Both form their delusions without evidence.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:56 pm
“When stumped by unassailable logic, always attempt ridicule”
Communist Party instruction, Moscow 1943.
That Grief, he’s always right about everything isn’t he?
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:56 pm
Red,
And force is used where, exactly?
Is the state going to force you to marry someone you don’t want to?
Clearly not.
Nothing is being forced on anyone by this change.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:58 pm
“When stumped by unassailable logic, always attempt ridicule”
Communist Party instruction, Moscow 1943.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 4:59 pm
Wrong again dimbulb.
Do you think people might ever get a bit tired of dealing with your non-existent comprehension skills.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:01 pm
“When stumped by unassailable logic, always attempt ridicule”
By the way, Red. Generally speaking, putting your hands over your ears, closing your eyes and shouting “lalalalalalala” is not considered a valid debating technique. Not once you’re out of nappies that is.
For people in big boys’ pants it is correctly taken as evidence that you are conceding the argument.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:02 pm
Hahahha- that’s that superior logic again right Halfwat?
Everyone is all upset over nuttin because the gummint ain’t doin nuttin.
Its just puttin things right for us poor ignorant people again.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:02 pm
Kea – I must say, your style has got a lot better since I blocked your posts after that time you called me a mass-murdering communist
I like your work here dude.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:02 pm
“When stumped by unassailable logic, always attempt ridicule”
Communist Party instruction, Moscow 1943.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:04 pm
I am not the one posting smug argument free attempts at ridicule.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:05 pm
“I like your work here dude.”
Of course you like his work. What commie wouldn’t?
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:13 pm
“Everyone is all upset over nuttin because the gummint ain’t doin nuttin. Its just puttin things right for us poor ignorant people again.”
Er, Red. You do realise you didn’t refute anything with this?
Starting to look a bit desperate there mate.
Try the hands over the ears thing again, eh? Get back a bit of credibility.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:13 pm
RRM, maybe we got off on the wrong foot.
Now I must get back to promoting compulsory sodomy, communism, God hating, the destruction of marriage and a raft of other social ills !
Pssst dont tell Red I am not a commie, it would spoil everything.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:32 pm
Right… that’s why He let human beings kill him.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:35 pm
Lucia Maria, I am not sure what point your making there, but you have stated rather clearly that God is dead ?
So are you an atheist now ?
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:43 pm
I have been an atheist, Kea. It’s not for me.
No, I am not saying that God is dead, but you’ve just basically shown that while you have knowledge of some stuff in the Bible, you don’t actually understand it. God’s human body died on the Cross and then after three days, He resurrected His body and came back to life.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:44 pm
We Will Fight the Atheistic Movement
We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.
- Adolf Hitler, Speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:47 pm
Lucia has clearly explained that Zeus is a myth created by men in an attempt to explain the divine.
Lucia’s own god is nothing at all like that.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:49 pm
Lucia, I gave a million dollars to the poor. Then after three days I took it back again.
What a great guy I am. So giving, so kind, so full of grace.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:54 pm
Where has Red got to ? He is not off with his sister again is he ? (Red @ 4:38)
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:55 pm
I doubt you let yourself be beaten up, whipped so that your skin hung like rags, and let yourself be nailed through the hands and feet until all your blood drained out.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 5:58 pm
“When confronted with bum sex always make the rules up as you go”
Chutneychutebaiter_butstillcurious, Tauranga 2013.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 6:00 pm
She’s got you there Kea….no one ever needed a blood transfusion after a visit to Madam Lash’s House of Pain.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 6:00 pm
Red has done the sensible thing. As I will.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 6:02 pm
We Will Fight the Atheistic Movement
We were convinced that the people need and require this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.
- Adolf Hitler, Speech in Berlin, October 24, 1933
He also ordered the production of the Volkswagen Beetle, the most successful car ever made, so I guess he had some good ideas.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 6:07 pm
Ducked off to change his incontinence pads I think. His U turn on the role of Government and all that bum sex imagery has come at a cost.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 6:12 pm
Last word: Adolf Hitler quotes showing what he really thought of Christianity.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 6:14 pm
Dont stop kea reddy
Vote:That was sooooooo funny
Two right wing nuts having a lovers spat
seems only one can label all he does not believe in a commie plot.
March 19th, 2013 at 6:16 pm
Adolf Hitler: Decline of Christianity in Europe is Dangerous
While both denominations maintain missions in Asia and Africa in order to win new followers for their doctrine — an activity which can boast but very modest success compared to the advance of the Mohammedan faith in particular — right here in Europe they lose millions and millions of inward adherents who either are alien to all religious life or simply go their own ways. The consequences, particularly from a moral point of view, are not favorable.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, Vol. 1 Chapter 10
Adolf Hitler: Christian Missionaries Should Look to Europe
It would be more in keeping with the intention of the noblest man in this world if our two Christian churches, instead of annoying Negroes with missions which they neither desire nor understand, would kindly, but in all seriousness, teach our European humanity that where parents are not healthy it is a deed pleasing to God to take pity on a poor little healthy orphan child and give him father and mother, than themselves to give birth to a sick child who will only bring unhappiness and suffering on himself and the rest of the world.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 2
8. Adolf Hitler: Burn out the Poison of Immorality
Today Christians … stand at the head of [this country]… I pledge that I never will tie myself to parties who want to destroy Christianity .. We want to fill our culture again with the Christian spirit … We want to burn out all the recent immoral developments in literature, in the theater, and in the press – in short, we want to burn out the poison of immorality which has entered into our whole life and culture as a result of liberal excess during the past … (few) years.
- Adolf Hitler, quoted in: The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, 1922-1939, Vol. 1 (London, Oxford University Press, 1942), pg. 871-872
Greatness of Religious Fanaticism & Intolerance
The greatness of every mighty organization embodying an idea in this world lies in the religious fanaticism and intolerance with which, fanatically convinced of its own right, it intolerantly imposes its will against all others.
- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 1 Chapter 12
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 6:22 pm
Hay Griff, this is not a thread about climate change, which is not a political position anyway, at least for me its not. Can you give me a few examples to show my right wing nuttyness on this thread ?
I notice you have nothing of substance to say when your not cut and pasting off of some alarmist web site.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 6:25 pm
So Kea, you have posted evidence that Hitler wanted to use Christianity to combat Islam and communism, in other words, for his own political motives.
So what’s your point?
Or do you not think that what was recorded in history next makes it obvious that he was an exploitative sociopath using anything and everything to get his way?
You appear to be an extremely blinkered individual.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 6:30 pm
Actually it is a political position kea
No matter the evidence its all a commie plot.
Vote:you may have toned down from your early attempts to label climate science a commie plot.
You still insist on calling science a hoax based on no more than anti since blog sites.
You belief in the hoax of climate science is very much a wingnut conspiracy driven political rubbish.
You your self have said no matter what happens with temperatures or the weather you will not except global warming as valid science. Wingnut thinking
March 19th, 2013 at 6:58 pm
Meh..attention whore Stringer and his 404 links.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 7:08 pm
And there we have it folks. A full confession from Griff, that his promotion of AGW is POLITICAL.
At long fucking last !
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 7:54 pm
“I doubt you let yourself be beaten up, whipped so that your skin hung like rags, and let yourself be nailed through the hands and feet until all your blood drained out.”
On the other hand, most people in a position of power wouldn’t order genocidal racial wars against the neighbours; commanding every man, woman and child to be butchered. Nor would they drown just about every man, woman and child on the planet if they were in a position to do so. Nor order people – including children – to be stoned to death for completely harmless actvities.
So, you know. No matter how bad the death of the Jesus character it can never be anything like the suffering it inflicted on countless others in the book, and nothing like the the monster actually deserved.
Personally I’d have stuck a chair-leg up its arse.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 7:58 pm
Yes kea when I post about the Treaty
Drug laws
AGW
RMA
Religion
I am an obvious liberal
liberal not conservative . There is more than one political dimension.
This is not the USA a crony capitalist theocracy. This is the New Zealand and a liberal anglophile political landscape
The political party whose “principles” I most agree with is Act.
Definitely not the present Act of conservative ringins.
I am sooo much a reflection of mainstream political thinking.
ps Its fuckin science you moron not politics
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 8:34 pm
Griff, talk about preaching to the converted buddy !
Do you actually read any of my posts ? I have to wonder, given some of your recent brain farts. I think half the problem is you carry baggage over from other AGW sites, you post on, then off load it on unsuspecting KB folk. No one here is as extreme as you make out.
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 9:07 pm
This thread is funnier after a few wines.
Can’t we all just get along?
Vote:March 19th, 2013 at 9:16 pm
Shunda, yes this thread has been a cracker. We have all had a great time lashing out at each other all over the place. The boys have really been feeling their oats today
Imagine how boring it would get if we all thought AGW, God and Bains innocence, were real.
Vote:March 20th, 2013 at 12:41 am
@Redbaiter
I am not the one posting smug argument free attempts at ridicule.
————–
Are you serious?
Almost every one of your posts on this blog is a smug argument free attempt at ridicule.
Vote:March 20th, 2013 at 2:59 am
Oh, BlairM.
So much hatred.
Yes, directed at people who try and sexualise children by calling them “gay” at six years old. I think I’m entitled to a little hate for that one.
That’s the weird thing about this whole debate – it’s not teh gays that make me angry, it’s mostly all the self-righteous straight males who like to think I’m bigoted because I happen to think sexuality develops at puberty and not at birth.
What is this bizarre desire for otherwise reasonable straight men to be so “right on” when it comes to teh gays? It’s almost gay in itself. Personally, I’ve always thought that love and acceptance were important, but should never be offered at the expense of rationality, and if people keep insisting 2+2=5, obviously I am going to point out that this is not so. “You’re full of hate!” – no, I’m full of brain cells that understand your beliefs are not rational. I’ll respect your choices in life, but I won’t lie about the nature of the universe to make you feel better about yourself.
Besides, I’m pretty sure this letter is fake anyhoo.
Vote:March 20th, 2013 at 9:33 pm
There’s more room at Earth 2…
There would be no grandparents, because people could not age – aging leads to death. Eventually the physical wears out. There would be no need to set goals, to reach any new limits, you’d have forever to do that, so why hurry? No motivation to do anything – because there is always tomorrow – plenty of tomorrows.
Can you imagine being married to the same person forever – you know that annoying little thing they do that really peeves you off now – imagine having to put up with that every day for 1,000 years and then some. I expect the divorce rate would be extremely high.
No thanks, I’m happy to move on and make room for others – those that seek eternal life – deserve it.
Vote:March 21st, 2013 at 3:02 am
Can you imagine being married to the same person forever – you know that annoying little thing they do that really peeves you off now – imagine having to put up with that every day for 1,000 years and then some. I expect the divorce rate would be extremely high.
Exactly, which is why it’s fortunate that according to the Christian faith, nobody is married in the afterlife. Thank God.
Vote: