General Debate 20 March 2013

March 20th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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133 Responses to “General Debate 20 March 2013”

  1. peterwn (2,938 comments) says:

    See:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8446540/Samaritans-must-wait-for-Asher-ruling

    “A trio of good samaritans blamed by a coroner for having “contributed” to the death of Iraena Asher …..”

    The basic message the police and coroner has given in this case is “pass on the other side of the road”.

    There is generally no legal requirement to be a Good Samaritan, exceptions being for those caring for others or drivers of motor vehicles involved in an accident causing injury.

    The police and coroner should have recognised this and should have couched the evidence and finding like ‘it was unfortunate that … but with the benefit of hindsight ….’, but to lay into the helpers in the way they did is going to further discourage people from helping. As it is some people do not want to ‘get involved’ with incidents, and if more follow this line, society will become less safe and the police will receive less assistance from the public in helping to solve crimes.

    I hope that the Chief High Court Judge appreciates this when she gives her judicial review ruling.

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  2. Pete George (21,826 comments) says:

    Will Bill English increase the business tax rate in the budget? Springing it on business as a done deal is far more effective than consulting and allowing yourself to be rolled by moneyed media manipulation.

    English to increase business tax rate in budget?

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  3. wiseowl (577 comments) says:

    The sight of Mugabe sitting in the front row at the popes inaugaration was unbelievable.

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  4. kowtow (6,717 comments) says:

    All this talk of raising extra taxes.

    The simple answer is to cut spending.Ruthlessly.

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  5. TimG_Oz (883 comments) says:

    I’d like to point out this clumsy citation from Jan Logie when trying to pressure the Government on Human Rights

    http://timgoz.blogspot.com.au/2013/03/greens-side-with-ayatollah-on-human.html

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  6. calendar girl (1,108 comments) says:

    Been talking with Peter Dunne, PG?

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  7. Lipo (226 comments) says:

    Stealing bank depositors money
    John Key has this to say in the NZ Herald http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10872361

    “Prime Minister John Key said the OBR policy was a “last-resort facility” and when told that few people seemed to know about it he responded that it was unlikely to be used.”

    I guess he was never around when the government bailed out the BNZ in 1990

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  8. KiwiGreg (3,129 comments) says:

    Why does the herald call it Shearer’s “secret” bank account, like it wasn’t really secret it was “secret”. I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t have been Key’s “secret” bank account.

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  9. wreck1080 (3,526 comments) says:

    4th day of rain….drought over!!!

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  10. Pete George (21,826 comments) says:

    cg – no, not at all.

    On Shearer’s pecuniary interests, they are very vague like everyone elses. No actual evidence of wealth.

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  11. James Stephenson (1,885 comments) says:

    The sight of Mugabe sitting in the front row at the popes inaugaration was unbelievable.

    Disgraceful, outrageous, disgusting? Yes. Unbelievable? Sadly not.

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  12. Cunningham (746 comments) says:

    IMF refute the communist/green party plans to ruin our economy:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10872288

    National can have alot of fun in the election campaign ridiculing them for their rediculious ideas.

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  13. Cunningham (746 comments) says:

    wiseowl (221) Says:

    March 20th, 2013 at 8:26 am
    The sight of Mugabe sitting in the front row at the popes inaugaration was unbelievable.

    Another example of why I have no respect whatsoever for the Vatican. Allowing this murderous dictator to attend says alot about them and their suppsed values (or lack of). If they cared about poor people (of whom Mugabe has made an entire country) like they make out they do they would have banned him from attending.

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  14. James Stephenson (1,885 comments) says:

    @Cunningham – Yes, but Africa’s one of their target growth markets.

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  15. sbk (299 comments) says:

    Oh dear..”‘Lawmakers in Cyprus voted against a bank-deposit levy…(and) set the country on collision course with its European partners.”

    EU bureacrats …”fucking fools”…blinded by ideology(idiologic),and now blindsided by the average Joe.

    …time to buy gold.

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  16. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    some humorous (un)enlightenment to start your day

    Miss USA
    “Should Math Be Taught In Schools?”

    http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/schools-are-prisons-1/miss-usa-should-math-be-taught-in-schools.html

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  17. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “…time to buy gold.”

    Mostly gone

    Now it’s all about Bitcoin

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  18. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “IMF refute the communist/green party plans to ruin our economy:”

    They just want to get on the tail end of the Nat/Labs and get the credit

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  19. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Cyprus: “Daylight robbery”

    Coming to a bank account near you

    http://www.realecontv.com/videos/europe/cyprus-daylight-robbery-.html

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  20. Cunningham (746 comments) says:

    hinamanu (2,339) Says:

    “They just want to get on the tail end of the Nat/Labs and get the credit”

    Hahaha yeah it’s all a big conspiracy between the IMF and National isn’t it? FFS not everything is a conspiracy. Maybe the communist parties idea was just plain shit.

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  21. iMP (2,154 comments) says:

    CHCH cardboard cathedral almost up. Pics. http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/03/20/chch-cardboard-cathedral-nearly-up

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  22. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    The enemy within

    ” However, we all know WHO THE ENEMY IS. Adolf Hitler was never going to be persuaded. Neither was Joe Stalin. Neither is Fidel Castro. Neither is Barack Obama. Neither is Louisa Wall. Neither is David Cameron. Neither is Andrew Cuomo. Neither is Michael Bloomberg. Neither is John Key. Neither is Cameron Slater. Neither is Julia Gillard. Neither is David Farrar. Persuasion is a waste of time, progressives must be defeated.”

    Author unhinged unknown. :)

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  23. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    So much for Mr farrar’s confidence in GMO food

    Hungary Destroys All Monsanto GMO Corn Fields: http://goo.gl/kCppW

    Bhutan – The World’s First 100% Organic Nation: http://goo.gl/eSlIl

    FDA approves first GMO flu vaccine containing reprogrammed insect virus: http://goo.gl/cZnJj

    Two Reporters Fired by Fox News for Revealing Health Dangers in Milk: http://goo.gl/Hahns — with Lilian Totino Coluccio.

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  24. southtop (257 comments) says:

    New Race Relations Commissioner: Dame Susan Devoy
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8449011/Dame-Susan-Devoy-new-Race-Relations-Commissioner

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  25. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    Well, Dame Susan will not have to be very good to be better than the cringing apologist and guilt monger de Bres…be interesting to watch how an appointee of Minister Collins performs..

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  26. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    :26 am
    New Race Relations Commissioner: Dame Susan Devoy

    I was kinda hoping it was going to be Redbaiter.

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  27. Bob (443 comments) says:

    I don’t think Banks will achieve much by criticising Shearer over his forgotten bank account for $50,000. While I am not a fan of Labour I accept Shearer is an honest man and probably has made an honest mistake. Also for a man in his position $50,000 is not a huge sum of money unless it was a bribe. It would be peanuts to Banks.

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  28. Colville (1,779 comments) says:

    @Cunningham – Yes, but Africa’s one of their target growth markets.

    Just what Africa needs … more AIDS and unwanted babies

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  29. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    Excellent! This is shaping up to be another “whip the papists” day! Well why not? they used to do it do themselves, and members of some less well known sects of the Holy Mother Church probably still do!!

    Just off to get popcorn….

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  30. backster (2,000 comments) says:

    Bob………..It had to be at least $50,000 in 2008 probably considerably more. Still if you think you may have forgotten about a similar lodgement in a secret account somewhere in the world, then your charity is understandable, but I don’t think it would convince a jury.

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  31. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “I was kinda hoping it was going to be Redbaiter.”

    Does not offer himself publicly.

    What this country needs is a good orator. Unfortunately the middle class won’t suffer tall poppies so we get hidden facists with no vision just agenda’s.

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  32. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “Yes, but Africa’s one of their target growth markets.”

    Africa is a target for vaccinated de-population. Watch any Bill Gates You Tube vid.

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  33. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    Re Shearer’s “overlooked” account…I really dont think it washes that he “forgot” about an account that has at least $50k in it, possibly a great deal more…My small experience among the rich is that they dont forget ANY money they have lying around! For example, I know of one very wealthy donor to ACT for whom $20k WAS literally peanuts…but a loan of that amount to the party was followed up assiduously by the lender….At the very least, I would have thought a socialist like Mr Shearer should be disclosing how much is in the account and the source of the funds…to my knowledge he has thus far done neither…

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  34. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    hinamanu (2,343) Says:

    March 20th, 2013 at 10:57 am
    “I was kinda hoping it was going to be Redbaiter.”

    Does not offer himself publicly.

    What this country needs is a good orator. Unfortunately the middle class won’t suffer tall poppies so we get hidden facists with no vision just agenda’s.

    hinamanu, I would not call our mate Red a “hidden” facist. He even wants big government in the bedroom, telling us who we can shag.

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  35. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    Mr Shearer cannot tell us how much is in the account. He has forgotten already.

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  36. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    Kea (2,643) Says: March 20th, 2013 at 11:05 am
    “I would not call our mate Red a “hidden” facist. He even wants big government in the bedroom, telling us who we can shag.”

    Shag the carpet for all I care, but “marriage”?

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  37. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Dennis, I think women are rather lovely and have no desire to marry a hairy arsed bloke. So personally I do not need central government preventing me from marrying a homo. I do not judge you, each to his own :)

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  38. Ed Snack (1,539 comments) says:

    Cyprus, does anyone know if the deposits were explicitly covered by deposit insurance ? Because if not, losing 6-12% and getting a bailout seems a lot better than losing 100% which is what would happen if there’s no bailout. It seems that the Cyprus banks are significantly invested in Greek Bonds; and what with an investor “haircut” having been already negotiated for those bond holders, the banks surely have a problem.

    And isn’t deposit insurance limited to (usually) a certain value ? In NZ I thought it was the first $100K only, although that was waived I think in some circumstances, around South Canterbury for example. So, if you have $500K in a Cyprus Bank, even full deposit insurance would see you losing 80% if there’s no bailout. And those banks are notorious for their lax oversight of money laundering and compliance with other regulations.

    No doubt the German taxpayers strenuously object to coughing up more cash for a bunch of thieving Russian Oligarchs, and probably don’t have much sympathy for a bunch of Cypriots either.

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  39. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Kea. I know your position… begging. ;) The real argument is about marriage, not homosexuals or homosexual acts. Where does judgement (of a person) come in to it? The only judgement is whether changing the definition of marriage to include homosexual acts is good for society.

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  40. southtop (257 comments) says:

    Kea & DG:
    Hadn’t thought about Reddy as RRC however did have more than a passing thought for John Ansell – now that would be fun and possibly timely?

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  41. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    John Ansell as RRC! Actually although I have never met John, I quite seriously believe he would be good at it..He certainly knows a great deal about our early colonial history – the real stuff, not the revisionist crap that is peddled to kids now – and I have no reason to think he would not stomp on any “real” racism or true “hate speech”…

    But I know nothing of Dame Susan other than her exploits on the squash court twenty years ago, so it will be interesting to see how she does..

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  42. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    I’ve no time for Susan Devoy.

    She lost my trust when she gave a certain ‘celebrity’ a personal reference – then screamed blue murder when he used it in Court. Either you think a person has attributes and is worthy of reference, or you don’t. According to her it was ok for him to use that reference for other purposes, just not in Court. The type of offence didn’t feature in her argument.

    She was a wonderful sportsperson, but she’s a flake.

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  43. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Dennis Horne, although I am ok with gay marriage, your side has some good points and I respect that.

    The deciding factor for me is personal choice. Your definition of marriage need not change. The Christian version of marriage need not change. My version of marriage need not change. We can all maintain our beliefs and I encourage those who oppose gay marriage to do so.

    By allowing gay marriage we are extending that personal choice to everyone, not restricting it to an arbitary few. The definition you and I have [of marriage] may not be shared by others. I have no problem with that difference, as it does not effect me or my beliefs.

    I have seen some good arguments made along the lines of preserving societal norms for the benefit of kids etc. I do not discount those concerns, but predict that some of the outcomes contemplated will not eventuate.

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  44. Fletch (5,726 comments) says:

    Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas bestowed official honors on the mother of three terrorists days ahead of President Barack Obama’s much-anticipated visit to the region Wednesday.

    Abbas bequeathed the “medal of sacrifice” on Sunday to Mariam Farhat, a recently deceased Hamas lawmaker who encouraged three of her children to die while committing terrorist acts, according to Arab media reports.

    Farhat was dubbed a “martyr of the nation and of duty” and a “condolences house” was erected at Abbas’ office in the West Bank, according to an independent translation of the reports.

    Abbas’ recognition of terrorists has raised concerns about his commitment to the peace process on the eve of Obama’s trip to Israel and the West Bank where he will meet with the Palestinian leader and other high-ranking officials.

    I don’t hold out much hope for the peace process then…

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  45. Manolo (12,636 comments) says:

    A lovely local: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8629215/tourist-attacker-hunted-by-waikato-police

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  46. Manolo (12,636 comments) says:

    Labour lite should abolish the quango instead of nominating and appointing a new leech.

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  47. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    Judith (1,796) Says: March 20th, 2013 at 12:05 pm
    I’ve no time for … she’s a flake.

    Can she see the wood for the trees? Argue like a kitten playing with a ball of wool? Scramble an egg by looking at it?

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  48. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    Kea (2,645) Says: March 20th, 2013 at 12:16 pm
    Your definition of marriage need not change.

    Ah, I see where the difficulty is.

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  49. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    A fatal blow may have been delivered to Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s (D-CA) federal ban on ‘assault’ weapons after Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) said on Monday that it will not be included as part of a comprehensive gun control package that the Senate will consider next month.

    Faced with the tough news, Feinstein all but admitted defeat, “I very much regret it” she told reporters, adding, “I tried my best, but my best, I guess, wasn’t good enough.”

    When pressed about why Reid opted to omit the 2013 Assault Weapons Ban from the Democratic-sponsored gun package, Feinstein said, “You will have to ask him [Reid].”

    Though, technically speaking, the 2013 AWB is not completely dead in the water. It will be offered as an amendment to the larger package – a package that will include a universal background check bill (details to be decided), a bill to increase federal funding for school safety programs and a bill designed to crack down on straw purchasers – when the full Senate convenes.

    Video: http://theanti-media.org/2013/03/19/feinsteins-assault-weapons-ban-dropped-from-senate-gun-bill-video/

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  50. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    “Ah, I see where the difficulty is.”

    Well tell us about it Dennis ?

    Is the “difficulty” deciding your personal definition of marriage ? My definition is marriage is between a man and a woman, forever. No if’s or but’s.

    My homo mate may have a different view though. But there again we disagree on lots of things.

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  51. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “hinamanu, I would not call our mate Red a “hidden” facist. He even wants big government in the bedroom, telling us who we can shag.”

    I was suggesting he may be a solid orator and a voice is definitely needed which isn’t supported by the establishment

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  52. David Garrett (5,150 comments) says:

    Well Judith, since you see killing people as “mistakes”, and think a person who has done it not once but twice is on a par with me and my dodgy passport, “flake” is one of the more polite labels I would apply to you….You have zero credibility in my book…

    Manolo: I agree with you entirely…they should also abolish the Ministry of Womens Affairs and various other totally superfluous bodies and organs, but it seems that that is all to hard for them, so the next best we can hope for is that the appointees to these bodies are not …flakes. Or useless cringing guilt merchants like de Bres was….

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  53. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    I see no one on here has caught up with Bitcoin. I’m really surprised Mr Farrar hasn’t

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  54. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    Kea (2,646) Says: March 20th, 2013 at 12:46 pm
    My homo mate may have a different view though.

    What is the basis for this different view? If I want to call trucks buses no one will stop me. If I don’t teach my children the difference, they might step out in from of one at a bus stop. That is why we have definitions. So we can talk about things.

    The basis of homosexual marriage is: “I want it.”

    Kea says no to hairy arse
    So new law then can pass
    Redefine marriage for a queer
    Hoping no one will then sneer
    Never mind it’s all a farce.

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  55. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Dennis, please include a -point- in your comments. It makes it so much more interesting to other readers.

    Why do you want YOUR definition of marriage imposed on people by the armed state ?

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  56. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Kea. Why do you want your definition of murder imposed on me?
    Question, again: What is the basis of the different view?

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  57. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Kea. Getting back to my first (invisible) point, how is “my” definition of marriage not changing? Not only is the whole-world definition since time immemorial changing, or the essence of it, the law everywhere in the West is changing to accommodate the change.

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  58. minto57 (197 comments) says:

    The fake wedding directive could be desribed as loose arseholes flatuating into the wind

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  59. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Dennis, once again:

    Kea (2,647) Says:
    March 20th, 2013 at 12:16 pm
    Dennis Horne, although I am ok with gay marriage, your side has some good points and I respect that.

    The deciding factor for me is personal choice. Your definition of marriage need not change. The Christian version of marriage need not change. My version of marriage need not change. We can all maintain our beliefs and I encourage those who oppose gay marriage to do so.

    By allowing gay marriage we are extending that personal choice to everyone, not restricting it to an arbitary few. The definition you and I have [of marriage] may not be shared by others. I have no problem with that difference, as it does not effect me or my beliefs.

    I have seen some good arguments made along the lines of preserving societal norms for the benefit of kids etc. I do not discount those concerns, but predict that some of the outcomes contemplated will not eventuate.

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  60. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Dennis, under the proposed legislation, do you predict that YOU :

    a. Will be more gay ?

    b. Less gay ?

    c. Just as gay as you are now ?

    See my point ?

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  61. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    “@Kea. Why do you want your definition of murder imposed on me?”

    Because murder imposes something on another with no benefit. Just like stopping fags from marrying.

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  62. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Congressman Huelscamp on why he voted against the NDAA bill

    DHS Refuses to Answer Congress on 1.6 Billion Bullet Purchase

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  63. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    David Garrett (3,383) Says:
    March 20th, 2013 at 12:49 pm
    ——————————

    You seem to totally miss my point David. It is not about what that person has done many years ago – but it is that person’s attitude towards their offending in the here and now – that is of course the concern of today’s society, and to me.

    I know from much experience, and from copious quantities of research that support it, that the likelihood of a person committing the same, or similar offence 20 or more years later (regardless of the type of initial offence/s) depends entirely on their attitude towards that offending.

    In all honesty should I be presenting a report titled ‘the most likely to re-offend’ (and therefore be of concern to society) between you and the other person, your attitude to your offending would make you the winner (in a loser kind of way) and I do not mean that as an insult.

    Even today, you worry me – because of your lack of acceptance of the severity in what you did. You still appear to think it was little more than a joke despite your acknowledgement of the emotional harm and your apologies to those concerned – and especially your attitude towards me as immediately being the enemy because I have challenged you on it.

    Tell me David, do you get so defensive to everyone that mentions your crime? How many times a week/month/year do you downplay it, make a joke of it, or shut someone up from talking about it, because you don’t like to, or do you surround yourself with people that won’t mention it? How open and accepting are you of your offence & propensity to offend – because unless there is acceptance, statistics suggest there is every opportunity of re-offence – perhaps not in the same manner, but in some other way. I guess I don’t see someone that seems to have learned very much from the experience.

    When I read your comments about various topics on KB I take them as they are written – I agree with you on some, and disagree on others. I do not allow your offending to influence me, unless it is part of the subject matter, such as last nights discussion, but you seem prepared to let it influence your opinion in all matters.

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  64. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Kea. You completely miss the point. It’s not about me. I will be neither gay nor happy.

    It’s not about murder being acceptable or not, it’s about definitions. I must accept your definition of murder because the definition is important to you and cannot be changed; I must accept your definition of marriage because it is not.

    @Judith. There is no comparison between killing someone and using a dead infant’s name. One, possibly offensive to someone taking it personally, the other probably destroying the lives of those left behind too.

    I reported the discussion last night, for good reasons, but your argument is absurd.

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  65. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    I must accept your definition of marriage

    Dennis Horne. Ok I see your point, it is about “definition” to you.

    The definition of marriage is subjective. You do not need to accept my definition (between a man and a women for life) if you don’t like it.

    But nor should others be required to accept the definition you, or politicians, prefer. If others have their own definition it in no way minimises your definition. Each to his own and all that…

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  66. Pete George (21,826 comments) says:

    David Shearer has a few wee issues of his own at the moment.

    Plus he has promoted Shane Jones to the front bench despite having a not quite unblemished record.

    And Shearer apparently encouraged John Tamihere to return to Labour with a view to standing next election – so no matter who is right or wrong, this doesn’t help the Labour of Shearer image:

    Talkback host and former Cabinet minister John Tamihere is being pursued through the courts over an alleged $500,000 debt.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8450486/Tamihere-allegedly-owes-500k

    It must be tough being a Labour supporter at the moment.

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  67. Andrei (2,431 comments) says:

    It must be tough being a Labour supporter at the moment.

    Must be even tougher being a United Future supporter with its single MP who is hell bent on promoting idiotic new taxes

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  68. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Kea. No, it’s not about definitions. It’s about concepts. And how do we deal with concepts? Maths and language.

    Changing the definition changes the concept, eventually. Marriage has since time immemorial concerned mating and rearing any children, the formalisation of a special relationship between male and female that has its roots in the beginning of life itself. It has never admitted homosexual acts.

    I think we need a very good reason to change this. I don’t think making homosexual feel better is enough.

    Homosexuals don’t want to be married, they want to be the same. They are not the same. It’s as silly as saying men and women are the same. Their relationships are not the same, not marriage.

    Few homosexuals will get married, maybe 5%. But hey, they can if they want to… Narcissistic humbug.

    I accept the inevitable, just as people have watched helplessly as their countries march to war. Man is a mad animal.

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  69. lilman (673 comments) says:

    Hi need help if you can?

    Off to Los Angelos in july for a week with wife and 3 teenagers, can anyone give me some ideas as to things we must see in our week long stay?
    Any help with ideas would be very helpful thanks again.

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  70. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Must be even tougher being a United Future supporter with its single MP who is hell bent on promoting idiotic new taxes

    How about being part of a political faction with no coherent party structure

    The christian conservative party :lol:

    Manifesto

    1] Founded on the principles of

    the benefits of national sovereignty

    the benefits of parliamentary democracy with governments being held accountable

    the inalienable human right of each individual to pursue prosperity, happiness and freedom within a peaceful, well-ordered and well-governed society

    our Judeo-Christian heritage, which includes the Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount, the 1215 Magna Carta and the 1688 Bill of Rights

    freedom of speech

    freedom of religion;

    2] Believing that socialism is to be avoided and that the free enterprise system is best, as long as it is constrained within the benevolent boundaries of Christian principles

    3] Committing to uphold the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Australia, with its Preamble that this nation is “humbly relying on the blessings of God”, and with its checks and balances, and with its intent that the ancient provisions of British law are to ensure the rights of the people, and
    Committing that the Constitution and those provisions continue along the lines intended by our founding fathers until the Australian people decide otherwise by Referendum by informed consent after thorough public debate

    4] Committing that our one current Australian flag should not be changed

    5] Believing that the size of government and levels of taxation need to be limited to the minimum required to achieve justice and efficient administration, with the least possible intrusion into the lives of individuals and busines

    6] Affirming the traditional family unit (man, woman and children) as the fundamental and centuries-proven building block of a stable society and therefore committing to uphold traditional family values and to uphold that marriage is defined as the union of a man and a woman voluntarily entered into for life to the exclusion of all others.

    http://riseupaustraliaparty.com/?page_id=14

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  71. Pete George (21,826 comments) says:

    I don’t know Andrei, I’m quite happy doing what I’m doing.

    And I suspect I’m having more successes with what I’m supporting than you are right now. You seem to have a very negative aura.

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  72. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Homosexuals don’t want to be married, they want to be the same.

    I accept the inevitable, just as people have watched helplessly as their countries march to war. Man is a mad animal.

    Dennis, I find myself in the position of agreeing with your ideas on a personal level, but not agreeing with your conclusion. I can assure you that we have considerable common ground.

    However that does not give you & I licence to dictate on such intimate matters to others.

    I have no idea if homos want to be the same and it makes no difference to me. If they want to play man & wife, then let them go for it. I doubt that is the case though. The comparisson with war is a bit dramatic. I doubt thing will be that bad.

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  73. Fletch (5,726 comments) says:

    You know, I think we’ve had wayyyyyy more debate on the topic of homosexual marriage on this blog than even the select committee ever did. They need to review these posts and comments and then take at least 6 months to come to any decision. They need heaps more submissions and more hearing from the public.

    The whole thing is way too rushed. I find their examination of the subject very cursory.

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  74. mandk (703 comments) says:

    Lilman @ 3.15
    The Getty Museum is fantastic, if you have the least interest in art and want to do something other than visit the movie studios.

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  75. mandk (703 comments) says:

    Fletch, I agree.
    There are also other issues far more improtant in human rights terms.
    I’ve already highlighted the abortion (= denial of the right to life) issue, but what about the denial of my rights because I have colour defective vision, like approx 8% of the male population.
    Colour blind people are discriminated against in a whole heap of ways in every day life.

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  76. thedavincimode (6,129 comments) says:

    we’ve had wayyyyyy more debate hypocrisy, abuse and naked hatred on the topic of homosexual marriage

    There ya go!

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  77. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    You know, I think we’ve had wayyyyyy more debate on the topic of homosexual marriage on this blog than even the select committee ever did.

    Fletch, it is going to happen. As they say, you may as well bend over and take it.

    It is a global thing and NZ loves to be seen on the cutting, bleeding, edge of these types of social changes. We were the first to give women the vote ! Imagine how much fuss that stupid idea caused back in the day.

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  78. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Kea. It is not with war that I do compare, it’s helplessness, war is just an obvious cause.

    It is not what homosexuals do that I am objecting to — apart from the spread of infection, which is very serious — I couldn’t care less. It’s the demand to call the relationship marriage, which it is not, not by any reasonable definition of the natural relationship between men and women for millions of years. I repeat, millions of years.

    Naturally words change over time, and so do concepts. Houses change, but they do not become aeroplanes. Maybe some are houseboats. Where do we draw lines and is it important? Yes, I can see a similarity between and copulation and buggery, a couple living together.

    Well, I’m off to shag a sheep now. Don’t tell anyone, it’s illegal. Maybe if I kill it first… I don’t need consent for that.

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  79. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Dennis, you will have to consult with our resident expert Dr Johnboy re the sheep :)

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  80. Pete George (21,826 comments) says:

    Everyone who wants another six months of detailed daily discussion on gay marriage plus every nitty gritty detail on homosexuality and gods give this comment an up thumb.

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  81. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    As I see it, if a bank I have my money with goes belly up, either I claim on my deposit insurance, or I lose my money. As a depositor, I’m basically an unsecured creditor* so having some of my deposit help prevent a total loss is probably a good thing.

    In Cyprus, the government isn’t able to raise the tax money it needs to pay its debts, so it’s Eurozone creditors have directed them to raid the bank accounts of depositors. To some extent tax has always been theft, but never quite as naked as this.

    And Cunliffe believes the change in NZ banking regulations is Cyprus-like? Nonsense.

    Given how fiscally irresponsible Labour is (incl their leader ‘forgetting’ stuff) the Cyprus solution is probably one they’d need to copy Cyprus in fairly short order.

    *Can any financial sector buffs confirm this?

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  82. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    At 4:46 Pete tries a new strategy to SOMEHOW secure a few +ve karma’s :)

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  83. Pete George (21,826 comments) says:

    Not for the first time you have misjudged my intent kk. It’s called devious polling,

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  84. jaba (2,069 comments) says:

    Dr RUSSEL NORMAN to the Minister of Finance: Will New Zealanders have money taken from their bank accounts to fund a bank bailout under his proposed Open Bank Resolution scheme?

    Norman is shitting himself that a future tax (levy to the Greens) stream could be reduced when he becomes Minister of Finance in a future Labour lead Govt.

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  85. Dean Papa (623 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8446540/Samaritans-must-wait-for-Asher-ruling

    yet we are expected to accept that a judge who grants bail to a suspect, ignoring warnings from both victim and police, is to be in no way considered responsible for any further offences committed by this suspect while out on bail.

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  86. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    jaba – this is the same Wussell who remains eager to fire up the printing presses thereby devaluing everyone’s savings. He’s a hypocrite.

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  87. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    yet we are expected to accept that a judge who grants bail to a suspect, ignoring warnings from both victim and police, is to be in no way considered responsible for any further offences committed by this suspect while out on bail.

    The only person responsible is the offender. Period. Not police, not probation, not anyone else. Just the offender.

    If you want to go the other way, then the offenders sentence should be reduced due to the shared responsibility you have imposed on the Judge.

    Is that what you want, responsibility removed from the offender and placed onto others ? Because that is what you are saying.

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  88. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Dean Papa, I read your link. Aside from the increasingly idiotic coroners findings , there was this:

    “One of the points the applicants feel particularly aggrieved by is that the police prepared evidence in which they criticised them but they were given no notice of that,” Mr Gallaway said. “It demonstrates a failure in process and one I submit we will never want to see again.”

    I do not care for the worthless assessments made by police not qualified or trained in such things. As an occupational group they have an appalling lack of ability in assessing people and situations. The only people who think otherwise are the police themselves and the usual sycophants toward authority.

    This is a miserable and destructive approach taken by the police, and coroner, towards some people doing the right thing. The “authorities” in this country need to be put back in their place promptly. The law serves the people, not the other way around.

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  89. Manolo (12,636 comments) says:

    Imbeciles in abundance: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8629497/booze-not-bottled-happiness-watchdog

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  90. Reid (15,585 comments) says:

    The Getty Museum is fantastic, if you have the least interest in art and want to do something other than visit the movie studios.

    Came across this: http://www.googleartproject.com/ not great, yet, but mildly interesting at the moment, it has quantity as you’d expect but will move from good to great if or when they get high-res on their content, but perhaps they’re constrained by people like Bill Gates, who I recall bought the digital rights to all? [at least some] of the world’s masters more than a decade ago. Good ole U.S. of A, eh? Offer copyright (c) everything in sight, while it’s cheap, then use taxpayer’s money to enforce the crap out of it once people learn they want it. Like the human genome. Wait till people learn their daughter in the womb can’t get gene therapy for her genetic propensity toward say, pancreatic cancer, unless her parents are prepared to sell their house and live like paupers for the rest of their lives. That’s coming real soon. But don’t worry, it’s just the “fwee market” in action.

    Well, Dame Susan will not have to be very good to be better than the cringing apologist and guilt monger de Bres…be interesting to watch how an appointee of Minister Collins performs..

    If I was Susan I’d come out strongly in the media tomorrow and slam Margaret Mutu on all the stations for perpetuating wacism. My first reaction to Margaret’s comment about how you have to have experienced wacism in order to know how embedded it is in every single societal institution, would be: “Margaret from her own words is obviously racist against white people and I’m launching an immediate investigation at Auckland University to determine just how far Margaret’s twisted, poisonous teachings have infested the anatomy of our precious university which incidentally is mostly funded by whites, in the first place.”

    Imbeciles in abundance:

    Exactly Manolo. If it wasn’t bottled happiness how come it makes you feel so much better after a few? The fools!

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  91. labrator (1,691 comments) says:

    So the ‘Citizens’ Initiated Referendum has ~300,000 signatures. The Mighty River Power register of interest is now over 400,000. Who was saying that people don’t want to sell the assets? Chuck Solid Energy on the heap too.

    I’ve been wondering also with all of Shearer’s rhetoric is he planning on nationalising Telecom as well as MRP?

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  92. Viking2 (10,733 comments) says:

    Drought crisis: Will Nats take emergency measures and enact their own principles?

    Drought crisis: Will Nats take emergency measures and enact their own principles?
    by John Ansell

    Bill English – Do the right thing, Bill

    Does it take a drought to force National to do the right thing?

    Will it take the prospect of a $1-2 billion economic thumping for the party to enact its founding promise to work for all New Zealanders?

    Or will our growth rate have to plummet by 30% before National keeps its ’one law for all’ promise that Bill English and Don Brash promoted, and John Key campaigned under, then reversed?

    http://treatygate.wordpress.com/2013/03/20/drought-crisis-will-nats-take-emergency-measures-and-enact-their-own-principles/

    So Bill, don’t waste this crisis. The drought gives you just the excuse you need to implement your own policies.

    Now is the time — before it rains too much.

    Now is the time for National to do the right thing.

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  93. nasska (9,541 comments) says:

    It’s incredible to think of one’s ancestors living in trees, walking naked through the forest and starting fires by rubbing two sticks together.

    But shit happens when my grandparents hit the gin.

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  94. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    I am very sorry the people who helped Iraena Asher felt the need to go to court. They are wasting their time. Nobody blames them. Nobody who matters, anyway. No one could have predicted she would have a panic attack and take off. The Police are not blameless, however. They did nothing effective to help when asked. Expect me to believe they would have sent a car later to investigate the case of a woman asleep in bed? Bohze moi, believe that and you could believe anything.

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  95. OneTrack (1,974 comments) says:

    “peterwn (2,016) Says:
    March 20th, 2013 at 8:09 am
    See:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8446540/Samaritans-must-wait-for-Asher-ruling

    “A trio of good samaritans blamed by a coroner for having “contributed” to the death of Iraena Asher …..”

    The basic message the police and coroner has given in this case is “pass on the other side of the road”.”

    So, what is the approved action to take now when someone turns up outside your house acting drunk and out of it? Call the police (111?) so they can send a patrol car to pick the drunk up and take them home? Maybe they can forward the call onto he Coroner and they could come out and take the drunk home?

    We always have to blame someone, don’t we.

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  96. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    The Police are not blameless, however.

    Dennis, now I have to come to the defense of the police.

    The police are not an all purpose fix it up agency. They do not have the legislative powers, or the training, to deal with every eventuality. It is not the cops fault if someone goes nuts.

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  97. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    Reid I very much doubt anybody has the balls to stand up to the disgusting Margaret Mutu- the woman who referred to White people as a “virus”…

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/09/mutu_says_ban_white_immigrants.html

    Anyone else concerned that this person is heavily involved in our Constitutional ‘review’??

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  98. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    nasska (5,898) Says: March 20th, 2013 at 8:00 pm
    … [grandparents] … walking naked through the forest … rubbing two sticks together…

    Oh, well, could be worse. In future some people will look back and imagine their grandparents rubbing two dicks together.

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  99. UglyTruth (3,123 comments) says:

    The fake wedding directive could be desribed as loose arseholes flatuating into the wind

    homo humanus, the educated Roman

    http://greekleftreview.wordpress.com/tag/academic-article/

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  100. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Kea. Balderdash. The Police stick their noses into anything and everything that interests them and nothing that doesn’t.

    They even turned up at Raglan aerodrome one sunny day when a light aircraft’s landing gear collapsed on takeoff. Nice drive from Hamilton, perhaps.

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  101. nasska (9,541 comments) says:

    Not the sort of thing you would want to visualise on an empty stomach Dennis.

    Still different strokes for different folks…….. :)

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  102. OneTrack (1,974 comments) says:

    “labrator (1,210) Says:
    March 20th, 2013 at 7:55 pm
    So the ‘Citizens’ Initiated Referendum has ~300,000 signatures. The Mighty River Power register of interest is now over 400,000. Who was saying that people don’t want to sell the assets? Chuck Solid Energy on the heap too.

    I’ve been wondering also with all of Shearer’s rhetoric is he planning on nationalising Telecom as well as MRP?”

    Have they forgotten about Contact Energy? Surely, based on the rhetoric, Contact is an “asset” to the country, hence it should be returned to public ownership immediately, otherwise the world will end. Oh, wait, it hasn’t, …..

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  103. OneTrack (1,974 comments) says:

    “Well, I’m off to shag a sheep now. Don’t tell anyone, it’s illegal. ”

    Don’t worry. I am sure there is a private members bill already in the ballot to fix that for you.

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  104. Reid (15,585 comments) says:

    Anyone else concerned that this person is heavily involved in our Constitutional ‘review’??

    Fuck no. I mean how can anything possibli go wrong with these “luminaries?”

    Emeritus Professor John Burrows QC (Co-chair)
    Sir Tipene O’Regan (Co-chair)
    Peter Chin
    Deborah Coddington
    Hon Dr Michael Cullen
    Hon John Luxton
    Bernice Mene
    Dr Leonie Pihama
    Hinurewa Poutu
    Professor Linda Smith
    Peter Tennent
    Emeritus Professor Dr Ranginui Walker

    Seriously, you wouldn’t think this was a National govt in power at the mo when you look at that composition, would you.

    I wonder what they’re going to say? My prediction is, their draft will say that all whitey’s have to leave without any compo, and six months later they’ll compromise by offering, begrudgingly, merely to embed “the principles” (undefined) of Te Tiriti deep inside our shiny brand new constitution that “belongs to all of us.”

    I can’t wait.

    Not to mention all the koha that all the whiteys have paid for the review, at a time of economic crisis, in return for the “privilege” of being told this is how it’s going to be.

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  105. Johnboy (13,420 comments) says:

    5 out of 12 are obviously treaty partners Reid.

    Seems like a fair number in modern Aotearoa! :)

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  106. Johnboy (13,420 comments) says:

    There does seem to be a bit of a shortage of Mechanics, Plumbers and Electricians on the reveiw panel Reid.

    I guess they are all too busy trying to earn enough to pay their taxes so the panel folk can get the renumeration they are worth! :)

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  107. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    Reid- While people waste their time getting all worked up over Gay marriage a group of extremists and activists are drafting a shiny new Constitution that will turn New Zealand into the Zimbabwe of the Pacific. This pending new ‘Constitution’ is the biggest threat to New Zealand society since WW2- Ask any lawyer what this all means to the rights of ‘Non-Maori’ New Zealanders..

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  108. Johnboy (13,420 comments) says:

    “Ask any lawyer what this all means to the rights of ‘Non-Maori’ New Zealanders..”

    Buy your ammo now? :)

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  109. thedavincimode (6,129 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    You aren’t thinking of joining Homobaiter_butooerrr!’s Popular Liberation Front are you? Be careful on the camping trips.

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  110. Viking2 (10,733 comments) says:

    White privilege vs Maori privilege

    On to the vexed subject of white privilege versus Maori privilege. There is a chapter detailing “white privilege” in the treatyist bible “Healing our history – the challenge of the treaty of Waitangi”, mostly written by Robert Consedine. He is the Consedine who conducts Project Waitangi workshops around the country. These workshops use psychodrama, an action method often used as a psychotherapy, in which clients use spontaneous dramatization, role playing and dramatic self-presentation to investigate and gain insight, in this case, into how wicked and racist the white coloniser has been. This column summarises Consedine’s “white privilege” arguments and uses Consedine’s sub-heads to see whether there is Maori privilege.

    http://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/mike-butler-white-privilege-vs-maori.html

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  111. Johnboy (13,420 comments) says:

    Ooh you are a card Leonardo. I’ve never camped in my life.

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  112. Reid (15,585 comments) says:

    There does seem to be a bit of a shortage of Mechanics, Plumbers and Electricians on the reveiw panel Reid.

    You see, they’re not “advanced thinkers” Johnboy. All they know how to do is build actual stuff that really works and doesn’t fall over or kill anyone. That’s clearly not considered to be a relevant skill here.

    This pending new ‘Constitution’ is the biggest threat to New Zealand society since WW2- Ask any lawyer what this all means to the rights of ‘Non-Maori’ New Zealanders..

    If [and when] the [undefined] “principles” of Te Tiriti are proposed to become embedded into the constitution, I predict Susan Devoy might regret taking on her new role.

    But if you were a lawyer, you’d love it, wouldn’t you. I mean….

    “but your Honour, your decision bweaches the [just recently defined today which I just thought of] pwinciples of Te Tiwiti and my client not only deserves home detention but s/he deserves a few $mill as well because they’re a victim, and if you don’t agwee, why I’ll just [use more of whitey's free money to] take this to the SC, because they listen to this sort of thing all the time, these days, day in and day out, forget the other stuff like commerce whatnots, that’s not important, this is constitutional…”

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  113. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    Seriously guys, didn’t you learn anything about NZ history from James Embellich before he became professor at Oxford?

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  114. Viking2 (10,733 comments) says:

    The changes are equally as dramatic in the newspaper industry. As readers switch from print to on-line editions, advertisers are looking for other ways to promote their businesses. The fall in revenue has caused newspapers to shed staff and cuts costs. The adverse effects of this dramatic downsizing of the print media industry are flowing onto paper mills, forestry, transport, and service towns.

    The changes to democracy are equally profound – but more on that later.

    This week’s NZCPR Guest Commentator is Karl du Fresne, a freelance journalist and former Editor of the Dominion newspaper. Karl has been following developments in the newspaper industry closely, and in his article Newspapers lose readers and revenue, examines the nature of the crisis:

    “Dismal financial results reported recently by the two big newspaper groups, APN News and Media and Fairfax Media, confirmed what had long been obvious: that the newspaper industry is reeling from the impact of the internet. Both companies are struggling with high debt and declining revenue. Like newspaper publishers worldwide, they are dealing with a crisis of a magnitude never before encountered and sometimes give the impression of having no clue what to do next. The industry is bleeding and morale could hardly be described as buoyant.”

    Karl believes that the Australian ownership of most of our newspapers has significantly contributed to the decline, but he also blames the ‘feminisation’ of media content. “Before the feminist lynch mobs assemble, I should explain … it’s not female journalists I’m concerned about – far from it – but the creeping feminisation of newspaper content. By this I mean the increasing proportion of newspaper space devoted to ‘soft’ topics – fluffy human interest stories, gossipy items and lifestyle-oriented content better suited to women’s magazines. Some call it latté journalism. In metropolitan papers especially, café reviews and profiles of celebrity chefs, fashion designers, baristas and TV personalities have displaced investigative reporting and traditional ‘hard’ news about events and issues of importance.” To read Karl’s excellent analysis, click HERE.

    The consequence of this trend from investigation to fluff is far reaching. The free press has a crucial role to play in democratic affairs. As the Fourth Estate, the media should stand as the fourth pillar of a free democracy – alongside the Executive, Parliament, and the Judiciary – acting not only as a watchdog over government, but as a fearless defender of free speech.

    But the problem is that as resources that once provided serious in-depth investigative journalism are re-directed into soft entertainment, the ability of mainstream media to fulfil its crucial Fourth Estate role is being compromised. One only needs to look at the changes in the crucial post-news 7pm slot at our state television broadcaster TVNZ to see the trend, as the highly regarded investigative Holmes Show morphed into the ‘lighter’ Closeup, which has now abandoned all pretence at serious investigation to become an unashamedly fluffy ‘Seven Sharp’.

    These changes are leaving the public increasingly exposed to the spin of vested interest groups masquerading as news.

    NZCPR reader Robin Grieve has taken exception to one such instance of this by lodging a complaint to TVNZ for incorporating Treaty propaganda into their Waitangi Day news coverage. The complaint involves the usage of the Treaty activists’ line that the Treaty of Waitangi is the Nation’s ‘founding document’ by a news reader who stated in her introduction: “… from the Treaty Grounds at Waitangi where the Nation’s founding document was first signed 173 years ago”.

    In his letter Robin made the case that the Treaty is not the Nation’s founding document, but was simply an agreement between the British Government and the natives of New Zealand. He argues that it was the 1852 New Zealand Constitution Act that gave the country nationhood status through the right of self government and that it is this Act that should be described as our ‘founding document’.

    Robin also asserted that the newsreader was promoting misinformation at a crucial time when political activists are pushing for a Treaty of Waitangi constitution: “The news reader’s words will elevate the Treaty in the minds of people who have not researched the facts beyond what it is. There is also debate over the importance of the Treaty and its significance and whether it should be included in any constitution. Opinions vary and that is to be expected and news readers should play no role in shaping people’s opinions other than in presenting facts on which they can base them.”

    In their reply, the Complaints Committee of TVNZ stated that they could not identify any errors of fact: “The Treaty of Waitangi is widely accepted and known as the founding document of New Zealand and it is therefore accurate to refer to it in this way in the ONE News item.”

    The issue Robin has highlighted, of course, is that while something may be ‘widely accepted’ it may not in fact be correct – especially where that acceptance has been driven by a vested interest group with a political agenda and parroted by a media that is failing to uphold its responsibilities as the Fourth Estate.

    Robin has yet to decide whether he wants to take this further and appeal to the Broadcasting Standards Authority. The full complaint and response from TVNZ can be found on Breaking Views HERE – Robin would welcome any constructive suggestions (through the blog comments) for countering the Treaty propaganda machine, which seems to have public broadcasters in its grip!

    All of this brings to mind The Big Lie, a propaganda technique coined by Adolf Hitler and described in his 1925 book Mein Kampf, that if a lie, so ‘colossal’ that no one would believe that someone ‘could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously’ is repeated often enough, people will eventually come to believe it. The version, “If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth” was later attributed to his Propaganda Minister, Joseph Goebbels.

    That technique is certainly being used by Treaty activists, and New Zealanders like Robin Grieve, who are challenging such misinformation, should be encouraged.

    While Karl du Fresne has pointed out the impact of the IT revolution on the media, the implications go much wider – to the heart of democracy itself.

    In Italy last month, the political establishment was stunned to find that a brand new party run by a comedian had secured more votes than any of them. The movement won more than 8 million protest voters, a success seen by local analysts as a signal that Italians are deeply dissatisfied with the country’s political class. With a tsunami-like effect, Beppe Grillo’s Five Star Movement swept away competitors, winning 25.5 percent of the votes.

    The success of the Five Star Movement can be attributed to the Internet. Founded by Mr Grillo through his blog in 2009, the movement gathered momentum through a social media campaign that promoted the idea that politics belongs to everyone. He confronted the political ruling class head on and tapped into the mood of public discontent that was looking for a way to demand more responsive government. The IT revolution enabled Grillo to communicate directly that mood for change.

    How all of this plays out in Italy is anyone’s guess, but what it does signal is that a profound change is now taking root in democracy itself and that New Zealand is not immune from its effects.

    The reality is that here at home, MMP has forced the two major mainstream parties to have to rely on some of the more radical minor parties for coalition support in order to form a government . To the dismay of centre-right voters, National has been pushing the Maori Party’s Treaty supremacist agenda onto the country, while under Labour, the Greens’ environmental extremism was forced into law. Maybe it is now time for a new way.

    Using the power of the Internet, perhaps the time is right for a No Confidence Movement to be formed to return democracy to citizens. A movement that is neither left nor right but committed to some basic principles: respect for equal rights, for the rule of law, for private property rights, for community – economic, social, cultural and environmental – wellbeing, and for politicians to become the true servants of the people.

    Again, thanks to the Internet, a public referendum process could be established that would enable citizens to state their preferences on the bills in front of Parliament. If Switzerland is anything to go by, the public would be eager to embrace the opportunity to have their voices reflected directly in the key public policy decisions of the day.

    Unfortunately in New Zealand establishment politics is moving further away from citizens democracy. We now have the unacceptable situation where the government is allowing a radical coalition partner to move the country towards a race-based constitution, that would enshrine the privilege of one racial group over all others. That the National Party would go along with such an abhorant and unbridled power grab is an indictment on our democracy and a sad reflection of the arrogance of the political class. This is especially the case when it is realised the politicians have left the way open for the final shape of any new constitution to be determined by a vote in Parliament rather than through a public referendum process.

    The IT revolution has handed the public the power to reinstate a citizens democracy. But is New Zealand ready for it? Is it time for those with no confidence in the establishment to support a movement designed to shake up New Zealand politics by giving the the people a direct say in the affairs of government? If you believe that time has come then please answer ‘Yes’ in the poll.

    THIS WEEK’S POLL ASKS:
    Do you think there is a place for a citizens democracy party in New Zealand?
    Click HERE to vote

    *Read this week’s poll comments daily HERE

    http://www.nzcpr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1342

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  115. Johnboy (13,420 comments) says:

    Do you think it is time for “The (middle class) Workers Revolutionary Party” to assume power Reid.

    Why should the filthy rich, students, activists and peasants get to have fun ruling the place?

    Why can’t we boring taxpayers seize the reins of power for once? :)

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  116. Viking2 (10,733 comments) says:

    http://www.nzcpr.com/

    What we shell out for Maori.

    http://treatygate.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/maori-privilege-vote-maori-2012-13.png

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  117. labrator (1,691 comments) says:

    @viking2 TL;DR

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  118. Reid (15,585 comments) says:

    Why can’t we boring taxpayers seize the reins of power for once?

    We can if we think we can, Johnboy.

    Besides, if they object, we can shell the Beehive from the Wainui hills and they’ll never know where it’s coming from, until they get some of those Korean radar-back-tracker things, which would take ages to arrive.

    Alternatively we can pretend the planet is going to blow up due to global warming and, instead of paying our taxes, use them to build a spaceship so they can all “escape” to Mars, which, we’ve explained, will be fully terraformed, by the time they arrive.

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  119. Johnboy (13,420 comments) says:

    But it’s all worth it to see their happy little fat bodies quivering as they stamp their feet, roll their eyes, wave their spears and poke their little (pink) tongues out at you V2! :)

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  120. Johnboy (13,420 comments) says:

    Perhaps we should all just liquidate our assets and go for a cruise for a year or ten and let the pollies balance the budget and sort out who supports them among the bottom feeders/ tangata whenua! Now that would be fun to watch! :)

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  121. Reid (15,585 comments) says:

    I prefer the Mars option Johnboy. It’s been done before, as a joke telly show in the 80′s. But now things have changed and we normies could really use something like that, to give us some relief.

    Either that or just stop the modern-day telephone cleaners and hairdressers from holding all these fucking mental constitutional reviews and all the other shit that gives we normies no other alternative but to put make-believe into action. After all, that’s what they’re doing to us, we just do it to them, for a change.

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  122. KevinH (1,129 comments) says:

    Why can’t we boring taxpayers seize the reins of power for once?

    That’s what elections are for, if you want a go stand up and be counted. Nutcases like John Ansell and his cohorts Garret and CPR have had their day and were found out to be phonies.

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  123. Johnboy (13,420 comments) says:

    If they spent more time in the bath perhaps it would reduce their urge to make decisions on our behalf. :)

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  124. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Nutcase.

    The head of Maori studies at Auckland University, Margaret Mutu, says the new Race Relations Commissioner has to acknowledge what she describes as racism against Maori.
    Government departments are extremely difficult for Maori to deal with,” Professor Mutu says, “because of the level of institutionalised racism that exists in all of them

    Just like that hate fulled woman at the meeting house.

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  125. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    If it’s so awful being a Maori why do they pretend to be Maoris? With one g-g-grandfather Scottish, should I wear a kilt and blame everyone else for my problems and inadequacies?

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  126. Left Right and Centre (2,396 comments) says:

    Why is it wine and beer week at pak n save?

    Wine and beer week?

    Does anyone need a wine and beer week?

    Every week is already wine and beer week for a lot of people. What’s special about a particular week and declaring that it’s wine and beer week at a supermarket? What does that mean?

    The supermarket loves wine and beer… and now it’s wine and beer ‘week’?

    I hate it myself. I like alcohol being available in supermarkets but I’d get rid of the shameless full-on exploitation of it to get people in the shop.

    And I hate the horrible accent of the voiceover used for the pak n save ads. I heard the dick say ‘it’s wine and beer week at pak n save’ before I could grab the remote and turn it off. You’d have to be a gormless turd to like those ads or any of 99.9% of ads ad for that matter.

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  127. Left Right and Centre (2,396 comments) says:

    cynical use of alcohol as a promotional tool. I wonder what that does to their metrics? Increase turnover? Profit?

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  128. Left Right and Centre (2,396 comments) says:

    Dennis Horne (793)
    March 20th, 2013 at 10:54 pm

    white people invaded their country and took possession of their land. Game over. Who cares what they think?

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  129. Dennis Horne (2,059 comments) says:

    @Left Right Out. Too much of a good thing is absolutely wonderful – Mae West?

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  130. Left Right and Centre (2,396 comments) says:

    Dennis Horne (794)
    March 20th, 2013 at 11:07 pm

    If that good thing is this generally brilliant country ruined only by the bottom 30% lower classes then yes.

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  131. Left Right and Centre (2,396 comments) says:

    Is there anything more pathetic looking than the Bunnings workers wearing their noddy arse green aprons?

    Makes them look like complete and utter hopeless twats. The poor wankers.

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  132. Manolo (12,636 comments) says:

    Another battle for the anti-American Messiah: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/82ea4e24-8fed-11e2-9239-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2O6IKsgRn

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  133. thedavincimode (6,129 comments) says:

    LRC

    I’m sure that the people who are required to wear those aprons whilst working for a living will be very appreciative of your empathy and insight and that your comments will only enhance their self-esteem.

    Is this the first in a series of comments critiquing corporate attire? It’s such a worthwhile topic; perhaps you should give it the prominence it deserves and set up your own web-site to host it. But be careful not to allow any tools to make gratuitously insulting remarks about people that haven’t done harm to anyone.

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